Africa: When if ever will all the fighting end?

[WestCoastG's]

War, no place else is it more apparent than Africa. Nations like Liberria, Serria Leone, Angola, Sudan, and the Congo just to name a few are countries that have, will, or are currently being ravaged by oppresive goverments and rebel groups with democratic, people, liberation, somewhere in there name. Since alot of these countries have been independent there has been fighting but when controlled by europe there was relative peace. What do you think?


Sincerely WestCoastG's

[b.scheller]

The only reason these problems persist, is because of the Europeans. They drew nations out of sand, tribes that had been formerly friendly would find themselves on the opposite sides of the border, former enemies would find themselves together in the same nation.

Europe is to be blame for the destruction of the very fragile natural makeup of Africa's people, just the same as the different areas of the world that we're ravaged by the Europeans.

[MEGR]

I think Africa was better off with the Europeans there. Anyway, just like the Mid-East, there will prob be no peace in Africa.

[moughoun]

The only reason these problems persist, is because of the Europeans. They drew nations out of sand, tribes that had been formerly friendly would find themselves on the opposite sides of the border, former enemies would find themselves together in the same nation.

Europe is to be blame for the destruction of the very fragile natural makeup of Africa's people, just the same as the different areas of the world that we're ravaged by the Europeans.

And you are in Canada, how exactly did you get there :roll:

[UoUo]

I think Africa was better off with the Europeans there. Anyway, just like the Mid-East, there will prob be no peace in Africa.

Just like that in America the crime will never end....

[b.scheller]

I came over 10 years ago.

Anyway, it's not justifable that because the Europeans at first caused the problems that they have to solve them or that they're to blame for the problems now. Sure, history has been a vicious cycle; their are connections to the Europeans and the current conflicts but in order for Africa to go back to a peaceful means of co-existance. They must solve their own problems. Just like the Arabs, who use the excuse that the Europeans are to blame for the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (which at the time, they hated)...

[WestCoastG's]

The Europeans did a pretty good job setting up your country as well as the USA( We are the last superpower)
In South Africa whites controll over 90 % of the money yet represent 10% population, could it be that whites know how to spend and invest money wisely. Alot of black controlled nations have receved a little money and spent it like a child on white elephant projects

[b.scheller]

The British and the French did a good job in setting up the BNA (British North America ~ Canada) and the thirteen colonies. Of course with the blood of sacrafice of the native's.

Anyway, Africa is a very hard case. White's do control alot of the land in countless countries, but in most cases their families had bougth that land decades ago; with the different regimes in power (such as the apartheid in South Africa) they were able to gain a prospective amount of money, before the regimes fell apart.

Meanwhile the native population, would be oppressed or would not have that kind of money to be able to buy themselves land or machinery. It's not fair to say that the Euro-African's are more clever. They've had the luck of history. They were able to get rich on other people's oppression.

[WestCoastG's]

Do any of yall think that the UN(United Nuisances) should begin blocking small arms exports to Afrika
How do you get an image to appear below your name whenever you post something

[cut]

Do any of yall think that the UN(United Nuisances) should begin blocking small arms exports to Afrika
How do you get an image to appear below your name whenever you post something

well the biggest arms exporters in the world are the UK and the US, I don't think the UN (United Nations) is powerful enough without to make a decision like that without UK/US backing.

[WestCoastG's]

The biggest arms exporter is Russia dumbass, do you know that 80 million kalashinkovs have been produced and the T-55 is in service with 66 countries, every conflict these days has one or more sides that all of there equpment is russian

[LordHalbert]

I think education and prosperity is the key.

If you're hungry, unemployed, and have nothing to do, you're gunna join a millitia - at least you'll have something to do.

So, that's my take on it. Take a look at the insurgents in Iraq, a lot of them come from slums.

The reason Europe (for the most part) can coexist is because of education, respect for human rights, and probably memories of WWI and WWII.

Africans (and Arabs) need to stop blaming the west for all their problems. Their problems are mostly their own now.

[BlackRain]

well the biggest arms exporters in the world are the UK and the US, I don't think the UN (United Nations) is powerful enough without to make a decision like that without UK/US backing.

