Peace between India and Pakistan

[MPNFL]

why is this not possible?

Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions.

and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies? Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing.

naive? maybe. impossible? absolutely not.

thoughts? please no flame thread.

[pg_ord]

It is not about Hindu Vs Muslims. It is about Islamic exclusivism. Go back and read what Quaid-e-Azam wanted and then we can debate. ;) ..... That being said Minorities in India are better off compared to Minorities in Pakistan.

[MPNFL]

It is not about Hindu Vs Muslims. It is about Islamic exclusivism. Go back and read what Quaid-e-Azam wanted and then we can debate. ;) ..... That being said Minorities in India are better off compared to Minorities in Pakistan.

all hurdles that can be dealt with over time.

and yes I do agree that Quaid - e - Azam's vision of a secular Pakistan must be realized.

[Clockwinder]

Umm - Big reason - as always money and religion. Pakistan is Muslim - it (and Bangladesh) were created at the end of the British Raj. Look at some history re the creation of the Pakistan state and you will see what the fuss is about. The Brits (in their usual fashion) failed to settle the different claims of both for the Punjab region, and left! Let them sort it out - we're done! Whato, Pip Pip.
There will never be a true peace between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. The Muslims cannot abide any relgion but theirs.

[MPNFL]

Umm - Big reason - as always money and religion. Pakistan is Muslim - it (and Bangladesh) were created at the end of the British Raj. Look at some history re the creation of the Pakistan state and you will see what the fuss is about. The Brits (in their usual fashion) failed to settle the different claims of both for the Punjab region, and left! Let them sort it out - we're done! Whato, Pip Pip.
There will never be a true peace between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. The Muslims cannot abide any relgion but theirs.

I disagree. We're not talking about Arabs and Israelis. Indians and Pakistanis more or less share the same cultural (desi), which I believe drives both people more then their religious identity.

plus both people eat biryani:

http://lifeismystery.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/chicken_biryani.jpg

hehe

[Clockwinder]

I disagree. We're not talking about Arabs and Israelis. Indians and Pakistanis more or less share the same cultural (desi), which I believe drives both people more then their religious identity.

plus both people eat biryani:

hehe

Ahh if only we could all just get along! Indians and Pakistanis ARE the same people - they were all Indian until 1947. It was a diplomatic act that created the state of Pakistan and forcibly repatriated Muslims there. The ethnic (religious) cleansing involved was epic, and memories are long. The Punjab is merely an excuse.

[pg_ord]

all hurdles that can be dealt with over time.

and yes I do agree that Quaid - e - Azam's vision of a secular Pakistan must be realized.
rofl how can you be secular and still be called "Islamic Republic" ?....... point is not about what is being said by Pakistanis..... but what is being done on the ground. Pakistan since its inception has said the right things but has done the exact opposite..

[Blue P]

indian constitution part 1


PART I
THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY
1. Name and territory of the Union.—(1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.
(3) The territory of India shall comprise—
(a) the territories of the States;
(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and
(c) such other territories as may be acquired.
2. Admission or establishment of new States.—it has stated clearly, that india is a expansionism country, and the it has the ambition to invade and occupy lands from its neighbours, since no country in this world would allow its land to be peacefully 'acquired' the other.

peace with india? possible, but only if your country is far from its border.

[pg_ord]

Now coming back to this BS called "Shared Values" and "culture"..... thats is total hogwash being peddled around. Yes we are are all of sub continental stock ..... but tell that to Pakistanis who think are decendents of Arabs. p-)
..........
Nobody really knows what exactly this shared culture is :cantbeli:..... except may be some things which are common between Punjabi Muslims on Pakistani side and Punjabis on Indian side.
Just because Indians understand Pakistanis, it doesnt mean they share a single culture and values.

[dredger14]

indian constitution part 1

it has stated clearly, that india is a expansionism country, and the it has the ambition to invade and occupy lands from its neighbours, since no country in this world would allow its land to be peacefully 'acquired' the other.

peace with india? possible, but only if your country is far from its border.


It refers to Goa, Daman and Diu why don't you stick your nose in that dark, narrow recess where it belongs. Hypocrite and shameless Chicoms lecturing about expansionism to a country after gifting nukes and ballistic missiles to its neighbours.

[Blue P]

It refers to Goa, Daman and Diu why don't you stick your nose in that dark, narrow recess where it belongs. Hypocrite and shameless Chicoms lecturing about expansionism to a country after gifting nukes and ballistic missiles to its neighbours.

you are really mad at chinese for preventing you from bullying pakistan with nukes right?rofl

[pg_ord]

you are really mad at chinese for preventing you from bullying pakistan with nukes right?rofl

Indians are only too happy that Pakistan has nukes..... Pakistan is no longer only India's problem. It is the entire world's problem. :)

[dredger14]

why is this not possible?

Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? please read up on sub-continental politics, politicians on both sides of the border exploit this-it exists they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions. In 47' maybe, today, pakistani culture is more Middle-Eastern/Arab, almost all "Indian/Hindu influences have been rubbed out in an attempt to be different"

and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies? Don't you get it, if the people of India were really united as you naively think, partition would never have happened. Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing.
Kashmir holds the water supply of North-Western India and all the fertile parts of Pakistan, india will never give it up to a smaller, weaker country, also the worst of the insurgency has long past

naive? maybe. impossible? absolutely not.

thoughts? please no flame thread.

Please do some more research on the topic, today the two countries, notwithstanding the rubbish put out by the delusional liberals are greatly distinct.

[dredger14]

you are really mad at chinese for preventing you from bullying pakistan with nukes right?rofl

I think it is the Chinese that have belatedly realized that it can no longer bully India..
Chinese trolls are really delusional when it comes to two things:-
1. India will peacefully or quietly give away Arunachal Pradesh to China or India will suffer a conventional defeat(not possible but theoretical) and China will gain A.P.
2. Pakistan will nuke India and Chinese cities will remain untouched.

