damn the post-modernists

[ex1cdo]

WARNING: graphic content in the source!


I'm sorry, but I do not accept that all cultures are equally valid. I wish liberal western democracies would stop making excuses for heinous behaviour in the name of political correctness.



Terrorism that's personal (12 images)

EDITOR'S NOTE: GRAPHIC CONTENT
Text by Jim Verhulst (http://www.tampabay.com/writers/article380979.ece), Times' Perspective editor | Photos by Emilio Morenatti, Associated Press
We typically think of terrorism as a political act.
But sometimes it’s very personal. It wasn’t a government or a guerrilla insurgency that threw acid on this woman’s face in Pakistan. It was a young man whom she had rejected for marriage. As the United States ponders what to do in Afghanistan — and for that matter, in Pakistan — it is wise to understand both the political and the personal, that the very ignorance and illiteracy and misogyny that create the climate for these acid attacks can and does bleed over into the political realm. Nicholas Kristof, the New York Times op-ed columnist who traveled to Pakistan last year to write about acid attacks, put it this way in an essay at the time: “I’ve been investigating such acid attacks, which are commonly used to terrorize and subjugate women and girls in a swath of Asia from Afghanistan through Cambodia (men are almost never attacked with acid). Because women usually don’t matter in this part of the world, their attackers are rarely prosecuted and acid sales are usually not controlled. It’s a kind of terrorism that becomes accepted as part of the background noise in the region. ...
“Bangladesh has imposed controls on acid sales to curb such attacks, but otherwise it is fairly easy in Asia to walk into a shop and buy sulfuric or hydrochloric acid suitable for destroying a human face. Acid attacks and wife burnings are common in parts of Asia because the victims are the most voiceless in these societies: They are poor and female. The first step is simply for the world to take note, to give voice to these women.” Since 1994, a Pakistani activist who founded the Progressive Women’s Association (www.pwaisbd.org (http://www.pwaisbd.org/)) to help such women “has documented 7,800 cases of women who were deliberately burned, scalded or subjected to acid attacks, just in the Islamabad area. In only 2 percent of those cases was anyone convicted.”
The geopolitical question is already hard enough: Should the United States commit more troops to Afghanistan and for what specific purpose? As American policymakers mull the options, here is a frame of reference that puts the tough choices in even starker relief: Are acid attacks a sign of just how little the United States can do to solve intractable problems there — therefore, we should pull out? Or having declared war on terrorism, must the United States stay out of moral duty, to try to protect women such as these — and the schoolgirls whom the Taliban in Afghanistan sprayed with acid simply for going to class — who have suffered a very personal terrorist attack? We offer a reading file of two smart essays that come to differing conclusions.
• In August, Perspective published a New York Times Magazine piece that followed up the story of Afghan sisters Shamsia and Atifa Husseini, who were attacked with acid simply for attending school. If you wish to refresh your memory, you may read the original article here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/magazine/23school-t.html?scp=1&sq=shamsia&st=cse#).
• Two very smart, informed observers come to opposite conclusions on the proper U.S. course of action in Afghanistan. Here are excerpts from arguments that each of them has recently made:
Here are excerpts from Steve Coll’s “Think Tank” blog at NewYorker.com, in which he argues why we can’t leave — “What If We Fail In Afghanistan?” (Read it in full here (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/stevecoll/2009/11/what-if-we-fail-in-afghanistan.html#ixzz0X3bjNwSM).)
In an essay entitled “The War We Can’t Win” in Commonweal (also reprinted this month by Harper’s), Andrew J. Bacevich makes the case that we are overstating the importance of Afghanistan to U.S. interests. Bacevich is a professor of international relations at Boston University and the author, most recently, of The Limits of Power. A retired Army lieutenant colonel, he served from 1969 to 1992, in Vietnam and the first Persian Gulf War. He was a conservative critic of the Iraq war. Several of his essays have run before in Perspective. To read this one in full, go here (http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php3?id_article=2609&var_recherche=bacevich).
• See the Sunday November 22, 2009 Perspective section in the St. Petersburg Times But be forewarned: Those photos are even harder to look at than this one.
To read the original story by Nicholas Kristof, please go Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/opinion/30kristof.html).