Correction! The top arms exporters in the world are:

1. United States $4,562 million
2. China $3,100 million
3. France $1,288 million
4. United Kingdom $1,125 million
5. India $1,064 million
6. Pakistan $759 million
7. Germany $675 million
8. Brazil $597 million
9. Sweden $486 million
10. Egypt $486 million
11. Turkey $442 million
12. Algeria $365 million
13. Italy $358 million
14. Iran $335 million
15. Jordan $280 million
16. Angola $255 million
17. Netherlands $225 million
18. Colombia $222 million
19. Israel $203 million
20. Bangladesh $180 million
21. Peru $178 million
22. Thailand $162 million
23. Norway $156 million
24. Canada $152 million
25. Korea, South $150 million

What Are the Most Common Firearms Exported from the USA?

Leading U.S. gun exporters in 2000

H & R 1871 Inc New England Firearms Co. Gardner, MA
Marlin Firearms Co North Haven, CT
Maverick Arms, Inc Eagle Pass, TX
O. F. Mossburg & Sons, Inc. North Haven, CT
Remington Arms Co. Inc. Ilion, NY
Smith & Wesson Springfield, MA
Sturm Ruger & Co. Newport, NH
U.S. Repeating Arms Co. New Haven, CT

Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

As you can see COLT, BUSHMASTER, DPMS, and other AR15/M16 manufacturers are missing from that list.

I can't really recall to many pictures of African rebels or government soldiers displaying American made weapons.

Typically they use Soviet bloc small arms, artillery, and european armour.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39210000/jpg/_39210252_child203.jpg

[sgt.pepper]

India is one of the biggest arms exporter maybe [IMPORTER]

[Red]

The Europeans did a pretty good job setting up your country as well as the USA( We are the last superpower)
In South Africa whites controll over 90 % of the money yet represent 10% population, could it be that whites know how to spend and invest money wisely. Alot of black controlled nations have receved a little money and spent it like a child on white elephant projects
You need to correct yourself there brother,African leaders recieve the money with the backing of a lot of western countries.White folks are not any wiser at spending and investing money than black folks.So your whole premise is complete bull****.

[Red]

I think education and prosperity is the key.

If you're hungry, unemployed, and have nothing to do, you're gunna join a millitia - at least you'll have something to do.

So, that's my take on it. Take a look at the insurgents in Iraq, a lot of them come from slums.

The reason Europe (for the most part) can coexist is because of education, respect for human rights, and probably memories of WWI and WWII.

Africans (and Arabs) need to stop blaming the west for all their problems. Their problems are mostly their own now.
Erm,wrong.When you say Africans should stop blaming everyone,you need to be specific because Africa is such a large place and not everyone has time to blame anyone for anything.And to let you know there are a lot of highly educated Africans doing big things so you need to go do some more research about this topic before you leave your foot in your mouth.And i can say this with all certainty,a lot of the most corrupt countries in Africa were and some still are propped up by some western countries.It is very easy to turn a blind eye to evil when you need to have access to their oil.

[Royal]

The biggest arms exporter is Russia dumbass, do you know that 80 million kalashinkovs have been produced and the T-55 is in service with 66 countries, every conflict these days has one or more sides that all of there equpment is russian

Dumbass?

Kalashnikovs have been manufactured throughout the former Warsaw Pact, the former Yugoslavia and China as well as under 'licence' in both Africa and Asia, as have T55's.

[Fargin]

The wars will stop, when there's no more money to be made.

Right about never. p-)

[Chris1]

The reason Europe (for the most part) can coexist is because of education, respect for human rights, and probably memories of WWI and WWII.
Is this a joke?
We co-exist because of education, respect for human rights and the fact we butchered each other in numbers so large no accurate count has ever been made?
We co-exist because its easier to sell each other crap than bayonet each other.

[b.scheller]

Their are African nations who have prospered greatly. Such is the case of Botswana. More then likely the biggest African miracle-story. Although it's one of the richest African nations, disease still plagues the population.

[Red]

The problem with a whole lot of African problems is not that the people are stupid rather the greatest problems stem from the leadership or lack of it.African leaders are the most corrupt people on earth,and the thing is that a lot of western countries don't seem to care about these guys and their track records.Given the right type leadership,Africa could have been the place to be.

