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J-10
07-18-2004, 12:47 AM
July 18, 2004
Political Winds Shift in S.F.'s Chinatown
The red flag of China flies in historic break with Taiwan-based Nationalist Party.
By Rone Tempest, Times Staff Writer

SAN FRANCISCO — Not so long ago, said Taiwanese official Paul Chang, the view of Chinatown from his fifth-floor office window was a comforting sight — a sea of "blue sky, white sun" Nationalist flags fluttering in the bay breeze.

Today, what Chang sees is mostly red.

Flapping from more than a dozen spires and flagpoles atop the ornate old buildings here, the bold red banner of the People's Republic of China now dominates the Chinatown skyline alongside the American Stars and Stripes.

The proliferation of red flags does not mean the famous 150-year-old enclave has suddenly embraced communism. But local leaders say the banners do mark a major break with the Taiwan-based Nationalist Party, or Kuomintang, which has been an important power broker here for nearly a century.

David Lee, director of the Chinese American Voters Education Committee, said the shift is a major victory for the Beijing government in its attempt to win the hearts and minds of the important overseas Chinese community.

"This is the mother charter. This is where all the cultural societies and associations have their headquarters," Lee said. "Foreign governments see San Francisco Chinatown as a key battleground for overseas Chinese in North America. They recognize that what San Francisco does could set the tone elsewhere."

At stake in the battle is not only goodwill but also a good deal of money. Overseas Chinese have been major investors in Taiwan and China. Older Chinese honor their ancestors by building schools and restoring old homes in their ancestral villages.

The most recent example of the conversion in San Francisco came when two leaders of the Chinese Six Companies — the most powerful and important Chinese benevolent society — broke with tradition and refused to take their oath of office before the Nationalist flag or sing its anthem at the association's elegant meeting hall, a Qing Dynasty-era building guarded by six stone lions.

When die-hard Nationalists went to court to block the July 3 installation of one of the rebel leaders — incoming Six Companies President Tony Lok Kwan — a state judge ruled against them.

The emboldened Kwan then defiantly staged his own inauguration in a local restaurant, where the People's Republic flag was displayed and Chinese Consul General Peng Keyu was an honored guest. The Taiwanese envoy who traditionally presided over such events was left out in the cold.

"It was like George Bush suddenly deciding he didn't want to be sworn into office by the Supreme Court chief justice in Washington but preferred to go to Texas instead," fumed Pak C. Law, 67, a Six Companies board member who was one of those who sued unsuccessfully to keep Kwan from office unless he abided by the old rules.

"Time moves on," said Kwan, a 64-year-old UC Berkeley-educated engineer who is one of the main instigators of the political shift. Along with fellow Chinatown leader Daniel Hom, Kwan urged the San Francisco cultural institutions to show their support by flying the mainland flag.

By Kwan's estimate, well over half of the important groups in San Francisco now are on the side of the mainland.

Like most of the older Chinese families here, Kwan hails from the Cantonese-speaking Pearl River delta surrounding modern-day Guangzhou. To him and others, the long association with the Taiwanese nationalists no longer makes as much sense as it did when China was a repressive, closed society.

China, Kwan says, has changed. With a booming economy, it no longer practices orthodox communism. "The government is communist, but only in name," Kwan said.

But Taiwan has changed too, and that might be even more important to the political shift here.

In 2000, nearly half a century of Nationalist Party rule in Taiwan ended with its defeat in presidential elections by the pro-Taiwan independence Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) headed by President Chen Shui-bian.

Instead of aggressively courting the overseas Chinese population as the Nationalists had before, the DPP concentrated on building a separate Taiwanese identity.

The island government continued to maintain its large Taipei Economic and Cultural Office here, staffed mostly by former Nationalist Party veterans such as Paul Chang.

But the emphasis of the new government had changed.

Almost immediately after taking office, Chen appointed fervent Taiwanese independence supporter Chang Fu-mei as his minister for overseas Chinese affairs.

