Terrorists slice off 14-year-old's nose, ears and tongue

[seruriermarshal]

Terrorists slice off 14-year-old's nose, ears and tongue
July 12, 2004

Page Tools
Email to a friend Printer format Suspected Muslim guerillas sliced off the nose, ears and tongue of a 14-year-old girl in Indian Kashmir today, believing her to be an informer for the Indian army, police said.

Mariam Begum was abducted by a group of militants from her house in Doda district south of Srinagar, Kashmir's summer capital.

"The abductee was let off by the terrorists. However her ears, nose and tongue have been chopped off," a police spokesman said in Srinigar.

Rebels have in the past killed or maimed people who they believe are helping Indian soldiers put down the 15-year revolt in the Himalayan region.

Elsewhere in Kashmir, 16 Muslim rebels and four soldiers were killed in separate gun battles over the weekend as rebel violence mounted despite peace moves by India and Pakistan.

More than 100 people have been killed and scores wounded this month alone.

Authorities say the violence could be aimed at disrupting talks between India and Pakistan who agreed last month to serious and sustained negotiations for a final settlement of their dispute in Kashmir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/12/1089484266910.html?from=top5&oneclick=true)

[cut]

That's funny I've never seen you post anything about ayodyah or the hindu pogroms in 2002. why do you suddenly take intrest in India now?

Oh yes, so that you can continue your quasi racist plight against muslims..

I'm not condoning this in anyway but why do you have to focus on what muslim terrorists do? I supposed it escaped your gaze that a Tamil (Hindu not muslim) suicide bomber blew himself up in a police station in colombo, jeopardizing the 2 year old ceasefire?

stop being so biased if you are going to post articles such as these.

[seruriermarshal]

That's funny I've never seen you post anything about ayodyah or the hindu pogroms in 2002. why do you suddenly take intrest in India now?

Oh yes, so that you can continue your quasi racist plight against muslims..

I'm not condoning this in anyway but why do you have to focus on what muslim terrorists do? I supposed it escaped your gaze that a Tamil (Hindu not muslim) suicide bomber blew himself up in a police station in colombo, jeopardizing the 2 year old ceasefire?

stop being so biased if you are going to post articles such as these.

These terrorist must thank you. Seems like you to think this matter is
normal? You thought the support terrorism is legitimate ? I send simple fact , do you understand ?

[cut]

That's funny I've never seen you post anything about ayodyah or the hindu pogroms in 2002. why do you suddenly take intrest in India now?

Oh yes, so that you can continue your quasi racist plight against muslims..

I'm not condoning this in anyway but why do you have to focus on what muslim terrorists do? I supposed it escaped your gaze that a Tamil (Hindu not muslim) suicide bomber blew himself up in a police station in colombo, jeopardizing the 2 year old ceasefire?

stop being so biased if you are going to post articles such as these.

These terrorist must thank you. Seems like you to think this matter is
normal? You thought the support terrorism is legitimate ? I send simple fact , do you understand ?

it is the picking and choosing of your "simple facts" that bothers me.

[seruriermarshal]

That's funny I've never seen you post anything about ayodyah or the hindu pogroms in 2002. why do you suddenly take intrest in India now?

Oh yes, so that you can continue your quasi racist plight against muslims..

I'm not condoning this in anyway but why do you have to focus on what muslim terrorists do? I supposed it escaped your gaze that a Tamil (Hindu not muslim) suicide bomber blew himself up in a police station in colombo, jeopardizing the 2 year old ceasefire?

stop being so biased if you are going to post articles such as these.

These terrorist must thank you. Seems like you to think this matter is
normal? You thought the support terrorism is legitimate ? I send simple fact , do you understand ?

it is the picking and choosing of your "simple facts" that bothers me.

I only knew that is a fact ! It don't change !

[ronin2172]

cut y do u even bother?

[cut]

cut y do u even bother?

good point..

[seruriermarshal]

CUT , you hate these fact ? Because they really existence ?

[ronin2172]

again u miss the point...completely :cantbeli: he has no problems with the facts in the story...he is saying that muslims r not the only ones guilty of these acts....and points out that u only focus on muslim acts of violence and ignore all other acts of violence commited by non-muslims....

