Mesić shortens Serb killer's sentence

[Stefan850]

I think it belongs more to political discussions then general, if I'm wrong I upfront apologize to the mods for the troubles of moving it.



7 January 2010 | 14:02 | Source: Tanjug ZAGREB -- Outgoing Croatian President Stjepan Mesić has decided to shorten prison time of Siniša Rimac by one year.

Rimac was sentenced to eight years in prison when Croatia's Supreme Court ruled that he personally took part in the executions of ethnic Serb civilians in the Pakračka Poljana region of western Slavonia in late 1991.

Rimac was also on trial for the murder of 12-year-old Aleksandra Zec and her parents – a family of wealthy Zagreb Serbs murdered in December 1991.

According to allegations, Rimac took part in those murders as well, as a member of a group commanded by Tomislav Merčep.

Merčep was at the time an adviser to the Croatian interior minister.

Although the group underwent trial and made statements admitting the crime, those statements were never admitted to evidence due to a procedural error.

The public and media accused then prosecutor Vladimir Šeks for this twist of events.

Merčep himself, who was mentioned in connection with crimes committed against Serbs in Zagreb, Vukovar, Pakračka Poljana and Gospić, never faced trial.

Earlier, Mesić also decided to shorten jail time of Stjepan Grandić by two years.

Grandić was a member of the so-called Gospić Group, found guilty and sentenced to ten years for organizing the killing of 23 Serb civilians from Perušić, near the town of Gospić, in the fall of 1991.
Nice. Just what we need with all the suits and countersuits flying around. Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive.

[Hyde]

Nice, let them be trialed by court, and if we don't like the outcoming, the president will just shorten their sentence, since they're heroes and all... :roll:

[Karabaja]

Stefan I believe you have unintentionally transmitted only part of the info.
You have missed the part telling about Serb war criminal who also got his prison sentence shortened.

http://www.net.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/page/2010/01/07/0045006.html

From upper link:
"Commander of the death camp in Bileća, 46 year old Branko Ljubišić, in which the Croatian soldiers and police officers were tortured, got his prison sentence shorten from 14 to 13 years."

How come you forgot to share this info?

[Bathinus]

Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive.

Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend.

Biljana Plavsic. Second President of RS, she was convicted on 2 counts of genocide, 5 counts crimes against humanity, and she was released in October 2009, after serving two-thirds of her sentance when she expressed "full remorse" for her acts. And then she was welcomed back as a hero by current PM of RS, Milorad Dodik.

There's others, but that one is most recent.

[Armox]

Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend.

Biljana Plavsic. Second President of RS, she was convicted on 2 counts of genocide, 5 counts crimes against humanity, and she was released in October 2009, after serving two-thirds of her sentance when she expressed "full remorse" for her acts. And then she was welcomed back as a hero by current PM of RS, Milorad Dodik.

There's others, but that one is most recent.
This.

Every serbian war criminal is actually considered a war hero there...that's nothing new.
As for Plavsić I'm a bit sad noone took the time or effort to assassinate that bit** once she got back...The thing that disturbs me the most that the whole Europe has it's own version of the war.
A war that they have no right to question let alone judge us for defending ourselves.
Let's face it...most of the EU and the US would have loved it if YU stayed as it was.

[Dukagjin]

Nice. Just what we need with all the suits and countersuits flying around. Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive.

just think of mladic who live freely with the help of the serbian intelligence service

[Mate]

Nice. Just what we need with all the suits and countersuits flying around. Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive.
[cough]Bytyqi brothers case[cough]

[VRS]

Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend.

Biljana Plavsic. Second President of RS, she was convicted on 2 counts of genocide, 5 counts crimes against humanity, and she was released in October 2009, after serving two-thirds of her sentance when she expressed "full remorse" for her acts. And then she was welcomed back as a hero by current PM of RS, Milorad Dodik.

There's others, but that one is most recent.

Well Suljo Tihic opened that can of worm by giving a hero's welcome to Naser Oric in 2006. Needless to say, former Prime Minister of the same government that expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs and killed thousands of them is now one of the most popular Bosnian Muslim politicians.

[INAT]

This.

Every serbian war criminal is actually considered a war hero there...that's nothing new.
As for Plavsić I'm a bit sad noone took the time or effort to assassinate that bit** once she got back...The thing that disturbs me the most that the whole Europe has it's own version of the war.
A war that they have no right to question let alone judge us for defending ourselves.
Let's face it...most of the EU and the US would have loved it if YU stayed as it was.


Every croat and muslim war criminal is actually considered a war here there...that's nothing new.See how that sounds? Yes what a horible thing it would have been for the people of Jugoslavia if the croat nationalists had not decided on insurrection.How tragic it would have been if people were allowed to live and thrive in peace.

[Bathinus]

Well Suljo Tihic opened that can of worm by giving a hero's welcome to Naser Oric in 2006. Needless to say, former Prime Minister of the same government that expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs and killed thousands of them is now one of the most popular Bosnian Muslim politicians.

You saying if Naser Oric wasn't welcomed like that by some people, then Dodik wouldnt've welcomed Biljana like he did? A bit far fetched. But for the record Sulejman Tihic is a retarded little worthless monkey. We all hate him. If he keeps getting elected my brain is going to explode.

Who's the other guy you mean?

[Armox]

Every croat and muslim war criminal is actually considered a war here there...that's nothing new.See how that sounds? Yes what a horible thing it would have been for the people of Jugoslavia if the croat nationalists had not decided on insurrection.How tragic it would have been if people were allowed to live and thrive in peace.
...Uh huh sure buddy...it's a shame though that there's lack of evidence to support these accusations of Croatian and muslim "war criminals" just some made up witnesses and documents that never existed...
Well of course serbs didn't have a problem in YU when they had everyone under their boot just like in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia...And you still here talk about Croatian nationalists while there's thousands of chetniks out there who can't wait to kill some more...Worst part of it is that most Serbs support this scum.
But I say fine...let them come...they already tried twice to bring the "Great" serbia...You can imagine what they'll get if they try again.


But hey what do I know right? It's not like there's something wrong with living for more than 50 years under communist rule right?:roll:
All I can say is this...I hope tito rots in hell along with his "freedom fighters" and I hope that cica draža is rotting with him...

[INAT]

...Uh huh sure buddy...it's a shame though that there's lack of evidence to support these accusations of Croatian and muslim "war criminals" just some made up witnesses and documents that never existed...
Well of course serbs didn't have a problem in YU when they had everyone under their boot just like in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia...And you still here talk about Croatian nationalists while there's thousands of chetniks out there who can't wait to kill some more...Worst part of it is that most Serbs support this scum.
But I say fine...let them come...they already tried twice to bring the "Great" serbia...You can imagine what they'll get if they try again.


