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View Full Version : House health bill totals $1.2 trillion



Chulo
11-02-2009, 08:08 PM
WASHINGTON – The health care bill headed for a vote in the House this week costs $1.2 trillion or more over a decade, according to numerous Democratic officials and figures contained in an analysis by congressional budget experts, far higher than the $900 billion cited by President Barack Obama as a price tag for his reform plan.
While the Congressional Budget Office has put the cost of expanding coverage in the legislation at roughly $1 trillion, Democrats added billions more on higher spending for public health, a reinsurance program to hold down retiree health costs, payments for preventive services and more.
Many of the additions are designed to improve benefits or ease access to coverage in government programs. The officials who provided overall cost estimates did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss them.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has referred repeatedly to the bill's net cost of $894 billion over a decade for coverage.
Asked about the higher estimate, Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said the measure not only insures 36 million more Americans, it provides critical health insurance reform in a way that is fiscally sound.
"It will not add one dime to the deficit. In fact, the CBO said last week that it will reduce the deficit both in the first 10 years and in the second 10 years," Daly said.
Democrats have been intent on passing legislation this year to implement Obama's call for expanded coverage for millions, curbs on industry abuses and provisions to slow the rate of growth of health care costs nationally.
"Now, add it all up, and the plan I'm proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years," the president said in a nationally televised speech in early September.
Whatever the final cost of legislation, the calendar is working increasingly against the White House and Democrats. While a House vote is possible late this week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., may not be able to begin debate on the issue until the week before Thanksgiving. Additionally, the Republican leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, has hinted at efforts to extend the debate for weeks if not months, a timetable that could extend into 2010.
One casualty of the time crunch and threatened Republican delaying tactics may be formal House-Senate negotiations on a final compromise. An alternative is a less formal hurry-up final negotiation involving the White House and senior Democrats.
Pelosi and her lieutenants worked on last-minute changes in the measure to ease concerns among opponents of abortion and a contentious provision relating to illegal immigrants. Conservative Democrats have expressed concern about the cost of the bill, and an evening closed-door meeting gave Pelosi and her lieutenants their first chance to hear their response.
The bill includes an option for a government-run health plan.
The leadership can afford more than two dozen defections and still be assured of the votes to prevail on the bill, one of the most sweeping measures in recent years.
Republicans put the cost of the bill at nearly $1.3 trillion.
"Our goal is to make it as difficult as possible for" Democrats to pass it, House Republican leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said at a news conference. "We believe it is the wrong prescription."
One day after announcing Republicans would have an alternative measure, Boehner offered few details. He said it would omit one of the central provisions in Democratic bills — a ban on the insurance industry's practice of denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. Instead, he said the Republicans would encourage creation of insurance pools for high-risk individuals and take other steps to ease their access to coverage.
Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., the third-ranking leader, said that Democrats looked at their bill as a way to advance universal coverage. In contrast, he said, Republicans "believe the real issue back home is cost" of insurance, and said their alternative would be designed to tackle it.
Democrats have made elimination of the industry's practice a linchpin of their drive to overhaul the health care system. The industry has said it would not fight the change, and an accompanying restriction on its ability to charge higher premiums for certain groups, as the legislation includes a requirement for individuals to purchase insurance. Lacking that, the industry says millions of relatively healthy individuals would refuse to pay for coverage until they became sick, and the cost of premiums would rise sharply for everyone else.
Republicans oppose any government requirements for individuals to purchase insurance or for businesses to provide coverage.
The Congressional Budget Office is seen by lawmakers as the arbiter of claims about the costs and effects of proposed legislation, and the agency has been under intense pressure in recent weeks to compete assessments on several bills circulating in House and Senate.
In a letter last week, the agency's director, Dr. Douglas Elmendorf, said the net cost of expanding coverage in the House measure was estimated at $894 billion over 10 years, a figure reflecting a gross total of $1 trillion in federal subsidies as well as other spending.
The letter contained no similar assessment for the balance of the legislation and it was not clear when or whether one would be forthcoming.
In a letter last week to Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., on the general subject of health care, Elmendorf cautioned that some provisions in legislation have elements that raise costs and elements that lower costs.
"Tabulating all of the aspects of the proposal that would, in isolation, increase federal outlays would be complicated and would require somewhat arbitrary judgments" about calculating overall costs, Elmendorf said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091103/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Soldat_Américain
11-02-2009, 08:12 PM
Ugh...where's the public option?

