Row over jehad: Jethmalani questions God's credentials

[Muzungu]

New Delhi: Former union law minister Ram Jethmalani Saturday kicked up a row at an international conference on terrorism, asking if Islam's jehadi doctrine does not virtually render "god a brothel keeper", prompting a Saudi Arabian envoy to walk out of the conference.


Addressing the seminar, Jethmalani wondered if the jehadi doctrine, propagating the belief allegedly held by Islam's Wahab sect that Muslims attaining martyrdom while fighting non-Muslims "get a place in heaven and the company of the opposite *** there", does not amount to saying that "god is a brothel keeper".

The self-confessed maverick legal hawk also went on to equate god as someone "suffering with Alzheimer's disease", while advising the Indian government and the international community against trusting god in fighting terrorism.

"He will not help as he is suffering with Alzheimer's disease," said Jethmalani, while advising the government to junk its obsession with "an irrelevant non-aligned movement" and "join the forces of good to fight forces of evil".

Jethmalani made "the non-mincing" remarks at an international conference of jurists on terrorism, inaugurated by President Pratibha Patil and attended among others by Singapore Chief Justice Chan Sek Keong and Justice Awn S Al-Khasawneh of the International Court of Justice and envoys of several countries.

Jethmalani's remarks caused Saudi Arabia's Ambassador to India Faisal-al-Trad to walk out, while an embarrassed union Law Minister M. Veerappa Moily swiftly sought to distance himself and the government from the controversial remarks.

Justice Khasawneh contradicted Jethmalani on some facts referred to by him on the jehadi doctrine.

Jethmalani made the remark while dwelling upon the need to fight terrorism also at its ideological level.

"I am a student of all religions, including Islam and I have read the Koran several times. I find that the Prophet is a man of peace," said Jethmalani, adding that it nowhere preaches hate and violence.

"But the decline of Islam started in the 17th century when a person named Wahab propagated hate and violence against all non-Muslims by mis-interpreting one shora (verse) of the Koran," said Jethmalani.

"I have read that shora thousands of times, but I have not found anything wrong in it. But, according to Wahab, all other people, including Christians, Jews and Hindus, and even Shias have forfeited their rights to live," said Jethmalani.

Following Jethmalani's speech, Saudi Arabia's Ambassador Faisal-al-Trad was seen walking out of the conference, apparently taking offence at the remarks.

Organiser of the event Adesh Aggarwala said the ambassador had walked out but returned after Moily's statement that the views expressed by Jethmalani were not that of the government.

Moily, in his address, said that terrorism cannot be attributed to any particular religion.

It was unfortunate that the entire Islam as a religion was being blamed for terrorism, Jethmalani said, adding that "there are also Hindu terrorists and Buddhist terrorists".

Terming the Non-Aligned Movement and Panchsheel as evil, Jethmalani said "India should align with forces of good to combat the forces of evil. India and its foreign ministers must learn to reassess the doctrines of past."

He said India's foreign policy establishment should be courageous to shun any relationship with the country's "enemies".

Referring to Jethmalani's comments, Justice Awn S Al-Khasawneh, a judge of the International Court of Justice, asked him not "to make sweeping statements". He also said that the Wahab movement had started in the 18th century and not in 17th century as Jethmalani had remarked.

Source: Agencies

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3435369&page=0

This guy is a true maverick when it comes to topics like religion and politics!

[Rugal09]

This is an excellent point. To my knowledge, religion is meant to provide a spiritual upliftment, a sense of attaining oneness with the cosmos, a feeling of rapturous joy beyond any material satisfaction. Yet many young jihadists are recruited on promises of a heaven packed with young beautiful virgin maidens and ever flowing wine. So there is a disconnect and gross abuse of religious teachings yet there is no widespread condemnation or attempt to screen such teachings.

personally speaking, the idea of heaven packed with virgins is unappealing to me. After a dozen virgins and tooth marks on my member from slightly disatisfying BJs, I'd be begging for a pro! :grin:

[Muzungu]

This is an excellent point. To my knowledge, religion is meant to provide a spiritual upliftment, a sense of attaining oneness with the cosmos, a feeling of rapturous joy beyond any material satisfaction. Yet many young jihadists are recruited on promises of a heaven packed with young beautiful virgin maidens and ever flowing wine. So there is a disconnect and gross abuse of religious teachings yet there is no widespread condemnation or attempt to screen such teachings.

thats a valid unbaised viewpoint, it applied to all religions.

personally speaking, the idea of heaven packed with virgins is unappealing to me. After a dozen virgins and tooth marks on my member from slightly disatisfying BJs, I'd be begging for a pro! :grin:

roflrofl

[WingCommander]

It seems he doesn't believe in God or in any religion.

