Forgotten rifles... the 7mm Lantan weapon system

[REMOV]

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_7mm_LANTAN_01(800).jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_7mm_LANTAN_02(800).jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_7mm_LANTAN_03(800).jpg
(photos by Z. Gwozdz)

I've found it today, looks interesting.

This is experimental Polish weapon system (similar to the Stoner 63) developed under name Lantan, built around 7mm x 41 intermediate ammunition (made by FA in Skarzysko). System was developed in years 1976 to 1980. Unfortunately in 1980 there were also developed 5,45mm assault rifle (Tantal) and Lantan project was cancelled.

Weapons developed in Lantan system were:
a) assault rfile with fixed stock (kb)
b) assault rifle with collapsible stock, for airborne units (kbd)
c) sniper rifle (kbw)
d) squad automatic rifle, clip fed (rkm)
e) machinegun installed on board of vehicles, belt fed (kbp)
f) heavy machine gun, belt fed (ckm)

Lenght: 1005 mm
Barrel length: 445 mm
Weight: 5,9 kg with bipod
RoF: 450 rpm

[mack pl]

Few years ago in "MMS Komandos" was article about Lantan(with few pics).

Regards

[Herrmannek]

Now we wouldn't have problems with rails as uper reciver ina lantan is fixed with barrel....

[Midav]

Now we wouldn't have problems with rails as uper reciver ina lantan is fixed with barrel....

I was thinking much the same thing.

[perdurabo]

Mack and what they said about this system?

[mack pl]

Mack and what they said about this system?

kurde, musiałem przerzucić tonę makulatury :cantbeli:

artykuł w numerze 2 z 1996 roku. Autorem jest Zbigniew Gwóźdź. Są te same 3 zdjęcia, takie jakie dał tutaj Remov, autorstwa pana ZG. W sumie nie mam nic do dodania, bo Remov podał najistotniejsze informacje.

dodam tylko nazwiska dwóch inżynierów którzy nad tym pracowali-Antoni Szymański i Ernest Durasiewicz. Aha, w 1975 roku pojawiły się pierwsze koncepcje budowy jednolitego systemu strzeleckich broni o kalibrze nie przekraczającym kalibru 9mm, z możliwością uwzględnienia amunicji bezłuskowej(hmm, takie koncepcje 30 lat temu, nieźle)...

pozdro

PS. sorry for polish...

[REMOV]

There were at least two models of Polish caseless cartridge:

http://img10.exs.cx/img10/1161/rys4.jpg
Marian Perehinczuk's ammunition, the first one is from 1971, the second from 1977.

http://img36.exs.cx/img36/9907/rys5.jpg
5,45mm caseless cartridge developed at ITU WUIL WAT in lat 80s. Only several was ever made.

[perdurabo]

wow casless ammo in Poland woot
but your pics arent working mate

[rob]

isnt the concept for a caseless round a 100 years old or something? i remember there being something of that kind.

[mack pl]

wow casless ammo in Poland woot
but your pics arent working mate

In my PC they are working :)

btw on first pic is 40mm ,yeah?

regards

[perdurabo]

first ammo was caseless so this idea is 600years old :lol:
and the pics are working now duno why they didnt worked at first :roll:

[REMOV]

btw on first pic is 40mm ,yeah?Nope. Small-calibre cartridges similar to the Italian 9mm AUPO.

[REMOV]

isnt the concept for a caseless round a 100 years old or something? i remember there being something of that kind.You know nearly at once when the cartridge case was introduced designers wants to get rid of it ;)

[Herrmannek]

btw on first pic is 40mm ,yeah?Nope. Small-calibre cartridges similar to the Italian 9mm AUPO.

Do you have more info about that round and its weapons, I read about them in (~Wspolczesna automatyczna bron strzelecka)? I searched in net but found only few places where it was mentioned, but no pics what so ever....

[REMOV]

I searched in net but found only few places where it was mentioned, but no pics what so ever....http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_9mm%20AUPO.jpg
9mm AUPO caseless round made by Fiocchi

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_9mm%20AUPO%20Benelli%20CB-M2.jpg
9mm CB.M2 submachinegun fed by 9mm AUPO round

[Herrmannek]

Anything more? If it worked and was abandoned for comercial reasons or there was some design flaws?

[REMOV]

Anything more? If it worked and was abandoned for comercial reasons or there was some design flaws?Well... this ammunition wasn't good itself because of bullet stabilization.

You should remember that every projectile stabilized by rotary motion should have the centre of gravity in the back.

This rounds - Perehinczuk's and 9mm AUPO - have this centre of gravity moved to the front of projectile because of free space in the back (where the propellant was). So, the accuracy was low even for submachineguns. That's why the projects were closed. Interesting but useless.

[perdurabo]

so how about make it litlebit longer with something heavy on back and light on front? or maybe whole idea of casless ammo is stupid?

[bluered12]

Quite interesting Remov, thx!

Are there also drawings/pictures of the different variants?