Source (http://blogs.tampabay.com/photo/2009/11/terrorism-thats-personal.html) (Warning again: graphic)

[Noons86]

Wow.

First thought: The last one, with the picture of herself, she was so beautiful. Wow.

Second thought: This is one of the reasons why support for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has sunk to its present level. The arguments and slogans of the anti-war movement have never been persuasive. Scandals like Abu Ghraib and Haditha also made the war less popular in the public eye. But the main factor, IMHO, is that there is a general disillusionment about the societies that we supposedly liberated. We free them from their dictators, and they use that freedom to blow themselves up and burn their daughters alive, is a growing sentiment. Of course most people in these countries have their own problems and just want to live their lives as peacefully as possible, but when we see headlines every day of suicide bombings, honor killings, persecution, and ethnic violence, we can't help but wonder if it is even worth it to stay there another day.

[fooj]

Geezus.

I sometimes think of myself as pretty open minded about other cultures, but damn, now I just wanna shoot someone.

[Mastermind]

Yeah...lovely little "religion" of Peace they have there...just lovely.

[ggk]

must be because 2009 almost end.

[Mastermind]

Liberal western dem... Political correctn.. Whats your agenda? Bomb Pakistan?




Terrorism!! Oh noes!!





Yes, those evil muslims.. and buddhists.. and...
hahaha...nice little agenda you got there....nice indeed...

[PeterRJG]

Yeah...lovely little "religion" of Peace they have there...just lovely.

It's a cultural thing and only has peripheral relevance to Islam. They've been at this "honour" bs long before Muhammad stumbled out of the desert.

[XShipRider]

It's only okay to blame religion when it involves Christians, specifically the Catholic Church, but not so when it involves other cultures and their avowed religious beliefs.

Throwing acid should be treated as just another crime regardless of motive. Those girls certainly had it coming. How dare they realize the world isn't flat. Don't they know ignorance is bliss?

[ex1cdo]

Liberal western dem... Political correctn.. Whats your agenda? Bomb Pakistan?

I never suggested bombing Pakistan as a remedy.

If being appalled by these "honour" crimes, yes crimes, and feeling that those that perpetrate them should be rigourously prosecuted amounts to an agenda, then I have an agenda.


Terrorism!! Oh noes!!


I would say it is an act of terrorism in the broadest sense of the definition: using violence to intimidate a group. In this case, the group happens to be women.

[the_Wicked]

Two comments:

1) That's not terrorism :cantbeli:that's assault. Terrorism is for scaring the **** out of the public, usually for political gains. The cases here have as much to do with terrorism as, say, gang fighting.

2) WTF do all Arabs have uber chemistry skills, or is it super-potent acid is sold in the local supermarket over there?

[little icebear]

Throwing acid should be treated as just another crime regardless of motive. Those girls certainly had it coming. How dare they realize the world isn't flat. Don't they know ignorance is bliss?

Yeah, because powerwheelie tried to argue in defense of these acts, right?


Two comments:

1) That's not terrorism :cantbeli:that's assault. Terrorism is for scaring the **** out of the public, usually for political gains. The cases here have as much to do with terrorism as, say, gang fighting.


You need to understand one thing - for right-wing knuckleheads each and every crime commited by a muslim is terrorism.
If this Polanski-guy had converted to Islam before or even after he raped that girl, he´d be accused of terrorism as well.

[seraosha]

I think I'm being kind when I call you all a bunch of phucktards.

Making a joke of these poor women by labeling the thread "damn the post-modernists" was just the start. This is beyond terrorism, this is evil perpetrated by men against women, in a culture that allows this barbarism.

