Belarus warns Russia of power cut

[Derbedeu]

Belarus warns Russia of power cut
Belarus has threatened to cut the supply of electricity via its territory to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.
The Belarus state power firm Belenergo said Russia was delivering electricity to the enclave in the absence of an agreement on transit fees.
"This compels the Belarusian side to think of cutting the unauthorised commercial transit of electricity," the Belenergo statement said on Monday.
A dispute over Russian oil supplies to Belarus has not yet been resolved.
Russian oil is still being supplied to Belarus, both for transit and processing, the Belarus oil concern Belneftekhim said.
But the two former Soviet republics have failed to sign a new agreement on Russian oil deliveries for 2010. It was supposed to be signed by the end of 2009.
"We are continuing uninterrupted transit to Western European customers," said Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, quoted by Interfax news agency.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said he hoped a deal with Belarus on oil supplies would be clinched soon.
The dispute centres on the preferential tariff that Belarus has been paying since 2007 for Russian oil. It has been selling on Russian crude or refined oil at world prices.
Russia says it is prepared to sell oil to Belarus duty-free for domestic consumption but wants to charge the tariff for oil that Belarus exports.
In 2007 a similar dispute with Belarus over oil tariffs disrupted Russian oil exports via the Druzhba pipeline to Poland and Germany.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8439745.stm

[sepheronx]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8439745.stm

See, Russia wants to have a conjoined economic union with Kazakhstan and Belarus, but Belarus is just trying to play hardball so they can get more.

[coltfan111]

The shoe is on the other foot now huh? Belarus are playing the game.

[Derbedeu]

Belarus assails Russia over oil talks

Yesterday at 23:51 | Associated Press
MINSK, Belarus (AP) — Belarus accused Russia of exerting "unacceptable" pressure in talks on oil prices, and said Sunday that Moscow's demands undermined attempts at closer economic integration between the two ex-Soviet neighbors.

A Russian energy official, meanwhile, said the price arguments with Belarus wouldn't affect Russian oil exports to the West through the Belarusian pipeline.

Russia is the main ally and sponsor of Belarus, but relations between the two ex-Soviet neighbors have been increasingly strained by financial arguments.

The Belarusian Cabinet said in a statement Sunday that the two neighbors had failed so far to agree on terms of Russian oil exports to Belarus. It said Moscow's demand that Belarus pays a higher tax on the bulk of Russian oil shipment contradicted an agreement on customs union signed late last year.

It said Russian officials had put an "unprecedented pressure" on the Belarusian delegation during Sunday's talks, and described it as "totally unacceptable."

Russia had said earlier that it was ready to provide tax-free oil for Belarus' internal consumption in line with the customs union deal, but would fully tax all the oil Belarus processes for exports to the West.

Belarus buys about 20 million metric tons of Russian crude a year, but consumes only about one fourth of that. The rest is refined and exported to the West, accounting for more than a third of Belarus' export revenues.

Belarusian experts have estimated that the Russian tax would cost Belarus about $5 billion this year, or more than 10 percent of its gross domestic product.

Belarus' Soviet-style economy heavily depended on Russian oil and gas supplied at a lower price compared with other ex-Soviet nations.

In Moscow, Mikhail Barkov, vice president of the state-controlled Transneft company that runs Russian oil pipelines, said that price arguments with Belarus wouldn't affect Russian oil exports to the West, RIA Novosti news agency reported.

In January 2007, Russia briefly cut oil exports to the European Union nations through a Belarusian pipeline as Moscow and Minsk argued over price.

That shutdown, along with natural gas cutoffs to Europe in January 2006 and January 2009 caused by contract disputes with Ukraine, raised doubts in Europe about Russia's dependability as a top energy supplier to the continent.



http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/56349/

[Russianlynxy]

See, Russia wants to have a conjoined economic union with Kazakhstan and Belarus, but Belarus is just trying to play hardball so they can get more.

minor correction: Lukashenko wants to play hardball so he can get more and call all the shots in the relationship. He knows Russia is all about business, so he brings politics into it.

