Holocaust Survivor Palestinian rights activist

[Ordie]

ISRAEL, GAZA: Holocaust survivor explains why she became Palestinian rights activist
January 6, 2010 | 3:42 pm
Hedy Epstein is what some might see as a contradiction in terms: a survivor of the Holocaust and also a staunch advocate for the Palestinian people. Born in 1924 in Freiburg, Germany, Epstein was 14 when she escaped from Nazi persecution via the Kinderstransport to England. Since her 1948 arrival in the U.S., Epstein has been an advocate for peace and human rights.

In 2001 she founded the St. Louis chapter of the Women in Black anti-war group that originated in Israel, and has actively advocated for Palestinian rights since visiting the West Bank in 2003. As the last decade came to a close, Epstein continued her advocacy by traveling with the women’s peace advocacy group CodePink to the Gaza Freedom March. The Dec. 31 march was a planned nonviolent demonstration to protest Israel’s blockade of Gaza, with 1,000 advocates from abroad joining Palestinians in a march to the Gaza-Israel border checkpoint.

Although Egyptian authorities refused to let the full contingent of protesters into Gaza, the 100 activists that were permitted to enter carried on the anti-blockade message. Prior to the planned Gaza march, Epstein spoke with Babylon and Beyond about her past experiences in Israel, dealing with the controversy of being a Holocaust survivor who criticizes Israel, and the Gaza Freedom March.

How did you get interested in the Israel/Palestine issue?
I was born in Germany, I'm Jewish -- after Hitler came to power, my parents realized very quickly that Germany was not a good place to raise a family. They were willing to go anywhere in the world, but one place they were not willing to go to was Palestine -- they were anti-Zionists. As a child I didn't quite understand this, but if my parents were anti-Zionist, I was anti-Zionist. I came to the U.S. in 1948, around the same time Israel became a state, about which I had mixed feelings. On the one hand it was a place for Holocaust survivors to go to, those who could not or did not want to return to their homes, but on the other, I considered my parents' ardent anti-Zionism. While I was new in the U.S., Israel and Palestine remained on the back burner of my interests. In 1982, I heard about the massacres in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon -- I wanted to know who was responsible for this, what had happened between 1948 and 1982. As I learned more, I became increasingly disturbed by the policies of Israel and its military. Fast forward to 2003 -- I was in the West Bank for the first time, and have been there five times since then.
This will be my third try to go to Gaza. The first try was with the Free Gaza Movement when they tried to take boats through Israel's naval blockade, but right before, in Cypress, I became ill -- it was 120 degrees, with matching humidity. The second try, the Free Gaza Movement members were worried what about might happen to me, so in deference I didn't go with them. I was to go again in June 2009, but the day before I was to go, I was assaulted. I don't know whether I was targeted or if it was a random act of violence -- I was coming back from the airport, but my suitcase and pocketbook, neither were touched -- it was not theft.

Why did you decide to go with CodePink and participate in the group's Gaza Freedom March?
I've known about CodePink for quite some time and when I found out they were planning a march to Gaza, I decided I would go. I tried twice and didn't succeed, and so maybe the third time is the charm. Egyptian organizers recently told the group they could not go through the Rafah border (more information). Other times groups were told they could not go, but then were permitted to go with restrictions. So we will go forward, and we'll take it one day, one minute at a time. And if we don't get in, that too will make a huge statement.

How have people reacted to your decision to be an advocate for Palestinians?
It depends whom you're talking to or whom you're talking about. The mainstream, organized Jewish community, both locally and in other places, have called me anti-Semitic, a self-hating Jew. I'm not anti-Israel, but you're not allowed to criticize Israel or else you're anti-Semitic, and if you're Jewish you're a self-hating Jew. I don't hate myself. You're allowed to criticize every other country, including the U.S., but not Israel, why is that?

How do you think Israel will respond to nonviolence/direct action?
I don't know. I hope they will be nonviolent. When I was in the West Bank, before I went, I was told that the Palestinians are going to hurt me, they are going to do awful things to me. But they were the ones that protected me. In one demonstration, in 2006, near Ramallah, I lost some of my hearing because an Israeli sound bomb went off very close to me. The Palestinians near me were very concerned. I was strip-searched, internally searched at Israel's David Ben Gurion airport, I was told that “I was a terrorist, I'm a security risk.” An 80-year-old woman is a terrorist? What, do I have a bomb in my ******?

Do you think there can be peace in Israel in the near future?
In the near future, no. I'm an inveterate optimist, so someday there will be peace, but a lot of things have to change before that happens. If the occupation were to stop overnight, it would make all the difference in the world. Israel is the fourth-largest military entity in the world. They have the newest equipment, and it's used on the Palestinians. Also, if the U.S. stopped funding Israel, that would be another way of bringing about peace. We have humongous problems in this country, people are unemployed, losing their homes, we could use that money instead of overseas in a destructive way. Let's use it constructively. I think we should let the people decide what they want instead of telling them what they should do.
-- Daniel Siegal
Source:http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/01/israel-gaza-holocaust-survivor-hedy-epstein-explains-why-she-became-palestinian-rights-activist.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BabylonBeyond+%28Babylon+%26+Beyond+Blog%29

[Rudolph]

This article is more about a principle than about the actual situation regarding Israel and the Palestinians. I can certainly respect her stance and she seems sound of mind and I hope this doesn't turn into the usual "if you're not a supporter of Israel you're a Jew-hater" thread... I guess the article is simply saying that as a Jew and a holocaust survivor her opinion carries more weight because she is supporting the Palestinians despite having experience with a major event which had a major impact on the formation of modern Israel. American funding toward Israel will not stop while Israel is the only modern, stable democracy in the Middle-East. What Israel must fear is that the ME one day becomes stable.

[Ordie]

This article is more about a principle than about the actual situation regarding Israel and the Palestinians. I can certainly respect her stance and she seems sound of mind and I hope this doesn't turn into the usual "if you're not a supporter of Israel you're a Jew-hater" thread... I guess the article is simply saying that as a Jew and a holocaust survivor her opinion carries more weight because she is supporting the Palestinians despite having experience with a major event which had a major impact on the formation of modern Israel. American funding toward Israel will not stop while Israel is the only modern, stable democracy in the Middle-East. What is Israel must fear is that the ME one day becomes stable.

Interesting points.

It begs the question what will happen when Israel is just another country no different than its neighbors.

