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lostlamb
10-31-2009, 02:30 AM
this news was just released at noon。

Mr Tsien is one of the most brilliant genius and patriots for china in the 20th century。He give china the foundation and key structure of modern rocketry and astronautics。

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some introduction from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen




Tsien Hsue-shen
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Tsien_Hsue-shen_%28Qian_Xue-Sen%29.jpg/120px-Tsien_Hsue-shen_%28Qian_Xue-Sen%29.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tsien_Hsue-shen_(Qian_Xue-Sen).jpg)

BornDecember 11, 1911(1911-12-11)
Hangzhou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou), China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
Died31 October 2009 (aged 97)
Beijing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing), China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
FieldsAeronautics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronautics)
InstitutionsCalifornia Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology)
Alma materShanghai Jiao Tong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Jiao_Tong_University)
California Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology)Doctoral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate)
advisorTheodore von Kármán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n)
Known forJet Propulsion Laboratory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Propulsion_Laboratory) (JPL)


Tsien Hsue-shen (simplified Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Chinese_characters): 钱学森; traditional Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters): 錢學森; pinyin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin): Qián Xuésēn) (11 December 1911 – 31 October 2009) is a scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist) who was a major figure in the missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile) and space programs of both the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and People's Republic of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China). NASA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA) documents commonly refer to him as H.S. Tsien.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-0)
During the 1940s Tsien was one of the founders of Jet Propulsion Laboratory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Propulsion_Laboratory)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-2008poy-1) at the California Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology). During the red scare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Red_Scare) of the 1950s the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) government accused Tsien of having communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist) sympathies. Tsien and his family were wrongfully imprisoned [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-2) in an isolated island off Los Angeles. Stripped of his security clearance, Tsien decided to go back to China. After being under house arrest for 5 years, from 1950-55, Tsien was released in exchange for the return of US pilots captured during the Korean war. Notified by U.S. authorities that he was free to go, Tsien immediately arranged to go back to China in September of 1955 on American President Lines, Pres. Cleveland via Hong Kong. He returned to China and led the Chinese rocket program, and became known as the "Father of Chinese Rocketry" (or "King of Rocketry").

Early life and education

Tsien Hsue-shen (pinyin: Qian Xuesen) was born in Hangzhou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou), the capital of Zhejiang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhejiang) province, 180 km southwest of Shanghai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai). He left Hangzhou at the age of three when his father obtained a post in the Ministry of Education in Beijing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing). He graduated from the Jiao Tong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiao_Tong_University) in 1934 and in August 1935 Tsien Hsue-shen left China on a Boxer Rebellion Indemnity Scholarship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion_Indemnity_Scholarship) to study at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology)

In 1936 Tsien Hsue-shen went to the California Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology) to commence graduate studies on the referral of Theodore von Kármán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n). Tsien obtained his doctorate in 1939 and would remain at Caltech for 20 years, ultimately becoming the Goddard Professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Goddard_Professor&action=edit&redlink=1) and establishing a reputation as one of the leading rocket scientists in the United States.
It was shortly after arriving at Caltech that Tsien was attracted to the rocketry ideas of Frank Malina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Malina) and a few other students of von Kármán, and their associates, including Jack Parsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Parsons). Around Caltech the dangerous and explosive nature of their work earned them the nickname "Suicide Squad."