[Phx_PL]

The problem with a whole lot of African problems is not that the people are stupid rather the greatest problems stem from the leadership or lack of it.African leaders are the most corrupt people on earth,and the thing is that a lot of western countries don't seem to care about these guys and their track records.Given the right type leadership,Africa could have been the place to be.

you are right
but unfortunately there is a problem with some kind of "stupidity".
For ex. we can't simply give them computers (without support of spiecialists, just machines) to improve quality of their life. Most of them will use comps as furniture or sth like that.
Analogically, we gave them guns. And what? They didn't use rifle to hunt but to steal food from the nearest village cuz that was easier.

I know that this example is quite radical but IMO it contains a bit of truth

[Kilgor]

Do any of yall think that the UN(United Nuisances) should begin blocking small arms exports to Afrika
How do you get an image to appear below your name whenever you post something

well the biggest arms exporters in the world are the UK and the US, I don't think the UN (United Nations) is powerful enough without to make a decision like that without UK/US backing.

yeah.. we see african armies driving around in Abrams & packing M4s and SA80s

:roll:

Pictures ive seen are rusty soviet design tanks and the usual AK47. Some armies still have T-34s !

[Pandy]

Some ARMIES STILL GOT THE GERMAN TIGER TANKS!...

But, the way I see it, Africa should make a big ass nation...

United States of Africa... :-D

[szr]

Aside from the tribal stuff, the reason Africa does so poorly is because the land is extremely hard to work. Water can be hard to come by. There is ever encroaching desertification rendering farmland useless. The rivers of central and southern Africa are largely unnavigable making trade difficult.

Africa is largely resouce poor. The few resouces Africa is rich in, are resources that are largely useless to them but extremely valuable to the industrialized world. As such, these resources are still largely controlled by outside powers, unlike say; the Middle East which was never colonised to the extent Africa was. The Middle East's primary exportable resource -- oil -- is largely controlled by the governements of where it's produced.

Africa has vast diamond deposits used in industry and jewelry. Africa also is one of the main sources of Rare Earth Elements (REEs), mined for use in consumer electronics and telecommunications products. These resouces are largely controlled by outside MNC's; a residual of Africa's colonized period.

The primary resource and means of income for your continent is controlled by outside entities. Reintroduce, famine, disease, tribal strife, and abundance of weapons and you get Africa.

Africa has a lot more going against it than just corruption or disease or tribal conflict. It's all that and them some more. I doubt it has much to do with them being 'black' or 'Africans'. In their circumstances, I don't know if any other race or ethnicity could do much better, especially considering the kind of influence non-black/African companies still have on the continent. De Beers is a prime example.

[Red]

The problem with a whole lot of African problems is not that the people are stupid rather the greatest problems stem from the leadership or lack of it.African leaders are the most corrupt people on earth,and the thing is that a lot of western countries don't seem to care about these guys and their track records.Given the right type leadership,Africa could have been the place to be.

you are right
but unfortunately there is a problem with some kind of "stupidity".
For ex. we can't simply give them computers (without support of spiecialists, just machines) to improve quality of their life. Most of them will use comps as furniture or sth like that.
Analogically, we gave them guns. And what? They didn't use rifle to hunt but to steal food from the nearest village cuz that was easier.

I know that this example is quite radical but IMO it contains a bit of truth
Dude,i am sorry to say this but you are very clueless.

[Red]

Aside from the tribal stuff, the reason Africa does so poorly is because the land is extremely hard to work. Water can be hard to come by. There is ever encroaching desertification rendering farmland useless. The rivers of central and southern Africa are largely unnavigable making trade difficult.

Africa is largely resouce poor. The few resouces Africa is rich in, are resources that are largely useless to them but extremely valuable to the industrialized world. As such, these resources are still largely controlled by outside powers, unlike say; the Middle East which was never colonised to the extent Africa was. The Middle East's primary exportable resource -- oil -- is largely controlled by the governements of where it's produced.

Africa has vast diamond deposits used in industry and jewelry. Africa also is one of the main sources of Rare Earth Elements (REEs), mined for use in consumer electronics and telecommunications products. These resouces are largely controlled by outside MNC's; a residual of Africa's colonized period.

The primary resource and means of income for your continent is controlled by outside entities. Reintroduce, famine, disease, tribal strife, and abundance of weapons and you get Africa.

Africa has a lot more going against it than just corruption or disease or tribal conflict. It's all that and them some more. I doubt it has much to do with them being 'black' or 'Africans'. In their circumstances, I don't know if any other race or ethnicity could do much better, especially considering the kind of influence non-black/African companies still have on the continent. De Beers is a prime example.
Everything you have just listed in this post are wrong.My best advice to you is to pack your bags and visit before giving your analysis.

