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OB Kenobi
07-15-2004, 02:26 AM
Some interesting points from a former CIA analyst...

http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/2095005/2096798/2103647/040714_ImperialHubris.jpg

The Misunderstood Osama. How to read Imperial Hubris.
By Bryan Curtis
Slate

The anonymous CIA analyst who wrote Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror managed to preserve his cloak of anonymity until two weeks before his book's publication—a stealth operation that made the agency's WMD spycraft look masterful by comparison. The Boston Phoenix reports that the analyst's name is Michael Scheuer.

He spent three years as the Counterterrorist Center's Osama Bin Laden station chief. In Imperial Hubris, Scheuer argues that Americans misunderstand Bin Laden and al-Qaida and have little sense that we're losing the terror war. As usual, Slate's reading guide fast-forwards you straight to the juicy parts. Grab a copy and read along.


Osama Doesn't Hate Our Freedom

Page 8: The fundamental flaw in our thinking about Bin Laden is that "Muslims hate and attack us for what we are and think, rather than what we do." Muslims are bothered by our modernity, democracy, and ******ity, but they are rarely spurred to action unless American forces encroach on their lands. It's American foreign policy that enrages Osama and al-Qaida, not American culture and society.

Page 11-13: How is the United States threatening Muslim lands? The post-9/11 crackdowns on Muslim charities have effectively ended tithing, which is one of the five pillars of Islam; our casual denunciations of "jihad" sneer at a central tenet of the Muslim faith. America supports corrupt anti-Muslim governments in Uzbekistan and China, "apostate" governments in the Middle East, and the new Christian state of East Timor. And, above all, it continues to house occupying forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Osama Isn't a Madman

Page 114-6: Bin Laden isn't a loose cannon trying to bring the world to Armageddon. He's an eloquent and rational actor, more CEO than gangster. He often blames Muslims for their failure to repel Western invaders. His analyses of al-Qaida's victories and defeats are often more cogent than Western leaders' tirades against him.

Page 124: One element American commentators underestimate is Muslim love for Osama—"love for his defense of the faith, the life he lives, the heroic example he sets, and the similarity of that example to other heroes in the pantheon of Islamic history."

Page 127-33: More evidence for Osama's coherence: His taped addresses display a remarkable consistency in theme and tone. Bin Laden almost always defines American-led forces as the primary enemy, emphasizes the centrality of al-Qaida as an incendiary force, and exhorts young Muslim men to join the fight. The last plank has subtly changed since 9/11. Before, Osama would shame young men into enlisting; now, he smothers them with encouragement and suggests that jihad is a natural stop on the path to manhood. Scheuer says this shows al-Qaida is having no trouble recruiting new charges.


Muslims Listen to Jerry Falwell

Page 3: When evangelicals like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson hold forth on foreign policy—usually with encomiums to Israel and denunciations of Islam—Muslim thinkers tend to conflate their words with the official positions of the U.S. government. There's no separation of church and state in Islam, and Muslims assume the same applies to America. So every time Falwell inveighs against the "terrorist" Prophet, the hate might as well be coming directly from George W. Bush.


Muslims Listen to CENTCOM Briefings

Page 234-5: The daily war briefings, which showed video of precision-guided missiles hitting their target, did us no favors in the Muslim world. For one thing, they reinforce the notion that interloping "crusaders" are killing Muslims every day. For another, the bloodlessness of the videos suggests that we might not have the stomach necessary to win the war on terror.


We Lost Afghanistan

Page 22-25: America's response to 9/11 was a "complete disaster." After Bin Laden's daring attacks on the USS Cole and the embassies in East Africa, we should have had a "next-day" attack plan ready for future strikes. Such an attack could have decapitated al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan on Sept. 12. Instead we waited more than three weeks to invade Afghanistan, and Bin Laden and key operatives had time to escape.

Page 28, 38-40: We should have been overjoyed to find the enemy hiding in Afghanistan, a nation into which we had poured resources and experts to eradicate the Soviets. Yet our strategy there betrayed our misunderstanding of Afghan history. Our first act was to align ourselves too closely to the Northern Alliance, an unrepresentative body that will never gain wide acceptance, and give its cronies key positions in the new government.

Page 42-44: The United States ignored Afghanistan's war heroes, the rugged mujahadeen who helped drive out the Soviets. They should have been courted or killed before the war. Now, with their private militias, they will terrorize Hamid Karzai's government for years to come.

Page 49-51: Afghans can't be bought off with bribes. Plying them with money usually guarantees that they will do the opposite of what the United States asks. Case in point: Despite offering millions in reward money, not a single Afghan has turned over a "high-value" Taliban or al-Qaida target to U.S. forces.

