Greek Jews rally against cemetery vandalism in Ioannina

[Jedigman]

A public rally against anti-Semitism was held in Greece.
The rally, held Friday organized by The Citizen Initiative for the Defense of the Jewish Cemetery of Ioannina, was held outside the Ioannina Jewish cemetery, which has been vandalized four times so far this year.
The incidents were met with general indifference by city officials, state authorities and the political partieshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260447435331&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull#), amid allegations of police involvement in the vandalism, according to reports.
The systematic and intense anti-Semitic violence in Ioannina has driven a small but important group of Ioannina citizens to band together. The Citizens Initiative is an organization of more than 100 intellectual, professors, professionals that live in the city of Ioannina with no political backing or affiliation that decided to act against anti-Semitism.
The organization was founded at the beginning of 2009 "to combat racism and elevate the Jewish cemetery as an inseparable part of the Ioannina history."
The Jewish Community of Ioannina is the oldest branch of Greek Jewry - the Romaniote Jews - who trace their ancestry in Greece back to the Babylonian exile.

The local Jews believe that the vandals are members of an openly neo-Nazi group who have publicly demonstrated in the city and are known both to the police and the city.
At the time of the last incident in July, Jewish community head Moysis Elissaf accused the police "of criminal negligence since the attacks on thecemetery were incessant." The tomb of Elissaf's mother was destroyed in that attack. Elissaf called for the city of Ioannina to come together in solidarity against the vandalism, a plea which
was met with indifference and mockery.
When the local bishop was asked to denounce the vandalism, he stated that he "did not want to get political." The mayor has kept a low-profile on the issue.

Link-
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260447435331&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[G3SG1]

''amid allegations of police involvement in the vandalism, according to reports.''


I don't believe what i am reading.:roll:police involvement in the vandalism?

And this asking of the Christian bishop to denounce the vandalism. Is any Rabbi obliged to denounce the vandalism of dozens of Christian graves all over Greece by vandals every year?


Professor Moysis Elissaf is a well known and respected scientist in Greece and i don't thing he has to do anything with the disgusted way this topic was covered by Jerusalem Post.

Btw i don't know any violent attack against a Jew in Greece in the past 30 years i live here. If there is Neonazi involvement this should be examined by proper authorities but reading this article you think that Jews are killed in the streets.

I am afraid this will hit backwards. Already the Greek Jewish community took a lot of criticism when they decide to attack Greek justice and specific judges for the acquittal of a well known Holocaust denier by the Court of Appeals. And the same Greek Jewish community was praising the same Greek justice when the same denier received 14 month jail sentence during the First degree trial. In a democracy you respect ALL court decisions.

I feel extremely offended by this paper report and i will personally send a letter to the Jerusalem Post to complain.No big deal you might say. I agree. If you have a political agenda, ethics and truth are going to the garbage can.

[kahn267]

And this asking of the Christian bishop to denounce the vandalism. Is any Rabbi obliged to denounce the vandalism of dozens of Christian graves all over Greece by vandals every year?

.

Until Christian grave-sites are vandalized by extremist Jewish groups, then you wont see a Rabbi denouncing it.

The fact is, the bishop has alot of power and influence and could easily have remained neutral by simply denouncing the acts on any gravesite of any religion. That way he would pose some influence. I'm sure if it was to happen to Christian gravesites, he would be sticking his head out.

FYI In WW2, The Pope also stood back and watched as the millions of Jews were sent to ghettos and to their deaths. This transcended to the Red-cross who did nothing for the countless people starved and worked to death.

[G3SG1]

Until Christian grave-sites are vandalized by extremist Jewish groups, then you wont see a Rabbi denouncing it.

The fact is, the bishop has alot of power and influence and could easily have remained neutral by simply denouncing the acts on any gravesite of any religion. That way he would pose some influence. I'm sure if it was to happen to Christian gravesites, he would be sticking his head out.

FYI In WW2, The Pope also stood back and watched as the millions of Jews were sent to ghettos and to their deaths. This transcended to the Red-cross who did nothing for the countless people starved and worked to death.



