160th SOAR

[flickme]

Im very interested in joining the military. Not quite sure what part and doing what yet. If AF a PJ. But if i join the army(and probably only if i get accepted to WP)then 101st, or ranger. Ive just got all this stuff goin through my mind about what i actually want to do. I had some questions about the 160th SOAR since i would really like to do something around helos.

Anyways, what kind of positions are available in the 160 the join? Ive allways love helos since my dad was a CSAR engineer in the AF. This is pretty much the only field im considering in aviation. Im just wondering if the 160th had positions other than aircrew members. Thanks in advace for all your help.

Flickme

[FallenAngel]

I'm sure they're just like any other helo squadron. Cooks, mechanics, supply officers who requisition the parts, a weatherman, amorers, etc etc etc. ;)

[flickme]

Im talking about combat units. Not support units.

[moughoun]

Im talking about combat units. Not support units.

The only combat role's they could have would be aircrew, it's their only job, they don't have any land component

[flickme]

I see. Well, i can even see myself as an aircrew member. Its just i had reather be down on the ground in the thick of it.

[moughoun]

I see. Well, i can even see myself as an aircrew member. Its just i had reather be down on the ground in the thick of it.

Well then the 160th isn't the place for you, but there are other Air Force job's where they need dedicated people, PJ's for one, did you give that a thought?, they are always in the thick of it ;)

[flickme]

Ya. If you read my first post, i said i was considering that. Actually considering that quite a bit. I have allot of respect for those guys.

[MEGR]

Yea, and what the hell is wrong with flying an F-16 or an A-10, or a b-2? That would be wicked cool.

[moughoun]

Yea, and what the hell is wrong with flying an F-16 or an A-10, or a b-2? That would be wicked cool.

Ya, but he said on the ground

[NcDeuce]

If you want to be a 'door-kicker', look elsewhere.

http://www.campbell.army.mil/160thSOAR_Recruiting/recruitersenlisted.htm

http://www.campbell.army.mil/160thSOAR_Recruiting/recruitersofficer.htm

You don't join, you apply. Note: You'll be subject to many, many deployments ;)

[Uncle Chô]

Well then the 160th isn't the place for you, but there are other Air Force job's
The 160th SOAR is ARMY not Air Force.

"Simply" becomes a helo pilot / aircrew with a regular Army unit flying the CH-47 or UH-60 then with enough experience you may apply to the 160th. I don't think (but you need to check first) they would take newbies with no background -at least as an aircrew.

And yes, why don't you go Air Froce?. ANG units are routinely flying C-SAR missions with their HH-60G. You are not killing people but rescuing downed pilots - does it sound nice? ;)

[Midtown]

Yeah if I went AF, id go for PJ, that would be an amazing job.

[flickme]

Like i said, i was also considering AF. I was just curious if the 160th had any type of infantry units that with them. From what ive read 160th isnt SF but in order to get in you have to be pretty qualified. Thanks for all the info.

[Fintin]

have you looked at airforce TACP...you would get tagged up with army sf units to coordinate air support

[flickme]

Are you talking about combat controllers? If not whats TACP. Im guessing Tactical Air something something.......

[Fintin]

Are you talking about combat controllers? If not whats TACP. Im guessing Tactical Air something something.......

tactical air comand contol party...something like that...this is all off the top of my head right now...too lazy to look them up...but they are differnt from CCT...


TACP...drop bombs on targets

CCT...coordinates airdrops and landing strips

[ASSASSIN]

My brother's Army Recruiter is applying for the 160th, and he showed me some of the application questions on his computer. Some of them were hillarious, but im not supposed to disclose them with anyone lol.

[flickme]

My brother's Army Recruiter is applying for the 160th, and he showed me some of the application questions on his computer. Some of them were hillarious, but im not supposed to disclose them with anyone lol.

Hilarious as in hard? :(

[jedisponge]

or as in silly questions, as in how many times have you jacked off?

[YankeeDeVallecas]

http://www.romad.com/main.htm

TACP "Death on Call"


It states that only the top 2% of TACP's can apply to be assigned with SF units, they are present in all of them, after 3 years of experience. The rest are assigned to regular "manuever" army/marine combat units.

[OzMan]

www.specialtactics.com <General USAF Special Ops (PJ, CCT, SOWT, etc)

www.usafcct.com <Combat Controllers

www.romad.com <TACPs and ETACs

www.combatweather.org <Combat Weathermen (SOWT)

TACP (Tactical Air Control Party, ACC)
ETAC (Enlisted Tactical Air Controller, ACC)
SOWT (Special Operations Weather Technician, AFSOC)

Officers:
TACP: ALO (Air Liaison Officer, ACC)
Pararescue: CRO (Combat Rescue Officer, AFSOC)
Combat Control: STO (Special Tactics Officer, AFSOC)

^That's pretty much all of the kickass career fields the Air Force offers. And a slight correction of something said a few posts back:

All USAF ground controller groups have been attached to SF units. CCTs were attached to active duty ODA's in Afghanistan, and several TACPs were attached to reserve SF units later in the war.

