US Army Rangers: special operation forces or not?

[jedisponge]

I play a game called america's army (a superb game), and in their forums there was a recent thread about this. They said that even though Rangers are considered a SOCOM asset, they shouldn't be considered special forces as the "real" Special Forces or commandos in the classic idea that much of the public percieves them as, and that they should just be considered highly trained conventional light infantry. What does everyone else think about this?

I think, that they are special forces/commandos, since they fall under SOCOM command, and saying that they aren't commandos is the same as calling the 160th SOAR not a special operations force because they're helo pilots. i've been hearing from quite a bunch of people that Rangers shouldn't be considered spec-ops, but i've always had.

[MEGR]

Hehe. Special Forces only relates to the Green Berets, not Special Operations as a whole. Go to SOCOM.mil. There is a PDF file called SOCOM Posture or something, that says what units are involved, and yes it said the 75th Rangers.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

There is only one special forces - Green Berets. i do believe the Rangers are considered a special operations force.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Edit: double

[Midav]

I was always under the impression that Rangers were elite infantry.

[bishop1]

Thank you, its so tireing hearing everyone, people, the media, calling SEALs, Rangers, Delta, MFR "Special Forces", thats wrong, as stated above the only S.F. unit is the Green Berets, all the others are Special Ops forces. As for the Rangers, they are elite, and are tasked with high risk missions, but id compare them to the Marine MEUunits in the fact that they are SOC (Special Operations Capable)

[jedisponge]

Yes... i already know Special Forces are only in the Special forces groups, and that yes i know Rangers are not the same as Special Forces. Yes i know Rangers along with the Seals, Special Forces and all those other special mission units are Special Operation Forces. I'm sorry for not coming off that clear in my earlier post.

What i want to know, is do you guys consider Rangers to be in the same group as Seals and Special Forces (commandos)?

I'm not trying to sound like some armchair military-know-it-all but i, and i'm sure some others on this board, am an eighteen year old American aspiring to be one of these people some day.

So i'm just curious to what you guys think about my question.

P.S. after typing "special" so many times, i started to think i was misspelling it. It looks like a really weird word, with the "spe" and then the "cial". Anyone else? No? Just me? Ok, I'll run away now.

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

Yes... i already know Special Forces are only in the Special forces groups, and that yes i know Rangers are not the same as Special Forces. Yes i know Rangers along with the Seals, Special Forces and all those other special mission units are Special Operation Forces. I'm sorry for not coming off that clear in my earlier post.

What i want to know, is do you guys consider Rangers to be in the same group as Seals and Special Forces (commandos)?

I'm not trying to sound like some armchair military-know-it-all but i, and i'm sure some others on this board, am an eighteen year old American aspiring to be one of these people some day.

So i'm just curious to what you guys think about my question.

P.S. after typing "special" so many times, i started to think i was misspelling it. It looks like a really weird word, with the "spe" and then the "cial". Anyone else? No? Just me? Ok, I'll run away now.

Well, you can't really group Rangers ans Seals in the same "group." It's sort of like comparing apples to oranges, so to speak. Each have their own capabilities and limitations. For example, SEALs excel in performing under water operations, and small unit tactics, where as Rangers are extremely good at taking down airfields. All of our special operations units have a sort of "bread and butter operation" and they are all the best in that particular field.

[moughoun]

Which bring's up an odd point'in Europe the US special forces wouldn't be considered sf, weird p-)

[jedisponge]

haha ok ok... one more rephrase of the question :D

Army Rangers: special operation force or not?

and if no, why not?

[MEGR]

Yes.

[Dennis G]

Which bring's up an odd point'in Europe the US special forces wouldn't be considered sf, weird p-)

?



haha ok ok... one more rephrase of the question :D

Army Rangers: special operation force or not?

and if no, why not?

Yes I would say so.

[moughoun]

haha ok ok... one more rephrase of the question :D

Army Rangers: special operation force or not?

and if no, why not?

I think 100 percent answeared yor question as well as can be

[moughoun]

[quote=moughoun]Which bring's up an odd point'in Europe the US special forces wouldn't be considered sf, weird p-)

?

The precent of giving out that title here isn't like in the US, only SEALs, Delta and maybe MFR would get it, there are no such thing's like special operation force's such as the Ranger's here, even the British para's pathfinder platoon is just considered an elite unit while in most non European Countries they would be a special forces unit, and that's just 1 example

[jedisponge]

thanks for everyone's replies;
dennis, midav, bishop and dvgru
hooah you're right about the apples and oranges
moughoun: the thing about the british pathfinders or marines are just elites and there isn't a need to classify them as special and such is right, the public should know they are well trained and geat soldiers.i guess we US need to label everything so our media can understand :cantbeli:

thank you fellas i can sleep sound now.