Speaking about Christian clergies in WW2

Nazi occupation

The Archbishop of Athens was the spiritual leader of the Greek Orthodox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Greece) people of Athens and All Greece, and Damaskinos worked very hard to live up to his position during those hard times. He frequently clashed with the German authorities and the quisling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling) government. In 1943, the Germans began the persecution of the Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) of Greece, and their deportations to Nazi concentration camps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps). Damaskinos formally protested the actions of the occupational authorities.
According to the The International Raoul Wallenberg Foundation the appeal of Damaskinos and his fellow Greeks is unique as no document similar to the protest against the Nazis during World War II has come to light in any other European country.
The letter in part reads:
“ The Greek Orthodox Church and the Academic World of Greek People Protest against the Persecution... The Greek people were... deeply grieved to learn that the German Occupation Authorities have already started to put into effect a program of gradual deportation of the Greek Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Jews) community... and that the first groups of deportees are already on their way to Poland... According to the terms of the armistice, all Greek citizens, without distinction of race or religion, were to be treated equally by the Occupation Authorities. The Greek Jews have proven themselves... valuable contributors to the economic growth of the country [and] law-abiding citizens who fully understand their duties as Greeks. They have made sacrifices for the Greek country, and were always on the front lines of the struggle of the Greek nation to defend its inalienable historical rights...
In our national consciousness, all the children of Mother Greece are an inseparable unity: they are equal members of the national body irrespective of religion... Our holy religion does not recognize superior or inferior qualities based on race or religion, as it is stated: 'There is neither Jew nor Greek' and thus condemns any attempt to discriminate or create racial or religious differences. Our common fate both in days of glory and in periods of national misfortune forged inseparable bonds between all Greek citizens, without exemption, irrespective of race...
Today we are... deeply concerned with the fate of 60,000 of our fellow citizens who are Jews... we have lived together in both slavery and freedom, and we have come to appreciate their feelings, their brotherly attitude, their economic activity, and most important, their indefectible patriotism...[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Damaskinos_of_Athens#cite_note-RW-0)
” Damaskinos went on to publish the letter, even though the local Schutzstaffel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel) commander, Jürgen Stroop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Stroop), threatened to execute him by firing squad. Damaskinos's famous response to him was:
“ According to the traditions of the Greek Orthodox Church, our prelates are hanged, not shot. Please respect our traditions![2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Damaskinos_of_Athens#cite_note-USHMM-1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Damaskinos_of_Athens



Btw If Neonazis are the vandals you should know most of them are not Christians.They believe in some pagan Nazi inspired rituals.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Until Christian grave-sites are vandalized by extremist Jewish groups, then you wont see a Rabbi denouncing it.I will not hold my in waiting for a Rabbi to denounce a member of their flock they so far European Rabbi's have been quite reticent when it comes to condemnation of extreme Jewish groups.

[NimDod]

when it comes to condemnation of extreme Jewish groups.
extreme Jewish groups?
which ones?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

extreme Jewish groups?
which ones?The JDL and all the loony Kach spin offs.

[futurepilot2004]

FYI In WW2, The Pope also stood back and watched as the millions of Jews were sent to ghettos and to their deaths. .
Out of curiousity, what would you have expected the pope to do? Send the swiss guard out to invade Germany?

[RoyB]

His silence certainly didn't help.

[futurepilot2004]

His silence certainly didn't help.

Oh I totally agree with you but in reality there really wasnt a lot that he could have done.

[Snoshi]

The JDL and all the loony Kach spin offs.

When was the last time these groups did anything "extreme"? They are just kids who like to paint racist graffiti..

[RoyB]

Oh I totally agree with you but in reality there really wasnt a lot that he could have done.
That's not true, not at all.
No one expected him to march his guard and take down Hitler, but the words that should have come out of his mouth for sure could have hold some water.
Although some was done, some were saved. A quick search in Google would reveal exactly what he has done and what he hasn't.
But for a man in his position, the Vatican being such a high power in Christianity through Europe, he did relatively little.

[GB_FXST]

... snip ...

I feel extremely offended by this paper report and i will personally send a letter to the Jerusalem Post to complain.No big deal you might say. I agree. If you have a political agenda, ethics and truth are going to the garbage can.

I find it interesting that you are so upset, as I thought that article was a positive and complimentary reflection on Greek society and individuals.

It is not a trivial matter when citizens congregate to correct a perceived ill.



I will not hold my in waiting for a Rabbi to denounce a member of their flock they so far European Rabbi's have been quite reticent when it comes to condemnation of extreme Jewish groups.

At the risk of going off-topic, please provide some links. What Jewish extremist group operates in Europe. The JDL is now defunct in the US.

If anything, I am perturbed by too many Rabbis too quickly denouncing Israel and supporting her enemies.

[Mencius]

Our WW2 allies are aware of the sacrifices the Greeks made in WW2 and honour them. A lot of Greek civillians stuck their necks out in hiding and protecting many allies including some Jews.

At least in Greece, Mein Kampf isn't a bestseller like it is in Turkey.

[Karaahmetoglu]

At least in Greece, Mein Kampf isn't a bestseller like it is in Turkey.

What does this thread have to do about Turkey? Honestly nice try to derail the thread, and change the topic to a Turkey bashing one.

