Abu Ghraib Sodomy Videos Found?

[OB Kenobi]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472

[chauncy republicans]

Yeah and for a minute there I thought we held the morale high ground...
what a shame.

[ShotOver]

Yay, Arab **** :D
hahaha OB Kenobi, take a hike mate, seriously. Your boring me to tears.

[SFontaine]

Yeah and for a minute there I thought we held the morale high ground...
what a shame.

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/ReaganDemocratsOutrage/iraqphotos1R/best/heller.gif

[American Patriot]

Seymor Hersh is insane.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Yep, two wrongs don’t make things right and even a few “individuals” from West Virginia can get real ugly when exposed to Middle Eastern hypocrisy.
People really need to lessen the paranoia levels and drop most of these big bad US government conspiracy theories.

BTW SFontaine, I love that political cartoon.

[Uncle Sam]

These people f-ed up royally...We know this...Thanks for rubbing it in our faces, again.

Can we move on now.

btw...Opie ****-nobody...you need to get banned, cuz all you do is try and start ****!

[joe mama]

there's only one problem with that cartoon...the arab high ground should be about 300 times higher than it is...

[Deuterium]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472
OB, do you know if Iraq was ever brought up on war crimes charges for raping and sodomizing allied POWs during the first Gulf War?

[One?]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472
OB, do you know if Iraq was ever brought up on war crimes charges for raping and sodomizing allied POWs during the first Gulf War?


why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".

[budanski]

why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".
uhm, that was because he was... if you want to omit that he's killed more arabs than any other westerner, thats your bad.

[One?]

why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".
uhm, that was because he was... if you want to omit that he's killed more muslims than any other westerner, thats your bad.

so if he did it then its gives you the righ to do it?

[Deuterium]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472
OB, do you know if Iraq was ever brought up on war crimes charges for raping and sodomizing allied POWs during the first Gulf War?


why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".

Wrong, it is not a justification. Let me be perfectly clear.

1. I got to see a detention facility daily in Iraq from Jan-Jun of this year. I know what I'm talking about.

2. I would wager you base your information only on the news you receive.

3. I have no 1st hand knowledge of any events in Abu Ghraib. I believe you don't either.

4. I KNOW/KNEW the official policy for the handling of enemy combatants, detainees, prisoners, before the public outcry and after. I don;t think you do.

5. I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units. I don’t think you have done any of these.

6. The events as depicted in the infamous pictures DID NOT REPRESENT THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THE US MILITARY or GOVERNMENT PERIOD!!!

7. The abuses were identified by the US Army, not some reporter, not some UN organization, and not some guy on an Internet forum.

8. People have been officially charged and have been and are being prosecuted for these CRIMES.

9. The investigation is on-going.


So what are we(I) trying to justify? The actions were wrong. Justice will prevail. The problem I have with you and those like you is that you automatically blame all (myself included which is why I am irate) for the crimes of a few. Is this a stain on my Army, you bet. I personally wish I could bitch-slap those waste of sperm. HOW DARE THEY dishonor my Army. No soldier buys their LAME excuses for making photos.

How is that? Is that clear enough for you?

[budanski]

so if he did it then its gives you the righ to do it?
Tell me where it is U.S. policy to have these prisoners humiliated. The ones guilty of these are being punished, so get off your high horse and don't think that a few represents the whole.

[Deuterium]

Oh and Saddam WAS worse, he WAS the leader, he DID officially and PERSONALLY torture. This is in sharp contrast with the OFFICIAL US policy. I can't see why you don't understand this. I believe it is because you HATE the US and its' people. You take every f-up and see tyranny behind it. You take every crime of an individual and automatically incriminate the society. You take every flaw and boaster your opinion.

[WoodChipper]

The U.S. should send in Harry Schmidt to drop a 500lbbomb on them. Professionals cleaning professionals I say. He'll only get a reprimand and walk. I thought the U.S army was a professional one.

[Jack Mehoff]

Islam promotes terrorism.

Fair enough?

[Deuterium]

The U.S. should send in Harry Schmidt to drop a 500lbbomb on them. Professionals cleaning professionals I say. He'll only get a reprimand and walk. I thought the U.S army was a professional one.


We are. I could bring up a little issue with the Canadian Airborne in Somalia but I realise that this was a problem with a few not the ENTIRE CANDADIAN Army. I wish you could understand. Of course your politicians didn't. Oh BTW Schmidt was US Air Force, not that it makes any difference.