Bigger than Islam, or any organized religion, this is a cultural evil inherit in tribalism and utter fear of women. Like genital mutilation, it's not just an Asian problem, or African, or Middle Eastern...or even Austrian (Fitzler).

It's an evil that can only be combated by men, with the good that men can do, to fight the monsters that perpetrate these crimes against women, and Humanity.

Shame on you assholes for making light of this.

[JKD]

heartbreaking images

[eskachig]

Horrifying. And I second that this is not an issue with Islam, but with male dominated tribal societies like those of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and many others.

[Skutatos]

Acid attacks are simply disgusting. Anyone responsible for one should recieve like treatment imo.

I had an anthropology professor who had done several field studies on tribal cultures and he said some he was with in south america would actually take burning wood out of the firepit and burn their women with them as punishment, as well as constant beatings, starving them and a number of other things. He told us that although in research papers one is supposed to remain objective, he personally thought they were bunch of ****ing savages the world could survive without.

So just because some people may appear to be "post-modernist" it may be simply that their field requires them to be so. Objectivity is important in anthropology because without it you would not have the proper perspective from which to study human behavior. That doesn't mean they are heartless or stupid people.

[XShipRider]

Yeah, because powerwheelie tried to argue in defense of these acts, right?


You obviously read the first line but left out the rest. It was sarcasm pure and simple. The sickness that someone must possess in order to perpetrate a crime of this nature -- unfathomable! The fact that it's driven by religion, regardless of what seraosha thinks, makes it all that much worse.

[ggk]

jut for the notes: theres nothing in the Al Munakahat says anything about burning wife face with acid. ....theres no acid during the prophet muhammad era..must be new.

[Scythian]

I find it disgusting people are using such horrible crimes and suffering for an agenda.

Allah(pbuh) give them strength.

[lotsoffreetime]

I remembered months ago when some of us cheered & some jeered when reading a news about a man sentenced with acid blinding in Iran because the splashed acid into a woman's eye, blinding her.

My opinion - some people, some society will only learn it the hard way. An eye for an eye.

[hulaku]

Acid throwing is an act that is an extremely despicable act which sadly happens all over in Asia including a lot in India. It in my opinion has nothing to do with religion but more a social thing.

There is one acid throwing which ended well in the way the perpetrators were given quick justice.

Taken to the fields and shot by the police.

A
P cops gun down three acid throwers

PNS | Hyderabad

The Warangal police on Saturday shot dead three youth accused of throwing acid on two girl students of an engineering college. While the police claimed that the accused died in an encounter after trying to escape from custody, hours after they were arrested, the public was not ready to believe that.

The incident has sparked off a major row in the State with human rights organisations and Opposition parties demanding an independent probe into the entire episode. While relatives of the acid attack victims welcomed the police action saying "justice has been done", the TDP and Left parties dubbed it as "extra-judicial killing" and demanded a judicial inquiry into the alleged encounter. Reeling under criticism, Home Minister K Jana Reddy has sought a report from the DGP and promised action on that basis.

Warangal DSP, C V Sajjanar, said the three accused were killed in an encounter when they tried to escape by attacking the cops. S Srinivas Rao, Potaraju Harikrishna and S Sanjay had confessed to their involvement in the acid attack which has left K Swapnalika and T Pranitha seriously injured and disfigured.

“The incident occurred when, at 10.30 pm, the cops took the trio to the place where they had made preparations for the acid attack”, Sajjanar said. Their bullet-ridden bodies were found in the grassfield as hundreds of people from surrounding areas rushed to spot Mamnurgutta on the outskirts of Warangal. Sajjanar said that the trio had prepared well in advance to escape from custody if they were taken to their hideout. “They had hidden some acid, knives and a country-made pistol there”, he said. “When they were taken there, they attacked the policemen. In self defence, our men opened fire”, he said. The police recovered the stolen two-wheeler which the accused had used in attacking the girls, and other items from the encounter site.

Potharaju Saraiah, father of one of the deceased Harikrishna, insisted it was a fake encounter. but Srinivas’ father Sanga Rao refused to take his son’s body, saying he deserved such an end for the crime he had committed.

