Protestors burn three churches in Malaysia

[hulaku]

KUALA LUMPUR: Three Malaysian churches have been targeted with firebombs, leaving one badly damaged, in an escalating dispute over the use of the word “Allah” by non-Muslims.

As Muslim groups prepared to hold nationwide protests Friday, police stepped up security around churches after one in suburban Kuala Lumpur was set ablaze in a midnight attack that gutted its ground floor.
Molotov cocktails were thrown into the compounds of two other churches but did not cause serious damage.

Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein appealed for calm amid the conflict over the use of “Allah” as a translation for “God” by Christians, and moved to assure minorities in Malay-dominated Malaysia that “they are safe”.

“I take the events that happened last night very seriously,” he told a press conference. “We want to assure the public that this was not a coordinated and well-planned action.”

“Let’s hope for the best in a few hours’ time,” he said of the protests planned for after Friday prayers, centred on the national mosque in the capital.

Police chief Musa Hassan said officers had been deployed to protect churches around the country and to monitor protests at mosques, following the attacks and phone threats against churches.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/07-protestors-burn-three-churches-in-malaysia-ha-02

[nasiru]

nice misleading title there :roll:, not surprising coming from you though .More information here for those interested .

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/1/8/nation/20100108105729&sec=nation

[hulaku]

nice misleading title there :roll:, not surprising coming from you though .More information here for those interested .

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/1/8/nation/20100108105729&sec=nation

What?

That is the title for the story from the source which is from a leading Pakistani (not Indian) newspaper.

If you have a problem please go to their site and complain.

Dont shoot the messenger man.

[Eokboy]

Terrorist group secretly led by Anwar Ibrahim is claiming responsibility over the attacks. He wants to make Malaysia look bad so he could gain power.

[ggk]

i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.

[Laworkerbee]

i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.

Actually, someone gave helped this mess along quite nicely by pointing out and yelling about the alleged dumb things this priest has done.

The inroads and cultural influence the Arabs have made in Malaysia is very troubling to me.

[Euroamerican]

i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.

(/sarcasm /on) Right..... And the Muslim majority in that neck of the woods has been ever so pleasant to the other religious groups up til now... /off

From the BBC:
.....protesters at mosques in Kuala Lumpur carried placards reading "Allah is only for us" and "Heresy arises from words wrongly used".
"I hope the court will understand the feeling of the majority Muslims of Malaysia," said Ahmad Johari, at the National Mosque.
"We can fight to the death over this issue," he told Associated Press news agency.

something is wrong with people who thing that only they can utter a certain word and that they can kill those "not of the faith" who do also want to use that word...

Yahweh... There, I said it.

[Octavariable]

Yahweh... There, I said it.

Thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god in vain
:roll:

[Laworkerbee]

Thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god in vain
:roll:

"God" always capitalized you bacon eating infidel.

[Octavariable]

"God" always capitalized you bacon eating infidel.

Do geese see God?

God! a red nugget! a fat egg under a dog.

[nasiru]

From the BBC:
.....protesters at mosques in Kuala Lumpur carried placards reading "Allah is only for us" and "Heresy arises from words wrongly used".
"I hope the court will understand the feeling of the majority Muslims of Malaysia," said Ahmad Johari, at the National Mosque.
"We can fight to the death over this issue," he told Associated Press news agency.

Well,the protest go on about 10-30 minutes in the mosques compound , people saying what they want and then go on with their daily life which means getting ready to work after the friday prayer . You should see other protests (read:violent protests) that destroyed public property and all the goodness that comes in those other protests in malaysia as a comparison .

About the "fight to the death" , malays usually use poetic-like words when voicing their dislike not that they will do it literally,well if they would then they will have problems with the government, and the government here dont like much people like that :bash:

[ggk]

This might a non issue in the west but ..last time some retard do this kind of stuff in malaysia ...hundreds of people end up dead.

if you have to chose and this is common sense.

A) use the word Allah in the bible and islamic caligraphy at the cover = people pissed and hack each other heads

or

b) did not use the word Allah (like the way it is for 600 years in malaysia, what a retard)= no body pissed and no one died.

its rather tough...but i choose 'b' simply because its work last time and no trouble and no one not even the christian were pissed.

[SoSo]

I don't understand. Don't Arabic-speaking Christians also call God "Allah"? That's not in Malaysia, though.

[MaNiC]

You just can't win with these idiots.

Say "Allah" when referring to God and they'll burn your church down cause they apparently have it as a registered trademark.

But say "God" when referring to Allah and they'll behead you for insulting their religion and being a good for nothing dirty infidel.

[ggk]

I don't understand. Don't Arabic-speaking Christians also call God "Allah"? That's not in Malaysia, though.

no one speak arabic in malaysia....

[ggk]

But say "God" when referring to Allah and they'll behead you for insulting their religion and being a good for nothing dirty infidel.

no we are not pffft

[speckfire]

I don't understand. Don't Arabic-speaking Christians also call God "Allah"? That's not in Malaysia, though.

Yes they do. Allah means God in Arabic. I guess Arab Christians cannot prey now as per non Arab Malaysians.

[nasiru]

that why a lot of people thinking its weird/out of place when a church want to translate what you guys call God as Allah for malaysian christian when you could use Tuhan which means God in malay,which most of the people know the term.

[speckfire]

that why a lot of people thinking its weird/out of place when a church want to translate what you guys call God as Allah for malaysian christian when you could use Tuhan which means God in malay,which most of the people know the term.

Who said that Allah is an Islamic word? It's an Arabic word and there were all kinds of Arabs before Islam.

[nasiru]

Yes its true , i know that because there are thread about the court case here on mp.net.Well at least they gonna make some decision soon , no one wanna have people that going to take advantage in this kind of situation

[Octavariable]

The problem is with the over-the-top reaction and bad reputation Muslims are creating for themselves, be it in Egypt, Malaysia, England or France.

Peaceful and tolerant religion? prove it! :bash:

[nasiru]

It have been proved by a lot but that kind of muslims dont get enough publicity .Too bad. I don't think the reaction in Malaysia is over-the-top as there are only 4 protest in the whole country and all the protests don't do anything much except they got their voice out by gathering for 30 minutes after the friday prayer .

[Victor1]

Terrorist group secretly led by Anwar Ibrahim is claiming responsibility over the attacks.

Secretly? rofl

[Clockwinder]

No one knows what sets The Bumi's off. In the mid 70's it was pork sold in the markets. In the early 80s it was Tamil temple bells. Tomorrow it'll be Volvos or something else equally insane.

[Ulytau]

I don't understand. Don't Arabic-speaking Christians also call God "Allah"? That's not in Malaysia, though.

In Turkiye as i see from Turkish Jews and Christians they calling ''Allah'' too,universal more than Arabic even it will be about which society they lives.

[Laworkerbee]

I often hear Westerners using words like "Imshi" "Yulla" "Insh'Allah" etc, it's only natural that we incorporate these meaningful words into our vocabulary over time.

[pg_ord]

We use "Allah" in romantic songs of bollywood, I wonder how these idiots would react. :|

[Ulytau]

I often hear Westerners using words like "Imshi" "Yulla" "Insh'Allah" etc, it's only natural that we incorporate these meaningful words into our vocabulary over time.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6748/sontur07.jpg

call sign of some American pilots who serving in Turkiye,story behind this at bad weathers in Adana when someone ask to American pilots can we turn back to air base safely and their answer were Insallah to passengers :D

[IraGlacialis]

Yes they do. Allah means God in Arabic. I guess Arab Christians cannot prey now as per non Arab Malaysians.
As ggk mentioned, these are Malays, not Arabs, and thus don't speak Arabic. Therefore, the Malay Christians would not really be saying Allah in the first place because that is not part of their language.
It is another case with Copts and Oriental Orthodox folk because they are in Arabic-speaking lands.

Yes, there is not excuse for these mobs that go around trashing cities, but there is a high likelihood that the priest just did it to stir some **** (at the same token, the fact that the mob took the bait is troubling as well).

[nasiru]

These "idiots" will do nothing as they only want the term "Allah" for muslim only in malaysia not everywhere lol ..

[Laworkerbee]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6748/sontur07.jpg

call sign of some American pilots who serving in Turkiye,story behind this at bad weathers in Adana when someone ask to American pilots can we turn back to air base safely and their answer were Insallah to passengers :D

Hahahaha! That is awesome!

Thanks pal.

[grendel]

Jews, Christians and Muslims all pray to the same God. So what's the big fuss?

[speckfire]

As ggk mentioned, these are Malays, not Arabs, and thus don't speak Arabic. Therefore, the Malay Christians would not really be saying Allah in the first place because that is not part of their language.
It is another case with Copts and Oriental Orthodox folk because they are in Arabic-speaking lands.

Yes, there is not excuse for these mobs that go around trashing cities, but there is a high likelihood that the priest just did it to stir some **** (at the same token, the fact that the mob took the bait is troubling as well).

Exactly...Even the Malay moslems are not Arabs so they don't talk Arabic but pray in Arabic and have no idea What Arabic is much less 7th century Shakespearean Arabic which the Koran is written in. Then they dare insinuate that the word Allah can only be used by them in the country? Give me a break.

[speckfire]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6748/sontur07.jpg

call sign of some American pilots who serving in Turkiye,story behind this at bad weathers in Adana when someone ask to American pilots can we turn back to air base safely and their answer were Insallah to passengers :D

Hahaha God willing Airlines....hmm I feel very safe suddenly.

[TheMiddlePath]

Jews, Christians and Muslims all pray to the same God. So what's the big fuss?


There is only but one heaven.

The thousands of thousands religions worldwide are all created by man just to find the meaning of life and the secret of happiness.

[TheMiddlePath]

[B]
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/07-protestors-burn-three-churches-in-malaysia-ha-02


All it takes is a couple of trouble maker from both sides, one single word and lots of irresponsible money making media and coverage to ........


That's all it takes.

[G-AWZT]

To the church burners,.......................shooting yourselves in the foot is actually retroactive.

[Eokboy]

(/sarcasm /on) Right..... And the Muslim majority in that neck of the woods has been ever so pleasant to the other religious groups up til now... /off

Peace here means submitting to the will of the majority. There are no two ways about it.




b) did not use the word Allah (like the way it is for 600 years in malaysia, what a retard)= no body pissed and no one died.

its rather tough...but i choose 'b' simply because its work last time and no trouble and no one not even the christian were pissed.
Actually, the Sabahans/Sarawakians have been using Allah since forever. IINM it is KDN who started banning them from using it only recently.

But, I support the ban. We don't want muslims getting confused and stuff. Malaysia is a muslim country, we own their ass anyway.

Like here in Minnesota, there is a TV channel for somali muslims to talk about Islam. It is certainly bewildering that FCC would allow such a channel. I would rage if there is a christian/hindu/buddha TV show in Malaysia.

RAGE!

Sarang tebuan jangan dijolok - Don't poke the hornet's nest.

[grendel]

... But, I support the ban. We don't want muslims getting confused and stuff. Malaysia is a muslim country, we own their ass anyway.

Like here in Minnesota, there is a TV channel for somali muslims to talk about Islam. It is certainly bewildering that FCC would allow such a channel. I would rage if there is a christian/hindu/buddha TV show in Malaysia.

RAGE!

Sarang tebuan jangan dijolok - Don't poke the hornet's nest.

So why are you living in the US then? Go live in Saudi Arabia, Osama!

[hulaku]

I would rage if there is a christian/hindu/buddha TV show in Malaysia.

RAGE!


I hope you are not serious rage boy!

[Eokboy]

So why are you living in the US then? Go live in Saudi Arabia, Osama!
Learning to live as a minority so I could better understand their plight. But due to overwhelming white guilt, minorities in America are way too pampered. I'm not getting the full experience of discrimination. This is seriously challenging my feudal malay ideals of putting the interests of the majority above the minority to instill peace and harmony.

I'm sorry ggk and nasiru, my spirit of Malay Supremacy has been corrupted by western thought. Sigh...

[nasiru]

I'm not getting the full experience of discrimination
anyone from mp.net nearby eokboy ? p-)


I'm sorry ggk and nasiru, my spirit of Malay Supremacy has been corrupted by western thought. Sigh...
It's ok, you gonna get it back real fast when you return haha :)

[grendel]

You write about Malay supremacy, the minority submitting to the will of the majority and that you're in the US to experience discrimination (but you're not experiencing that there), well, it'sthe 21st century and civilised countries no longer do that. Isn't Malaysia supposed to be multicultural like the US, where everyone gets equal rights?

[Frutzel]

Certainly. I can't wait to reclaim my place as a bumiputera and all the privileges that go along with it. Living in the USA where everybody is equal makes me feel so ordinary and vulnerable. I tell my friends and family back in Malaysia how lucky they are as malays to have a government that puts their welfare above the rest.

Hopefully this latest incident perpetrated by the Zionist-backed opposition parties leave nary a scratch on the good name of our government and nation.

Long live Malay Supremacy!

This is the stupidest thing I have read today. I actually feel dumber now after reading that. Are you serious?

[deli_dumrul]

I was wondering the same thing... Then I searched online and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketuanan_Melayu. He sounds like he is serious...

When I first started reading this thread, i had the same question as some of the previous posters: is this another manifestation of Arab influence? Apparently, it is not a recent phenomenon - at least for Malaysia. To me, it seems like just another opportunity to pursue political goals - Malaysian Supremacy - using what has been used countless time before: religion...

[LineDoggie]

Hahahaha! That is awesome!

Thanks pal.
Our Secular version for Military Airlift Command back in the day was "Maybe Aircraft Come"

But Jeebus, this is really retarded burning down Churches and fighting each other over whether a Muslim Malay can go nuts over Christian Malay calling God by the Arabic word for God.

[Eokboy]

You write about Malay supremacy, the minority submitting to the will of the majority and that you're in the US to experience discrimination (but you're not experiencing that there), well, it'sthe 21st century and civilised countries no longer do that. Isn't Malaysia supposed to be multicultural like the US, where everyone gets equal rights?
Yea but us malays are the first to establish a civilization in Malaysia, therefore we deserve preferential treatment.

Equality? A western concept for westerners, and in no way feasible for a unique society Malaysia has. To each his own.

[grendel]

So Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indians are second class citizens? And what about Malaysian Christians, they're still Malays.

[Eokboy]

So Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indians are second class citizens? And what about Malaysian Christians, they're still Malays.
No, they're mostly chinese and indians too. All malays are muslims, says so in the constitution.

Each and every one.

[asch]

middle ages = bad
21th century = at least actual.

[Eokboy]

dear Malaysian muslims.


[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Please delete your post or I will report it to the mods.

[asch]

Please delete your post or I will report it to the mods.
oh ok i was little intolerant, sure. but there is two things tat really make me behave so. first one is a stupidity of whole situation. burning churches is soo 14th century. second one is a state legalized nazism. something i will never learn to accept.

[Eokboy]

oh ok i was little intolerant, sure. but there is two things tat really make me behave so. first one is a stupidity of whole situation. burning churches is soo 14th century. second one is a state legalized nazism. something i will never learn to accept.
1. I agree that destroying any places of worship is stupid. As much as we are displeased over the court ruling, none of us would resort to such extremism. The people who burned those churches are from the militant wing of the PR opposition party led by Anwar Ibrahim to inflict chaos and unrest in Malaysia. I hope our government and security forces put a stop to their malicious shenanigans.

2. Who's a nazi?

[grendel]

No, they're mostly chinese and indians too. All malays are muslims, says so in the constitution.

Each and every one.

I meant do you agree that Malaysian Chinese and Indians as well as Malaysian Christians be given equal rights as Malaysian Muslims?

The majority of Filipinos (who are also Malays) are Christians but they still regard the minority Muslims in the south as fellow Filipinos.

Also, it's the first time that I've heard Anwar Ibrahim's supporters being responsible for the church burnings. Do you have proof of this? What I've read in the past is that the original accusation against Anwar was made up by those in government.

[Eokboy]

No. Malays are being discriminated against in the private sector, so it is only fair that the government helps us out to level the playing field.

Regarding the church bombings, I have no proof to offer at the moment, but I'm sure of it. Though, even if it is established as fact, Anwar Ibrahim to the alternative/western media is like Obama to left wing outlets. You won't hear about it, but Malaysians suffer the consequences of his actions. They do.

