Award highlights Russia's rights threat

[Derbedeu]

Memorial, which has won the European Union's Sakharov Prize, is one of the few human rights groups in Russia willing to speak out about cases of alleged kidnapping, torture and extrajudicial killings by Russian forces.
The European Parliament, announcing the prestigious award, said it was intended to signal that all such groups in Russia should be free to voice their thoughts without fear or violent reprisals.
Memorial chairman Oleg Orlov, who was cited personally by the awarding panel, said the prize inspired the organisation to continue working despite the constant setbacks and obstacles put in its way by the Russian government.
"It is very important for us. It is a recognition of how important our work is," he said.
"It assures us that we are moving in the right direction in these difficult times. Sometimes we feel like giving up. We work hard, but we fail to achieve any significant results."
High-profile murders
Memorial is the largest human rights group in Russia.
Its offices have been raided, it has been issued with lawsuits and some of its workers have been attacked and killed.
Natalya Estemirova, who worked for Memorial in Chechnya, was one of those victims.
In July this year she was abducted from her home, shot several times in the head and her body was dumped in a forest in the neighbouring republic of Ingushetia.
Her attackers have so far not been found.
For Memorial, her death meant the end of its presence in the region. It was too dangerous to send anyone to replace her.
But Natalya Estemirova is simply the latest in a string of high-profile murders and beatings across Russia.
Over the past three years - notably since the death of journalist Anna Politkovskaya in 2006 - others have died too.
Just two months ago Maksharip Aushev, who campaigned against abuses by security forces in the republic of Ingushetia, died in a hail of bullets fired from a passing car.
Others include human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov, shot dead on a Moscow street, journalists such as Anastasia Baburova, also shot dead, and Zarema Sadoulaeva, head of the Chechen organisation Save the Generation, found shot dead with her husband in Grozny.
Za Prava Cheloveka, another Russian human rights group, is led by Lev Ponomaryev, one of the founders of Memorial and a Soviet-era dissident.
He concentrates on defending prisoners and highlighting their conditions.
Just this year he has dealt with a lawsuit, an attempted eviction by the Moscow authorities and survived a severe beating by unknown attackers.
"If you compare it with the Soviet Union I think Russia today is a far more frightening place for human rights activists," he said.
"Then you could go to prison for a long time but they didn't kill people. Now they kill human rights activists. You might get a bullet in the head or you could be beaten like I was.
"I was beaten up by three men who silently kicked me in the head until I lost consciousness. It turned out I had been watched and then ambushed. It was no accident."
Presidential backing
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has spoken publicly of the need for non-governmental organisations to be respected and funded by the government.
He has also appointed the human rights ombudsman for a second term and created a new position of children's rights ombudsman.
There is also a new draft law that aims to repeal some of the restrictions placed on NGOs during the presidency of current Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.
Funding would be something that Memorial would be keen to see coming its way, but groups such as Memorial are often characterised by officials and sceptics as being Western-funded covers for spies - a trend sparked by comments made by Mr Putin himself several years ago.
"The government thinks that those who get money from abroad are suspicious and those that don't aren't," said Oleg Orlov.
"Who gets money from abroad? Human rights organisations who criticise the government's human rights record. These groups cannot get money from inside Russia."
So a 50,000-euro ($72,800; £40,000) prize from the European parliament - although welcome on one level - will only feed official suspicion that Memorial fits into that suspect category.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/default.stm

[Flamming_Python]

Why don't you go back to worshipping Bill Browder; who according to you did nothing wrong and was simply an innocent Westener prosecuted by the Russian regime. Of course he did steal hundreds of millions of dollars; but hey he's American, it's Russia which is making the accusations, so he must be innocent.

As for this - this is more BBC bollocks. Yes, the Kremlin is killing people - as if they have nothing more important to do than kill a bunch of human rights activists whose names and deeds only become known to the rest of the country and world after they are mysteriously asssasinated. Give me a break...

[widi243]

Why don't you go back to worshipping Bill Browder; who according to you did nothing wrong and was simply an innocent Westener prosecuted by the Russian regime. Of course he did steal hundreds of millions of dollars; but hey he's American, it's Russia which is making the accusations, so he must be innocent.