Chang, a former research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution, quickly alienated overseas Chinese leaders by saying that older immigrants from the mainland, such as the majority in San Francisco, were not as important to her policies as overseas Taiwanese were.

Although she later offered an apology to the Chinese Six Companies, whose leaders took offense, the damage had been done.

"The Chen Shui-bian elections," Chinatown community leader Rose Pak said, "were a deadly blow to the loyalty of overseas Chinese for Taiwan. Before that election, what had galvanized [people] here was the idea of the reunification of Taiwan with China. Then Chen and these people began saying that Taiwanese are not Chinese."

Other, more subtle, changes began to surface in the community. Several Chinese-language schools stopped using the old Nationalist textbooks that continued to refer to the Chinese communists as "bandits." Courses were taught with the simplified Chinese characters used on the mainland.

The Chinese consul general and his staff of four overseas Chinese specialists started receiving invitations to benevolent society functions.

The last institutions to convert, Chinatown historian Him Mark Lai said, were the old benevolent associations such as Six Companies. Beginning in the mid-19th century, these regional and clan associations functioned as the Chinese immigrants' main protectors.

Skillfully courted over the years by the Nationalists, they were also one of the party's last strongholds.

After the powerful associations are won over, said Lai, it will represent one of the first serious breaks with the Nationalists since modern China's founding father Dr. Sun Yat-sen made this city one of his bases in the early 20th century.

Sun founded a newspaper here and recruited men from San Francisco's secret societies, or tongs, as foot soldiers in his revolutionary war against the ruling Manchus.

Even after the Nationalists fled to Taiwan following World War II, the party worked successfully for decades to maintain a political stronghold in San Francisco, the historic headquarters for nearly all of the important Chinese clan and ancestral cultural societies in the United States.

During the Korean War, ties with the Nationalists became even stronger as the community took a strong anti-communist position to distance itself from China's Red Army soldiers who were fighting against American troops.

Prominent members of the Chinatown community were regularly flown to Taiwan and entertained lavishly by the Nationalist government.

Borrowing a page from the Nationalists, the mainland government has become much more sophisticated and aggressive in its dealings with overseas populations.

The Beijing government launched a program to attract overseas Chinese for visits. Many cities in China opened hotels and other facilities to welcome the foreign visitors. Because the overwhelming majority of Chinese in San Francisco have ancestral villages on the mainland, this gives Beijing a huge advantage.

"We are here to provide assistance when they want to visit China," said Chinese consulate diplomat Tong Xuejun. Tong, like his other colleagues in the consulate's overseas office, has learned to speak in the same Cantonese dialect used by most of the San Francisco community.

Rose Pak, the community activist who works as a consultant to the Chinese Chamber of Commerce, watches all this with a degree of wariness.

Pak and others here say the squabbling over international alliances distracts the population from more urgent needs here. As the many empty storefronts attest, San Francisco's Chinatown has suffered economically in recent years. Although Chinese Americans account for more than 20% of the city population, their influence over local politics is not as strong as it might be.

"Over the years, all of us held our noses and did not like what the KMT [Kuomintang] was doing here," Pak said. "But the new China is doing exactly the same thing. It is all a screwball comedy of errors that doesn't do a damn thing in advancing our community."
Los Angeles Times
(http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sfchina18jul18,1,2363946.story?coll=la-home-local)

Bayonet
07-18-2004, 09:14 AM
"China, Kwan says, has changed. With a booming economy, it no longer practices orthodox communism. "The government is communist, but only in name," Kwan said. "


I hope that foreign friends read it and update their views on today's China....

Rakki
07-18-2004, 09:33 AM
China doesn't practice orthodox communism any more - instead, it is merely a totalitarian capitalist society.

Congratulations. Now if you can just get rid of the Communist Party, put the warmongering generals of the PLA back in their place and focus on improving the lives of a billion Chinese instead of trying to become a Western Pacific superpower - then the Chinese might actually become respectable.