In both cases the worst case scenario is all major Chinese cities becoming giant glass bowls due of Indian nuclear retribution.

There goes the question on bullying.

[Blue P]

Indians are only too happy that Pakistan has nukes..... Pakistan is no longer only India's problem. It is the entire world's problem. :)

now i'm a little bit confused here. if you are happy about a nuclear armed pakistan, why do you indians cry so much about it?

[dredger14]

now i'm a little bit confused here. if you are happy about a nuclear armed pakistan, why do you indians cry so much about it?

LOL Chinese people outside the CCP never have to think hard about these things...:)
Knowing how fluid the situation in Pakistan is and how AQ Kahn proliferated Chinese designs to other countries, you might get a dirty bomb courtesy Al-Qaeda in Turkestan.

[Blue P]

I think it is the Chinese that have belatedly realized that it can no longer bully India..
Chinese trolls are really delusional when it comes to two things:-
1. India will peacefully or quietly give away Arunachal Pradesh to China or India will suffer a conventional defeat(not possible but theoretical) and China will gain A.P.
2. Pakistan will nuke India and Chinese cities will remain untouched.

In both cases the worst case scenario is all major Chinese cities becoming giant glass bowls due of Indian nuclear retribution.

There goes the question on bullying.

here goes the nuclear blackmail again.

i cant even image what could have happened if chinese hadn't got nuclear weapons (decades) before indian did.

your expansionism constitution has obviously served you well, indian.

[Universals]

I vote for peace.

Open more Indian cuisines in Pakistan. I think Curry chicken will do the magic p-)

[dredger14]

here goes the nuclear blackmail again.

i cant even image what could have happened if chinese hadn't got nuclear weapons (decades) before indian did.

your expansionism constitution has obviously served you well, indian.

Whoa! playing the victim now eh.. consider it karma for the proliferate-while-you wait. Should have thought about possible retribution before gifting stuff.. HEHEHE!!
Chicoms talking about Nuclear blackmail LOL!!

The west will capitalize on Indo-Chinese rivalry till the hilt. The nuke-deal was just the beginning, more will follow.


I vote for peace.

Open more Indian cuisines in Pakistan. I think Curry chicken will do the magic
Chicken curry is a generic term for about a few hundred odd dishes each distinct from the other from state to state. What you ate was probably not even authentic Indian cuisine--no sophistication and overwhelming flavors of spice--> toy food for westerners worse than Americanized Cantonese cuisine.

[Blue P]

I vote for peace.

Open more Indian cuisines in Pakistan. I think Curry chicken will do the magic p-)

off the topic, i used to love it. but i was farting like crazy everytime after eating it.:oops:

[manberries]

All those who state India and Pakistan are the same people, culture, or anything else related beyond geography must not know much about either places. While geographically bordered, India and Pakistan is the line between two different "demi-cultures" as previously mentioned. India belongs far more to the Asian culture, with its own VERY distinct regional culture. Pakistan belongs to the Mid East and Muslim demi-culture. Pakistanis did not grow out of the Indian population, they settled there during Muslim expansion periods and due to trade. The basis for the Indian people is the Indus Valley civilization start, one of the main places where humanity started civilization. Pakistanis come from the Sumerian civilization start. There are some people that may blur the lines, but the aggregate of both countries follow this.

As for why there cannot be peace? This is because peace brings us little. Hostile competition between India and Pakistan has awarded both countries with billions in cash and even more in technology. If it were not for the cold war (and its continuation now) the major powers of the world would have never invested in either country. If it were not for the competition for resources that played perfectly into the hands of the global competition between West and East, neither India nor Pakistan would have nuclear power. It is not a coincidence that the Indian and Paki militaries are filled with American, Chinese and Russian equipment. Combine this is the arguments over Paki drug trade, and the years of genocidal violence between the two and you have a never ending fight. Even today, China supports the Paki military to destabilize India, the US invests massive amounts into its civilian industry, and Russia has supplied India with its best ships, submarines, planes, and tanks. The simple summary is that neither side has anything to benefit from spooning each other. Few wars are more beneficial than these cold wars, so long as the nukes stay where they are it will be beneficial for the parties involved.

[Blue P]

Whoa! playing the victim now eh.. consider it karma for the proliferate-while-you wait. Should have thought about possible retribution before gifting stuff.. HEHEHE!!
Chicoms talking about Nuclear blackmail LOL!!

The west will capitalize on Indo-Chinese rivalry till the hilt. The nuke-deal was just the beginning, more will follow.

crying again?

bad bad evil chicom gave pakistani islam extremist nukes, you are bad! you are bad! come on, indian, don't you have anything new to show?

[dredger14]

crying again?

bad bad evil chicom gave pakistani islam extremist nukes, you are bad! you are bad! come on, indian, don't you have anything new to show?

Oh this is my "Yindoo expansionist technique to upset noble Chinese person". Always scheming cunning Yindu at expense of noble Chinese, just like those evil Japanese.

This is conspilacy I terr you!!:)

[dredger14]

All those who state India and Pakistan are the same people, culture, or anything else related beyond geography must not know much about either places. While geographically bordered, India and Pakistan is the line between two different "demi-cultures" as previously mentioned. India belongs far more to the Asian culture, with its own VERY distinct regional culture. Pakistan belongs to the Mid East and Muslim demi-culture. Pakistanis did not grow out of the Indian population, they settled there during Muslim expansion periods and due to trade. The basis for the Indian people is the Indus Valley civilization start, one of the main places where humanity started civilization. Pakistanis come from the Sumerian civilization start(LOL STFU please!!). There are some people that may blur the lines, but the aggregate of both countries follow this.

