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UoUo
07-16-2004, 03:28 AM
Last Update: 16/07/2004 09:41

Jewish graves vandalized in New Zealand

By Yossi Melman, Haaretz Correspondent, and Agencies



Swastikas and Nazi slogans have been gouged around Jewish graves in New Zealand, a day after it imposed diplomatic sanctions on Israel over two Israelis - suspected by New Zealand of being spies - who tried to obtain a passport by fraud.





Sixteen graves were attacked overnight in the Jewish part of a cemetery in Wellington that dates to the 1880s, a city council spokesman said.

"Someone's used some sort of stick or tool to gouge swastikas into the grass around the graves. Words like 'Sieg Heil' have been scratched into the footpath," he said. Sieg Heil was a common Nazi salutation.

Wellington Botanic Gardens manager David Sole said the Jewish section of Bolton St. cemetery near the center of the New Zealand capital was a sea of broken marble and overturned tombstones when he visited Friday morning.

"People are speculating the attack may have been sparked by the two Israeli men and the passport case," a council spokesman said, speaking on usual condition of anonymity.

The head of the New Zealand Jewish Council said there was a direct link.

"I think there is a direct connection between the very strong expressions against Israel and people here feeling they can take it out on Jews," David Zwartz told New Zealand's National Radio.

"It seems to me Israel-bashing one day, Jew-bashing the next day."

Rabbi Antony Lipman said the desecration on the graves, some of them 100 years old, had shocked New Zealand's Jewish community.

"We hope Wellington is not going the way of some other communities in the world, where this has unfortunately become a frequent occurrence," he said.

New Zealand has frozen all high-level contact between the two countries and said the two men, jailed for six months, were linked to Israel's intelligence services.

Prime Minister Helen Clark condemned the desecration, but said any link to the passport affair was "not an open and shut" matter.

"We condemn without reservation people desecrating graves - it is a horrible thing to do," she told National Radio.

Clark also said Israel's offer of an informal apology for the passport affair was not sufficient.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said Thursday that Israel was sorry about the incident, and would seek to restore relations.

"The ball is in Israel's court as to where it wants to move from here," Clark said on National Radio. "Three months ago we asked for an apology and an explanation. That has not been forthcoming."

But she said it was possible Israel would wait until the two men had served their sentences before offering any apology.

New Zealand has small Jewish communities, but has no history of anti-Semitic behavior, with only occasional acts of vandalism of Jewish buildings.

New Zealand suspends top-level visits to and from Israel
Under the sanctions, all Israeli officials wishing to enter New Zealand are now required to acquire entry visas prior to arrival.

Clark also announced that New Zealand was unwilling to receive President Moshe Katsav during a visit that he planned to carry out in Australia and New Zealand in August.

The visits of senior delegations to and from New Zealand have also been canceled, and the credentials of the new Israeli ambassador will not be approved, while contacts with the local honorary consuls of Israel in New Zealand will be severely limited.

At the completion of a trial in Auckland on Thursday, in which Elisha Cara, 50, and Uriel Kelman, 31, were found guilty of seeking to obtain a New Zealand passport through illegal means and of belonging to a criminal organization, the two were sentenced to six months in jail and fined 50,000 New Zealand dollars.

After the court passed its verdict, Clark announced that they operated "on behalf of the intelligence services of Israel."

New Zealand Foreign Minister Phil Goff said, "We know this, the government of Israel knows this and it knows why we know" that they are agents of the Mossad. The minister suggested in an interview with Israel Radio that the arrest of the two Israelis was not an isolated incident and hinted at claims made to Haaretz by New Zealand police that the Mossad had allegedly sought to acquire as many authentic passports as possible in a long-term operation.

The New Zealand sources pointed to the fact that Cara, who claims to be a tourist agent based in Australia, entered New Zealand 24 times during the past three and a half years.

Australian daily The Age reported that Canberra had also initiated an operation to uncover whether its sovereignty had also been compromised by alleged Israeli agents.

For its part, the government of Israel is refusing to treat this as a matter involving its intelligence service and has initiated efforts to curtail the damage this affair has caused its foreign relations in general, and with New Zealand in particular.

In a short announcement issued by the Foreign Ministry, Shalom expressed "regret" at the decision of the New Zealand government to impose sanctions and said "Israel will do everything to restore the relations to normalcy."