During WW2 Turkey was a safe haven for Jews, Einstein was in Turkey for a while.

[Snoshi]

Expect it is made by a guy from Turkey..

[Mencius]

What does this thread have to do about Turkey? Honestly nice try to derail the thread, and change the topic to a Turkey bashing one.

During WW2 Turkey was a safe haven for Jews, Einstein was in Turkey for a while.

Pardon me if you're offended. I wanted to highlight a point that anti semetism in Greece is tiny compared to pretty much all of europe, western asia and the Middle East.

[Ulytau]

Our WW2 allies are aware of the sacrifices the Greeks made in WW2 and honour them. A lot of Greek civillians stuck their necks out in hiding and protecting many allies including some Jews.

At least in Greece, Mein Kampf isn't a bestseller like it is in Turkey.

I just wonder about a thing a book which published more than 45 times didnt be best seller same time (speaking as a person who visiting bookshop minimum 2-3 days in a week)

Another thing can you see anything about Turkiye at this news

And original letter from archives;

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9728/mektup.gif

[Nickchios]

It is shame that some one is using cemeterys recently in NE Europe for what...... ?

How difficult is to leave dead people Rest In Peace?.......:-(

How difficult is to show some respect for dead people?.......:-(

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

At the risk of going off-topic, please provide some links. What Jewish extremist group operates in Europe. The JDL is now defunct in the US.The JDL are still active in France maybe if they get sent down they might do the right thing and go all Irv Rubin on themselves.


http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/paris-jdl-members-arrested-attack

[GB_FXST]

The JDL are still active in France maybe if they get sent down they might do the right thing and go all Irv Rubin on themselves.


http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/paris-jdl-members-arrested-attack

Thank you for the link. But, in this instance, a Jewish authority, the CRIF, denounced the JDL vandalism of the bookstore as a criminal act.

Now, the CRIF may or may not have rabbinical association (I suspect it does, but do not know), but this is an example where a Jewish authority is taking a stand against Jewish extremism.

You are still lacking an example where Jewish extremism was not met by a denouncement by a mainstream Jewsih authority.

[Mencius]

I just wonder about a thing a book which published more than 45 times didnt be best seller same time (speaking as a person who visiting bookshop minimum 2-3 days in a week)

Another thing can you see anything about Turkiye at this news

And original letter from archives;

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9728/mektup.gif

Google it, friend. You'll find a lot of articles on it from many news agencies.

[Hollis]

Let's keep this on topic.

Personally I hope the authorities catches the perps.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Deleted not on topic

[gazell]

Until Christian grave-sites are vandalized by extremist Jewish groups, then you wont see a Rabbi denouncing it.

The fact is, the bishop has alot of power and influence and could easily have remained neutral by simply denouncing the acts on any gravesite of any religion. That way he would pose some influence. I'm sure if it was to happen to Christian gravesites, he would be sticking his head out.


I think, you misunderstand him a bit. These things happen to everybody's graves and other things of symbols and importance, unfortunately. There are nuts in all wakes of life. Nobody else makes that much drama of it.

And no, they do not. A Jewish Methodist pastor just has declared the double cross a racist nazi symbol instead, after one was destroyed.

So relax a bit on this.

[GB_FXST]

I think, you misunderstand him a bit. These things happen to everybody's graves and other things of symbols and importance, unfortunately. There are nuts in all wakes of life. Nobody else makes that much drama of it.

And no, they do not. A Jewish Methodist pastor just has declared the double cross a racist nazi symbol instead, after one was destroyed.

So relax a bit on this.

Huh?

123456

[gazell]

Huh?

123456

Well, I know. There are all sorts these days.:lol:

[Aor]

Ioannina is one of the two major Greek cities with Jewish presence that counts centuries. This coexistence cannot be erased by a few vandals and fanatics that seem to forget against whom Greece fought tooth and nail in open warfare and relentless guerilla operations during WWII. Acts of racial hatred, especially anti-Semitism, are unacceptable for a people that through philosophy and culture promotes tolerance, acceptance and understanding. It is good that there was a vocal immediate reaction by citizens of the city.

[GB_FXST]

Well, I know. There are all sorts these days.:lol:

Maybe its a translation problem, but you should provide a link.

Its a long time since I took comparative theology, but I do know that Methodism and Judaism are two distinct things.

[gazell]

Maybe its a translation problem, but you should provide a link.

Its a long time since I took comparative theology, but I do know that Methodism and Judaism are two distinct things.

No it is not a translation problem, nor it is a theological problem much, on which, you are more than correct.

I shall put the rest in PM, GB, as we are threading out of topic here, OK?