As for why there cannot be peace? This is because peace brings us little. Hostile competition between India and Pakistan has awarded both countries with billions in cash and even more in technology. If it were not for the cold war (and its continuation now) the major powers of the world would have never invested in either country. If it were not for the competition for resources that played perfectly into the hands of the global competition between West and East, neither India nor Pakistan would have nuclear power. It is not a coincidence that the Indian and Paki militaries are filled with American, Chinese and Russian equipment. Combine this is the arguments over Paki drug trade, and the years of genocidal violence between the two and you have a never ending fight. Even today, China supports the Paki military to destabilize India, the US invests massive amounts into its civilian industry, and Russia has supplied India with its best ships, submarines, planes, and tanks. The simple summary is that neither side has anything to benefit from spooning each other. Few wars are more beneficial than these cold wars, so long as the nukes stay where they are it will be beneficial for the parties involved.

I agree with almost everything, you've said even though I can sense the western tinge to it..

[ggk]

the state of peace are cheaper than the state of war (or cold war)...if anyone have any sense (economic wise) they should realise this.... plus im craving for a whole roasted lamb with beryani.

[Blue P]

Oh this is my "Yindoo expansionist technique to upset noble Chinese person". Always scheming cunning Yindu at expense of noble Chinese, just like those evil Japanese.

This is conspilacy I terr you!!:)

actually, i'm a big fan of japanese culture. and have great respect to their tridition of hard working.

on the other hand, the elitism of the neighbour on the south makes me really sick. don't even mention its baseless self-admiring, while more than 20% of its population is constantly fighting starvation.

[manberries]

the state of peace are cheaper than the state of war (or cold war)...if anyone have any sense (economic wise) they should realise this.... plus im craving for a whole roasted lamb with beryani.

My only response to this is to look at the true GDP and GNP growth of the US and USSR during the times from 1939-1993 and compare it to any other time with any other country. In case you do not wish to, it was the biggest economic growth (BY FAR) humanity ever experienced.

[manberries]

I agree with almost everything, you've said even though I can sense the western tinge to it..

Well, it is hard to give an evaluation when your study of the situation was always in terms of how it affected the Cold War and specifically the US. Ethnic window is that name, or something along those lines.

[ggk]

My only response to this is to look at the true GDP and GNP growth of the US and USSR during the times from 1939-1993 and compare it to any other time with any other country. In case you do not wish to, it was the biggest economic growth (BY FAR) humanity ever experienced.

yes the biggest economic baloon ever.....and the soviet burst first.

[dredger14]

actually, i'm a big fan of japanese culture. and have great respect to their tridition of hard working.

on the other hand, the elitism of the neighbour on the south makes me really sick. don't even mention its baseless self-admiring, while more than 20% of its population is constantly fighting starvation.

Elitism!! LOL Having known the opinions of many Japanese and Koreans towards your country, I can tell you to shove those words where the sun don't shine. Knowing what racist comments the Chinese media makes regularly towards Indians, I feel you are being nothing but a pathetic lying little hypocrite.

Most Chinese that hate India/Indians do so simply because the latter refuses to give China the "face" Chinese think their country deserves solely due to its strong economy.
Other Chinese find it hard to stomach hostility from a country they feel they never offended or paid much attention to. Hence they retaliate in the only way their culture teaches them to--i.e to "hate back".

[manberries]

yes the biggest economic baloon ever.....and the soviet burst first.

Sorry, thousands of industrial complex's, roads, schools, and hospitals do not constitute a bubble. Even with the economic collapse of the USSR Russia's economy is still larger than if it expanded at the rate seen in 1910-20. Not to mention Russia's fast resurgence of power and wealth only 15 years after. The Cold War's economic boom is not temporary, nor will its positive effects on humanity ever disappear. It is the nature of economy to have ups and down, and it has been proven that it is better to have great ups and fewer great downs (as we have now) than a having a constant increase. The 3 billion year countdown is ticking after all.

EDIT: However, this is not a debate about the socioeconomic results of the Cold War. Since we both use this as our examples to contest if war assists economy, I say we must leave it up in the air as a disagreement. Simply because we should not hijack the thread to debate some sub-point.

[Blue P]

Elitism!! LOL Having known the opinions of many Japanese and Koreans towards your country, I can tell you to shove those words where the sun don't shine. Knowing what racist comments the Chinese media makes regularly towards Indians, I feel you are being nothing but a pathetic lying little hypocrite.

Most Chinese hate India/Indians simply because the latter refuses to give China the "face" Chinese think their country deserves solely due to its strong economy.
Other Chinese find it hard to stomach hostility from a country they feel they never offended or paid much attention to. Hence they retaliate in the only way their culture teaches them to--i.e to "hate back".

i highlighted the reality for you p-)

[dredger14]

i highlighted the reality for you p-)

LOL Please don't ever pay any attention to Arunachal Pradesh and the Old Man then, it would be better for both countries it that were true.
What are you doing here then, sonny why aren't you part of the statistic??:) don't peddle that crap to me:)

You've just proved my point anyway... especially the last part:)

[ggk]

Sorry, thousands of industrial complex's, roads, schools, and hospitals do not constitute a bubble. Even with the economic collapse of the USSR Russia's economy is still larger than if it expanded at the rate seen in 1910-20. Not to mention Russia's fast resurgence of power and wealth only 15 years after. The Cold War's economic boom is not temporary, nor will its positive effects on humanity ever disappear. It is the nature of economy to have ups and down, and it has been proven that it is better to have great ups and fewer great downs (as we have now) than a having a constant increase. The 3 billion year countdown is ticking after all.

what ever consequenses that occured between soviet and US doesnt mirrored to Pakistan and India.

agree offtopic.

[Blue P]

LOL Please don't ever pay any attention to Arunachal Pradesh and the Old Man then, it would be better for both countries it that were true.
What are you doing here then, sonny why aren't you part of the statistic??:) don't peddle that crap to me:)

You've just proved my point anyway... especially the last part:)

the reason i am here


the elitism of the neighbour on the south makes me really sick. don't even mention its baseless self-admiring, while more than 20% of its population is constantly fighting starvation.