[sgt.pepper]

and who is beheading innocent peoples? and who is blowing themselves up?islam itself is not cruel and bloody religion but has been dominated by primitive middle-age individuals who have profaned their own religion.

[seruriermarshal]

His meaning is this kind of fact is immaterial? Why this news and does
the racism have the relations? If I don't send this message , then this event won't exist ? If I send this message , then I'm a racist ?

[sgt.pepper]

Yep you are right

[Pooga]

Serieur, don't worry about it. He just wants you to post fair and balanced posts of people maiming little kids. He thinks you're only focusing on Muslims doing these things. But in reality, we all do these things.

[sgt.pepper]

because that is human nature sometimes wild animal nature.

[ShadowNeo]

There was a program on not that long ago, which was documenting the situation in Kashmir, which saw Indian forces dragging anyone they wanted off the streets and beat them, even putting on a fake "terrorist house storming" when in fact they had brought two dead terrorists into a house, riddled them with some more bullets and completely trashed the house to make it look like one.

The house happened to be owned by an honest, Muslim businessman and his family.

As previously said, both sides have done stupid and horrible things, try not to focus on one of them.

[mocking_loudly_died]

That **** is just f*cked up.

[BlackRain]

That is nothing compared to what happens daily in Africa. I can tell you some interesting stories.

[Tane Angle]

Perhaps we should just post the activities of the group cut mentioned then. To be fair. Then again, not many people pay attention to Colombia either. Or who's keeping track of the growing number of wars over water supplies (a major threat now that will only increase in the coming decades).


You thought the support terrorism is legitimate ?
No, cut doesn't seem to at all. If anything, he's condemning all terrorism, not just terrorism involving Muslims. I do not say Islamic terrorism because a lot of it has little to do with religion and much to do with economics. Marx was at least a little bit right on the battle between the rich and the poor. I've seen it several times in the Middle East, in Lebanon most of all. Let me say that again; explaining these things away "because they're Muslim" is naive and can get people killed when leaders do it (they have in the past). Religions are conduits and catalysts for violence sometimes, but the economic, educational, water, and other causes are at least as important.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Flagg]

Or who's keeping track of the growing number of wars over water supplies (a major threat now that will only increase in the coming decades).

Mental note.....must buy shares in desalination plant manufacturers p-)

[Tane Angle]

Flagg, I've wondered about the ethics of buying stock in something like that. Everything I know from work leads me to believe that that stock will do great, but is that ethical since I learned that at work? ;)

By the way, photovoltaic cells, particularly the PV manufacturers owned by the large energy companies like BP, will probably do well if we ever start subsidizing them. Might be able to buy stock in the BP subsidiary itself, who knows. ;)

Have a good one bud, and just some thoughts(that is, don't be the farm on my stock advice, as I am no stock broker p-) )...

[usa320]

That **** is ****ed up. ****ed up beyond all recognition.

Whats even more ****ed up is that some **** ups here try to justify such acts of terror.

[EvanL]

That **** is f*** up. f*** up beyond all recognition.

Whats even more f*** up is that some f*** ups here try to justify such acts of terror.
Who the **** has triedto justify this?
I wouldnt say its an act of terror. More or less an act against human rights.
DOnt jump the gun so quickly there little mr security advisor. ;)

[Flagg]

Flagg, I've wondered about the ethics of buying stock in something like that. Everything I know from work leads me to believe that that stock will do great, but is that ethical since I learned that at work?

I'd say it's completely ethical Tane.

It's not like buying/shorting shares with the inside knowledge of soon to follow positive/negative announcements.

It's a medium to long term catastrophic trend in the public domain with no viable solution other than desalination since it's not just a question of sharing existing capacity...but one of quality and quantity as well.

If it were a short-term and immediate crisis....I'd say it would be questionable based on being in the loop.

But otherwise......it's a free world and we're all just squirrels trying to find some nuts

[StealthMode]

Islam is a global plaque.

If Muslims are not following Islam to its intended degree, then your not being a true follower.

Being a true follower means changing the world and fighting everyone to do it (simply put).

Being a peaceful muslim means that you arent following exactly what it tells you to do.

Maybe some people want to live their life for reasons based in reality, like a family and love and goals and have religon as a complement, not its utter dominating existence.