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

[skyrock]

The world would have been a better place if a Jewish state had been established on the land of Germany as a punishment for Nazi's crimes.

[sheikhness]

<quote>Israel is the fourth-largest military entity in the world.</quote>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops

Yeah, I see that the trend of not letting facts get in the way of a good story continues. This is poor journalism, I mean how am to believe other points and facts presented if at least one of the points presented is poorly researched. A good journalist should be able to stand behind any sentence he commits to print (tv, internet, whatever).

On the point of the article - I think what she's doing is blessed, as Jewish people has been ordained by G-d to provide an example to gentiles (which is what chosen people truly means) in every area, proper humanitarian values and morality included.

[Rudolph]

Interesting points.

It begs the question what will happen when Israel is just another country no different than its neighbors.

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

If Israel can survive until some semblence of peace emerges in the Middle-East, I think the country will be in for a bit of a culture shock. Israel does have the advantage that the population is spread out and "divided" geographically. In South Africa you have no apartheid laws anymore, no more crackdowns on suspected terrorist hideouts, no detention of political prisoners, etc... But those laws being revoked have not bettered most of the black population. And I fear the Palestinians will find themselves in the exact same position even if Israel scraps all laws they consider descriminatory.

It's not the laws that are preventing the people from progressing. Just like the Dutch descendents in SA, the Jewish people created something first-world within a third-world and that gap will take generations to realise into equality for those considered "native"-whether in recent history or from the distant past.

[BlackWarder]

already been around the jewblogsphere:

The "Holocaust survivor" moonbat (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2009/12/holocaust-survivor-moonbat.html)


It is amusing to see how the Gaza Freedom March moonbats are acting in Egypt (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/world/middleeast/30egypt.html?_r=1):


More than 1,000 people from around the world were gathered here on Tuesday for a solidarity march into Gaza despite Egypt’s insistence that the Gaza border crossing that it controls would remain closed to the vast majority of them.

The protest, the Gaza Freedom March, was planned for Thursday and intended to mark a year since Israel’s three-week military assault on the territory. On Tuesday, hundreds of the frustrated activists gathered to press their case on the front steps of the Egyptian Journalists Syndicate here, holding “Free Gaza” signs and chanting, “Let us go.” Some declared a hunger strike.

About 100 French citizens staged a sit-in in front of the French Embassy, and some Americans pleaded for help at the United States Consulate.

The Egyptian government agreed to let 100 activists into Gaza on Wednesday, according to one of the organizers of the march.

The world of these moonbats is absurdly egotistical. Back in the good old days of protests, a hunger strike would be used to protest a real injustice. These guys are instead going on a hunger strike as a publicity stunt in order to be able to go and perform another publicity stunt - a purely symbolic entrance to Gaza that will provide essentially no real services to Gazans!

(Yaacov Lozowick shows two (http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2009/12/blindness-in-cairo.html)other examples (http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2009/12/mondoweiss-were-liberatingthe-world.html)of pure narcissism on the part of these protesters.)

The star of the protests is Hedy Epstein. As the New York Times writes (and includes a picture):


One protester, Hedy Epstein, 85, a Holocaust survivor, arrived in Egypt from the United States on Saturday. She said she started a hunger strike on Monday.
“My message is for the world governments to wake up and treat Israel like they treat any other country and not to be afraid to reprimand and criticize Israel for its violent policies vis-à-vis the Palestinians,” Ms. Epstein said. “I brought a suitcase full of things, pencils, pens, crayons, writing paper to take to children in Gaza — I can’t take that back home.”

The symbiotic relationship between the publicity-seeking and equally narcissistic Epstein and the group that is more than happy to trumpet her supposed Holocaust-survivor credentials is complete.
To call Epstein a Holocaust survivor is to stretch the definition of the term. While Epstein did lose her parents in the Holocaust, she herself spent all of World War II (http://www.hedyepstein.com/abouthedy/) in England. Yet she has no problem using this non-experience as the moral fulcrum for her ego-driven moonbattery ("I can't take that back home!")

(Israel has shipped paper, pens and crayons into Gaza.)

UPDATE: Epstein has a telling interview (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=110169) in the Lebanon Daily Star. Regarding her hunger strike, she says:


“There comes a time in one’s life when one has to step up and risk one’s own body. We’re in a desperate situation here, but not as desperate as the people in Gaza.”

And here may be the key to her own hatred of Israel:


“I’ve been involved with the Israeli-Palestinian problem for many years. It probably goes back to my childhood, because I born in Germany and my parents were anti-Zionists,” she said.

“When Hitler came to power in 1933 I was 8 years old, and my parents very quickly realized that Germany is not a place to raise a family. So they tried to leave to go anywhere in the world, but there was one place they were not willing to go, and that was Palestine.”

It is possible that she is making this up after the fact, but if it is true, Epstein may be redirecting her own anger at her parents' decision - that may have led to their deaths - against the very nation that could have saved them.

People like that, who use a status that they don't deserve for thier own means just drive me crazy, especialy this story, Epstein does not have a numcer tatoed on here forarm, she did not spent the war years in a concentration camp or with partisan groups across Europe, she is no more an Holocaust survivorthan any other jew who managed to fled before the Nazis grabed them.

Warder

[IDF_TANKER]

Interesting points.

It begs the question what will happen when Israel is just another country no different than its neighbors.

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

You are making inane generalizations (ironically enough, whilst accusing in one).
If few members made such an allegation (which is, well, based on your seemingly obsessive Israel-related thread starting habits), it doesn't mean that this Forum as whole (or even many Israeli members, for this matter) automatically do it.

[Connaught Ranger]

The world would have been a better place if a Jewish state had been established on the land of Germany as a punishment for Nazi's crimes.

As opposed to their original historic homeland. :cantbeli:

[sheikhness]

The world would have been a better place if a Jewish state had been established on the land of Germany as a punishment for Nazi's crimes.

Nah, that wouldn't be half as entertaining ;)

[RoyB]

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.
Tanker already supplied you with a proper response, but I wanted to reply too, in a less manner way.
You're a liar, you generalize, and you have an obsession as already said, with everything negative about Israel.
Besides that sole new member here, who had accused you of being an 'anti-Semite', who else?
Such members are instantly criticized by fellow Israelis of making a bad name for all of us, and are urged to stop making such childish and idiotic comments.