Career in the United States

In 1943, Tsien and two others in the Caltech rocketry group drafted the first document to use the name Jet Propulsion Laboratory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Propulsion_Laboratory); it was a proposal to the Army to develop missiles in response to Germany's V-2 rocket. This led to the Private A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(missile)), which flew in 1944, and later the Corporal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-5_Corporal), the WAC Corporal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAC_Corporal), etc.
During the Second World War, he was amongst many scientists who participated in the "Manhattan Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project)".[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
After World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) he served under von Kármán as a consultant to the United States Army Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Force), and was eventually given the "assimilated rank of colonel". Von Kármán and Tsien were sent by the Army to Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) to investigate the progress of wartime aerodynamics research. Tsien investigated research facilities and interviewed German scientists such as Wernher von Braun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun) and Rudolph Hermann (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rudolph_Hermann&action=edit&redlink=1).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-3) Von Kármán wrote of Tsien, “At the age of 36, he was an undisputed genius whose work was providing an enormous impetus to advances in high-speed aerodynamics and jet propulsion.”[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-2008poy-1)
During this time, Colonel Tsien worked on a designing an intercontinental space plane [Tsien Space Plane 1949]. His work would inspire the X-20 Dyna-Soar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-20_Dyna-Soar) which would later be the inspiration for the Space Shuttle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle).

In 1947 Tsien Hsue-shen married Jiang Ying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Ying_(musician)) (蒋英), a famed opera singer and the daughter of Jiang Baili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiang_Baili) (蒋百里) - one of Chinese nationalist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang) leader Chiang Kai-shek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek)'s leading military strategists, and his Japanese wife.
Soon after Tsien applied for U.S. citizenship in 1950, allegations were made that he was a communist and his security clearance was revoked. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation) located a 1938 US Communist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Communist_Party) document with his name on it. Tsien found himself unable to pursue his career and within two weeks announced plans to return to China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China). After his announcement, the U.S. government imprisoned him in the isolated island off Long Beach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach,_California). Undersecretary of the Navy Dan Kimball tried to keep Tsien in the U.S. commenting "It was the stupidest thing this country ever did...he was no more a Communist than I was and we forced him to go."[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-4)
Tsien became the subject of five years of secret diplomacy and negotiation between the U.S. and China. During this time he lived under virtual house arrest. Tsien found himself in conflict with the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization_Service), including an arrest for carrying secret documents which ultimately turned out to be simple logarithmic tables. During his incarceration Tsien received support from his colleagues at Caltech including Caltech President Lee DuBridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_DuBridge), who flew to Washington to argue Tsien's case. Caltech appointed attorney Grant Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Cooper_(attorney)) to defend Tsien. Later, Cooper would say, "That the government permitted this genius, this scientific genius, to be sent to Communist China to pick his brains is one of the tragedies of this century."[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-5)

Return to China

In 1955 Tsien was released and deported from the United States together with his wife and their two American-born children as a part of post-Korean war negotiations to free American prisoners of war held by China. He went to work as head of the Chinese missile program immediately upon his arrival in China. Tsien deliberately left his research papers behind when he left the United States. Tsien joined the Communist Party of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China) in 1958.
Tsien established the Institute of Mechanics and began to retrain Chinese engineers in the techniques he had learned in the United States and retool the infrastructure of the Chinese program. Within a year Tsien submitted a proposal to the PRC government to establish a ballistic missile program. This proposal was accepted and Tsien was named the first director of the program in late 1956. By 1958 Tsien had finalized the plans of the Dongfeng missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_missile) which was first successfully launched in 1964 just prior to China's first successful nuclear weapons test. Tsien's program was also responsible for the development of the widespread Silkworm missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silkworm_missile). Tsien also contributed a lot to China's Higher Education. He was the first Chairman of the Department of Mechanics of University of Science & Technology of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Science_%26_Technology_of_China) (USTC), a new type of university established by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Academy_of_Sciences) (CAS) after the founding of PRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRC) and aimed at fostering high-level personnel of science and technology necessary for the development of the national economy, national defense construction, and education in science and technology.
In 1979 Tsien was awarded Caltech's Distinguished Alumni Award. In the early 1990s the filing cabinets containing Tsien's research work were offered to him by Caltech. At first Tsien refused but was finally convinced by his former colleagues to accept the work. Most of these works became the foundation for the Tsien Library at Xi'an Jiaotong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Jiaotong_University) while the rest went to the Institute of Mechanics. Tsien eventually received his award from Caltech, and with the help of his friend Frank Marble brought it to his home in a widely-covered ceremony. Tsien was also invited to visit the US after the normalization of Sino-US relationship. But he refused the invitation because the US government only offered a compensation without apology for his detainment.
Tsien retired in 1991 and has maintained a low public profile in Beijing, China.
The PRC government launched its manned space program in 1992 and used Tsien's research as the basis for the Long March rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_rocket) which successfully launched the Shenzhou V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_V) mission in October 2003. The elderly Tsien was able to watch China's first manned space mission on television from his hospital bed.
Science fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction) author Arthur C. Clarke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke), in his novel 2010: Odyssey Two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010:_Odyssey_Two), named a Chinese spaceship after him.