[szr]

In the US, the term "special operations" just relates to the unified command, these units fall under. The soldiers who wear the Green Beret, in the US Army have special training, qualifications and a mission that is unconvential in nature. "Special Forces" happens to be the actual name of that unit, unlike in other places where 'Special Forces' is a blanket term. The only "Special Forces" in the US are those who wear the Special Forces tab.

Being part of USSOCOM doesn't necessarily mean you're a door-kicking commando either. Psychwar is also part of USSOCOM.

Conversely, there are units that train to the highest standards of advanced/unconventional warfare and traditional boots-in-the-mud soldiering, that are not part of USSOCOM. Marine Force Recon is an example.

75th Ranger Rgt. Rangers are elite light infantry of the US Army who are part of the Special Operations Command.

[NcDeuce]

USASOC:

http://www.soc.mil/images/socmap02_01.gif

160th SOAR is branched aviation...the officers wear http://www.cowboyhatstore.com/images/611.jpg, same patch any other Army aviator would wear. One falls under USASOC, others don't.

Same applies to the 75th, branched Infantry...they wear http://www.cowboyhatstore.com/images/609.jpg, same as a 4th ID or 101st soldier. One falls under USASOC, others don't.

However, only one group gets to wear this baby...http://www.cowboyhatstore.com/images/612.jpg, and I'll let yall figure out who these hot shots are.

[moughoun]

USASOC:



However, only one group gets to wear this baby...http://www.cowboyhatstore.com/images/612.jpg, and I'll let yall figure out who these hot shots are.

The Boy scout's? p-)

[Jack Mehoff]

They still use bows and arrows in the military?

[cut]

I would say from my limited knowledge that it depends on where you are from, for us British we call SOF, SF therefore they would not be considered SF because Royal marines aren't. So from our point of view:
SF: no
Commandos uquivalent: yes

in the US I they aren't considered SOF but SF and according to some US media outlets RM commandos are aswell. So it depends

[moughoun]

I would say from my limited knowledge that it depends on where you are from, for us British we call SOF, SF therefore they would not be considered SF because Royal marines aren't. So from our point of view:
SF: no
Commandos uquivalent: yes

in the US I they aren't considered SOF but SF and according to some US media outlets RM commandos are aswell. So it depends

Royal Marine's sf,no, elite yes, SBS sf yes, the sf designation is not as widely given out here

[cut]

I would say from my limited knowledge that it depends on where you are from, for us British we call SOF, SF therefore they would not be considered SF because Royal marines aren't. So from our point of view:
SF: no
Commandos uquivalent: yes

in the US I they aren't considered SOF but SF and according to some US media outlets RM commandos are aswell. So it depends

Royal Marine's sf,no, elite yes, SBS sf yes, the sf designation is not as widely given out here

Depends where you are in the US elite is SF and SF is SOF

[moughoun]

I would say from my limited knowledge that it depends on where you are from, for us British we call SOF, SF therefore they would not be considered SF because Royal marines aren't. So from our point of view:
SF: no
Commandos uquivalent: yes

in the US I they aren't considered SOF but SF and according to some US media outlets RM commandos are aswell. So it depends

Royal Marine's sf,no, elite yes, SBS sf yes, the sf designation is not as widely given out here

Depends where you are in the US elite is SF and SF is SOF

Yes but that's not what we were talking about, US SF wouldn't be that here, we're getting into symantics now, sorry cut :|

[Gordon]

Maybe, but as far as I see it this conversation becomes semantics nearly every time with people pointing that so and so aren't SF but they're SOF ... if someone could actually explain the difference between the two ... other than the technically correct name or command group it would be much appreciated.

As it is I agree with cut, according to the US standards the Brit Paras and Marines would be SOF/SF forces whereas we just class them as elite troops / commandos.

[moughoun]

Maybe, but as far as I see it this conversation becomes semantics nearly every time with people pointing that so and so aren't SF but they're SOF ... if someone could actually explain the difference between the two ... other than the technically correct name or command group it would be much appreciated.

As it is I agree with cut, according to the US standards the Brit Paras and Marines would be SOF/SF forces whereas we just class them as elite troops / commandos.

Wait a minute I said that, you Brit's ganging up on the Paddy p-)

[Royal]

From the Brit point of view it's very simple.

If DSF's your boss, you're SF.

If he isn't, you ain't.

[Gordon]

Maybe, but as far as I see it this conversation becomes semantics nearly every time with people pointing that so and so aren't SF but they're SOF ... if someone could actually explain the difference between the two ... other than the technically correct name or command group it would be much appreciated.

As it is I agree with cut, according to the US standards the Brit Paras and Marines would be SOF/SF forces whereas we just class them as elite troops / commandos.

Wait a minute I said that, you Brit's ganging up on the Paddy p-)

Probably just this Brit getting the wrong end of the stick... :roll:




From the Brit point of view it's very simple.

If DSF's your boss, you're SF.

