Irish atheists use Bjork, Mark Twain to challenge blasphemy law

[LaoSexMachine]

Irish atheists use Bjork, Mark Twain to challenge blasphemy law

STORY HIGHLIGHTS


Law, making blasphemy a crime punishable by a $35,800 fine, came into effect January 1
Atheist group: Law is "silly and dangerous," provides an incentive for religious outrage
Group produces "blasphemous" quotations including words of Jesus, Muhammad, Mark Twain



RELATED TOPICS


Atheism and Agnosticism (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Atheism_and_Agnosticism)
Religion (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Religion)
Ireland (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Ireland)



(CNN) -- An Irish atheist group has published a series of quotations on religion in an attempt to challenge a blasphemy law that went into effect on New Year's Day.
The 25 "blasphemous" quotations include the words of Jesus, Mohammed, Mark Twain, Salman Rushdie and Bjork.
Atheist Ireland published the list on its Web site Friday. It says it aims to challenge the law, which makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a &euro25,000-($35,800) fine.
"Despite these quotes being abusive and insulting in relation to matters held sacred by various religions, we unreservedly support the right of these people to have published or uttered them," the group said on the site.
"We unreservedly support the right of any Irish citizen to make comparable statements about matters held sacred by any religion without fear of being criminalized, and without having to prove to a court that a reasonable person would find any particular value in the statement."
Lawmakers in staunchly Catholic Ireland passed the law in July, but it came into force January 1.
A person breaks the law by saying or publishing anything "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion."
Those found guilty of breaking the blasphemy law may try to defend themselves by proving that a reasonable person would find literary, artistic, political, scientific or academic value in what they said or published, the law says.
Atheist Ireland called the law "silly and dangerous," because it provides an incentive for religious outrage.
"We believe in the golden rule: that we have a right to be treated justly, and that we have a responsibility to treat other people justly," the group said.
"Blasphemy laws are unjust: They silence people in order to protect ideas. In a civilized society, people have a right to to express and to hear ideas about religion even if other people find those ideas to be outrageous."
The group urged the Irish government to repeal the law. It also asked lawmakers for a referendum on removing all references to God from the Irish constitution.
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Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/02/ireland.blasphemy.law/index.html

[Mike Keenan]

It is a stupid law, I don't why it was allowed.

[pieisawesome]

I glanced over the title and thought it said Iran.

[stonecutter]

Blasphemy? Serious?? What is this, the 12th century? Christ almighty.

[2495]

I was in Dublin a few years back at a bar when a young girl lept up onto a table, and proceeded to dance... and fall into a stack of pint glasses and getting severly injured..

[I have a weird swear word 'combo' ability that is not for the religiously inclined.]

" Holy J3sus f#cking Mary in the arse" slipped out.

A bar full of Catholics patched the girl up with me, and after she was in the ambulance all loaded and off I was stood at the bar feeling all hero when a dozen or so p1ssed off locals with a spokesman said 'oi, sweary bollocks, come here, we want a word'..


If I did that now I'd get a massive fine instead of the sh1t beat out me? sod that. Rather take the lumps cheers.

[seraosha]

If you guys don't like that law (in Ireland) then you ought to look up the "Combating the Defamation of Religion" legislation passed by the UN.

[PeterG]

Ireland would be better off abolishing the church alltogether, in the wake of the huge numbers of cases involving physical and ****** abuse of children.. It is obvious that the church is basically an organization where pedophiles and sociopaths can come in contact with children. Everybody is so worried about causing 'outrage' among the religious. Fewer seem to care about protecting society from the religious predators, and generally barking mad believers.

I am 'outraged' at religious people. Idiots.

[bersaglieri]

A person breaks the law by saying or publishing anything "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion."Surely they have actually just banned religion itself? Just about every religion's tracts say things about non-believers which would be grossly abusive etc to the adherents of other religions.

[Playtime]

Ireland would be better off abolishing the church alltogether, in the wake of the huge numbers of cases involving physical and ****** abuse of children.. It is obvious that the church is basically an organization where pedophiles and sociopaths can come in contact with children. Everybody is so worried about causing 'outrage' among the religious. Fewer seem to care about protecting society from the religious predators, and generally barking mad believers.

I am 'outraged' at religious people. Idiots.

Woooahhhh... careful there.. I said roughly the same thing sometime back and someone obviously got sooOOoo offended that I got served an infraction.

[Thugut]

Begorrah!

http://blasphemy.ie/2010/01/01/atheist-ireland-publishes-25-blasphemous-quotes/




15. George Carlin, 1999: “Religion easily has the greatest bull**** story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, talk about a good bull**** story. Holy ****!”