[szr]

Aside from the tribal stuff, the reason Africa does so poorly is because the land is extremely hard to work. Water can be hard to come by. There is ever encroaching desertification rendering farmland useless. The rivers of central and southern Africa are largely unnavigable making trade difficult.

Africa is largely resouce poor. The few resouces Africa is rich in, are resources that are largely useless to them but extremely valuable to the industrialized world. As such, these resources are still largely controlled by outside powers, unlike say; the Middle East which was never colonised to the extent Africa was. The Middle East's primary exportable resource -- oil -- is largely controlled by the governements of where it's produced.

Africa has vast diamond deposits used in industry and jewelry. Africa also is one of the main sources of Rare Earth Elements (REEs), mined for use in consumer electronics and telecommunications products. These resouces are largely controlled by outside MNC's; a residual of Africa's colonized period.

The primary resource and means of income for your continent is controlled by outside entities. Reintroduce, famine, disease, tribal strife, and abundance of weapons and you get Africa.

Africa has a lot more going against it than just corruption or disease or tribal conflict. It's all that and them some more. I doubt it has much to do with them being 'black' or 'Africans'. In their circumstances, I don't know if any other race or ethnicity could do much better, especially considering the kind of influence non-black/African companies still have on the continent. De Beers is a prime example.
Everything you have just listed in this post are wrong.My best advice to you is to pack your bags and visit before giving your analysis.

lol enlighten me or shut the **** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.

[Mongrel]

Greetings!

Africa..IMHO prob' one of the most exploited places, and people on this planet. Usually under the banner of an age old controlling of the masses system ie.. Organized religion.

See Nestle foods (among others) come into a village and hard sell the uneducated villagers to use their baby formula..then see the health rates of the children goto crap, and the nursemaids now dried up.

See the religious types walk into a village and show pics of aborted fetuses, and hard sell (save them) them on non-abortion, and non-condom use..see AIDS cases at an all time high, and climbing.

See villagers used as lab rats, and the connection to the polio vaccine and AIDS. The list goes on, and on.

Not to forget slavery.

United states of Africa sounds good, but too little to late would have been a good idea to implement some sort of 'prime directive' of non-interference in a culture...may be from Sci-fi but it sounds like a good idea to me.

Sadly these people have been butchering each other for Zillions of years. I've seen open cannibalism in African wars on BBC documentaries, and with its ever corrupt, and often weak leadership. I'm not sure it will ever end.

Furthermore IMHO any nation that thinks it can stop it had best deal with its own internal issues, and problems first. There are allot of uneducated people starving on North American streets also.

Just my 2 bitz.

Cheers!
M.

[Flagg]

lol enlighten me or shut the f*** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.

How often have you been to Africa?

Last time I checked, Red either lived in or still lives in Africa....and may have some first hand understanding the vast majority of us(that means you and I) don't necessarily have ;)

[szr]

lol enlighten me or shut the f*** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.

How often have you been to Africa?

Last time I checked, Red either lived in or still lives in Africa....and may have some first hand understanding the vast majority of us(that means you and I) don't necessarily have ;)

Last summer, if you count Morocco as Africa. Aside from that I discussed Africa extensively in geo-pol classes in college as well as with my South African geology professor. The things I touched on were recurring themes in all the conversations I've had with people who've spent extensive time in Africa. They're also the points, I think get left out when Africa is discussed on forums such as this. Casualties of Africa's poor leadership and corruption I suppose. :P

[Red]

Aside from the tribal stuff, the reason Africa does so poorly is because the land is extremely hard to work. Water can be hard to come by. There is ever encroaching desertification rendering farmland useless. The rivers of central and southern Africa are largely unnavigable making trade difficult.

Africa is largely resouce poor. The few resouces Africa is rich in, are resources that are largely useless to them but extremely valuable to the industrialized world. As such, these resources are still largely controlled by outside powers, unlike say; the Middle East which was never colonised to the extent Africa was. The Middle East's primary exportable resource -- oil -- is largely controlled by the governements of where it's produced.

Africa has vast diamond deposits used in industry and jewelry. Africa also is one of the main sources of Rare Earth Elements (REEs), mined for use in consumer electronics and telecommunications products. These resouces are largely controlled by outside MNC's; a residual of Africa's colonized period.