[manberries]

Well, I shall restate my point using present events and not try to form an idea that works in all situations as I did before. So the India vs Pakistan specific point is that India has used it position as a middle country between the politics of Russia and the US to get the best both offer. This includes US private investors who have much to do with Indians economy as a whole, and it includes Russia in the manner that India now has Russian Naval Yards building ships for them that are far more advanced than India previously had. That example continues because Russia has also helped India design these ships, helped them build some ships and submarines of their own, and basically directly armed the best the Indian military has to offer. Pakistan is much the same in the way that it straddles the fence between two major powers. Pakistan receives much military and economic aid from the US, specifically regarding the war on terror. At the same time, much of Pakistan's airforce is Chinese built. The final and most potent idea being that the US and UK are quite responsible for the nuclear armament of Pakistan and India. With trillions in economic growth, and both militaries brought into the 21st century by their own conflict being used by external powers to fight other (sometimes related) conflicts it is hard not to say both countries have benefited from the now cold war between them.

[dredger14]

the reason i am here

Oh nobre Jackie Chung here because 20% of Yindu starve, nobre intention onrry:)

Sod off!! you ain't fooling anyone you little troll!


Well, I shall restate my point using present events and not try to form an idea that works in all situations as I did before. So the India vs Pakistan specific point is that India has used it position as a middle country between the politics of Russia and the US to get the best both offer. This includes US private investors who have much to do with Indians economy as a whole, and it includes Russia in the manner that India now has Russian Naval Yards building ships for them that are far more advanced than India previously had. That example continues because Russia has also helped India design these ships, helped them build some ships and submarines of their own, and basically directly armed the best the Indian military has to offer. Pakistan is much the same in the way that it straddles the fence between two major powers. Pakistan receives much military and economic aid from the US, specifically regarding the war on terror. At the same time, much of Pakistan's airforce is Chinese built. The final and most potent idea being that the US and UK are quite responsible for the nuclear armament of Pakistan and India. With trillions in economic growth, and both militaries brought into the 21st century by their own conflict being used by external powers to fight other (sometimes related) conflicts it is hard not to say both countries have benefited from the now cold war between them.

Except that India pays through its nose for every single thing it buys. India never received no free military aid since way back in 62'. Hence the comparison is rubbish mate, though I sort of agree about the Cold War dynamics part, where both said countries were satellite states of the major players.
The US and Russia aren't giving India anything for free, yeah maybe some exclusivity is on offer here but no free deals, that in turn will ultmately benefit the vendor. The US desperately wants India to become an alternative to manufacturing in China, most high tech industries are outsourced to India, Raytheon, GE, SAAB aerospace etc, where copyrights are respected and certain laws pertaining to intellectual properties are followed.

[manberries]

Oh nobre Jackie Chung here because 20% of Yindu starve, nobre intention onrry:)

Sod off!! you ain't fooling anyone you little troll!

Way off topic here, but why do you do a John Wayne impression in all of your posts?

[dredger14]

Way off topic here, but why do you do a John Wayne impression in all of your posts?

Sarcasm is the elixir of the gods when it comes to dealing with worthless imbeciles..:) Most entertaining!!

[Infanteer Two Seven]

All those who state India and Pakistan are the same people, culture, or anything else related beyond geography must not know much about either places. While geographically bordered, India and Pakistan is the line between two different "demi-cultures" as previously mentioned. India belongs far more to the Asian culture, with its own VERY distinct regional culture. Pakistan belongs to the Mid East and Muslim demi-culture. Pakistanis did not grow out of the Indian population, they settled there during Muslim expansion periods and due to trade. The basis for the Indian people is the Indus Valley civilization start, one of the main places where humanity started civilization. Pakistanis come from the Sumerian civilization start. There are some people that may blur the lines, but the aggregate of both countries follow this.

As for why there cannot be peace? This is because peace brings us little. Hostile competition between India and Pakistan has awarded both countries with billions in cash and even more in technology. If it were not for the cold war (and its continuation now) the major powers of the world would have never invested in either country. If it were not for the competition for resources that played perfectly into the hands of the global competition between West and East, neither India nor Pakistan would have nuclear power. It is not a coincidence that the Indian and Paki militaries are filled with American, Chinese and Russian equipment. Combine this is the arguments over Paki drug trade, and the years of genocidal violence between the two and you have a never ending fight. Even today, China supports the Paki military to destabilize India, the US invests massive amounts into its civilian industry, and Russia has supplied India with its best ships, submarines, planes, and tanks. The simple summary is that neither side has anything to benefit from spooning each other. Few wars are more beneficial than these cold wars, so long as the nukes stay where they are it will be beneficial for the parties involved.

COOL story bro

[Blue P]

Sarcasm is the elixir of the gods when it comes to dealing with worthless imbeciles..:) Most entertaining!!

and you are laughing while the number of starving indians comes to a stunning figure of 20+% of your total population :cantbeli:

god bless normal indians. they really need it to save themselves from their ruling elites.

[manberries]

COOL story bro

Why are there so many people that this seems overwhelming to? It is basic ancient history. The world only had 6 or so separate civilization starters. Every other civilization can be tracked to one of those first moments where nomadic man became city building man. Each of these areas split the worlds cultures into truly distinct parts and ideas; generally into the languages also. The major exception being India, but that is only because of the Aryan invasion. Therefore, citing that they come from different beginnings shows they are different people. That is high school history fellas.

[Infanteer Two Seven]

and you are laughing while the number of starving indians comes to a stunning figure of 20+% of your total population :cantbeli:

god bless normal indians. they really need it to save themselves from their ruling elites.

This thread isn't about china lets cool it.

[Infanteer Two Seven]

^ Why are there so many people that this seems overwhelming to? It is basic ancient history. The world only had 6 or so separate civilization starters. Every other civilization can be tracked to one of those first moments where nomadic man became city building man. Each of these areas split the worlds cultures into truly distinct parts and ideas; generally into the languages also. The major exception being India, but that is only because of the Aryan invasion. Therefore, citing that they come from different beginnings shows they are different people. That is high school history fellas.