20. Pope Benedict XVI quoting a 14th century Byzantine emperor, 2006: “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” This statement has already led to both outrage and condemnation of the outrage. The Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the world’s largest Muslim body, said it was a “character assassination of the prophet Muhammad”. The Malaysian Prime Minister said that “the Pope must not take lightly the spread of outrage that has been created.” Pakistan’s foreign Ministry spokesperson said that “anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence”. The European Commission said that “reactions which are disproportionate and which are tantamount to rejecting freedom of speech are unacceptable.”off topic: that bolded part is priceless roflroflrofl

[Imshi-Yallah]

I was in Dublin a few years back at a bar when a young girl lept up onto a table, and proceeded to dance... and fall into a stack of pint glasses and getting severly injured..

[I have a weird swear word 'combo' ability that is not for the religiously inclined.]

" Holy J3sus f#cking Mary in the arse" slipped out.

A bar full of Catholics patched the girl up with me, and after she was in the ambulance all loaded and off I was stood at the bar feeling all hero when a dozen or so p1ssed off locals with a spokesman said 'oi, sweary bollocks, come here, we want a word'..


If I did that now I'd get a massive fine instead of the sh1t beat out me? sod that. Rather take the lumps cheers.

Did you do it in a room full of Children or a religious commune? Otherwise your story sounds a little bit far fetched.

Also in relation to the CNN article. Ireland hasn't been staunchly Catholic for 20 years. In fact the church's influence has never been so low.

The law is nonsensical and dangerous, and anyone who supports it should seriously consider drowning in a bucket of their own piss.

[WILD WEST]

Its just one more daft rule that our Government has came up with.

[rgjbloke]

Did you do it in a room full of Children or a religious commune? Otherwise your story sounds a little bit far fetched.

Also in relation to the CNN article. Ireland hasn't been staunchly Catholic for 20 years. In fact the church's influence has never been so low.

The law is nonsensical and dangerous, and anyone who supports it should seriously consider drowning in a bucket of their own piss.

It doesn't sound far fetched at all to me. I attended a funeral of a friend in Dublin just a few years ago and the catholic religion clearly does have a large role in peoples lives and how they conduct themselves, much more so than what I see in C of E Britain. As for this new law, That's a matter for them. As a practising agnostic (in reality, a cowardly atheist) and a non resident of Southern Ireland, I don't feel qualified to comment.

[muttbutt]

I can't see this law lasting out the first test case.....someone will challenge it.

[Connaught Ranger]

Law, making blasphemy a crime punishable by a $35,800 fine, came into effect January 1Wow when did we exchange the Euro for the Dollar?:roll:

[Snoshi]

Wow.. Religious fanatics have done it again...

[Connaught Ranger]

In reality the R.C.Faith in Ireland is more pertinent to the generations that was brain-washed and held under the "power" of the R.C. Church, I remember in 1969 hearing a RC Priest preach in the West of Ireland that people should not get televisions as they were instruments of the devil and would lead to sin, as opposed to opening peoples eyes to the real world outside of the Ireland and the dominating R.C. Faith.

Gone are the days of the big Irish families with 8 -14 kids, where at least two or more would be heading off to join the Priesthood if boys, or the Nuns if girls as there was nothing for them at home, and land / property legally at that time going to the eldest son.

This was a law legislated for by some of the last die-hard politicos brain-washed by the R.C. Faith. hopefully the last of their ilk.

[Noons86]

Ireland would be better off abolishing the church alltogether, in the wake of the huge numbers of cases involving physical and ****** abuse of children.. It is obvious that the church is basically an organization where pedophiles and sociopaths can come in contact with children. Everybody is so worried about causing 'outrage' among the religious. Fewer seem to care about protecting society from the religious predators, and generally barking mad believers.

I am 'outraged' at religious people. Idiots.


Well, that's something of a misrepresentation. Most religious people are far more concerned with the clerical ****** abuse than with people trying to bash religion. The only ones who are worried about "outrage" among religious people are those barking mad believers.

[Noons86]

It doesn't sound far fetched at all to me. I attended a funeral of a friend in Dublin just a few years ago and the catholic religion clearly does have a large role in peoples lives and how they conduct themselves, much more so than what I see in C of E Britain. As for this new law, That's a matter for them. As a practising agnostic (in reality, a cowardly atheist) and a non resident of Southern Ireland, I don't feel qualified to comment.


There's nothing cowardly about agnosticism. It is just as intellectually justifiable as theism or atheism. You've been listening to too much Dawkins.

[ex1cdo]

I think you will find a number of liberal democracies still have blasphemy laws on the statutes. Fortunately, most of them have the good sense not to enforce them as they are the products of a by-gone era and have not stood up to court challenges.

Mind you, having a law on the books from far in the past is a bit different than creating one in this day and age...