[Mongrel]

As far as I'm concerned anyone that attacks the inocent such as that rat bastard Harry Schmidt, the nutbars in the CF that did what they did in Somalia, and anyone abusing prisoners...they need to do the world a favour by eating their own bullets, and moving over for those of us that are proffessional, and can do the job without being drugged up nutbars. :fork:

Keeerist I'm sick of this justification crap...if you do the same things the bad guy does..then you are no better.

Cheers!
M.

[Deuterium]

As far as I'm concerned anyone that attacks the inocent such as that rat bastard Harry Schmidt, the nutbars in the CF that did what they did in Somalia, and anyone abusing prisoners...they need to do the world a favour by eating their own bullets, and moving over for those of us that are proffessional, and can do the job without being drugged up nutbars. :fork:

Keeerist I'm sick of this justification crap...if you do the same things the bad guy does..then you are no better.

Cheers!
M.

We are better, NO ONE is justifying the actions of the accused. However I won't standby and let my nation be disparaged either.

[One?]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472
OB, do you know if Iraq was ever brought up on war crimes charges for raping and sodomizing allied POWs during the first Gulf War?


why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".

Wrong, it is not a justification. Let me be perfectly clear.

1. I got to see a detention facility daily in Iraq from Jan-Jun of this year. I know what I'm talking about.

2. I would wager you base your information only on the news you receive.

3. I have no 1st hand knowledge of any events in Abu Ghraib. I believe you don't either.

4. I KNOW/KNEW the official policy for the handling of enemy combatants, detainees, prisoners, before the public outcry and after. I don;t think you do.

5. I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units. I don’t think you have done any of these.

6. The events as depicted in the infamous pictures DID NOT REPRESENT THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THE US MILITARY or GOVERNMENT PERIOD!!!

7. The abuses were identified by the US Army, not some reporter, not some UN organization, and not some guy on an Internet forum.

8. People have been officially charged and have been and are being prosecuted for these CRIMES.

9. The investigation is on-going.


So what are we(I) trying to justify? The actions were wrong. Justice will prevail. The problem I have with you and those like you is that you automatically blame all (myself included which is why I am irate) for the crimes of a few. Is this a stain on my Army, you bet. I personally wish I could bitch-slap those waste of sperm. HOW DARE THEY dishonor my Army. No soldier buys their LAME excuses for making photos.

How is that? Is that clear enough for you?

I don't blame you or honorable soldeirs like you, I know it was a few who brought the shame. But on more than one occasion on this forum these acts were justified by saying that saddam did worst etc.. They were trying to say its alright for these soldiers to torture prisoners, because saddam did worst. So who cares.

I'm not saying its US policy to torture prisoners.

[Deuterium]

'Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised'
By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor
16 July 2004

Young male prisoners were filmed being sodomised by American soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the journalist who first revealed the abuses there.

Seymour Hersh, who reported on the torture of the prisoners in New Yorker magazine in May, told an audience in San Francisco that "it's worse". But he added that he would reveal the extent of the abuses: "I'm not done reporting on all this," he told a meeting of the American Civil Liberties Union.

He said: "The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war."

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President **** Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called "war crimes".

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=541472
OB, do you know if Iraq was ever brought up on war crimes charges for raping and sodomizing allied POWs during the first Gulf War?


why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".

Wrong, it is not a justification. Let me be perfectly clear.

1. I got to see a detention facility daily in Iraq from Jan-Jun of this year. I know what I'm talking about.

2. I would wager you base your information only on the news you receive.

3. I have no 1st hand knowledge of any events in Abu Ghraib. I believe you don't either.

4. I KNOW/KNEW the official policy for the handling of enemy combatants, detainees, prisoners, before the public outcry and after. I don;t think you do.

5. I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units. I don’t think you have done any of these.

6. The events as depicted in the infamous pictures DID NOT REPRESENT THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THE US MILITARY or GOVERNMENT PERIOD!!!

7. The abuses were identified by the US Army, not some reporter, not some UN organization, and not some guy on an Internet forum.

8. People have been officially charged and have been and are being prosecuted for these CRIMES.

9. The investigation is on-going.


So what are we(I) trying to justify? The actions were wrong. Justice will prevail. The problem I have with you and those like you is that you automatically blame all (myself included which is why I am irate) for the crimes of a few. Is this a stain on my Army, you bet. I personally wish I could bitch-slap those waste of sperm. HOW DARE THEY dishonor my Army. No soldier buys their LAME excuses for making photos.

