Russia Quietly Creates Leaner and More Modern Military

[TheSteve]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121107801
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/TheSteve412/russia.jpg
by Anne Garrels (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=2100519)

The transformation of Russia's military may be the most successful of President Dmitry Medvedev's modernization programs, but it's not something he talks about much publicly because it is so controversial.

The huge project involves painful cuts and dismantling deep-vested interests that have thrived on bloated, Soviet-style armed forces.
Vitaly Shlykov, a 75-year-old former intelligence officer, has been fighting the military establishment for nearly 20 years, but at last he believes real change is here to stay. He is chairman of a public commission advising the defense ministry.

'Completely New Mission'

"What we have now is the creating of a completely new kind of army with a completely new mission," Shlykov says.
For centuries, Moscow's armed forces have been organized for emergency mass mobilization. Military analyst Alexander Goltz says Russia has now rejected this model in favor of a leaner, smarter force.

"All conventional forces are oriented to local or regional wars. We are not going to prepare our conventional forces to fight NATO, China. All deterrence of these big adversaries lays now on nuclear forces," Goltz says.
Pavel Zolotarev with the Russian Academy of Sciences says this radical change is not without opposition.

"Many think Russia cannot forget about the NATO threat or our huge border with China. Then there are the officers who worry about their future. For those being let go, the government is not fulfilling its promises to provide benefits and apartments," Zolotarev says.

But the reorganization of the military is well under way. The man leading the transformation is Anatoly Serdiukov, a skilled manager and the first civilian defense minister in Russian history.

That fact alone, says Shlykov, the former intelligence officer, is a stunning change.

"Until now, each new minister of defense lobbied for his own branch to the point where the military was almost destroyed," he says.

Officer Corps Trimmed

Under Serdiukov, the overall size of the armed forces is being cut by one-quarter, with the officer corps taking the biggest hit. Already, 50,000 have been forced to retire. Another 150,000 will be pushed out in the next few years.

For those left, education and salaries are to be improved dramatically. Military units are being streamlined and, finally, there will be professional sergeants — the first 250 are being trained. Until now, first-year draftees have been controlled by second-year conscripts; among the results have been brutal, often deadly hazing, poor morale and poor training.

Providing this new army with up-to-date equipment is perhaps the biggest challenge now. Last year's war in Georgia laid bare a host of problems. Russian unmanned drones could not provide instant targeting information. Lacking radios, soldiers resorted to using their personal, unsecured mobile phones.

Russia's defense industry has done little more than upgrade versions of weapons first designed 30 years ago. Goltz, the defense analyst, says the defense ministry is clearly fed up.

"For the first time, we hear generals say, 'Guys, we are here to buy good equipment. We don't want to buy the rubbish you produce,' " he says.
And the so-called rubbish is expensive. For the first time, Russia's defense ministry has gone abroad for weapons. Zolotarev with the Russian Academy of Sciences says the government has so far failed to modernize the Russian defense industry.

Until the current inefficient, corrupt system is totally changed, Zolotarev says, Russia will not have quality weapons and could well lose its position in the world as a major arms supplier.
Link to full story and RADIO REPORT (A more complete version, listen to it)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121107801

[IDF_TANKER]

Sounds like great news for Russian armed forces. They are planning to go fully professional, right?

[Sashko]

Sounds like great news for Russian armed forces. They are planning to go fully professional, right?



Doubtful about going fully professional - too expensive for Russia's size and population. 40% professional, 60% conscripts sounds more reasonable (with minimal conscript use in combat arms and in dangerous conflict zones, and only on volountary basis). Conscription is not a bad thing really, and if applied to support trades (which make up 80% of any successful military, ie. 5 men in the rear for 1 man fighting) it can potentially free up billions that can be spent on procurement. Many conscripts also have a chance to learn a trade that applies to civilian world while serving.

Combat arms have to be 100% professional.

[NavyTimes]

Conscription to be trained in homeland defence is a good thing.

Being sent abroad without having a choice? Not so much. :p

[Ordie]

Doubtful about going fully professional - too expensive for Russia's size and population. 40% professional, 60% conscripts sounds more reasonable (with minimal conscript use in combat arms and in dangerous conflict zones, and only on volountary basis). Conscription is not a bad thing really, and if applied to support trades (which make up 80% of any successful military, ie. 5 men in the rear for 1 man fighting) it can potentially free up billions that can be spent on procurement. Many conscripts also have a chance to learn a trade that applies to civilian world while serving.

Combat arms have to be 100% professional.

Judging for the excerpt below, it looks like Russia will rely upon a smaller, professional and highly mobile force.