[Irish]

Pffftttt! thats all I have say about the Catholic church.

[Cerri]

The should put a sign at the airport "Welcome to Europe's Saudi Arabia"

[Connaught Ranger]

The should put a sign at the airport "Welcome to Europe's Saudi Arabia"

Wont work as we have no oil or camels or money.rofl

By the way the Blasphemy Laws are to prevent any religion being blasphemed (in theory)

and not just the Catholic one.

[gazell]

I do not know Ireland that much, but it just seems an unenforceable law in a civilised country. Sign of an idiotic government, methinks.

[tea drinker]

Not 100% sure, but wasn't this brought in along with the new Libel laws?.....Which would be more likely to protect politicians.

A blasbhemy law is a bit stupid, in fairness.

[rgjbloke]

There's nothing cowardly about agnosticism. It is just as intellectually justifiable as theism or atheism. You've been listening to too much Dawkins.

It's my little joke. p-)

[SHAM]

Its probably the governments attempt to pre-empt anyone making any satiracal cartoons similar to what happened in Denmark, and our economical reliance upon exports to the middle east and the effects that any satiracal cartoons might have on the Islamic worlds opinion of Ireland (cutting off imports of irish goods)
In the words of Ross Kemp in Gazza showing on tv right now.."Business is Business"

Nobody gives a shyte about upsetting the catholics, they would have to burn all copies of father ted!

[Antey]

So, according to Irish insulting some is forbidden but other is OK ?
Today's toleration is very singe-edged sword... and in the EU, soon such disputes shall be forbidden anyway. Not as intolerant in their nature, but as ones using forbidden word "religion". :P :>

If they so despise religious symbolism, I'm sure they will sure petition Britain
to stop harassing them with Union Jack and three crosses it depicts :>

Again it looks like it will be judges' common sense vs. both sides' radicals - ones will assert that freedom of speech includes right to insult other's beliefs (but any "hate speech" as retribution should be, of course, prohibited) and others will hunt down possible (and not possible) crimes in common event, such as cited bar example (unfortunate and honestly speaking quite rude regardless of whom actually it was mentioned, but still looking quite... accidental and without explicit agenda).

What concerns me is that this law seems to be terribly imprecise, and seem to be bit vague - after all, it it's supposed to be fair it should protect all beliefs, and in general, all social views not only those considered on some unclear criteria as major ones.

Anyway, any reason is good to be at each other's throats. Some people just thrive on conflicts and are willing to participate as long as decent media coverage is provided.


I remember in 1969 hearing a RC Priest preach in the West of Ireland that people should not get televisions as they were instruments of the devil and would lead to sin, as opposed to opening peoples eyes to the real world outside of the Ireland and the dominating R.C. Faith.

And, of course, you accepted it without question as official, standing, stone-burned policy of entire ? How convenient ;) I think it may rather be matter of local mentality - I doubt that even in coeval Poland any province-based chaplain would come out with such idea... and not being put back in the line.


BTW: Those quotes are poor examples. I fail to blasphemy in this particular George Carolin's words - it's rather well deserved criticism of those who forgot what actually the religions should be about - unless of course, for someone money's religion. In such case such person can rightfully feel insulted. And I doubt that anyone have noticed that those particular words of Pope Benedict XVI about Islam were quotes, later disputed (again, this particular case).

[Antey]

Well, that's something of a misrepresentation. Most religious people are far more concerned with the clerical ****** abuse than with people trying to bash religion. The only ones who are worried about "outrage" among religious people are those barking mad believers.

Quoted for truth. However, those barking mad believers (most of whom actually believe in themselves rather than God, Church's Law or anything) are perfect justification for barking mad non-believers to declare holy war on 99% percent of reasonable majority on both sides - believing and not believing alike.

One particular piece of movie I always include in such topics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXPaGCRngWw

Everyone should do oneself a favour and spare 1:29 to see it...




Nobody gives a shyte about upsetting the catholics, they would have to burn all copies of father ted!

It's your right my friend to "give a shyte" about Us and what we believe in. You have Free Will after all, like everyone else and you yourself are accountable for your actions or inactions.
But, in time, when balance of power shifts and someone else than you will carry a stick and attempt to beat the shyte out of you and us alike for your and our believes or attitudes alike, it may occur to you that it's not us catholics or you yourself are good or bad - but the idea itself of "not giving a shyte" about primitive way of discussing major terms.

[SHAM]

So, according to Irish insulting some is forbidden but other is OK ?
Today's toleration is very singe-edged sword...