Read other posts. Lots of supporting evidence about why it is not only extreme Islam that is a problem, it is the actual religon itself.

[ROY H]

Stop arguing and debating what is "rasict" and have some respect for this young lady , who's live is for forever changed. There are radicals in everything but some individuals take it to another level and we are seeing this time after time.

[Mark Sman]

The Tamil Tigers (LTTE whatever) are indeed hideous murderors, but I believe there fight is secular.

While most (not all) Tamils are indeed hindu, the crux of their movement goes around politics and not religion. Most of their victims are Sinhalese buddhists. A sprinkling of muslims, and chrisitians round out both sides.

And the numbers are staggering. 60,000 over 20 years killed by LTTE is a common estimate. They employ suicide bombing, artillery attacks, bombs and hand-weapons.

The Tamil population has also been the victim of violence in lesser proportion.

A tenous sort of half-ceasefire had existed since late 2001/ early 2002. That all folded up with a kill-crazy rampage on July 7th.

They want a seperatist state, and ain't gonna get it. Last out said the LTTE was between a rock and a hard place. So their tactics may become even more desperate and brutal.

Not the only terrorists on the planet with Hindu roots either. And some of the other ones are definitely involved in religous based warfare.

All the Hindus I know are fairly happy-go-lucky, but every society has its evil humans.

Kashmir is a whole other freaking mess. Its is just vaguely possible that some sort of agreement could be reached over Kashmir, the glacier and the rest.

The LTTE thing is going to drag on a thousand years.

I've said it before, people will blame this power or that power for what is going on, used to go on, will go on in the Mid-East or other shatter-belt areas.

If we built a 30 mile high wall around it, and left it alone for a thousand years, when we peeked over the edge they would still be fighting.

[seruriermarshal]

I wouldnt say its an act of terror


:bash:

[sgt.pepper]

black rain you are right.Do you guys realize what is going in the africa and who cares about them, africans are worthless for the G8 countries they have no oil ,money highly skilled IT workers there is nothing to invest in.Hundreds of people dying everyday in the africa and who cares?

[seruriermarshal]

black rain you are right.Do you guys realize what is going in the africa and who cares about them, africans are worthless for the G8 countries they have no oil ,money highly skilled IT workers there is nothing to invest in.Hundreds of people dying everyday in the africa and who cares?

My friend , I still remember Somalia .

And here has another example :
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19267

[sgt.pepper]

Yep can't count'em do you remember Rwanda-Burundi tribal war one milion people were slaugtered there,in this time usa and europe were dealing with yugoslavian war.

[seruriermarshal]

Yep can't count'em do you remember Rwanda-Burundi tribal war one milion people were slaugtered there,in this time usa and europe were dealing with yugoslavian war.

I think , that because U.S. and Europe are allies , yugoslavian in Europe , that's important .

[sgt.pepper]

and who was supported by them bosnian moslems

[seruriermarshal]

and who was supported by them bosnian moslems

So I don't think , we are racist . But sad , Arab world doesn't take these fact .

[sgt.pepper]

regarding racist do you know that arabs had their own colonies in the africa and they were dealing with the slavery, arabs are not better than europe nations arabs has left bloody stain in the africa -Sudan is very good example

[seruriermarshal]

regarding racist do you know that arabs had their own colonies in the africa and they were dealing with the slavery, arabs are not better than europe nations arabs has left bloody stain in the africa -Sudan is very good example

Thank you , you are right .

[EvanL]

I wouldnt say its an act of terror


:bash:
Can u even retort with anything worthwhile? Instead of an emoticon to prove why you disagree with what ive said?
And learn to speak english FFS. Its like u use babbelfish to translate.

[ArmedPacifist]

I wouldnt say its an act of terror


:bash:
Can u even retort with anything worthwhile? Instead of an emoticon to prove why you disagree with what ive said?
And learn to speak english FFS. Its like u use babbelfish to translate.


I with this statement of other opinion that is false

[EvanL]

I wouldnt say its an act of terror


:bash:
Can u even retort with anything worthwhile? Instead of an emoticon to prove why you disagree with what ive said?
And learn to speak english FFS. Its like u use babbelfish to translate.


