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kkbou
11-23-2009, 02:21 PM
The window of opportunity actually slammed shut in 2004, when Greek-Cypriot voters overwhelmingly rejected a United Nations plan to reunite the divided island of Cyprus. A week later the Greek-Cypriot government was allowed to join the European Union anyway, while the Turkish-Cypriots, who had voted in favour of the reunification plan, were frozen out. But some people just won’t give up.

A year ago, with new leadership on both sides, the Greek- and Turkish-Cypriots embarked on another round of talks aimed at reunifying the island. As late as this September, Alexander Downer, the UN secretary-general’s special adviser on Cyprus, said that “what you have here are two leaders who are very committed to a successful outcome.” But good intentions are not enough.

Dimitris Christofias, the Greek-Cypriot president, and Mehmet Ali Talat, his Turkish-Cypriot counterpart, are old friends. They both genuinely want to put the country back together, but they have made little progress and after 50 meetings time is running out.

There will be elections in the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus” (TRNC) in April, and the new president there is likely to be hostile to reunification.
Last time, in 2004, it was the Greek-Cypriot president who persuaded the voters on his side of dividing line to reject the UN proposal. There are bound to be times when one side or the other is led by somebody who wants to die in the last ditch. But there are also bound to be intervals, like the present one, when the leaders on both sides are in favour of unification.

So why talk of windows of opportunity shutting? Even if it doesn’t happen now, surely it will happen sooner or later. Alas, not necessarily.
Geopolitical realities normally change as slowly as the continents drift, but the tectonic plates are now moving quickly in the eastern Mediterranean. The chance of Turkey ever joining the European Union is now shrinking rapidly towards zero–and without the incentive of that goal, why would Ankara ever force the Turkish population of North Cyprus back into a union with the Greek-dominated “Republic of Cyprus”?

Turkey, which first applied to join the EU 22 years ago, and has been an official candidate for the past decade. The current obstacle is the opposition of Germany, Austria, and France. They are all governed by conservatives who believe a Muslim-majority country has no place in what they still see as a “Christian” Europe.

That is ugly nonsense, but not necessarily a deal-breaker: those governments will probably be replaced one day by others that take a more relaxed view of religious differences. After all, a clear majority of EU citizens are not interested in religion at all. Greece and the Republic of Cyprus would also veto Turkish membership today, but a deal between the two Cypriot communities would obviously remove that roadblock.
If anti-Muslim prejudice were the only obstacle to Turkey’s entry, then it could still become a EU member one of these days, but the tectonic shift is not driven by whoever is in power today in Paris, Berlin or Vienna.
It is driven by a growing concern in the EU that global warming is going to generate huge numbers of desperate refugees in Africa and the Middle East–“climate refugees”–who will end up trying to get into Europe.
Never mind if this is just, or even if it is an accurate vision of the future. If this view comes to prevail in the EU, the main question becomes: where do we hold the line against waves of climate refugees?

Should we try to control the current frontier along the eastern borders of Greece and Bulgaria (about 300 km, 175 miles), or bring Turkey into the EU and try to control 1,100 km (750 miles) of borders with Syria, Iraq, Iran, Armenia and Georgia? Not rocket science, is it?

Unless it is overwhelmed by climate change, Turkey will be all right outside the EU. It will overtake Germany in population within a decade, and it already has a higher per capita income than several Eastern European members of the EU.
Turkey was a second-rank great power until the end of the 19th century, and it is likely to be back in that role by the mid-21st.
But if that is the role Turkey will be playing in another generation, why would it want to withdraw its troops from North Cyprus and push the Turkish-Cypriots into a single state with the Greek-Cypriots now? Why would the Turkish-Cypriots themselves want to resume their place as an unloved minority in a Greek-run state, rather than retain their own state in close association with the rising regional great power?

The reply to that question 10 years ago would have been: because Turkish-Cypriots are so poor. But the past decade has seen very rapid economic growth in North Cyprus. The gulf in living standards between the two parts of the island has dramatically narrowed, so reunification no longer seems the only escape from poverty for Turkish-Cypriots.
This is not the last chance for the reunification of Cyprus; 2004 was. Greek-speaking Cyprus is prosperous and secure. Turkish-speaking Cyprus is approaching the same state. And Turkey itself no longer has an incentive to support the creation of a reunified, federal state in Cyprus.
Partition is permanent. It’s over.