Now, as for the subject of this thread..
I might go more in full detail later, but all I'll say is that the retard spirit is at large with these kind of people.
How can a feminist, human rights advocating organization, support a culture, society and a people, who suppress women and totally ignore human rights in general.
How can they act in favor of those who are completely against what they themselves believe in?
And how can they act against the only entity in the area which is an island of rationality which supports everything they themselves believe in, in a huge sea of insanity and radicalism?

[Yehuda]

Tanker already supplied you with a proper response, but I wanted to reply too, in a less manner way.
You're a liar, you generalize, and you have an obsession as already said, with everything negative about Israel.
Besides that sole new member here, who had accused you of being an 'anti-Semite', who else?
Such members are instantly criticized by fellow Israelis of making a bad name for all of us, and are urged to stop making such childish and idiotic comments.

Now, as for the subject of this thread..
I might go more in full detail later, but all I'll say is that the retard spirit is at large with these kind of people.
How can a feminist, human rights advocating organization, support a culture, society and a people, who suppress women and totally ignore human rights in general.
How can they act in favor of those who are completely against what they themselves believe in?
And how can they act against the only entity in the area which is an island of rationality which supports everything they themselves believe in, in a huge sea of insanity and radicalism?

childish?
if you where a foreign born Jew,instead of an Israeli,you will quickly see who is an antisemite

And i know this forum and the people inside very well,i may be new,but im reading this forum for years already

Bad name?unpatriotic lefties from meretz like you,give bad name

[OrangeWolf]

“I’ve been involved with the Israeli-Palestinian problem for many years. It probably goes back to my childhood, because I born in Germany and my parents were anti-Zionists,” she said.

“When Hitler came to power in 1933 I was 8 years old, and my parents very quickly realized that Germany is not a place to raise a family. So they tried to leave to go anywhere in the world, but there was one place they were not willing to go, and that was Palestine.”

This, wtf?


Sad to see she joins the other looneys protesting for Gaza, whatever that means.

[Yehuda]

This, wtf?


Sad to see she joins the other looneys protesting for Gaza, whatever that means.

well,she forgot to mention that most German Jews didn't wanted to go to Palestine,not because they opposed the "discrimination"or whatever you want to call it,of the Arabs,but for other reasons
also,our dear friends,the British,will not let them come here,remember the white paper

also,she left Germany before the holocaust,so,she is not a holocaust survivor

[GB_FXST]

Source:http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/01/israel-gaza-holocaust-survivor-hedy-epstein-explains-why-she-became-palestinian-rights-activist.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BabylonBeyond+%28Babylon+%26+Beyond+Blog%29

Why is this news? She is just another loony leftist with a broken moral compass who happens to be Jewish.



Interesting points.

It begs the question what will happen when Israel is just another country no different than its neighbors.

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

Criticism of Israel does not equate with anti-Semitism. However, generally speaking, obsessive and purposely misleading review of Israeli policies does prompt questions about ulterior motives.

There are no lack of tragedies and moral outrages that eclipse anything allegedly perpetrated by Israel so why the obsessive emphasis on Israel?

I doubt you personally are anti-Semitic, but your postings are routinely unfair and prejudicial to Israel.

With respect, your moral standing may not be as solid as you think. Bernard Harrison, who is not Jewish, tackles the issue of hyper criticism of Israel in his book, The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism. It may be in your interest to research it or even read it.




The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/alexander/303)
Edward Alexander (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/category/the-horizon?author_name=alexander) - 03.30.2007 - 10:01 AM The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism: Jews, Israel, and Liberal Opinion.
Bernard Harrison
Rowman & Littlefield. 224 pp. $22.95.

According to the famous 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910), “Anti-Semitism is a passing phase in the history of culture.” Since that sanguine declaration, anti-Semitism has had several very good rolls of the dice, culminating in the destruction of European Jewry.

The latest recrudescence of anti-Semitism is by now the subject of at least a half dozen books, published in America, England, France, and Italy. Their shared conclusion, set forth from a variety of perspectives, is that the physical violence of the new Jew-hatred is largely the work of young Muslims, but that the ideological violence is the work primarily of leftists, battlers against racism, professed humanitarians, and liberals (including Jewish ones).

The Resurgence of Anti-Semitism, Bernard Harrison’s superb new book, deals almost entirely with this drifting of liberals and leftists into anti-Semitism, and it brings to the subject a new authorial identity, a different academic background, and a distinctive and (despite the topic) exhilarating voice. Resurgence is also the first book on contemporary anti-Semitism by a Gentile, and a British one to boot. (According to Harrison, a professor of philosophy, this has also made him privy to the expression of anti-Semitic prejudice by apparently respectable academic people “when Jews are absent.”)

Recent years have furnished a great deal of material suited to his talents and expertise. Harrison brings to his subject the “habitual skepticism, bitterly close reading, and aggressive contentiousness” produced by “forty years in the amiable sharkpool of analytic philosophy.” His merciless deconstruction of the anti-Israel invective and smug clichés of the New Statesman, the Guardian, the Independent, the BBC, and other bastions of anti-Jewish sentiment in England reminds one of the powerful literary scrutiny pioneered in this country by the New Critics.

Harrison’s method is to scrutinize the statements of Israel-haters for internal contradictions, inconsistencies, specious reasoning, misstatements of fact, and outright lies. To read the fulminations of such people as John Pilger, Robert Fisk, or Jacqueline Rose concerning Israel ordinarily requires the mental equivalent of hip-boots; Harrison, however, takes up a rhetorical scalpel and dissects their ravings with surgical precision.

He devotes all of the book’s second chapter, for example, to a single infamous issue of the New Statesman. The cover of January 14, 2002 showed a tiny Union Jack being pierced by the sharp apex of a large Star of David, made of gold. Below, in large black letters, was a question posed with characteristic English understatement: “A Kosher Conspiracy?” It would not have been out of place in Der Stürmer; and the articles that followed it had at first suggested to Harrison that he entitle his analysis of them “In the Footsteps of Dr. Goebbels.” (He decided, however, that this would be “inadequate to the gravity of the case.”)

Among the many canards that Harrison dismembers in the book: “Israel is a colonialist state”; “Israel is a Nazi state, and the Jews who support it are as guilty as Nazi collaborators were”; “Anybody who criticizes Israel is called an anti-Semite”; “Jews do not express grief except for political or financial ends.” Take, for example, the way in which he draws out the implications of the Israel-Nazi Germany equation, without which people like Noam Chomsky would be rendered almost speechless: “To attach the label ‘Nazi’ to Israel, or to couple the Star of David with the swastika is . . . not just to express opposition . . . to the policies of one or another Israeli government. It is to defame Israel by association with the most powerful symbol of evil, of that which must be utterly rejected and uprooted from the face of the earth.”