If they so despise religious symbolism, I'm sure they will sure petition Britain
to stop harassing them with Union Jack and three crosses it depicts :>

Anyway, again it looks like it will be judges' common sense vs. both sides' radicals - ones will assert that freedom of speech includes right to insult other's beliefs (but any "hate speech" as retribution should be, of course, prohibited) and others will hunt down possible (and not possible) crimes in common event, such as cited bar example.

To be more acurate, Insulting everyone is mandatory and insulting each other is part of normal day life.
For the government, the thought of insulting the islamic world and the impact to the export market is enough for them to pass this so called Blasphemy law.

[Connaught Ranger]

And, of course, you accepted it without question as official, standing, stone-burned policy of entire ? How convenient ;) I think it may rather be matter of local mentality - I doubt that even in coeval Poland any province-based chaplain would come out with such idea... and not being put back in the line.


Of course, you by the content of your comment obviously have no idea the grip the Roman Catholic Church had on the Irish people, its only late in 2009 the Roman Catholic Church admitted to the Irish public that it was aware of the pedophile and ****** abuse being perpetrated on young children for well over 50 years.

But now more information is being brought into the public domain about what has been happening with regards the Roman Catholic Church and not only in Ireland.

As for Poland, over the years the Roman Catholic Church was under the control of the Communists so they would say what ever was required of them by their masters in the Kremlin. p-)

Connaught Ranger.

[sepheronx]

God will smite them all.

[Stormz_STA]

As for Poland, over the years the Roman Catholic Church was under the control of the Communists so they would say what ever was required of them by their masters in the Kremlin. p-)


You are wrong, RCC in Poland was never under the communist control. That's why it had such a big influence on Polish people.

[Connaught Ranger]

You are wrong, RCC in Poland was never under the communist control. That's why it had such a big influence on Polish people.

Do you know what the p-) represents?

[BMUS]

Well... not going to Ireland then. I swear a lot, and I'd go broke getting only one of those fines. Pitty...

[Stormz_STA]

Do you know what the p-) represents?

Yes, it represents an angry Anglo-Irish man.




;)

[gazell]

Well... not going to Ireland then. I swear a lot, and I'd go broke getting only one of those fines. Pitty...

Yes, the fine seems hefty.

[Connaught Ranger]

Yes, it represents an angry Anglo-Irish man.
;)

Damn and I thought it was for "Support the Somali Pirate Klan" rofl

[Antey]

Of course, you by the content of your comment obviously have no idea the grip the Roman Catholic Church had on the Irish people, its only late in 2009 the Roman Catholic Church admitted to the Irish public that it was aware of the pedophile and ****** abuse being perpetrated on young children for well over 50 years.

But now more information is being brought into the public domain about what has been happening with regards the Roman Catholic Church and not only in Ireland.

As for Poland, over the years the Roman Catholic Church was under the control of the Communists so they would say what ever was required of them by their masters in the Kremlin. p-)

Connaught Ranger.

Speaking of this latest admission, I of course don't know exact details but don't worry - even in my backward country ;) I've heard enough to wish quick and successful prosecution and punishment of those responsible.

I have my doubts also about this "bringing to light" - I saw recently statistic about similar abuses in Poland. It was quite fascinating lecture: it turnes out that our courts happen to work reliably form time to time and when such cases aren't allegations, "verdict is quick, punishment severe" but, strangely, no media hype about real abuses where abuser are quickly reported, verified, judged, sentenced and finally jailed.
So, while I am very well aware of many apparent misunderstanding in preaching, that are pointed out by my non-believing/otherwise-believing friends and other general issues, I would presume that in Ireland things that happened were pretty much similar as in Poland, namely:
1. "folk"-faith - such as people who consider themselves Catholic, but know and understand little of the teachings for various reasons (most dramatic example in recent Poland - some devouts called Pope communist and protested his decision to avoid promoting bishop accused of cooperating with communist secret services to (I don't know how to translate the position - metropolita). In common press or smalltalk, you can still hear e.g. both pro- and anti- catholic people deeply convinced that mid-aborted intercourse is church-approved form of contraception etc.
2. International and Inter-religion differences overlapping: i.e. anglican/protestant Britain and catholic Ireland. (Sweden vs. Poland in XVII century).
I can easily imagine that this someting like that was said about TV - however, please note that it most certainly is not remotely in line with the doctrine.

I also happen to know that my religion was introduced in Ireland almost 500 years ago before alleged baptism of Poland (the one from Byzantium) and even more before the well recognized baptism from Rome (966).
Therefore I imagine, it wasn't like in Poland, where predominantly Catholic(-like) country was - ironically - established by Communists in recent 1/20th of it's history. However, it WASN'T under Communist control, and most certainly not as PRC catholics.
More information on this you may find here - I suggest watching entire video, but most relevant begins 3:20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OoSdnebLxw
Norman Davies is quite reliable.