Gwynne Dyer's latest book, Climate Wars, was published recently in Canada by Random House and Vintage



I love this guy's rose tinted forecast for the future.

CanadianStormtrooper
11-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Give it back to the Greeks
Pretty annoying already.

4X4Driver
11-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Give it back to the Greeks
Pretty annoying already.


You say this as a Greek..right? ;)

Thugut
11-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Wow, I thought that it was the:
Turkish Army stationed in Cyprus
the 200,000+ turkish colonizers brought in from the depths of Asia
the 1600+ missing GreekCypriots
The looting of the museums and selling on the black market of ancient greek artifacts
The selling of summer homes built on stolen property to British citizens

that made "re-unification" a sham. But no, it's the fact that the Turks can't make money out of this, that breaks the deal.

And what the **** does a Canadian know about this?

CanadianStormtrooper
11-23-2009, 02:39 PM
You say this as a Greek..right? ;)

Yep.
Well take Constantinople too please. :P:P

I don't know too much, would like to read the debate about this one.

I have two homes in Greece

30km out of Salonika
and an Apartment in Athens.
Besides visiting Once a year, nothing.

4X4Driver
11-23-2009, 02:42 PM
Yep.
Well take Constantinople too please.


Well... then let me say it in a way you'll understand it for sure...


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

4X4Driver
11-23-2009, 02:45 PM
Wow, I thought that it was the:
Turkish Army stationed in Cyprus
the 200,000+ turkish colonizers brought in from the depths of Asia
the 1600+ missing GreekCypriots
The looting of the museums and selling on the black market of ancient greek artifacts
The selling of summer homes built on stolen property to British citizens

that made "re-unification" a sham. But no, it's the fact that the Turks can't make money out of this, that breaks the deal.

And what the **** does a Canadian know about this?

All this and more allegations are as a result of an "Akritas Plan" my "friend"...google it ;)

btw...Gwynne Dyer is pretty much spot on in his article. he sound like he knows a lot more than what he wrote here.

CanadianStormtrooper
11-23-2009, 02:51 PM
Well... then let me say it in a way you'll understand it for sure...


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

hahaha! nice. :):)

Thugut
11-23-2009, 02:56 PM
All this and more allegations are as a result of an "Akritas Plan" my "friend"...google it ;)

Typical response from Turkey, "we did what we did because we were threatened".
Same applies in the case of the Armenians no doubt. rofl

kkbou
11-23-2009, 02:57 PM
all this and more allegations are as a result of an "akritas plan" my "friend"...google it ;)

btw...gwynne dyer is pretty much spot on in his article. He sound like he knows a lot more than what he wrote here.


x2 ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

Derbedeu
11-23-2009, 02:58 PM
All this and more allegations are as a result of an "Akritas Plan" my armenian "friend"...google it ;)

This is what I got when I googled it:


The Akritas plan, therefore, was drawn up to resist Turkish efforts to partition Cyprus and to secure what Greek Cypriots saw as their democratic right to self-determination, which, in its ultimate expression, would see the island united with Greece.The Cypriot Greeks comprised 80% of the population back then (1960). That is not the case anymore due to Turkish occupation.

Interestingly enough:


Settlement in Northern Cyprus, especially if accompanied by naturalization, is a violation to the Geneva Conventions Protocol of 1977, since the Turkish occupation has been declared illegal by the UN.

As Thugut mentioned, I can't help but notice that many Turks (as well as the Turkish government) support Azerbaijan's claims over Nagorno-Karabakh, yet at the same time also support the TRNC.

4X4Driver
11-23-2009, 03:23 PM
This is what I got when I googled it:

The Cypriot Greeks comprised 80% of the population back then (1960). That is not the case anymore due to Turkish occupation.

Interestingly enough:



As Thugut mentioned, I can't help but notice that many Turks (as well as the Turkish government) support Azerbaijan's claims over Nagorno-Karabakh, yet at the same time also support the TRNC.


What's that? Wiki...:roll:

here..learn it from the people who were actually on the ground during the conflict.