Harrison consistently criticizes contemporary liberals who have allowed their moral indignation on behalf of Palestinians to pass into something “very hard to distinguish from anti-Semitism of the most traditional kind.” Yet he just as consistently refrains from calling them anti-Semites. (He does, however, wonder whether, in their dreams, they call themselves anti-Semites.) Thus the editor of the New Statesman who approves a cover worthy of Julius Streicher is “an entirely honest, decent man,” and Dennis Sewell, author of the essay on the Anglo-Jewish “kosher conspiracy” belongs to the rank of “sincere humanitarians.”

Two factors play a role in Harrison’s mitigation of his criticisms. One is his assumption, oft-repeated, that liberals and leftists in the past were almost always opposed to anti-Semitism. But this is open to question. In France, for example, the only articulate friends of the Jews prior to the Dreyfus Affair were conservative writers who denounced anti-Jewish attitudes as “one of the favorite theses of the 18th century.” French leftist movements of the 19th century had been outspoken in their antipathy to Jews until the Dreyfus Affair forced them to decide whether they hated the Jews or the Catholic Church more. (They became Dreyfusards.) In England, Dr. Thomas Arnold, headmaster of Rugby and father of Matthew, called English Jews “lodgers” and wanted them barred from universities and citizenship. Gladstone referred to Disraeli as “that alien” who “was going to annex England to his native East & make it the appanage of an Asian empire.” Ernest Bevin, Labor foreign minister from 1945-51, was notoriously short of sympathy in the Jewish direction.

The other, more positive motive for Harrison’s use of such delicate epithets stems, perhaps, from his education in philosophy: he seems to believe genuinely in the ability of people to self-correct, to be swayed by reason. Let us hope that he is right. My own, darker view is that a thinker’s ideas are an expression of character. If Harrison believes that he can reason into decency people like his fellow philosopher Ted Honderich, who espouses “violence for equality” and effusively sings the praises of Palestinian suicide bombers, I wish him joy in his efforts. But deductions have little power of persuasion, and I have no great hopes for his success.

Despite my quibbles, Harrison’s book is one of the necessary and indispensable utterances on the subject of these new, liberal anti-Semites, the people who are busily making themselves into accessories before the fact of Ahmadinejad’s plan “to wipe Israel off the map.” The fact that this eloquent and elegantly argued book has until now been totally ignored by book review editors is itself testimony to the alarming dogmatism that Harrison has so vividly criticized.





http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/alexander/303

[seraosha]

The only way the Palistinians will ever gain my sympathy is to move forward on social justice in non-violent ways. No more rockets, no more suicide attacks, no more calling on the destruction of Israel, but non-violent non-cooperation in the vein of Ghandi.

Guilt and shame are powerful motivators for change in a culture that has strict mores and values...but the path of external threat will only be met with a clenched fist..."Never Again" indeed.

[dindin]

History is Repeating Itself While We Look Powerless To Stop It... IT is not in our long term interests:-(

[superhemlig]

<quote>Israel is the fourth-largest military entity in the world.</quote>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops

Yeah, I see that the trend of not letting facts get in the way of a good story continues. This is poor journalism, I mean how am to believe other points and facts presented if at least one of the points presented is poorly researched. A good journalist should be able to stand behind any sentence he commits to print (tv, internet, whatever).
.

If you sort by 'number of active troops per capita' in your link, Israel comes out at fourth.

[RoyB]

History is Repeating Itself While We Look Powerless To Stop It... IT is not in our long term interests:-(
What are you implying?

[Ordie]

Criticism of Israel does not equate with anti-Semitism. However, generally speaking, obsessive and purposely misleading review of Israeli policies does prompt questions about ulterior motives.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/alexander/303

Do you think Israeli publications such as Haaretz and J Post have ulterior motives?

Don't you find it ironic that the most critical of Israeli policies are Israeli themselves? Why should non Israelis be any different?

[IDF_TANKER]

Do you think Israeli publications such as Haaretz and J Post have ulterior motives?

Don't you find it ironic that the most critical of Israeli policies are Israeli themselves? Why should non Israelis be any different?

By no means a few Haaretz left extremists, you like to quot so much, represent any substantial part of Israeli public. That's like I would to attempt finding irony in the fact, that the most vocal US critiques are the Westboro nutjobs.

[dudski]

Why is this news? She is just another loony leftist with a broken moral compass who happens to be Jewish.

x2 well said

[GB_FXST]

Do you think Israeli publications such as Haaretz and J Post have ulterior motives?

Don't you find it ironic that the most critical of Israeli policies are Israeli themselves? Why should non Israelis be any different?

Israel has its share of self hating loony leftists with broken moral compasses. Some of them do have ulterior motives and are anti-Zionists and anti-Semites.



By no means a few Haaretz left extremists, you like to quot so much, represent any substantial part of Israeli public. That's like I would to attempt finding irony in the fact, that the most vocal US critiques are the Westboro nutjobs.

Well said.

[Yehuda]

Do you think Israeli publications such as Haaretz and J Post have ulterior motives?

Don't you find it ironic that the most critical of Israeli policies are Israeli themselves? Why should non Israelis be any different?

well,i can post to you,news from arutz sheva,you will see there plenty of critics also

[sheikhness]

If you sort by 'number of active troops per capita' in your link, Israel comes out at fourth.

Well, true that, but that's a long shot from being "fourth-largest military in the world", in fact this is exactly how "spinning" works, oui?

[jetsetter]

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

I've always thought Israel has been quite generous. It is a nation equipped with nuclear weapons after all.

[Victor1]

What Israel must fear is that the ME one day becomes stable.

I disagree, I believe Israel should look forward to this day because it will be the day when US aid will be no longer needed, since there will be peace in the ME.

[GiladS]

What Israel must fear is that the ME one day becomes stable.

Really?

I actually look forward to the day when Israeli teens at age 18 will be able to go to university.

I look forward to Israel not having to put so much resources into the military.

I look forward to the day that Israel will be able to help the development of the region instead of being an isolated island of sanity.

However I don't see this day becoming a reality in the near future.

[Kaplanr]

...Epstein continued her advocacy by traveling with the women’s peace advocacy group CodePink to the Gaza Freedom March....

That right about there did her in for me.