But hey what do I know right? It's not like there's something wrong with living for more than 50 years under communist rule right?:roll:
All I can say is this...I hope tito rots in hell along with his "freedom fighters" and I hope that cica draža is rotting with him...

What you thing there will be another war between Croatia and Serbs?

[Karabaja]

Every croat and muslim war criminal is actually considered a war here there...that's nothing new.See how that sounds? Yes what a horible thing it would have been for the people of Jugoslavia if the croat nationalists had not decided on insurrection.How tragic it would have been if people were allowed to live and thrive in peace.

Ignore what he wrote because it's offtopic and lies and will only get you banned if you respond in the same matter, but there's the little white triangle with red border and exclamation mark below his avatar - use it.

[INAT]

...Uh huh sure buddy...it's a shame though that there's lack of evidence to support these accusations of Croatian and muslim "war criminals" just some made up witnesses and documents that never existed...
Well of course serbs didn't have a problem in YU when they had everyone under their boot just like in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia...And you still here talk about Croatian nationalists while there's thousands of chetniks out there who can't wait to kill some more...Worst part of it is that most Serbs support this scum.
But I say fine...let them come...they already tried twice to bring the "Great" serbia...You can imagine what they'll get if they try again.


But hey what do I know right? It's not like there's something wrong with living for more than 50 years under communist rule right?:roll:
All I can say is this...I hope tito rots in hell along with his "freedom fighters" and I hope that cica draža is rotting with him...

I hope Tito rots in hell too,at least we agree on that,I KNOW Pavelic and Tudjman are rotting right next to him.As far as Cetniks go I can say the same thing about the Ustase.Croats have no shame reviving this vile group.See everything is not as one sided as your reality tunnel appears.
Pretty simple minded of you to make such statements.
Modern Democratic Croatia.
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00883/RSNN0813B-682_883820a.jpg
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012824thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_treba.jpg

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7BDFD2AAC1-2ADE-428A-9263-35234229D8D8%7D/thompson_concert_2.jpg

http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%205.JPG
http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%204.JPG
http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%202.JPG

http://www.znaci.net/images/20135.jpghttp://i057.radikal.ru/0910/1d/84e86fca3243.jpg

[Bathinus]

Pretty sure collectively branding all of "modern democratic Croatia" as ustasa with pics of a Thompson concert and impressionable teenagers playing dress up is pure hot flamebait.

This part is real interesting though.


As far as Cetniks go I can say the same thing about the Ustase.Croats have no shame reviving this vile group.

You don't deny his acusation, insted you confirm it by acusing him back with "Croats are just as bad".

[Armox]

I hope Tito rots in hell too,at least we agree on that,I KNOW Pavelic and Tudjman are rotting right next to him.As far as Cetniks go I can say the same thing about the Ustase.


As far as I'm concerned Tudjman can rot in hell as he just fuc**d everything up...don't listen to what some people in Croatia say about him now...
He was a communist with no intentions of bringing back our 1400 year old herritage and glory but he just stabbed us in the back...He was a partisan during WW2 and an active member of the KPJ (communist party of yugoslavia) during his entire life he has worked against the Croatian people putting a wrong ideology in front...
At least Pavelic tried to bring some of the glory back...just look at the old news reels of WW2 you'll se the difference between the people then and people after it...He was loved by every single Croat during the time but communist propaganda did it's thing so there's little I can say that can change everyone's opinion on this...

As for the pictures you'll find pics like these from Germany,Hungary,Slovakia,Serbia,UK and many many other European countries who have strong NS (national socialist) movements...that's nothing new in today's world...but If I continue about this I'll just be flamed from the jewish side as well as from the liberal and communist members as well...

[INAT]

Pretty sure collectively branding all of "modern democratic Croatia" as ustasa with pics of a Thompson concert and impressionable teenagers playing dress up is pure hot flamebait.

This part is real interesting though.



You don't deny his acusation, insted you confirm it by acusing him back with "Croats are just as bad".


Well,not really I consider the Ustase much worse than the Cetniks.
The Cetniks did not have an intentional policy of genocide they reacted after the NDH and Handzar started slaughtering Serbs,the ustase had the entire backing of a state.Rember the 30-30-30 rule?

[Armox]

Well,not really I consider the Ustase much worse than the Cetniks.
The Cetniks did not have an intentional policy of genocide they reacted after the NDH and Handzar started slaughtering Serbs,the ustase had the entire backing of a state.Rember the 30-30-30 rule?
What? When the 13 th SS Handzar divison was founded, chetniks were already slaughtering civilians.The chetnik movement was not formed during WW2...it was formed much sooner...Chetniks were fighting even before NDH was founded...But they were oportunitists working both for and against the Axis.They were just as their partizan brethren scum who fought for the wrong ideals...
But it's interesting how everyone accuses the Ustashe movement for being part of genocide while they can't find any evidence in Jasenovac or Stara Gradiska for the mass murders that happened...it all comes down to "witnesses"
If it wasn't for the red army coming to these parts the partisans never should have won...they knew that that's why the Bleiburg Massacre happened...to fill their filthy egos...
100 000 civilians got slaughtered by the partisans while the british soldiers were just sitting there doing nothing...So don't start talking about genocide as the ustashe movement killed 10 times less people during the 4 years than the partisans killed in 48 hours

[Afterglow]

As far as I'm concerned Tudjman can rot in hell as he just fuc**d everything up...don't listen to what some people in Croatia say about him now...
He was a communist with no intentions of bringing back our 1400 year old herritage and glory but he just stabbed us in the back...He was a partisan during WW2 and an active member of the KPJ (communist party of yugoslavia) during his entire life he has worked against the Croatian people putting a wrong ideology in front...
At least Pavelic tried to bring some of the glory back...just look at the old news reels of WW2 you'll se the difference between the people then and people after it...He was loved by every single Croat during the time but communist propaganda did it's thing so there's little I can say that can change everyone's opinion on this...

As for the pictures you'll find pics like these from Germany,Hungary,Slovakia,Serbia,UK and many many other European countries who have strong NS (national socialist) movements...that's nothing new in today's world...but If I continue about this I'll just be flamed from the jewish side as well as from the liberal and communist members as well...