Romulus
07-18-2004, 09:37 AM
China doesn't practice orthodox communism any more - instead, it is merely a totalitarian capitalist society.

Congratulations. Now if you can just get rid of the Communist Party, put the warmongering generals of the PLA back in their place and focus on improving the lives of a billion Chinese instead of trying to become a Western Pacific superpower - then the Chinese might actually become respectable.

Well said.

Bayonet
07-18-2004, 09:51 AM
China doesn't practice orthodox communism any more - instead, it is merely a totalitarian capitalist society.

the warmongering generals of the PLA back in their place and respectable.


I agree.,,,,we are doing like what you say....But about those generals, thay are soldiers, not farmers, Their job is to fight and defend China.

duck
07-18-2004, 11:20 AM
China doesn't practice orthodox communism any more - instead, it is merely a totalitarian capitalist society.

Congratulations. Now if you can just get rid of the Communist Party, put the warmongering generals of the PLA back in their place and focus on improving the lives of a billion Chinese instead of trying to become a Western Pacific superpower - then the Chinese might actually become respectable.

You are implying that China is not a respectable member of the international community? How amusing. Many kids of the "warmongering" generals are studying in the US and Europe, btw. Sometimes their studies are financed by American corporate sponsorship, isn't that convenient?

alscho
07-18-2004, 11:39 AM
China doesn't practice orthodox communism any more - instead, it is merely a totalitarian capitalist society.

Congratulations. Now if you can just get rid of the Communist Party, put the warmongering generals of the PLA back in their place and focus on improving the lives of a billion Chinese instead of trying to become a Western Pacific superpower - then the Chinese might actually become respectable.

Well said.

No offense, but that strike me as an ill-said, with little to no research statement. You don't understand the past, nor the present environment, of China, Tawain or South-East Asia regional affairs. You failed to understand that the CCP totalitarian as they are, were improving the lifes of the Chinese population. You failed to realize that the health, wealth and literate rate etc in China has increased marginally since post-ww2 era. The rise of communism in China allowed peasants... to rise above their traditional feudal positions. They can learned to write, they can rise and help themselves improve their lives. They nolonger need to live under the shadow of the Imperialistic powers that ripped the country apart. They nolonger need to worry about hte future of their children.. as war torned China for the past 1/2 century.... It has improved under Mao, and it has improved again with Deng's free market economy and again with the last two leaders' yearly 7%-10% GDP growth. Of course there were times of disgusting and oppressive behaviors, such as the Cultural Revolution and of course, 6-4 Tinanmen Square massacre. These ARE very important historical events but certainly if you go to China now, you will be completely stunned.

You will not see everyone dressed the same grey worker uniform, you will not see everyone in bicycles, you will not see commual factory units, you will not see collective farming. You WILL see, porshe, BMW, mercede all over the metropolis of China. You WILL see skyscrapers, efficent highway system, daily flights from all over the world, you will see entrepreurs, individually owned factories, growing banking and IT services. You will see people in suits, talking on their cell phones, talking to clients from all over the world, COMPETING in the most capitalist fashion possible. You see political, and economic reforms by the People's Congress, you will have village, town and event county level elections, which regularly throw out any CCP appointed 'communists'. It is perhaps the most populus capitalialist society on Earth.

Of course out of all these, you will see government regulations.. as you will see in USA, the so call capitalist have tariff wars, laws limiting the ownership of foreigners to 'strategic' US industries. Those includes certain companies in the shoe industry, claiming they will need someone to make shoes in war time..

So yes, the CCP. the COMMUNISTS as you call them, infact did improve the lifes of the people. Their standard of living is increasing. The number of middle class is rising. What more do you want from a developing country??