[Hollis]

childish?
if you where a foreign born Jew,instead of an Israeli,you will quickly see who is an antisemite

And i know this forum and the people inside very well,i may be new,but im reading this forum for years already

Bad name?unpatriotic lefties from meretz like you,give bad name


Maybe you should simmer down with the antisemitic accusations. People who play that card or the nazi one do not last long on this forum.

About posting, you can go to a person's profile and look at the statistics.

Look at threads started, Ordie does start a number of threads. You will find it is of mixed topic. It was a high percentage of negatives threads on one subject, then I would be concerned. The case here, it is not.

Also our other Israeli members have also offered suggestions on how to post.

The mods on this forum do take serious a complaint on racism etc. That also goes for ones that seem to be unsubstantiated.

If you read the forum rules, there are some good suggestions on how to post. Also helps if you listen to your fellow Israeli members who have been here a while. Reason and civility will do more to help others to understand your opinions than accusations.

[Kit]

It's tricky situation. According to the Israelis, that part of their world is THEIRS. Period. Dot. Study the Mosaic Law, and you'll find that the Jews had a xenophobic society. It was be Jewish or get out or die. This has carried into the 20th Century in keeping non-Jews as second class citizens. Obviously, the IDF can't storm Palestinian neighborhoods and kill women and babies (despite what the press wants to see), but they make life pretty tough.

But Israel has a right to defend itself and lay down the smack when the time comes. If Hezbolllah fires rockets into Israel, I have no qualms with Israel giving them a good thrashing. That's what sovereign nations do. They don't forgive-and-forget when rockets are involved. Likewise, when Palestinian terrorist cells blow up a bus, Israel has every right to dispose them.

But the Israelis need to give more economic to the Palestinians. People as a whole tend to hush up if they live a middle-class lifestyle.

[SBL]

The world would have been a better place if a Jewish state had been established on the land of Germany as a punishment for Nazi's crimes.
It would only be a trade-off, swapping angry, resentful Palestinians for angry, resentful Germans. Probably a persistence of Nazi ideology, too, as their views would be "validated" to a degree.

[Yehuda]

Maybe you should simmer down with the antisemitic accusations. People who play that card or the nazi one do not last long on this forum.

About posting, you can go to a person's profile and look at the statistics.

Look at threads started, Ordie does start a number of threads. You will find it is of mixed topic. It was a high percentage of negatives threads on one subject, then I would be concerned. The case here, it is not.

Also our other Israeli members have also offered suggestions on how to post.

The mods on this forum do take serious a complaint on racism etc. That also goes for ones that seem to be unsubstantiated.

If you read the forum rules, there are some good suggestions on how to post. Also helps if you listen to your fellow Israeli members who have been here a while. Reason and civility will do more to help others to understand your opinions than accusations.
well,i dont agree but what can i tell you,you are the boss here,so i have to bow to your suggestions

[RoyB]

It's tricky situation. According to the Israelis, that part of their world is THEIRS. Period. Dot. Study the Mosaic Law, and you'll find that the Jews had a xenophobic society. It was be Jewish or get out or die. This has carried into the 20th Century in keeping non-Jews as second class citizens. Obviously, the IDF can't storm Palestinian neighborhoods and kill women and babies (despite what the press wants to see), but they make life pretty tough.
^That part of your post is crap.
The other is true.

[Connaught Ranger]

History is Repeating Itself While We Look Powerless To Stop It... IT is not in our long term interests:-(

Is this some type of cryptic prophesy :roll:

[NimDod]

But the Israelis need to give more economic to the Palestinians. People as a whole tend to hush up if they live a middle-class lifestyle.

This statment does not hold water.
The Palestinian second intifada started in 2000, when the Palestinians were in an excelent economic state - much better than ther fellow arabs in Jordan, Syria or Egypt.
And when the Palestinian echonmy was hurt, the flames of the attacks against Israel went down.

And like RoyB said, the first paragraph that you wrote is utter nonsence.

[Hollis]

It's tricky situation. According to the Israelis, that part of their world is THEIRS. Period. Dot. Study the Mosaic Law, and you'll find that the Jews had a xenophobic society. This has carried into the 20th Century in keeping non-Jews as second class citizens. Obviously, the IDF can't storm Palestinian neighborhoods and kill women and babies (despite what the press wants to see), but they make life pretty tough.




Did you actually study Halacha (Mosaic Law) or are you just saying what some one told you? One of my minors was Philosophies of religions/anthropology and I don't have a clue how anyone who has studied Halacha can say that (in bold). Or you don't understand xenophobic or...

[Yehuda]

somebody should change the name in this topic,she isn't an holocaust survivor

[Hollis]

somebody should change the name in this topic,she isn't an holocaust survivor


Got a link for that?

[Yehuda]

simple,read the text,she was born in 1924,14 years later,she left germany for england,that is 1938,the war,catched her already in england ;-)

[Clockwinder]

From her official site: http://www.hedyepstein.com/abouthedy/


On May 18, 1939, Hedy went to England on a children's transport. Five hundred children were on this transport, part of the almost 10,000 children that England took in between December 1938 and September 1, 1939, the beginning of World War II. Hedy's parents had tried for many years to leave Germany as a family, but were unsuccessful, due to emigration restrictions in various countries around the world. Finally, after consulting with the 14-year-old Hedy, her parents found a way out for her on the children's transport.
Hedy never saw her family again. Hedy's parents and other family members were deported on October 22, 1940 to Camp de Gurs, a concentration camp in what was then Vichy France. France at that time was occupied by the Nazis. Men and women were separated by barbed wire. Living conditions were horrendous. Hedy, however, did not learn of this until after the war.

[Ordie]

simple,read the text,she was born in 1924,14 years later,she left germany for england,that is 1938,the war,catched her already in england ;-)

Any living Jew from Germany or Nazi occupied Europe from that period is a Holocaust survivor regardless of the circumstances.

My former Congressman, Tom Lantos, survived the Holocaust thanks to Swedish Diplomat Raoul Wallenburg in providing him a Swedish Passport.

[Yehuda]

tom lantos was hungarian,not german
wallenberg issued passport from joly to december 1944,at that time,millions of jews already died,that lady,left way before the killings started

[Hollis]

I would think she is a victim of the Holocaust, in that with many children that were separated from their parents because of the plans of the Nazis. I also think that some of the problem is, people may think a survivor is someone who survived incarceration from one of the death or works camps.