The sanctions announced by the government of New Zealand had been decided in March, soon after the two men were arrested. The government of New Zealand refrained from making the sanctions public to avoid interference with the trial of the two suspects.

The sharp deterioration in the attitude of the New Zealand government stemmed from the failure of the government of Israel to respond to its request for an official explanation and an apology, three months ago.

Foreign Ministry sources said Thursday night that the policy of ambiguity regarding the affair was imposed on them by the Prime Minister's Office and the Mossad.

As a result of the pressure, the sources say, the handling of the matter was left to a low-level diplomat, Orna Sagiv, who is responsible for relations with New Zealand and operates from Israel's embassy in Australia.

Sources in New Zealand told Haaretz that the sanctions are purposely directed against the government of Israel and not the Israeli people.

The strongly worded announcement of the government of New Zealand stated: "Israel is a country with which New Zealand has had friendly relations for a long time. The government of New Zealand relates to the activities of the Israeli intelligence agents not only as utterly unacceptable but also as a violation of the sovereignty of New Zealand and international law."

"New Zealand condemns without reservation these actions by agencies of the Israel government," Clark said in the statement. The Israeli agents attempted to demean the integrity of the New Zealand passport system and could have created considerable difficulties for New Zealanders presenting their passports overseas in future," Clark said.

The two were arrested four months ago, when an Interior Ministry official became suspicious after speaking with a man with a Canadian accent. The man requested that the passport request be expedited, but when the official called the person in whose name the passport was to be issued, he learned that the individual in question was seriously handicapped.




Broken headstones lying on the ground in a New Zealand cemetery on Friday, a day after New Zealand imposed diplomatic sanctions on Israel. (*******)






:bash: :(

StarvingStudent47
07-16-2004, 05:06 AM
I hope that the New Zealand government tracks down those responsible and then proceeds to "throw the book" at them.

I'm sure one or two African nationals have tried to get US passports through fraud. Doesn't mean it's okay to go burn a cross in front of an African-American's home in response. The very idea of carving 'Sieg Heil" on a 100-year-old gravestone because of some modern spy scandal blows my mind.

sgt.pepper
07-16-2004, 06:07 AM
Mossad reputation is constantly going down.

UoUo
07-16-2004, 06:45 AM
Mossad reputation is constantly going down.

Read the book "the mossad and the mytos" that will answer your que..


BTW: we don't even sure that they were Mossad agent...

ככה שההפך הוא הנכון זה שמייחסים למוסד כל דבר רק מעצים את המיתוס

Javehn
07-16-2004, 06:46 AM
Mossad reputation is constantly going down.


Who said it was Mosad agents (except of panicking New-Zealanders ) ?

Not everyone who frowds passport and have Israeli accent is Mosad agents . I think Mosad is not that stupid yet to send someone with heavy Israeli accent to do any job .

Then we probably have 200,000 Mosad agents travveling across the world right now rofl rofl


You know , I heard that because of high sheep consentration in NZ , there is an Ozone hole in the first place (because of the methane gas that's comming from the sheep's fart) . I think it's time to open some can of whoopass for NZ .

GrimReaper
07-16-2004, 06:57 AM
This isn't a mossad agent, it's the irish criminal "The General".
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3135/israelis_wideweb__430x3401.jpg

http://img5.exs.cx/img5/2090/bg-jv-2.jpg
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/2045/bg-1.jpg

Either that, or the Mossad has invaded the Irish crime scene :D

GazB
07-16-2004, 07:26 AM
The attacks on the jewish property was unfortunate but unrelated.

The Two Israelis attempting to get NZ passports illegally might have been innocent ad the act of two Israelis rather than anything more, but how can we know. Our PM seems to think there was something more... and she has access to more information than we are.

The simple facts remain that in the past Israeli nationals have used foreign passports in the past to hide assassins... including recently Canadian passports. This is a threat to all New Zealanders who travel around the world now and in the near future.

Israeli sources have stated they would do anything to resolve this issue... anything it seems except appologise or if they have no need to appologise to talk to us and explain their view of the action.

UoUo
07-16-2004, 07:31 AM
The attacks on the jewish property was unfortunate but unrelated.