Chulo
11-02-2009, 08:19 PM
Ugh...where's the public option?
Get it or be fined... thats your public option

FlintHillBilly
11-02-2009, 08:40 PM
Get it or be fined... thats your public option

Haha, some option. Wow the whole total package of this thing goes up, goes down, goes up, goes down.. sort of like a roller coaster. I bet it CHANGES again.

Is this really that important when theres alot to be done with Afghanistan and the troops....

Zarak
11-02-2009, 08:56 PM
"It will not add one dime to the deficit. In fact, the CBO said last week that it will reduce the deficit both in the first 10 years and in the second 10 years," Daly said.




Bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll****.

Chulo
11-02-2009, 09:05 PM
Its soooo good, congressmembers have inserted a clause so they dont have to take the same healthcare they just made for everyone.

and its soooooooooo good, that this program will be taxed now, but will only go into affect AFTER the next presidential elections. Why? because it would be soooo great that Obama would beat everyone, so to make it exciting they decided not to enact it untill he gets reelected.

GregHJ
11-02-2009, 09:57 PM
Although I am for a universal health care system, I have to agree that the bill is a disaster. This is what happens when you let Congress go at something with no guidance from the executive branch. I think it's good that President Obama chose not to go down Clinton's path and tell them "nothing but single payer." However, even he must see that he was too detached from the details of the process. The current bill is far too expensive, doesn't cover enough people, and doesn't even begin to solve the health care crisis.

I wonder why we couldn't just look at all the different health care systems in the industrialized world and just pick the best aspects of all of them and find a way to put it all together? What we really need is a system similar to that of France.

Soldat_Américain
11-02-2009, 10:02 PM
I think he's biding his time for when he will "give" his guidance.

shocker1
11-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Americans forced to buy insurance or pay fines, public option/market place under written buy unknown entity. My advice, invest in Healthcare stocks.

Chulo
11-02-2009, 10:19 PM
Americans forced to buy insurance or pay fines, public option/market place under written buy unknown entity. My advice, invest in Healthcare stocks.
A "not for profit" company that gets to make its own rules and law v. "for profit company" with tons of restrictions.


Who will win>?

Elbs
11-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Its soooo good, congressmembers have inserted a clause so they dont have to take the same healthcare they just made for everyone.

and its soooooooooo good, that this program will be taxed now, but will only go into affect AFTER the next presidential elections. Why? because it would be soooo great that Obama would beat everyone, so to make it exciting they decided not to enact it untill he gets reelected.

CHANGE you will accept (but not us. never. we're great up in capitol hill)

shocker1
11-02-2009, 10:22 PM
A "not for profit" company that gets to make its own rules and law v. "for profit company" with tons of restrictions.


Who will win>?
The profit is in the loss, follow the money it leads to the same people.

Chulo
11-02-2009, 10:23 PM
The profit is in the loss, follow the money it leads to the same people.
You mean the American People :P

shocker1
11-02-2009, 10:31 PM
You mean the American People :P
We lose.

The Dems should have rammed through a single payer system and nationalize the insurance companies. If it worked well for a few years then American people would never stand for tampering with it again. Not that I support that but it would be bold and confident. This mass of red tape I have been reading is...well criminal, people should go to jail if this passes.

Chulo
11-02-2009, 10:39 PM
We lose.

The Dems should have rammed through a single payer system and nationalize the insurance companies. If it worked well for a few years then American people would never stand for tampering with it again. Not that I support that but it would be bold and confident. This mass of red tape I have been reading is...well criminal, people should go to jail if this passes.
You notice what the article says


One casualty of the time crunch and threatened Republican delaying tactics may be formal House-Senate negotiations on a final compromise. An alternative is a less formal hurry-up final negotiation involving the White House and senior Democrats.
The democrats wouldnt even let the bill be put up for 72 hrs for the public to read. So much for Obama's promise that all bills would be up for atleast 5 days http://www.nowpublic.com/world/obamas-white-house-post-bills-online-congress-signs-it

United States President Barack Obama (http://my.nowpublic.com/tag/Obama) is re-pledging to post bills online earlier and allow for public debate before it is passed in Congress.

The promise to post any bills and allow for five days of public debate was part of Obama's election platform, and yet five months into his administration he has broken that promise numerous times.

Watchdog and advocacy groups have criticized the President for repeatedly failing to allow for timely public access to the bills. The biggest problem has been posting the bills after they've been passed, as critics say there is no use in commenting on a bill that has already gone through congress.

The white house promises to start the process earlier and post the bills sooner.

Apprently the Republicans are "sabotaging" this great bill by asking for more time to read it and having it be transparent.

shocker1
11-02-2009, 10:44 PM
I know, the bills online now are way out of date. I doubt much was removed and am confident much has been added.