[ggk]

oh its started.... someone started throwing **** and rock at mosque now....FACE PALM....that ****ning Catholic priest should be smacked hard in the face. We malaysian live peacefully all this time where it is already acceptable The christian use the word GOD and the muslim use the word ALLAH...then he came and .....there you go...only take one 'aww****' to destroy the 10 'attaboy' we achives all these years.

[ggk]

So Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indians are second class citizens? And what about Malaysian Christians, they're still Malays.

no malaysian were treated as second class.... the wealth are distributed fairly (debatable) ...what the malays did are only trying to improve their own race economic and living standard thats all... the chinese still hold the economy pretty much without serious challenge.

The malays before and after independence are way backwards, but we own the land (literally..the peninsular states excluding the straits settlements are owned by the 9 Malays Kings..the can back away from malaysia federation if they chose, too petty scary fact) ..so we ask the chinese to lend a hand and coexist.

[S.P]

oh its started.... someone started throwing **** and rock at mosque now....FACE PALM....that ****ning Catholic priest should be smacked hard in the face. We malaysian live peacefully all this time where it is already acceptable The christian use the word GOD and the muslim use the word ALLAH...then he came and .....there you go...only take one 'aww****' to destroy the 10 'attaboy' we achives all these years.

i agree and what i find more pissing off is people calling islam middle ages, hello were taking about the 7th century, nothing near middle ages, besides the great european Renaissance was started by muslim al andalus (modern spain).

arabic is the language of the quran & the coptic church, no problem in that but for say the vatican to suddenly do everything in arabic it will be an outrage, naturally.

in the case of the priest, his aims were quite stupid as it would only be an aesthetic change, no need for that, all it has done is disturb the peace. last i checked when i was in malaysia christians practiced their faith in malay right? thats been working for all these years, why suddenly want reform.

and reagarding the world allah, ilah means god, allah is distinctly god in islam. im not saying the islamic god, but thats what muslims call god, along with the other 99 names.

coptics and arab christians say allah, but theres a great reason, due to the geographical setting huge influence in terms of talking style has been passed over, one can even put that to non-muslim iranians who might say inshallah.

[TheMiddlePath]

To the church burners,.......................shooting yourselves in the foot is actually retroactive.

Much as I despise these extremist church burners, these Christains proselytizers should take some of the responsibility too.

I never have any problems with my muslin friends. They never talk about religon when we get together. But not my Christains friends or relatives. They NEVER stop trying to convert me and my children. For years and years and years they keep passing to my kids children story books about Jesus. SO SO VERY ANNOYING.

I just smile and put these books away. Its is now quite a big pile.

Perhaps there are some Malaysian Christains out there who can help enlighten me why they proselytise so aggressively. Is it so they get a better chance to go to heaven ? Based on how many they convert ?

[ggk]

Agence France-Presse and MSN News, Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:07:00 GMT
Four more churches targeted amid Allah row

Eight churches across the country have been fire-bombed or vandalised since Friday in an escalating row over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims as a translation for the Christian God.

Thousands of Malaysian Christians came out for weekly services Sunday despite new attacks in an arson campaign that has sent tensions soaring in the Muslim-majority nation.
Council of Churches secretary-general Hermen Shastri said Malaysia's Christians, who number 10 percent of a population of 27 million, were unbowed.

"I think that people's faith is greater than what's happening around so they continue to go to church and pray for themselves as well as for the nation," he told AFP.
Four churches and a Catholic convent school were targeted early Sunday, police said, adding no one was injured.

Molotov cocktails were thrown at the All Saints Church and the school in Taiping, in the northern state of Perak, and a bottle of kerosene was found in another church nearby before Sunday services.

In two other minor incidents, black paint was hurled onto the window of a Baptist church in the central state of Malacca while stones were thrown at the windows of the Good Shepherd Church in the eastern state of Sarawak, according to police.

Click on the thumbnails below for photos
Confirming the fresh attacks, Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said the security situation remained under control.
"The people need not worry and should not be influenced by reports on the Internet or the SMSes," the minister told state news agency Bernama, referring to inflammatory reports sent by telephone text message.

About 1,000 worshippers at the Catholic Church of the Assumption in Kuala Lumpur, one of four in the Malaysian capital targeted by arsonists, were briefed by parish priest Phillips Muthu on the attack on their building.

"I told them we don't want to blame any people, any quarter, any religion. We are peaceful and we are here to offer our prayer for the nation," he told reporters at the church, where a fire bomb damaged part of the grounds.

"Of course we are afraid after the incident, but life has to go on."
One worshipper who only wanted to be identified as Lee said reaction to the court ruling from sections of the Muslim community had been "quite shocking".
"But I think the majority of Malaysians are still peace-loving and we should have dialogue to resolve this," she said.

Malaysia's premier called for calm on Saturday.
The Good Shepherd Lutheran Church southwest of Kuala Lumpur was targeted with Molotov cocktails on Saturday, the day after the first of the churches was set ablaze in the capital's suburbs and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the compounds of two others.

The attacks come amid an escalating row over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims.
Islamic groups staged protests Friday in response to a court ruling last week giving a Catholic newspaper the right to use the word following a long-running dispute with the government over the issue.

In a visit to one of the damaged churches, Prime Minister Najib Razak on Saturday sought to quell tensions in the multicultural nation, dominated by Muslim Malays but home to a large number of ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities.

"Islam prohibits us from insulting or destroying any other religions, either in the physical form or in the form of their worship places," Najib said.
"All parties need to stay calm and should not act emotionally."

While visiting the Metro Tabernacle church, whose ground floor was badly damaged by the firebombing, he also announced an allocation of 500,000 ringgit (148,038 dollars) for the church to relocate.

"This is a sincere contribution from the government to maintain a harmonious society," he told reporters as he visited the building accompanied by senior cabinet ministers and police officials.

In a posting on his website late Friday he vowed the government would not tolerate any threat to racial harmony.
"An investigation into this matter has already been launched and those responsible will be brought to justice," he said.

National police chief Musa Hassan said tough security laws could be invoked against people spreading false information by text message about further attacks on churches.
"No arrests have been made so far and we don't know whether it was committed by Muslims or otherwise, we only know there are at least two motorcyclists, we don't know their nationality," he told AFP earlier on Saturday, before the fourth attack.

The arson assaults have drawn criticism from government and opposition politicians, while the Council of Churches of Malaysia condemned them as an "irresponsible act".
"We call on the government to do everything possible to ensure the safety of Christians to worship freely and firm action should be taken to apprehend these extremists," Hermen Shastri, the council's secretary-general told AFP.

[ggk]

January 10, 2010 00:08 AM
Brick Hurled At Taman Menara Maju Surau


SHAH ALAM, Jan 9 (Bernama) -- The glass sliding door of a surau at Taman Menara Maju, Kg Jawa, Klang near here was found broken at about 6am Saturday after a brick was hurled at the surau.

Besides the broken sliding door, there were also stains of liquid in the 13-year-old surau.

Klang OCPD, ACP Mohamad Mat Yusop, when contacted here, confirmed the incident but refuted the possibility that it was linked to the burning of several churches in Kuala Lumpur and Petaling Jaya yesterday.

Mohamad also said that the stain was not that of urine as had been claimed and said that further investigation was being carried out to determine what actually caused the stain.

"A local resident who was going to the surau for the 'Subuh' prayers told police that he saw a male suspect, who was not wearing a shirt, running toward a lane about 200 meters from the surau.

"Preliminary investigation revealed that there were several cans of hard drinks at the lane concerned and we believe the incident occurred because the man (suspect) was drunk," he said.

Mohamad said police also believed that the incident was not committed by outsiders based on the fact that the brick used to break the sliding door was similar to the ones found in the surau compound.

In this context, he appealed to the people not to link the incident with the burning of the churches and hoped that the people would remain calm.

-- BERNAMA

[MaNiC]

I don't see how you guys can imply that it's the fault of some stupid priest or church. Be it as it may that he might have used the word in an improper way, but can't you guys see what that says about a religion that can only reply in a violent way to such perceived "blasphemies"?

If Muslims are convinced that they are going to heaven because they live such a "righteous" life, why do they care so much about what other people are doing? Misusing a religious word should have no impact on this situation since the ones who are misusing it aren't Muslim to begin with. They're not getting into heaven anyway according to Islam so what the f*ck do these retards care so much about what non-believers (I use the word here to mean anybody who isn't a Muslim) do?

And why do they feel like they must hand out the punishment in the name of God (or Allah or whatever)? Doesn't that undermine God's power to begin with?

I just don't get it. All they (Muslim fanatics) do all day is read the Koran, so why don't they read the part that says that violence is not justified in these circumstances?

[ggk]

the peace are crumbling dow the **** hole this moron created...and he still can smile as if nothing happen.,...and look at that bible hes holding ...it is so insulting.
103769

[JamesW]

That Vicar, he looks like a real bastard. How dare hold a copy of the Bible.
I look forward to the day Malaysia has no Indians or Chinese to keep the wheels turning, and things can revert to an Indonesian level of decay, corruption and ignorance... not that you'd have to make much effort.

[Eokboy]

Some 130 Muslim non-governmental organizations (NGOs) have reportedly volunteered to help ensure the safety of Christian churches around the country. The Muslim chief executive of one local bank has donated 100,000 ringgit (US$$30,000) on behalf of his institution for church reconstruction. And the government plans to hold an inter-faith dialogue, after having shot down the idea in the past.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LA12Ae01.html
Sad to see the government and its supporters having to foot the bill for all the damage caused by the opposition parties.

[Eokboy]

the peace are crumbling dow the **** hole this moron created...and he still can smile as if nothing happen.,...and look at that bible hes holding ...it is so insulting.
103769
Is this guy still running around free? The government should put him in ISA.

[LineDoggie]

Yes , he should be arrested and Killed for daring to use the Arabic word for God in a Non Arabic speaking country.

[hughdotoh]

I don't get it. The equally Malay Christians in Indonesia use Allah in their services in Malay, yet their Muslim counterparts aren't uptight. And that's the most populous Muslim nation there.

Live and let live, as intelligent Muslims would say.

[ggk]

Yes , he should be arrested and Killed for daring to use the Arabic word for God in a Non Arabic speaking country.

he should be arrested for disturbing the delicate peace... malay, chinese, indian had enough violence from our past..and we dont need moron like him to disturb it simply because he can.

[ggk]

That Vicar, he looks like a real bastard. How dare hold a copy of the Bible.
I look forward to the day Malaysia has no Indians or Chinese to keep the wheels turning, and things can revert to an Indonesian level of decay, corruption and ignorance... not that you'd have to make much effort.

look closely at the bible..when you see it brick wiill be shat.

[IraGlacialis]

he should be arrested for disturbing the delicate peace... malay, chinese, indian had enough violence from our past..and we dont need moron like him to disturb it simply because he can.
The fact that you need to be so delicate says something about the country.
There are places as diverse (including Muslims) as Malaysia that don't have the ethnic stability of a crystal shop next to a munitions factory. As idiotic as the priest may be, those protesters need to take a good look at themselves before going around and burning structures of other religions.

[ggk]

im not siding the criminal who attack the church and the mosque..but this is the kind of issues where people with malice intent can manipulate for political gain...especially desperate people.

[glyph]

Yea but us malays are the first to establish a civilization in Malaysia, therefore we deserve preferential treatment.
Equality? A western concept for westerners, and in no way feasible for a unique society Malaysia has. To each his own.

on contrary, there is actual prove that Hidu civilizations have existed in Malay Peninsular.


1. I agree that destroying any places of worship is stupid. As much as we are displeased over the court ruling, none of us would resort to such extremism. The people who burned those churches are from the militant wing of the PR opposition party led by Anwar Ibrahim to inflict chaos and unrest in Malaysia. I hope our government and security forces put a stop to their malicious shenanigans.



he should be arrested for disturbing the delicate peace... malay, chinese, indian had enough violence from our past..and we dont need moron like him to disturb it simply because he can.
if he need to be arrested, most of the malaysian politicians need to be shot for playing racial cards.


i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.

it take two to tango,


Terrorist group secretly led by Anwar Ibrahim is claiming responsibility over the attacks. He wants to make Malaysia look bad so he could gain power.
well i'm dont agree with this. It could be done by any these groups
1. external party
2. ruling party
3. opposition party
4. fundamentalist
5. faction within ruling coliation


This might a non issue in the west but ..last time some retard do this kind of stuff in malaysia ...hundreds of people end up dead.
if you have to chose and this is common sense.
A) use the word Allah in the bible and islamic caligraphy at the cover = people pissed and hack each other heads
or
b) did not use the word Allah (like the way it is for 600 years in malaysia, what a retard)= no body pissed and no one died.
its rather tough...but i choose 'b' simply because its work last time and no trouble and no one not even the christian were pissed.


Peace here means submitting to the will of the majority. There are no two ways about it.
Actually, the Sabahans/Sarawakians have been using Allah since forever. IINM it is KDN who started banning them from using it only recently.
But, I support the ban. We don't want muslims getting confused and stuff. Malaysia is a muslim country, we own their ass anyway.
Like here in Minnesota, there is a TV channel for somali muslims to talk about Islam. It is certainly bewildering that FCC would allow such a channel. I would rage if there is a christian/hindu/buddha TV show in Malaysia.
RAGE!
Sarang tebuan jangan dijolok - Don't poke the hornet's nest.

East Malaysian have been using the word few hundreds year before, instead looking for a permanent solution the home ministry just ban the publication. Why couldn't the Home Ministry try to mitigate the backlash and consult with the religious groups for a better solution before issuing the ban. Instead of offering a better solutions, they just tell them you can't call your god with this words.

Its obvious its a provocation.

[ggk]

on contrary, there is actual prove that Hidu civilizations have existed in Malay Peninsular.

.

they are still malay though and they convert their empire from hindu and budhist to islam..... they are not Indian or tamil or whover from india..they are still malay.


if he need to be arrested, most of the malaysian politicians need to be shot for playing racial cards.

well i agree...especially that bespectacle old chinese lady polititian


it take two to tango,

it takes one to start the music



well i'm dont agree with this. It could be done by any these groups
1. external party
2. ruling party
3. opposition party
4. fundamentalist
5. faction within ruling coliation

there bold for you..... desperate people do desperate things


East Malaysian have been using the word few hundreds year before, instead looking for a permanent solution the home ministry just ban the publication. Why couldn't the Home Ministry try to mitigate the backlash and consult with the religious groups for a better solution before issuing the ban. Instead of offering a better solutions, they just tell them you can't call your god with this words.


they were not many muslim in East malaysia hundreds of years ago and the same can be said now.


Its obvious its a provocation

oh it is ...it is

[glyph]

well i agree...especially that bespectacle old chinese lady polititian
whether is chinese or malay, who ever that try to stirred up racial sentiment shouldn't be tolerate.


there bold for you..... desperate people do desperate things
how you know they are desperate? overall ground sentiment currently seem to favor oppositions and its ther any proof of this? As far as i know, so far no arrest have been made and the burning and vandalism case keep piling up while the govt seem to be sitting around doing nothing.

Shouldn't govt need to do something to counter this and assure the minorities?

[ggk]

whether is chinese or malay, who ever that try to stirred up racial sentiment shouldn't be tolerate.




i agree


how you know they are desperate? overall ground sentiment currently seem to favor oppositions and its ther any proof of this?

no its not and im not impliying the whole opposition party..only one particular man.


As far as i know, so far no arrest have been made and the burning and vandalism case keep piling up while the govt seem to be sitting around doing nothing.

the police already identified the culprit and are doing a man hunt for them as we speak..they will be arested.


Shouldn't govt need to do something to counter this and assure the minorities

yeah like arresting the priest

[glyph]

no its not and im not impliying the whole opposition party..only one particular man.yes it is, with the current economic situations and corruption level its not a wonder that opposition is gaining ground

agree with you anwar will do whatever to become PM. He is too impatient.

[ggk]

yes it is, with the current economic situations and corruption level its not a wonder that opposition is gaining ground

agree with you anwar will do whatever to become PM.

well i admit the curent government to some extent are corupted...but they are potraying them self to the people as admiting that mistake and in the process of fighting the corruption and in the process of correcting that mistake. Just look at the amount of corruption cases were unearth by them self (the rulling government) ...this is not from the effort of the opposition party.