The Two Israelis attempting to get NZ passports illegally might have been innocent ad the act of two Israelis rather than anything more, but how can we know. Our PM seems to think there was something more... and she has access to more information than we are.

The simple facts remain that in the past Israeli nationals have used foreign passports in the past to hide assassins... including recently Canadian passports. This is a threat to all New Zealanders who travel around the world now and in the near future.

Israeli sources have stated they would do anything to resolve this issue... anything it seems except appologise or if they have no need to appologise to talk to us and explain their view of the action.

I can bet if those "agents" were from France..you wouldn't do such big scandal out of that.

cut
07-16-2004, 07:36 AM
The attacks on the jewish property was unfortunate but unrelated.

The Two Israelis attempting to get NZ passports illegally might have been innocent ad the act of two Israelis rather than anything more, but how can we know. Our PM seems to think there was something more... and she has access to more information than we are.

The simple facts remain that in the past Israeli nationals have used foreign passports in the past to hide assassins... including recently Canadian passports. This is a threat to all New Zealanders who travel around the world now and in the near future.

Israeli sources have stated they would do anything to resolve this issue... anything it seems except appologise or if they have no need to appologise to talk to us and explain their view of the action.

I can bet if those "agents" were from France..you wouldn't do such big scandal out of that.

french assasins ;) rofl

Flagg
07-16-2004, 07:41 AM
As a New Zealander I am quite embarrassed by the behavior of the ignorant and idiotic few who have perpetrated such a vile hate crime.

I hope they are punished to the furthest extent of the law.

This does not in any way represent New Zealanders....like all places, unfortunately...some @ssholes exist.


You know , I heard that because of high sheep consentration in NZ , there is an Ozone hole in the first place (because of the methane gas that's comming from the sheep's fart) . I think it's time to open some can of whoopass for NZ .

As for your comments Javehn, I think it wise for you to sort your sh!t out.

Please realise the hypocricy of your words.........your awkward attempt at a joke coming at the expense of New Zealanders is completely counterproductive.

What do you wish to accomplish by saying such vile crap?

I suspect it is largely due to Israel's recent embarrassing misadventures here in NZ.


I think it's time to open some can of whoopass for NZ

You can try.....you will fail.....and the only thing you will accomplish is the degradation of your credibility.

Flagg
07-16-2004, 07:51 AM
I can bet if those "agents" were from France..you wouldn't do such big scandal out of that.

I bet you're wrong......in fact history proves you are.......and I think you know that.....quit with the flame bait.....contribute something relevant instead of just hurling insults that undermine your declining credibility.

Javehn
07-16-2004, 07:54 AM
You can try.....you will fail.....and the only thing you will accomplish is the degradation of your credibility.

Are you going to cry now ? Is that because I said that no one gives a **** about NZ ? Did I heart your national pride ? Is that small ***** sindrom I see here ?


As for your comments Javehn, I think it wise for you to sort your sh!t out.

Please realise the hypocricy of your words.........your awkward attempt at a joke coming at the expense of New Zealanders is completely counterproductive.

Hypocrisy ? Because I said your sheeps fart ? What's with the unsecure feelings ? You really have small ***** syndrom .


You can try.....you will fail.....and the only thing you will accomplish is the degradation of your credibility.


We can try ? Why the hell we should try ? What we forgot there ? And we will fail ? Who will stop us ? :roll: :lol: NZ army band ?? rofl



Band
The NZ Army Band is internationally recognised. To find out where you can listen to the band or for information on becoming a member, see this section.

Or your excellent military cooks ? :roll:
But no , thanks , you can keep your house .


Israeli sources have stated they would do anything to resolve this issue... anything it seems except appologise or if they have no need to appologise to talk to us and explain their view of the action.

Must be a phantom from your news coverage . Sence in our news this takes a little place . Infact , Israeli government can't get less interested then it is now .


You know what I think ? Someone tries to cover the fact that people try to forge new NZ passports , and to get out from it with some shred of respect , NZ officials have invented some nice legend that Mossad itself tried to do it .

UoUo
07-16-2004, 08:02 AM
the nez zealand government is very propalstinain right?

mack pl
07-16-2004, 08:08 AM
the New Zeland government is very propalestinian right?
dunno but...

something wrong with that?

they are independent state...