How is that? Is that clear enough for you?

I don't blame you or honorable soldeirs like you, I know it was a few who brought the shame. But on more than one occasion on this forum these acts were justified by saying that saddam did worst etc.. They were trying to say its alright for these soldiers to torture prisoners, because saddam did worst. So who cares.

I'm not saying its US policy to torture prisoners.

I cannot argue, finally, with anything you just posted above. I agree.

[Romulus]

I'm not saying its US policy to torture prisoners.

Jesus tap dancing christ. I can't believe my ears......

[sla8485]

why do people keep justifying things by saying "oh saddam was worst".
uhm, that was because he was... if you want to omit that he's killed more muslims than any other westerner, thats your bad.

so if he did it then its gives you the righ to do it?

Thats not the point.
It's public knowledge that nobody in the world, or the US has ever said what the soldiers did at Abu Ghraib was right, or justified. The people involved are going to be brought before courts martial, and punishment (however unsatisfactory to many mid-east minds.) will be handed down. If in fact, rape videos are produced (and as yet, it's still just rumour.) the world can be certain that severe penalties will be levied against those responsible.

The point, as I see it, is that the US didn't simple roll into a perfect country, and upend the works. The US didn't go in there and introduce violence, or corruption into Iraq.. There is a looong line of crimes authored against Iraq, Kuwait, and probably Iran (though I won't for a minute attempt to snuggle up to Iran.) from the previous regime in Iraq.

It's like walking into a dump and being surprised there's rubbish about.

I had seen something on the news after the first US soldier was convicted for his part in the prison fiasco, the person who took the pictures, though didn't participate in any of the posing, or beatings, he was dishonourably discharged, and sentenced to a year in prison. When asked what they thought of the punishment, one "man on the street" was outraged, and thought the photographer should have been executed.

I think that illustrates the real point here. For Westerners, there is no real understanding the Arab mind. As an outsider, I can say "How is it that these fellows can be so outraged over a photographer, when they have lived under a regime that enforced the amputation of hands from any shop owner that dared deal in foreign currency?"

Remember, the US/UK, and other non-Arab forces currently in Iraq are considered "Infidels", just imagine what it must be like to attempt to set that aside, and accept the path that is being laid before the Iraqis by these Infidels..

We're supposed to execute photographers, but what should be done to all the holy warriors over there taking muslim lives? All those civilian casualties as the result of car bombs and IED's? We're not hearing anything about accountability are we? The friday prayers aren't including fatwas against those responsible for killing civilians.. Again, just another thing that doesn't make sense to me, and probably many others.

It's a horribly complex situation, and I don't envy the people charged with understanding it, but I do honestly hope that the average Iraqi, and the average soldier are finding something good in each other.

[One?]

Just because a few are calling the US/UK infidels doesn't mean thats the opinion of all arabs. I'm sure christian arabs don't agree. There are muslims who don't agree. And there are atheists who don't agree.

If there are 1 billion muslims you can't blame all of them. If the war on terror didn't divert from afghanistan to Iraq im 100% sure that there would be less attacks. Bin Laden and alot of his LTs are still out there. They are still being funded etc... Take care of these first and you will see a decline in attacks. Not only that but you can't say Iraqis can't stand up for themselves because they were being oppressed by the previous regime. They did stand up against that regime and they were massacared in large numbers.

If someone raped your brother what would you to him? What would you do if he was only sentenced for 1 year or given a slap on his hand?

[OB Kenobi]

Seymor Hersh is insane.

Yep, that's what they claimed before he exposed the My Lai coverup.

Well, at least he's not fat.

[Deuterium]

Seymor Hersh is insane.

Yep, that's what they claimed before he exposed the My Lai coverup.

Well, at least he's not fat.

Yet another incident exposed by....... Yes you guessed right, an American soldier. Wow there's a pattern here. The American ethic of decency will not standby and let atrocities take place without justice.

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/4592/BUDANSKI.jpg

[OB Kenobi]

Seymor Hersh is insane.

Yep, that's what they claimed before he exposed the My Lai coverup.

Well, at least he's not fat.

Yet another incident exposed by....... Yes you guessed right, an American soldier. Wow there's a pattern here. The American ethic of decency will not standby and let atrocities take place without justice.