The primary resource and means of income for your continent is controlled by outside entities. Reintroduce, famine, disease, tribal strife, and abundance of weapons and you get Africa.

Africa has a lot more going against it than just corruption or disease or tribal conflict. It's all that and them some more. I doubt it has much to do with them being 'black' or 'Africans'. In their circumstances, I don't know if any other race or ethnicity could do much better, especially considering the kind of influence non-black/African companies still have on the continent. De Beers is a prime example.
Everything you have just listed in this post are wrong.My best advice to you is to pack your bags and visit before giving your analysis.

lol enlighten me or shut the f*** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.
Ok let me enlighten you a litlle bit cause i need to get my beauty sleep,You reffered to massive corruption and exploitation in your previous post,well what i am saying is that when you have governments who will bend over backwards to screw their own people just to make some $,you have bad government.You will be surprised at the educational levels of a lot of Africans.And to correct you again,Africa is actually very blessed with abundant resources the thing is that because of very poor leadership and corrupt governments,these resources are only used in a way that the money made from them only benefit very few people.Water is not hard to come by,infact water is very easy to come by but that depends on which country you are in.The thing is that there is a lot of Privatization going on and that included the Privatization of water.And on your last comment on the control of these resources,who allows these multinationals control the resources?it is surely not the people.The bottom line is,if you get rid of these so called governments across africa and bring in new people with new ideas and people who are determined to stem corruption,you will see a change.But the thing is that there are a lot of parties that are interested in keeping Africa the way it is and with the current types of governments in place,they won't have a problem keeping Africa screwed up.

[Red]

lol enlighten me or shut the f*** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.

How often have you been to Africa?

Last time I checked, Red either lived in or still lives in Africa....and may have some first hand understanding the vast majority of us(that means you and I) don't necessarily have ;)
i grew up in Nigeria but i moved to the US.

[szr]

Aside from the tribal stuff, the reason Africa does so poorly is because the land is extremely hard to work. Water can be hard to come by. There is ever encroaching desertification rendering farmland useless. The rivers of central and southern Africa are largely unnavigable making trade difficult.

Africa is largely resouce poor. The few resouces Africa is rich in, are resources that are largely useless to them but extremely valuable to the industrialized world. As such, these resources are still largely controlled by outside powers, unlike say; the Middle East which was never colonised to the extent Africa was. The Middle East's primary exportable resource -- oil -- is largely controlled by the governements of where it's produced.

Africa has vast diamond deposits used in industry and jewelry. Africa also is one of the main sources of Rare Earth Elements (REEs), mined for use in consumer electronics and telecommunications products. These resouces are largely controlled by outside MNC's; a residual of Africa's colonized period.

The primary resource and means of income for your continent is controlled by outside entities. Reintroduce, famine, disease, tribal strife, and abundance of weapons and you get Africa.

Africa has a lot more going against it than just corruption or disease or tribal conflict. It's all that and them some more. I doubt it has much to do with them being 'black' or 'Africans'. In their circumstances, I don't know if any other race or ethnicity could do much better, especially considering the kind of influence non-black/African companies still have on the continent. De Beers is a prime example.
Everything you have just listed in this post are wrong.My best advice to you is to pack your bags and visit before giving your analysis.

lol enlighten me or shut the f*** up. you're a dumbass if you think corruption and poor leadership are africa's only problems. and if you don't know about the problems/circumstances i listed, you don't know **** about africa.
Ok let me enlighten you a litlle bit cause i need to get my beauty sleep,You reffered to massive corruption and exploitation in your previous post,well what i am saying is that when you have governments who will bend over backwards to screw their own people just to make some $,you have bad government.You will be surprised at the educational levels of a lot of Africans.And to correct you again,Africa is actually very blessed with abundant resources the thing is that because of very poor leadership and corrupt governments,these resources are only used in a way that the money made from them only benefit very few people.Water is not hard to come by,infact water is very easy to come by but that depends on which country you are in.The thing is that there is a lot of Privatization going on and that included the Privatization of water.And on your last comment on the control of these resources,who allows these multinationals control the resources?it is surely not the people.The bottom line is,if you get rid of these so called governments across africa and bring in new people with new ideas and people who are determined to stem corruption,you will see a change.But the thing is that there are a lot of parties that are interested in keeping Africa the way it is and with the current types of governments in place,they won't have a problem keeping Africa screwed up.

