British Army's combat shotgun.

[bluffcove]

The British army have now got a combat shotgun,

Advice states it is not to be used in compound clearance and various reports from theatre suggest a belt of 20 from an LMG or GPMG fired from 10 thru 2 oclock is more effective than eight rounds fired from the shotgun in the greenzone.

What do people that have been out there make of it?

has anyone heard of it being used as a PDW admittedly not that small, but in terms of a "contact short" and wanting to get rounds down to make a break clean it might have something to offer?

the IW is effective to 300+ but not so instintive in a point and shoot role as a the holo' sight on the Cbt shotgun?

no photos here, sorry.

thoughts? ideas? shut up red-arrse?

[Hispeed1]

Pics or an official name would help. What was your information source? Can you please be more vague? Are you talking about the current L128A1? (Benelli M4 Super 90). Or the non-lethal Beretta LTLX7000 shotgun?

[samourai]

the british army had adopted the benelli M 4 super 90
and the LTLX 7000 are not a combat shotgun it is a less lethal weapon.
the LTLX is specialised for police or peacekeeping operation. he just fire less lethal ammunition with a fire control system.

[james21]

Video here of the new shotgun being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOL_2RfS_aU

[bluffcove]

as stated:

The British Army's Combat Shotgun. the only one we have brought in in the last 10 years, qualified by the term "new".
My source for it not to be used during compound clearance is in the respective JSP.
Feelings on employment in the greenzone, are based on JW Pams, post operational reports and after action reviews from Herricks 9, 10 and 11

naff as some of out kit might be, I dont think we have ever used the moniker "combat" for a less than lethal weapons system!

I requested views from blokes that had used it, if you aren't party to what it is then I might suggest your opinion on its employment might be equally vague?

( the video is good, but the reload sequence has since been changed (as of september 09) suggesting the video is dated)

[Red-Phos]

Video here of the new shotgun being used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOL_2RfS_aU
Has he got Parkinsons?

[Macaca sylvanus]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4122631&postcount=255

[Hispeed1]

as stated:
The British Army's Combat Shotgun : L128A1 (Benelli M4 Super 90)
naff as some of out kit might be, I dont think we have ever used the moniker "combat" for a less than lethal weapons system!
I requested views from blokes that had used it, if you aren't party to what it is then I might suggest your opinion on its employment might be equally vague?
( the video is good, but the reload sequence has since been changed (as of september 09) suggesting the video is dated)

Fixed for you /\ now the users will be clear on the shotgun model you're asking about and can help you out more mate. Cheers. I have shot that Benelli, just not the British model. Out.

"The Iraqi army have now got a combat shotgun," Please give me information. Lol-wut?

[bluffcove]

Has he got Parkinsons?

reloading the correct way up is a ball ache,
present drill is to flick the pistol grip over, hold the weapon with the reloading gate uppermost and reload with the left hand pushing cartridges down and forward, you can hold about four carts in your lefth and to do this rather than the example shown loading one at a time.

[The Evil Doctor Faustus]

Has he got Parkinsons?

no, he's just obese

[bluffcove]

Im thinking it must be a TA lot!
or the HQ company?
but there are far too many leg holsters going on and far too many fore grips at the muzzle end of the rail to be proper people!

[The Evil Doctor Faustus]

Im thinking it must be a TA lot!
or the HQ company?
but there are far too many leg holsters going on and far too many fore grips at the muzzle end of the rail to be proper people!

mustve burned 15lbs trying to get that thing round his buttery thighs 45mins before the cameras were rolling...

[bluffcove]

dont start me on fat people in the army!
Iv had a bad week!

[The Evil Doctor Faustus]

being a fat person in the army? or tolerating them???

[bluffcove]

Tolerating them!
why the chuff, do we make combats in sizes that will never fit round an athletic person?
if you are over a 40 inch waist the army should refuse to clothe you!

[The Evil Doctor Faustus]

more to the point, refuse to feed them!

[Hauser]

Yeah, this video is pretty dated, remember seeing stills from this event months ago, when the shotgun was first announced.