[hulaku]

asking if Islam's jehadi doctrine does not virtually render "god a brothel keeper"

Pricelessp-)

[JBH22]

Respect Mr.Jethmalani,you had the guts to point out the real thing...
Sick man who kill innocent people for virgins in heaven

[Sootan]

Respect Mr.Jethmalani,you had the guts to point out the real thing...
Sick man who kill innocent people for virgins in heaven

You support someone who insulted a religion in an international conference to combat terrorism?

[kamaz]

as someone has said, eveeryone of those virgins has a mother in law. These idiots think they are going to heaven ahahaha

[kkbou]

You support someone who insulted a religion in an international conference to combat terrorism?

I guess Mr Jethmalani is going to have some explaining to do, when the saudi king closes his brothel and sends 3 million out-of-work indian expats back to india.

The guy obviously puts his own 'comedic' sense of humour over the livelihoods of his countrymen.

[dredger14]

I guess Mr Jethmalani is going to have some explaining to do, when the saudi king closes his brothel and sends 3 million out-of-work indian expats back to india.

The guy obviously puts his own 'comedic' sense of humour over the livelihoods of his countrymen.
READ THE LINK and get off the high horse!!
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20091109235704895

R Karuppiah, one of the labourers from Palaymakottai district in Tamil nadu, who is stranded in Jeddah told TOI over phone that it has been three months since he approached the consulate with a request to be sent home. "I have cried and pleaded with the officials to send me back to India but I have been asked to wait. I ran away from my employer as I was ill-treated and not paid. My family is suffering back home and only those who had political connections have managed to get their documents cleared and leave, but people like us are still sleeping under the bridge like beggars.'' Karuppiah said.
Those "3 million" workers are treated like sub-humans working at less than minimum pay, most are unskilled illiterate bumpkins lured to the gulf thinking that the area is a paradise.

1. You can't get rid of 3 million workers without finding a replacement source overnight.
2. Don't go away feeling that the Indians OWE the Arabs anything, not after all the funding those arseholes give the Paki terror system, more Indians suffer than benefit from the Gulf.
3. I for one would love to see all 3 million workers sent back, most of whom are Muslims and think the Saudis are some kind of chosen race LOL, would love to see that myth shattered

[hulaku]

You support someone who insulted a religion in an international conference to combat terrorism?

IMO Mr.Jethmalani was not insulting any religion. Addressing the root cause of of a majority of terror attacks in the world ie Saudi-funded Wahhabism, would be on the agenda of an International Conference to Combat Terrorism.

Whether some people agree or disagree on the same is a different question.

[Muzungu]

IMO Mr.Jethmalani was not insulting any religion. Addressing the root cause of of a majority of terror attacks in the world ie Saudi-funded Wahhabism, would be on the agenda of an International Conference to Combat Terrorism.

Whether some people agree or disagree on the same is a different question.

accepting the truth about the influence of wahhabism on the islamic countries of the world, leading to islamic terrorism, is the reality of today!

how come countries like India, Israel, USA, europe and some islamic democracies are being targeted by these so called islamic purists?

[kkbou]

Those "3 million" workers are treated like sub-humans working at less than minimum pay, most are unskilled illiterate bumpkins lured to the gulf thinking that the area is a paradise.

1. You can't get rid of 3 million workers without finding a replacement source overnight.
2. Don't go away feeling that the Indians OWE the Arabs anything, not after all the funding those arseholes give the Paki terror system, more Indians suffer than benefit from the Gulf.
3. I for one would love to see all 3 million workers sent back, most of whom are Muslims and think the Saudis are some kind of chosen race LOL, would love to see that myth shattered

Are you trying to say that 3 million indians were conned into going to the gulf and have been consistently conned for the past 30 years?

Next time I meet an indian in the gulf I will ask him why he left that indian paradise where he was probably 12th in the caste system and only fit to shovel your shyte.

[dredger14]

Are you trying to say that 3 million indians were conned into going to the gulf and have been consistently conned for the past 30 years?

Next time I meet an indian in the gulf I will ask him why he left that indian paradise where he was probably 12th in the caste system and only fit to shovel your shyte.

Shoveling **** in India or the persons status in the caste system doesn't make the Middle East a nice fair place to live does it?? The fact that the vast majority of Indians in the M.E are poor unskilled laborers that you would never get to speak to should make sense to you.

If you think the employment of a mere 3 million should make a nation of 1.2 billion(do the math) OWE the Arabs anything is a huge delusion on your part. Hire more Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, at least they believe that they are descended from Arabs and are more or less cut from the same cloth. ME employment makes a huge difference to poor countries like Pakistan or Bangladesh, not to a Trillion $$ economy like India.