Late life

In his later years, since the 1980s, Tsien advocated scientific investigation of traditional Chinese medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine), Qigong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong) and "special human body functions". Some people claim that Tsien actually did not spend his effort on Qigong, but that he just expressed that people should consider the widely spread and practiced Qigong in a scientific manner.
In 2008, he was named Aviation Week and Space Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_Week_and_Space_Technology) Person of the Year. This selection is not intended as an honour but is given to the person judged to have the greatest impact on aviation in the past year.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-6)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-2008poy-1)
In 2008, China Central Television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Central_Television) named Tsien as one of the eleven most inspiring people in China.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsien_Hsue-shen#cite_note-7)

Solvent
10-31-2009, 02:34 AM
Rest in Peace

domokun
10-31-2009, 02:41 AM
Rest In Peace.

plato
10-31-2009, 04:11 AM
Tsien Hsue-shen, once a colonel in the US Army, was a victim of McCarthyism. McCarthy's fight against communism actually helped the communists. If anything McCarthy should have been locked up for being a true communist sympathizer.

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
10-31-2009, 08:17 AM
Tsien Hsue-shen, once a colonel in the US Army, was a victim of McCarthyism. McCarthy's fight against communism actually helped the communists. If anything McCarthy should have been locked up for being a true communist sympathizer.

Listen you troll, this post is a tribute to Qian Xuesen.

NOT A SOAPBOX FOR YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS.

RIP to one of the most brilliant physicist of the 20th century.

plato
10-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Listen you troll, this post is a tribute to Qian Xuesen.

NOT A SOAPBOX FOR YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS.

RIP to one of the most brilliant physicist of the 20th century.

LISTEN UP! If anything, you are the one who is starting a troll!

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
10-31-2009, 08:26 AM
LISTEN UP! If anything, you are the one who is starting a troll!

Wow, your engrish made sense...I did start a troll, you.

And RIP to Qian Xuesen.

plato
10-31-2009, 08:27 AM
Wow, your engrish made sense...I did start a troll, you.

And RIP to Qian Xuesen.

How did I start a troll?

I see post #5 as the 1st troll in this thread. Because you know I won't let bogus accusation go without challenged?

plato
10-31-2009, 08:28 AM
Tsien Hsue-shen, once a colonel in the US Army, was a victim of McCarthyism. McCarthy's fight against communism actually helped the communists. If anything McCarthy should have been locked up for being a true communist sympathizer.


Listen you troll, this post is a tribute to Qian Xuesen.

NOT A SOAPBOX FOR YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS.

RIP to one of the most brilliant physicist of the 20th century.

Which part of my original post is a troll?

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
10-31-2009, 08:38 AM
How did I start a troll?

I see post #5 as the 1st troll in this thread.

Your original post, #4, had nothing to do with paying respect to Qian Xuesen. You still have not.

All it did was taking another stab at your favourite pet hate, communism and the Chinese government and communist party.

People here dont post up stories of people who just died and have others leaving little snippets about the price of eggs in China. Why dont you post up on the threads about Iraq/Afghan war dead and leave a post about the merits of the war or the homeless problem in the USA?

Rest in peace Qian Xuesen, I am sorry to have ruined your tribute thread by replying to this troll Plato.:-(

plato
10-31-2009, 08:39 AM
Your original post, #4, had nothing to do with paying respect to Qian Xuesen. You still have not.

All it did was taking another stab at your favourite pet hate, communism and the Chinese government and communist party.