I with this statement of other opinion that is false
All of your bases is belong to us.

[brigadeotg]

There was a program on not that long ago, which was documenting the situation in Kashmir, which saw Indian forces dragging anyone they wanted off the streets and beat them, even putting on a fake "terrorist house storming" when in fact they had brought two dead terrorists into a house, riddled them with some more bullets and completely trashed the house to make it look like one.

The house happened to be owned by an honest, Muslim businessman and his family.

As previously said, both sides have done stupid and horrible things, try not to focus on one of them.

Yeah and I am pretty sure it was made by the BBC(Bulls**t Broadcoasting Corporation). And would you be kind enough to point out that video? If you cannot, then just shut up.. Making irresponsible statements about some video about some honest Muslim businessman seems to be the favourite British hobby. And I take it that you were there documenting the 'evidence' when they brought the dead terrorists into the house. :roll: Dude, if you can do some objective research please present the facts, if not go do what you do best. Preach moralistic crap to anyone who will listen to u...

[chauncy republicans]

Islam is a global plaque.

If Muslims are not following Islam to its intended degree, then your not being a true follower.

Being a true follower means changing the world and fighting everyone to do it (simply put).

Being a peaceful muslim means that you arent following exactly what it tells you to do.

Maybe some people want to live their life for reasons based in reality, like a family and love and goals and have religon as a complement, not its utter dominating existence.

Read other posts. Lots of supporting evidence about why it is not only extreme Islam that is a problem, it is the actual religon itself.
You are an ignorant **** that knows nothing about Islam, so please....SHUT THE **** UP!

[cut]

There was a program on not that long ago, which was documenting the situation in Kashmir, which saw Indian forces dragging anyone they wanted off the streets and beat them, even putting on a fake "terrorist house storming" when in fact they had brought two dead terrorists into a house, riddled them with some more bullets and completely trashed the house to make it look like one.

The house happened to be owned by an honest, Muslim businessman and his family.

As previously said, both sides have done stupid and horrible things, try not to focus on one of them.

Yeah and I am pretty sure it was made by the BBC(Bulls**t Broadcoasting Corporation). And would you be kind enough to point out that video? If you cannot, then just shut up.. Making irresponsible statements about some video about some honest Muslim businessman seems to be the favourite British hobby. And I take it that you were there documenting the 'evidence' when they brought the dead terrorists into the house. :roll: Dude, if you can do some objective research please present the facts, if not go do what you do best. Preach moralistic crap to anyone who will listen to u...

Actually there were several sources that reported this incident and americans on this forum have mentioned it before, so trying to palm it off as BBC "lies" shows your ignorance. In my experience anyone who says the BBC tells lies knows nothing about our national broadcaster. Incidentally the BBC happens to be accountable to us, as we pay for it directly. The same cannot be said for almost all the other media in the world.

[StealthMode]

Chancey Republicans:

Actually Im not ignorant. Im educated, and have held an open mind to this religon for a long time, i just post what I have learned.

Ive posted a list of quotes from the quran many times, It speaks for itself.

Also, many other threads address this. I have just come to a conclusion, that can be changed at anytime if im presented with more positve material.

Check out this recent thread:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19578

How about you stop being ignorant and read some of the Quran WORD FOR WORD.

Good site: http://www.prophetofdoom.net/legacy.html

More: http://oneway.jesusanswers.com/islam.html

The Quran speaks for itself. If someone cares to provide me with something to dispute it, Im open.

Good translation site (provideds 3 back to back scholarly translations):
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/



"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

"You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177)

The Prophet killed the men of the Jewish tribe Bani Quraiza (some 600 to 800 of them) and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims All the other Jews of Medina were exiled. (Bukhari 5:59:362)

The Prophet had the date-palms of the Jewish tribe of Bani-Al- Nadir burnt and cut down. "It was with Allah's permission" (Koran 59:5)

The Prophet said to Sa'd, :The Bani Quraiza have agreed to accept your verdict" Sa'd said, "Kill all their men and take their women and children as slaves" The Prophet replied, "You have judged according to God's Judgment" (Bukhari 5:59:447)

"The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29)

These are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30)

"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)

And this was your response Chauncey Republican:

I wonder who translated that!? Maybe Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? Try reading quran for yourself, then make an opinion!
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12000&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=48
I did read SOME of it. But of course, it isnt the true word now because it was translated, that will be the next angle to dispute these translations, right???