Yes, despite the efforts of so many on forums like this one who actually feel compelled to support torture, murder, theft, etc. All while complaining about the lawlessness of "terrorists." Terrorists are just low-budget Republicans. You don't think so? Let's compare:

Republicans: Promote fundamentalist Judeo-Christian religious values.
Terrorists: Islam wouldn't exist without Judaism and Christianity.

Republicans: Generally represent corporate interests. Are supported by religious groups and charities.
Terrorists: Sometimes they're even in business together, such as the case of Salem Bin Laden and George W. Bu$h.

Republicans: Generally believe that America should control the world.
Terrorists: Believe Saudi Arabia should control the world.

Republicans: Hated Saddam for his oil and his mustache.
Terrorists: Considered Saddam an infidel and wanted him dead.

Republicans: Make most of their $$$ off oil and war.
Terrorists: Still upset about their Enron stock.

Republicans: Find numerous ways to avoid paying taxes, all while embezzling tax revenue for corporate welfare.
Terrorists: Don't pay taxes at all.

Republicans: Are opposed to workers' rights, unions, benefits. Hire illegal aliens or outsource for slaves' wages.
Terrorists: Would actually like to bring back slavery.

It just comes down to those who profit from war and terror and those who don't.

[budanski]

And who would have thought, it is a Republican president whos currently leading this War on Terrorism. Could it be infighting between these two entities that has so far cost al qaeda a host nation and Saddam a job? Can't we all just get along? :roll:

[Truthsayer]

Islam promotes terrorism.

Fair enough?

Your posts induce vomiting.

fair enough?

[Dkraver]

First i want to say this. I do not hate the US in any way. Ill admit that the president from my point of view isnt the smartest kid in the class. My country has troops in iraq and i support them in it. 5 years ago i might even have been there myself. Did a tour in bosnia in 99.

And then to my words. Reading time and time again on this forum i see people based in the US (as others already said) saying "well saddam was worse" and "its only a few people who have done it" so its nothing big and terriable.
But the problem is thats its as bad or maybe even worse than what saddam did in his time of rule. All knew what saddam was capable of doing and what he did. But when someone like the US "invade" (strong word but really the only one thats right) iraq to liberate the iraqi people and want to teach them to be democratic country with a western view of law and human rights, so the people can have a better life, and then starts doing the things taht the old regime have done. Then it puts the US on the spotlights of the world. And sure its a few people and not all of the us troops. But the signal that it sends out to the world is that US are doing the "same" thing.
There are differences yes. The soldiers that have done these things are being prosecuted, which is the only right way to do it. But the fact is they should never have done it. And from my point of view there still needs to be a invetigation into who gave those orders and let put those people on trial aswell.
Also this isnt just in iraq. Even though i dont support any of the prisoners in afghanistan or on guantanamo. You hear the same stories from those places. So its not only some single episodes.....

My point being. If you wanna teach the world how to be. Dont do like the people you are fighting and then cry and say others where worse when you are discovered doing the same things. Face the facts and admit its wrong and do something about it......

[Mongrel]

Well said Dkraver. :D

Cheers!
M.

[Jack Mehoff]

Islam promotes terrorism.

Fair enough?

Your posts induce vomiting.

fair enough?
A few U.S. soldiers tortured POWs.....BAM....it's America's fault. But when I apply the very SAME logic to Islam it's vomiting. I guess you euro pussies can't practice what you preach. Would you like some vagisil? rofl rofl

[DE_Six]

Face the facts and admit its wrong and do something about it......

Which is exactly what the US did when the US Army (and not some investigation reporter or human rights group) revealed the the situation at Abu Ghraib, investigated the case and prepares to prosecute those responsible for the abuses.
One might regret that such abuse ever occurred at all, but the US Army never shied away from its responsibility and will prosecute the perpetrators accordingly.

The US Army faced the facts, even revealed it to the public, admitted wrongdoings had been committed and is certainly doing something about it.

There lies the true distinction between a democracy and a tyranny. Crimes and atrocities can and will happen anywhere. The difference is in the way a society deals with it. A democracy forbids and punish crime, a tyranny rely on it to maintain control.

[moughoun]

Seymor Hersh is insane.

Yep, that's what they claimed before he exposed the My Lai coverup.

Well, at least he's not fat.

Yet another incident exposed by....... Yes you guessed right, an American soldier. Wow there's a pattern here. The American ethic of decency will not standby and let atrocities take place without justice.

