Cobra gunship in Iraq

[hood]

I'm on a chopper kick tonight. :)


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NASIRIYAH, IRAQ - MARCH 23: U.S. Marines from Task Force Tarawa duck as a U.S. Marine Cobra helicopter fires a missile that destroys the building behind them while they are pinned down during a gun battle March 23, 2003 in the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah.

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[usa320]

that is **** hot.....

[Merik]

F-ing A bubba. Well since your on a chopper streak how about post some pics if the Huey Gunships the Marines used in Iraq?

[Seiyuuki]

Does the Cobra still carry the TOW or have the standard been switch to Hellfire?

[Merik]

I dunno about the Marines and TOW. I believe they are still TOW capable but dont quote me on that. Personally I belive TOW is better than the HellFires because they are lighter which allows the helicopter to move faster and you always want speed.

[FallenAngel]

AFAIK-- The AH-1W Cobra is capable of firing both types of anti-tank missiles. ;)

[Trigger]

WOW, in case you forgot: Hood's da man!

AFAIK the only disadvantage to TOW is that the helo has to remain relatively stationary while the gunner guides the missile. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken).

[specialairservice]

Merik wrote

F-ing A bubba. Well since your on a chopper streak how about post some pics if the Huey Gunships the Marines used in Iraq?

I think the marines only use the Huey as an airborne c&c post.

[Seraphim]

Has any Cobra's gone down in Iraq?
AFIAK, none has been shot down or crashed.

[Uncle Chô]

The AH-1W still retain the TOW. You can clearly see them on the pictures (port wing). Together with the 20 mm cannon, 2.75"rockets and Hellfire, you have a great range of weapons on a single aircraft to treat different targets.

The TOW is relatively inexpensive compared to the Hellfire. It is a wire-guided missile, meaning you could fire him through smokes. The laser-guided Hellfire need a clear view of the target to lock-on. On the other hand, the Hellfire has almost twice the range of the TOW, which you could engage target at at a safer range.

The USMC guys are pragmatic. They know what CAS is and what really works, not only relying on hi-tech gems...

Speaking of the Twin Hueys, the are used as C&C flying post indeed but I saw pictures of them beeing used as airborne armed escort for resupply convoys (they had .30 Miniguns and .50 cal)

[Merik]

Ahh yes I dont know why I didnt notice them on the actual aircraft in the pictures lol. And the Hueys had 2.75" flechette rockets also Cho.

I remember the coolest video of the war. Ollie North was in a Huey Gunship which was flying escort for a platoon of Slicks that was flying over a Marine convoy going into some village. Well lead bird took fire from the village and broke hard right and the Gunship which Ollie and his cameraman were on nosed it over a bit and just opened up on the spot which the fire was coming from. Had to be the most bad ass video I saw.

[hood]

yeah the shell casings were flying out a mile a minute. i think i have that recorded on the computer somewhere so I'll post it if I can.

[Trigger]

Merik, what are flechette rockets? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering if you mean the 2.75" FFAR (Folding Fin Aerial Rocket) which, AFAIK is a standard HE type weapon. Please clarify. :)

[Merik]

No problem Trig. Always glad to inform someone about something. Flechette rockets are just plain ol' 2.75" that are filled with about a thousand razor blades. They are used primarily for anti-personel ops and upon detenation they go flying everywhere. Very effective. If you cant tell if a rocket is a flechette or not, they give a pink smoke contrail when fired. Thats how you know if its a flechette or not, especially if you are on the receiving end.

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9631/obscure/rsabo5.jpg

This is what the view from a Cobra looks like when firing normal 2.75's.
http://www.aircav.com/cobra/ahgal02/rkts014.jpg

Hood if you have that video PLEASE post it up man. I have been looking everywhere high and low for that damn video but cant get it.

[HMMcrewchief]

I can confirm that the UH-1N has flexible door mounted GAU17 .30 miniguns with 2.75" rockets (Usually HMLA), they also carry M2 or M3M .50 BMG at times or the traditional M60(usually HMM). This is to bolster the amount of firepower Marine Air can bring to the fight. Also the AH1W can use TOW or Hellfire as stated before. Anybody have any pics of the UH1Y or AH ZULU versions yet?

[hood]

well i'll finally get some time this weekend to see if i have that video. here's a huey that i found, although it doesn't give specifics as to which model it is.