[cut]

jesusanswers.com and prophetofdoom.com are bound to be clear and fair translations of the K'ran. :P

[chauncy republicans]

jesusanswers.com and prophetofdoom.com are bound to be clear and fair translations of the K'ran. :P
Yeah I know... Just like the 700 clubs version. :lol:

[chauncy republicans]

Oh BTW Stealthmode there is a topic a few lines down called "American Taliban" why dont you go check it out?

[Tane Angle]

You're talking about some details of Islam but only the big points of Christianity. Try comparing the Ten Commandments or two Big Rules to the Five Pillars.

1/3rd of the Koran says real nice things, a 1/3rd says real not nice things, and 1/3rd says stuff that doesn't fit into one of those two categories. Remember, it was written over a long period of time, and so there are wide variations in the rhetoric, even a large number of mutually exclusive orders.

Of course, Islam is far from being just the Koran. Think either Druze clan interpret a good deal of the Koran the same way that a lot of Peshwar clerics do?

The Bible is also filled with mutually exclusive notes. Even the New Testament has a lot of conflicting stories (especially if one takes into account the other 36 or so Gospels).

DevGru77, that means you're only taking part of the whole document, right? Which is fine, Muslims do the same thing.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[StealthMode]

You find the same type of language in the bible as I have quoted above....

You are right, it is how it is interpreted.

Im actuall not familiar with the bible or the Koran very well. Ive just never seen the same types of things said in the bible.

I guess USC scholars arent qualified to translate the Koran...

I wont vouch for my randomly found website that I offered from a brief webs search.

Regardless, i still think its a problem in the world, radical Islam or whatever you want to call it, more so than anything else.

The American Taliban thread is just plain stupid IMHO

[brigadeotg]

There was a program on not that long ago, which was documenting the situation in Kashmir, which saw Indian forces dragging anyone they wanted off the streets and beat them, even putting on a fake "terrorist house storming" when in fact they had brought two dead terrorists into a house, riddled them with some more bullets and completely trashed the house to make it look like one.

The house happened to be owned by an honest, Muslim businessman and his family.

As previously said, both sides have done stupid and horrible things, try not to focus on one of them.

Yeah and I am pretty sure it was made by the BBC(Bulls**t Broadcoasting Corporation). And would you be kind enough to point out that video? If you cannot, then just shut up.. Making irresponsible statements about some video about some honest Muslim businessman seems to be the favourite British hobby. And I take it that you were there documenting the 'evidence' when they brought the dead terrorists into the house. :roll: Dude, if you can do some objective research please present the facts, if not go do what you do best. Preach moralistic crap to anyone who will listen to u...

Actually there were several sources that reported this incident and americans on this forum have mentioned it before, so trying to palm it off as BBC "lies" shows your ignorance. In my experience anyone who says the BBC tells lies knows nothing about our national broadcaster. Incidentally the BBC happens to be accountable to us, as we pay for it directly. The same cannot be said for almost all the other media in the world.

What incident are you talking about? please provide a source. And how do you know that whatever BBC shows is the truth? And what does americans reporting on this forum has anything to do with anything? BBC shows what it wants to show and most if not everything they have reported on Kashmir is has been distorted to some extent. I wonder why that is... And so is the case with everything else.

BBC gets it's kicks from trying to portray itself as the " saviour of the opressed, righteous, moral authority bla bla" by feeding the BS it calls news. But nothing could be farther from the truth. The BBC has an agenda. Why and what that is.. I can only speculate about. It probably still thinks that there is a "British Empire" :roll: :D . It's been the national pastime of the BBC (and it's supporters) to pass judgements on other regions of the world constantly allying themselves with what they see as the 'oppressed' when it suits it(them) and changing colors the moment the situation becomes unfavourable. If you pay for it directly then it is you who is ignorant but also downright stupid to think that the BBC is the "beacon of truth" in this world. Pity that nobody else shares your view...

[Secret Squirrel]

You find the same type of language in the bible as I have quoted above....