The opposition party on the other hand ....were tainted by the very thing they accuse the government for...corruption and deceit from all level of party in the states their won during the PRU 12... which makes them a hypocrit...and no, overall the people doesnt swing at favour to the opposition.... in fact the pro government are waking up and started using the oposition party ractics and strategy against them.

[Revive]

But, I support the ban. We don't want muslims getting confused and stuff. Malaysia is a muslim country, we own their ass anyway.


dude, 1stly, Malaysia was and will never be a Muslim country. 2ndly, a Muslim should know his/her Qur'an well. And 3rd, ur Sabahans/Sarawakians example had just shown another event when Malaysia gov slap her the other baby to make the elder one happy. Finally, it is just sick to see Malaysian with higher education would had his logic on behalf of his religion, blaming the priest in stead of the terrorist. Shouting for Jihad every time when they felt offended, yea right, so civilized.

[silvarius2000]

As a Malaysian Chinese I find this thread depressing. Talks about Malay Supremacy and submission to the majority. There isnt even anything to discuss. Its just depressing.

Politics aside this isnt a time I'm proud to be Malaysian.

Saying to people " Good for you that you got your church burnt" " Shouldnt have done that!"

The problem isnt the burning if you ask me. Its how Malaysians look at the burning thats depressing. " They deserved it. They instigated that violent majority who preaches peace!" The same bunch of guys who scream " Mereka semua haiwan!" when a certain Middle East country is a subject to an invasion.

The double standard and the self delusion we all suffer here is just. ****ing Depressing. And no its not about Malays I'm talking about. Its not even just about Muslims. Its just. Malaysian.

This post is a rant. Not a discussion.

[nasiru]

i wrote quite a long post about my opinion in this matter but i deleted it :|, i dunno eokboy serious or full of sarcasm about some of his post . hehe..


Its how Malaysians look at the burning thats depressing. " They deserved it.
hey hey , a lot of people dont think like that.

[ggk]

it is sarcasm... but some malaysian just dont have that anymore...if you need proof ..just check all his post... especially his alleged house...HINT his custom user title. hehe

[sisqo]

Malaya & Borneo is two different countries. The muslims in Borneo have no problem with other faiths using the word Allah which is a language and predates Islam (other faiths in "Malaysia" Borneo have been using the word Allah even before the federation of Malaysia was founded on Sept 16 1963 and not AUG 31 1957.) Talk all you want to defend the government actions on trying to ban the word, is it the Malayan Muslims who started making it an issue. The fact that Mahathir can go on saying that the government do not have to respect or listen to the court of law just shows how much of a dictatorship "1Malaysia" really is. The Ultra - Nationalist government of Malaysia is showing its true colors.

P.S. Are Malayan Muslims so stupid and ignorant that they can get confused by the fact that some other faith uses a language to refer to their god?? You don't even have to be Malaysian to see how stupid that excuse is. I don't live in Malaysia proper, I live in one of Malaya's two colonies which is on the verge of mass rebellion. The federals are not giving us Borneons any more reasons to want to be "Malaysian". F*CK your intolerance and ultra nationalistic ideology.

Go look for your own proof, seeing how some of you UMNO/BN kissers are so blind towards their ultra nationalist ideology. Our Borneon culture is nothing like your Malayan hatred. 5% of the Borneon politicians that have been bought over do not represent the will of the Borneon people, remember that in your argument.

Rant over. Let the infractions come

[ggk]

Malaya & Borneo is two different countries. The muslims in Borneo have no problem with other faiths using the word Allah which is a language and predates Islam (other faiths in "Malaysia" Borneo have been using the word Allah even before the federation of Malaysia was founded on Sept 16 1963 and not AUG 31 1957.) Talk all you want to defend the government actions on trying to ban the word, is it the Malayan Muslims who started making it an issue. The fact that Mahathir can go on saying that the government do not have to respect or listen to the court of law just shows how much of a dictatorship "1Malaysia" really is. The Ultra - Nationalist government of Malaysia is showing its true colors.

P.S. Are Malayan Muslims so stupid and ignorant that they can get confused by the fact that some other faith uses a language to refer to their god?? You don't even have to be Malaysian to see how stupid that excuse is. I don't live in Malaysia proper, I live in one of Malaya's two colonies which is on the verge of mass rebellion. The federals are not giving us Borneons any more reasons to want to be "Malaysian". F*CK your intolerance and ultra nationalistic ideology.

Go look for your own proof, seeing how some of you UMNO/BN kissers are so blind towards their ultra nationalist ideology. Our Borneon culture is nothing like your Malayan hatred. 5% of the Borneon politicians that have been bought over do not represent the will of the Borneon people, remember that in your argument.

Rant over. Let the infractions come

oh so you think now you are 14 you think can rant using the F word huh?.. AUG 31 1957 is the independant day lah budak.... Sept 16 1963 is the federation day.... download that into you childish brain. Or better go and study hard at school, then when you finish go to the university...then when you finish you come back here.



The muslims in Borneo have no problem with other faiths using the word Allah which is a language and predates Islam

oh? since when Iban started calling their God Allah?

[junglejim]

You know if all of Malaysia just converted to Catholicism this wouldnt be such an issue. Discuss...

[ggk]

you need a huge invasion force to do that....

[junglejim]

*shakes fist in anger* but seriously I wouldnt wish the curse of the catholic church to my worst enemies.

[sisqo]

If sitting in front of your computer insinuating that I'm 14 makes you feel better about yourself and sleep better, go ahead. You've done nothing but proven to us all how much of a good job the Malayan propaganda machine have made the Malayan Malay race so ignorant and intolerant. 31st August 1957 was the independence day for the FEDERATION OF MALAYA which to my knowledge do not exist anymore, it was reformed into the federation of MALAYSIA with the inclusion of the independent countries of Singapore, Sarawak and North Borneo(Sabah) which by the way is so far off what Tunku Abdul Rahman had envision(Tun Hussein and Mahathir corrupted that ideal). Maybe you should go back to school huh?? If your kind can go around saying KETUANAN MELAYU, Cina Yahudi, Orang India patut bersyukur di Malaya, why can't you take your own medicine? Your Iban statement just shows how little you know about "Malaysia" and not Malaya.

Why preety up words with slogans like 1Malaysia when what your kind really mean is 1Melayu. Maybe you don't know this but the Malayan Malays (Not Bruneian Malays) are a minority in "Malaysia" Borneo, you want to mess up your own country go ahead. Don't drag the people of Borneo down with you. (Maybe if them Melayu grew brains in their heads instead of their @$$ this wouldn't be such an issue) rofl

[ggk]

If sitting in front of your computer insinuating that I'm 14 makes you feel better about yourself and sleep better, go ahead.

because you are fourteen this year, if your birthday still far thats mean you are still 13...


You've done nothing but proven to us all how much of a good job the Malayan propaganda machine have made the Malayan Malay race so ignorant and intolerant. 31st August 1957 was the independence day for the FEDERATION OF MALAYA which to my knowledge do not exist anymore, it was reformed into the federation of MALAYSIA with the inclusion of the independent countries of Singapore, Sarawak and North Borneo(Sabah) which by the way is so far off what Tunku Abdul Rahman had envision(Tun Hussein and Mahathir corrupted that ideal). Maybe you should go back to school huh?? If your kind can go around saying KETUANAN MELAYU, Cina Yahudi, Orang India patut bersyukur di Malaya, why can't you take your own medicine? Your Iban statement just shows how little you know about "Malaysia" and not Malaya.


so which part of Singapore, SABAH AND SARAWAK JOINING the federation (and let me emphasize JOINING) you didnt understand boy? ...so if lets say today Timbuktu want to join the Malaysia Federation..do we have to push forwads our independent days date to 2010? Thats so funny kid.


Why preety up words with slogans like 1Malaysia when what your kind really mean is 1Melayu.

1 malaysia really means one malaysia, you are racist.


Maybe you don't know this but the Malayan Malays (Not Bruneian Malays) are a minority in "Malaysia" Borneo, you want to mess up your own country go ahead. Don't drag the people of Borneo down with you. (Maybe if them Melayu grew brains in their heads instead of their @$$ this wouldn't be such an issue) rofl

confirmed, tiny racist school boy.. what do they teach to kids these day.

............guess what ? you are frakking lucky,...im going to debate with you about this stupid Independent day issue. (edit).

[sisqo]

Why don't you just finish it off by saying why don't we celebrate the Malayan Union as well or when the British came over and so forth and so forth, we joined under the INVITATION of Tunku Abdul Rahman and as equal entities.(none of us beg the Malayan Union to take us in) Go look at other countries with the term Federation in it, and you can see that Malaysia is a "Federation" only on paper. That's your Malayan problem, no respect for the rest of your so called federation partners (We're all just minion states doing Putrajaya's bidding). Look at how you said it. Like your kind is doing us all a favor by letting us "join" the almighty federation of Malaya:roll:, we wouldn't have if Malaya didn't ask us OH so nicely with empty promises. Singapore left after 2 years already knowing things ain't gonna go the way it was suppose to be, Sabah and Sarawak would have left not long after if Sabah's entire government ministry except for one person (the only one that supported the malay nationalist) wasn't perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash just as they were going to negotiate the terms of leaving and Sarawak's government wasn't toppled and replaced by an emergency ruled government by the federals. You may be learned about Malaya's history, but I'm learned about my OWN country's political history. Fact is we are two different countries and entities, 40 over years have gone by and you are still trying to impose your draconian, intolerant ideology upon us. Wake up!! I don't care if you have natiolistic pride for Malaya, your choice and your land. But don't sound like a tape recorder spewing government propaganda lines, excuses and mentality.

One more thing, ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH. You can't stop anyone from using any word, you and your beloved government get real.

[ggk]

Why don't you just finish it off by saying why don't we celebrate the Malayan Union as well or when the British came over and so forth and so forth, we joined under the INVITATION of Tunku Abdul Rahman and as equal entities.(none of us beg the Malayan Union to take us in) Go look at other countries with the term Federation in it, and you can see that Malaysia is a "Federation" only on paper. That's your Malayan problem, no respect for the rest of your so called federation partners (We're all just minion states doing Putrajaya's bidding). Look at how you said it. Like your kind is doing us all a favor by letting us "join" the almighty federation of Malaya:roll:, we wouldn't have if Malaya didn't ask us OH so nicely with empty promises. Singapore left after 2 years already knowing things ain't gonna go the way it was suppose to be, Sabah and Sarawak would have left not long after if Sabah's entire government ministry except for one person (the only one that supported the malay nationalist) wasn't perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash just as they were going to negotiate the terms of leaving and Sarawak's government wasn't toppled and replaced by an emergency ruled government by the federals. You may be learned about Malaya's history, but I'm learned about my OWN country's political history. Fact is we are two different countries and entities, 40 over years have gone by and you are still trying to impose your draconian, intolerant ideology upon us. Wake up!! I don't care if you have natiolistic pride for Malaya, your choice and your land. But don't sound like a tape recorder spewing government propaganda lines, excuses and mentality.

One more thing, ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH. You can't stop anyone from using any word, you and your beloved government get real.

kids
.....................

[ggk]

Why don't you just finish it off by saying why don't we celebrate the Malayan Union as well or when the British came over and so forth and so forth, we joined under the INVITATION of Tunku Abdul Rahman and as equal entities.(none of us beg the Malayan Union to take us in) .

really? please show me historical evidence that Tunku invite Sabah and Sarawak...


Go look at other countries with the term Federation in it, and you can see that Malaysia is a "Federation" only on paper.

as oppose to gold plated plaque?


That's your Malayan problem, no respect for the rest of your so called federation partners (We're all just minion states doing Putrajaya's bidding).

no it is not.... why i dont remember anyone being a slave over there...all my friends from the borneo are rich people surely if what you implies are right... they should be poor by now.


Look at how you said it. Like your kind is doing us all a favor by letting us "join" the almighty federation of Malaya:roll:, we wouldn't have if Malaya didn't ask us OH so nicely with empty promises.

The proposal for Malaysia was oppossed by the Philippines as they asserted a claim over Sabah... so what? you really eager want Sabah to join Philipines? (by the way you were not even born yet) We fought alongside with Sabahan a secrets war againts the philipines to protect Sabah. That is not empty promise that is TRUST.

A joint- Anglo-Malayan commission headed by a former of the bank of England, Lord Cobbold, visited sabah and Sarawakin 1962 and reported that the majority of the states favoured the formation of Malaysia.

However, continued Philippine and Indonesian opposition led to the sending of a United nations mission to Borneo in 1963, which also reported that the public opinion was in favour of joining Malaysia.

there you go.


Singapore left after 2 years already knowing things ain't gonna go the way it was suppose to be,

Unlike Sabah and Sarawak, singapore In 1955 was granted internal autonomy under the Rendel Constitution and David Marshall was appointed the first Chief Minister. Sabah and Sarawak dont... either you join the Federation or you get INVADED by either Indonesia or Philipines.


Sabah and Sarawak would have left not long after if Sabah's entire government ministry except for one person (the only one that supported the malay nationalist) wasn't perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash just as they were going to negotiate the terms of leaving and Sarawak's government wasn't toppled and replaced by an emergency ruled government by the federals.

ah hahaha Masyaallah... conspiracy theory at its peak.


You may be learned about Malaya's history, but I'm learned about my OWN country's political history.

looks like you will fail your PMR kid.


Fact is we are two different countries and entities,

Nope.


40 over years have gone by and you are still trying to impose your draconian, intolerant ideology upon us. Wake up!!

no we did not ..last time i check you guys have a different sets of election...Sabahans and Sarawakian decided their own fate...not the people of Semenanjung.


I don't care if you have natiolistic pride for Malaya, your choice and your land. But don't sound like a tape recorder spewing government propaganda lines, excuses and mentality.

ah when that happen kid? may i remind you not to spew around James Bond plot here too okay..."perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash " haha



One more thing, ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH. You can't stop anyone from using any word, you and your beloved government get real


you unknowingly just converted to islam Kid...call me to circumsized okay.

[ayanami_tard]

Why don't you just finish it off by saying why don't we celebrate the Malayan Union as well or when the British came over and so forth and so forth, we joined under the INVITATION of Tunku Abdul Rahman and as equal entities.(none of us beg the Malayan Union to take us in) Go look at other countries with the term Federation in it, and you can see that Malaysia is a "Federation" only on paper. That's your Malayan problem, no respect for the rest of your so called federation partners (We're all just minion states doing Putrajaya's bidding). Look at how you said it. Like your kind is doing us all a favor by letting us "join" the almighty federation of Malaya:roll:, we wouldn't have if Malaya didn't ask us OH so nicely with empty promises. Singapore left after 2 years already knowing things ain't gonna go the way it was suppose to be, Sabah and Sarawak would have left not long after if Sabah's entire government ministry except for one person (the only one that supported the malay nationalist) wasn't perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash just as they were going to negotiate the terms of leaving and Sarawak's government wasn't toppled and replaced by an emergency ruled government by the federals. You may be learned about Malaya's history, but I'm learned about my OWN country's political history. Fact is we are two different countries and entities, 40 over years have gone by and you are still trying to impose your draconian, intolerant ideology upon us. Wake up!! I don't care if you have natiolistic pride for Malaya, your choice and your land. But don't sound like a tape recorder spewing government propaganda lines, excuses and mentality.

One more thing, ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH. You can't stop anyone from using any word, you and your beloved government get real.

you put a fellow sabahan mp.net member like me to shame

do some research before posting insulting content on international forum.this is no lyn and people here are going to use your post as basis of debate

[Eokboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV89G-wrgDQ

[LineDoggie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV89G-wrgDQ What a great Unbiased source......:roll:

[LaoSexMachine]

Seems to me some Malay Muslim are afraid Christans might convert some. Seems to me that some Malays are just whiny bitches. This so called "Ruining the harmony" is BS. If there was harmony this will not end up with Churches being burned down and Malays with hurt asses.

[ggk]

church being banned.. when this happen..i must have over slept

[LaoSexMachine]

church being banned.. when this happen..i must have over slept

I edited .

[Eokboy]

What a great Unbiased source......:roll:

Very biased indeed. Malaysian government should throw Al-Jazeera out of their KL branch.