I lurked here long enough to know that starting out in a Balkan BS thread is no way to start my posting life on MP.net. Well most assuredly not a long one, but I just had to take this one. Dude please, dont insult all of us Croatians and our country by glorfying the very same guy who brought the greatest shame upon Croatian people by standing idly while horrible crimes against humanity were commited. What pride could be real and what patriotism could have any worth while it is stained by the blood of innocents? Its not about being a liberal or communist, it is about being human...things that were done under his reign were vile and you should really do some thinking on that topic.

Anyway, I apologize once again for starting out this way. I will do the proper introduction ASAP, this particular post is just something that I think needed to be said.

[Hyde]

Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend.

Biljana Plavsic. Second President of RS, she was convicted on 2 counts of genocide, 5 counts crimes against humanity, and she was released in October 2009, after serving two-thirds of her sentance .

She was sentenced and released by the International Tribunal in Den Haag. Not by Serbian judges. That's what he was talking about.

[Armox]

I lurked here long enough to know that starting out in a Balkan BS thread is no way to start my posting life on MP.net. Well most assuredly not a long one, but I just had to take this one. Dude please, dont insult all of us Croatians and our country by glorfying the very same guy who brought the greatest shame upon Croatian people by standing idly while horrible crimes against humanity were commited. What pride could be real and what patriotism could have any worth while it is stained by the blood of innocents? Its not about being a liberal or communist, it is about being human...things that were done under his reign were vile and you should really do some thinking on that topic.

Anyway, I apologize once again for starting out this way. I will do the proper introduction ASAP, this particular post is just something that I think needed to be said.
Wait a minute...You're actually protecting the red scum who did worse things in 50 years than the Poglavnik "did" in 4 years...You're just spitting on all graves of Croats who died fighting against the red scum.
Everyone seems to praise the partisans while neglecting all of the things that they did in the last parts of the war...
You can't say that the Bleiburg massacre was something that all of the civilians deserved.
And the partisan scum didn't bring shame to the country? Do you actually think that Croats who went over to the red side can be praised as heros?
They put you in the 50 year long mess...a mess from which we got out as we got in...by fighting...


MareCar
She was sentenced and released by the International Tribunal in Den Haag. Not by Serbian judges. That's what he was talking about.

Bathinus was talking about the way she was greeted when she came back...The greet only shows what the serbian public thinks about the acts commited by that whore

[Bathinus]

Well,not really I consider the Ustase much worse than the Cetniks.
The Cetniks did not have an intentional policy of genocide they reacted after the NDH and Handzar started slaughtering Serbs,the ustase had the entire backing of a state.Rember the 30-30-30 rule?

What! Say it ain't so! I'm shocked! p-)

Dude, what you need to step back and understand is, the only, I repeat only reason, you don't think the chetniks are as bad as the other two, is because you're a Serb. That's it. If you were a Croat or Bosniak or Albanian or even "Yugoslavian" they'd be the devil incarnate.

Now you guys have a habit of acusing me of "spreading lies" even when I post sources. But here you say chetniks didn't have a policy of genocide, and that chetniks only reacted AFTER Handzar and Ustasa appeared, and with no proof. Both are completly false.

For one chetniks existed long before Handzar and NDH. Handzar was founded in 1943. Draza Mihailovic already gave his famous 'instructions' (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Drazas_Instrukcije.JPG) in 1941, and several large notable massacres on Bosniaks and Croats already took place by 1943.



July 1941, Herzegovina (Bileća, Stolac) - approximately 1,150 civilians killed;
December 1941/January 1942, eastern Bosnia (Foča, Goražde) - approximately 2,050 civilians killed;
August 1942, eastern Bosnia and Sandžak (Foča, Bukovica) - approximately 1,000 civilians killed;
August 1942, eastern Bosnia (Ustikolina, Jahorina) - approximately 2,500 civilians killed;
September 1942, southern Dalmatia (Makarska) - approximately 900 civilians killed;
October 1942, Herzegovina (Prozor) - approximately 2,500 civilians killed;


Chetnik Commander Pavle Đurišić reporting to Mihailović on the execution of his '"Instructions" in 1943. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Report_Djurisic.jpg)

Glenny, The Balkans, 494-495
Lampe, Yugoslavia as History, 206, 209, 210
Cohen, Philip J., Riesman, David; Serbia's secret war: propaganda and the deceit of history;

I'm sure though, as usual you will dismiss all of it as propaganda. But then hypocriticly criticize Armox for denying Ustasa crimes. I'm sure you think throughout history, Bosniaks and others "turned on" Serbs for absolutely no reason, out of pure "evilness" or something.

[BW2]

I thought all you tards decided to not start any new or participate in any balkan political threads... but nope, you just can't let it go... any of you.

[Hyde]

Bathinus was talking about the way she was greeted when she came back...The greet only shows what the serbian public thinks about the acts commited by that whore

He replied to Stevan, who said "Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive."

with "Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend." which does not have anything to do with what Stevan said, as what Stevan said did not happen. That's why I corrected him.



But hey what do I know right? It's not like there's something wrong with living for more than 50 years under communist rule right?:roll:


That's really funny, you know that? You're saying it like the Serbs were the ones who forced everyone into communism. Like the guy who did it and then ruled for 40 years, Josip Broz, was not a Croatian-Slovene.

[Afterglow]

Wait a minute...You're actually protecting the red scum who did worse things in 50 years than the Poglavnik "did" in 4 years...You're just spitting on all graves of Croats who died fighting against the red scum.
Everyone seems to praise the partisans while neglecting all of the things that they did in the last parts of the war...
You can't say that the Bleiburg massacre was something that all of the civilians deserved.
And the partisan scum didn't bring shame to the country? Do you actually think that Croats who went over to the red side can be praised as heros?
They put you in the 50 year long mess...a mess from which we got out as we got in...by fighting...



Dude, dont put words in my mouth. Did I glorify the partisans? No. Did I justify Bleiburg? No. As far as I can recall I referred only to Ante Pavelic. For your information my family suffered a lot after WW2 in partisan reprisals and we dont even know where a bunch of them is buried and how they died. And I wish I didnt know what happened to those that we DO know about. Renouncing the regime that stained the Croatia in the eyes of ourselves and the eyes of the world doesnt mean that I condone communist reprisals or repressive regime that was ex Yugoslavia, au contraire. All political stuff stops when innocent blood is spilled. It should not have happened. Never. Ever. Any attempt to justify the crimes that happened in NDH by bringing up the victims of post WW2 massacres and communist repression is a stain on their very memory and makes you no different than those butchers that we both despise. Guess how they justified their crimes?

[Hyde]

Wait a minute...You're actually protecting the red scum who did worse things in 50 years than the Poglavnik "did" in 4 years...