[bluffcove]

so....

back to the original question.

the Bennelli m-4 super 90. not that hot in the greenzone, not recommended for compound clearance, how is it being employed in theatre?

[martinexsquaddie]

you have to feed them.
you seen a hungry storeman not pleasant:)

its not fat its the body armour ( my brothers excuse)
so you wear osprey under a t shirt when on Rand R

[RAFREGT.]

am i missing something here? why are we saying we have NOW got a combat shotgun? I've used the browning in Belize several times, right back as far as 1990, and i'm sure its been in service since the 50's. worked just fine....

[bluffcove]

it is a new shotgun - made by benelli not browning.

the question I was trying to resolve was how is it being employed, as the LMG is superior to the shotgun at point in the GZ, and the weapon is not recommended for compounf clearance.

so far we have had a row about its name, a few digs at fat people, an argument over its designation and little to no clarification as to its use.

Jesus wept.

[kraut783]

The weapon has been used extensively with the U.S. Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan for many years, it's been proven as a good combat shotgun in the desert enviroment. I think it would be a good addition to the British forces.

[bluffcove]

good as in "fit for task"
what is its task?

[Catch22]

Im wondering too... Breaching? Psychological effect? Stray dog shooting? Its still far too long for most FIBUA tasks.

[Britishhawk]

good as in "fit for task"
what is its task?

Blowing off door locks etc. Ive also seen videos of it being used as a 'combat shotgun'.. meaning users actually shooting at the Taliban with it, ill try to find it for you.

[Catch22]

Hmm, as little as I know about breaching with shotgun - this one is far too long for the task, assuming the door you want to breach are a tad stronger than straw hut and you need to fire several tungsten powder shells at one lock or hinge at diffrent angles.

[bluffcove]

lets take it back to first steps, ignoring videos you have seen and hypotheses,

"when you were in Afghanistan, who carried the weapon, and where was it superior to an IW or LMG?"

[kraut783]

In Afghanistan around 2002 one of my jobs was talking to the common people, meetings with area mayors, warlords, red crescent persons, NGO's and such. When in large crowds, market places, I carried the benelli M4 and found it a good fit for the enviroment.

[gafkiwi]

As a combat shotgun it can be employed in the following ways,

As a lead scout weapon in jungle/ close country (or maize,corn fields), dumping 8 rds of '00' in the general direction of an enemy whilst initiating or comming under contact. At which point it is dropped on sling and IW comes into play. AAR's have reported contacts taking place from 0-20m within the dense bush and crop fields. A good way to indicate direction of enemy to the rest of the team/section and also help regain the initiative with a heavy weight of fire. (As used during the Malaya Emergancy and other jungle conflicts since)

In the urban setting it can be used for breaching, and this isnt only limited to frangible/breaching munitions, '00' can also be used as a limited alternative on some building types. It isnt as short/compact as an 870 with its stock removed but will do the job.

The issue wth the M-4 is its a semi, If used for breaching it will reload its self, Pumps can be left with an empty chamber once a door/hinge/lock gives allowing the breacher to go back to his primary weapon prior to entry without a "Hot" weapon slung.

These maybe the reasons some say it is better than an IW or LSW in some situations.

The NZDF adopted the M-3 model from benalli as its pump and semi. It allows non lethal amuntion to be used (it doesnt work well in semis) or breaching on pump, and with the turn of a dial semi as a combat shot gun with lethal ammo types etc.

[Hauser]

The issue wth the M-4 is its a semi, If used for breaching it will reload its self, Pumps can be left with an empty chamber once a door/hinge/lock gives allowing the breacher to go back to his primary weapon prior to entry without a "Hot" weapon slung.

Just wondering anyone know if breaching rounds are high pressure, or low enough that they will not cycle the action?

[gafkiwi]

Only used them (frangible) in an 870 (pump) so unsure, I couldn't honestly say, they may do but some are longer than normal rds so may notg chamber. There are some other breaching rds out there that have a hell of alot more grunt than these that may do. Unless you are stuck with a semi (m4) only platform its not really a biggy.