People here dont post up stories of people who just died and have others leaving little snippets about the price of eggs in China. Why dont you post up on the threads about Iraq/Afghan war dead and leave a post about the merits of the war or the homeless problem in the USA?

Rest in peace Qian Xuesen, I am sorry to have ruined your tribute thread by replying to this troll Plato.:-(

Whatever you say! You should be sorry! You should stop as well!

Read it again for your double enjoyment, and try to explain why this is a troll, again:

Tsien Hsue-shen, once a colonel in the US Army, was a victim of McCarthyism. McCarthy's fight against communism actually helped the communists. If anything McCarthy should have been locked up for being a true communist sympathizer.

Ordie
10-31-2009, 10:45 AM
Rest in peace

One of our biggest mistake is deporting him to China over the objections of our military establishment.

TheMiddlePath
10-31-2009, 11:22 AM
And the cox report and the imprisonment of Wen Ho Lee is a repeat of what happened to Qián Xuésēn.

lostlamb
10-31-2009, 12:23 PM
Mr Tsien is not only a brilliant scientist,but also a great team leader and project organizer ,just like Dr. Von Braun to NASA。

Ordie
10-31-2009, 02:46 PM
And the cox report and the imprisonment of Wen Ho Lee is a repeat of what happened to Qián Xuésēn.

Wen Ho Lee wasn't deported.

Ordie
10-31-2009, 02:54 PM
Mr Tsien is not only a brilliant scientist,but also a great team leader and project organizer ,just like Dr. Von Braun to NASA。

No offense here, but the man's paper on argricultural production led Mao to cause Chinas greatest famine.

Tsien's is the brainchild of the Silkworm missile now being pointed at the US Fleet in the Persian Gulf by the Iranians.

plato
10-31-2009, 05:23 PM
No offense here, but the man's paper on argricultural production led Mao to cause Chinas greatest famine.

Tsien's is the brainchild of the Silkworm missile now being pointed at the US Fleet in the Persian Gulf by the Iranians.

Tsien could have been forced by Mao, or Mao simply made up a paper and asked Tsien to say it was his paper.

Either way, US owe him an apology

lostlamb
10-31-2009, 09:11 PM
No offense here, but the man's paper on argricultural production led Mao to cause Chinas greatest famine.

Tsien's is the brainchild of the Silkworm missile now being pointed at the US Fleet in the Persian Gulf by the Iranians.

I believe he wrote that article under political pressure。

I don't know if you have read that article。in fact his words are very canny,that‘s his resist to political power。

in his article,he didn’t say the super agriculture production is ture,he used “according to report”。he said if solar energy can be entirely utilized by plants, super agriculture production may come ture。

in his conclusion,he said if we have necessary conditions and efforts,we can have more and more agriculture production。we don't have necessary conditions today,but we may make it tomorrow。

LineDoggie
10-31-2009, 09:21 PM
Umm, he was traded in 1955 for USAF pilots captured during the Korean War?

Didnt that end 2 years before? so the PRC was holding POW's 2 years later in Violation of the Armistice they signed?

or Wiki is wrong again?

CS1.6
10-31-2009, 10:23 PM
Rip, i respect Mr.Qian very much.


Umm, he was traded in 1955 for USAF pilots captured during the Korean War?

Didnt that end 2 years before? so the PRC was holding POW's 2 years later in Violation of the Armistice they signed?

or Wiki is wrong again?

the pilots were not captured in the Korean War.

they were captured in China, some of them were captured in Nov. 29th, 1952, because of invading China's territorial air space by C-47. Some of them are the American expatriates lived in China and doing special agent work for US gov.

TheMiddlePath
11-01-2009, 12:22 AM
Coming to a theater near you.....

Revenge of the Rocketman.

manberries
11-01-2009, 12:42 AM
While it is entirely wrong to state that an entire government should apologize to a single man because he was caught in the middle of war that expanded farther and wider than WW2, he is dead and such argument is now irrelevant. On a side note, before you attack McCarther take a look at the declassified KGB notes regarding him and his claims.