..and come back and share your "opinion" with us again


http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/MACEY/macey.html

..and don't take Thugut too seriously...pop. of N. Cyprus barely over 200k now..does he actually confesses to something by saying 200k was brought from the mainland Turkey?

m.i.t
11-23-2009, 03:34 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

X2
King Leonidas had said well . " MOLON LABE ".

Thugut
11-23-2009, 04:18 PM
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/MACEY/macey.html



Hahha, nice source m8 :roll:

No disrespect to british soldiers, but that is not an objective source. After all, britain still occupies territory in Cyprus, now but a vestige of her former glory.

Soldat_Américain
11-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Britain is part of the UN Mission, and I'm sure the Cypriots enjoy having the permanent British bases on the island unlike the Turkish occupation.

This thread is going to be deadly...have fun with your suspensions to all who starts their attacks.

OrangeWolf
11-23-2009, 04:41 PM
After the division, would the native Turks and native Greeks be able to put aside frictions and prejudice enough to form a unitary state? I don't know enough about the conflict but I guess Cyprus should be one.

CanadianStormtrooper
11-23-2009, 05:00 PM
..and don't take Thugut too seriously...pop. of N. Cyprus barely over 200k now..does he actually confesses to something by saying 200k was brought from the mainland Turkey?

Well said man.

That's one of the reasons I said what I did in my first post of the thread.
cheers:|

ting
11-23-2009, 07:15 PM
This is what I got when I googled it:

The Cypriot Greeks comprised 80% of the population back then (1960). That is not the case anymore due to Turkish occupation.

Interestingly enough:



As Thugut mentioned, I can't help but notice that many Turks (as well as the Turkish government) support Azerbaijan's claims over Nagorno-Karabakh, yet at the same time also support the TRNC.

The background for this conflict IIRC.
- Greece: military dictatorship
- Turkey same
- Britain has bases and some responsibility on the Island.

Those three formed a tripartite deal or something, to ensure everything went OK as well as stipulating terms for intervention.

Greek Cypriot nationalists want to join with Greece, Turkish Cypriots not so much.

There is a lot of brutal ethnic killing, and the UN is sent in. Still things not good. The Turkish minority is in a bit of a bind.

Turkey strong crew takes over and decides to intervene. If I understand it correctly, they had a valid argument according to the tripartite deal, however the Greeks did not agree, and neither did the British IIRC. But one can argue that neither of those two really were as interested in the well being of the local minority.

Anyway the Turks used overwhelming force, and quickly sliced the Island in two, and a lot of Greek Cypriots heading south west and vice versa. Due to pressure, they quickly stopped fighting.

However the Greek Cypriots and Greeks are left with a feeling of having lost their honor/territory. They now suffer from the lost war syndrome.(France 1871, Germany 1919, Russia/SU 1917, Romania 1940, Finland 1940, etc ad nauseum)

I attempted to read the Wiki on this and related subjects a while ago, but it looked like a wikipedia war zone. Naturally quality was the first to suffer in this war.:lol:

Anyway this is based on sketchy memory, and lack of in dept knowledge. However I am more or less unbiased in this conflict. Both/all five sides(Turkey, Turkish Cypriots, UK, Greeks and Greek Cypriots) were wrong as well as right.

If there were bad guys they were present on all sides. Note that I'm kinda guessing on the UK role though.

You have been given the Panda version of history, so if anyone questions your sources, tell them a panda told you.p-)

Femto
11-23-2009, 08:00 PM
I dont think the island will ever be unified (hope i am wrong) , cause the Turks mainly and the Turkish Cypriots will never agree to give back the properties of the Greek Cypriots . Turkish Cypriots have the advantage cause they have better land/population ratio , and with the settlers from mainland Turkey they can justify the land they already have .
Or the Greek Cypriots will never agree to recognise the Turkish Cypriot state without getting their properties back .

Greece (the politicians) see Cyprus as a burden cause for Greeks its a different country but they are our brothers and we have to support them whatever they decide .
Speaking with bias ill say Turkish Cypriots got "powned" , if they go to other side and see what the Greek Cypriots have achieved in terms of wealth and prosperity . But i can understand it cause the only country that has recognised their side is Turkey (something like the Abkazia and south Ossetia).