:|

shalom alehem UoUo kid....

MEGR
07-16-2004, 08:10 AM
I have a feeling that this is going to turn into another "about nothing thread."

UoUo
07-16-2004, 08:14 AM
the New Zeland government is very propalestinian right?
dunno but...

something wrong with that?

they are independent state...

:|

shalom alehem UoUo kid....

So who cares..they hate us anyway. :D

Djien dobry my Polish friend.

Tane Angle
07-16-2004, 08:16 AM
Tane wrote:

I think I have to defend New Zealand here-this is more or less standard procedure for when such jobs are uncovered. It's not an anti-Israel thing, it's an a pro-New Zealand's citizens thing. There is a difference between defensiveness and paranoia.

As always, have a good one, and just some thoughts...

mack pl
07-16-2004, 08:23 AM
...
Djien dobry my Polish friend...

hahaha, every nation on fukin world hates Jews :cantbeli:

poor Jews :petting:

:roll:

anyway, Dzień dobry mój Żydowski mały przyjacielu :hug:

:lol:

MEGR
07-16-2004, 08:24 AM
Yea whoever did this should obviously get arrested.

Flagg
07-16-2004, 08:26 AM
Are you going to cry now ?

Not by a long shot skippy ;)


Is that because I said that no one gives a **** about NZ ?

We like it that way......nobody cares because it's quiet, safe, and far, far away from the hellish carnage in YOUR "exciting" backyard......I hope you're enjoying the spotlight...you can have it



Did I heart your national pride ?

Nope.......you couldn't if you tried........I notice YOU throw up a hundred posts whenever anyone insults Israel.......is anyone else not allowed to defend their nations unjustly attacked(by you), or are Israelis the only one's with that right?


Is that small ***** sindrom I see here ?

Why so interested in my *****?


Hypocrisy ? Because I said your sheeps fart ? What's with the unsecure feelings ? You really have small ***** syndrom .

Again you want to know about my *****?

Shut up about my block and tackle mate....and tell your old lady to stop calling my house....I have absolutely no interest in banging her no matter how much she begs for it


We can try ?

NO, YOU can try........and your efforts thus far are weak...STOP embarassing yourself mate


Or your excellent military cooks ?
But no , thanks , you can keep your house .

So how do YOU respond when someone insults Israel in these threads? How do YOU respond when someone insults the IDF?

you are a boy.....come back when you're a man

When you can avoid initiating personal insults

When you can stay on topic

When you can avoid using the "everyone hates us" defense.....it's untrue.....unless you want it to be and make it to be

When you can acknowledge your's and your nations weaknesses, instead of just your strengths.....everyone's got them......and only boys like you deny them.

mack pl
07-16-2004, 08:38 AM
boys & girls If you like pointless discussion so much, I have something for you
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18404&start=1936

p-)

sgt.pepper
07-16-2004, 08:51 AM
HE HE javehn i would like to remind you some Mossad failures but this forum is not adequate for such a debate,keep living in your ilusion ce ya[/quote]

Javehn
07-16-2004, 08:59 AM
HE HE javehn i would like to remind you some Mossad failures but this forum is not adequate for such a debate,keep living in your ilusion ce ya[/quote]

I know very well that Mossad failes , but it makes me crazy when some NZ think they cought couple of criminals , and walla - It's Mossad . At list read how it happend .


So how do YOU respond when someone insults Israel in these threads? How do YOU respond when someone insults the IDF?

you are a boy.....come back when you're a man

IDF threads are comming back day after day . And perhaps this boy should turn to a man , but meanwhile this boy bellieves that he saw a hell lot more then you in your how much ? 40 years of life ? And day after day people write blatant lies , no less, about things I saw from day to day . In threads that repeat every day after day .
You on the other hand , insult me and writting **** in probably one of the few threads here about NZ , that anyway based on assumpition rather then any absolute tryth . You can't tell me it's absolute truth , no one probably can't in NZ .

So who is the immature and hasty over here ?

I will repeat what I think : It makes an embarrasment to Nz government that regular criminals tried to have NZ passports (and unfortunatly , yes we do have strong unproprocional crime sindicat in Israel that connected to Russian mafia ) , so someone trying to sell stories of Mossad agents themself that get cought on NZ . Very nicer . From what I have read they got cought in very unproffecional manner .