Srinivas had confessed to the crime saying he was angry with Swapnalika for rejecting his love. Instead, she was seeing another boy which had enraged him, he had told the media. The trio had told the police that, for a month, they had practised how to carry out the acid attack without missing their target by throwing water at a toy tied to a pole.

“No one else should get her if she would not be mine”, he had said on Friday. While Swapnalika was his main target, her classmate Pranitha also got hit as both the girls were riding the same two-wheeler while returning home from college. Both are in the BTech final year students of the Kakatiya Institute of Technology and Sciences in Warangal. Both are being treated at Hyderabad.

Swapnalika, who may lose her eyesight, alleged that Srinivas was stalking her for one year and had threatened to kill her and other family members. She also alleged that the police didn’t take action against him despite two complaints.http://www.dailypioneer.com/143382/AP-cops-gun-down-three-acid-throwers.html


THREE YOUTHS, who were paraded by the police before the media on December 12, evening at Warangal in Andhra Pradesh, on charges of an acid attack, in which two girl students of an engineering college were badly injured, were killed within hours in a police ‘encounter’.http://www.merinews.com/article/andhra-three-acid-attackers-killed-in-encounter/152961.shtml

[SilverBoy]

Wow...

I often read about events like this occuring...But I generally don't ever put a face to the name, and imagine the true trauma and horror of these actions...

I stop scrolling down about half way.

I wish these women the best, and the worst to men who think this is the best way to deal with them...

The bastards.

[seraosha]

The fact that it's driven by religion, regardless of what seraosha thinks, makes it all that much worse.

It's not driven by religion, it's driven by evil...which is cross cultural/race/creed. The atrocities that men perpetrate against women and children and other men have been happening longer than any currently practised religion.

Go ahead and kid yourself that it's just Muslims, but those assholes were torturing their women long before Islam made the scene. Creek Indians used to take knives and slit their womens noses and ears as punishment...link me to their connection to Islam.

Hell, link me to any information you have that it's perpetrated by any religion. It's men, tribal patriarchal society's men that are to blame.

[hulaku]

It's not driven by religion, it's driven by evil...which is cross cultural/race/creed. The atrocities that men perpetrate against women and children and other men have been happening longer than any currently practised religion.

x2. Well said.

[futurepilot2004]

2) WTF do all Arabs have uber chemistry skills, or is it super-potent acid is sold in the local supermarket over there?

Since when have pakistanis been arabs????

[hulaku]

Since when have pakistanis been arabs????

Ask the Pakistanisp-)

[Mastermind]

Here is just one article that associates, very professionally, the assaults on a global scale, against women by (males) Islamic associated fundamentalist groups.


These groups are not limited to dusty sand holes in isolated mud hut villages. These events are happening world wide.



Not too many months ago, Australian women and female children were being stoned by Islamic men on public beaches...and not just Islamic women. Islamic men launched wide spread attacks becasue girles and women were walking onthe beaches in swim suits...several women and young girls were injured. Australian men took action, protecting their women and beat the living crap out of these Islamic thugs...this caused a national sensation and resulted in the Australian government passing "hate crimes" legislation to ...of all things...protect Islamic men from getting the asses ripped off by real men refusing to lay down to this sub-human assault on defenseless women!


Here is a very sanitized report, where legislation, carefully crafted so as not to offend Muslim men (yeah...true), and setting up a "Domestic anti-terrorism against gender assaults"..


exerpt from the article:


"The Prime Minister has committed Australian males to stand with Australian females and the International community in the response to the heinous attacks on women and children."