Wait...are you actually defending the "Führer", downplaying the mass-murder and denying the concentration camps? :| Because that's how it sounds.

[Stefan850]

Stefan I believe you have unintentionally transmitted only part of the info.
You have missed the part telling about Serb war criminal who also got his prison sentence shortened.

http://www.net.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/page/2010/01/07/0045006.html

From upper link:
"Commander of the death camp in Bileća, 46 year old Branko Ljubišić, in which the Croatian soldiers and police officers were tortured, got his prison sentence shorten from 14 to 13 years."

How come you forgot to share this info?


http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=64308

Here is the actual link where I copied the full news from and I did it on purpose, please stop with the childish investigative remarks and insinuations.

And I apologize for breaking your little bubble, I can see that you wrote that post with much pride and joy, better luck next time.

[Stefan850]

Well we don't have to imagine, a fresh one just happend.

Biljana Plavsic. Second President of RS, she was convicted on 2 counts of genocide, 5 counts crimes against humanity, and she was released in October 2009, after serving two-thirds of her sentance when she expressed "full remorse" for her acts. And then she was welcomed back as a hero by current PM of RS, Milorad Dodik.

There's others, but that one is most recent.


Bathinus, how is that what I said? It's not. And you know it.


[cough]Bytyqi brothers case[cough]


I'll look it up. Thank you.

[Bathinus]

Bathinus, how is that what I said? It's not. And you know it.




I'll look it up. Thank you.

Explain to me how it's not simmilar? Croat criminal is released early. You say "imagine what would happen if Serbia released a Serb criminal early, we'd be eaten alive".

I post an example of a way bigger criminal going free. The only difference is Hague released her, not Serbia. Does that difference make my point completly invalid? Croat criminal released early, Serb criminal released early. You weren't eaten alive. It's not like if Serbia directly released her we'd be MORE shocked then when Hague does. It would be the opposite, Bosniaks don't expect a fair trial and sentance from Serbia just like you don't from Bosnia. If she was on trial in Serbia she'd be released even earlier then that most likely. We both know that.

[Stefan850]

Explain to me how it's not simmilar? Croat criminal is released early. You say "imagine what would happen if Serbia released a Serb criminal early, we'd be eaten alive".

I post an example of a way bigger criminal going free. The only difference is Hague released her, not Serbia. Does that difference make my point completly invalid? Croat criminal released early, Serb criminal released early. You weren't eaten alive. It's not like if Serbia directly released her we'd be MORE shocked then when Hague does. It would be the opposite, Bosniaks don't expect a fair trial and sentance from Serbia just like you don't from Bosnia. If she was on trial in Serbia she'd be released even earlier then that most likely. We both know that.

I was looking at it the other way, and I still do, I believe the Hate/outrage or whatever would be greater if Biljana Plavsic was in Serbian prison, and Tadic cut her time short.

And anyway, I see a big difference there, I dont know, maybe because I would be very pissed if Tadic cut some Serbian war criminals time short and I wouldn't be so pissed if Hague did it.

[Dolph BG]

I thought all you tards decided to not start any new or participate in any balkan political threads... but nope, you just can't let it go... any of you.
Its impossible.Get use to it :-P

[G-AWZT]

I hope Tito rots in hell too,at least we agree on that,I KNOW Pavelic and Tudjman are rotting right next to him.As far as Cetniks go I can say the same thing about the Ustase.Croats have no shame reviving this vile group.See everything is not as one sided as your reality tunnel appears.
Pretty simple minded of you to make such statements.
Modern Democratic Croatia.
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00883/RSNN0813B-682_883820a.jpg
http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012824thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_treba.jpg

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7BDFD2AAC1-2ADE-428A-9263-35234229D8D8%7D/thompson_concert_2.jpg

http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%205.JPG
http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%204.JPG
http://www.leksikon-yu-mitologije.net/files/Thompson%20koncert%20Zagreb%20Jelacic%202.JPG

http://www.znaci.net/images/20135.jpghttp://i057.radikal.ru/0910/1d/84e86fca3243.jpg



Whoa..............................

Now that is scary.

[G-AWZT]

Oh and uh............more allied airmen were saved by the Cetniks than Tito's partizans who also saved downed allied pilots.
Needless to say no allied pilot was saved by the Ustashe or the Muslim Waffen SS volunteers.

[V.I.D.]

I can see this thread going places, that's for sure. It's good to see that we have an open Ustasha admirer (worse scum than SS troops for those that don't know about Ustasha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e)

Afterglow, welcome to the MP.Net.

Stefan, you're a smart guy. I think you ought to know by now what these kinds of threads will lead to......I don't want to see a permanent ban on Balkan-related themes. Perhaps it's better not to discuss every topic. I hope you take my suggestion/comment the right way as I really don't want to sound preachy.

Regards,
V.I.D.

[G-AWZT]

...a mess from which we got out as we got in...by fighting...





Oh yeah the so called Croat Spring of '71 where Ustashe nationalists bombed theatres, Yugoslav cultural centres, and JAT flight 367. At least Vesna Vulovic managed to survive that horrible crash. The UDBA went after those thugs big time.

[Bathinus]

Whoa..............................

Now that is scary.

Do pics and videos of present day chetniks scare you as much as these ustasa ones? Just curious.


Oh and uh............more allied airmen were saved by the Cetniks than Tito's partizans who also saved downed allied pilots.
Needless to say no allied pilot was saved by the Ustashe or the Muslim Waffen SS volunteers.

And? Is this somehow supposed to be a universal absolving pass of any wrong doing? Doesn't change the fact they collaborated with Germans, Italians, and even NDH itself. You'd think that last one at least would be a no-no, since NDH killed so many Serbs. But apperantly they had no problem with any of it.

So....what's your point?

[Stefan850]

So....what's your point?


Point is we are all far from angles and we can all find stuff the other ones did so we should stick to the topic at hand and discuss one thing at the time instead of just running all over the balkan history.

It is my fault also that I put that comment "Imagine if Tadic...", us constantly comparing things instead of judging them one at the time and condemning when needed, again one at the time (irelevant who's acts we judge) is one of the reasons why Balkan discussions never work here, which is a shame.

[Stefan850]

I can see this thread going places, that's for sure. It's good to see that we have an open Ustasha admirer (worse scum than SS troops for those that don't know about Ustasha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e)

Afterglow, welcome to the MP.Net.

Stefan, you're a smart guy. I think you ought to know by now what these kinds of threads will lead to......I don't want to see a permanent ban on Balkan-related themes. Perhaps it's better not to discuss every topic. I hope you take my suggestion/comment the right way as I really don't want to sound preachy.