Anyways, she is one person who has as much right as anyone else to her opinions. It is the writer of this piece that uses Holocaust to promote their agenda.

[Yehuda]

I would think she is a victim of the Holocaust, in that with many children that were separated from their parents because of the plans of the Nazis. I also think that some of the problem is, people may think a survivor is someone who survived incarceration from one of the death or works camps.


Anyways, she is one person who has as much right as anyone else to her opinions. It is the writer of this piece that uses Holocaust to promote their agenda.


interesting,your free speach ideas also include this forum?p-)p-)p-);-);-);-)
joking btw

[skyrock]

Nazi Germany deserves this kind of punishment. They lost lands to Poland and Russia after WWII. So what? They swallow the consequence of Nazi's crimes and move on. For those pissed skinheads, who cares? Well, I might be wrong, the hell will take care of them. :)


It would only be a trade-off, swapping angry, resentful Palestinians for angry, resentful Germans. Probably a persistence of Nazi ideology, too, as their views would be "validated" to a degree.

[SBL]

Nazi Germany deserves this kind of punishment. They lost lands to Poland and Russia after WWII. So what? They swallow the consequence of Nazi's crimes and move on. For those pissed skinheads, who cares? Well, I might be wrong, the hell will take care of them. :)
I think you're lacking in imagination somewhat.

[skyrock]

I think you're lacking in imagination somewhat.

What you think about me does not count anyway.

[JJC]

This is similar to Ann Coulter's beef with 9/11 widows being used by groups to promote a certain agenda. I'm not sure if she uses her Jew card and Holocaust card to promote her Palestinian activism, but it's no different than some Israeli academics or Israeli students who are "anti-Zionist" and love to uses their Israeli credentials to promote their political views. It doesn't really matter if she survived the Holocaust or if her parents were "Anti-Zionist," that doesn't change or affect facts and reality on the ground when it comes to history of Israel-Arab/Palestine conflict.

[Clockwinder]

This is similar to Ann Coulter's beef with 9/11 widows being used by groups to promote a certain agenda. I'm not sure if she uses her Jew card and Holocaust card to promote her Palestinian activism, but it's no different than some Israeli academics or Israeli students who are "anti-Zionist" and love to uses their Israeli credentials to promote their political views. It doesn't really matter if she survived the Holocaust or if her parents were "Anti-Zionist," that doesn't change or affect facts and reality on the ground when it comes to history of Israel-Arab/Palestine conflict.
^x2 What he said

[BlackWarder]

Any living Jew from Germany or Nazi occupied Europe from that period is a Holocaust survivor regardless of the circumstances.

My former Congressman, Tom Lantos, survived the Holocaust thanks to Swedish Diplomat Raoul Wallenburg in providing him a Swedish Passport.

Not true, a Holocaust survivor is some one who lived under Nazi occupied territory between 1939-1945, you know, the actual people who were forced into the gethoes and concentration camps....

Since britain never fell into german hands any jew from there is not a survivor.

Warder

[Connaught Ranger]

Not true, a Holocaust survivor is some one who lived under Nazi occupied territory between 1939-1945, you know, the actual people who were forced into the gethoes and concentration camps....

Since britain never fell into german hands any jew from there is not a survivor.

Warder

While she herself might not have been in a German camp like her parents,

she would have to be classed as an orphan who lost her parents in those camps,

like it or not her life was traumatically changed once she was removed from her parents.

But no matter what she is entitled to her views, as misguided as she may be perceived to be.

Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

my grandfather lost his entire family in the holocaust,he was at that time,in uruguay,something like 12000 km away from Europe,does he qualifies also as an holocaust survivor??p-)p-)p-)

[Hollis]

I think it would be wise to let those who have survived the Holocaust decide on who is who. Personally getting nick picky over this issue, just demeans those who are survivors and the memories of those who perished.

[Yehuda]

no,you don't understand
that woman (I refuse to call her a lady) uses her position as a holocaust 'survivor" to give moral (if its posible to call it that) support to her argumentand she didnt survived the holocasut,she was conforttable in england,while my family was massacred in europe,including my austrian family who had fougth for the kaiser less than 30 years ago
les give you a different example

what do you think if a september 11 survivor,from the towers,said that terror act was a gygantic american government conspiracy and used it to attack the global war on terror?

this is more or less the same

[Hollis]

This is similar to Ann Coulter's beef with 9/11 widows being used by groups to promote a certain agenda. I'm not sure if she uses her Jew card and Holocaust card to promote her Palestinian activism, but it's no different than some Israeli academics or Israeli students who are "anti-Zionist" and love to uses their Israeli credentials to promote their political views. It doesn't really matter if she survived the Holocaust or if her parents were "Anti-Zionist," that doesn't change or affect facts and reality on the ground when it comes to history of Israel-Arab/Palestine conflict.


It is the writer of this piece that uses Holocaust to promote their agenda.


no,you don't understand


JJC said it much better than me. Maybe your reading comprehension is off.

IMHO she is not better than Sheehan who did not give a rats butt about her son. When he was KIA, all of a sudden it was her path to fame. I have no use for people like her. They leach off of the dead.

[Yehuda]

In fact,that sheehan,who i dislike mysel also,at least she is telling the truth,her son in fact,died in the war,the other is just a liying

on the other hand,sheehan is not an arab name??

[BlackWarder]

While she herself might not have been in a German camp like her parents,

she would have to be classed as an orphan who lost her parents in those camps,

like it or not her life was traumatically changed once she was removed from her parents.

But no matter what she is entitled to her views, as misguided as she may be perceived to be.

Connaught Ranger.

It doesn't work that way, the fact that she lost her parents does not make her an holocaust survivor and calling her an holocaust survivor is an insult to actual survivors.

I have no problem with the fact that she is got leftie moonbat opinions, but she have no right to falsely claim that she is a survivor in order to farther her political view.

Warder

[Ordie]

Not true, a Holocaust survivor is some one who lived under Nazi occupied territory between 1939-1945, you know, the actual people who were forced into the gethoes and concentration camps....

Since britain never fell into german hands any jew from there is not a survivor.

Warder

But her entire family was exterminated by the Nazi, thus I consider her a survivor. Just as you would consider any family member of the decesased as a survivor.

Regardless if you been in a camp or not, the pain of loss is always the same.

[Yehuda]

my entire family was also wiped out,that makes me or my grandfather,holocaust survivors?mind was grandpa was already in america when holocaust happened

[Ordie]

my entire family was also wiped out,that makes me or my grandfather,holocaust survivors?mind was grandpa was already in america when holocaust happened

Yes............................