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/4592/BUDANSKI.jpg

I don't think ethics or common decency are a soley American perogative

[chauncy republicans]

I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units.
rofl

[Jack Mehoff]

I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units.
rofl

What's so funny?

[100_Percent_HOOAH]

I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units.
rofl

What's so funny?

That's what I'd like to know.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Jeezus - I don't mean to interrupt the hate fest...but has anybody noticed something missing? The videos. Show me the videos, and I'll become appropriately outraged.

In the meantime, I'll just say that I have video of Hersh backdooring Price Charles. Honest, I do.

Until I see something, this is nothing more than an another attempt to boost advertising dollars.

[Deuterium]

Islam promotes terrorism.

Fair enough?

Your posts induce vomiting.

fair enough?
A few U.S. soldiers tortured POWs.....BAM....it's America's fault. But when I apply the very SAME logic to Islam it's vomiting. I guess you euro pussies can't practice what you preach. Would you like some vagisil? rofl rofl

This argument is going nowhere. I and the rest of the US military have been tarred and feathered by the actions of less than 10 people. These people, acting on their own poor judgment and acting outside the norms of well known US Military codes of conduct do not represent my military. If YOU can't understand this then too bad. Continue on with your incoherent ranting. You've just lost one of the few (if ANY) current Special Forces operators that frequent this discussion. You KIDS can now talk amongst yourselves. Lastly. Jack is 100% correct in his above statement.


OUT.

[Mongrel]

All militarys needs to cull these wingnuts out...they do more harm then good...even a few are waaay to much trouble. According to my old relitives, back in In WW2 they used to be kept around only to be a 'gas sniffer/mine detectors'.

I say hand them over to their peers to deal with..yah know the guys and gals on the line every day having to take extra special BS, bullets, and flack from the enemy becouse of this Prison crap. Let a bunch of women Marines wipe the smug look off that chicken farmer bitches face. :slap:
I'd pay to see that Vid.

'Taking deep breath'...I'm sure everything will come out in the wash in time.

I only hope the judge doesn't let them walk with only a slap on the wrist like all the other cases that have come up over the years.

BTW: What people don't know is when the Can' Airborne ****e hit the fan regarding Somalia, and those two jerk members that didn't deserve the uniform...all across Canada old members of that unit tore their home banners down in disgust.

Next the unit was disbanded, IMHO the same needs to happen to the one in that prison. As when you have dragged the units standard through the mud then it is no longer worth following. At least that is what I have been taught.

Cheers!
M.

[Dkraver]

Islam promotes terrorism.

Fair enough?

Your posts induce vomiting.

fair enough?
A few U.S. soldiers tortured POWs.....BAM....it's America's fault. But when I apply the very SAME logic to Islam it's vomiting. I guess you euro pussies can't practice what you preach. Would you like some vagisil? rofl rofl
This isnt really about the amount of soldiers who have done this. ITs about that it shouldnt have been done in the first place. A lot of US based people on this board are more interested in looking in the other direction and saying other guys are doing the same or worse. Well yeah ok thats right they are bad, thats why we are fighting them. But when WE (the western world, not only the US) starts doing the same things to those people, when trying to liberate and help other coutries from those people. WE make the civilians think of us as the same kind of people that they liberated from.
Its not the normal US soldiers or US civilians fault. But the focus is on the US Army because its them who made the mistake. Same thing happend in somalia (or eritrea cant remember now) to the italiens when some of there soldiers raped and torture young civilian girls for fun.
And this isnt random incidents. The things happends in afghanistan and guantanamo aswell. So at some point orders are coming down the lines saying that this shall be done to the prisoners.
As i said in my other post:

If you wanna teach the world how to be. Dont do like the people you are fighting and then cry and say others where worse when you are discovered doing the same things. Face the facts and admit its wrong and do something about it......
And last. Calling people euro pussies because they dont think like you is plain stupid. My country have more troops in iraq and afghanistan than the US if you look at a soldier vs amount of citizens ratio.

You cant rid terror from the world if you terrorise the people you liberate...

[budanski]

My country have more troops in iraq and afghanistan than the US if you look at a soldier vs amount of citizens ratio.
NewsFlash. We have a volunteer force, your country has a conscription force.

[usa320]

I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units.

Chauncy Republicans Wrote:

rofl



Chauncy your an idiot...