If that is the case, they will need to upgrade its transport aircraft fleet, preposition military equipment and stores throughout the country and set up a network of airbases with skeletal crews.

It may also need to look outside Russia for equipment.

C-17 and A-400 may be not out of the question.


For centuries, Moscow's armed forces have been organized for emergency mass mobilization. Military analyst Alexander Goltz says Russia has now rejected this model in favor of a leaner, smarter force.

"All conventional forces are oriented to local or regional wars. We are not going to prepare our conventional forces to fight NATO, China. All deterrence of these big adversaries lays now on nuclear forces," Goltz says.

[HellToupee]

It may also need to look outside Russia for equipment.

C-17 and A-400 may be not out of the question.

Why would they buy those when they have their own equivalents?

[Sashko]

Judging for the excerpt below, it looks like Russia will rely upon a smaller, professional and highly mobile force.

If that is the case, they will need to upgrade its transport aircraft fleet, preposition military equipment and stores throughout the country and set up a network of airbases with skeletal crews.

It may also need to look outside Russia for equipment.

C-17 and A-400 may be not out of the question.



C-17 and A400 - why on Earth?

AN-124 production line is being re-launched i believe, with Ukraine providing the engines. And 124 still dwarfs all of the existing and potential heavy lifter projects.

Il-76 is a pretty amazing lifter as well, and with few upgrades it will be good for the next 20 years.

[Clockwinder]

C-17 and A400 - why on Earth?

AN-124 production line is being re-launched i believe, with Ukraine providing the engines. And 124 still dwarfs all of the existing and potential heavy lifter projects.

Il-76 is a pretty amazing lifter as well, and with few upgrades it will be good for the next 20 years.

An-124 would be a C-5 equivalent. The an-70 is well along in development. The Il-76 is pretty dated now, but combined with the An-70, the An-26 and/or Il-76 (new) would fill most Air Lift needs.
What about Armour? They've moved on from the old T-72 and BMP-6, right?
I'd be more concerned about personal kit for the "new" Russian soldier. Survivability and comfort of the troops has never been a major priority.

[Sashko]

An-124 would be a C-5 equivalent. The an-70 is well along in development. The Il-76 is pretty dated now, but combined with the An-70, the An-26 and/or Il-76 (new) would fill most Air Lift needs.
What about Armour? They've moved on from the old T-72 and BMP-6, right?
I'd be more concerned about personal kit for the "new" Russian soldier. Survivability and comfort of the troops has never been a major priority.


There has been some interest in French FELIN kits, hopefully the deal will go through. However for FELINs to be any good, overall C4 system has to be finalized and implemented.

As for armor, latest T90s are more than adequate. Replacing it makes no sense unless with a completely radical solution. BTR-90 is comparable to LAVs and BMP-3 is quite adequate as well (however some addon armor would not hurt it).

[BMUS]

Russia Quietly Creates Leaner and More Modern Military
Quietly?

Not on this forum. p-)

In before **** hits fan.

Oh, and good read.

[Maitreya]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121107801
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/TheSteve412/russia.jpg
by Anne Garrels (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=2100519)
Link to full story and RADIO REPORT (A more complete version, listen to it)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121107801


just my two cents....

So now the Officer corp and JCOs would also be taught to become leaders
vs followers and also, will they change from Centralized C3 to more distributed and netcentric...I believe just paring down numbers and new hardware is not the true solution for any Army, let alone for the army that epitomized centralized command and control ?



Cheers

[Black_Eagle]

hopefully by the time I get drafted into it (the Russian army), the situation will have improved (the hazing and stuff), but that's just me crossing my fingers.

[Commander Cool]

Why would you get drafted into it if you live in new jersey?

[Black_Eagle]

Why would you get drafted into it if you live in new jersey?

I am a citizen, and I "own" property there (my name is signed on the deed), thus because I have a residence and am a citizen there once I visit I can be plucked off the street and placed into the army.

[TheSteve]

I am a citizen, and I "own" property there (my name is signed on the deed), thus because I have a residence and am a citizen there once I visit I can be plucked off the street and placed into the army.
With the downsizing, do you think this is likely?

[Commander Cool]

Suppose I, being American-born, decide to move to Russia. Will I have to serve in the military?

[eskachig]

Suppose I, being American-born, decide to move to Russia. Will I have to serve in the military?I believe that if you become a citizen somewhere between 18-27 and don't fit any of the exemptions, then yes, technically you can be conscripted.

With the downsizing, do you think this is likely?I've always heard that it's a fairly situational thing. When the local voenkomat doesn't have enough bodies to fill its quote they go looking.

[Skutatos]

Hopefully Russia's counter-terrorism capabilities will also be improved. They sincerely need it with all they have been facing in recent years.