LoboCanada
11-03-2009, 12:11 AM
You guys need to come to Canada, our healthcare system is not the mayhem it's made out to be by some in the US.

Soldat_Américain
11-03-2009, 12:16 AM
Considering a lot of them don't support his agenda it only makes sense that they would "sabotage" the bill. Granted I don't see them coming up with a viable alternative on their own as they didn't believe it was an issue.

Zarak
11-03-2009, 12:26 AM
...our healthcare system is not the mayhem it's made out to be by some in the US.

Either is ours. ;)

SkyUS
11-03-2009, 12:32 AM
Fantastic news.

I love the idea of being fined if I decide not to have health insurance. Just awesome news. The whole bunch of lawmakers need to get punched in the balls for this.

budgie
11-03-2009, 03:07 AM
On the one hand , over a decade it is easily cheaper than war, which has cost almost as much to date.

http://www.costofwar.com/

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home


On the other hand if it doesn't provide public healthcare to the estimated 40 million uninsured, it's a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Mu-Meson
11-03-2009, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't worry about this clusterfcuk of a healthcare reform attempt. They only way it comes close to "working" is with an individual mandate requiring everyone to purchase insurance. Such a requirement is unconstitutional as all hell, and I wanna know when someone is gonna start bringing that up.

Jobu
11-03-2009, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't worry about this clusterfcuk of a healthcare reform attempt. They only way it comes close to "working" is with an individual mandate requiring everyone to purchase insurance. Such a requirement is unconstitutional as all hell, and I wanna know when someone is gonna start bringing that up.

The first time someone actually gets fined and hires a lawyer.

They'd have to pass the law first, try enforcing it, and THEN you can ask the courts whether it's constitutional or not.

Geezah
11-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Either is ours. ;)

Amen.......

I much prefer what I have here to what I had in the UK..........

shhfiles
11-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Jobu:The first time someone actually gets fined and hires a lawyer.

They'd have to pass the law first, try enforcing it, and THEN you can ask the courts whether it's constitutional or not.


Hmm...Class Action Lawsuit..Maybe 1 of the largest in history...woot

Alpheus
11-03-2009, 05:02 PM
"It will not add one dime to the deficit. In fact, the CBO said last week that it will reduce the deficit both in the first 10 years and in the second 10 years," Daly said.

Ah, not this crock of **** again. Two things: First, the government starts collecting the assload of taxes that are going to pay for this monstrosity straight away, but the benefits coverage only begins in 2013. Second, if you think a government takeover of healthcare, creating over 100 new beaucracies, will come in on budget, I have a bridge in London I'd like to sell to you.

Chulo
11-03-2009, 08:13 PM
On the one hand , over a decade it is easily cheaper than war, which has cost almost as much to date.

http://www.costofwar.com/

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home


On the other hand if it doesn't provide public healthcare to the estimated 40 million uninsured, it's a waste of taxpayer dollars.
From your own source


To date, $915.1 billion dollars have been allocated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The national, state, and local numbers we provide are based on the total approved amounts through the end of Fiscal Year 2009.Never mind we just signed TARP nearly a Trillion when you add this Aug report with the new revised numbers
The Congressional Budget Office has quietly altered its estimate of the ultimate cost to taxpayers of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program — and now figures it’ll be much more expensive in the long run than it previously figured.http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/04/03/cbo-tarp-may-be-more-costly-than-first-thought/

and this health care bill of $1.2 Trillion to a total of $2 Trillion Dollars signed for in 10 months.

We went to war in 2001 when the towers were attacked, 8 years later its not reached a Trillion in spending yet, and you say that spending 2 Trillion is about the same? Are you expecting 1.2 Trillion to be spend in the next 2 years on the war?

eskachig
11-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Either is ours. ;)When 60% of bankrupcies in this country are caused by medical bills I have a hard time agreeing with you. Our system is pretty crappy.

Chulo
11-03-2009, 08:22 PM
When 60% of bankrupcies in this country are caused by medical bills I have a hard time agreeing with you. Our system is pretty crappy.
Most people dont deny healthcare needs to be changed. The question is how and who. Do you trust the people that bang out 1000 pages, wont show you whats in the bill, rush it through and make it law?

Jobu
11-03-2009, 08:22 PM
When 60% of bankrupcies in this country are caused by medical bills

I think it's been well established that this is a myth.

brainplay
11-04-2009, 03:13 PM
So did tort reform make it in this version or are we all still screwed?