[BlackWarder]

Yes............................

No, it does not.

Warder

[Fat Lazy American]

Yes............................

By that standard, every Jew of Eastern European descent is a Holocaust survivor. (And most Western European Jews, as well.)

[BlackWarder]

By that standard, every Jew of Eastern European descent is a Holocaust survivor. (And most Western European Jews, as well.)

My grandather in Iraq had relatives in eastren europe, what does this make me?

Warder

[Aor]

JJC said it much better than me. Maybe your reading comprehension is off.

IMHO she is not better than Sheehan who did not give a rats butt about her son. When he was KIA, all of a sudden it was her path to fame. I have no use for people like her. They leach off of the dead.


This is similar to Ann Coulter's beef with 9/11 widows being used by groups to promote a certain agenda. I'm not sure if she uses her Jew card and Holocaust card to promote her Palestinian activism, but it's no different than some Israeli academics or Israeli students who are &quot;anti-Zionist&quot; and love to uses their Israeli credentials to promote their political views. It doesn't really matter if she survived the Holocaust or if her parents were &quot;Anti-Zionist,&quot; that doesn't change or affect facts and reality on the ground when it comes to history of Israel-Arab/Palestine conflict.

Having survived the Holocaust and being an Israeli living in Israel gives her more right to question or discuss Israeli policies than any of us that are not Israelis.

I disagree with the notion that one can be called &quot;anti-patriotic&quot;, a &quot;self-hating Jew&quot; or anything like that if their views question or criticise the beliefs or agenda of an opposite political view or a government. One should accept that people can have other political views and still love their nation and their people. If anything, people who have experienced loss due to the political realities that influenced their lives, have more right to express their grievances than others that have not.

No political wing can monopolise patriotism and no one has to interpret the realities on the ground the same as us. I don't think the Israeli government is wrong in everything that it does and I don't thing people that outright reject Israeli policies are necessarily sane, unbiased or informed. In that aspect and since I have not experienced the political realities on the ground first hand, I welcome any view that comes from Israelis on the realities they experience.

[dracon49]

When she says that if the US will stop giving us "aid" it will bring so-called peace, she doesn't know that the "aid" that the US gives us it's only 1.5% from our budget or something like that. Ppl tend to think that we so desperate for this "aid" and they have a big mistake.

[Yehuda]

Having survived the Holocaust and being an Israeli living in Israel gives her more right to question or discuss Israeli policies than any of us that are not Israelis.

I disagree with the notion that one can be called &quot;anti-patriotic&quot;, a &quot;self-hating Jew&quot; or anything like that if their views question or criticise the beliefs or agenda of an opposite political view or a government. One should accept that people can have other political views and still love their nation and their people. If anything, people who have experienced loss due to the political realities that influenced their lives, have more right to express their grievances than others that have not.

No political wing can monopolise patriotism and no one has to interpret the realities on the ground the same as us. I don't think the Israeli government is wrong in everything that it does and I don't thing people that outright reject Israeli policies are necessarily sane, unbiased or informed. In that aspect and since I have not experienced the political realities on the ground first hand, I welcome any view that comes from Israelis on the realities they experience.

she doesn't live in israel

well,you can find lots of israelis who think much different than her

[Connaught Ranger]

my entire family was also wiped out,that makes me or my grandfather,holocaust survivors?mind was grandpa was already in america when holocaust happened

Look up the definition of "entire" :roll:

[Yehuda]

my european family was more than a 100 people,all of them are dead now,the only ones that are where alive after the hoklocaust,where the ones that fled to south america

[Connaught Ranger]

no,you don't understand
that woman (I refuse to call her a lady) uses her position as a holocaust 'survivor" to give moral (if its posible to call it that) support to her argumentand she didnt survived the holocasut,she was conforttable in england,while my family was massacred in europe,including my austrian family who had fougth for the kaiser less than 30 years ago
les give you a different example

what do you think if a september 11 survivor,from the towers,said that terror act was a gygantic american government conspiracy and used it to attack the global war on terror?

this is more or less the same



So please enlighten us more to the "conforttable" conditions of the Jewish refuges in the UK during WW2.:roll:

So you claim to have an entire family massacred in WW2 and this woman lost her parents for sure in 1940 and God alone knows how many more relatives.

As for the last part of your post, 9/11 has nothing to do with the subject in hand as you fail to mention the religion, origin of your hypothetical survivor.

[Yehuda]

the uk government wasn't putting jews in concentration camp,nor killing them,nor making laws against them

are you joking?

[Hollis]

Having survived the Holocaust and being an Israeli living in Israel gives her more right to question or discuss Israeli policies than any of us that are not Israelis.




I completely disagree with your assumptions here. If your into marketing then sure. What is her expertise? Your assumptions are based on ad hominem. Assumption that being a Israeli gives her more validity on the subject. It is the same as calling her a lunny lefty, makes her comments less.

It is her expertise of the subject which would make her qualified or not. A horrific event that happened 70 years ago, is not what is being discussed. Unless some one whats to claim that the Israeli policies is like the progroms in Europe 70 years ago. Which it is no where near the case. Dog and Pony shows are just what they are, to illicit a emotional response goes against reason and meaningful discussion.

So far she can discuss her feelings on being separated from her family. That is based on experience she went through. Yes she is a Israeli, but what is her credentials/experience/expertise on Israeli policies?

As far as I can determine, she is just a marketing ploy. Who needs facts when we have emotions.

[Yehuda]

again,i repeat,she isn't israeli and she doesn't live in israel,being jewish does not make you israeli

[usmcprincipal]

I think for many, if not most (I include myself), the term "Holocaust Survivor" implies an individual lived through the experience of a Nazi concentration camp, so I understand the criticism of the woman labeling herself as a Holocaust Survivor.

However, to be forced to leave your family, home, and country at a young age to avoid persecution and possible death, as well as learning your parents were killed in a concentration camp cannot be taken lightly. The woman suffered great loss.

In my judgment, she remains a misguided zealot whose beliefs are of little consequence.

[Connaught Ranger]

the uk government wasn't putting jews in concentration camp,nor killing them,nor making laws against them

are you joking?

Do yourself a favour and get an education, you might start with reading the following:-

"Deemed Suspect, A Wartime Blunder." by Eric Koch.

Printed first in 1980.