[Difool]

Many of the middle-eastern European former block states seem to be very annoying. Why is that? A new nationalism?

[Codazo]

I don't know if it's good for Belarus, as I see it they have more to lose if Russia starts banning products and reviewing contracts. I'm not sure if "West" will give them as much money as Russia does.

[Russianlynxy]

Many of the middle-eastern European former block states seem to be very annoying. Why is that? A new nationalism?

Well it's a different situation for every state. In Ukraine the nationalist minority has been holding on to power for quite some time. In Belarus there really isn't a whole lot of nationalism, but most of the "annoyances" are coming from the president himself who wants to stay in power. Baltic states are an entirely different bouquet.


I don't know if it's good for Belarus, as I see it they have more to lose if Russia starts banning products and reviewing contracts. I'm not sure if "West" will give them as much money as Russia does.

This experiment has been tried. The problem is the "west" has no money to give them, one. And two as much as some outside parties would wish it to be so - Belarus cannot really be transformed into another Ukraine. It's not good for Belarus, but it is NOT an issue of Belarus trying to get closer with the west. It's more of a tug of war between Belarus and Russia themselves. Out of all the post-Soviet states Belarus was always the most willing to re-unite into a single state/commonwealth. These plans have been mulled over for 15 years now and no real progress has been made. Both sides are at fault but part of the reason is that Lukashenko doesn't want to lose/share power.

[daily666]

Come to think of it. The same system (UPS/IPS) connects the Baltics, and on 31.12.2009 Lithiuania shut down it's only nuclear powerplant in Igalina.

Belarus plays hard. The electric energy is the most needed utility in the modern world.

[void]

I think Lukashenko needs to be reminded in no uncertain terms who it was exactly that has given Belarus billions of dollars of low-interest loans during this recent economic crisis.
On the other hand, this is one of very few bargaining tools Belarus has in terms of dealing with Russia (transit to Kaliningrad) so their threats arent too unexpected. Arent there plans to build an NPP in Kaliningrad in the near future?

[joka]

Baltic states are an entirely different bouquet.

No opportunity to slander The Baltic states will be left unused huh.

[Derbedeu]

Many of the middle-eastern European former block states seem to be very annoying. Why is that? A new nationalism?

Actually, most of these problems in the energy field seems to be involving the same 3 countries, namely Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. Seems the three still haven't figured out how to have a respectful and working relationship between each other. As a result, the rest of Europe has to suffer for it. :-(

[eskachig]

No opportunity to slander The Baltic states will be left unused huh.Are you trying to say that Belarus, Ukraine, and the Baltics are all the same when it comes to Russia? I think what was said makes a lot of sense.

[Dercius]

No opportunity to slander The Baltic states will be left unused huh.

He was only stating that in the Baltic states people have a strong sense of nationalism. Something that is true, so dont overreact, no need to start a drama,well, no yet, so lets chill out p-)

[Xaito]

seems like Belarus just fulfilled requirements for EU and NATO entry ;)

[edi_]

Somehow i think we might see a regime change in Belarus really soon.


seems like Belarus just fulfilled requirements for EU and NATO entry ;)

Nah, NATO expansion is over, well at least in the Eastern Europe. After what happened to Ukraine and Georgia, no one will have the balls to even look at Russia the wrong way.

[Xaito]

Nah, NATO expansion is over, well at least in the Eastern Europe. After what happened to Ukraine and Georgia, no one will have the balls to even look at Russia the wrong way.

they're looking at Russia the wrong way every other day :)
Don't think this minor speed bump will stop western countries from aggressively pursuing their interests.

[edi_]

Don't think this minor speed bump will stop western countries from aggressively pursuing their interests.

NATO can do plenty of stuff, but i am just saying i doubt anymore eastern European countries will join it. To be honest, i wouldn't really worry about NATO, i'd say they already peaked. Financial problems, never ending wars, China, etc. I wouldn't be surprise if some countries would actually start leaving NATO soon.