Regards,
V.I.D.

Oh, you are absolutely right, I will fall back with both new threads and discussions a little bit, I still have trouble sustaining my emotions and not answering on simplistic, cheap provocations or expressing my anger (in a form of opening a new thread) when I feel Serbs have been wronged. But I at least try.

Off topic, here I come :)

[Dolph BG]

I guess we will never have peace in the Balkans???S**t,just as I thought otherwise.I hope Serbia and Croatia get soon in EU.And in the 10 years my monthly salary becomes 2500 euros so I could go to Belgrade and Dubrovnik on weekend vacation every month.You can still fight over waffen ss,chetniks,tito and whoever you want.
Peace!

[Bathinus]

Point is we are all far from angles and we can all find stuff the other ones did so we should stick to the topic at hand and discuss one thing at the time instead of just running all over the balkan history.

It is my fault also that I put that comment "Imagine if Tadic...", us constantly comparing things instead of judging them one at the time and condemning when needed, again one at the time (irelevant who's acts we judge) is one of the reasons why Balkan discussions never work here, which is a shame.

We were doing that man, untill INAT started posting pictures of people in Ustasa costumes and talking about "Croat insurrection". His comments on how the chetniks are better than ustasa sure didn't help either. He knows people won't be able to resist responding to such nonsense, and here we are now.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Its impossible.Get use to it :-P

Get used to what?

To balkan threads and the flame bait instigators who participate in them being banned permanently?

Sort yourselves out or you all know exactly how it will end.

Cereal.

[WDECT]

That photo of innocent little kids in the ustashi uniform is disturbing to me.

[Muc91]

I think it belongs more to political discussions then general, if I'm wrong I upfront apologize to the mods for the troubles of moving it.



Nice. Just what we need with all the suits and countersuits flying around. Imagine president Tadic shorting a sentence for some Serb monster that killed Bosnian/Albanian/Croatian 12 year old girl, we would be eaten alive.

You should inform yourself about numerous Serbian war criminals pardoned by Stjepan Mesić in the last 10 years instead of opening flame bait threads like this one.

http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/mesic-pomilovao-jos-dvojicu-ratnih-zlocinaca/271020.aspx
http://www.demokratski-centar.hr/content/view/590/46/
http://www.hrt.hr/arhiv/2001/03/26/HRT0040.html

IMO, war criminals should not have their sentences reduced after being confirmed by a second degree court/court of appeals. Regardless of their nationality.

[Karabaja]

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=64308

Here is the actual link where I copied the full news from and I did it on purpose, please stop with the childish investigative remarks and insinuations.

And I apologize for breaking your little bubble, I can see that you wrote that post with much pride and joy, better luck next time.

Then it's funny how your website forgot to tell about the Serb war criminal Branko Ljubišić who got his prison sentence shorten on the same day.

[Nebelwerfer.]

That photo of innocent little kids in the ustashi uniform is disturbing to me.


Picture was taken at Bleiburg, where many Croats perished in 1945. Every year there is a commemoration and mass being held for those victims and most of the people that come there are normal but sometimes retards like these show up there. That picture really pisses me off and I'm a Croat, I would love to smack the sh*t of that retarded dumbass.

[OrangeWolf]

As far as I'm concerned Tudjman can rot in hell as he just fuc**d everything up...don't listen to what some people in Croatia say about him now...
He was a communist with no intentions of bringing back our 1400 year old herritage and glory but he just stabbed us in the back...He was a partisan during WW2 and an active member of the KPJ (communist party of yugoslavia) during his entire life he has worked against the Croatian people putting a wrong ideology in front...
At least Pavelic tried to bring some of the glory back...just look at the old news reels of WW2 you'll se the difference between the people then and people after it...He was loved by every single Croat during the time but communist propaganda did it's thing so there's little I can say that can change everyone's opinion on this...

As for the pictures you'll find pics like these from Germany,Hungary,Slovakia,Serbia,UK and many many other European countries who have strong NS (national socialist) movements...that's nothing new in today's world...but If I continue about this I'll just be flamed from the jewish side as well as from the liberal and communist members as well...

This... just wow. I hold no grudge against Croats, but this is insane. Just look at the kind of lingo you use? For telling that this sick beast Pavelic tried to bring back honor you're afraid to get flamed by Jews, Liberals and Communists? Well considering he ran a nation with death camps even shocking the Germans don't be surprised if you do get flamed. Guess what, I am neither Jewish, Liberal nor Communist, and I feel very tempted to lose my civilty when I read stuff like this.

It is funny how in much Europe they want to portray the Sers as an ultra-natonalistic bunch, but praising a Nazi maniac like Pavelic for tryin to restore order is far far worse.

[Karabaja]

This... just wow. I hold no grudge against Croats, but this is insane. Just look at the kind of lingo you use? For telling that this sick beast Pavelic tried to bring back honor you're afraid to get flamed by Jews, Liberals and Communists? Well considering he ran a nation with death camps even shocking the Germans don't be surprised if you do get flamed. Guess what, I am neither Jewish, Liberal nor Communist, and I feel very tempted to lose my civilty when I read stuff like this.

It is funny how in much Europe they want to portray the Sers as an ultra-natonalistic bunch, but praising a Nazi maniac like Pavelic for tryin to restore order is far far worse.

Judging all Croats because of something that one man said and because of a few pictures, nice.
I somewhere saw that there are some US citizens members/supporters of Al Qaeda, so logical conclusion is that all or large part of US citizens are Al Qaeda members/supporters.

[Paya]

The funniest thing about these Balkan bitch-fests is that you get the impression that if we all met somewhere we would shoot each other on sight, while we would probably end up in a kafana (well, probably not Dukadjin and the ustasha poster-boy). Beers would be drunk, blunts lighted, and the topic of the conversation would stray away from politics. It's a classic story for us Balkanites. We hate the idea of each other, but it's hard looking into another normal human being's eyes and hate him.

We have a ****ed up mentality, that's for sure.

[Armox]

This... just wow. I hold no grudge against Croats, but this is insane. Just look at the kind of lingo you use? For telling that this sick beast Pavelic tried to bring back honor you're afraid to get flamed by Jews, Liberals and Communists? Well considering he ran a nation with death camps even shocking the Germans don't be surprised if you do get flamed. Guess what, I am neither Jewish, Liberal nor Communist, and I feel very tempted to lose my civilty when I read stuff like this.