[TheMiddlePath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV89G-wrgDQ


The guy at 2:00 is really embarrassing. What is he thinking ?

[sujithkochi]

heard there was stones thrown to a sikh temple yesterday. any idea if this is a related incident?

[sisqo]

*YAWN*........1Malaysia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100114/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_allah_ban

Lawyers' office in Malaysia 'Allah' case ransacked


By JULIA ZAPPEI, Associated Press Writer Julia Zappei, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 4 mins ago

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Burglars ransacked the offices of lawyers representing Christians fighting for the right to use the word "Allah" to refer to God in this Muslim-majority country, officials said Thursday.
Lawyer S. Selvarajah said that staff arrived at work in the morning to find several locks and steel grill doors to enter the 2nd and 3rd floor offices cut, drawers ransacked and papers strewn on the floor.
He said his partner's laptop was missing. A mobile phone service provider's shop and tuition center on the first floor were not broken into, he said.
"Only our office has been targeted," he said. "It looks like it is an intimidation tactic ... We anticipated something will happen. We are definitely upset about this," he told The Associated Press.
The incident adds to the tension building up since attacks since Friday night on nine churches, one of which was partially gutted.
The attacks followed a High Court ruling on Dec. 31, allowing a Catholic publication, the Herald, to use "Allah" as a translation for God in its Bahasa Melayu language edition. The ruling, which overturned a government ban on the word, upset many Muslims in Malaysia.
Bahasa is the language of the Malay Muslims, who comprise about 60 percent of the country's 28 million population. It is also spoken by indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak states on Borneo, who form more than 70 percent of Malaysia's 2.5 million Christians.
The government, which has appealed against the High Court ruling, says "Allah" is exclusive to Islam and its use by Christians would mislead Muslims. The Christians say they have been using the word for decades, and it is the only word they have for God in their language.
The government, which is also Muslim-majority, has condemned the attacks on the churches and has vowed to uphold the freedom of religion guaranteed to minorities by the constitution.
The ban is over the use of "Allah" only in published material and not in everyday verbal use by the country's various ethnic minorities, who form about 40 percent of the country's 28 million people. Ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities do not use the word "Allah."
Selvarajah said police and staff could not enter the third-floor office, in Kuala Lumpur's Petaling Jaya suburb, because the door was jammed. He said a camera in the building staircase was sprayed but he could not say with what.
Petaling Jaya police chief Arjunaidi Mohamed confirmed the break-in, saying police were investigating. He said it should not immediately be linked to recent church attacks. "It has nothing to do with the churches," he said.

[ggk]

*YAWN*........1Malaysia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100114/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_allah_ban

Lawyers' office in Malaysia 'Allah' case ransacked


By JULIA ZAPPEI, Associated Press Writer Julia Zappei, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 4 mins ago

.

go back to your hole kid...we malaysian dont want racist like you anyway.




"It has nothing to do with the churches," he said.


there you go... and where is that mighty debate i expected from you?

[hulaku]

Now a Sikh Temple attacked.
http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/storydetails.php/Sentul-Sikh-temple,-the-latest-%E2%80%98victim%E2%80%99-in-attacks-on-places-of-worship-around-the-country/3807-1-1

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/01/13/malaysia-sikh-temple-hit-with-stones-amid-tensions.html

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1154188&lang=eng_news&cate_img=1037.jpg&cate_rss=General

I have given three links cause denial is strong on this thread and they would deny it.

Another good country turning into an Islamist state.

[Sootan]

Another good country turning into an Islamist state.
Ah, but the will of the people is democracy, no?

[sujithkochi]

go back to your hole kid...we malaysian dont want racist like you anyway.



there you go... and where is that mighty debate i expected from you?

and even the 8 churches attacked were random and not related, no? p-)

[ggk]

and even the 8 churches attacked were random and not related, no? p-)

nope not random..there a culprit behind that.... but in this lawyer office case, i dont buy it...
1) i dont trust lawyer
2) he said ".........a camera in the building staircase was sprayed but he could not say with what." that satement linger behind my head quite a while.

[ggk]

Now a Sikh Temple attacked.
http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/storydetails.php/Sentul-Sikh-temple,-the-latest-%E2%80%98victim%E2%80%99-in-attacks-on-places-of-worship-around-the-country/3807-1-1

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/01/13/malaysia-sikh-temple-hit-with-stones-amid-tensions.html

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1154188&lang=eng_news&cate_img=1037.jpg&cate_rss=General

I have given three links cause denial is strong on this thread and they would deny it.

Another good country turning into an Islamist state.

and how does it related ..you dense or what? there you go i resize the font for you.

[JJHH]

i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.

For a moment I thought you were being sarcastic. For a moment I agreed with you.

[ggk]

..my guess is that moment has pass.

[hulaku]

Ah, but the will of the people is Islamist democracy, no?

Corrected it for you.

People burning Churches and stoning Temples.

[hulaku]

and how does it related ..you dense or what? there you go i resize the font for you.

Herald Malaysia, Jakarta Post, Taiwan News

I will deny.

[ggk]

Corrected it for you.

People burning Churches and stoning Temples.

all muslim in malaysia agree with this act? the government for one definately not. Most muslims here condemn the act... there are only one person who will gain a lot from this incident and he is desperate.


Herald Malaysia, Jakarta Post, Taiwan News

I will deny.

Taiwan news copy jakarta post , jakarta post copy Herald Malaysia, Herald malaysia is behind this tension in the first place ...and now dumb polititian are utilising this issue to divert attention from his problem. Sounds familiar?

[hulaku]

all muslim in malaysia agree with this act? the government for one definately not. Most muslims here condemn the act... there are only one person who will gain a lot from this incident and he is desperate.
Do you condemn it? If yes say that I condemn the burning of Churches and stoning of Temple categorically and dont pussyfoot.


Taiwan news copy jakarta post , jakarta post copy Herald Malaysia, Herald malaysia is behind this tension in the first place ...and now dumb polititian are utilising this issue to divert attention from his problem. Sounds familiar?Blame a newspaper now? Not the people who are targetting the religious places of minorities.

I continue with my denial.

[ggk]

Do you condemn it? If yes say that I condemn the burning of Churches and stoning of Temple categorically and dont pussyfoot.

.

ofcourse....and many malaysian too...here i said it


im not siding the criminal who attack the church and the mosque..but this is the kind of issues where people with malice intent can manipulate for political gain...especially desperate people.



Blame a newspaper now? Not the people who are targetting the religious places of minorities.

i already blame them, read it... you want to accuse me something?


I continue with my denial

ok please state clearly what exactly that i deny in the first place?

[sujithkochi]

ggk, its not the newspaper which started the attacks on churches & the sikh temple nor that 1 person whom u keep pointing ur fingers at. they just utilised the issue for their benefits, but the fact remains that these attacks happened

[ggk]

yes the question are who behind it? all Muslims (yeah islamist lulz) or some polititian? for sure the ruling government will never benefit with this action... they will never agree with it...so who?

[ggk]

Corrected it for you.

People burning Churches and stoning Temples....and one mosque (oh this one definately unrelated rrrright?)

Corrected it for you

[nasiru]

it seems that the news of muslim NGOs volunteered to guard these places of worship is not in here , and for all i know most if not all of the people i know, condemned these attacks because we have a lot of other way to settle this. These "muslims in malaysia dont condemn these attacks" issue is kinda disrespecting for muslims here.

[ggk]

it seems that the news of muslim NGOs volunteered to guard these places of worship is not in here , and for all i know most if not all of the people i know, condemned these attacks because we have a lot of other way to settle this. These "muslims in malaysia dont condemn these attacks" issue is kinda disrespecting for muslims here.

its is because some people really desperate to paint all muslim as evil..

[hulaku]

its is because some people really desperate to paint all muslim as evil..

Awww......so sweet.

[ggk]

Awww......so sweet.

Bottoms up! cheers...

anyway from the horrorfull news some you guys probably think "oh noes islamist are taking over!" or "Dark cloud over malaysia" or "Malaysia will be split into two!!!!!"

let me tell you something and this is true. What we think.

We are one malaysia and we dont approve this act.
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3843/image0279.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/image0279.jpg/)

this was taken one hour ago at the hospital

from the left Chinese,Philipino,Sabahan (same state as Sisqo and Ayanamitard), malay, sarawakian and lastly me... visiting our indonesian cleaner who were hit by a car yesterday.

hulaku can kiss my *expletive deleted*

[hulaku]

hulaku can kiss my *expletive deleted*

Yes, I love you too honey:)

[Excalibur]

from the left Chinese,Philipino,Sabahan (same state as Sisqo and Ayanamitard), malay, sarawakian and lastly me... visiting our indonesian cleaner who were hit by a car yesterday.how kind of you, however this thread is about attacks on churches in malaysia.

[Eokboy]

yes the question are who behind it? all Muslims (yeah islamist lulz) or some polititian? for sure the ruling government will never benefit with this action... they will never agree with it...so who?
I beg to differ. I hope to see more non-muslims leave Malaysia due to this incident. This will result in political power being consolidated by UMNO, and we can finally achieve true harmony and reclaim Tanah Melayu. Lets just face the facts here, 40% of people with different religion and language than the majority trying to co-exist is simply not going to happen. Even the US with 75% white majority still has racial issues going on for hundreds of years now, considering also that Hispanics and Blacks share the same religion, and Blacks speak exclusively English.

Which is why I said, in Malaysia's case the minority has to bend over backwards and submit to the will of the majority in order for peace to prevail. If they do not like it here, it would be in everyone's best interest that they leave. In fact, it is UMNO who is responsible for granting the non-malays citizenship at the behest of their British colonial masters. They have to make things right again and it seems they are.

Tell me ggk, do you have any non-malay/non-muslim friends you'd miss when they are gone? I do, but I believe its for their own good. I don't want them getting hurt when the second 13th May happens if a significant percentage of non-malays remain. It will be a second Rwanda 1994.

[sujithkochi]

its is because some people really desperate to paint all muslim as evil..

no need for such generalisation, ggk. no one here says all muslims are evil.

[Universal_Soldier]

More examples of Islam's love for other religions.

[asch]

I beg to differ. I hope to see more non-muslims leave Malaysia due to this incident. This will result in political power being consolidated by UMNO, and we can finally achieve true harmony and reclaim Tanah Melayu. Lets just face the facts here, 40% of people with different religion and language than the majority trying to co-exist is simply not going to happen. Even the US with 75% white majority still has racial issues going on for hundreds of years now, considering also that Hispanics and Blacks share the same religion, and Blacks speak exclusively English.

Which is why I said, in Malaysia's case the minority has to bend over backwards and submit to the will of the majority in order for peace to prevail. If they do not like it here, it would be in everyone's best interest that they leave. In fact, it is UMNO who is responsible for granting the non-malays citizenship at the behest of their British colonial masters. They have to make things right again and it seems they are.

Tell me ggk, do you have any non-malay/non-muslim friends you'd miss when they are gone? I do, but I believe its for their own good. I don't want them getting hurt when the second 13th May happens if a significant percentage of non-malays remain. It will be a second Rwanda 1994.
replace "Malaysia" with "Russia" and it will be the perfect neonazi skinhead rant.

[ggk]

I beg to differ. I hope to see more non-muslims leave Malaysia due to this incident. This will result in political power being consolidated by UMNO, and we can finally achieve true harmony and reclaim Tanah Melayu. Lets just face the facts here, 40% of people with different religion and language than the majority trying to co-exist is simply not going to happen. Even the US with 75% white majority still has racial issues going on for hundreds of years now, considering also that Hispanics and Blacks share the same religion, and Blacks speak exclusively English.

Which is why I said, in Malaysia's case the minority has to bend over backwards and submit to the will of the majority in order for peace to prevail. If they do not like it here, it would be in everyone's best interest that they leave. In fact, it is UMNO who is responsible for granting the non-malays citizenship at the behest of their British colonial masters. They have to make things right again and it seems they are.

Tell me ggk, do you have any non-malay/non-muslim friends you'd miss when they are gone? I do, but I believe its for their own good. I don't want them getting hurt when the second 13th May happens if a significant percentage of non-malays remain. It will be a second Rwanda 1994.

mmmmm i only want everyone to be the way we are before.......before this retard name Anwar Ibrahim came in. I couldnt care less if malays become minority if Malaysia is number one in everyone head.

sujith...you know im not implying you....and he already take the bait.

[sujithkochi]

yes bro, i know u r not implying me.

[sisqo]

More 1Malaysia Concepts

Malaysia minorities fear Islamization in Allah row

By EILEEN NG and VIJAY JOSHI, Associated Press Writers Eileen Ng And Vijay Joshi, Associated Press Writers – Thu Jan 14, 2:03 pm ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – A dispute over the use of the word "Allah" by Christians in Malaysia is the latest sign of growing hard-line Islamic influence in what has been a relatively moderate Muslim-majority country.
The dispute has spawned attacks on 10 churches and has hardened a long-standing sense of alienation among the non-Muslim minority, threatening 40 years of ethnic peace and stability that underpins Malaysia's economic success.
Tensions rose further Thursday after lawyers representing Christians in their legal fight for the right to use "Allah" discovered their office had been ransacked and a laptop was missing. Also Thursday, a church in the southern state of Johor was found to have been vandalized with red paint.
"We are continually treated as second-class citizens," said Benjamin Poh, a 47-year-old executive who is ethnic Chinese. He added that he is saving money so his son, now 10, can attend university overseas to escape discrimination at home.
The church attacks over the past week — most were firebombed — followed a Dec. 31 court decision overturning a government order that forbade a Catholic newspaper from using the word "Allah" as a translation for God in its Malay-language edition.
The opposition parties have been quick to blame the government for inflaming tensions with policies that pander to Muslims to win votes.
"Although the fire-bombing of churches alarmed Malaysians, it underscored the magnitude of the real problem," said Charles Santiago, an opposition member of Parliament.
"It showed that after 52 years of living together, nation building and national unity is in tatters. The church attacks shattered notions of Malaysia as a model secular Muslim nation in the eyes of the international community."
Prime Minister Najib Razak, who inherited the friction that grew largely during his predecessor's 2003-2009 tenure, strongly condemned the church attacks and vowed to protect the minorities.
"As a multiracial community we must practice respect for one another ... it cannot come under threat from anybody," he said.
A separate statement by his office said, "Malaysians of all faiths are angered by these incidents and stand together in solidarity. These are criminal acts committed by individuals and are not representative of Malaysia."
A nation of 28 million people in Southeast Asia, Malaysia is a multicultural mix. About 60 percent of the population is Malay, who are required to be Muslim by the Constitution. Another 25 percent are ethnic Chinese, mostly Buddhist, and about 8 percent are Indians, who are mostly Hindu.
Most of the Christians are indigenous people living on Borneo, a remote island about 3 hours by flight from Kuala Lumpur. While the "Allah" debate has puzzled and upset them — they have been using the word for decades — they have been largely watching the controversy in mainland Malaysia from afar.
The nation's current policies on race stem from violent riots in May 1969 in which Malays attacked the generally more prosperous Chinese. The government responded in part with an affirmative action program for Malays in jobs, housing and other areas. There are exclusive schools and colleges for Malays, while minorities fight for limited university places under the program.
While some minorities grumbled about the policies — and sent their children overseas to study and work — they generally accepted the preferences for Malays.
In the last three years, cracks have begun appearing in this carefully nurtured harmony.
While Malaysia remains much more moderate than such conservative Muslim societies such as Saudi Arabia, the church controversy is one of many religious disputes that have reinforced the feeling that Malaysia is slowly coming under the influence of radical Islam.
Take the examples of last year alone:
• Dozens of Muslims paraded with the bloodied head of a cow, a sacred animal in Hinduism, to protest the proposed relocation of a Hindu temple in their neighborhood;
• An Islamic court sentenced a Muslim woman to caning for drinking beer;
• on New Year's Eve, Islamic morality police arrested dozens of unmarried couples on suspicion of engaging in ****** activities.
The conflicts are often cast as a battle between Malays and non-Malays, blurring the lines between race and religion.
Since taking office in April 2009, Najib has implemented several reforms to increase opportunities for minorities in education and other areas. But decades of built-up resentment has been hard to erase.
The frustrations have been partly responsible for migrations. About 140,000 Malaysians took up residence in other countries in 2007, though it's unclear how many were non-Malays.
Shae Yew, a 20-year-old ethnic Chinese studying in Britain, said he has no intention of returning to Malaysia "unless I have no other options."
"I ... hated the policies which protected certain races and excluded the others. Over here, at least everyone is equal," he said.
The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion but permission is rarely given for building new churches or temples. Many ethnic Indians have complained in recent years of demolition of Hindu temples on sites declared illegal by authorities. Most Malay women have begun wearing head scarves, not part of their traditional attire.
Protests by minorities are declared illegal and demonstrators arrested swiftly, as in November 2007 when tens of thousands of Indians took to the streets to demand racial equality.
Though demonstrations last week by Muslim groups over the "Allah" controversy were declared illegal, the government said it could not stop popular protests held inside mosques. As a result, fiery speeches were delivered from within mosque compounds.
"Like it or not, Islam is the official religion and we are numbed to the special treatment given to the Malays," said Chong, a 37-year-old ethnic Chinese Christian, who would only give her surname. "But we are disappointed with the government's mild reaction to the church attacks. It's as if they are protecting the Malays in this issue."
Analysts lay part of the blame for the Islamization on the United Malays National Organization, the political party that heads the coalition that has ruled since 1957.
Ooi Kee Beng of the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore said it appears the government played up the "Allah" ban to appeal to Malay voters.
"It is retrogressive and a setback to nation-building," he said. "It's not a question of religion. It's a political game ... a dangerous game."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100114/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_feuding_over_allah;_ylt=AmHY9zvWaBdj5b3iW4bNFxoBxg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTM1a2J2ZmJ1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMTE0L2FzX21hbGF5c2lhX2ZldWRpbmdfb3Zlcl9hbGxhaARwb3MDMzQEc2VjA3luX3BhZ2luYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDbWFsYXlzaWFtaW5v

[ggk]

More 1Malaysia Concepts

Malaysia minorities fear Islamization in Allah row

By EILEEN NG and VIJAY JOSHI, Associated Press Writers Eileen Ng And Vijay Joshi, Associated Press Writers – Thu Jan 14, 2:03 pm ET


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100114/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_feuding_over_allah;_ylt=AmHY9zvWaBdj5b3iW4bNFxoBxg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTM1a2J2ZmJ1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMTE0L2FzX21hbGF5c2lhX2ZldWRpbmdfb3Zlcl9hbGxhaARwb3MDMzQEc2VjA3luX3BhZ2luYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDbWFsYXlzaWFtaW5v

Un founded fear....and very nice of you to edit the original news...pretty much shows your true colour

Malaysia minorities fear Islamization in Allah row

http://sg.yimg.com/i/sg/providers/ap.gif?x=114&y=27&sig=Jp87ESuYpEVsaU8q32kqug-- (http://aa.rd.yahoo.com/partners/ap/SIG=10mesffu6/*http://www.ap.org/)


By EILEEN NG and VIJAY JOSHI,Associated Press Writers - Friday, January 15

Send (http://mtf.news.yahoo.com/mailto?cid=1044&ncid=112&prop=my09news&locale=sg&url=http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/ap/20100115/tap-as-malaysia-feuding-over-allah-b3c65ae.html&title=Malaysia+minorities+fear+Islamization+in+Allah+row&h1=/ap/20100115/r_t_ap_ap_my/tap-as-malaysia-feuding-over-allah-b3c65ae&h2=T&h3=1044&s=I8JcINX3QsmLP9FbBTJeTG4JMDo-)
IM Story (http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/ap/20100115/tap-as-malaysia-feuding-over-allah-b3c65ae.html)
Print (http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/ap/20100115/tap-as-malaysia-feuding-over-allah-b3c65ae.html?printer=1)
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – A dispute over the use of the word "Allah" by Christians in Malaysia is the latest sign of growing hard-line Islamic influence in what has been a relatively moderate Muslim-majority country.


The dispute has spawned attacks on 10 churches and has hardened a long-standing sense of alienation among the non-Muslim minority, threatening 40 years of ethnic peace and stability that underpins Malaysia's economic success.

Tensions rose further Thursday after lawyers representing Christians in their legal fight for the right to use "Allah" discovered their office had been ransacked and a laptop was missing. Also Thursday, a church in the southern state of Johor was found to have been vandalized with red paint.

"We are continually treated as second-class citizens," said Benjamin Poh, a 47-year-old executive who is ethnic Chinese. He added that he is saving money so his son, now 10, can attend university overseas to escape discrimination at home.

The church attacks over the past week _ most were firebombed _ followed a Dec. 31 court decision overturning a government order that forbade a Catholic newspaper from using the word "Allah" as a translation for God in its Malay-language edition.

The opposition parties have been quick to blame the government for inflaming tensions with policies that pander to Muslims to win votes.

"Although the fire-bombing of churches alarmed Malaysians, it underscored the magnitude of the real problem," said Charles Santiago, an opposition member of Parliament.

"It showed that after 52 years of living together, nation building and national unity is in tatters. The church attacks shattered notions of Malaysia as a model secular Muslim nation in the eyes of the international community."

Prime Minister Najib Razak, who inherited the friction that grew largely during his predecessor's 2003-2009 tenure, strongly condemned the church attacks and vowed to protect the minorities.

"As a multiracial community we must practice respect for one another ... it cannot come under threat from anybody," he said.

A separate statement by his office said, "Malaysians of all faiths are angered by these incidents and stand together in solidarity. These are criminal acts committed by individuals and are not representative of Malaysia."

A nation of 28 million people in Southeast Asia, Malaysia is a multicultural mix. About 60 percent of the population is Malay, who are required to be Muslim by the Constitution. Another 25 percent are ethnic Chinese, mostly Buddhist, and about 8 percent are Indians, who are mostly Hindu.

Most of the Christians are indigenous people living on Borneo, a remote island about 3 hours by flight from Kuala Lumpur. While the "Allah" debate has puzzled and upset them _ they have been using the word for decades _ they have been largely watching the controversy in mainland Malaysia from afar.
The nation's current policies on race stem from violent riots in May 1969 in which Malays attacked the generally more prosperous Chinese. The government responded in part with an affirmative action program for Malays in jobs, housing and other areas. There are exclusive schools and colleges for Malays, while minorities fight for limited university places under the program.

While some minorities grumbled about the policies _ and sent their children overseas to study and work _ they generally accepted the preferences for Malays.

In the last three years, cracks have begun appearing in this carefully nurtured harmony.
While Malaysia remains much more moderate than such conservative Muslim societies such as Saudi Arabia, the church controversy is one of many religious disputes that have reinforced the feeling that Malaysia is slowly coming under the influence of radical Islam.

Take the examples of last year alone:
_ Dozens of Muslims paraded with the bloodied head of a cow, a sacred animal in Hinduism, to protest the proposed relocation of a Hindu temple in their neighborhood;
_ An Islamic court sentenced a Muslim woman to caning for drinking beer;
_ on New Year's Eve, Islamic morality police arrested dozens of unmarried couples on suspicion of engaging in ****** activities.

The conflicts are often cast as a battle between Malays and non-Malays, blurring the lines between race and religion.

Since taking office in April 2009, Najib has implemented several reforms to increase opportunities for minorities in education and other areas. But decades of built-up resentment has been hard to erase.

The frustrations have been partly responsible for migrations. About 140,000 Malaysians took up residence in other countries in 2007, though it's unclear how many were non-Malays.

Shae Yew, a 20-year-old ethnic Chinese studying in Britain, said he has no intention of returning to Malaysia "unless I have no other options."

"I ... hated the policies which protected certain races and excluded the others. Over here, at least everyone is equal," he said.

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion but permission is rarely given for building new churches or temples. Many ethnic Indians have complained in recent years of demolition of Hindu temples on sites declared illegal by authorities. Most Malay women have begun wearing head scarves, not part of their traditional attire.

Protests by minorities are declared illegal and demonstrators arrested swiftly, as in November 2007 when tens of thousands of Indians took to the streets to demand racial equality.

Though demonstrations last week by Muslim groups over the "Allah" controversy were declared illegal, the government said it could not stop popular protests held inside mosques. As a result, fiery speeches were delivered from within mosque compounds.

"Like it or not, Islam is the official religion and we are numbed to the special treatment given to the Malays," said Chong, a 37-year-old ethnic Chinese Christian, who would only give her surname. "But we are disappointed with the government's mild reaction to the church attacks. It's as if they are protecting the Malays in this issue."

Analysts lay part of the blame for the Islamization on the United Malays National Organization, the political party that heads the coalition that has ruled since 1957.

Ooi Kee Beng of the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore said it appears the government played up the "Allah" ban to appeal to Malay voters.

"It is retrogressive and a setback to nation-building," he said. "It's not a question of religion. It's a political game ... a dangerous game."



oi kid..im still waiting...on that Sabah debate.

[ggk]

Deal with controversies quickly, says Raja Nazrin


2010/01/15
M. Husairy Othman
IPOH: Matters which contain controversial elements should not be taken lightly and must be promptly dealt with instead of allowing them to spread beyond control, said Raja Muda of Perak Raja Dr Nazrin Shah.
He said such controversial matters would easily attract reactions, resulting in more misunderstandings which could have the potential of creating a confrontational environment.


“History has proven that wars and confrontations start from relatively small issues.

“One must realise that a huge fire is the result of embers which were not put out,” he said when opening the 169th Perak Islamic and Malay Customs Council conference here yesterday.

Raja Nazrin also said the people should be wise in identifying principles that could enhance unity.

At the same time, they must understand the negative implications that could be triggered as a result of raising matters that could cause discomfort to others.

“Do not stir a hornet’s nest,” he advised.

Raja Nazrin also said that while unity was the crucial element in ensuring close ties between one another, this (unity) could only be achieved through mutual respect and understanding.

“Matters that can help improve understanding must be nurtured while those that might cause ill feelings must be avoided.
“Hence, it is crucial for one to understand and identify provocative elements that might cause discomfort and anger to certain parties.” Raja Nazrin also called upon the people not to be egoistic as this might eventually lead to everyone suffering losses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Disputes won't benefit any quarters'


2010/01/15

KUALA PILAH: Yang Dipertuan Besar Negri Sembilan Tuanku Muhriz Tuanku Munawir has called on the people to unite and live in harmony and face challenges rationally.
"By inflaming racial sentiments, it will only prolong disputes, which will not benefit any quarters. Indeed, unity is the foundation of progress and development.

"If upheavals were to happen, they will render the country unsafe," he said at the investiture ceremony to mark his 62nd birthday at Istana Besar Seri Menanti yesterday.

Tuanku Muhriz said he hoped the people would strive for harmony and respect the racial and religious backgrounds of one another to achieve everlasting unity.

On development, he hoped the policies and programmes laid out by the government would bring prosperity and progress to the people.

"However, if the programmes and polices are not embraced by the people, it will stifle efforts to meet the targets set." -- Bernama

[ggk]

'No religion condones violence'


2010/01/15
Zaharah Othman from London
VIOLENCE cannot be allowed in the name of religion. No religion condones violence as a means to pursue an essentially religious objective, Deputy Prime Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin said.
He delivered the message at the Oxford Centre of Islamic Studies' lecture.

His address was entitled "Islam and Critical Challenges in Multi-Religious Malaysia".

Muhyiddin told an audience of students and academics at the centre that Malaysia continues to face great challenges in promoting religious tolerance and maintaining religious harmony.

However, he added, "we cannot let unbridled freedom of religion to cause discord and animosity in a multi-religious society like Malaysia.

"Just as I speak here today, there is a hue and cry among the Muslim community in Malaysia over a High Court ruling which allows a Christian publication to use the word 'Allah' in its newsletter.

"No matter what our personal view is on this issue, whether we think that it is the right of the Christians to use the word 'Allah' to refer to the Christian god, or it is the exclusive right of the Muslims to claim possession of the word, we have to acknowledge that such an incident causes discord in a multireligious country like Malaysia.

"The combined effects of these competing interests, if not properly managed, is hatred and animosity among religious communities."

During a question and answer session, Muhyiddin told the audience of messages he received from his non- Muslim friends from Sabah and Sarawak which said that there were Christians who felt that things would not have happened in the first place if "we, the Christians would just not use the word "Allah".

"Things that have happened of course have happened and we hope that they will not recur in the future. We will not allow anybody to harbour this issue."

Muhyiddin also called for more religious tolerance to mend a deepening rift between the West and the Islamic world.

He added that the growing Islamophobia and xenophobia in the West, and the widening perception that Muslims and Islamic values are under attack, had threatened to turn the West and the Islamic world into adversaries.

The deputy prime minister had earlier visited the Malaysia Auditorium, where ornate carvings from Malaysia are used to decorate the centre.

Muhyiddin, who was met by the director of the centre, Dr Farhan Nizamim, was accompanied by his wife, Puan Sri Noorainee Abdul Rahman and Malaysia's High Commissioner to UK and Northern Ireland, Datuk Abd Aziz Mohammad.



================================================================


Institute to hold talks on 'Allah' issue


2010/01/15

KUALA LUMPUR: The Institute of Islamic Understanding, Malaysia will hold a muzakarah pakar or expert discussion on the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims and seek a solution to it on Jan 21.
Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Datuk Dr Ma****ah Ibrahim said the closed-door discussion would be a most suitable platform to find an amicable solution to the issue compared to an open forum. She said this at the seventh convocation ceremony of the Baitulmal Professional Institute (IPB), here, yesterday.

Ma****ah, however, said the public should also realise that the issue of the use of the word 'Allah' by the Catholic weekly, the Herald would also have to be resolved at the court.

On the 12 resolutions by 70 Muslim non-governmental organisations which also called on the Conference of Rulers to intervene, Ma****ah said the NGOs' initiative was for a concerted stand on the issue.

She said the planned muzakarah should also indicate that the Muslims were sensitive over matters involving religion. -- Bernama

[ggk]

Student nabbed again for second Facebook remark


2010/01/15

KUALA LUMPUR: Police investigations into two seditious comments posted on Facebook recently revealed that they were made by the same suspect, a student. The student allegedly commented on the arson attempts on churches claiming that he manufactured the home-made bombs.

Another posting which surfaced later was a threat against a Hindu temple in Batu Caves. He allegedly said that he was willing to do it for a fee.

The 25-year-old student from Johor was picked up by police earlier this week after his posting on the churches surfaced. He was released on bail after he had his statement recorded.

It was learnt that the student had since posted a public apology on his Facebook account and had also removed his earlier posting.

On Wednesday, Putera MIC lodged a report over the posting on the Hindu temple and police investigations led them to the same suspect.
The suspect, a student of the National Arts Culture and Heritage Academy, was nabbed again at his rented apartment in Sunway Mentari yesterday.

He is now being detained for further investigations.

It was reported that when he was held the first time, he said he posted the comment as a joke.

Deputy Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Ismail Omar lashed out, saying that sensitive issues are not to be joked about.

Higher Education Minister Datuk Seri Mohamed Khaled Nordin said on Wednesday that the student had to take responsibility for his actions although he claimed to be only "playing around".

The minister urged police to bring the student to court, adding that this matter could not be taken lightly.

"Just because he is a student, it does not mean he is special or has immunity from the law," Khaled said.

Meanwhile, Selangor police chief Datuk Khalid Abu Bakar said the case is now being handled by the Federal Commercial Crime Investigation Department.

[ggk]

PKR leaders deny split over 'Allah' stand


2010/01/15

KUALA LUMPUR: Parti Keadilan Rakyat leaders yesterday denied claims of facing "serious disagreements" over the "Allah" issue, saying all members support of the party's stand.
Newly-appointed PKR secretary-general Saifuddin Nasution Ismail said claims that increasing numbers of party leaders and members were not satisfied with Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim's directions were untrue, as they had reached a consensus.

"We have done a thorough analysis and consulted party figures before coming out with the stand. So, there should not be arguments saying we do not agree with Anwar or Dr Muhd Nur Manuty (chairman of the party's religious understanding and strengthening bureau)," he said.

On Wednesday, Anwar's former political aide Anuar Shaari said several prominent leaders in PKR did not agree with their leader on many issues, including the recent "Allah" controversy.