---
One more thing, the generals don't control China, the people do. They are not your classic South America cold-war era, dictators who control the president and repeated coup attempts... They rather get rich than get themselves involved with politics. Of course, politicans would want to have the good will of the military, as most society do, but they don't make the calls. The military is loyal to the party, not the other way around. If you know anything about the history of tinanmen square massare, it was the party that ordered the troops into Beijing. Actually the party deem the military as so unreliable at that time, that they send in whatever units they have possible, so none of them will have a dominating effect. Ie artillary units and firefighting units along with normal police/infantries.. In truth, several units did join the students' demonstration.. as well as refused and hestitated to shoot at their fellow man. So no. The party controls the military, thas why they can still be in power.

So please... no offense intended at all.. sorry if this sound rude but please don't sterotype people, events.. and a nation from what you were taught. I don't blame anyone, cause we can never learn everything in the world but :) don't make absolute statements with nothing to back them.

cheers.

alscho
07-18-2004, 11:59 AM
I forgot to add this. China is not a warmonger society. China hasnt invaded or commited as much ethic cleansing as the west did thru out its thousands of years of history..

India-China war.. it was over a border drawn by a British man who was trying to flee India in a hurry. It has no international recognition aside from India and Britain at that time..

Tibet.. You ought to know the story, its both sided.. I'll say its always been part of China, you will probably say otherwise.

Vietnam border conflict. We withdrew after teaching them their lesson.. You should be happy, coz Vietnam was a Soviet-Russia proxy.

Russian border conflict. There were occasions over an undefined border. Thas why USA allied with China during that specific time period against Russia.

Mongolia, which we havent touched yet, was cut away from China cause Stalin wanted a puppet state and limit the power of China. We have no plans of touching it even when it was taken from us with these 'unfair' treaties and pressure when China was weak..

Korean War.. How would you like to have another Superpower's proxy state at your border? How would you like Soviet Russia to carve a bit out of mexico... claimed a local Communist revolution then put Russians there to 'protect' the population? If you don't like it, don't expect us to like it ourselves.

Tawain.. No question. KMT retreated there, hoped one day they will return to the mainland. O they massarced alot of the natives few years before their retreat in prepartion for the inevitable. Tawain, officially known as the Republic of China... China... now where's that? Their old consitution even claimed Mongolia to be a legitmate part of their territory.. People's Republic of China gave that up ages ago..

No we are not war mongers.
Shall we start on how many wars USA has been involved in, and far from their own border? Or those done in Europe's Imperialism era? Don't tell me cause 'they are communists and hence they should be shot'.. I can only tell you we are merely defending our 'national interests'.. sound familar? quite similar to what your presidents been telling your citizens for years...? no? ;) Don' tell me cause USA is the world's police.. It was agreed that Russia AND USA will be the world's police, hence the formation of UN.. Look what happened.. Cold War.. This is the exact attuide we don't need.. if we are ever to have peace.

The Chinese rulers of each dynasty are concerned over one thing, stability.

Cheers, and forgive my ignorance if there are any details I left out

PeoplesPoster
07-18-2004, 10:05 PM
gah doublepost

PeoplesPoster
07-18-2004, 10:05 PM
I forgot to add this. China is not a warmonger society. China hasnt invaded or commited as much ethic cleansing as the west did thru out its thousands of years of history..

India-China war.. it was over a border drawn by a British man who was trying to flee India in a hurry. It has no international recognition aside from India and Britain at that time..

Tibet.. You ought to know the story, its both sided.. I'll say its always been part of China, you will probably say otherwise.

Vietnam border conflict. We withdrew after teaching them their lesson.. You should be happy, coz Vietnam was a Soviet-Russia proxy.

Russian border conflict. There were occasions over an undefined border. Thas why USA allied with China during that specific time period against Russia.

Mongolia, which we havent touched yet, was cut away from China cause Stalin wanted a puppet state and limit the power of China. We have no plans of touching it even when it was taken from us with these 'unfair' treaties and pressure when China was weak..

Korean War.. How would you like to have another Superpower's proxy state at your border? How would you like Soviet Russia to carve a bit out of mexico... claimed a local Communist revolution then put Russians there to 'protect' the population? If you don't like it, don't expect us to like it ourselves.