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US Marines in a UH-1 Huey helicopter fly over wreckage left over from
US bombing raids at Kandahar airport, 16 December 2001. Three Marines
were injured when one of them stepped on a mine during work to clear
unexploded ordnance.

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This undated photo released by the US Marine Corps shows a Marine's UH-1N Huey helicopter attached to HMLA-267 from Camp Pendleton, California, landing at the Barry M. Golwater Bombing Range, Yuma, Ariz during a training exercise. The US Central Command is confirming that US Marine Huey helicopter has crashed in southern Iraq 30 March, 2003, killing three people and injuring one. AFP PHOTO/US MARINE CORPS/T. G. KESSLER


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COLOMBIA-USA HELICOPTERS:BOGOTA,1SEP99 - U.S. Congressman Cass Ballenger (R-NC) smiles while inspecting the machine gun of a U.S.-made "Super Huey" UH-1HN helicopter, along with an unidentified Colombian police pilot (L) September 1. U.S. government delivered six helicopters to anti-drug police to fight drug-trafficking in the Colombian jungle. jmg/Photo by Carlos Linares *******

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A US Marine UH-1N Huey helicopter flies nearby a marine troop dug into a hillside in the desert nearby the Marine forward base in southern Afghanistan during sunset 27 November 2001. The Marines assaulted and took command of this base 25 November 2001. More than 750 US marines were in southern Afghanistan by 28 November, setting up a forward operating base at an airstrip south of Kandahar, the Pentagon said.

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A US Marine UH-1N Huey helicopter with its gunner manning a machine gun at the open door flies low past an Afghanistan farm house adjacent to the forward Marine base in southern Afghanistan 27 November 2001 afternoon. The Marines assaulted and took command of this base 25 November 2001.

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US Marine Cpl. Brad Dice (L) and Cpl. Michael Stevens (R) of the Marine Helicopter Light Attack Squadron 169 based in Camp Pendleton, Ca., got into the spirit of Halloween before their night mission in their UH-1N "Huey" helicopter on board the USS Peleliu 31 October 2001 somewhere in the Arabian Sea in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. The two Marines said it was a squadron tradition for the aircrew to dress up for any missions on Halloween.

[Merik]

All of the Hueys operating with the USMC are -N models. One of the big differences between it and older models is the FLIR pods underneath the nose, which hasnt been there for less than 10 years if Im right.

I saw this pic and at first I thought it was a 412 but then realized its a -Y model.
http://isweb41.infoseek.co.jp/travel/helicopt/uh1y.jpg
http://helicopt.hp.infoseek.co.jp/ah1z.jpg
http://www.aircav.com/cobra/ahgal15/ah1z-013rsc.jpg
http://www.global-helicopter.com/cobra/MVC-010F.jpg
http://www.global-helicopter.com/cobra/MVC-008F.jpg
http://www.global-helicopter.com/cobra/MVC-006F.jpg
http://www.global-helicopter.com/cobra/MVC-009F.jpg
http://www.global-helicopter.com/cobra/MVC-004F.jpg

[REMOV]

Flechette rockets are just plain ol' 2.75" that are filled with about a thousand razor blades.Not exactly - let's say they are tiny metal arrows or small darts (first used by French in WWI, so their original name "flachette" or "flechette" stays in English). See below:
http://www.albawaba.com/img/news/200304/248024_P1.gif

They are used primarily for anti-personel ops and upon detenation they go flying everywhere. Very effective.There's also not quite exact - the idea of dart is to cover some area (a cone area), not to "flying everywhere" ;) See picture (it's 105mm flachette shell M546 APERS-T):
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m546_105mm_usafas.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9631/obscure/rsabo5.jpg
Ekhm... one notice, the diagram above shows SPIW flachette RIFLE round not a ROCKET.

A diagram of the flachette shell (e.g. M546 APRES-T 'Beehive") is showed below:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m546_2_105mm_usafas.jpg

[HMMcrewchief]

Merrick Thanks for the Pics! Yeah the UH1Y does look like a 412. Although there is a FLIR unit under the nose, that is not the only difference between the N and the older Hueys. The FLIR were installed recently. First the N is powered by a twinpack of Pratt & Whitney T400-cp-400 putting out 1290 SHP burst 1134 SHP continous (sorry, Shaft Horse Power). Resulting in 121knots at sea level, max takeoff weight of 10,500lbs and a ceiling of 14,200 feet. Plus a host of avionics and airframe improvements. I Beleive they were introduced in 1971.