RIP to the man as a man. Not because he was a scientist, not because he was smart, not because he was "forced" from America, and in liu that he helped people considered the USA's enemy. He was a man with family and dream that didn't include hurting others, therefore his death is a shame for all. I wonder what his answer would be to the question if he felt time was wasted on military designs when he truly desired to design spacecraft.

plato
11-01-2009, 12:43 AM
Coming to a theater near you.....

Revenge of the Rocketman.


There is no need for this. The "rocketman" has many American friends, and many of them fought for him. "rocketman"s son got his master degree here in US at MIT.

plato
11-01-2009, 12:54 AM
While it is entirely wrong to state that an entire government should apologize to a single man because he was caught in the middle of war that expanded farther and wider than WW2, he is dead and such argument is now irrelevant. On a side note, before you attack McCarther take a look at the declassified KGB notes regarding him and his claims.

RIP to the man as a man. Not because he was a scientist, not because he was smart, not because he was "forced" from America, and in liu that he helped people considered the USA's enemy. He was a man with family and dream that didn't include hurting others, therefore his death is a shame for all. I wonder what his answer would be to the question if he felt time was wasted on military designs when he truly desired to design spacecraft.

I wish McCarthy was as careful as you before he attacked the others. I looked at KGB's notes, and I will still attack him, because what he did was UN-AMERICAN, and did more harm than good to our country.

It is NEVER wrong for a government to apologize for something that they did wrong. NEVER!

manberries
11-01-2009, 12:59 AM
Well, let me spell it out. The KGB documents from 1955 showed each person McCarthy called out was on their payroll or information gathering source list. Every single one. This includes Mr. Hsue-shen. He was right, and your just attacking a man who did something CORRECT in our country. That is to get rid of members in our government bent on seeing everything that is American go out the window. It was a war, things had to be done. Communism is directly opposed to our constitution and the writings of EVERY founding father. Don't dare to tell me what is Un-American. Perhaps you should take the time to question your teachers when they tell you this crap. The real shame is that he was not born in our times where he would of been a welcome member of NASA or other such agencies.

plato
11-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Well, let me spell it out. The KGB documents from 1955 showed each person McCarthy called out was on their payroll or information gathering source list. Every single one. This includes Mr. Hsue-shen. He was right, and your just attacking a man who did something CORRECT in our country. That is to get rid of members in our government bent on seeing everything that is American go out the window. It was a war, things had to be done. Communism is directly opposed to our constitution and the writings of EVERY founding father. Don't dare to tell me what is Un-American. Perhaps you should take the time to question your teachers when they tell you this crap. The real shame is that he was not born in our times where he would of been a welcome member of NASA or other such agencies.


You said it, and you should show the KGB notes. fair?

I do dare to tell you what is Un-American, and I just did.

Only if my teachers cared to tell us this crap. My history teacher put the question : "why was slavery good for the slaves?" on the exam.

manberries
11-01-2009, 01:03 AM
It is open domain, find them yourself. Demanding source citing on an open forum like this is nothing but a stall tactic. Ask any journalist or historian in the US that has anything above a Bachelors degree and they will know it from memory. I don't need to cite that the Romans existed, neither do I need to cite this. Off topic, you really should give a read through those unclassified KGB documents anyway. Some crazy stuff regarding psychic warfare and using ghosts as spies (research for that stuff I mean).

Solvent
11-01-2009, 01:04 AM
The real shame is that he was not born in our times where he would of been a welcome member of NASA or other such agencies.

Doesn't make any sense at all. So are you saying all the victims of the wrong policy should be shame of themselves that they couldn't be able to choose when to born instead?

plato
11-01-2009, 01:05 AM
It is open domain, find them yourself. Demanding source citing on an open forum like this is nothing but a stall tactic. Ask any journalist or historian in the US that has anything above a Bachelors degree and they will know it from memory. I don't need to cite that the Romans existed, neither do I need to cite this. Off topic, you really should give a read through those unclassified KGB documents anyway. Some crazy stuff regarding psychic warfare and using ghosts as spies (research for that stuff I mean).