Page 181: Our insistence on a swift, bloodless war prevented us from decimating enemy forces. American soldiers killed (at most) one-fifth of the Taliban soldiers, leaving the rest to escape across borders or disappear into the countryside. Worse, the military doesn't know what percentage of al-Qaida's force it killed because no one bothered to tally al-Qaida's forces before the war.


Training Camps: Not Just for Terrorists Anymore!

Page 217-8: Al-Qaida's "terrorist training camps" were anything but. The majority of the rank-and-file were paramilitary troops trained to fight their "corrupt" native governments. The bona fide terrorists—suicide bombers, assassins, et al.—made up a small portion of the camps, much like special forces do on an Army base. So while the United States was fixating on terrorists, it ignored the huge, well-trained Islamist armies the camps were producing.

Page 219: Our own terrorist training camp is Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The fighters imprisoned there have grown in stature in the Muslim world; when they return to the battlefield, they will be greeted as rock stars. And thanks to American medical care, they'll be among the most robust Islamist fighters in the world.


The Problems of Hubris

Page 173: Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill suggested Afghans build a five-star hotel in postwar Kabul—"presumably," Scheuer cracks, "for the rush of well-off European tourists eager to be targets for rounds from a 122 mm rocket launcher."

Page 180-2: Perhaps our biggest failure in Afghanistan and Iraq was our failure to seal the borders in the two countries before the wars started. In Afghanistan, thousands of enemy fighters slipped into Pakistan, Iran, and Tajikistan. The United States failed to apply the lesson in Iraq, and Islamist fighters slipped in from Syria and Jordan.

Page 182: The United States tapped Mongolian troops for occupation duty in Iraq, despite the historical enmity between the nations. The infamous Mongol general Hulagu Khan, grandson of Genghis Khan, sacked Baghdad in 1258, slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Muslims, and remains one of Iraq's most despised villains.

Page 185-8: The Department of Justice and the FBI have paralyzed American war efforts with their bizarre reliance on law enforcement: "Are we waging war, or hot on the trail of Thelma and Louise?" Scheuer asks. Bin Laden and Mullah Omar, who obey only God's law, are unlikely to quiver when indicted in New York courtrooms.

Page 193-4: Government officials have endangered American policy by leaking classified information to journalists. After the 1998 missile strikes against al-Qaida, a source told the Washington Times that intelligence officials were monitoring al-Qaida's phone calls. Bin Laden and company immediately stopped using the phones. Scheuer says the most shameless al-Qaida leakers work at the FBI, Defense Department, and White House.

Page 223-5: Scheuer scoffs at our love of coalition-building. Bringing other nations into Afghanistan ensured that the military would fight too cautiously to really destroy al-Qaida and the Taliban. Coalition-building also gave cover to murderous "terror wars" by the Chinese and Russians, who joined our cause with ulterior motives. Scheuer compares American presidents to "teenage girls who cannot possibly go to the restroom in a public venue without the accompaniment of their closest girlfriends."

http://www.antville.org/img/Kutter/bushtubbies.jpg

chauncy republicans
07-15-2004, 04:15 PM
LOL... and nobody from the "fan club" has responded yet.

Midav
07-15-2004, 04:20 PM
What is there to respond to? These things have been debated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and...

Once the debates start here and end in nothing, it'll just start over again later.

After nearly three years, it's just become old...

2Sheds_Jackson
07-15-2004, 05:23 PM
Everything is a complete disaster. It's all been done wrong. America is dong all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons. America is the reason for all the misery in the world. My professor says America did a bunch of bad stuff, totally. The administration does not understand foreign policy. Do not look directly at **** Cheney, you risk losing your soul. There is a secret agenda. Bush Lied. America is the problem, not the solution. Other people know how to do it better. America murders people because of their skin color. Bush did it all for his oil interests. America created this problem itself. This will never work. The US military is committing acts of terror. Everybody hates America. America is arrogant and doesn't care. America is nosy and tries to help too much. The US does not know what it's doing. America hates all Muslims. America stole the Lindbergh baby. The US lacks a fundamental understanding of how to do things. Europe knows better. The American government is the source of all evil. Bush has a hotline to the Devil on his desk. American soldiers enjoy killing people. America invented AIDS to kill blacks. America is a ghetto. The streets of the US run red with blood. Americans are hicks and are illiterate. The US invented war. American soldiers are instructed on how to rape people. These documents prove America is bad. The world would be a better place without America. Bush has purposely ruined everything to get rich. **** Cheney has a 3rd nipple which when tweaked, opens a portal to hell. The Pentagon has a secret child molestation squad. It can never be done and you're just going to get them mad at us. The US wants every non-white to die of AIDS. The poor in America are used as food. Ashcroft is really a tusked, asp-tongued demon who will burst your eyeballs and drink the fluid that runs down your shrieking face. America invented poverty and unhappiness. Before all this, things were just fine. If it weren't for America, I could put down the hand cream, and get off the Internet. This would all have worked if only they had listened to the UN. Bush started all this just because Saddam tried to kill his dad. The world was an idyllic paradise until America came along and oppressed all the people. The US employs a secret beam to make the world suck. Bush is a being of anti-energy, feeding on small animals and children. All this is for nothing, we may as well not even try. When angered, Cheney produces a demonic ejaculate of burning sand. It says on my screen that America is bad. If we'd just stop all this everything will be fine. Don't do anything rash, I think America has a gun. No blood for oil. No justice no peace. Fat white Americans are ruining everything.