It is funny how in much Europe they want to portray the Sers as an ultra-natonalistic bunch, but praising a Nazi maniac like Pavelic for tryin to restore order is far far worse.
No offence but what do you know about what was going on around here during the war?
Stuff from the history books is not enough too see the full picture.
You don't even know why the Ustasha movement was founded.
Just ask anyone that was alive at the time and you'll hear that they had a better life than they had during YU...Why? Because not only they had their national identity which was and still is very important to every person not to mention a Croat.
They had their own country after more than 700 years.
Just look at the newsreels at the time...You won't be able to see a single Croat "suffering" well that's how the allies thought that most civilians in the Axis countries were doing.
Just look before the end of the war that is before the fall of Croatia how people reacted to it...You think that the average joe was really supporting the partisan scum? Do you?
If you want a clearer picture about the mentality of the Croatian people at the time,just look up the Siege of Odzak...The last region in these parts that actually lasted longer than Berlin...
About the "death camps". By some people more than 700 000 people got "killed" there 700 000...You can see the exaggeration of the numbers right here.But yes people remember something that never happened but don't remember all of the chetnik and partisan war crimes that happened at the time.
Well that really doesn't suprise me as the allies were the ones who helped the partisans with the Bleiburg Massacre in which more than 100 000 civilians got killed...But yes of course I forgot...Allies were our "saviours":roll:
I can't thank them enough for putting us in a 50 year long communist rule where more than a million Croats during the 50 years got either killed,displaced or just "disappeared"...I just can't.
All I know is that all EU countries don't care about what really happened and what they did but they still have the nerve to criticize us.


The funniest thing about these Balkan bitch-fests is that you get the impression that if we all met somewhere we would shoot each other on sight, while we would probably end up in a kafana (well, probably not Dukadjin and the ustasha poster-boy). Beers would be drunk, blunts lighted, and the topic of the conversation would stray away from politics. It's a classic story for us Balkanites. We hate the idea of each other, but it's hard looking into another normal human being's eyes and hate him.

We have a ****ed up mentality, that's for sure.
Speak for yourself...
I don't know what's going on there in Serbia and I don't really care but there's a slim chance you'll find something like that here.
Or maybe you will...I don't know or care.But you won't expect the same greeting that other people get that's for sure

Oh yeah the so called Croat Spring of '71 where Ustashe nationalists bombed theatres, Yugoslav cultural centres, and JAT flight 367. At least Vesna Vulovic managed to survive that horrible crash. The UDBA went after those thugs big time.
Oh really now? So in your opinion it was better for everyone to stay in the communist mess and not fight for independence? Interesting indeed...
You don't know jack about our history let alone our mentality so don't talk bullsh**.
We did what was necessary to get our independence back.But of course like I said everyone just listens to the commie propaganda and doesn't want to listen to other sides of the story.But like I said it doesn't matter.I don't really care what other people think about this glorious country...I really don't...As long as you don't step foot in it with that attitude I won't be bothered.
If the same thing happened to let's say the UK or US noone would think of it as terrorist acts...I guess that only some countries have the right to fight for freedom

[Paya]

Speak for yourself...
I don't know what's going on there in Serbia and I don't really care but there's a slim chance you'll find something like that here.
Or maybe you will...I don't know or care.But you won't expect the same greeting that other people get that's for sure

well, probably not Dukadjin and the ustasha poster-boy
...........................

[Armox]

...........................
Yes yes carry on with the bashing then.

[Afterglow]

The funniest thing about these Balkan bitch-fests is that you get the impression that if we all met somewhere we would shoot each other on sight, while we would probably end up in a kafana (well, probably not Dukadjin and the ustasha poster-boy). Beers would be drunk, blunts lighted, and the topic of the conversation would stray away from politics. It's a classic story for us Balkanites. We hate the idea of each other, but it's hard looking into another normal human being's eyes and hate him.

We have a ****ed up mentality, that's for sure.

+1 on this. I have never ever witnessed any trouble or politics talk when working/drinking with guys from all across the ex Yu, and there have been occasions where there would be guys from Kosovo, BiH ( all entities ), Serbia and Croatia at the same table. The talk always shifts to more important things like football or music.

Also, Armox, you are by no way a representative of public opinion in Croatia. Or you never worked with people from other countries so you have hard time understanding the concept of disassociating human beings from politics and events.

Also. G-AWZT I think you are trying to provoke a flame by your characterization of Croatian spring. Read thy history before commenting. It wasnt even a move for independence, it was a political movement that never even had the intention of breaking up ex Yu and back then the government cracked down on any attempt to disagree with the system by painting the dissenters as ustashe, chetniks, counter revolutionaries... But I stray offtopic.

[Armox]

+1 on this. I have never ever witnessed any trouble or politics talk when working/drinking with guys from all across the ex Yu, and there have been occasions where there would be guys from Kosovo, BiH ( all entities ), Serbia and Croatia at the same table. The talk always shifts to more important things like football or music.
Yes,Yes we all love each other and can't wait to put everything back as it was :roll:
Hail the YU brotherhood :roll:

[Torrin]

Armox the Allies didn't put us in to 50 years of communisem, our own communist party KPJ with Tito as the main figure took care of that during the war. I honeustly agree that communisem and the single party system was the worst thing that happend in x Yu but you can't really blame anyone but the KPJ and the people of Yugoslavia for falling to their propaganda.

[Paya]

No one mentioned Yugoslavia here. I have no love lost for that country, or the political system that ran it.

"Brotherhood and unity" concept was a farce, an attempt to force us into a single national identity, a Yugoslav one (though that was done in a similar fashion in many Western countries, though centuries earlier).

What I'm talking about here are relations between individuals, not peoples.

[Armox]

Armox the Allies didn't put us in to 50 years of communisem, our own communist party KPJ with Tito as the main figure took care of that during the war. I honeustly agree that communisem and the single party system was the worst thing that happend in x Yu but you can't really blame anyone but the KPJ and the people of Yugoslavia for falling to their propaganda.
All I'm saying is that the partisans got the support from the Allies.Weapons and other supplies.And even with that they had a hard time dealing with the Axis forces.They were unorganised guerillas...Nothing more...And if it wasn't for the allies bombing the sh** out of our cities and the Red Army crossing our border they wouldn't have won.
And yes I agree...But the people of Yugoslavia aren't the only ones who fell for the communist propaganda...Most of the people of Europe fell also with the "heart braking" story of the time...you can even see it in the yugoslavian propaganda movies after the war.
Some of them were even filmed with the help of Hollywood.