That's more less what I was saying, minus details on the outside influences that preserve the status quo, because I felt that that stuff gets enough coverage in Africa discussions and had already been covered here. And when I say resource poor, I mean that they have an abundance of certain resource but not necessarily enough of the ones that require very limited processing before they are ready for everyday construction and small business needs.

[Flagg]

To the best of my knowledge, the African continent has quite large deposits of pretty much every valuable natural resource in existence.

Oil,diamonds,gold,platinum,uranium,chromium and the other whiz bang strategic minerals needed for jet engine turbine blades and stuff.

The continent also has the ability to feed itself and earn export $$$ via it's ag and fisheries potential.

In my opinion, I reckon capable leadership will go a long way to getting Africa heading down the path to recovery, but issues like crushing debt, AIDS, and intranational tribal issues need to be effectively addressed before much progress and standard of living improvements are seen.

Just my .02C

[cut]

well the biggest arms exporters in the world are the UK and the US, I don't think the UN (United Nations) is powerful enough without to make a decision like that without UK/US backing.

Correction! The top arms exporters in the world are:

1. United States $4,562 million
2. China $3,100 million
3. France $1,288 million
4. United Kingdom $1,125 million
5. India $1,064 million
6. Pakistan $759 million
7. Germany $675 million
8. Brazil $597 million
9. Sweden $486 million
10. Egypt $486 million
11. Turkey $442 million
12. Algeria $365 million
13. Italy $358 million
14. Iran $335 million
15. Jordan $280 million
16. Angola $255 million
17. Netherlands $225 million
18. Colombia $222 million
19. Israel $203 million
20. Bangladesh $180 million
21. Peru $178 million
22. Thailand $162 million
23. Norway $156 million
24. Canada $152 million
25. Korea, South $150 million



That does nothing but reinforce what I said. The point I made was that the countries that have a permanent seat on the security council also happen to be the biggest exporters, so banning the export of weapons to africa is unlikely to be reinforced by the UN.

[martinexsquaddie]

Europe did screw things up with its empire building and the handover back to africans did'nt go well :(
add a couple of potentialy good african leaders being offed and replaced by tyrants cheers for that one CIA :(
also add south africa that little debacle managed to destablize several countrys :( . Probably the only person to admit it but was quite anti ANC for a long time bad call on my part apratied wasw just plain evil and indefensible

[WestCoastG's]

Many posts ago a list of the top arms exporting countries were listed.
I am not trying to be a smartass but what arms do we export.
The majority of our weapons are custome made to our desires and our 400 billion dollar budget. Besides I have a Janes Tanks and Combat Vehicle Recognition Book (expensive at 29.95 dollars) barely any of our tanks our armored vehicles are in service with other countries. What else do we export that is that expensive or in such a great quantity to make us 4.5 billion a year off arms

[Kilgor]

A arms embargo is going to do nothing to stop the flood of smuggled soviet style weapons into the country.

[Flagg]

1. United States $4,562 million
2. China $3,100 million
3. France $1,288 million
4. United Kingdom $1,125 million
5. India $1,064 million
6. Pakistan $759 million
7. Germany $675 million
8. Brazil $597 million
9. Sweden $486 million
10. Egypt $486 million
11. Turkey $442 million
12. Algeria $365 million
13. Italy $358 million
14. Iran $335 million
15. Jordan $280 million
16. Angola $255 million
17. Netherlands $225 million
18. Colombia $222 million
19. Israel $203 million
20. Bangladesh $180 million
21. Peru $178 million
22. Thailand $162 million
23. Norway $156 million
24. Canada $152 million
25. Korea, South $150 million

A couple things do NOT compute with this list, for example where is Eastern Europe, specifically Russia represented?

Where is North Korea?

Angola EXPORTING a quarter billion's worth of weapons?