As for this - this is more BBC bollocks. Yes, the Kremlin is killing people - as if they have nothing more important to do than kill a bunch of human rights activists whose names and deeds only become known to the rest of the country and world after they are mysteriously asssasinated. Give me a break...

blah blah blah rofl

[Gammelpreusse]

Why don't you go back to worshipping Bill Browder; who according to you did nothing wrong and was simply an innocent Westener prosecuted by the Russian regime. Of course he did steal hundreds of millions of dollars; but hey he's American, it's Russia which is making the accusations, so he must be innocent.

As for this - this is more BBC bollocks. Yes, the Kremlin is killing people - as if they have nothing more important to do than kill a bunch of human rights activists whose names and deeds only become known to the rest of the country and world after they are mysteriously asssasinated. Give me a break...

Dunno. I am not believing the Kremlin speaks a name and someone gets killed. For that most human rights group in Russia are simply not important/potent enough to pose a real threat or danger.

Given the huge amount of such killings, however, one wonders who is behind that and why the russian government is not more active in protecting these potential targets. After all, that is one major role of a government, protecting it's citizens, no matter their opinions. And from an outsiders perspective, even with possibly biased western media in mind (or a media with simply different values and priorities), it makes an odd impression.

[Timmy!]

Given the huge amount of such killings, however, one wonders who is behind that and why the russian government is not more active in protecting these potential targets.
So Kovalev ans Co should get their very own bodyguards, financed by the Government?..

[Kutuzov]

blah blah blah rofl

You sir are a moron, stick to what you know drinking and eating potato salad I am sure you will excel at that.

[Frutzel]

You sir are a moron, stick to what you know drinking and eating potato salad I am sure you will excel at that.

No you are doing it wrong! Don't let yourself get caught in the spiral of retardation.

The article is......what everybody expects it to be. A day is not a good day if you didn't read an article about journalist killings in Russia.

[Derbedeu]

Why don't you go back to worshipping Bill Browder; who according to you did nothing wrong and was simply an innocent Westener prosecuted by the Russian regime. Of course he did steal hundreds of millions of dollars; but hey he's American, it's Russia which is making the accusations, so he must be innocent.

He wasn't prosecuted. A more correct term is persecuted. He was, after all, not allowed into the country anymore, and his company harassed and assets illegally seized. Culminating in the tragedy of his own Russian lawyer being effectively murdered in jail.


As for this - this is more BBC bollocks. Yes, the Kremlin is killing people - as if they have nothing more important to do than kill a bunch of human rights activists whose names and deeds only become known to the rest of the country and world after they are mysteriously asssasinated. Give me a break...

No one is alleging that the Kremlin is killing these people. They are saying that Russia has failed to adequately investigate and prosecute those behind these killings.

[Gammelpreusse]

So Kovalev ans Co should get their very own bodyguards, financed by the Government?..

Actually, in general, that is pretty much what is happening in most western countries when a person is seriously threatend of beeing killed. Police protection.
Unless they are criminals themselves.

[Flamming_Python]

He wasn't prosecuted. A more correct term is persecuted. He was, after all, not allowed into the country anymore, and his company harassed and assets illegally seized. Culminating in the tragedy of his own Russian lawyer being effectively murdered in jail.

He stole and god knows what else, he is of the same ilk as Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky and the rest of these leeches... or are you going to protest their innocence too?

Had I things my way, he would be the one that was effectively murdered in jail.

I kinda feel sorry for his lawyer though; he was just doing his job :(

[Derbedeu]

He stole and god knows what else, he is of the same ilk as Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky and the rest of these leeches... or are you going to protest their innocence too?

So why wasn't he charged then?



Had I things my way, he would be the one that was effectively murdered in jail.



:roll:

[sarhat]

Culminating in the tragedy of his own Russian lawyer being effectively murdered in jail.


He wasn't murdered, he died. I can expect that some kind of pressure was, but not killing.
And he was very important witness.

[Timmy!]