Anyway, back to Eastern Europe. Sure, some might not like Russia, but it makes no difference really, it's fear that is stopping them from being naughty.

[Afro-European]

On a related news



Lukashenko ratifies several Customs Union documents

MINSK, January 5 (RIA Novosti)
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko has ratified a number of agreements within the framework of the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, Belarus's official law portal said on Tuesday.
Among other things, the documents concern customs control procedures, tariffs and quotas, as well as information exchange.
The presidents of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan signed a package of deals on November 27, 2009, to create a customs union with common tariffs, paving the way for a single economic space.
The Customs Union between the three former Soviet states came into force on January 1, although many aspects of the project will only be finalized over the coming year.
Russia, Belarus and Kazachstan are planning to introduce a common customs space in July 2010 and form a single economic space in January 2012.
A Belarusian government source said on Saturday that Russia's position at negotiations on a 2010 agreement for oil deliveries to Belarus is seriously undermining the Customs Union deal.

http://en.rian.ru/exsoviet/20100105/157470071.html

[Difool]

Could be this small thing called Russian dominance for the past 50+ years over them, now they're trying to get some payback as little as they can.

A childish and dangerous reaction that leads to more hostilities.

[asch]

Could be this small thing called Russian dominance for the past 50+ years over them, now they're trying to get some payback as little as they can.
oh i thought it was "soviet" one, but you guys from US always know better.

[Frutzel]

Could be this small thing called Russian dominance for the past 50+ years over them, now they're trying to get some payback as little as they can.

SOVIET UNION :roll: I hope you get the difference.

[Eye]

Sure, some might not like Russia, but it makes no difference really, it's fear that is stopping them from being naughty.
It's so good to valued yourself :)
But it's much better to have a contact with reality.

[tommy00]

After what happened to Ukraine and Georgia, no one will have the balls to even look at Russia the wrong way.
Anyway, back to Eastern Europe. Sure, some might not like Russia, but it makes no difference really, it's fear that is stopping them from being naughty.

:roll:
Damn, sometimes it makes me sad, that i'm allready 40...
Would be nice to still live in some wonderful fairytaleworld, as some our friends so nicely do.....

[CaptMorgan68]

this supposed bickering between Russia and Belarus has put the floor under the new oil price levels... and that's the real outcome of any of this

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=90635

"Concerns over the security of the oil supply also aided oil's ascent. Russia is continuing to negotiate with Belarus over oil shipments for 2010 and although Transneft Vice President Mikhail Barkov said the "transit of oil across Belarus won't be cut under any circumstances." Oil markets were still spooked by a potential threat to supply."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703580904574637923699712880.html

[edi_]

It's so good to valued yourself :)
But it's much better to have a contact with reality.

So Poland and the Baltic countries are not afraid of Russia?

:roll:

[edi_]

:roll:
Damn, sometimes it makes me sad, that i'm allready 40...
Would be nice to still live in some wonderful fairytaleworld, as some our friends so nicely do.....
Ah, i think i know what's the problem here. You fanboys probably don't live in either Estonia or Poland. Sure then, you are not scared, it's hard being scared for an Eastern European living somewhere in Ohio.....:roll:

[Difool]

So Poland and the Baltic countries are not afraid of Russia?

:roll:

I doubt that they're afraid because I cannot see any reason why they should be. I think it's more a kind of revenge for being dominated by the SU. As I said it's childish and doesn't serve either side.

[Steak-Sauce]

Ah, i think i know what's the problem here. You fanboys probably don't live in either Estonia or Poland. Sure then, you are not scared, it's hard being scared for an Eastern European living somewhere in Ohio.....:roll:

Scared about what exactly? ... Oje, don't feed the troll. :fork:

[Akril]

I don't know if it's good for Belarus, as I see it they have more to lose if Russia starts banning products and reviewing contracts.