PKR's Kulim Bandar Baru member of parliament Zulkifli Noordin also said a number of the party's MPs were against the party's stand, but found it "difficult" to voice their opinions.

Lembah Pantai PKR division head Nurul Izzah Anwar described Anuar's allegation as "far from true".

The Lembah Pantai MP said PKR welcomed dissenting views and there were sufficient channels for members to express their opinions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ggk]

Let muted voice of reason prevail in 'Allah' issue


2010/01/15

THE nation is confused.
Let's take stock of the situation -- almost 10 houses of worship were attacked across the country, all in the wake of a verbal and judicial skirmish over the right to use the name "Allah".

One group claims it is their historical right to have exclusive use of the name, another claims it is constitutionally wrong to deny them the choice of using it.

The situation has blown up in everyone's faces in a span of barely two weeks, as proponents on both sides ride on high emotions in vigorous defence of their respective positions.

All the while, Malaysians living across the South China Sea are left with furrowed brows as they attempt to make sense of a dispute they cannot quite understand.

It is an indisputable fact that Christians, alongside their Muslim brethren in Sabah and Sarawak have used "Allah" in worship for at least a century. And this fact has never been a bone of contention, even to this day despite fellow Malaysians in the peninsula fighting it out to secure the right over the use of the word.

Danny (not his real name), a Catholic of Sino-Kadazan parentage, pointed out that such a dispute would only divide his family if it were ever to become an issue.

"In my family, we have Christians and Muslims and we celebrate all the festivals together. Using 'Allah' is not a problem because we try to understand each other's faiths," said Danny, who lives in Kota Kinabalu.

An engineering student from Kuching, who only wanted to be identified as Azizul, said it was an accepted norm for Christians in Sarawak to use "Allah".

"It's not like they are using it in a bad way. They are praying to Allah, and so are we as Muslims, we just do it differently," he said.

For two states that have practised mutual acceptance in the use of the name "Allah" for at least 100 years, such voices are muted under the apparent clash of ideologies between the Muslim and Catholic faithful in the peninsula. But more importantly, it points out an already glaring reason for the flare-ups -- ignorance.

Before you begin trumpeting the rights and merits held by your creed, can you claim to know and understand the faith of your neighbour?

It is ignorance that has served to fuel the fires of anger and distrust, a lack of communication and understanding that has put the faithful on the defensive.

Which brings to mind two more questions -- what exactly is being defended, and is there really a need to defend?

This is where clarity is needed to help make sense of this mess.


Whichever way the Appeals Court decides on the use of "Allah" in the weekly publication, the Herald, somebody's going to be unhappy.

While the decision would be legally binding, the reality is that it may cause the situation to become more fragmented.

If the appeal goes in favour of the Catholic church, it would mean going back to status quo in Sabah and Sarawak but not so for states in the peninsula, where it is perceived as most unacceptable.

It could leave much room for misinterpretation, as it may be viewed as contradictory to existing enactments in several states which prohibit the use of certain words from the Quran by non-Muslims.

If the decision goes in favour of the government, then it would not satisfy those who claim the case to be more a case of human rights rather than a religious issue.

And while it may not necessarily mean the government will stop Christians in Sabah and Sarawak from using the word "Allah", it would still stir unease as they have long been accustomed to having Mass said in Malay.

Such a quandary suggests that one way to settle the issue is to possibly have a different set of rules for different states based on religious breakdown. But by creating such a system, where compromise is the key word, it could also run the risk of seeming to lead invariably to racial polarisation.

This does not mean that this is the only solution left in managing this contentious issue, which risks damaging the country's reputation of being a peace-loving, multicultural and multireligious society.

The solution may not be clear for now, but it may be found among the people of Sabah and Sarawak and how they have managed to coexist peacefully over centuries past.

Even with the physical divide separating the two states from the peninsula, they are no less Malaysian -- arguably, their racial and religious unity is a benchmark for national unity.

It is admirable that most leaders from both states, religious or otherwise, have held their counsel to avoid adding fuel to the fire, but it is probably the right time for them to speak up and help pull the country out of the quagmire it is in.

If we are to live as 1Malaysia, then maybe we should spare some time from our raucous sloganeering and let the muted voice of reason come to the fore.

sipalan@nst.com.my

[kalavelka]

i say kick that Priest in the head..he is the one that created this mess.... sigh 50 years of peace and tollerance..swept away by a retard who think it is awesome to use Allah instead of God and ...to add salt to the insult ... using islamic caligraphy at the cover page of his bible. What an idiot.
This is like the most retarted s*it I have ever heard. IF I would call you pig eating f*g, it would justify you to burn my house down just because I insulted you? :cantbeli:

And then these people wonder why is it that muslims have such a violent and intolerant reputation. Truly a religion of peace! When do you start to take responsibility of your own actions and stop blaming others? *sigh*

[junglejim]

If you read in GGK's post instead of listening to your prejudice, he is pissed not because of the Christians insisting on calling it Allah but more so because it has disturbed the peace in his land.

And as a Catholic, I would have to side with him on this one. Since when did Christians call God, Allah? Thats just starting **** up

[kalavelka]

If you read in GGK's post instead of listening to your prejudice, he is pissed not because of the Christians insisting on calling it Allah but more so because it has disturbed the peace in his land.
And christians using the name of allah is not in anyway reason to start burning places down and rioting. So it is complete retard to accuse the priest of dissidents.

[ayanami_tard]

you're saying as if some radical action can be justified

using the name is one thing.burning a place of worship is another.whoever done this are either a fool or has hidden agenda in his sleeves



This is like the most retarted s*it I have ever heard. IF I would call you pig eating f*g, it would justify you to burn my house down just because I insulted you?

and how if your action will cause a bloody conflict with potentially many lives lost due to some misinformation you brought?can you explain
...

and to the brat who write the sabah state in malaysia thing,i still demand an explanation as a sabahan as well

[kalavelka]

and how if your action will cause a bloody conflict with potentially many lives lost due to some misinformation you brought?can you explain

OK, let me change it a little bit. If I insult you, does it justify you and your palls to start murder and pillaging all over the hood?

If yes, then you can accuse me of all the violence.

If no, it might be wise to start wonder whats wrong with you and your clan and why you guys have to start rampage and crush places everytime when someone *insults* you, like you were little girls.

edit. done it little bit more clear

[nasiru]

the attackers/perps involved are still unknown from what i have read , they may be muslims,christians,other religion's ,people with some sort of agenda to disturb the racial harmony,common thugs,people that dont have nothing better to do,the list go on ... it seems some people here think it MUST be the muslims and not any other group/people/parties. Let the authorities investigate and arrest the people involved.

[kalavelka]

Yeah right the local muslims get insulted by christian priest and churches start burning. Knowing how peaceful muslims have been in the past (for example the responses for the Gyllands Posten cartoons or pope Benedict XVI's Regensburg lecture), the little pyromans must have been.... christians themselves. How it didnt cross my mind before?? Silly me, must be coz my prejudice :cantbeli:

[hulaku]

Yeah right the local muslims get insulted by christian priest and churches start burning. Knowing how peaceful muslims have been in the past (for example the responses for the Gyllands Posten cartoons or pope Benedict XVI's Regensburg lecture), the little pyromans must have been.... christians themselves. How it didnt cross my mind before?? Silly me, must be coz my prejudice :cantbeli:
x2
Agree with you.

But denial is strong on this thread.

[nasiru]

Knowing how peaceful muslims have been in the past (for example the responses for the Gyllands Posten cartoons or pope Benedict XVI's Regensburg lecture)

Silly me, must be coz my prejudice
You tried to be sarcastic or maybe funny but you just proved it is because of your prejudice, by saying all the muslims are doing the same thing everywhere .Do you see any violent protest or church burnt or maybe embassies attacked last time in malaysia during the cartoon controversy?

[nasiru]

But denial is strong on this thread.
Why make a conclusion while the investigation is still ongoing.

[hulaku]

Why make a conclusion while the investigation is still ongoing.

Nine churches attacked and seven firebombed.

At least nine churches have been attacked in Malaysia since last Friday in the wake of the High Court decision. Seven churches were firebombed - four in the Klang Valley, two in Taiping and another in Seremban.http://www.brudirect.com/index.php/Malaysiakini/stones-thrown-at-sikh-temple-in-sentul.html

Sikh temple attacked
Gurudwara attacked in Malaysia

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/13/gurudwara-attacked-in-malaysia.htm

Hindu temple threatened
http://www.nst.com.my/articles/04fb/Article/index_html/Article

Yep it could have been the Christians, Sikhs or Hindus.

The Nile is the name of river in Egypt and not Malaysia.

[kalavelka]

You tried to be sarcastic or maybe funny but you just proved it is because of your prejudice, by saying all the muslims are doing the same thing everywhere .Do you see any violent protest or church burnt or maybe embassies attacked last time in malaysia during the cartoon controversy?
No, I didnt say all muslims are same, but reckoning how muslims usually handle this kind of sh*t, I have good reasons to suppose that the perps truly are followers of religion of peace.

[pg_ord]

Nine churches fire bombed.

Sikh temple attacked
Gurudwara attacked in Malaysia

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/13/gurudwara-attacked-in-malaysia.htm

Hindu temple threatened
http://www.nst.com.my/articles/04fb/Article/index_html/Article

Yep it could have been the Christians, Sikhs or Hindus.

The Nile is the name of river in Egypt and not Malaysia.
Why is there rage against Hindus and Sikhs here?:|

[hulaku]

Why is there rage against Hindus and Sikhs here?:|

I wish one of the denialist could explain that to us.

[Ulytau]

If we speaking about temples etc.

just simple google search petrol bomb+mosque ;

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=petrol+bomb+mosque&aq=&oq=petrol+bomb+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=molotov+mosque&aq=&oq=molotov+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

Accept or not,radicals were in this world past,radicals are still in this world today and radicals going to be in this world at future too.

I just wonder about if Malaysian government show iron fist to this people i am 100% sure some countries will start speakin about human rights and their rights aganist em.

[nasiru]

Yep it could have been the Christians, Sikhs or Hindus.
Why is there rage against Hindus and Sikhs here?You guys forgot the one mosque that got attacked too . Oh yeah .. its a muslim's place of worship, doesnt count or related for you guys?


but reckoning how muslims usually handle this kind of sh*tYou just proved yourself again of your prejudice . Muslim dont behave like a robot where we are all the same emotionally or physically .

Arguing with you guys might be good to learn and think the situation here, but for some people they just like blaming the muslims and just skip the part they dont like .


I just wonder about if Malaysian government show iron fist to this people i am 100% sure some countries will start speakin about human rights and their rights aganist em.
The ISA would be used but it might backfire if the issue is used by the people that dont like the government now. most of the ISA detainees are malay muslims anyway.

[hulaku]

If we speaking about temples etc.

just simple google search petrol bomb+mosque ;

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=petrol+bomb+mosque&aq=&oq=petrol+bomb+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=molotov+mosque&aq=&oq=molotov+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

Accept or not,radicals were in this world past,radicals are still in this world today and radicals going to be in this world at future too.

I just wonder about if Malaysian government show iron fist to this people i am 100% sure some countries will start speakin about human rights and their rights aganist em.

The point being discussed here is the attack on the religious places of minorities in Malaysia which are taking place right now.

Any attck on a place of worship is a desplicable act to say the least but denying the facts wont get you anywhere.

[kalavelka]

If we speaking about temples etc.

just simple google search petrol bomb+mosque ;

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=petrol+bomb+mosque&aq=&oq=petrol+bomb+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=tr&q=molotov+mosque&aq=&oq=molotov+mosque&fp=cb04256deea8affa

Accept or not,radicals were in this world past,radicals are still in this world today and radicals going to be in this world at future too.

I just wonder about if Malaysian government show iron fist to this people i am 100% sure some countries will start speakin about human rights and their rights aganist em.
Yes, also the other religions have their wackos, but when was the last time when a whole western christian society went nuts over something that was posted in newspaper on Gaza? You get it?

[Ulytau]

^^^^

Only one thing about myself when i see Turkish Jew calling God with saying Allah on TV was make me pretty happy ''As i notice every Turkish Jews which i meet are'' but this man also victim of 2003 Istanbul Bombing too.

[hulaku]

You guys forgot the one mosque that got attacked too . Oh yeah .. its a muslim's place of worship, doesnt count or related for you guys?


Link/ source please?

[nasiru]

Link/ source please? check the back pages,posted by ggk .check page 5 , it seems i cant link it here .


(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/../showthread.php?172039-Protestors-burn-three-churches-in-Malaysia&p=4686848&viewfull=1#post4686848)

[pg_ord]

You guys forgot the one mosque that got attacked too .
You don't get the question here. Mosques, churches and temples do get attacked in India. If say hindu fundamentalists attack a mosque using some retarded logic, it i usually retaliated by attacking a temple, both are retards but these yahoos are not retarded enough (thankfully?) to go and attack a church to piss off more retards.

Mine was a serious question not a rhetorical one. :|

[kalavelka]

You guys forgot the one mosque that got attacked too . Oh yeah .. its a muslim's place of worship, doesnt count or related for you guys?

Oh you mean that one which was attacked after the numerous attacks against churches? I also condemn that one. Let the perps rot in hell!


You just proved yourself again of your prejudice . Muslim dont behave like a robot where we are all the same emotionally or physically .

No they dont, but following the news from the last ten years it gives you quite clear picture how the muslim masses usually behave when feeling insulted by other religions. Or how do you think yourself? If a major western newspaper would write an article with Gyllands Posten images about pedophile prophet mohammed and stating that the followers of his religion are just punch backward ragheads who live in the culture straight from the middle-ages, how would the muslim world react?

[nasiru]

it's a mystery to me too why temples are attacked , some say the sikh temple was attacked because it looks like a mosque .:|


Oh you mean that one which was attacked after the numerous attacks against churches?
it is still an attack nonetheless.


If a major western newspaper would write an article with Gyllands Posten images about pedophile prophet mohammed and stating that the followers of his religion are just punch backward ragheads who live in the culture straight from the middle-ages, how would the muslim world react?
it is unlikely a major western newspaper going to write that .. lol.. To answer your question you might like to read back your old newspaper and see the difference of protest or anger from the muslim world. I hope you dont take the middle east and pakistan as your "muslim world" as there are a lot more muslim around the world ;)

[hulaku]

check the back pages,posted by ggk .check page 5 , it seems i cant link it here .


A mosque sliding door damaged by a drunk and............

[hulaku]

it's a mystery to me too why temples are attacked , some say the sikh temple was attacked because it looks like a mosque .:|

Yeh right:roll:

[nasiru]

well , we do have people that cant differentiate them as sikhism is pretty low profile here as far as i know .

[hulaku]

well , we do have people that cant differentiate them as sikhism is pretty low profile here as far as i know .

Maybe they thought the Batu Caves was also a Muslim place of worship and heck yes maybe all those Churches looked like Mosques. Keep on denying.

[nasiru]

what? i posted about why the sikh temple was attacked . lol please dont bring in church,hindu temple in a talk about why a sikh temple was attacked.

[hulaku]

what? i posted about why the sikh temple was attacked . lol please dont bring in church,hindu temple in a talk about why a sikh temple was attacked.

No comments. Denial strong.

Keep blaming others.

Im out of this thread.

[nasiru]

lol...good, i think..

[Eokboy]

replace "Malaysia" with "Russia" and it will be the perfect neonazi skinhead rant.

Your country suddenly has 25% mandarin speaking taoists and 8% tamil speaking hindus gaining citizenship over the course of 50 years. I'd like to see you deal with that.

Had this exact immigration profile occur in countries with a more culturally confident indigenous population, the result will surely be large scale ethnic cleansing. Of course, that is if the immigrants were allowed citizenship in the first place.

We OTOH are a backwards, muslim, intellectually inferior race, probably on the same level of social decay as european gypsies. You expect us to exhibit warmth and tolerance to a group of people with barely nothing in common with us? Like how your well-heeled countries celebrate diversity with your laughably minuscule and culturally assimilated minorities? Oh please...

[Euroamerican]

Keep the dialog open everyone! I haven't read the thread for a couple of days but I'll go back and read it again.