Actually, in general, that is pretty much what is happening in most western countries when a person is seriously threatend of beeing killed. Police protection.
Unless they are criminals themselves.
Back in the Soviet Union it was actually done - they were put in mental hospitals which had two good results at the same time - they were away from the angry mob and their mental health actually had a free super-vision and curing.
Nowadays people say it was very opressive, so they don't do this anymore.
Now demshiza can enjoy their freedom, albeit at their own safety's cost.

[daily666]

So, is there any other explanation of those people being killed so often?

[Timmy!]

No.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4349/putinthrone.jpg

[JCR]

Lets open a betting pool.
Who's closest to the replies this thread will get wins.
I say this thread goes above 270 replies
:)

[Hogan]

Dunno. I am not believing the Kremlin speaks a name and someone gets killed. For that most human rights group in Russia are simply not important/potent enough to pose a real threat or danger.

Given the huge amount of such killings, however, one wonders who is behind that and why the russian government is not more active in protecting these potential targets. After all, that is one major role of a government, protecting it's citizens, no matter their opinions. And from an outsiders perspective, even with possibly biased western media in mind (or a media with simply different values and priorities), it makes an odd impression.

One would be naive to think the pouting putin regieme isn't behind a few of the mysterious deaths. :(

In any case; On the corruption scale of 1-10, Russia is probably about a 8. Yes, corruption is fairly common; and Yes, peaple get killed for talking.

[Flamming_Python]

One would be naive to think the pouting putin regieme isn't behind a few of the mysterious deaths. :(

In any case; On the corruption scale of 1-10, Russia is probably about a 8. Yes, corruption is fairly common; and Yes, peaple get killed for talking.

Why would the 'regime' murder its own citizens; to what end? Even traitors and spies don't get executed; why would the Kremlin waste its time wasting people who no-one ever hears of until after their deaths and few people in the country listen to? No-one in Russia has any sympathy for people like Browder or Berezovsky; why would anyone waste their time hunting their friends and lawyers? It's not like anyone in Russia actually listens to them, or that they pose any threat to the 'regime' at all.

There are more major opposition figures like Nemtsov, etc...; but they don't get touched - otherwise it would indeed be a big scandal.

You might as well say America orchestrated 9/11; its on the same level as your BS conspiracy theories.

What I do agree with however, is that the government does not do enough to protect its own citizens. Unlawful killing is still commonplace and indeed organised criminal or other groups can and do kill people, for talking too much.

[jokuvaan]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=abM0WGWlGfrc


“We live in the Soviet Union, only a modernized, improved one,” Sergei Kovalyov, 79, said at a conference in Moscow marking the 20th anniversary of the death of dissident and Nobel Peace Prize winner Andrei Sakharov. ------------------
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/rights-activists-press-medvedev/396185.html


Heidi Hautala, chairwoman of the European Parliament’s Subcommittee on Human Rights, noted that federal ombudsmen Vladimir Lukin, who also attended Monday’s conference, had helped her enter a prison in Yekaterinburg to meet with opposition activist Alexei Nikiforov, who is serving a prison sentence on extremism charges. Nikitin was jailed for raising a banner reading “Enough of Putin!” opposite United Russia’s headquarters in Yekaterinburg last spring. “I am deeply concerned when people who peacefully demonstrate are detained and beaten. According to the Russian law, I am an extremist,” Hautala said.Hautala also said that due to EU delegation visit, many Russians have been arrested(by anti-extremist unit) and documents/computers have been confiscates in house searches. Including papers that were destined to her.

[Timmy!]

Sergei Kovalyov,
Yup, Kovalev. I've already mentioned him.
What he did to our soldiers in first Chechen is despicable and mark my word - there will be a very long line of people who will want to spit on his grave the day he dies.

[Kutuzov]

Yes, peaple get killed for talking.

O rly? Peaplerofl get killed for talking? Prove it , I am sure this knowledge of yours comes from living in my country right?


Lets open a betting pool.
Who's closest to the replies this thread will get wins.
I say this thread goes above 270 replies
:)

Your forecast is exaggerated my friend.