But it's just sad to see that all of the surrendered soldiers and civilians that died in the hands of the partisans just got forgotten.
Noone really gives a damn about the Bleiburg massacre and I know that most people on this site even support it so there's no reason for fighting it...It's just how it is and how it'll stay...
The thing is that those "freedom fighters" actually were worser than any axis force at the time.

But hell what do I know,right? Seems that everyone knows our history better than we do...Everyone is a smarta**
But I'm glad I met someone here that agrees the communist era was bad.
For Croats,Bosniaks and Slovenes...Serbs obviously didn't have a problem with it when they had everyone under their boot...

No one mentioned Yugoslavia here. I have no love lost for that country, or the political system that ran it.

"Brotherhood and unity" concept was a farce, an attempt to force us into a single national identity, a Yugoslav one (though that was done in a similar fashion in many Western countries, though centuries earlier).

What I'm talking about here are relations between individuals, not peoples.
Wow I can't believe that I actually agree with you on this...I'm a bit suprised...don't know why...I just am...
Well a farce or not you still have to agree that they had it running pretty good for 50 years...But I don't know how that a**hole even figured that he can put all of these different nationalities,with different religions and mentalities all in one


Hmm looks like I also have to explain something to all of these anti croat/bosniak bashers...Seeing as I'm the only one that actually is bothered with the behaviour of some members here...
It's common sense to believe that most croats and bosniaks (well the two entities that aren't serbs of course)hate serbs...And I know that Serbs hate us...But could you really blame us?
Well could you? We waged more wars among each others than any other nationalities to date...And I agree that's not normal...But somehow every time there's an individual that rises to power and uses it to fight for the his twisted ideologies...Like when at one point most Serbs thought Croats as actually Serbs.And not to mention the Great Serbia dream...which is nothing more than a dream...You can bash me as long as you want but I'm saying it how it is...
Now don't get me wrong...This isn't just from the serbian side and most croatian movements were founded as an answer to the repression of our people be it the serbian,communist or any other repression...the Ustashe movement during the Kingdom of Yugoslavia for example...So why did most serbs got kicked out from these parts when Croatia was founded in 1941? Well mostly because it was an answer to the Karađorđević's regime and what he did to us...And I know...I know that most serbs support that kind of behaviour towards us...so before someone,anyone tries to bash on us please learn our history before doing so...
I'm not saying that I'll ever forgive the serbs and commies for what they did to us but I must say it now and I won't say it again that I only have some respect towards serbs...nothing more...
But my attitude like this is also the same for the Turks as they did even more worser stuff...Now most of you guys will say "hey,that's ancient past why do you care about that?"
well I do care...in fact most Croats care about it...we're a proud people and we care for both our people,our country,our culture,religion etc. you people may laugh at me for any reason at all...I'm just saying how it is and how it'll stay...

[Dolph BG]

The funniest thing about these Balkan bitch-fests is that you get the impression that if we all met somewhere we would shoot each other on sight, while we would probably end up in a kafana (well, probably not Dukadjin and the ustasha poster-boy). Beers would be drunk, blunts lighted, and the topic of the conversation would stray away from politics. It's a classic story for us Balkanites. We hate the idea of each other, but it's hard looking into another normal human being's eyes and hate him.

We have a ****ed up mentality, that's for sure.
Very true Paya,I have worked with many Serbians.And we avoided talks about Fyrom and western(eastern) outskirts.We put hard talk on rakiya(slivovitsa),women and Goran Bregovich :-))).Some of the best colleagues I ever had were Serbians.I had a friendship for while with Bosnians from Sarajevo,very nice people.Again talk about women,music and sport.Many of my friend had been to Dubrovnik,Croatia and said is great and the people were very nice and friendly.Especially in Zagreb.But I had verbal fight face to face with fyromians and their stealing of our history.

[Lokos]

I have an idea. Shut up. All of you. Immediately.

It is insane that after at least THREE distinct periods of bans on Balkans topics, you persist with the SAME unadulterated idiocy. Stop embarrassing yourselves. It's pathetic. You absolute children.

L.

[Armox]

I have an idea. Shut up. All of you. Immediately.

It is insane that after at least THREE distinct periods of bans on Balkans topics, you persist with the SAME unadulterated idiocy. Stop embarrassing yourselves. It's pathetic. You absolute children.

L.
Oh,excuse us Balkan barbarians or animals or whatever you call us that don't live up to your "civilized" EU and/or US expectations please teach us your ways almighty ones:roll:


Also, Armox, you are by no way a representative of public opinion in Croatia. Or you never worked with people from other countries so you have hard time understanding the concept of disassociating human beings from politics and events.
And you are a representitive of the public opinion?:roll:
+ What do you know about me or my life?...You don't know anything about me so please don't talk gibberish...
Politics and events are some things that make or don't make us humans...It's how we deal with these issues that makes us humans.

[Dolph BG]

I have an idea. Shut up. All of you. Immediately.

It is insane that after at least THREE distinct periods of bans on Balkans topics, you persist with the SAME unadulterated idiocy. Stop embarrassing yourselves. It's pathetic. You absolute children.

L.
There is nothing embarrassing about defending your believes/country or political stands.So don't you think that Balkans thread shouldn't be allowed?And is not insane,people in the Balkans have been fighting for piece of land since the dawn of age.Just because you don't understand,doesn't mean is insane or childish.If you don't like this thread don't visit it or better,write the moderators to shut it down.I'm not saying this verbal fight here are right,not at all,but they are not avoidable.Its a lot of hatred here which people outside of the Balkans don't understand.Its just the way it is :-(:-(:-(

[Armox]

There is nothing embarrassing about defending your believes/country or political stands.So don't you think that Balkans thread shouldn't be allowed?And is not insane,people in the Balkans have been fighting for piece of land since the dawn of age.Just because you don't understand,doesn't mean is insane or childish.If you don't like this thread don't visit it or better,write the moderators to shut it down.I'm not saying this verbal fight here are right,not at all,but they are not avoidable.Its a lot of hatred here which people outside of the Balkans don't understand.Its just the way it is :-(:-(:-(
^
THIS
good job Dolph
That's what I was trying to say all along.
I said it multiple times that foreigners don't know exactly what's going on so I fail to see why they have to comment on things that they don't understand.
If you guys hate us so much then just make a rule that there can't be any political not military Balkan related threads and those that still turn up they get deleted and that's it.No need to ban or anything.
Like Dolph said you people can't understand all of the hatred between us and you never will so instead of saying how we're animals or barbarians try to relax a bit and let it go...Sooner or later discussions like this end with no "winners"...and if these threads bother you that much don't read them and don't reply to them...it's that simple...I don't reply on threads that are not of my concern i.e the political situation in the US so why would you guys reply to this if you don't know the political situation? I don't care how much books you read or how many people you talked to you're not living here and so you can't get a real picture of most of these situations

[Stefan850]

Lokos is a Serb living in Australia, and he also knows a thing or two about defending ones country and people.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Oh,excuse us Balkan barbarians or animals or whatever you call us that don't live up to your "civilized" EU and/or US expectations please teach us your ways almighty ones:roll:

He just happens to be from your part of the world, more or less, so he has every right to comment.