GrimReaper
07-16-2004, 09:09 AM
HE HE javehn i would like to remind you some Mossad failures but this forum is not adequate for such a debate,keep living in your ilusion ce ya

I know very well that Mossad failes , but it makes me crazy when some NZ think they cought couple of criminals , and walla - It's Mossad . At list read how it happend .
אני מקווה שאתה לא באמת מאמין במה שאתה אומר? תסתכל בפרצופים שלהם בתמונה שהבאתי, אין פה צל של ספק

Javehn
07-16-2004, 09:16 AM
איזה תמונות ? איזה פרצופים ? למה אין צל של ספק ?

בכל מקרה , זה עניין של דווקא עכשויו . הם חושבים שהם גאוני עולם , ותפסו בלי ספק
סוכני מוסד

אפילו שהם צודקים , זין בעין להם, מי הם בכלל . איך הם בטוחים שאילו סוכני מוסד ?
מה יש לנו להתעניין בניו זלנד המסריחה שלהם . זה שאני מתווכח איתו הוא בטוח במאה אחוז שזה מוסדניקים

GrimReaper
07-16-2004, 09:22 AM
זה בסדר גם אני בטוח שהם כאלה
תקרא במעריב, את הכתבה של גד שמרון ותבין מה יש לחפש שם
את התמונות שלהם במשפט העלתי בדף הראשון

Moledet
07-16-2004, 09:23 AM
HE HE javehn i would like to remind you some Mossad failures but this forum is not adequate for such a debate,keep living in your ilusion ce ya[/quote]
If you take into account that the Mossad has done thousands of operations so far than you'll see that the percent of failures is very low.

And the "agent" had a Canadain accent and not an Israeli accent.

Zarathustra
07-16-2004, 09:34 AM
...
Djien dobry my Polish friend...

hahaha, every nation on fukin world hates Jews :cantbeli:

poor Jews :petting:

:roll:


rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl :lol: ;)

UkrainianAmerican
07-16-2004, 09:41 AM
Reagardless of whether or not they were mossad agents or not, why the F*CK is the NZ government breaking off high-level diplomatic relations with Israel?
What a bunch of ****s.

P.S. O and I hope NZ is going to be as 'strict' about apprehending and sentencing the antisemetic assholes as well, and if it doesnt maybe the government should issue an'official apology' or Shut the FUUCK up.

Uncle Chô
07-16-2004, 09:44 AM
http://www.mrflix.com/twotowers_files/image007.jpg
"Look! MOSSAD agents coming toward us!"

Javehn
07-16-2004, 09:45 AM
Reagardless of whether or not they were mossad agents or not, why the F*CK is the NZ government breaking off high-level diplomatic relations with Israel?
What a bunch of ****s.

P.S. O and I hope NZ is going to be as 'strict' about apprehending and sentencing the antisemetic assholes as well, and if it doesnt maybe the government should issue an'official apology' or Shut the FUUCK up.

Exactly my problem , bitch . So someone tries to still their damn passports , bid ****ing deal (even if they are Mossad agents) . So , that's the reason for crying like hell ? Threatening with their bull**** ?

Probably as we speak , someone tries to forge some country passport . Boo ****ing whoo , big ****ing deal . Get over it , you are not special .

Here , you want my passport ? I am selling it for 5.99 .

Javehn
07-16-2004, 09:46 AM
http://www.mrflix.com/twotowers_files/image007.jpg
"Look! MOSSAD agents coming toward us!"

Good one :lol:

anonymous individual
07-16-2004, 09:56 AM
Sick act.

sgt.pepper
07-16-2004, 12:38 PM
אני מקווה שאתה לא באמת מאמין במה שאתה אומר? תסתכל בפרצופים שלהם בתמונה שהבאתי, אין פה צל של ספק אחים שלי ישראלים אל תבינו אותי לא נכון

StarvingStudent47
07-16-2004, 02:17 PM
To everyone:

I thought this thread was about the grave desecration, and there was a different thread for NZ's sanctions against Israel?

Flagg
07-16-2004, 05:11 PM
IDF threads are comming back day after day .