[kkbou]

Shoveling **** in India or the persons status in the caste system doesn't make the Middle East a nice fair place to live does it?? The fact that the vast majority of Indians in the M.E are poor unskilled laborers that you would never get to speak to should make sense to you.

If you think the employment of a mere 3 million should make a nation of 1.2 billion(do the math) OWE the Arabs anything is a huge delusion on your part. Hire more Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, at least they believe that they are descended from Arabs and are more or less cut from the same cloth. ME employment makes a huge difference to poor countries like Pakistan or Bangladesh, not to a Trillion $$ economy like India.


You said it, a trillion $$ economy like india in which a large minority feel forced to go to the gulf and be treated like 'sub-humans' to earn a crust.

Says a lot about the treatment they would get in india, where this trillion $$ economy can't even be bothered to support its own poor.

[pg_ord]

Are you trying to say that 3 million indians were conned into going to the gulf and have been consistently conned for the past 30 years?

Next time I meet an indian in the gulf I will ask him why he left that indian paradise where he was probably 12th in the caste system and only fit to shovel your shyte.
Oh okay so Arabs are superior to idol worshipping, loin cloth clad hindus. :roll:
Fvck off.

[kkbou]

Oh okay so Arabs are superior to idol worshipping, loin cloth clad hindus. :roll:
Fvck off.


These are your thoughts and certainly not what I wrote.

The fact is this illusion of superiority is one rooted in the caste system i.e. in india, so you fvck off.

[dredger14]

You said it, a trillion $$ economy like india in which a large minority feel forced to go to the gulf and be treated like 'sub-humans' to earn a crust.

Says a lot about the treatment they would get in india, where this trillion $$ economy can't even be bothered to support its own poor.

3 million is not a large minority but a minuscule amount, Mumbai itself has a population of 20 million+. Poor folks are treated like **** everywhere, including Arab countries, thats just how it is. Many of those illiterate laborers come from the poorest states of India and are conned into believing that the ME is some kind of paradise.


These are your thoughts and certainly not what I wrote.

The fact is this illusion of superiority is one rooted in the caste system i.e. in india, so you fvck off.

LoL the cast system has nothing to do with laborers in the ME. The whole Indian caste system angle is exploited in the western media, just like saying all Arabs are terrorists.
In India poor people come from all castes-same goes for rich folks, the caste system today is not an impediment for climbing the social ladder.

[pg_ord]

These are your thoughts and certainly not what I wrote.

The fact is this illusion of superiority is one rooted in the caste system i.e. in india, so you fvck off.
Yeah right. I am not the one engaging in verbal gymnastics. :|

[kkbou]

3 million is not a large minority but a minuscule amount, Mumbai itself has a population of 20 million+. Poor folks are treated like **** everywhere, including Arab countries, thats just how it is. Many of those illiterate laborers come from the poorest states of India and are conned into believing that the ME is some kind of paradise.

tell me why does a trillion $$ economy have so many penniless millions and according to you illiterate half-wits? Does that not say something about the value of human life in the country they are leaving?

[kkbou]

Yeah right. I am not the one engaging in verbal gymnastics. :|

verbal gymnastics? If you can paint me a pretty picture of the caste system I'll hang it on the wall.

[dredger14]

tell me why does a trillion $$ economy have so many penniless millions and according to you illiterate half-wits? Does that not say something about the value of human life in the country they are leaving?

Because you are talking a billion people, because a rich country does not automatically mean rich citizens, it takes a long time for money to filter down to the lowest rungs, even the US after being the richest country has homeless people.
Considering the fact that India's economy took off only in the 2000's onward, and all this growth has come from only 6-8 states(out of 22), it will take a long time for the general standard of living to rise to that of the Developed countries. Last time I checked ALL the Arab world was third world too so I don't really get what you are going on about "penniless millions".

verbal gymnastics? If you can paint me a pretty picture of the caste system I'll hang it on the wall.

Paint me a pretty picture of them 72 houris and I'll do the same;)
ridiculous being lectured to about the Indian caste system, expected to feel sorry while looking upon the backward literature of Jihad favorably.

[kkbou]

Paint me a pretty picture of them 72 houris and I'll do the same;)
ridiculous being lectured to about the Indian caste system, expected to feel sorry while looking upon the backward literature of Jihad favorably.


let me remind you how this argument started

"New Delhi: Former union law minister Ram Jethmalani Saturday kicked up a row at an international conference on terrorism, asking if Islam's jehadi doctrine does not virtually render "god a brothel keeper"


If you find this acceptable, expecting anything better than your caste system being criticised is a luxury you don't deserve.