In the spring of 1940, Eric Koch was a law student in England. Four months later he was a prisoner on Quebec.

Koch was arrested as an enemy alien by the British government and sent to a prison camp in Canada.

But he and hundreds of other "dangerous Nazi" prisoners were really refugees - most of them young and Jewish, themselves fleeing from Hitler.

Erich Koch is not bitter about his imprisonment. Like most of the refugees, he preferred it to the dangers of Nazi Europe.

But the irony of his plight was not lost on him. Written with a rare blend of honesty, humour and warmth. Koch's book vividly recreates life in Canada's prison Camps.Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

i can't belive it,but im defending the uk governmemt roflrofl
that was an isolated case,not a general policy like the germands have,and i dont think that those british camps had gas chambers or "nice"people like dr menguele

[Connaught Ranger]

i can't belive it,but im defending the uk governmemt roflrofl
that was an isolated case,not a general policy like the germands have,and i dont think that those british camps had gas chambers or "nice"people like dr menguele



If you ever read the book, then you will see it was far from an isolated case.:roll:

And what about the Jews who were were forced into these camps along with real hardcore Nazi supporters, a number of them being murdered.

No difference if in a Nazi gas chamber or having their throat-cut in the toilet block of a British camp for Aliens, at the hands of a Nazi, doesnt make them any different does it?

Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

yes it does,the nazi in the camp,killing the jews,in britain,its a guy,working,on mottu propio,not a guy sended by the government

the allies in ww2,where far from perfect,but come on,they weren't nazis

if you like to pint fingers at the uk,you can do it,for example,in a much more justified way,if you mention,the white paper,that forbid the entrance of jews into the mandate of palestine

[Connaught Ranger]

yes it does,the nazi in the camp,killing the jews,in britain,its a guy,working,on mottu propio,not a guy sended by the government

the allies in ww2,where far from perfect,but come on,they weren't nazis

if you like to pint fingers at the uk,you can do it,for example,in a much more justified way,if you mention,the white paper,that forbid the entrance of jews into the mandate of palestine

You really are clutching at straws to defend yourself when its been pointed out more than once that you are wrong.

As I have said read the book then come and make a comment.

I would gladly second the proposed nomination for you to be Dumbarse of the New Year even

Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

You really are clutching at straws to defend yourself when its been pointed out more than once that you are wrong.

As I have said read the book then come and make a comment.

Connaught Ranger.
no,im not
it was a genereal policy tirected towards ALL of the jews?or to just some unlucky few??
did those camps,have governemnt SPONSORED ,torture,killing,etc?

if thats not the case,then its not the same level of guilt

[Connaught Ranger]

no,im not
it was a genereal policy tirected towards ALL of the jews?or to just some unlucky few??
did those camps,have governemnt SPONSORED ,torture,killing,etc?

if thats not the case,then its not the same level of guilt

But its a far cry from the level of comfort you claimed in your earlier post with regards the Jews who went to the UK.:roll:

Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

ahh,nu?is me who was clutching at straws?
also,the us government,put japanese in camps,in ww2

and im sure,that compared to a nazi death or concentration camp,even the worse british camp,is like a 5 star hotel

[Connaught Ranger]

ahh,nu?is me who was clutching at straws?
also,the us government,put japanese in camps,in ww2

and im sure,that compared to a nazi death or concentration camp,even the worse british camp,is like a 5 star hotel

So now you are bring the Japanese in the U.S.A. into the thread. :roll:

Again because you seem to be slow acquiring comprehension,

YOU stated that life in the UK was Comfortable for European Jews who went there.

I posted reference that it was not so, in fact, that it was so bad that Jewish people were forced to go into Alien Internment Camps along with supporters of the Nazi cause, where some were brutally murdered.

YOU countered that that does not really matter because they were not killed by "real" Nazis on the orders of the Nazi Regime, again how you know whether they were or were not is beyond my understanding.

I state it makes no difference if a Jewish person was killed in a fully sanctioned, professionally ran Nazi extermination establishment, shot, knifed, burnt, on the side of the road, in a city street, or in an internment camp where part of the population were Alien (German / Austrian / Hungarians etc .. etc.. who supported Hitler and his ideology.

The British had no way of telling just how good the "bona-fides" were when claims were made by a Jewish person who found himself in one of the British Camps, either on the mainland UK, the Isle of Man, on the transport ships to Canada, and in the Canadian Camps, were many of the Jews remained until the end of the war in 1945.

But again you would really need to read the book to get an idea of what I mean.

Connaught Ranger.

[Yehuda]

i sayd that life ofr her,was confortable,she wasnt in those camps,and even if she was,those camps couldnt be bad as the german ones

and the one that doesn't understand is you,is not the same private actions that state sanctioned ones

[Maschinengewehrschutze]

Interesting points.

Sadly any outside criticism of Israel on this forum is equated with Anti-semitism.

Yes, it's the new heresy, this new tolerance totally closes off the door to criticism on certain subjects

[RoyB]

Yes, it's the new heresy, this new tolerance totally closes off the door to criticism on certain subjects
I'd be glad to see more than one example of someone being accused of being an anti-Semite because of he's criticism to Israel.

[GB_FXST]

Yes, it's the new heresy, this new tolerance totally closes off the door to criticism on certain subjects

Maybe some of the critics of Israel have become so shrill and so intellectually dishonest that reasonable discourse has become impossible.



I'd be glad to see more than one example of someone being accused of being an anti-Semite because of he's criticism to Israel.

I assume that he is speaking in general terms, and not specifically about this forum.

[Yehuda]

Yes, it's the new heresy, this new tolerance totally closes off the door to criticism on certain subjects

mmm,seeing your answer and your nick,i think you are on the boys of the "master race",i'm i wrong??

criticism of israel,doesnt make you an antisemite,an obssesive fixation on israel,could make you one

[Maschinengewehrschutze]

mmm,seeing your answer and your nick,i think you are on the boys of the "master race",i'm i wrong??

criticism of israel,doesnt make you an antisemite,an obssesive fixation on israel,could make you one

My nick being in German shouldnt mean anything.

[Hollis]

Yes, it's the new heresy, this new tolerance totally closes off the door to criticism on certain subjects


I'll make it super easy. IF your feel someone posts a racist post, report it. DO NOT RESPOND TO IT. This issue has been already discussed in this thread and now it is coming up again. IF you play the card, it can be played several ways, expect a holiday from this forum. This goes the same with the nazi card.