And neither I nor any of the other NZers posting here have been bashing Israel....yet it's perfectly OK for Israelis and "wanna be" Israelis at us?


And perhaps this boy should turn to a man

perhaps you should


but meanwhile this boy bellieves that he saw a hell lot more then you in your how much ? 40 years of life?

35.....don't be so sure sunshine

Irregardless.....your behavior is wrong.....you respond to an embarrassing episode for your government by lashing out inappropriately.



And day after day people write blatant lies , no less, about things I saw from day to day . In threads that repeat every day after day .

Go b!tch at them......cause it's not me or any of the other NZers doing it.



You on the other hand , insult me

So you insult me and my country, REPEATEDLY, I respond...and somehow I AM WRONG

Get a grip....

GrimReaper
07-16-2004, 05:41 PM
Get a grip....

Whooow, calm down there, a man your age, what about your heart? ;)
In the name of Israel, I herby offer our sincere apologies for the
Secret/Irish mafia/travel agent/ space monkey/mossad incident.
I'm sure Javehn is just edgy from the constant tank noises and grease fumes he had to put up to for three years.
ok?
now here's a nice fuzzy bunny wabbit...
http://utahrabbitrescue.com/spunk2.jpg

Moledet
07-16-2004, 05:46 PM
Irregardless.....your behavior is wrong.....you respond to an embarrassing episode for your government by lashing out inappropriately.

IMO, what that happend today is much more embarrassing to NZ than the passport fraud is to Israel.

Flagg
07-16-2004, 05:54 PM
Whooow, calm down there, a man your age, what about your heart?

My ticker's just fine mate ;)


In the name of Israel, I herby offer our sincere apologies for the
Secret/Irish mafia/travel agent/ space monkey/mossad incident.

Nice.......

Notice it was the Israelis that either started the threads, or responded inappropriately......

You can shove your "sincere apology" right up your ass sunshine :D

GazB
07-17-2004, 05:54 AM
I can bet if those "agents" were from France..you wouldn't do such big scandal out of that.

Ohh yes... everyone hates jews... sorry I forgot. You poor pathetic victim.

When French agents broke the law last time in New Zealand they were arrested when they were captured and put in Jail too and we asked for an appology from France as well. I understand it is a real double standard to do the same to these Israelis but get over it and yourself.
(Of course we did and do a lot of trade in the EU and France managed to get its agents freed through first bribes, then denials and then threats to block us from the EU markets.... they were supposed to serve 15 odd year sentences for the death of a photographer in the boat they blew up)



Hypocrisy ? Because I said your sheeps fart ? What's with the unsecure feelings ? You really have small ***** syndrom .

Actually Cows generate more than three times more methane than sheep do as they are larger animals and eat more grass.

One wonders who really has a small *****... two men from Israel are arrested for breaking the law in our country and we are the bad guys it seems... wonder how that damage even made the news on TV here because it must happen all the time since we are all supporters of the Palestinians...

uouo says so:
So who cares..they hate us anyway.

Some of us didn't, but you are giving us good reason to. Apparantly Israelis never commit crimes and if we arrest any Israelis they must be released immediately and an appology must be sent to the nearest Israeli embassy or we are anti semetic.



Nope.......you couldn't if you tried........I notice YOU throw up a hundred posts whenever anyone insults Israel.......is anyone else not allowed to defend their nations unjustly attacked(by you), or are Israelis the only one's with that right?


Bush learned preemptive self defence from the jews.


Reagardless of whether or not they were mossad agents or not, why the F*CK is the NZ government breaking off high-level diplomatic relations with Israel?
What a bunch of ****s.

We are part of Echelon and have access to intercepts worldwide. This was Mossad and it was an attempt to get NZ passports to be used for assassination or other ilegal use. Such use of NZ passports puts legitimate NZ travellers in danger. Cutting off ties to the Israeli government suggests that the chain led to government positions and not mafia connections.


IMO, what that happend today is much more embarrassing to NZ than the passport fraud is to Israel.

Embarrassing in what way? Two Israelis in prison for 6 months and then sent home, we either get an appology from Israel or we don't... even if we got one it would be completely insincere as insincere as the appology given to the Canadians. We could give a monkeys either way... we have bugger all trade with Israel... we don't even have an Israeli embassy here, so life will go on.