You are right, it is how it is interpreted.

Im actuall not familiar with the bible or the Koran very well. Ive just never seen the same types of things said in the bible.

I guess USC scholars arent qualified to translate the Koran...

I wont vouch for my randomly found website that I offered from a brief webs search.

Regardless, i still think its a problem in the world, radical Islam or whatever you want to call it, more so than anything else.

The American Taliban thread is just plain stupid IMHO

Thats the danger of putting out such strong views when you're not familar with either text very well. And why do you generalize the entire muslim faith into one opinion? If you could really do this with the muslim faith, then there wouldnt be various sects. Also, i'm sure you realize that radical islam is based on fatwa(sp?) which can be changed simply by a cleric's word.

[chauncy republicans]

i still think its a problem in the world, radical Islam or whatever you want to call it, more so than anything else.
Radical Wahabi Islam is our enemy. There are a lot of moderate Muslims out there that are very tolerant and passive people.

[Mark Sman]

A quick reality check against my handy dandy desk Quran.
Translated by MUHAMMAD 'ALI 1951 Lahore Pakistan
Published by AHMADIYYAH ANJUMAN ISHA'AT ISLAM
LAHORE, INC. U.S.A.
1995
Italicised = disagreement with the text I have
Bold = agreement

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

[Pooga]

Cheery.

[cut]

A quick reality check against my handy dandy desk Quran.
Translated by MUHAMMAD 'ALI 1951 Lahore Pakistan
Published by AHMADIYYAH ANJUMAN ISHA'AT ISLAM
LAHORE, INC. U.S.A.
1995
Italicised = disagreement with the text I have
Bold = agreement

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65).

Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3)

"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)

Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).

"Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29)

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

any muslim will tell you they follow the prophet mohammed way of life as an example of how best to lead a life as a muslim, mohammed had friends who were christians or jews, even his wife was IIRC.

[Mark Sman]

They also place great credence in the Quran.

Which is why I just pulled my copy to check the quotes.

And Mohammed had alot of wives.

[Secret Squirrel]

They also place great credence in the Quran.

Which is why I just pulled my copy to check the quotes.

When exactly was it written and in what larger historical context (just curious)?

[Mark Sman]

When exactly was it written and in what larger historical context (just curious)?

Not sure I understand. My copy, or the Quran?

[Secret Squirrel]

When exactly was it written and in what larger historical context (just curious)?

Not sure I understand. My copy, or the Quran?

You're copy is a tranliteration right? I was asking about the original arbic version. I think i saw somewhere that it was 610 CE (common era i believe is what CE refers to), but i'm not sure.

[Mark Sman]

My copy is a translation. Transliteration, as I understand it, would be like bablefish.

My copy indicates in the foreward that the Quran as revealed in pieces over the course of 23 years. It wasn't in order either. Subsequently it was reinterpreted over the years, with some scholars giving more credence to some versions than others.

As for the wider historical context, a better answer than I can give follows.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/compilationbrief.html
http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_history.htm

I'm not Muslim though.

I get my spiritual guidance from the JCs.

Jesus Christ and Johnny Cash.

[StealthMode]

Thanks Secret Squriel, I really hadnt realized the impact of the clerics and fatwa on conveying what THEY feel is meant and desired of followers. I may have been a little aggresive with my comments, but I still a huge problem with the FOUNDATION and what the text of the Koran says, it seems so violent and aggresive. Along with the passive aspects in the Koran, how can these violent aspects be overlooked?

[Mongrel]

Flagg wrote: "But otherwise......it's a free world and we're all just squirrels trying to find some nuts"

Smartest thing I've read all day.

Cheers!
M.

[Tane Angle]

StealthMode, the violent aspects can't really ignored, nor should they be. But people should learn all the sides, then realize that the Koran has relatively little to do with modern Muslim beliefs. Economics and individual clerics do. Often it is economics and a cleric's fatwa that makes the difference between focusing on the good elements of Islam or focusing on the bad elements. Surviving in the Middle East, much less fighting in it, can't be learned just by picking up a Koran or even reading a text book about the Koran. It takes making friends with the ones in the warzones, from many different groups. And it takes a whole lot more.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[anonymous individual]

Sick