Forensic Handwritting Analysis

[Hot Lips]

Pretend someone you love has been accused of a crime and the most damning evidence against them is the testimony of an handwritting analysis expert that a handwritten document linked to the crime was written by your loved one.

Understand that the primary rules of this science are:

1] No two people write the same way
2] No individual writes the same way twice

Also, understand that the person doing the analysis knows that one of the samples belongs to your loved one and that they are accused of a crime. No anonymous/bogus samples (such as in a police line up) are provided to the scientist.

Is this enough to convict?
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p.s. Yes this is Hypothetical. No, no one I love is accused of a crime. Just a topic I want to read how others feel.

[hank]

Yes, happens all the time. Funny thing is that handwriting analysis was accepted by the courts a long time ago under a standard for admitting expert testimony that no longer applies after a Supreme Court decision from the 1990's. Many evidence experts say that if a handwriting expert had to pass the current test that maybe handwriting analysis would not be admitted. This type of analysis has lead to almost as many "bad" convictions as eye-witnesses.

Courts are just so used to accepting these "experts" that even if a saavy defense attorney questions it, the courts let the expert testify. Unfortunately, juries are so "blinded by science" that they believe the expert without questioning him. If the defendant can afford to get his own expert to refute the testimony, then the jury gets confused and anything can happen then.

This is an area of the law that may well change in the coming years.

Good topic

hank

[Hot Lips]

I was on jury duty a while back and they brought in a handwritting expert. This "expert" was about 27 years old with about 2 years of lab experience and very arrogant in my opinion. She spent more time rattling off her educational accomplishments than she did explaining this science. Her explaination was basically what I wrote above. My first thought was "WTF? If I was facing 10-20 years on prison you better have something more profound than that as your rules. If even I won't write the same way twice how can you hope to eliminate any reasonable doubt".

She showed us 10 handwritting samples. One from evidence and 9 the defendant was forced to provide later. She said her job "was to prove the known samples were the same as sample in evidence".

That told me right there that she was biased. Her job was to compare them period. She should have no expectations of proving or disproving.

I think that the scientist should NOT know which is the known sample and that the rest should consist of both the defendents samples and some forgeries.... by an "expert" in forgery (tehee). Then the scientist should be asked to determine.... which match and which don't. If the scientist can accurately pick out the defendents known samples as coming form one person and the forged samples as coming form one or more forgers and then either lists the known samples as not matching any.... or matching the defendents sample.... THEN and only then could I accept this as proof beyond reasonable doubt.

[hank]

That is really cool that you got to see that. I've seen a lot of trial but I've never seen a handwriting expert. You are also a lot cooler customer than most jurors. The empirical data on experts' effect of jurors is that most (like nearly 100%) jurors believe an "expert" no matter what. IN cases of dueling experts it becomes a crapshoot and jurors tend to vote forr the expert they "likes" more. Trials really are an inexact science.

What a cool experience you had.

hank

[Hot Lips]

There was fingerprint evidence and video in my case and that convinced me. I couldn't believe how many of the other jurors were talking about the handwritting expert. I asked the one woman "Do you want to go to prison for 20 years based on a science with the primary rules of [see above]?". I don't think she ever comprehended what those rules meant. It's like tossing a coin in the air and yelling "heads I win, tails you lose".

[Herrmannek]

I think you shouldn't alow other than blind and in ocassions like that double blind tests in your courts... And you should get ride of jury consisted of "12 angry man" who barely ended ?highschool? chosed by ratial, religious, ****** parities(I never heard its fully montecarlo procedure) having no competition at all to follow and judge evidences... If I must be hunged at least fully profesionally for God's sake :)... BTW dou you have any federal/state list of aporved evidences and methods, or any crazy expert can make points :) ?

My knowledge about judgment system in USA is very fractional and often cinematic, so explanations and small flame fight is expected :)

[hank]

I think you shouldn't alow other than blind and in ocassions like that double blind tests in your courts... And you should get ride of jury consisted of "12 angry man" who barely ended ?highschool? chosed by ratial, religious, ****** parities(I never heard its fully montecarlo procedure) having no competition at all to follow and judge evidences... If I must be hunged at least fully profesionally for God's sake :)... BTW dou you have any federal/state list of aporved evidences and methods, or any crazy expert can make points :) ?

My knowledge about judgment system in USA is very fractional and often cinematic, so explanations and small flame fight is expected :)

Yes there is a test, I won't go intothe elements but there is a test.

As for no juries you would be making a bad choice. Judges think eveybody is guilty. The empirical data is that you are more likely to get acquitted by a jury than a judge. In civil trial, however, juries give much higher awards so plaintiffs love them

No disrespect intended, but we have juries for a reason. Our forefathers had spent a lot of time in the English "law" courts and had had enough of the King's/Queen's "justice". Best way to do that is to put the power in the people. Imperfect to be sure but much better than "professionals" as you say.

hank

[Hot Lips]

What are the prerequisites, rules, and continued education requirements for a "professional" juror?

[hank]

What are the prerequisites, rules, and continued education requirements for a "professional" juror?

I thought he meant bench trials where the judge does the role of juror. If he meant this then he is FOS.

hank