Sumerian culture is no where close to aryan culture.
if anything its close to dravidic/semetic culture. if anything Aryans are barbarians. btw most Pakistanis are closely related to Indians then any other country. so NO you are not a decedent of Sumerians iraqi's are.

[dredger14]

and you are laughing while the number of starving indians comes to a stunning figure of 20+% of your total population :cantbeli:

god bless normal indians. they really need it to save themselves from their ruling elites.

The Middle Kingdom!!
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/
POT-KETTLE-BLACK!!
Where are the ruling elites??

[dredger14]

Why are there so many people that this seems overwhelming to? It is basic ancient history. The world only had 6 or so separate civilization starters. Every other civilization can be tracked to one of those first moments where nomadic man became city building man. Each of these areas split the worlds cultures into truly distinct parts and ideas; generally into the languages also. The major exception being India, but that is only because of the Aryan invasion. Therefore, citing that they come from different beginnings shows they are different people. That is high school history fellas.

Modern Indian culture is an Aryan-Dravidian mix, the only other Aryan civilization were the "Zoroastrian" Persians. Hitler and the rest of the "AIR-YEN" crew were blowing air out their backsides when they stole both the symbol and the name(Swastik) from India. Germanic and Caucasian people ARE NOT Aryan(ARE-YEN is the correct ****unciation). The only surviving Aryan culture is Hindu culture in India.
Pakistani culture and values are distinctly Middle-Eastern...

[Blue P]

The Middle Kingdom!!
http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/ (http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/)
POT-KETTLE-BLACK!!
Where are the ruling elites??

nice try :bash:, and watch for a tea break： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYpvnM
since you elite don't feel for your people, you might found it pretty entertainning.


Modern Indian culture is an Aryan-Dravidian mix, the only other Aryan civilization were the "Zoroastrian" Persians. Hitler and the rest of the "AIR-YEN" crew were blowing air out their backsides when they stole both the symbol and the name(Swastik) from India. Germanic and Caucasian people ARE NOT Aryan(ARE-YEN is the correct ****unciation). The only surviving Aryan culture is Hindu culture in India.
Pakistani culture and values are distinctly Middle-Eastern... does this illusion lead you to the conclusion that indians are superior over pakistanis?

[pg_ord]

All those who state India and Pakistan are the same people, culture, or anything else related beyond geography must not know much about either places. While geographically bordered, India and Pakistan is the line between two different "demi-cultures" as previously mentioned. India belongs far more to the Asian culture, with its own VERY distinct regional culture. Pakistan belongs to the Mid East and Muslim demi-culture. Pakistanis did not grow out of the Indian population, they settled there during Muslim expansion periods and due to trade. The basis for the Indian people is the Indus Valley civilization start, one of the main places where humanity started civilization. Pakistanis come from the Sumerian civilization start. There are some people that may blur the lines, but the aggregate of both countries follow this.

As for why there cannot be peace? This is because peace brings us little. Hostile competition between India and Pakistan has awarded both countries with billions in cash and even more in technology. If it were not for the cold war (and its continuation now) the major powers of the world would have never invested in either country. If it were not for the competition for resources that played perfectly into the hands of the global competition between West and East, neither India nor Pakistan would have nuclear power. It is not a coincidence that the Indian and Paki militaries are filled with American, Chinese and Russian equipment. Combine this is the arguments over Paki drug trade, and the years of genocidal violence between the two and you have a never ending fight. Even today, China supports the Paki military to destabilize India, the US invests massive amounts into its civilian industry, and Russia has supplied India with its best ships, submarines, planes, and tanks. The simple summary is that neither side has anything to benefit from spooning each other. Few wars are more beneficial than these cold wars, so long as the nukes stay where they are it will be beneficial for the parties involved.
Agree with almost everything except the highlighted part.
Yes, people who think India and Pakistan share common values and culture and should "get along" if Kashmir issue is "solved" know jack sh!t about cultural differences and do not appreciated the ideological differences the two have.
At the core of Pakistani hatred towards Indians is the question of a distinct identity.....which has made them borrow culture from the middle east over the last 60+ years of their existence.

[pg_ord]

does this illusion lead you to the conclusion that indians are superior over pakistanis?
Who said anybody being superior and inferior?.....Nice try, troll some moaaaar. :roll:

[manberries]

Modern Indian culture is an Aryan-Dravidian mix, the only other Aryan civilization were the "Zoroastrian" Persians. Hitler and the rest of the "AIR-YEN" crew were blowing air out their backsides when they stole both the symbol and the name(Swastik) from India. Germanic and Caucasian people ARE NOT Aryan(ARE-YEN is the correct ****unciation). The only surviving Aryan culture is Hindu culture in India.
Pakistani culture and values are distinctly Middle-Eastern...

Not true, the Aryans came from one of the starter civilizations that is currently contested to exist. This is the Russian Caucus civilization start. The Aryans, Hyksos, Hittites, and the rest of the Europeans are believed to come from this area. Meaning that the first civilization that eventually became Germany comes from the same area that the Aryans did. The point of that reference was that European and Indian languages actually fall under the same branch of Indo-European. This is the only exception to the separate cultures and languages rule. While the original Indus people's language was nothing like European languages are, the Aryans changed that culture to the point where there are more similarities than other examples show. In short, Russian Caucus people are Aryans (at least some) and were so before Indians were influenced by the Aryans.

[Blue P]

Who said anybody being superior and inferior?.....Nice try, troll some moaaaar. :roll:

label my question as troll so there would be no need to answer it? you indians do have some interesting tricks.p-)

[dredger14]

does this illusion lead you to the conclusion that indians are superior over pakistanis?

Allright!!