If he isn't, you ain't.

makes sense to me, good to see we adhere to KISS ... the US nomenclature does seem a tad complicated at times.

[moughoun]

Maybe, but as far as I see it this conversation becomes semantics nearly every time with people pointing that so and so aren't SF but they're SOF ... if someone could actually explain the difference between the two ... other than the technically correct name or command group it would be much appreciated.

As it is I agree with cut, according to the US standards the Brit Paras and Marines would be SOF/SF forces whereas we just class them as elite troops / commandos.

Wait a minute I said that, you Brit's ganging up on the Paddy p-)

Probably just this Brit getting the wrong end of the stick... :roll:




From the Brit point of view it's very simple.

If DSF's your boss, you're SF.

If he isn't, you ain't.

makes sense to me, good to see we adhere to KISS ... the US nomenclature does seem a tad complicated at times.

Agreed, they do seem to over complicate thing's a bit

[abncougar]

rangers are a spec ops force but more specifially, they act like a quick strike infantry force, able to deploy anywhere anytime, this makes them special.

[Ranger175]

Yes they are, the fact is that many Army regular units are now trying to do missions that the Ranger Battalions have been doing for over 20 years.

The Rangers do train and operate in conjuction with many other units that are under the JSOC command and USSOC.

They are not the Special Forces, but they do Special Operations. I know because I spent 4yr there.

[Uncle Sam]

The 75th Ranger Regiment plans and conducts special military operations in support of US policy and objectives.

Its specially organized, equipped, and trained soldiers provide the National Command Authority (NCA) the capability to rapidly deploy a credible military force to any region of the world.

In addition, Rangers are often called upon to perform missions in support of general purpose forces (GPF).

The cornerstone of Ranger missions is that of direct action. More specifically, Rangers are the premiere airfield seizure and raid unit in the Army.

In order to remain proficient in all light infantry skills, Ranger units also focus on mission essential tasks that include movement to contact, ambush, reconnaissance, airborne and air assaults, and hasty defense.

A typical Ranger Battalion or Regiment mission would involve seizing an airfield for use by follow-on general purpose forces and conducting raids on key targets of operational or strategic importance.

Once secured, follow-on airland or airborne forces are introduced into theater and relieve the Ranger force so that it may conduct planning for future SOF operations.

Rangers rely heavily on external fire support. Ranger fire support personnel train extensively on the employment of CAS, attack helicopters, Naval Gunfire (NGF), AC-130 Gunship and artillery.

The close working relationships with units that habitually support the force ensures that the Ranger Force always has the required assets to perform its mission

On a side note...It's funny that the 82nd doesn't get this kind of hoopla, because our training doctrine is Identical to that of Ranger training, except we are a much larger force. We basically do the same things.

Jus' sayin' :D

[saigonsmuggler]

My understanding is that Rangers are considered to be "shock troopers". On the BATTLEFIELDS, they are employed in similar roles as the famed German SS troopers of WWII - deployed to take high value targets or to break battlefield deadlocks, to shock and overwhelm a dug-in enemy defense.

Maybe now under SOCOM, their mission profiles have changed?

[jedisponge]

hey ranger, can you pm your detalis on your road to get into the regiment? you don't have to put it in any sensitive stuff if its there, but i'm really interested.

[Praetorian 05]

Rangers are Tier II, their mission has changed greatly in the last few years.
They now work closely with another Spec Ops unit.

So Yes, they are very Spec Ops.

[WestCoastG's]

US Rangers are definetly special forces. First they are a force within the US Military. Second their training has been specialised for operations behind enemy lines without reinforcement or resupply. This technically makes them Special Forces.

[BadKarma26]

Just wanted to say, I hope to be a Ranger officer in 4 years after college and AROTC at UC Riverside. (I'm starting in the Fall) I have talked to SEALs (Several of whom were in 6) who have worked with Rangers in the 90's and they have nothing but respect for these guys. Although they aren't as covert as say SEALs or USASF, these guys are some of the best spear-carriers in the business.

[duck]

US Rangers are definetly special forces. First they are a force within the US Military. Second their training has been specialised for operations behind enemy lines without reinforcement or resupply. This technically makes them Special Forces.

So you drop a Ranger battalion on an airfield and just leave them there for a week or so?

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

US Rangers are definetly special forces. First they are a force within the US Military. Second their training has been specialised for operations behind enemy lines without reinforcement or resupply. This technically makes them Special Forces.

Your wrong westcoast..they are not "Special Forces." As said before, there is only one special forces (Green Berets). Rangers are a special operations force, though.

[aartamen]

I am not sure about the book definition, but US Army Rangers are pretty special.

[Praetorian 05]

BadKarma26,
To become a Ranger Officer you must be selected. So good luck; they will only take the best. Good to see someone that sets high goals for himself, that is what it takes to be the Best.