You should really pay attention to his post.

Last chance people. Sort your attitudes out or i'll trawl back through this thread and suspend/ban with 'Balkan' abandon.

[Dolph BG]

I'm playing nice :-*$
P.S.I was wondering why this thread was open at first palce.To discuss about some guy who was a war criminal,but was released a year later,or his sentence was shorten by 1 year.It ridiculous.Its flame from the beginning.


Peace!

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Think of it as a test.

A barometer of the progress of the collective Balkan membership.

[Armox]

Think of it as a test.

A barometer of the progress of the collective Balkan membership.
Why do I have a feeling that we didn't "pass" the test? p-)

[G-AWZT]

Oh really now? So in your opinion it was better for everyone to stay in the communist mess and not fight for independence? Interesting indeed...
You don't know jack about our history let alone our mentality so don't talk bullsh**.
We did what was necessary to get our independence back.But of course like I said everyone just listens to the commie propaganda and doesn't want to listen to other sides of the story.But like I said it doesn't matter.I don't really care what other people think about this glorious country...I really don't...As long as you don't step foot in it with that attitude I won't be bothered.
If the same thing happened to let's say the UK or US noone would think of it as terrorist acts...I guess that only some countries have the right to fight for freedom


I know plenty of Yugo history. I grew up on it through friends and family. Being of Serbian heritage my father's side from the Krajina and my mother's from Vojvodina I'm well versed.
I spent many a summer from 1970-1988 in the former Yugoslavia. Some of my earliest memories are from Pionirski Grad in the early mid 70s spending time with kids from all over Yugo. Quite a time. Taking the train from Belgrade to visit my relatives in Vinkovci for a day trip.
The only other American I ever met was a kid from Montgomery Alabama of all places, not far from my hometown of Tallahassee Fl.
I recall how my two sister and I would throw a frisbee back and forth and kids looking and wondering what the hell we were playing with. Great times indeed.

[OrangeWolf]

I am not taking sides. I do not hate Croats nor Serbians. But here I see Armox praising the time when his country was run by a fascist moron and a sick anti-Semitic regime, how could I not care to see someone say this. On top of that this:

About the "death camps". By some people more than 700 000 people got "killed" there 700 000...You can see the exaggeration of the numbers right here.But yes people remember something that never happened

How can this go unnoticed? You are sick for promoting this revisionist bull****.

---

Guess what the Netherlands had fascists weirdos who flirted with the Nazis and were more than happy to help them put our fellow countrymen into camps, sure they brought discipline and a fake feeling of honor. They were scum, all of these Nazi flirting idiots. I hope the time will come all Croats can be proud of themselves, a part of that pride is hating the fascist scum who have perverted everything in the name of nationalism and honor.

The year is 2010 and still someone can say "people rememeber something that never happened"

You disgust me more than anyone I ever saw posting on this forum, you and anyone who defends your posts.

[Armox]

I am not taking sides. I do not hate Croats nor Serbians. But here I see Armox praising the time when his country was run by a fascist moron and a sick anti-Semitic regime, how could I not care to see someone say this. On top of that this:


How can this go unnoticed? You are sick for promoting this revisionist bull****.

---

Guess what the Netherlands had fascists weirdos who flirted with the Nazis and were more than happy to help them put our fellow countrymen into camps, sure they brought discipline and a fake feeling of honor. They were scum, all of these Nazi flirting idiots. I hope the time will come all Croats can be proud of themselves, a part of that pride is hating the fascist scum who have perverted everything in the name of nationalism and honor.

The year is 2010 and still someone can say "people rememeber something that never happened"

You disgust me more than anyone I ever saw posting on this forum, you and anyone who defends your posts.
:cantbeli:Well why didn't you quote my entire sentence? Huh?
Or even my entire post?Did you even read the post? You just read the first and last sentence and you think you got a clear picture about the whole thing.Like I said politics were one thing at the time and the stuff that a average Croatian soldier that was fighting for was a whole different thing.
They didn't die for nothing...They didn't die so that some foreigner who doesn't have a clue about the Ustasha movement or Croatia itself can spit on their graves 60 years later.
I know that you support the things the partisans did to the Croatian civilians in '45 among everything else the communist scum did to us during the 50 years of dictatorship...You come here and say that you're against the alleged war crimes but you don't say anything against the war crimes commited by the allies...
Oh come on...you really don't think that 700 000 is an exaggerated number?
Just look at the demographic charts from the time and you'll see that there's no way that 700 000 jews were in Croatia at the time.:|So what happened? Jews fell of the sky right in the camps?
I'm not saying that the camps didn't exist as that would be wrong but what I am saying is that there's no way,no way at all that 700 000 people got killed in the Jasenovac camp...Hell that's even more than in some camps in Germany at the time :|
I'd say that no more than 50 000 people died at the camps...Died not killed...
But like I said you don't care and you don't want to know...instead you talk bullsh**.

It's amazing though how everyone on this forum blames us "balkan barbarians" as you call us for Flamebait when the rest of you do the same thing...

[Stefan850]

Wow, I'm speechless. I dont want to guess but I would place a bet that you are making your fellow Croatian members of this board feel very embarrassed because of you. I know I would be.

Anyway, it was an obvious mistake to open up a thread about this, but not because it's a "flame thread" like someone said, it's not a flame thread. Something relevant for the Serbian/Croatian relations happened and in normal circumstances it deserves a discussion.
If we were all cool headed (and anti fascist if we count Armox) there could be proper discussions but since we're not, there is no such thing in sight.
If I stopped for a second to think I would know that nothing good would come out of starting this topic, no good arguments, nothing to contribute to this board etc but I didn't, I got a little mad at the news and posted it "for the world to see!"

For that I apologize, we "Balkan" members are really overwhelming the board, especially the Political Discussions with our sh1t, and it will suck when the result of that becomes a new ban on everything Balkan.


Now carry on.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

A good note to end it on I think.

Take note all.

You have proven that you are able to discuss issues in a rational manner.

Continue to do so and there will be no problems.

Go back down the road this thread went and there will be.