Need info. on this pic.

[Seiyuuki]

Is there a bigger more high-res version of this picture...

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2002/06/local_assets/jeeps.jpg

[Lobo]

It isn't a hi-res version, but I hope to be helpful.

http://personal.iddeo.es/jesusm1/cosasmias/desert.jpg

[Seiyuuki]

With the smaller pic. I thought it was just dirt on the Humvee, but with the bigger picture...I must say, interesting paint job. I'm assuming this is in Afghanistan because of the rocky terrain, can anyone confirm it or have additional information about the picture? Thanx Lobo and everyone else in advance.

[Dominique]

Nope, it's a pic of some Army SF guys during Desert Storm in 91.

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

I have a larger print of this image in a special forces book I own. It is for sure from Gulf War part 1. I used this image as the basis for a custom 1/6th scale hummer I am working on. In studying the image I beleive that the third vehicle may be a land rover. This leads me to think that this could be a SAS scud hunter team or an instance in which both US and British SF troops were together. I would very much like to know anything else about this image if anyone else has info, or a high resolution version (as has been asked for already...hehe).

Jesus blessings!
chris

[hood]

It was a while ago so i may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the caption for this read that it was SAS. Can you post which book you see this image in? Thanks.

[Dominique]

The first place I saw the pick was in the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) 10th anniversary history (published by SOCOM). According to the caption, it's a team of US Army Special Forces operators conducting a Special Reconnaissance (SR) mission in the Iraqi desert sometime in Jaunary of 1991.

[lekomin]

This leads me to think that this could be a SAS scud hunter team or an instance in which both US and British SF troops were together.

I dont think there was ever a joint SAS/Delta(or other us sf) mobile patrol during the 1st gulf war. I think that moreless all SAS figting columns are accounted for that war and there is absolutely no scrap of info suggesting their worked together with the yanks.

[Steve Andrews]

Did US forces use a FN MAG variant in 91? Something smells British about this pic.

[ibstolidude]

yes and they the US SF was involved during the GW1 in SR throught the theater as well as the British (and others).

[Dominique]

This leads me to think that this could be a SAS scud hunter team or an instance in which both US and British SF troops were together.

I dont think there was ever a joint SAS/Delta(or other us sf) mobile patrol during the 1st gulf war. I think that moreless all SAS figting columns are accounted for that war and there is absolutely no scrap of info suggesting their worked together with the yanks.

Several USAF Special Tactics Personnel (mostly Special Tactics Combat Controllers) were attached to both the SAS and SBS to coordinate airstrikes directed against mobile SCUD launchers.

Both US and British SOF units, along with their A-10 air support, were located at a forward deployed base that allowed them to respond to any SCUD sightings. USAF special operations aircraft were also used to deploy both SAS and SBS teams when neccessary.

[Argyll]

SAS personnel can call in their own airstrikes,they are trained to act as FAC's,that's the 1st time Ive heard of USAF CCT's being attached to any SAS patrol in 91,from all the hyped up books that came out none mentioned attached US personnel!
Most of the SAS patrols were by Landrovers,and Unimogs who also had MILANs mounted onto them,for the very missions of Scud Busting!
The truth is the US and the UK had thier own TAO's and their own "Kill boxes"
As for them both being located in the same place I also think that's untrue!
Also as far as I'm aware the SBS played a very small part in the 91 war,blowing up some fiber optic relays in the 1st hours of the war,and Secondly to retake the British Embassey in Kuwait City!
If you can provide us with a source for this info ,I may believe it!?

[ibstolidude]

they may be able to call in their own airstrikes but the reason the USAF pushes coalition forces into using their assets is that all coalition aircraft DO NOT use the same procedures for CAS, air support, DZs and LZs...
Not evne to mention talking crypto or comaptability issues for radios/freqs.

[Dominique]

SAS personnel can call in their own airstrikes,they are trained to act as FAC's,that's the 1st time Ive heard of USAF CCT's being attached to any SAS patrol in 91,from all the hyped up books that came out none mentioned attached US personnel!
Most of the SAS patrols were by Landrovers,and Unimogs who also had MILANs mounted onto them,for the very missions of Scud Busting!
The truth is the US and the UK had thier own TAO's and their own "Kill boxes"
As for them both being located in the same place I also think that's untrue!
Also as far as I'm aware the SBS played a very small part in the 91 war,blowing up some fiber optic relays in the 1st hours of the war,and Secondly to retake the British Embassey in Kuwait City!
If you can provide us with a source for this info ,I may believe it!?