Unfortunately, TACPs and ETACs are more commonly found in non-SF assignments. Many are attached to various Airborne units, cavalry, mech'd armor, and some infantry units.

The "Big Brother" Combat Controllers are usually the ones attached to SF units, SEAL Teams, and are usually THE USAF group attached to Ranger units, especially for airfield siezure missions.

CCTs receive much more combat training than their non-AFSOC counterparts. They run through the Q Course with SF trainees, they are frefall qualified, Combat Dive qualified, they go through SERE school, and practice airfield siezure with Rangers as part of the final AFSOC school (IFAM). That's why CCTs are the prefferred choice for the other services.

You're more likely to see CCTs practicing ship takedowns with SEALs, airfield siezure with Rangers, or getting attached to Delta teams than TACPs or ETACs.

And many SOF operators have "rolled over" into USAF to become CCTs. There are a decent number of "Scarlet Berets" walking around with SF tabs, SEAL Tridents, and the rest.

[flickme]

I have been to specialtactics.com. Good site. The only thing im considering here is a PJ. But thanks for all the info.

[abncougar]

man, if you go to WP, then you will be branched into the army and you might get stuck in quartermaster or something. plus, officers cant be crew chiefs or anything like that. Just enlist in the AF b/c you can go right into the pj's.

[abncougar]

CCTs go through the Q-course, i want to see some hard facts that prove it, cause i think your wrong.

[Apogee]

man, if you go to WP, then you will be branched into the army and you might get stuck in quartermaster or something. plus, officers cant be crew chiefs or anything like that. Just enlist in the AF b/c you can go right into the pj's.

You only get a ****ty branch if you suck at West Point. If you're at the top of your class, you can pick whatever you want, since branching and posting is based off of class rank.

[abncougar]

eagle1-1, you are right about the ccts/pjs rolling over to AF. They are actually recruited out of the army because they are already airborn/mff/scuba qualified and it saves the af money.

[abncougar]

branching and posting is based off gpa and your advanvced camp scores, plus, a comp does the branching, so you could get screwed, the army doesnt want all the best to be in combat arms and the losers to be support, so it is mixed up, no guarantees

[ibstolidude]

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=blind+leading+the+blind/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.suncorner.de/graphics/bruegel/Blind_leading_the_blind.jpg

[Apogee]

branching and posting is based off gpa and your advanvced camp scores, plus, a comp does the branching, so you could get screwed, the army doesnt want all the best to be in combat arms and the losers to be support, so it is mixed up, no guarantees

Not at West Point. Its strictly Order of Merit. Unless the 80% rule isn't met. In which case you could get force branched into combat arms.

[flickme]

Im kinda confused waht your sayin about goin directly to a PJ. If im goin in teh AF im goin in as an oficer if at all possible.

[moughoun]

Im kinda confused waht your sayin about goin directly to a PJ. If im goin in teh AF im goin in as an oficer if at all possible.

I think they have opened up Officer position's as PJ's haven't they?

[flickme]

Ya. Cobat Rescue Officer i believe is what theyre called. But from what ive read theyre not in the field a whole lot. Instead theyre collaborating the missions and such. Im not real clear on it yet.

[flickme]

Heres the duties of the CRO.

DUTIES: COMBAT RESCUE OFFICERS WILL LEAD AND COMMAND COMBAT RESCUE OPERATIONS AS DIRECT COMBATANTS. THEY WILL PERFORM DUTIES AS MISSION PLANNERS AND PROVIDE PERSONNEL RECOVERY -PR- EXPERTISE TO COMMAND AND BATTLE STAFFS ON PR OPERATIONS, TO INCLUDE SURVIVAL, EVASION, RESISTANCE, AND ESCAPE PROGRAMS.

[Praetorian 05]

What happened to going into the infantry and working your way up? This instant commando crap doesn't work.
Go in and work your way up, then you'll have 2 things that can't be bought; respect from subordinates and experience.

[flickme]

I never considered being an "instant commando". However, if im goin into the military im gonna go in as an officer for many reasons. One, i want to be a leader. And even if i did work my way up you cant go from inlisted to officer just like that. Dont you still have to go to the academy? Or take an officers course. Even so, im goin in as an officer no matter what. Not to be an "instant commander" by any means. How do you mean it doesnt work. Im sure many of the best officers in the army came out of West Point. Its not crap.

[moughoun]

Instant commandos, I think the PJ's have proved themselves for the last 30+ year's to be far from that :roll:

[flickme]

Besides, if your goin in for a career then the best thing to do is go in as an officer.

[abncougar]

not necessarily, NCOs have very succesfull carrers

[flickme]

not necessarily, NCOs have very succesfull carrers

True. I meant to add that.

[Praetorian 05]

Officers in reality are more of an administrator. Most Officers will only be in a leadership position 6 to 8 years out of 20 year career. NCOs will be in leadership positions something like 18 years out of 20. So if it is leadership you are looking for, enlist to go into the Rangers and hang with that program for a few years. After you make SSG then go OCS. You will have the background and experience to be an excellent officer.