Deut is speaking the truth... Hes with SOF...anyone whos been here a decent amount of time knows that, as hes gone as far as to post pictures.

[Jack Mehoff]

I have worked with CIA, DIA, DHS, NSA, MPs, SOF(I'm a member) and MI units.

Chauncy Republicans Wrote:

rofl



Chauncy your an idiot...

Deut is speaking the truth... Hes with SOF...anyone whos been here a decent amount of time knows that, as hes gone as far as to post pictures.


Most dumbasses new in this forum like to make early assumption. Don't mind chauncy,

[Romulus]

ITs about that it shouldnt have been done in the first place. A lot of US based people on this board are more interested in looking in the other direction and saying other guys are doing the same or worse.

Since when do we possess the devine power that controls what every soilder thinks and does at any time during his service?


The things happends in afghanistan and guantanamo aswell.

Any proof?



Face the facts and admit its wrong and do something about it......

We discovered it, we investegated it, we've stated over and over again this is not acceptable, and we are punishing those in charge of it. What the hell do you not understand about "We are handling it" ?

[Mongrel]

Romulus wrote: "Since when do we possess the devine power that controls what every soilder thinks and does at any time during his service?"

It's called LEADERSHIP, and not having the CO's isolating themselves off away from their men all the time in little officer groups.

Cheers!
M.

[OB Kenobi]

6. The events as depicted in the infamous pictures DID NOT REPRESENT THE OFFICIAL POLICY OF THE US MILITARY or GOVERNMENT PERIOD!!!

However, they are the official policy of the CIA, DIA and associated private contractors and hirelings as proven numerous times over the past ~40 years. This is not even a debatable subject, it is well known fact.

Just one example, which you're probably aware of:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB122/

I could even claim that by extension this means that the US government DOES condone such behaviour, and I would not be wrong. It's a dirty little secret, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a country that doesn't support some level of "torture" in times of overt conflict.

But I think the scale in which it was being done in Iraq and Afghanistan (and via Guantanamo) is going a bit over the line. This was not the torture of a few wanted suspects, this was systematic and widespread, and innocent people were being abused for no reason other than negligence and hatred.

Video of Seymour Hersch talking about the Abu Ghraib videos (very long and boring, but in case you're interested):

http://stream.realimpact.net/?file=clients/aclu/conf2004/20040707_aclu_AmericaAtACrossroads_300.rm&start=1:07:51

[Dkraver]

My country have more troops in iraq and afghanistan than the US if you look at a soldier vs amount of citizens ratio.
NewsFlash. We have a volunteer force, your country has a conscription force.
NewsFlash. Yeah we have a army based on conscription. BUT people doing international operations are a volunteer force who either signs a contract saying they want to willing to go after there conscription time is over OR are people who are making a living as soldiers, just like your standard US soldier. No conscription soldier are doing international duty. And no soldier are being forced to go....

[Dkraver]

ITs about that it shouldnt have been done in the first place. A lot of US based people on this board are more interested in looking in the other direction and saying other guys are doing the same or worse.

Since when do we possess the devine power that controls what every soilder thinks and does at any time during his service?


It's called LEADERSHIP
M.
This isnt something that was done in half an hour. Its was a continiuos thing.



The things happends in afghanistan and guantanamo aswell.

Any proof?
Read your daily news........



Face the facts and admit its wrong and do something about it......

We discovered it, we investegated it, we've stated over and over again this is not acceptable, and we are punishing those in charge of it. What the hell do you not understand about "We are handling it" ?
If you read my posts youll see that i actually says the the army are doing something about it. That line is for the people on this board who keeps saying that its ok because the other did it aswell...

[OB Kenobi]

We discovered it, we investegated it, we've stated over and over again this is not acceptable, and we are punishing those in charge of it. What the hell do you not understand about "We are handling it" ?

I don't understand why Donald Rumsfeld is not being prosecuted. Or even ANY senior leaders like Sanchez, etc. The only ones being prosecuted are a few expendable scapegoats who were following orders.

[Truthsayer]

My country have more troops in iraq and afghanistan than the US if you look at a soldier vs amount of citizens ratio.
NewsFlash. We have a volunteer force, your country has a conscription force.

Ah, showing your ignorance of the worlds military-forces again, are we?

As you can read in dk's post, all scandinavian countries base their UN and peace-keeping troops on volunteer-forces only.

Conscription is for defence.