[asch]

CT is zone of responsibility of MVD, not Armed Forces.

[Panchito12]

...well they better start on developing a long-term, skilled, professional NCO class (with a decent $$ and benefits).

[Hyde]

Russia LEaN!!11!!!!


Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Black_Eagle]

With the downsizing, do you think this is likely?
It's possible, and it has happened before, but with the downsizing my chances are possibly getting better (lets just hope Russia doesn't invade Ukraine or Georgia while I'm around)

[Sashko]

With the downsizing, do you think this is likely?


It's unlikely and next to impossible (dual citizen getting grabbed and drafted? :roll:). For especially paranoid - either do some time with the National Guard and grab a piece of paper that you served in foreign military or stow away your Russian passport and travel with Visa-stamped US passport.

From personal experience, I did 5 years with CF, they gave me a nice piece of paper confirming the fact that I served, which i faxed to my local voenkomat in St.Petersburg where they took me off the "fugitive" list p-)

[Derbedeu]

^^ Black Eagle never stated that he's an American citizen either, he could just be here on a student visa or something.

[Sashko]

^^ Black Eagle never stated that he's an American citizen either, he could just be here on a student visa or something.


In that case the absolute worst fate that awaits him, providing he finishes his degree, is becoming a "pidzhak" (literally translated as the jacked from business suit) - a reserve officer who has to do nominal service after finishing a civilian university. But with all the current cuts to the officer cadre and the "new look of the armed forces" that is highly unlikely.

[Derbedeu]

And if that fails, there's always the good old bribe...p-)

[Switek]

I hope that the modernization will be accomplished. Seriously! The crucial are and will be money what determines the final size of new RF armed forces.

Still the final number of planned manpower is enigma ;)

[Sashko]

Still the final number of planned manpower is enigma ;)



From Wiki:


A major reorganisation of the force began in 2009, with the aim of converting all divisions into brigades and cutting surplus officers and establishments.[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces#cite_note-36) However this will affect units of continuous readiness (Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): ЧПГ части постоянной готовности) only. It is intended to create 39-40 such brigades by 1 January 2016 to include: 39 all-arms brigades, 21 artillery and MRL brigades, 7 brigades of army air defence forces, 12 communication brigades, and two brigades of electronic warfare. In addition one division stationed in the Far East will remain, and there will be additional 17 separate regiments


300000 men and officers of all trades seems to be the absolute maximum desired number for land forces (number of brigades multiplied by roughly 3500, plus/minus 50000). Navy and Air Force are doing their own thing, although numbers can only go down there as well.

[JRT]

Quietly? I wonder how many military reforms there has been in Russia since the dissolution of Soviet Union. They have all resulted in Russia having less men with the same old equipment and the same old hierarchy. I certainly can appreciate how difficult it is to turn a big boat around in a small pond but geez, it's almost two decades and they still haven't even completed the organizational reforms.

[sepheronx]

Well, think about it this way (what most people Fail to get I suppose).

- Russia downsizes army, because what are they going to fight? All of Europe and USA in conventional warfare? Be outnumbered in foreign countries? No point. As long as you have an army to defend home and to be sent out to other countries if needed to, you are fine.

- The Russian army equipment isn't that bad. Actually, I doubt it is bad at all. The T-80's in service I can guarentee you are better then the monkeyed T-72's that NATO has faced for a long time. BTR-80A, BMP-1/2/3, and all these other equipment are not crap either, as they are battle proven. Just look at the outcome of Russia's recent war.

- There are area's where they need improvement and they already acknowledge that. Airforce needs up to date combat aircrafts for long range engagement or engagement against advanced aircrafts. Something to protect their sky's (Mig-31 wont last forever). Why else are they investing in the PAK FA program? Why else are they looking to work on a stealth Flanker with India? Navy? Yeah, their NAVY is dying, but no country in any circumstances would just allow their NAVY to die out if they still have funds flowing in and through the military. Another one is communications. They too acknowledge they need better comm systems, and that is what they are working on as well. Troops in Russia do not need systems that require 2lbs of batteries, but they do have newer body armor, and helmets. Which is important. Night vision devices? There are so many different types of helmet mounted sights out in the world, I can guarentee you Russia has plenty of their own.

- Corruption has hurt Russia pretty badly (approximately 300B lost yearly? That is a lot). But if they do move onto online transactions and or remove paper trail all together, then they should not have any problems in regards to financing. If money is lost, then that is the banks fault, which criminal investigations would be done against the banks. So in other words, they are limiting corruptions capabilities.