The following sentence is extremely interesting and speaks to the need for those who live outside that area to read up more on the overall subject:

Had this exact immigration profile occur in countries with a more culturally confident indigenous population, the result will surely be large scale ethnic cleansing. Of course, that is if the immigrants were allowed citizenship in the first place.

[pg_ord]

Your country suddenly has 25% mandarin speaking taoists and 8% tamil speaking hindus gaining citizenship over the course of 50 years. I'd like to see you deal with that.

This is kind of true, not sure about percentage, but British did alter the demography by bringing in Indian workers to work in plantations. Given that percentage of minorities in Pakistan AFTER partition gradually reduced from around 18-20% to 2% Malaysia has done a decent job.

[Eokboy]

mmmmm i only want everyone to be the way we are before.......before this retard name Anwar Ibrahim came in. I couldnt care less if malays become minority if Malaysia is number one in everyone head.

sujith...you know im not implying you....and he already take the bait.

'the way we are before' - I take it that you mean the way things are when everybody voted for BN. The time when minorities shut up, pay their taxes and silently mock the malay goverment in their hearts, and malays do the same in return, except take all that tax money and use our political leverage to turn Malaysia into a social welfare machine.

Any right thinking person can see right through this charade and how it won't last very long.

[Eokboy]

This is kind of true, not sure about percentage, but British did alter the demography by bringing in Indian workers to work in plantations. Given that percentage of minorities in Pakistan AFTER partition gradually reduced from around 18-20% to 2% Malaysia has done a decent job.

So far, yes.

To give you a basic idea of why this is so, the arrangement is: we malays give you guys citizenship but in return we get to take your money and treat you like ****.

[pg_ord]

So far, yes.

To give you a basic idea of why this is so, the arrangement is: we malays give you guys citizenship but in return we get to take your money and treat you like ****.
what I heard is Malay Chinese are well off in spite of not being "bhumiputras". Economy will start to suffer if these trends continue. I just hope Malays don't embrace an ideology they cannot afford. ;)

[Eokboy]

what I heard is Malay Chinese are well off in spite of not being "bhumiputras". Economy will start to suffer if these trends continue. I just hope Malays don't embrace an ideology they cannot afford. ;)

in the case of malaysian chinese: we malays give you guys citizenship as long as you guys give us some money. Sure we don't mind schools with mandarin curriculum and jobs with mandarin speaking requirements, shut up and make our government rich.

[TheMiddlePath]

Why is there rage against Hindus and Sikhs here?

Sikhs also use "Allah" ?

Gurudwara president Gurdial Singh was quoted as saying that some of their holy scriptures use the word 'Allah' to refer to God.

[TheMiddlePath]

in the case of malaysian chinese: we malays give you guys citizenship as long as you guys give us some money. Sure we don't mind schools with mandarin curriculum and jobs with mandarin speaking requirements, shut up and make our government rich.

So long as UMNO continue to implement economic friendly policies and we Chinese will continue to make even more money (Some of which we hide using a different account book), and we will keep very quiet and will not bitch and hold demonstrations like the Indians.

Why do you think Malaysia has the biggest gambling casino, is the largest pork producer and the highest liqour consumption per capital in all South Seas despite being a Muslim Country ?
And you guys worry about a word for god ?

And dont touch our Chinese Schools. Education is our most sensitive core issue.

[Eokboy]

By whose standards?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDac5GXjLMo


There are many reports and videos on this same matter but today I would like to talk about this one in particular. This is because, first of all, I personally know all three personalities and, secondly, because of what these three personalities represent.

Khalid is a PAS (Islamic Party of Malaysia) Member of Parliament. So he is supposed to represent the extreme, uncompromising, radical, intolerant face of Islam (as what most people view PAS to be). Yusri is ABIM (Islamic Youth Movement), a product of UIA (International Islamic University) as well as MCKK (Malay College Kuala Kangsar; a ‘secular’ school), plus one-time personal assistant to Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail (the founder President of PKR; a non-race-based, multi-ethnic liberal party). Marina (the daughter of Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad) is Sisters-in-Islam (whom many Malays view as ‘deviant’ Muslims).

It is therefore quite a ‘mixed bag’ and represents the two extremes of Malay-Islam with the ‘in between’, if you know what I mean. In other words, the three can be viewed as almost representing the entire cross-section of Malay-Islam. At least that is what the ‘normal’ perception would be.

Surprisingly, Marina did not ‘let loose’ as she is quite capable of doing and what I thought she would do. She actually held back quite a bit and I felt she was happy just allowing Khalid and Yusri to say their piece without ‘adding to the heat’. Khalid took the liberal and more accommodating stand while Yusri spoke as if he and not Khalid was PAS. In other words, Khalid and Yusri ‘switched roles’.

What Yusri said was a repeat of what many others also said since the ‘Allah controversy’ first exploded. He said things like: this is the Islamic tradition, this is what the ulamak (religious scholars) say, this is the fatwah (religious decree), and so on. Now, notice, he did not say: this is my opinion. He said this is the tradition and this is what the experts say.

This strengthens the argument that I have been putting forward in that Muslims do not dare think for themselves or rationalise the issue. They ‘hide’ behind what others say and justify this by saying that the ‘experts’ have made their ruling so let us go with what the experts have ruled.

And this has always been the problem with religion, all religions, for thousands of years. ‘They dare to be different’ is not the catch-phrase of religionists. ‘We follow without question’, is.

Okay, let us go with Yusri’s argument, a man whom I have great respect for and whom I actually quite like (and whom I always enjoy bullying since he is my junior in MCKK and in the MCKK ‘tradition’ the seniors are allowed to bully the juniors and the juniors are supposed to take it without a whimper).

Hmm…there we go…tradition. And since Yusri is a great defender of tradition I am sure he will not oppose this MCKK tradition as well. After all, Megat Najmuddin is also my senior in MCKK and in the MCKK tradition I allow him to whack me without whacking him back. (Remember he asked me to come home and surrender myself and go to jail?)

Anyway, today I want to discuss the Islamic tradition and opinions of ulamak and religious decrees, which Yusri and many others talk about. And my question is: by whose standards are they talking?

Let me give you an example or two of what I mean so that you can understand my question.

At the height of the (second) Wahhabi uprising against the Ottoman Colonialists of the Arabian Peninsula soon after the First World War and just before the Second World War (read the story of Lawrence of Arabia), it was the Islamic ‘tradition’ to put to death all non-Wahhabi Muslims. The joint Wahhab-Saud forces swept across the Arabian Peninsula and while all Jews, Christians and ‘others’ were spared, the Muslims who were not Wahhabis were slaughtered. In fact, the town of Taif was put to the sword and every man, woman and child, including livestock, were massacred. Nothing was spared.

That was the Islamic ‘tradition’ then, 100 years or so ago, at least as far as the Wahhabi Muslims were concerned. So, as I said, according to whose standards are we making our judgment? According to which Islamic ‘tradition’ do we base our decision on? The ulamak had spoken. Religious decrees were issued. So was it right or wrong to massacre all Muslims not of the Wahhabi faith while non-Muslims were spared?

In 1932, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded and Wahhabi Islam became the official religion of the Kingdom, just like Sunni Islam is the official religion of Malaysia. The Federation of Malaya was founded in 1957 followed by Malaysia in 1963. So Saudi Arabia was first. Malaysia came later. But Malaysia did not adopt Wahhabi Islam as the official religion of the country. Why? Why did the Malay religious scholars not follow the religious scholars of Saudi Arabia seeing that the seat of Islam is Mekah and Medina, both in Saudi Arabia?

So you see, there are scholars and there are scholars. And Islam is not just Islam. Islam comes in many ‘forms’, for want of a better word. And it all depends on your belief as to which Islam is the ‘correct’ version of Islam as far as you are concerned.

So, to say that this is what the scholars have decided and that this is the religious decree issued is not the end of the matter. You do not win the debate by arguing that this is what the scholars have decided and this is the religious decree they issued. It depends on when, where, who and why. And it also depends on what you believe in. So how do you regulate belief? It can’t be done as what the Malay-Muslims of Malaysia would like us to believe.

In short, you can’t argue that this has been decided and this is final. It may be as far as you are concerned. But who are you to impose the same on me?

When television was first introduced, the Saudi Scholars refused to allow television to come into the country -- just like Rais Yatim says that the Internet is a western invention that will erode our Malaysian culture.

It took many years for the ruling elite to convince the Saudi scholars to allow television to come into the country. Finally they agreed to compromise. But television can only broadcast ‘filtered’ news, religious programmes and Quran recitals (now football as well). But they can’t broadcast movies and entertainment programmes, until today.

This was the opinion of the religious scholars or ulamak. This was their religious decree or fatwah. It is considered ‘politically correct’ for Saudi Arabia, the seat of Islam. So why does Malaysia not also follow the rulings of the Saudi scholars? Are these scholars wrong when they know Islam better than any non-Arabic speaking Malaysian like our Minister of Information?

The Saudi scholars also refused to allow planes to land in Saudi Arabia. People who wanted to perform their pilgrimage to Mekah had to take a ship (kapal haji). It was not until later that the Saudi scholars compromised and allowed an airline company to be formed and for foreign planes to land in Saudi Arabia. But the Saudi airline company may not employ local Saudi women as stewardesses and there must not be any liquor on board the plane -- like MAS, the airlines from Malaysia, another country where Islam is the official religion.

I can go on and on; such as women can’t drive in Saudi Arabia and they can’t leave home alone and unescorted by a member of the family and so on and so forth. In Malaysia, the scholars have not ruled the same or issued any religious decree to that affect.

The point I am making is you can’t win an argument by saying that this is the opinion of the religious scholars and this is what they decreed because in different places, and at different times, different scholars have ruled differently. So what standards are you using for Malaysia when you talk about the Islamic tradition and religious decrees and whatnot?

In Afghanistan, another Muslim country, they beat women who do not wear a headdress (tudung) in public. In Turkey, yet another Muslim country, they ban women from using a headdress. Women must remove their headdress before entering the university compound or else they would be denied entry. One lady Member of Parliament was escorted out of the Turkish Parliament building because she refused to remove her headdress. In Malaysia, it is your choice to wear it or not. It is not compulsory and neither is it banned.

Afghanistan, Turkey and Malaysia, all Muslim countries. But they have different rulings on even such a ‘simple’ thing as the tudung. And all three countries have religious scholars who have issued religious decrees. But why is it not consistent? Why the differences?

In other words, whose standards do we apply? Afghanistan’s, Turkey’s or Malaysia’s?

The Malays will say we are Malaysians so we apply Malaysian standards. But why Malaysian standards? Does Malaysia have a monopoly on heaven? Is there a verse in the Quran that even mentions Malaysia by name? I have read the Quran from cover to cover so many times but I can’t find Malaysia mentioned anywhere. Okay, you may argue that reading the Quran alone is not enough. We also need to read the Hadith. Okay, then show me one Hadith, just one, that mentions Malaysia.

What if I were to argue that Prophet Muhammad was an Arab and the Quran is in Arabic so I would trust the Arabs more than the Malays, Afghans or Turks? I did not say I agree with this argument, I am just saying what if I were to argue that? And what if I argue: therefore I insist I follow the Arab ‘tradition’, which means the Wahhabi version of Islam?

Ah, then you will say that I am a deviant who has strayed from Islam and JAKIM will make a police report against me and ask that the police arrest me and send me to Kamunting, yet again, for religious rehabilitation. And I am yet to even say I want to follow the Iranian version of Islam and that I believe Shia is the correct version of Islam and that Ali is the real Caliph of Islam who, through a conspiracy by Abu Bakar, Omar and Osman, was denied his right to rule Medina as the First Caliph.

Why must we impose our belief on others? To argue that this is what the scholars have decided and this is their religious decree, like what Yusri did, does not solve the problem. To you your religion and to me, mine, as what the Quran would argue. You have your scholars and I have mine. You believe whatever religious decrees you want to believe in and leave me to believe in whatever decrees I wish to believe in.

I once had lunch at McDonalds in Washington DC with a renowned Muslim scholar. This man was one of the ‘brains’ behind the setting up of Malaysia’s International Islamic University (UIA). He ordered a beef burger and I ordered fish. He laughed and said he knows why I ordered fish and not beef.

“It is okay, brother Raja,” he said. “Beef is halal. Any meat other than khinzir (pork) slaughtered by People of the Book is halal for us to eat. But I have spent many years in Malaysia and I know Malaysian Muslims very well.”

“But how do you know it was a Christian or Jew who slaughtered the cow? It could have been someone not of the Book,” I replied.

“Why question so much? You should not always be suspecting and question everything. Why forbid what God has allowed?”

Anyway, being the Malaysian that I am, I still insisted on a fish burger.

After lunch, we went for Friday prayers and I was at a loss as to how to take my ablution in the very tiny washbasin without flooding the extremely dry washroom. I was about to take off my shoes so that I could wash my feet in the washbasin when my Saudi Arabian scholar friend stopped me and asked me to follow exactly what he does.

He then took a Kleenex tissue, damped it, and used it to wipe the top of his shoes. He handed me a tissue and I also did the same. We then took off our shoes and entered the mosque to pray.

In Malaysia they would send me for religious rehabilitation if I did that. In the US, Saudi Arabian scholars who have memorised the Quran by heart do that.

So, again, which scholar are you asking me to follow? And which Islamic ‘tradition’ are we talking about?

Over to you, my good friend Yusri of ABIM, MCKK and UIA. By whose standards?


http://malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29687:by-whose-standards&catid=20:no-holds-barred&Itemid=100087

[Eventine]

replace "Malaysia" with "Russia" and it will be the perfect neonazi skinhead rant.

You should try to look at it from his perspective. No one invited the Chinese or the Indians into Malaysia. The true culprit here is the British, who took over Malaysia and encouraged "coolie" workers to migrate, establishing a system by which they could be protected from the natives. It was coercive colonization, plain and simple, except instead of the Britons coming into settle, they invited the Chinese and Indians, instead. Now the Malays have to deal with the aftermath of what the British did. The entire land, which should've been theirs, now has to be shared with a minority (that is really almost a majority) with very different religious and cultural customs and which, due to past conflicts during the colonial and post-colonial years, has serious issues of trust with the Malay majority.

Of course, the descendants of the Chinese and the Indian workers aren't to blame, either. They didn't ask to be born in Malaysia, and it's not like their parent countries will accept them back. Their livelihoods are all based in Malaysia, and it might as well be their home. Yet, that does not change the fact that from the Malays' point of view, an alien population forced itself upon the natives and now reaps the benefits of what should've been Malay land.

Now you might argue that this is just fascist nativism, but in that part of the world, where land and resources are limited, it is a physical reality. Malays have nowhere else to go. They can't migrate to China or India. Yet, Chinese and Indians have migrated to their country without consent. They are justifiably pissed.

At the same time, however, the culprits have long disappeared. The British Empire is gone, and their descendants certainly aren't going to take responsibility for the mess their ancestors created.

Now all that's left are the victims.

[ggk]

The ‘Allah’ issue: A sociological approach




KUALA LUMPUR: The controversy over the High Court decision last week allowing a Catholic weekly to use the word “Allah” should be handled not only through legal proceedings but also sociologically, said a social scientist.

Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) Professor of Social Anthropology Prof Datuk Dr Shamsul Amri Baharuddin said outlandish remarks made by certain quarters could worsen the situation.

As it is a delicate issue, he said it must be addressed carefully as it could lead to a far-reaching implication on ethnic relations and threaten public order.
On Wednesday, the High Court granted the Home Ministry a stay of execution on the ruling allowing the Herald weekly magazine to use the word “Allah” in its Malay-language edition, pending the hearing of an appeal.

Dr Shamsul Amri, who is also UKM Director of the Institute of the Malay World and Civilisation, said the solution could be found by determining the aspects that should be analysed and to what extent all quarters can discuss the matter rationally.

The question boils down to why Malay-Muslims oppose the court decision openly or quietly.
This must be seen from the historical-social reality, said Shamsul Amri, pointing out Article 160 of the Federal Constitution, which states that a Malay is a person who “professes to be a Muslim, habitually speaks the Malay language, adheres to Malay customs.”

Based on this clause and other related provisions including Article 3 and Article 11 (4), the Federal and state governments administer, plan and implement various governance policies, touching on every aspect of the Malay-Muslim’s religious life.