LOL! You can't back it up, just like what McCarthy did. No wonder you support the guy, you practice it.

manberries
11-01-2009, 01:06 AM
Doesn't make any sense at all. So are you saying all the victims of the wrong policy should be shame of themselves that they couldn't be able to choose when to born instead?

No, not a shame on him a shame for us. He probably didn't feel any shame.

manberries
11-01-2009, 01:06 AM
LOL! You can't back it up, just like what McCarthy did. No wonder you support the guy, you practice it.

Well, when you figure out what open domain is you try to argue. Perhaps you should study a bit of the writer you so incorrectly name yourself after.

plato
11-01-2009, 01:07 AM
Make a bogus accusation, and then go run and hide. Kinda similar to post #5 in this thread.

plato
11-01-2009, 01:08 AM
Well, when you figure out what open domain is you try to argue. Perhaps you should study a bit of the writer you so incorrectly name yourself after.

You called the guy out, you back it up. simple!

manberries
11-01-2009, 01:08 AM
Here, just a tad bit of help for you. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=KGB+documents+McCarthyism
Pay special note to the book written by an ex KGB operative.

You learn history, so we don't need to cite every little thing. Simple. Make it to college and come back.

plato
11-01-2009, 01:12 AM
Here, just a tad bit of help for you. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=KGB+documents+McCarthyism
Pay special note to the book written by an ex KGB operative.

You learn history, so we don't need to cite every little thing. Simple. Make it to college and come back.

dude! just back up your claim. That is all. No need to play games

acosta
11-01-2009, 01:41 AM
rest in peace.

he's pretty open to all argument, whether of science history, or of political history, with his unbendable scientific spirits over his long life.

he has been valuable assets of u.s science, academics, as well as u.s. military, and later more valuable assets of chinese science, academics, military.

his choice was not made by himself, but a mix of cold war, mcCarthyism, family argument.

and he is an decent and honorable man.

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
11-01-2009, 05:38 AM
Make a bogus accusation, and then go run and hide. Kinda similar to post #5 in this thread.

Apologies to the late Dr. Qian Xuesen, I am once again forced to reply to this flake called Plato.

Plato: I see you still havent gotten over it. I am not running or hiding just really cant be bothered to reply to a dunderhead and showpony like you, but since you called me out...

Why dont you try to leave McCarthyism, the CCP, etc out of it and just type 3 simple letters...R.I.P. to a great physicist and rocket scientist? Its really easy.

And let me say again, I still havent seen you pay your respect to Dr. Qian Xuesen in ANY of your posts.

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
11-01-2009, 05:46 AM
rest in peace.

he's pretty open to all argument, whether of science history, or of political history, with his unbendable scientific spirits over his long life.

he has been valuable assets of u.s science, academics, as well as u.s. military, and later more valuable assets of chinese science, academics, military.

his choice was not made by himself, but a mix of cold war, mcCarthyism, family argument.

and he is an decent and honorable man.

x2, RIP to a decent and honorable man.

plato
11-01-2009, 06:22 AM
Apologies to the late Dr. Qian Xuesen, I am once again forced to reply to this flake called Plato.

Plato: I see you still havent gotten over it. I am not running or hiding just really cant be bothered to reply to a dunderhead and showpony like you, but since you called me out...

Why dont you try to leave McCarthyism, the CCP, etc out of it and just type 3 simple letters...R.I.P. to a great physicist and rocket scientist? Its really easy.

And let me say again, I still havent seen you pay your respect to Dr. Qian Xuesen in ANY of your posts.
I was replying to someone else. You are the one who should get over it. You should be sorry, again!

Keep looking...

I have nothing against Tsien, but for you to come here and demand someone to pay respect to him post after post is simply ridiculous!

Did you see me disrespecting Tsien?

Hongjian
11-01-2009, 10:38 AM
IIRC there was a comment by an US Admiral about Qian Xuesen being worth five full Divisions and that it's a mistake to let him go to China.
And when he returned to China, Mao stated that rather he was worth five full Army-Groups.