[HMMcrewchief]

Since I have been talking up the UH 1 will let you know about the AH. Powered by two GE T-700-GE-701.Producing 2082 SHP for 30 minutes, 1775 SHP Continuous. 147 knots at sea level fully loaded. A max takeoff weight of 14,750 pounds. Capable of firing 2.75 or 5.0" unguided rockets. Tow or Hellfire against hardened targets. Sidewinder missles in air-to-air. Also Sidearm in Anti-radar. Although the last two are not very commonly carried. And don't forget the 20mm under the nose with 750 rnds.

[Merik]

The one thing I have never ben able to figure out about the Marines is why have two engines? Sure, they will say "Oh, well its in case we lose one engine we can hump it back with another." Thats bs. My old man flew Cobras and not once did he lose an engine unless it was a transmission failure or a compressor stall. But thats not technically losing the engine. And I dont think I have read anywhere that in Vietnam that someone just" lost the engine." More than likely if you get shot at and have problems with the controls you wont just lose an engine, you'll get a control cable hit or something like a transmission hit. Its possible to lose an engine but the chances are slim to none in my point of view.

[Seiyuuki]

Better safe than sorry...

[FallenAngel]

They have two engines for two main reasons...

A- more power. It allows the chopper to climb faster and be more agile than if it had just one. Today's AH-1W and AH-1Z weigh a lot more than the older AH-1s of vietnam fame.

B- it IS as simple as better safe than sorry....especially when operating from amphibious assault carriers way out over the ocean.

[Merik]

Today's AH-1W and AH-1Z weigh a lot more than the older AH-1s of vietnam fame

If the Marines had not had two engines the Whiskey model would weigh about the same as a ECAS bird or a -F model for that matter. There are two reasons why the Whiskey ways so much, 1)is the engines 2) it has so much extra crap on it its unbelievable.

But in saying that the Marines obviously do know how to fly a helicopter better than todays Army pilots. And then again, it could just be the Apache is a piece of flying junk.

[HMMcrewchief]

Marines prefer 2 instead of one due to the safety factor. Plus it gives the helicopter more punch for climb or acceleration, during quick applications of power(burst SHP). It also provides more power during hot and high operations. Engine stalls and failures are not exactly uncomon in helicopters! Debris from hovering and just flying at low altitudes(kites, birds :cantbeli: Not joking!!) plus possible injestion of hot gasses or water spray can kill an engine in a second. Also don't forget those guys on the ground who are shooting at you. Hey, even the army has learned. BlackHawk, Apache, Comanche and Chinook all have two engines.But If you hit some high tension power lines you most likely won't be going home, those little blades on the upper and lower hull might or might not work.

[hood]

ok, here's the minigun video from the huey in Iraq.

http://media.militaryphotos.net/media/huey_mounted_minigun.avi

right click on that and hit save. it needs the divx codec which is at divx.com

[Merik]

Wow Hood. I have not seen that one. In fact thats not even the one I was talking about lol! Oh well I like it just as much. Thanks a lot man! woot

[Upfrontreporting]

Good shooting was had by all ;)

Anyone got the clip of the US Marines fighting in Uhm Qasar, the one with the Javelins being fired at the Iraqi positions and cheering marines as the targets are destroyed. Also good examples of good inter-unit communication during combat. Clip is approx. 8 min.


regards

[Breacher]

If you cant tell if a rocket is a flechette or not, they give a pink smoke contrail when fired. Thats how you know if its a flechette or not, especially if you are on the receiving end.

Let me EMPHASIZE this...I'm NOT trying to cut you down, but who told you this?

When/where was the last time you watched a 2.75 flechette launched? The rocket motor of a 2.75 doesn't give off a specific color as the propellant burns. The difference in mods to the motors are configuration/ amount of the propellant to minor cosmetic changes in the cases.
Plus while flechettes are a nice idea and all, but they're not widely used in the US inventory.

[hood]

actually aren't flechette weapons banned under the geneva/manchester/souix city conventions? as far as I know they're pretty much illegal because they change shape once inside the body to cause more damage, like hollow points. i remember reading a while back that one of the few countries that still uses them is israel although they've gotten a lot of flak for it.