[manberries]

Agree with almost everything except the highlighted part.
Yes, people who think India and Pakistan share common values and culture and should "get along" if Kashmir issue is "solved" know jack sh!t about cultural differences and do not appreciated the ideological differences the two have.
At the core of Pakistani hatred towards Indians is the question of a distinct identity.....which has made them borrow culture from the middle east over the last 60+ years of their existence.

It is quite a quagmire to say definitively who Pakistan belongs to. However, noting that modern Pakistanis by in far have heritage stemming from the Mid East and the Mongols, while compared to many Indians who's roots go only back to India, it is fair to say they are not the same people. Especially to the point that they were just as different when India split as they are today.

[manberries]

EDIT: Go to fix a typo, and it double posts on ya. *sigh*

[dredger14]

Not true, the Aryans came from one of the starter civilizations that is currently contested to exist. This is the Russian Caucus civilization start. The Aryans, Hyksos, Hittites, and the rest of the Europeans are believed to come from this area. Meaning that the first civilization that eventually became Germany comes from the same area that the Aryans did. The point of that reference was that European and Indian languages actually fall under the same branch of Indo-European. This is the only exception to the separate cultures and languages rule. While the original Indus people's language was nothing like European languages are, the Aryans changed that culture to the point where there are more similarities than other examples show. In short, Russian Caucus people are Aryans (at least some) and were so before Indians were influenced by the Aryans.

I am not getting into this discussion, just tell me why they called it the "SWASTIKA(Sanskrit word)" and not some indigenous Germanic word since they were Aryan too??

Aryan=/= Pre-Christian paganism.

[ggk]

wrong title.

should be : China versus India

[dredger14]

wrong title.

should be : China versus India

refer to #52:)

[Blue P]

you cant surprised me by going any lower, indian. but would you people stop jeopardising modern societies by spread your uncivilized caste crap?
look at this in UK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgplau6JTU

[manberries]

I am not getting into this discussion, just tell me why they called it the "SWASTIKA(Sanskrit word)" and not some indigenous Germanic word since they were Aryan too??

Aryan=/= Pre-Christian paganism.

That is what is became known as. We have no official sources on the Aryan language, only India was greatly influenced by their language. As a major trade route, India was vastly exposed to Sanskrit, and thus it became that. Greece was its own civilization, and so were the Celts. Despite this both have Sanskrit words in them, even Japanese has Sanskirt influences. There is no genetic or anthropological evidence to suggest the Aryans as a people were born from Sumeria. Meaning post civilization. Of course, all of us originated from a small area, but what I talk of is civilization.

Also, I am not arguing whether or not Germany properly used their reference to the Aryans or not. The point is that Aryans came from the Caucus of Russia.

[dredger14]

@Blue P
Pathetic really!!

[pg_ord]

It is quite a quagmire to say definitively who Pakistan belongs to. However, noting that modern Pakistanis by in far have heritage stemming from the Mid East and the Mongols, while compared to many Indians who's roots go only back to India, it is fair to say they are not the same people. Especially to the point that they were just as different when India split as they are today.

The logic is simple for Pakistanis though ;)
Pakistan == Islam == Pakistan== Good.
Everybody else == Bad.
Beyond that their mind goes blank.
yet another article from today's newspaper.

http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=209348

We are a nation that unquestionably swallows the unsubstantiated rants of Zaid Hamid, Ahmed Quraishi and their ilk. Zaid Hamid sees the world through a Zionist prism, while I advise you to check out ahmedquraishi.com to check out the quality of his 'photo journalism'.

We are a nation where pop stars like Ali Azmat believe that "we know for a fact that all this turbulation (not a world, Ali) in Pakistan it's not us, but outside hand" and who says that the Taliban is not responsible for blowing up 200 girls schools, but it's the work of an unidentified foreign hand. Show me the evidence, Ali? Where are the 'facts' you talk about?

Ironically, it is these very people who hark back the loudest, and bemoan the most, the loss of the Islamic world's glory days -- when Muslims were pioneers at the forefront of scientific, architectural, astronomical, and mathematical advances in the world. But you only can be pioneers when using knowledge, reason, logic and a factually supporting argument. The Taj Mahal was not built on a conspiracy theory or by obtaining a forged website doctoral degree. Yet, we listen to and follow the stupid?

[Chulo]

Umm - Big reason - as always money and religion. Pakistan is Muslim - it (and Bangladesh) were created at the end of the British Raj. Look at some history re the creation of the Pakistan state and you will see what the fuss is about. The Brits (in their usual fashion) failed to settle the different claims of both for the Punjab region, and left! Let them sort it out - we're done! Whato, Pip Pip.
There will never be a true peace between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. The Muslims cannot abide any relgion but theirs.
India has 160,945,000 Muslims , and is in the top 5. They have been doing quite well living in India.

[dredger14]

That is what is became known as. We have no official sources on the Aryan language, 1.only India was greatly influenced by their language. As a major trade route,2. India was vastly exposed to Sanskrit, and 3.thus it became that. Greece was its own civilization, and so were the Celts. Despite this both have Sanskrit words in them, even 4.Japanese has Sanskirt influences. There is no genetic or 5.anthropological evidence to suggest the Aryans as a people were born from Sumeria. Meaning post civilization. 6.Of course, all of us originated from a small area, but what I talk of is civilization.

Also, 7.I am not arguing whether or not Germany properly used their reference to the Aryans or not. The point is that Aryans came from the Caucus of Russia.

1. Aryan culture is native to the Indo-Persian area.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
2. Sanskrit originated in India from an older proto-Indo-Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_language
3. Though the Indians(more specifically the Mauryans, Nandas, Puriites) had a rather high opinion of Alexander(Skander), the greeks/Ionians (Yanvanas) were classified as "Mlecchas"(barbarians due to their non-compliance with the Aryan code.)
4. Spread of Buddhist Dharmic culture from India.
5. Sumeria, Babylonia, Assyria are all non-Aryan civilizations(do more research)
6. Africa(the Aryan theory of migration with which I strongly disagree) and evolution--yes all humans are from Africa.
7. Europeans though have "some" Aryan characteristics are a distinct people.