There is lots they have to do with economy and structure as a whole before they can get at the armed forces. And that is why these processes are slow. Does it take days to make all these adjustments? No. It takes days to say them, but to implement them takes months if not years.

Irregardless; Russia is not a two bit armed forces. With a population of 144/142M people, they can easily have an armed forces of 1M strong (NAVY, Airforce and ground force) and be a match for any country. With a Nuclear arsenal as big as destroying the world 3x over, there really is no way you can go up against that country, even if you place 10 intercepters in poland and or 100.

[Lokos]

Quietly? I wonder how many military reforms there has been in Russia since the dissolution of Soviet Union. They have all resulted in Russia having less men with the same old equipment and the same old hierarchy. I certainly can appreciate how difficult it is to turn a big boat around in a small pond but geez, it's almost two decades and they still haven't even completed the organizational reforms.

You're confusing what was, effectively, a demobilization with 'reform'. After the Soviet Union broke up, the Russian Federation did not so much reform its military, as it did transform divisions deemed surplus to requirements into 'Training Bases' (cadre-personnel taking care of an equipment reserve waiting for mobilization).

And the reason they have all 'resulted in Russia having less men with the same old equipment and the same old hierarchy' is fairly obvious. Having a conventional military suited to high intensity, prolonged warfare was too expensive - but the skeleton of that army was desirable in maintaining the most basic readiness for that sort of conflict.

The organizational reforms began in the latter half of this decade - not two decades ago.

I'm sure you can also appreciate that, given the correct information.

L.

[Switek]

...

300000 men and officers of all trades seems to be the absolute maximum desired number for land forces (number of brigades multiplied by roughly 3500, plus/minus 50000). Navy and Air Force are doing their own thing, although numbers can only go down there as well.


It's still estimation not officially confirmed but seems very reasonable. From those numbers we can assume that land forces are to be fully professional.

Anyway thanks for clarification

[Universal_Soldier]

It's still estimation not officially confirmed but seems very reasonable. From those numbers we can assume that land forces are to be fully professional.

Anyway thanks for clarification

Fully professional? doubt it...maybe eventually but not anytime soon. The VDV will only become fully professional by late 2010 or in 2011. Keep in mind that the VDV is a higher readiness force with an estimated 50,000 men.

[MichaelF]

Include in your Total Force (for any given Service) the massive (tens of thousands) number of personnel locked up in training/doctrine, administration, TDY, incoming/exiting, in transition (such as at a professional military education course), etc.

If the US Army flushed everyone out of TRADOC, we could field another Corps. Of course, we'd lose pretty much all the backfield capabilities that allow us to field world-class organizations in the first place...

[MichaelF]

It'll be interesting to see where the Russian Air Force and the Space Force (Space Troops?) begin heading toward, given the increasing role of UCAVs (and requirements by the Army for CAS) and the militarization of Space.

[MZKT]

Irregardless; Russia is not a two bit armed forces. With a population of 144/142M people, they can easily have an armed forces of 1M strong (NAVY, Airforce and ground force) and be a match for any country. With a Nuclear arsenal as big as destroying the world 3x over, there really is no way you can go up against that country, even if you place 10 intercepters in poland and or 100.

Always funny to see how the "destroy the world multiple times" myth from the anti-nuke movement survive through the decades. Even the combined arsenal of USA and Russia would not cause a nuclear winter according to computer-generated models.

BTW at the current commisioning/phasing out rate of russian missiles 100 interceptors would be a significant factor already by 2015 when the last Topols leave service and russia will remain limited to less then 50 second strike capable warheads on alerted mobile Topol-M and Sinevas of patrolling Delta-IV boats (not more then 1-2 at once, max. 128 warheads).

[Herman the II]

Whatever happened to MAD?

[Lokos]

Always funny to see how the "destroy the world multiple times" myth from the anti-nuke movement survive through the decades. Even the combined arsenal of USA and Russia would not cause a nuclear winter according to computer-generated models.

Unless Russia has zero strike or second strike capability in the medium future, the deterrent remains - in practical terms - as strong as ever. The possession of a tiny stockpile of nuclear weapons makes North Korea, for example, essentially immune to attack. It's the nature of MAD doctrines. But that's neither here nor there. The Russian Federation will surely take steps to maintain a comparable (if not superior) stockpile of tactical and strategic nuclear arms, and the capability to deploy them. It's the single most important facet of their national defense strategy.

L.

[HellToupee]

Always funny to see how the "destroy the world multiple times" myth from the anti-nuke movement survive through the decades. Even the combined arsenal of USA and Russia would not cause a nuclear winter according to computer-generated models.


Its not so much about nuclear winter but destroying a counties ability to operate, few hundred nukes could basically destroy the world economy.