Where is the source for this listing...I find it HIGHLY suspect

[WestCoastG's]

;) Thank you all for the posts. I am a smarter boy having read your posts ;)

[Red]

Flagg i agree with you for the most part.What a lot of people don't know is that the inter-tribal issues you see causing wars are artificial.Now let me speak about what i know and that is Nigeria.The main fuel for all the inter-ethnic violence that has been going on are politicians.Ordinarily,these different tribes have very little beef between themselves but when the politicians entered the equation,things got out of hand.My main point is this,if there is a way that the present governments in Africa can be changed with new ones who are commited to raising that continent up from the dust,you would have solved 80% of the problem.Now you are right when you talk about the influences of outside powers.The one i think is the most damaging is the IMF and the world bank.Those two institutions have done more than their fair share of damage to the continent but it also relates to my earlier point and that is that the corrupt governments have sold the souls of the people who they are supposed to be representing to the highest bidder.

[afrographX]

interesting topic!

what would interest me is where you see the perspective for nigeria or other african countries who have simliar problems? you say that there are people who could manage to push nigeria forward but that there are the wrong people in power. if you look at the 2003 elections it seems as if these good people don't really have a chance to gain more influence in the present political system and environment in Nigeria. so if it's hopeless to attempt to get in control inside the system how else can they get there. revolution? I don't think nigeria would profit of more fighting. help from the industrialized world? certainly not, since they don't have any interest in a strong independent nigeria.



here's an article I found, it's a nice example for the priorities in the africa politics of the industrialized countries, in this case the USA:



NIGERIA: U.S. offers military help to protect offshore oil

ABUJA, 13 Jul 2004 (IRIN) - The United States, keen to develop new sources of oil supply outside the Middle East, has offered to help Nigeria protect the flow of oil in the Gulf of Guinea and combat terrorist attacks on the oil industry, officials said.

The Gulf of Guinea, stretching from Liberia in the west to Angola in the south, currently provides about 15 percent of U.S. oil supplies. That share is expected to grow to 25 percent by 2015, according to a recent report commissioned for the U.S. Congress.

The deputy commander of the U.S. European Command, General Charles Wald, met Roland Oritsejafor, a Nigerian junior defence minister and other military chiefs in the capital Abuja on Monday. They discussed how the United States could help Nigeria, West Africa's regional superpower and largest oil producer, to improve security for the oil industry throughout the region.

“We talked with Nigerian military leaders about having a way that we could cooperate together in monitoring the waters of the Gulf of Guinea,” Wald told reporters afterwards although he gave no further details.

The British publication Jane's Defence Weekly reported earlier this year that Washington wanted to relaunch the African Coastal Security Programme to improve the capability of the navies and coastguard services of African governments and combat piracy.

It quoted US military officials as saying that in return, America would like to have access to rudimentary bases for military training and operations in the event of crisis.

Nigeria is Africa’s most populous country with 126 million people and is also the continent’s biggest oil exporter, ranking seventh in global terms. Nearly two-thirds of Nigeria's entire oil production of about 2.5 million barrels per day goes to the United States.

However, organised gangs steal about 10 percent of Nigeria's output and export it illegally. Frequent clashes involving ethnic militias and the security forces in the oil producing Niger Delta region have disrupted production. Foreign oil companies have often found themselves directly targeted.

Their employees have often been taken hostage and last April seven people, including two U.S. oil workers, were killed during an attack by militants on a boat belonging to oil firm ChevronTexaco.

Following his talks with General Wald, the Nigerian junior defence minister indicated the readiness of President Olusegun Obasanjo’s government to cooperate with Washington to improve security in the Gulf of Guinea, which contains about 10 percent of the world's known oil reserves.

“Where you have wealth, if you don't protect it, you are vulnerable to terrorism and illegal arms dealers and so you are not safe,” Oritsejafor said.

“So all countries who believe in global peace and stability must at one point come together and say no to evil. And that is the point we are gradually getting to,” he added.

Last month, news reports from Nigeria and the United States quoted diplomats and US government officials as saying that Washington planned to deploy a naval force led by an aircraft carrier in the Gulf of Guinea during the coming months to conduct exercises and raise the US military profile in the region.

Besides Nigeria, the other major oil-producing countries in the Gulf of Guinea are Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Congo-Brazzaville and Gabon. Landlocked Chad began exporting oil last year to an export terminal on the coast of Cameroon.

The small island state of Sao Tome and Principe is about to develop potentially huge offshore oilfields in conjunction with Nigeria and is attracting increasing interest from Washington.

Earlier this year, the United States agreed to finance feasibility studies for extending the runway of Sao Tome's international airport and building a deep water port on the island.


source: http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=42166&SelectRegion=West_Africa&SelectCountry=NIGERIA