[Flamming_Python]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=abM0WGWlGfrc

------------------
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/rights-activists-press-medvedev/396185.html
Hautala also said that due to EU delegation visit, many Russians have been arrested(by anti-extremist unit) and documents/computers have been confiscates in house searches. Including papers that were destined to her.

Where is the proof to Hautala's words? Arrested? Kasparov himself was never detained for longer than 2-3 hours, and that was only after he broke the law.

As for Russia = new USSR, if Russia was the new USSR than this 'conference' (no doubt funded from abroad, any backround checks I'm sure will confirm this), would not have even taken place, and this guy wouldn't have been standing up there, making a fool out of himself.

[xzx]

One would be naive to think the pouting putin regieme isn't behind a few of the mysterious deaths. :(

In any case; On the corruption scale of 1-10, Russia is probably about a 8. Yes, corruption is fairly common; and Yes, peaple get killed for talking.

One would be naive to think the Bush regime isnt behind a few of the mysterious deaths of Iraqi journalists who talked too much :-(

[Frutzel]

One would be naive to think the pouting putin regieme isn't behind a few of the mysterious deaths. :(

In any case; On the corruption scale of 1-10, Russia is probably about a 8. Yes, corruption is fairly common; and Yes, peaple get killed for talking.


And there goes the thread. Why does it have allways come to this crap?

[Gammelpreusse]

And there goes the thread. Why does it have allways come to this crap?

Probably because no better explaination is offered.

[Timmy!]

How about this explanation: people are being killed for variuos reasons - by drunk chavs in the street, by some crackhead who would kill his own mother just to get one more dose, by burglars (not everyone can take a hit with metal object to his head and survive).
Out of these victims, there will be some percent of everybody - a mathematician, a lawyer, and "human rights" activist also. They aren't the poorest citizens, so to speak, that's why the pecentage of such attack is a little bit higher, compared to the average Joe.
And no, there's nothing to be proud of, criminal activity must be fought.

Also, these people are public persons, who write articles and give interviews - about the political situation, mostly. They don't work anywhere else, they do it for the living. The greed for more money could also be the reason for the Grim Reaper to visit them.

[gazell]

I'll try to offer another. Most of the people listed in the article were involved with work in Ingushetia, Chechnya. And then the lawyer of theirs. It is accusations raised against Russia as a whole of a state, not being able to protect these people in communities, who often live hundreds years back in some standards. Russia itself suffers a lot of terrorist activity from these parts.

It should be compared to someone murdered by extremists in a Western country, follows there is no democracy there. It seems a bit of a flaud argument.



Lets open a betting pool.
Who's closest to the replies this thread will get wins.
I say this thread goes above 270 replies
:)

Ah, it's much more of a common place of a topic than getting that far, unless people could stay civilised and discuss.

[Gammelpreusse]

How about this explanation: people are being killed for variuos reasons - by drunk chavs in the street, by some crackhead who would kill his own mother just to get one more dose, by burglars (not everyone can take a hit with metal object to his head and survive).
Out of these victims, there will be some percent of everybody - a mathematician, a lawyer, and "human rights" activist also. They aren't the poorest citizens, so to speak, that's why the pecentage of such attack is a little bit higher, compared to the average Joe.
And no, there's nothing to be proud of, criminal activity must be fought.

Also, these people are public persons, who write articles and give interviews - about the political situation, mostly. They don't work anywhere else, they do it for the living. The greed for more money could also be the reason for the Grim Reaper to visit them.

Possible, but if you are serious about this, then the crime rates in Russia must be phenomenal in general to justify such a rate within certain groups.

It's hard to believe in that based on mere common sense, though I am no expert on russian crime.

[Flamming_Python]

Possible, but if you are serious about this, then the crime rates in Russia must be phenomenal in general to justify such a rate within certain groups.

It's hard to believe in that based on mere common sense, though I am no expert on russian crime.

Not really, just that a certain amount of people killed each year through accidents or criminal activity happen to be human rights activists.

Russia's crime and death rates are pretty damn high; but they aren't phenomenal as such.