The SBS patrol that blew up the fiber optic cabel, had a SOTAC qualified USAF Special Tactics Combat Controller from the 24th Special Tactics Squadron attached to it. His entire purpose for being there was in case the Brits got into trouble. The airman received an award for the mission.

At that time US pilots and SAS patrols were using slightly different CAS procedures. So the Air Force insisted that if they wanted US air support, they had to go through USAF personnel. (They also insisted that Delta have 24th STS PJs and CCTs attaced to it for the same purpose, don't ask me why.)

The JSOTF (read JSOC) attached several CCTs to the SAS (all drawn from the 24th STS - it's the STS assigned to JSOC) to help coordinate airstrikes.

The SAS patrols that didn't have US personnel attached to them had a couple of close calls with US strike aircraft. On several occassions they were nearly struck by the aircraft who mistook them for Iraqi patrols.

The JSOTF (JSOC units), the SAS, SBS (who in addtion to blowing up the cable and securing the embassy also conducted several reconnaissance opertions. During one mission their insertion sub was alsmost hit by USN A-6 attack aircraft while conducting a bombing raid on an Iraqi port facility), USAF A-10s, and support personnel were colocated at an advance base near the Iraqi border. If I remember correctly (I could be wrong I'm doing this off the top of my head) was called Ar Ar.

As soon As I can get back to my house, I'll give you specific references to check the information.

[Argyll]

Nah no need to Dominique,that's as informative as you need to be ,and provided excellent stuff there.....I stand corrected!

[Royal]

As Dominique has stated the SBS did rather more than blow up a couple of fibre optic nodes.

FACing is a skill prevelant in UKSF and other 'recce orientated' units, but it is a skill that requires alot of training and constant practice to remain at a peak - something USAF CC's do very well, and UKSF operators have little time (or money) to remain at such a peak. Most SF operators are multi skilled, but why use a 'gifted amateur' when a professional is about?

[Argyll]

I think that a lot of what the SBS did during 91 went by unoticed,as they really do prefer to be much more low key than the SAS,but that's not to say what they did was any less important!!
Yeah I guess not too much was said during all these "actions" books from the like of "Spence","Crossland""McNabb"and a few others didn't mention the USAF CCT guys much,probably cause they were so full of BS that they forgot they were there!!
I can't remember the SAS staging base offhand .....was it Al Kharj?

[P220ST]

Here is what the caption of the photo said.


During the Gulf War, an A-team lies low in a wadi during a long-range patrol deep in Iraq, hunting for SCUDs. The urgent mission forced General Schwarzkopf to draw on his only uncommitted special operations forces: Delta, and the British SAS.

Here is the article where the picture was posted.

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2002/06/spec_forces.shtml

It's a good article and worth reading. I don't know if that is where the picture originally came from but that's where I remember seeing it.

Edit: I just looked at the source of the first picture posted by Seiyuuki and I guess it's from the same article I posted.

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

Here is the info on the book in which I saw the photo:

The Illustrated Directory of Special Forces by David Miller cppyright 2002

Elements in the photo that I found interesting were...the figure in the righ hand background that appears to be wearing a desert night camo top (flek tarn?), driver in the forward hummer seems to be wearing the same, and the third vehicle being some version of land rover.

Did the SAS use the desert night camo?

It would be wonderful to find the source of this photo and more from this same scene...or someone who was there who could just say what was up...if only...hehe.

Jesus blessings
chris holloman

[Royal]

the figure in the righ hand background that appears to be wearing a desert night camo top (flek tarn?), driver in the forward hummer seems to be wearing the same, and the third vehicle being some version of land rover.

Did the SAS use the desert night camo?

UKSF deployed on GWI with insufficient warm kit, so all sorts of scrounging and buying in soukhs went on before patrols deployed.

The US 'night camo' has never been issued to UK units, other than for trials, but I have seen it used, more so in the early 90's than now. We being the 'borrowers' aquire all sorts of kit over the years...

[Dominique]

OK , I finally found my copy of the offical US SOCOM 10th Anniversary History. THe photo appears on pg. 40, with the caption "SCUD Hunting patrol" in the section title "Scud Hunting".

Good book, not sure if you can still get a copy, but it used to a be available from the Government Printing Office for free to members of the US military.

[Zach R.]

I don't mean to be rude, but, are you trying to tell me you play with Gi Joes?

[Dominique]

I don't mean to be rude, but, are you trying to tell me you play with Gi Joes?

????? What are you talking about? :roll:

[Scrim]

Yes, please explain Zach.