Replacement for Ignalina Power Plant haven't been done yet, so Luka is trying to get bonuses from this situation. Nothing to see here actually, he has been pain in the ass from the very beginning and always calm down after some negotiation and tricky agreements that doesn't change anything for Russia just use indirect ways. Don't know why do he loves to make troubles if he unable to get extras in the end.

[sepheronx]

What it is, Belarus is just grasping at the last concept of trying to get a bigger score out of Russia. But whatever happens, Belarus will play nice.

[daily666]

Ah, i think i know what's the problem here. You fanboys probably don't live in either Estonia or Poland. Sure then, you are not scared, it's hard being scared for an Eastern European living somewhere in Ohio.....:roll:

In case you haven't noticed on your short stay here, unlike most of the Russia sTROnG11!!!1 crew most of Eastern Europeans acutally live in Eastern Europe and don't pretend to be Canadian or German when it's suitable for them.

[widi243]

oh i thought it was "soviet" one, but you guys from US always know better.
Soviet/ Russian there's no difference both was the same way of thinking and there is no difference between them. And Russians like to play soviet card when it suits them but when not they are indigant that wasn't they only soviet's.

[Difool]

Soviet/ Russian there's no difference both was the same way of thinking and there is no difference between them. And Russians like to play soviet card when it suits them but when not they are indigant that wasn't they only soviet's.

So if you think that, you do think that Russia plans to conquer half of Europe again and spreading it's ideology worldwide? Haven't you noticed that there's been a political, geographic and economic change? Are you serious?
Maybe you're convinced that the FR of Germany is equal the German Reich?

[Atlantic Friend]

So if you think that, you do think that Russia plans to conquer half of Europe again and spreading it's ideology worldwide? Are you serious?

Why "half" of Europe only?

Let's say that, if it was in Russia's power to conquer/vassalize/subjugate the continent and spread the fear of Mother Russia worldwide, I kinda doubt it would refrain from doing so out of moral issues.

I'm pretty sure that we'd find many arguments applauding/justifying/celebrating it on this very forum as well. p-)

[void]

Why "half" of Europe only?

Let's say that, if it was in Russia's power to conquer/vassalize/subjugate the continent and spread the fear of Mother Russia worldwide, I kinda doubt it would refrain from doing so out of moral issues.

I'm pretty sure that we'd find many arguments applauding/justifying/celebrating it on this very forum as well. p-)

I heard France plans to emulate the days of the Napoleonic Empire and march across Europe again, Western Europe is probably shaking in their boots just thinking about it.

[Atlantic Friend]

I heard France plans to emulate the days of the Napoleonic Empire and march across Europe again, Western Europe is probably shaking in their boots just thinking about it.

And verily they should, if the national mood was into "let's become a global power once again and revive the old days of the Sovi...of the Napoleonic Empire", if France was ruled by a former DGSE agent and if we had set up a semi-independent Wallonia after a short conflict with Belgium. ;)

[void]

And verily they should, if the national mood was into "let's become a global power once again and revive the old days of the Sovi...of the Napoleonic Empire", if France was ruled by a former DGSE agent and if we had set up a semi-independent Wallonia after a short conflict with Belgium. ;)

Russia wanting to stand tall once more is not synonymous with wanting to reconquer most of Eastern Europe again. I'd rather not relive the days of the Russian SSR subsidising the other SSRs, most of Eastern Europe, and all other countries claiming to be communist just to get free weapons and aid.
USA has been "ruled" by an ex-CIA head and many army and naval officers in the past (Bush Sr, Eisenhower, Carter, I'm sure there are others) and nobody batted an eyelash.
In short, this whole "Medvedev/Putin/Russia wants to revive the USSR" thing is getting old and tired. Even Putin is quoted as saying "those who do not mourn the USSR have no heart, those who want its return have no brain", and I completely agree with that sentiment.