[Spezz]

What always struck me as weird is that if all these journalists, activists etc really do get killed by the government then why isn't there any conclusive proof for even 1 such case. Now I know it may not be easy, but still. Not to mention that foreign intelligence agencies and hired investigators would gladly provide such information to journalists should it be available.
Unless I overlooked something, there are only assumptions.

[Lector]

Just little idea that came into my mind.

It's not hard to demoralize situation in a country. There are lots of people that want current leaders of Russia off the stage. Some journalists deaths for them (opposition) isnt a big deal i guess, but with every death, more and more people stop believing in government. All the rest giants of opposition are still alive. These leeches keep trying, i just hope that they wont prevail.

[Robert.V]

Not really, just that a certain amount of people killed each year through accidents or criminal activity happen to be human rights activists.

Russia's crime and death rates are pretty damn high; but they aren't phenomenal as such.



What he said and this human rights activists tend to on occasion cross dangerous people and I don't mean government officials by this. Also the fact is a lot of this "human rights activists" aren't exactly squeaky clean.

[Mr.K]

Kovalev was celebrating when the first assault on Grozny failed.:cantbeli:
And people worship him here... Thanks a lot "human rights activist", building a carrer on young soldiers death....


"If you compare it with the Soviet Union I think Russia today is a far more frightening place for human rights activists," he said.


The only sentence I agree with. Now bad guys got guns and they are much more violent.

And before the usual accusations from the usual poles, and other frustrated central europeans, no one is saying Russia is the land of milk and honey, we ( those you like to call RussiaSTRONG), just strongly disagree when you celebrate people who's careers are built on demonizing Russia, and paint liars and hypocrites as heros.


Investigative journalism in war-zones is dangerous , period.

[Mousepad]

Heidi Hautala, chairwoman of the European Parliament’s Subcommittee on Human Rights, noted that federal ombudsmen Vladimir Lukin, who also attended Monday’s conference, had helped her enter a prison in Yekaterinburg to meet with opposition activist Alexei Nikiforov, who is serving a prison sentence on extremism charges. Nikitin was jailed for raising a banner reading “Enough of Putin!” opposite United Russia’s headquarters in Yekaterinburg last spring. “I am deeply concerned when people who peacefully demonstrate are detained and beaten. According to the Russian law, I am an extremist,” Hautala said.

What a gem, painting perfect freedom loving boy, in Putinist GESTAPO. Oh well...

Here's Alexei Nikiforov

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/Ksen--Nikiforov.jpg

1-st time he was jailed for 3 months for violation of national flag (this violation can end up to 1 year in prison) "tore it down from official building, and replaced it with Imperial or "Romanov" flag (black-yellow-white)

This guy here

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/mousepad_2008/ae021bf9357c.jpg

was immidiately fired and faces charges, even being "lap-dog of bloody Putinist regime"

About “Enough of Putin!” thingie, it was a private court case rised by a person against him, was dismissed in court coz Puting-bashing is not a crime.

He was charged again on acusations of extremism, coz guy was creating fighting cell, and recruiting in schools and colleges, spread extremist literature and such, well anybody who nows something about national-bolshevics well aware about they agenda, and paint them as regime fighters only partially right, they're pure anarchists with all blings and goodies what comes with it.

All this info i took from Nat-Bol site.

[asch]

man. how dare you to bring a voice of reason to this thread!



p-)

[Mousepad]

man. how dare you to bring a voice of reason to this thread!



p-)

I'm bored, Finnish thread got hijacked... again... And there is no more lulz for a Russkie on this Board today. :-(

[Gammelpreusse]

Not really, just that a certain amount of people killed each year through accidents or criminal activity happen to be human rights activists.

Russia's crime and death rates are pretty damn high; but they aren't phenomenal as such.

Do you happen to have numbers?

[JCR]

I'm bored, Finnish thread got hijacked... again... And there is no more lulz for a Russkie on this Board today. :-(

X2
Problem is while Russia really has some problems, it never ceases to amaze me how our press (or more, the anglophone press, our very own is moderate compared to BBC or so) always celebrates people who would've been arrested or at least criminalized if they had done the same thing for the same motives in Germany or the UK.
National bolsheviks are only one, but certainly the best example. They would've been banned as a neo nazi organisation here.