Anyway. His contributions to China are maybe among the most important things in the last century, beside Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms and Guo Longping's development of the hybrid rice.

epc
11-01-2009, 12:11 PM
And let me say again, I still havent seen you pay your respect to Dr. Qian Xuesen in ANY of your posts.

if someone doesn't want to do something, it's his bloody right not to do so.

I for one have no wish to pay respect to qian.

Solvent
11-01-2009, 02:10 PM
if someone doesn't want to do something, it's his bloody right not to do so.

I for one have no wish to pay respect to qian.

You don't have to put yourself on other people's shoes. He was talking to Plato. And it's Plato's right to make decision.

This is a thread to pay tribute to a well-known scientist. If you get nothing nice to say, really, you don't have to say anything.

Super Sheep
11-01-2009, 08:20 PM
To all you bickering fools.... let me as you this. This man, Tsien Hsue-shen, whatever you agree with him or not, respect his work or not..... still has and will received his acknowledge of his accomplishments, in media, on the internet, and here and where ever.

Will anyone of you, when you die, receive this kind of acknowledgment? Or even perhaps a thread on here?

I find it offensive that some of you would try and try to make this thread about your own selves, and try to steal this thread and make this a circus about yourselves. *cough* plato *cough*

plato
11-01-2009, 08:41 PM
To all you bickering fools.... let me as you this. This man, Tsien Hsue-shen, whatever you agree with him or not, respect his work or not..... still has and will received his acknowledge of his accomplishments, in media, on the internet, and here and where ever.

Will anyone of you, when you die, receive this kind of acknowledgment? Or even perhaps a thread on here?

I find it offensive that some of you would try and try to make this thread about your own selves, and try to steal this thread and make this a circus about yourselves. *cough* plato *cough*

Swine flu?

I agree Tsien has achieved quite a lot. As far as stealing the thread is concerned. Like I said I won't let bogus accusation go unchallenged. Those who made bogus accusations are stealing the thread, not me. I don't need to cough, you are one of them. And yes, please stop using Mr. Tsien as an excuse for all your bogus accusations. Leave him alone.

Karaahmetoglu
11-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Rest In Peace.

epc
11-02-2009, 01:04 AM
As someone whose family is under the aim of Chinese ballistic missiles developed by qian, my perspective on the period of his life in china is very different from many people's here.

Solvent
11-02-2009, 01:49 AM
As someone whose family is under the aim of Chinese ballistic missiles developed by qian, my perspective on the period of his life in china is very different from many people's here.

As what you pointed out, he helped to develop missiles, but he didn't aim them to your family. If one day, somebody points a gun at you, which one you should hate. The gun inventor or gun holder?

Your real problem is with the politics. If you feel you have to address the threat that your family is facing, you can just go open a new thread. I think lots of people will be happy to join you.

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
11-02-2009, 04:26 AM
I was replying to someone else. You are the one who should get over it. You should be sorry, again!

Keep looking...

I have nothing against Tsien, but for you to come here and demand someone to pay respect to him post after post is simply ridiculous!

Did you see me disrespecting Tsien?

See private message.

plato
11-02-2009, 05:49 AM
See private message.

no, i deleted it without looking at it. sorry!

Jaegermeister + Red Bull
11-02-2009, 07:50 AM
no, i deleted it without looking at it. sorry!

Well at least you are staying true to form. Too bad.

acosta
11-02-2009, 09:13 AM
As someone whose family is under the aim of Chinese ballistic missiles developed by qian, my perspective on the period of his life in china is very different from many people's here.

oh, no, let's not turn it into another "i hate nobel" thread. wat, are you five?

epc
11-02-2009, 03:46 PM
Don't be silly. Dynamite and guns in the current scheme of things are in quite a different league from ballistic missiles.

I don't hate him. But I am not filled with sadness about his death.

I brought up my perspective just so you guys know that not everyone sees things with the same view.