[Infanteer Two Seven]

1. Aryan culture is native to the Indo-Persian area.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
2. Sanskrit originated in India from an older proto-Indo-Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_language
3. Though the Indians(more specifically the Mauryans, Nandas, Puriites) had a rather high opinion of Alexander(Skander), the greeks/Ionians (Yanvanas) were classified as "Mlecchas"(barbarians due to their non-compliance with the Aryan code.)
4. Spread of Buddhist Dharmic culture from India.
5. Sumeria, Babylonia, Assyria are all non-Aryan civilizations(do more research)
6. Africa(the Aryan theory of migration with which I strongly disagree) and evolution--yes all humans are from Africa.
7. Europeans though have "some" Aryan characteristics are a distinct people.

i don't agree with your second point at all.
Sanskrit can never be from indo-proto-persian. maybe same group of family but not from persian never ever.

[dredger14]

i don't agree with your second point at all.
Sanskrit can never be from indo-proto-persian. maybe same group of family but not from persian never ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian_language

[JBH22]

all hurdles that can be dealt with over time.

and yes I do agree that Quaid - e - Azam's vision of a secular Pakistan must be realized.

Since independence Pakistan has fought with India 4times and also sponsored islamic insurgency since 1989 in kashmir.
Few people are happy unless they hate some other race,creed or nation.Bertrand Russell

[Infanteer Two Seven]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian_language

It says nothing about Persian at all.
Sanskrit is a classical language. it didn't come from anything it may belong to a certain group but i never evolved from anything.
BTW Wikipedia can be edited.

[dredger14]

It says nothing about Persian at all.
Sanskrit is a classical language. it didn't come from anything it may belong to a certain group but i never evolved from anything.
BTW Wikipedia can be edited.

Did you see the similarities of Sanskrit with Avestan, the oldest recorded predecessor of modern Persian, thats what I was trying to put across.

Interesting strain of Old Tamil--> Tamil Bramhi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Brahmi http://i48.tinypic.com/2b5qgh.jpg

[hulaku]

why is this not possible?
Nothing is actually impossible.


Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions.You cannot generalise that Hindus and Muslims dont like each other. It actually depends upon the kind of interaction they have with each other. And as mentioned here that a Pakistani Muslim Punjabi will get along better with an Indian Non-Muslim Punjabi than with say other Indians.



and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies? Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing.Now the creation of Pakistan caused immense suffering on both sides, including for people like personally. Im a Hindu-Sikh Punjabi and our anscestral village lies now in Pakistani Kashmir. In 1947 my anscestors shifted to Srinagar in Indian Kashmir. In 1990 we were again forced to leave Kashmir after the enforced cleansing of minorirties undertaken by the Pakistani backed Jihadis.A lot of families faced the turmoil of Partition but for some families like ours, we had to got through it twice.

Now this makes me a perfect candidate for hating Muslims to the core but the fact is that I dont. I grew up in a society in Kashmir as a minority in a Muslim dominated society. As it would be natural most of my friends were and are Muslims. I do agree that I have a deep hatred for Jihadis killing innocent people in the name of religion in any part of the world.

As far as Pakistan is concerned lets see. India and Pakistan came into being in 1947 due to reasons which Im sure everybody knows. Both faced the same challenges with whatever resources we had. And today where do both stand today? India is rated next to the Chinese as a powerhouse economy with growing global influence and Pakistan is rated alongwith Afghanistan as the next failed state.

India has been a mature democratic secular state whereas Pakistan, the Islamic state went through periods of Military dictatorships with brief intervals of democracy.

The problem with Pakistan lies in the fact that it considers itself the self proclaimed defender of Islam for reasons best known to them. The people have been given large doses of Islamic rhetoric to keep them united under the banner of Islam against the evil Kuffar of India. Even this concept of the bastion of Islam didnt really work when the Bangladeshis decided that they have had enough.

The day Pakistan stops looking at India through the colourful prism of fundamentalist Islam there would be hope for peace and till then it will keep drowning in the vortex of hate of their own creation.

As for Kashmir the best solution is turning the Line of Control into the actual border.

Just my 2 paise.

[Muzungu]

just for the record:

india and pakistan are two different nations with two different cultures and different people.

WE ARE NOT SAME!! GET THAT FVCK IN YOUR FVCKING HEAD!

though partition displaced many millions out of their homes and sadly many were killed.

dont hurt those souls, dont insult their deaths and their sacrifice by comparing pakistan with india.

i would not like to say anything further than this cause it evokes strong emotional sentiments.

[WingCommander]

As for Kashmir the best solution is turning the Line of Control into the actual border.

Never...kashmir belongs to India and we should not even let the pakis have 1cm of it officially. They are illegally controlling our part of kashmir. Our leader should be lined up against a wall and shot for not taking it back in the one of the previous wars when we had the upper hand. ****ing incompetent bastards.

Every day pakistan goes further down the shi*ter and that pleases me no end. They are reaping what they sowed and i say let them suffer. Let there country become the worst country in the world because it is there fault and majority of pakis are delusional and think everything is a plot by cia-raw-mossad.

I bet they get jealous when they peep across the border and try to destabilize our country. Thats why they try to alienate the muslim population in India by first planting bombs in temples and then in mosques so as to create communal tension. There leadership is bitter, jealous and have inferiority complex.

[Alok]

why is this not possible? Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions. and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies? Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing. naive? maybe. impossible? absolutely not. thoughts? please no flame thread. It is very much possible and will have to happen sooner than rather. I don't understand why so many are replying on the presumption that MPNFL is wishing for Indo-Pak merger. Even an Islamist Pakistan can live happily with secular India, provided Islamist Pakistan get rid of its anti India operations. It is very easy and possible.

[Muzungu]

i dont subscribe to the view that india should work for the stability of pakistan.