[abncougar]

Officers in reality are more of an administrator. Most Officers will only be in a leadership position 6 to 8 years out of 20 year career. NCOs will be in leadership positions something like 18 years out of 20. So if it is leadership you are looking for, enlist to go into the Rangers and hang with that program for a few years. After you make SSG then go OCS. You will have the background and experience to be an excellent officer.

i agree, as an NCO, you will be "in charge", as an officer, you will be "in command", there is huge difference

[OzMan]

You're right, I don't believe CCTs go through the entire Q course. I said that wrong. My mistake. But they do have a history of joining SF trainees on many Robin Sage exercises.

Btw...are you SF?

[flickme]

Yes, i am affraid of goin in as an officer and getting stuck with a desk job. That is one consideration.

[Deuterium]

Besides, if your goin in for a career then the best thing to do is go in as an officer.

Thanks for telling me I just wasted the last 21 years of my life!!

Here kid I'll give you some free info. There are many reasons to become an officer. Leadership is one of them. Command of troops is another. If you choose to be an Officer you will indeed be a leader your whole career. You won't, however, be in command your entire career. I think I've got a good idea of what you want. You’re the typical all American kid. You want to be some sort of small unit leader. You want to lead your men into combat. Well unfortunately this is a VERY small part of a career. The sad truth is that this would be only 1-2 years of your entire career (on average). The rest of your career would be pushing paper and staff work. Yes if you are one of the lucky few as your career goes well you'll get command positions of higher units. But there is a drawback. The higher you go the further you get away from the troops. I'll use SF as an example. The TM LDR gets about 12-24 months Team time. He then goes to staff for another 12-24 months. He'll go away for degree completion(Masters) maybe or outside of SF entirely. He might go to a Joint command for staff time there. He'll come back to command a SF company but generally that's pretty far from the spear tip. Not too many stories of a Company commander leading the company into battle in SF. So he gets about 12 months as a company commander. The process repeats itself. If he's VERY lucky(I should say competent, but luck in the form of having a good Rater plays a part) he'll see LTC and make the command list. He gets lucky know because he'll see 24 months of command time this go around. I'll stop at this point because this is the end of most officer’s careers. So in a 20 year career he gets.....60 months of command time, and this is for the few. Most get their 24 months of team time and that's their ENTIRE CAREER!!!!

Choosing the enlisted side has the benefit of being able to spend the overwhelming majority of your career(for the most part) on a team. Pay is definitely not equal to officers but if pay is a major consideration in your career being an officer will be a disappointment to you as well.



Well that's it in a nutshell. Information is very important in making decisions. Hope I helped a little.

[Deuterium]

Officers in reality are more of an administrator. Most Officers will only be in a leadership position 6 to 8 years out of 20 year career. NCOs will be in leadership positions something like 18 years out of 20. So if it is leadership you are looking for, enlist to go into the Rangers and hang with that program for a few years. After you make SSG then go OCS. You will have the background and experience to be an excellent officer.

That is darn good advice. I'd be the first to admit I didn't really have a good idea of what I was getting myself into when I joined the Army and later, SF. It was only after I got into the unit that I learned what was going on. The one thing I would add is that the military is like nothing you've seen or heard on the news, Hollywood, or from your relatives. It's one of those things that you'll have to find out for yourself. Leap of Faith indeed.

[flickme]

Yes, true if i had my choice i would lead men but thats not why im joining. And its not because of the money by any means. Ive been around the military environment all my life and i just want to serve my country. I just want to do it from the front lines(as in in the field) as much as possible. The last thing i want is to be behind a desk. So yes im gonna have to consider quite a few things. Thanks for all the info guys.

[Deuterium]

Good luck and keep doing research. I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can.

[digrar]

I agree with Deut, if you want to be an officer and be in the weeds, be prepared for a short career and have a think about what you want to do for your next career some time in your mid twenties, or be prepared to put up with the staff work for the next 20 years.
It would be the same for any of the combat arms, although your chances of being a Company and Battalion comander would be greater.

[Praetorian 05]

I have never fully understood why Officers get all the hype. I suppose it comes from 19th century and earlier. I guess this misunderstanding stems from the days when Officers came from a Higher Social Class. But these times are long gone. What people don't understand about the modern military is the fact that most of today's NCOs have the education and tactical knowledge as well as more Leadership training than say a Division Commander of the Civil War Era or even WWI.
I know one thing for sure; ask any GOOD Officer what it was that contributed to his success. He will tell you that it was a NCO that developed him when he was a young LT. A strong NCO Corp is what keeps an Army moving in the right direction.
Sure WP turns out some excellent Officers. But it is up the NCOs to develope that product. There is no way 4 years of school prepares someone to lead men into battle. What are you going to tell a guy who has 15 years in the Military, been in 3 different conflicts, shot at more time than he cares to remember, and has a 4 yr degree just like you.

Nothing! He'll tell you what you need to know and he will make sure that you become the type of Officer he can respect. Or you'll just do your 6 years and then go sell Medical equipment!

[flickme]

The main reason: Im going to college no matter what, so, if im going into the military im gonna go to a military academy if at all possible. I think thats one of the reasons for some, or most people.