Lastly, I think it's entirely appropriate to discuss some guy's legacy in terms of its effect on others. If we can only post "RIP" in a thread about someone's death, then that's fairly stupid. And if it must be that way, then at least make it a forum rule: "Do Not type anything other than RIP in a thread about someone's death."

Solvent
11-02-2009, 04:50 PM
Don't be silly. Dynamite and guns in the current scheme of things are in quite a different league from ballistic missiles.

I don't hate him. But I am not filled with sadness about his death.

I brought up my perspective just so you guys know that not everyone sees things with the same view.

Lastly, I think it's entirely appropriate to discuss some guy's legacy in terms of its effect on others. If we can only post "RIP" in a thread about someone's death, then that's fairly stupid. And if it must be that way, then at least make it a forum rule: "Do Not type anything other than RIP in a thread about someone's death."

Nobody said guns are same with ballistic missiles. I Just gave you an example to help you understand the logic. If you still can't get it, no one can help.

Still remember how you brought up your issue? Do you feel comfortable in other people's shoes?

There are many RIP threads, and I don't think they are stupid. If you get problem with that, talk to Mods.

epc
11-03-2009, 12:07 PM
Nobody said guns are same with ballistic missiles. I Just gave you an example to help you understand the logic. If you still can't get it, no one can help.

Still remember how you brought up your issue? Do you feel comfortable in other people's shoes?

There are many RIP threads, and I don't think they are stupid. If you get problem with that, talk to Mods.

Let's go by your logic:

If a scientist developed a vaccine for a wide-spread disease while in the US, then for some reason left the US to go back to his homeland, where he then developed a world-class biological weapons program. If you are in a location / state that is threatened by the biological weapons of this state, how will you feel about this scientist's various achievements?

I have 0 problem for a RIP thread. I said, I think it's stupid that in a RIP thread only RIP can be said, and no other discussion about the deceased's legacy. This is what some of you are basically saying here in this thread. And as far as I know, Mods have set no such rule that only RIP can be said in a RIP thread.

matthew.manhorn
11-03-2009, 12:11 PM
RIP, Dr. Tsien

epc
11-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Still remember how you brought up your issue? Do you feel comfortable in other people's shoes?



Like I said, I have a different perspective for Qian. The spat between Jagermeister and Plato caused me to want to state that there are people who aren't filled with sadness with Qian's passing, and I stated my reasons clearly and civilly. I wasn't speaking for Plato and I have no idea about his views. And I don't see how I was in anyone's shoes. I was speaking entirely for myself and about myself.

Solvent
11-03-2009, 12:19 PM
Let's go by your logic:

If a scientist developed a vaccine for a wide-spread disease while in the US, then for some reason left the US to go back to his homeland, where he then developed a world-class biological weapons program. If you are in a location / state that is threatened by the biological weapons of this state, how will you feel about this scientist's various achievements?

I have 0 problem for a RIP thread. I said, I think it's stupid that in a RIP thread only RIP can be said, and no other discussion about the deceased's legacy. This is what some of you are basically saying here in this thread. And as far as I know, Mods have set no such rule that only RIP can be said in a RIP thread.

I think you watched too much movies about crazy scientists try to destroy the world. And if the scientist can make decision to aim the weapon at your family, you may hate him. But if he is not the one to do so, you probably hate wrong person.

Of course, you don't have to say anything. It's just common courtesy to do so as a person with proper education. And as for rule here, you can try your luck to say something "funny" in other RIP thread, see what will happen.

Solvent
11-03-2009, 12:21 PM
Like I said, I have a different perspective for Qian. The spat between Jagermeister and Plato caused me to want to state that there are people who aren't filled with sadness with Qian's passing, and I stated my reasons clearly and civilly. I wasn't speaking for Plato and I have no idea about his views. And I don't see how I was in anyone's shoes. I was speaking entirely for myself and about myself.

So if you didn't know what they were talking about, why you were eager to jump in other people's shoe?

Or you can say you accidentally fell in. That would make a little more sense to me.