[dredger14]

let me remind you how this argument started

"New Delhi: Former union law minister Ram Jethmalani Saturday kicked up a row at an international conference on terrorism, asking if Islam's jehadi doctrine does not virtually render "god a brothel keeper"


If you find this acceptable, expecting anything better than your caste system being criticised is a luxury you don't deserve.

R.J is a controversial "shock jock" in India..
Can you quote me saying anything to support the dude's tactless comments, I only commented on the 3 million labor force that India was supposed to be "grateful" for, never using inappropriate language.

Seeing how India is the biggest victim of Paki-Islamist Arab funded terror, I find it hard to swallow any literature on the "virtues" of martyrdom and Jihad.

[pg_ord]

let me remind you how this argument started

"New Delhi: Former union law minister Ram Jethmalani Saturday kicked up a row at an international conference on terrorism, asking if Islam's jehadi doctrine does not virtually render "god a brothel keeper"


If you find this acceptable, expecting anything better than your caste system being criticised is a luxury you don't deserve.
You were the person who bought 3 million poverty stricken Injuns in middle east into picture to support your stance. Now that is being questioned you try to dance around with words by insulting poor Indians stuck in Middle east? Truly amazing !!!!

[WingCommander]

Respect Mr.Jethmalani,you had the guts to point out the real thing...
Sick man who kill innocent people for virgins in heaven

On what basis do you think they goto heaven and get 72 virgins after committing vile terrorist crimes ?

[JBH22]

On what basis do you think they goto heaven and get 72 virgins after committing vile terrorist crimes ?

its the wannabe terrorist who keep shouting about killing infidels and having virgins in heaven.

[VAMAN]

You said it, a trillion $$ economy like india in which a large minority feel forced to go to the gulf and be treated like 'sub-humans' to earn a crust.

Says a lot about the treatment they would get in india, where this trillion $$ economy can't even be bothered to support its own poor.
Africa has reached a Billion plus population just this year. India has already more than a Billion population for a long time. And top of that there is past colonial economic exploitation for 100 years which made large population poor. Every year millions of Indians are crossing the poverty line and getting better. But you won't see these things because your only intention is to insult others.

[Muzungu]

guys this guy from 'some where in the UK' doesnt know what he is talking about! forgive his ignorance.rofl

hey please go and watch "Namastey London" staring Akshay Kumar and you will learn to keep quite when it comes to India!

oh one more thing> UK's NHS has a back bone called Indian Doctors and Nurses!

[kkbou]

guys this guy from 'some where in the UK' doesnt know what he is talking about! forgive his ignorance.rofl

hey please go and watch "Namastey London" staring Akshay Kumar and you will learn to keep quite when it comes to India!

oh one more thing> UK's NHS has a back bone called Indian Doctors and Nurses!


you obviously know what you are talking about. I work in the nhs and have done so for the past 10 years.

the backbone of the nhs you allude to is contributed to by many nationalities/races and includes brits, pakistanis, bangledeshis, arabs, indians, africans, south americans, jews, scandinavians etc...

If the indians did leave, believe me there are plenty of home grown doctors who could fill their shoes.

In actual fact, a huge number of home-grown medical graduates have had to leave the UK to get training, because the training posts had already been taken up by foreigners.


And before you accuse me of ignorance again I'll state again that the caste system is truly alive amongst the indian community if not india then certainly in the UK.

I think my source of information is pretty reliable, my wife happens to be Punjabi.

[hulaku]

I think my source of information is pretty reliable, my wife happens to be Punjabi.

A Pakistani Muslim Punjabi I assume?

[pg_ord]

And before you accuse me of ignorance again I'll state again that the caste system is truly alive amongst the indian community if not india then certainly in the UK.

I think my source of information is pretty reliable, my wife happens to be Punjabi.
Yes it is alive but looks like you know jack sh!t about it to make a remark (even if you have a punjabi wife) and painting everyone with a broad brush . ;)

Your prejudice against Indians was clear when you started slinging mud against Indians, without a valid reason, to defend your position. I am glad, with your ethnocentric outlook, you live "somewhere in UK".

[dredger14]

Priceless!! being lectured to about the caste system by an Arab. The champions of human rights that they are..polygamists, public hangings, genital mutilations and other nasty shyte..

How innocently he implies that his own society is better, when on the contrary it actually is a bastion of hate against all outsiders. And what the hell does having a "punjabi"(I doubt she's Indian or Non-Muslim)wife have to do with the caste system.

The crux of all his posts is to impose his values on Indians, so what if one person called Islamic heaven a whore house, if you can call Indian society "casteists", then you should be able to accept criticisms of your own culture and society.

[WingCommander]

its the wannabe terrorist who keep shouting about killing infidels and having virgins in heaven.

Yes you are right about that but they don't actually goto heaven.

There are more chances of them getting anally raped 72 times in hell rofl