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Protected/Articles/000/000/013/717ufamo.asp?pg=1



Exerpt from the article;


"As for my supposed indifference to Muslim women's human rights, I have written many, many pieces in the Nation and elsewhere about the horrific assaults on women's dignity, freedom, and lives carried out under the banner of Islam--including the case Sommers mentions of a Nigerian sharia court condemning a supposed "adulteress" to death by stoning.
Just two weeks ago I wrote about "honor" killing and other assaults on Iraqi women. So far as I know, my New York Times Magazine interview with members of RAWA, the Afghan feminist organization that made the Taliban execution video Sommers mentions, was the first in a mainstream publication. For over a decade, in my column and elsewhere, I have raised money and awareness for Muslim feminist and human-rights organizations, including RAWA, Baobab, OWFI, Women Living under Muslim Laws, and Women for Afghan Women, on whose board I sit--and for Equality Now, a group I have supported for years and which Sommers mentions approvingly."


It is total and rather idiotic bull crap that these attacks are just random attacks and have nothing at all to do with Islam....it is the worst kind of intellectual denial to say the teachings of Islamic traditions and dogma are not responsible. Women are literally screaming for help to be released from this barbaric form of ****** slavery they are subjected to under Islamic law.


If you decide my comments are anti-Islamic, I would have to agree with you as it pertains to this subject. In modern terms, there is absolutely nothing to justify this kind of ****** (gender) terrorism. Yet, modern societies are increasingly finding themselves losing ground in defending against it due to politically correct activist actually taking sides with Fundamental Islamists who perpetuate these heinous crimes...all in the name of "Religious Freedom"...


If there were any other religious sect other than world wide Islam that preached justifications for committing these monstrous acts against human females, there would be a world wide outcry against that sect...but, out of fear of Islamic retribution, it is idiotically and cowardly defended!


I cite the infamous assault in Amsterdam a few years ago when film producer was brutally, savagely murdered in the street when he and an Islamic woman tried to expose the truth of this bestial activity.


Here is a famous (infamous) Imam actually blaming the victims of savage attacks...because they are women! Islam generally considers women to be tools of Satan and such is constantly preached to Islamic men. It should not amaze anyone that these attacks are massively predominately perpetrated by Islamic men.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/muslim-leader-blames-women-for-***-attacks/story-e6frg6nf-11111124

[seraosha]

You got me in a tight spot man...if I say how I really feel about Islam on these boards again, I'll get another vacation, and as I understand it might be a very long one.

Seen Calanen lately?

This kind of crime is bigger than any religion.
It's like rape, but worse.

[the_Wicked]

Since when have pakistanis been arabs????

Who cares, the question stands.

[ggk]

Here is just one article that associates, very professionally, the assaults on a global scale, against women by (males) Islamic associated fundamentalist groups.





http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/muslim-leader-blames-women-for-***-attacks/story-e6frg6nf-11111124

there you go

http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/PDF%20files/The%20Scope%20of%20Violence%20Against%20Women%20in%20Australia%20-%20NOWSA%20presentation.pdf

[Ssandro]

there's a lot of stuff in the koran about beating up or punishing your wife for adultery, even locking her up until she never sees daylight, although, on the other hand, people have been doing that in every country in the world, and long before Muhammad came along

[ex1cdo]

I think I'm being kind when I call you all a bunch of phucktards.

Making a joke of these poor women by labeling the thread "damn the post-modernists" was just the start.

Nobody is making light of this, so quit being such a ****. Some may have misinterpreted it as being a slight against Islam, which it is not.

If you had any idea at of what post modernism was, ad its tenets, you would understand exactly why I titled this thread as I did.

So don't call me a phucktard, you ignorant arsehole.

[nemowork]

But how can every 17yo slag procure acid in Pak at the first place?

There are a lot of small village workshops that use acid for metalworking, paint stripping and so on and in the old style car batteries that get used in a lot of stuff.

Its very plentiful and as long as your careful can be carried in even the most basic plastic bag or bottle.

A woman is judged to a great degree on her beauty so theres something very symbolically destructive for some people in striking at it.

We even had a case in London recently where a guy broke up with his very pretty blonde TV presenter girlfriend and paid a friend to throw acid in her face, he carried it in a waxed paper milkshake cup.

Quick, cheap and very destructive!