Infact India must not work for the stability of pakistan at all, it should be allowed to disintegrate!

if pakistan wants to go down the drain, let them. we need to factor in the spillover effects.

There maybe pressure on india to make concessions on J&K from the US since pakistan is helping(?) them in A-stan!

The peace dialogue with pakistan should continue if for nothing else but to create a facade that we are not shying away from talks.

If push comes to shove and we have to take some action, we should go ahead because even if pakistan escalates, we will be able to deal with that!

smaller de-nuclearised pakistan is in the best interest of india and the whole world!

[Muzungu]

why is this not possible?

Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions.

how can Hinduism and islam be same in desi culture, food and traditions? go and see how local cutlure in pakistan has been erased to replace it with 'islamic' culture and taditions!

and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies?

Pakistan was created out of hatred and separate religious country, they never wanted to live in secular india, they made their choice clear!

Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing.

ethenic cleansing of half a million Kashmiri Pandits from their homeland and you accept india to solve the issue? ask pakistan to vacate occupied J&K!

naive? maybe. impossible? absolutely not.

naive yes, impossible yes! ask pakistanis how J&K runs in their blood?

thoughts? please no flame thread

above are my thoughts, not flame!

JAI HIND

[Muzungu]

@Alok


It is very much possible and will have to happen sooner than rather.

read my lips> NEVER!

i would rather have four smaller states of former pakistan, de-nuclearised!

I don't understand why so many are replying on the presumption that MPNFL is wishing for Indo-Pak merger.

we are not living in a fools paradise, we are living in the real world where terrorists are trying to take over a nuke country and then threatening to invade india!

Even an Islamist Pakistan can live happily with secular India, provided Islamist Pakistan get rid of its anti India operations. It is very easy and possible.

if it had to happen, then we wouldnt have gone through 1947 partition where millions were uprooted from their homelands and many were killed, dont you insult their sacrifice!

if islamist wanted to live in secular india, partition would have never taken place at all!

in todays world i dont want to be a citizen of a country where people blow up fellow citizens to fvck 72 virgins!

one word of advice for you ALOK> go to the land of pure and try telling the same thing to jehadis!

JAI HIND

[WingCommander]

Had it not been for nukes we would have for certain taken military action against them after 26/11.

Without american and chinese aid they'll go down the gutter within a couple of years.

[Muzungu]

Had it not been for nukes we would have for certain taken military action against them after 26/11.

Without american and chinese aid they'll go down the gutter within a couple of years.

get some beers and sausages and watch the land of pure go down the drain with their army fighting with their former assets!

[MPNFL]

why is this not possible?

Hindus and Muslims don't like each other, who cares? they both share the same desi culture, more or less eat the same food, and have the same cultural traditions.

how can Hinduism and islam be same in desi culture, food and traditions? go and see how local cutlure in pakistan has been erased to replace it with 'islamic' culture and taditions!

and yet because of the creation of Pakistan they must now be sworn enemies?

Pakistan was created out of hatred and separate religious country, they never wanted to live in secular india, they made their choice clear!

Kashmir can be solved, it really can, if both countries would only be willing to work together instead of competing.

ethenic cleansing of half a million Kashmiri Pandits from their homeland and you accept india to solve the issue? ask pakistan to vacate occupied J&K!

naive? maybe. impossible? absolutely not.

naive yes, impossible yes! ask pakistanis how J&K runs in their blood?

thoughts? please no flame thread

above are my thoughts, not flame!

JAI HIND

well, i tried.

[dredger14]

well, i tried.

You wouldn't ever get it. To "merge"(even the thought of it makes my skin crawl) with that failed state would be to mock all those who died fighting for India, all those that died during partition and all those victims of Islamist terror as well as their families.
The condition of non-Muslim minorities in Pakistan is well documented. Suffice to say the vast majority of Indians would like to pretend that country doesn't exist. Anyone in India that wants a merger can gladly go live in Pakistan, especially those Shahruk Khan, Mahesh Butt types.

[Muzungu]

You wouldn't ever get it. To "merge"(even the thought of it makes my skin crawl) with that failed state would be to mock all those who died fighting for India, all those that died during partition and all those victims of Islamist terror as well as their families.
The condition of non-Muslim minorities in Pakistan is well documented. Suffice to say the vast majority of Indians would like to pretend that country doesn't exist. Anyone in India that wants a merger can gladly go live in Pakistan, especially those Shahruk Khan, Mahesh Butt types.

you can Kuldeep Nayar and Anuditi Roy to that name list!

Indian presidents>Zakir Hussain and APJ Kalam

indian cricket captains> Pataudi, Azhar-u-din

father of indian missiles> APJ Kalam

india as a nation has been secular and minorities have been very well accepted and respected better than land of pure!

how can anyone think of merging India with a country who uses terrorism as a state policy?

im glad partition happened in 1947 and i respect and appriciate the sacrifice of the people who rather moved to india than staying back in land of pure.

many muslims also moved from the land of pure to secular india! Shah rukh khan's father was one of them and so was Dileep Kumar aka Yousuf Khan!

pakistan is a separate country different from india, and i dont give a damn if it blows itself up!(the begining of its end has started)

[Kilimunati]

I vote for peace.

Open more Indian cuisines in Pakistan. I think Curry chicken will do the magic p-)

I decided to marry an Indian after eating Curry Chicken. I vote for Curry Chicken.

[Muzungu]

I decided to marry an Indian after eating Curry Chicken. I vote for Curry Chicken.

and i vote for more Bollywood movies to invade the land of pure!rofl

[ggk]

and i vote for more Bollywood movies to invade the land of pure!rofl

too late... it has begun. ...bollywood sent all the sucking movies to pakistan and afganistan and keep the good one for them self.

[Sana Saudagar]

No talk of peace till pakistanis preach death to indians

From The Times
November 21, 2009
'Mastermind' of Mumbai attack preaches at mosque in Lahore
*
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6926358.ece