[Atlantic Friend]

To get serious, the thing with Belarus does puzzle me a bit. These days it seems it's nothing but tension between Minsk and Moscow, but wasn't there quite the other way around a few years ago? Is Lukashenko trying to get leverage for a loan or something?

[Difool]

To get serious, the thing with Belarus does puzzle me a bit. These days it seems it's nothing but tension between Minsk and Moscow, but wasn't there quite the other way around a few years ago? Is Lukashenko trying to get leverage for a loan or something?
Hoping to make friendship with other countries with that, I guess.

[Afro-European]

Date of new talks on Russian oil supplies to Belarus not yet set

MOSCOW,(Itar-Tass) - The date of the resumption of direct talks with Belarus on Russian oil deliveries, interrupted ahead of New Year, “is not yet clear,” spokeswoman for the Russian Energy Ministry Irina Yesipova told Tass on Monday.
She said, however, that talks as such on oil supplies to Belarus “have not stopped, and they continue at the present moment in a distance mode”.

[tommy00]

Russia wanting to stand tall once more is not synonymous with wanting to reconquer most of Eastern Europe again. I'd rather not relive the days of the Russian SSR subsidising the other SSRs, most of Eastern Europe, and all other countries claiming to be communist just to get free weapons and aid.
.

Living in the world of myths indeed...:roll:

You don't wanna sell oil(and more) to "Batka" with low price,...then don't.
Don't wanna pay 90% of a budget of South-Ossetia,(and some other) then don't.
Does someone holds a gun on your forhead and tells you do all that,...i don't think so...
You sell, you name a price......
If "Batka" is a friend only then, when he get's a huge discount, then good luck to Russia with friends like this....
Ain't it simple...???

[Snoshi]

It have been reported that the negotiations have failed as for now. But both parties are ready to continue discussing the deal.

[void]

Living in the world of myths indeed...:roll:

You don't wanna sell oil(and more) to "Batka" with low price,...then don't.
Don't wanna pay 90% of a budget of South-Ossetia,(and some other) then don't.
Does someone holds a gun on your forhead and tells you do all that,...i don't think so...
You sell, you name a price......
If "Batka" is a friend only then, when he get's a huge discount, then good luck to Russia with friends like this....
Ain't it simple...???

What? I was just pointing out to all the "Russia/Putin wants to recreate the USSR" people that the USSR times werent all roses and sunshine for the Russian SSR because it had to massively subsidise most of the rest of the USSR and Warsaw Pact/other communist countries. This is a fair bit different in scale from subsidising South Ossetia.

[sepheronx]

It have been reported that the negotiations have failed as for now. But both parties are ready to continue discussing the deal.

But what is it that Belarus wants out of this deal? They already get cheap gas from Russia, and soon it would be duty free as well. So what more could they want?

Is Lukashenko being like a woman? playing hard to get?

[Russianlynxy]

But what is it that Belarus wants out of this deal? They already get cheap gas from Russia, and soon it would be duty free as well. So what more could they want?

Is Lukashenko being like a woman? playing hard to get?

Lukashenko wants to remain in power. Out of all the former USSR states, Belarus was always the most willing to combine economies and even territories. This plan is being mulled over for the last 15 years with little results. Partially because Luka is keeping his distance. A re-establishment of a union would mean for Luka that he needs to "move over". I'm pretty sure he likes the power he has right now. Not a very pragmatic leader considering Russian and Belorussian interests but is wise in terms of holding on to power.

[Mango Madness]

But what is it that Belarus wants out of this deal? They already get cheap gas from Russia, and soon it would be duty free as well. So what more could they want?

Is Lukashenko being like a woman? playing hard to get?

It's simple, isn't it? They want to keep getting $2 billion in subsidies from Russia.

[Russianlynxy]

It's simple, isn't it? They want to keep getting $2 billion in subsidies from Russia.

well not exactly. If the Russian-Belorussian commonwealth came through the way it was supposed to. They probably would be receiving it for free. It's not always about money it seems..