Just thought I'd save you folks from having to post for a bit. Relax and have a smoke.

Pooga
07-15-2004, 05:32 PM
The US employs a secret beam to make the world suck.
Nice.


Scheuer scoffs at our love of coalition-building.
How many of the hate-club agree with this? None. Speaking of adapting your ideology to fit the "leader's" one.

Anyhoo, adios. ;)

chauncy republicans
07-15-2004, 05:48 PM
Everything is a complete disaster. It's all been done wrong. America is dong all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons. America is the reason for all the misery in the world. My professor says America did a bunch of bad stuff, totally. The administration does not understand foreign policy. Do not look directly at **** Cheney, you risk losing your soul. There is a secret agenda. Bush Lied. America is the problem, not the solution. Other people know how to do it better. America murders people because of their skin color. Bush did it all for his oil interests. America created this problem itself. This will never work. The US military is committing acts of terror. Everybody hates America. America is arrogant and doesn't care. America is nosy and tries to help too much. The US does not know what it's doing. America hates all Muslims. America stole the Lindbergh baby. The US lacks a fundamental understanding of how to do things. Europe knows better. The American government is the source of all evil. Bush has a hotline to the Devil on his desk. American soldiers enjoy killing people. America invented AIDS to kill blacks. America is a ghetto. The streets of the US run red with blood. Americans are hicks and are illiterate. The US invented war. American soldiers are instructed on how to rape people. These documents prove America is bad. The world would be a better place without America. Bush has purposely ruined everything to get rich. **** Cheney has a 3rd nipple which when tweaked, opens a portal to hell. The Pentagon has a secret child molestation squad. It can never be done and you're just going to get them mad at us. The US wants every non-white to die of AIDS. The poor in America are used as food. Ashcroft is really a tusked, asp-tongued demon who will burst your eyeballs and drink the fluid that runs down your shrieking face. America invented poverty and unhappiness. Before all this, things were just fine. If it weren't for America, I could put down the hand cream, and get off the Internet. This would all have worked if only they had listened to the UN. Bush started all this just because Saddam tried to kill his dad. The world was an idyllic paradise until America came along and oppressed all the people. The US employs a secret beam to make the world suck. Bush is a being of anti-energy, feeding on small animals and children. All this is for nothing, we may as well not even try. When angered, Cheney produces a demonic ejaculate of burning sand. It says on my screen that America is bad. If we'd just stop all this everything will be fine. Don't do anything rash, I think America has a gun. No blood for oil. No justice no peace. Fat white Americans are ruining everything.

Just thought I'd save you folks from having to post for a bit. Relax and have a smoke.
You anti-american bastard!

vryhpyammoadded
07-15-2004, 05:54 PM
Some interesting points from a former CIA analyst...
No surprises here both the true and the silly. So, politicians don't do everything suggested by intel, what else is new? Sometimes that's a smart thing others... Then there are agents with issues.
I really don't think it's at all possible for US politicians to do everything perfectly in the Sh*t storm of the Middle East let alone the rest of the world. Sometimes its a wonder the US succeeds politically despite itself. Does that say a lot for the rest of the world? I think the US will eventually muddle through this mess.

Everything is a complete disaster...
That was funny as all hell. I'm going to love this thread. rofl

MEGR
07-15-2004, 05:58 PM
Wait. I thought Jews ran the world.. They are the enemy.

StukaJr
07-15-2004, 06:16 PM
Michael Scheuer, Imperial Hubris:


Coalition-building also gave cover to murderous "terror wars" by the Chinese and Russians, who joined our cause with ulterior motives

What What What? Am I missing something? What terror war is China currently involved in? What cover? What cover does Russia needs to conduct extermination of terrorists and foreign insurgents on its own soil? What is murderous - the terrorist acts or counter terrorist meassures and does not the second become a nessessary response to the first?

Pooga
07-15-2004, 06:26 PM
This is about as funky as Stuka's avatar. :P