Tawain.. No question. KMT retreated there, hoped one day they will return to the mainland. O they massarced alot of the natives few years before their retreat in prepartion for the inevitable. Tawain, officially known as the Republic of China... China... now where's that? Their old consitution even claimed Mongolia to be a legitmate part of their territory.. People's Republic of China gave that up ages ago..

No we are not war mongers.
Shall we start on how many wars USA has been involved in, and far from their own border? Or those done in Europe's Imperialism era? Don't tell me cause 'they are communists and hence they should be shot'.. I can only tell you we are merely defending our 'national interests'.. sound familar? quite similar to what your presidents been telling your citizens for years...? no? ;) Don' tell me cause USA is the world's police.. It was agreed that Russia AND USA will be the world's police, hence the formation of UN.. Look what happened.. Cold War.. This is the exact attuide we don't need.. if we are ever to have peace.

The Chinese rulers of each dynasty are concerned over one thing, stability.

Cheers, and forgive my ignorance if there are any details I left out

Well said. ;)

J-10
07-18-2004, 10:07 PM
Hi, alscho, wonderful view.

Kilgor
07-18-2004, 10:29 PM
In case you guys have short memories...

It wasnt so long ago they ran over students with tanks, machine gunned scores of others, and burned their corpses with flame throwers.

:roll:

moughoun
07-19-2004, 04:06 AM
In case you guys have short memories...

It wasnt so long ago they ran over students with tanks, machine gunned scores of others, and burned their corpses with flame throwers.

:roll:

Shesss, that's a secret ;)

alscho
07-19-2004, 06:34 AM
In case you guys have short memories...

It wasnt so long ago they ran over students with tanks, machine gunned scores of others, and burned their corpses with flame throwers.

:roll:

Shesss, that's a secret ;)

If u read carefully, I mentioned that incident as 'disgusting' and 'oppressive behavior'. Its a tragedy.. Of course I can come up with loads of reasons for it but if you don't want to read it, skip to the next section.

Actually, I wrote a paper which partially covered this event. Deng begun the process of liberalization and capitalisation near the end of 1970s.. That included allowing university student unions and other intellects to print and distribute liberal newspaper, condemning the government on corruption, totalitarian behavior, slow pace in the work of raising the workers' standards of living, the lack of democracy .. anything you name it. It was done in most major cities. There was also the Democracy Wall where crowds of thousands regularly gather to discuss democracy. It was completely legit n democracy was slowly taking form.. It lasted up till 1989 when the crackdown occured. The government wanted a stable slow 'evolution' towards democracy. Demonstration got out of hand, decided to crack down...

THE STUDENTS DID NOT DIE IN VAIN. The government conceded to most of their demands.. all except the immediate democratisation of China. Nowadays, there are maverick newspaper still printing and discussing the same stuff as the students of 1989 did.. Mainstream newspapers now regularly print stories on people who fought corrupted officials, how certain 'heros' refused the orders of the totalarian party.. Thats liberalisation to me.

---
The massarce was a terrible thing, the government could have handled it better, but.. without it China might have slipped back into anarchy.. merely a decade since the Red Guards terrorised everyone.. Those Red Guards were too intellects of the same age as the students of the tinamen square..

Of course, not saying that what happened wasn't wrong, I just never hear you people complain about the human rights record of say.. Saudi Arabia. O right.. sorry they are allies of the west. Hence untouchable. My bad ;) Or Nepal's terrible human conditions where government milita regularly tortures 'suspected' maoist-rebels... A country those 50% of the population earns less than $US1 a month, and only 1/3 of the country's literated.

Or perhaps some certain deeds of a FEW veterans of Vietnam, Haiti, Somalia, Guatemala.. list goes on. Hard for me to say, but hey, at least we didn't invade someone and forcibly removed their governments and massarced the 'commies' and tortured them for things they did not do.

But if you are just going to judge a nation on the orders of a few individuals.. well I have little to say.

cheers,