”This has become Muslims’ psychic unity, which is difficult to erase, that is Islam is Malays, Malays are Islam,” he said, adding that to Malays the world “Allah” is everything, from the pillar of religion to faith, norms and values in their life.

”The label Malay-Muslim is most apt to categorise the Malays in the country but it is seldom used as it has been generally accepted that Malays are automatically Muslims,” he said.
This is different from ethnic Malays in Indonesia, Brunei, Singapore, southern Thailand, southern Philippines, Sri Lanka, South Africa and other destinations of the Malay diaspora where Malays are not automatically regarded as Muslims because of the difference in their social identity.

He said from a sociological standpoint, the Malays in this country were very sensitive on issues involving Islam as they felt that they owned Islam and the social proprietyship could not be questioned.

”As they feel that they own ‘Allah’, they feel that they know Allah and hold the rights to discuss it.
”They are born Islam or Muslim, live Islamic-Muslim life and die in Islam or as a Muslim.. This is the Malaysian historical-social reality,” he added.
The social reality complexity of Malays in leading the Islamic way of life becomes more difficult when Islam has been turned into a symbol and political ideology, he said, adding that it has brought political Islam into the global arena and further worsened the situation.

”For example, many Malay-Muslims do not know that the Palestinian struggle is a nationalist struggle, not an Islamic struggle, as not all Palestinians are Muslims,” he said.
Maybe this scenario explains why Malay-Muslims reacted negatively when a Catholic weekly was allowed to use the word “Allah” for “God” in its Malay publication. The weekly is published in four languages.

Before the High Court decision on Dec 31 and a stay of execution on the ruling on Wednesday, the Home Ministry barred the weekly from using of the word “Allah” for security reasons and to “prevent confusion among Muslims.”

UKM Institute of the Malay World and Civilization principal fellow Datuk Dr Denison Jayasooria feels that the issue can be resolved through discussions and dialogues among religious leaders and the communities with the Government acting as mediator.

He said the Government must solve the issue wisely through the 1Malaysia concept by focusing on the principles of recognition, nationhood and social justice.
”All is not lost but the Government has to be really sincere in solving the root problem and mediating the issues,” he said, by linking the issue to the success of the 1Malaysia concept in restoring confidence in the people, including minority groups.

He said freedom of expression should be manipulated for political gains as it would could worsen the conflict. -- Bernama

[ggk]

No comments. Denial strong.

Keep blaming others.

Im out of this thread.

yeah run.

preliminary investigation point out that the temple were mistakenly attacked. A Sikh temple do resemblance mosque in some places.


A mosque sliding door damaged by a drunk and............

oh how convenient..you jump up and down when one sikh temple stoned with 2 cubic tones of pebbles ...and then when one mosque was thrown with brick and excrement..you dismissed it just like that.


Maybe they thought the Batu Caves was also a Muslim place of worship and heck yes maybe all those Churches looked like Mosques. Keep on denying.

you ever visit sikh temple in malaysia? they do look like mosque.

summary: denial? this coming from you...oh god the irony.

[pg_ord]

you ever visit sikh temple in malaysia? they do look like mosque.

summary: denial? this coming from you...oh god the irony.
Yeah right when did muslims in malaysia start wearing turbans? Do women and men pray together in mosque in Malaysia?
Oh wait the mobs didn't know, may be they were not malaysians or never seen Malay muslims.:roll:

[ggk]

Yeah right when did muslims in malaysia start wearing turbans? Do women and men pray together in mosque in Malaysia?
Oh wait the mobs didn't know, may be they were not malaysians or never seen Malay muslims.:roll:

some malaysian muslims do wear turban and muslimah in malaysia do pray at the mosque together with men...and since you ask since when... the answer is its started 600 years ago.

its obvious you never see a malay muslim.

[LaoSexMachine]

You should try to look at it from his perspective. No one invited the Chinese or the Indians into Malaysia. The true culprit here is the British, who took over Malaysia and encouraged "coolie" workers to migrate, establishing a system by which they could be protected from the natives. It was coercive colonization, plain and simple, except instead of the Britons coming into settle, they invited the Chinese and Indians, instead. Now the Malays have to deal with the aftermath of what the British did. The entire land, which should've been theirs, now has to be shared with a minority (that is really almost a majority) with very different religious and cultural customs and which, due to past conflicts during the colonial and post-colonial years, has serious issues of trust with the Malay majority.

Of course, the descendants of the Chinese and the Indian workers aren't to blame, either. They didn't ask to be born in Malaysia, and it's not like their parent countries will accept them back. Their livelihoods are all based in Malaysia, and it might as well be their home. Yet, that does not change the fact that from the Malays' point of view, an alien population forced itself upon the natives and now reaps the benefits of what should've been Malay land.

Now you might argue that this is just fascist nativism, but in that part of the world, where land and resources are limited, it is a physical reality. Malays have nowhere else to go. They can't migrate to China or India. Yet, Chinese and Indians have migrated to their country without consent. They are justifiably pissed.

At the same time, however, the culprits have long disappeared. The British Empire is gone, and their descendants certainly aren't going to take responsibility for the mess their ancestors created.

Now all that's left are the victims.


Would the Malaysia be as posperous if the Chinese and Indians weren't living there? Tough question.

[ggk]

probably not..the irony

[Eventine]

Would the Malaysia be as posperous if the Chinese and Indians weren't living there? Tough question.

Prosperity is relative. Happiness is a mental state. Both can and do vary according to your perception of your own group in relation to others.

[ggk]

By Agence France-Presse, Updated: 1/18/2010
Malaysia minister says Borneo Christians can use 'Allah'

Malaysia's law minister said Monday that Christians in certain parts of the country can use the word "Allah", as the government grappled with a row over how non-Muslims should refer to God.



Malaysia's law minister said Monday that Christians in certain parts of the country can use the word "Allah", as the government grappled with a row over how non-Muslims should refer to God.

Eleven churches across the predominantly Muslim nation have been attacked in a spate of violence triggered by a court ruling last month that lifted a government ban on non-Muslims using "Allah" as a translation for "God".

About nine percent of Malaysia's 28 million people are Christian, including many from indigenous groups in the Borneo states of Sabah and Sarawak who speak the national language Malay.
Mohamed Nazri Abdul Aziz, a cabinet minister in charge of legal affairs, said there are state laws banning others from using "Allah" everywhere except federal territories including Kuala Lumpur, and the island state of Penang.

He said that Christians in Borneo could continue using the disputed word as "it has been the culture there", although it was off-limits when they came to peninsular Malaysia.
"There is a law against using 'Allah'. The Christians from Borneo cannot use the word 'Allah' when they come to the peninsula," he told reporters.
"There is a law against the use of the word 'Allah' except in Penang and in the Federal Territory," he added.

The Federal Territory is a collective of three regions -- the capital Kuala Lumpur, the administrative capital Putrajaya and the offshore financial centre of Labuan.
Nazri said Christians elsewhere should use the Malay word 'Tuhan', which is the generic translation for a deity, and reiterated the view that the use of 'Allah' could confuse Muslims and lead them to illegal conversions.

Ragunath Kesavan, president of the Malaysian Bar Council, said Nazri's comments illustrated the lack of uniform laws in Malaysia.
"It will be difficult to implement what Nazri proposes. I don't think the church wants that position. I think he is trying to accommodate certain parties and find a middle path to resolve the issue," he told AFP.

The attacks on the churches, which have been pelted with Molotov cocktails, paint and stones, have escalated ethnic tensions in Malaysia, where majority Muslim Malays live alongside ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities.

[sujithkochi]

You should try to look at it from his perspective. No one invited the Chinese or the Indians into Malaysia. The true culprit here is the British, who took over Malaysia and encouraged "coolie" workers to migrate, establishing a system by which they could be protected from the natives. It was coercive colonization, plain and simple, except instead of the Britons coming into settle, they invited the Chinese and Indians, instead. Now the Malays have to deal with the aftermath of what the British did. The entire land, which should've been theirs, now has to be shared with a minority (that is really almost a majority) with very different religious and cultural customs and which, due to past conflicts during the colonial and post-colonial years, has serious issues of trust with the Malay majority.

Of course, the descendants of the Chinese and the Indian workers aren't to blame, either. They didn't ask to be born in Malaysia, and it's not like their parent countries will accept them back. Their livelihoods are all based in Malaysia, and it might as well be their home. Yet, that does not change the fact that from the Malays' point of view, an alien population forced itself upon the natives and now reaps the benefits of what should've been Malay land.

Now you might argue that this is just fascist nativism, but in that part of the world, where land and resources are limited, it is a physical reality. Malays have nowhere else to go. They can't migrate to China or India. Yet, Chinese and Indians have migrated to their country without consent. They are justifiably pissed.

At the same time, however, the culprits have long disappeared. The British Empire is gone, and their descendants certainly aren't going to take responsibility for the mess their ancestors created.

Now all that's left are the victims.

Indians and Chinese who has been born and brought up there are as much citizens of Malaysia as the Malays. Malaysia is not just for Malays.

I believe you are talking abt ppl who has been there for generations and obviously it will make them irritated to be considered as not part of the country which they have been calling HOME

[pg_ord]

Indians and Chinese who has been born and brought up there are as much citizens of Malaysia as the Malays. Malaysia is not just for Malays.

I believe you are talking abt ppl who has been there for generations and obviously it will make them irritated to be considered as not part of the country which they have been calling HOME
He is talking from the perspective of bhumiputra and non bhumiputras. It would be like claiming India is first and foremost for Dravidian Hindus only, obviously an ideology Indians don't subscribe to.

[ggk]

He is talking from the perspective of bhumiputra and non bhumiputras. It would be like claiming India is first and foremost for Dravidian Hindus only, obviously an ideology Indians don't subscribe to.

you obviously have no idea about malaysia

[pg_ord]

you obviously have no idea about malaysia
Sir I don't see that concept of "bhumiputra" from the perspective of right or wrong for precisely that reason. ;)
BTW about your claim of Malay muslims wearing turbans like sikhs I would not believe that for a second, because there is huge difference in the way it looks. ;)

[sujithkochi]

the thing is, talk to the ppl of Indian origin there and u can see that they prefer to be identified as Malaysians and not Indians.

[ggk]

Sir I don't see that concept of "bhumiputra" from the perspective of right or wrong for precisely that reason. ;)
;)

you want to discuss about the affirmative action? this is totally unrelated to this thread topic. Bumiputra does not implies muslims only..it include all the son of the land which are not muslims such as Iban, Penan, Bidayuh, Jakun ..and a whole bunch of other tribes and races...


BTW about your claim of Malay muslims wearing turbans like sikhs I would not believe that for a second, because there is huge difference in the way it looks.

you need to grow up and eat more salt.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7030/serban.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2889/serbanmotor300x300.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6941/ayahandaperjuangan.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1830/serban2newnew.jpg
and lastly

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7047/serbanl.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/serbanl.jpg/)

[pg_ord]

you want to discuss about the affirmative action? this is totally unrelated to this thread topic. Bumiputra does not implies muslims only..it include all the son of the land which are not muslims such as Iban, Penan, Bidayuh, Jakun ..and a whole bunch of other tribes and races...

No as I said it is not something I see as right or wrong. ;)


you need to grow up and eat more salt.

You must be joking right? When did malay muslims start looking like Indian origin sikhs? :roll:
I mean they are two different races for crying out loud. :roll:

[ggk]

You must be joking right? When did malay muslims start looking like Indian origin sikhs? :roll:
I mean they are two different races for crying out loud. :roll:

you should learn more about the origin of sikh religion and the position of muhammad in their holy book...and the relation betweeen sikhism and islam.

[pg_ord]

you should learn more about the origin of sikh religion and the position of muhammad in their holy book...and the relation betweeen sikhism and islam.
I know what is there to know about Sikhism. I do visit a Gurdwara frequently (great food p-)).
There is a reason why Punjab was divided in to two during partition of India. ;)

[ggk]

then do you admit that it was possible the attack might be a mistake?




holy look at that ...7997
-------/
------/
-----/
----/
---/
--/
<

your post bellow doesnt make any sense. The issue are about mistaken identity... muslim and sikh have very a good relation in malaysia..

sorry sujit i cant reply ..the 7997 are to awesome....haha

[pg_ord]

then do you admit that it was possible the attack might be a mistake?
Nope on the contrary. Punjabi Muslims don't really get along well Punjabi Sikhs when it comes to religion. Do read up about history between Sikhs and Muslims. ;)

[sujithkochi]

then do you admit that it was possible the attack might be a mistake?




holy look at that ...7997
-------/
------/
-----/
----/
---/
--/
<

your post bellow doesnt make any sense. The issue are about mistaken identity... muslim and sikh have very a good relation in malaysia..

I think i read somewhere that this gurdwara was also intially a party to this 'Allah' case.

So might not be entirely unrelated

[Eventine]

Indians and Chinese who has been born and brought up there are as much citizens of Malaysia as the Malays. Malaysia is not just for Malays.

I believe you are talking abt ppl who has been there for generations and obviously it will make them irritated to be considered as not part of the country which they have been calling HOME

A fair point, but let me see if you're consistent.

A hundred years from now, China will have colonized Xinjiang and Tibet with enough Han Chinese to significantly change the demographics of each region (it's already happened in Xinjiang). Let's say at this point, China collapses for some reason. The native Tibetans and Uyghurs jump for joy as their homelands are liberated... Except for the fact that there is now a majority of Han Chinese living on it.

The Han Chinese control the economy, the civil institutions, and the land. They are rich; the natives are poor. They have no reason to assimilate, and instead establish social and commercial networks with their brethren back in China (proper). For this reason, they also refuse to adopt the language of the natives, but instead create rich enclaves based on Mandarin, Chinese culture, etc., while the original natives live in poverty.

The country is effectively divided. If the natives push too hard, the Chinese will petition for self-determination. Their numbers will ensure that they make off with the majority of Tibet and Xinjiang, leaving the natives with a fraction of what they once had. If the natives do not push, then the Chinese will continue to control the country through their system of economic and political connections.

How would you feel, in this situation?

Would you support the Chinese, because hey, they were born in Tibet and Xinjiang so it's just as much theirs as it's the original natives'?

If not, then you are a hypocrite, because this is analogous to the situation in Malaysia, except of course, it was the British doing the colonizing - using Chinese and Indians as their proxies.

[pg_ord]

Would you support the Chinese, because hey, they were born in Tibet and Xinjiang so it's just as much theirs as it's the original natives'?

If not, then you are a hypocrite, because this is analogous to the situation in Malaysia, except of course, it was the British doing the colonizing - using Chinese and Indians as their proxies.
Wow!! hold on there before starting to draw parallels here. This is pure chicom propaganda.
Both the CCP and the Han population *are* Han. You cannot separate Han population from CCP.
Immigrant Chinese and the Indian population are different from the Brits, who have left. Did CCP leave tibet? so don't even bother comparing the two.

[ggk]

Wow!! hold on there before starting to draw parallels here. This is pure chicom propaganda.
Both the CCP and the Han population *are* Han. You cannot separate Han population from CCP.
Immigrant Chinese and the Indian population are different from the Brits, who have left. Did CCP leave tibet? so don't even bother comparing the two.

oh God. .......... you have a problem here...you cant comprehend his analogy... i ve been wondering why some of your reply are off the mark.

[sujithkochi]

oh God. .......... you have a problem here...you

slowly inching forward for that magic figure :)

[Eventine]

Wow!! hold on there before starting to draw parallels here. This is pure chicom propaganda.
Both the CCP and the Han population *are* Han. You cannot separate Han population from CCP.
Immigrant Chinese and the Indian population are different from the Brits, who have left. Did CCP leave tibet? so don't even bother comparing the two.

So what if they're both Han? From the Malays' perspective, the Chinese, the Indians, and the British are all the same - foreign colonizers. The ancestors of the Chinese and the Indian migrants were British collaborators (in the sense that they took advantage of the situation to migrate to Malaysia in pursuit of the opportunities available there), which makes them little different than the Han colonists today.

[sujithkochi]

So what if they're both Han? From the Malays' perspective, the Chinese, the Indians, and the British are all the same - foreign colonizers. The ancestors of the Chinese and the Indian migrants were British collaborators (in the sense that they took advantage of the situation to migrate to Malaysia in pursuit of the opportunities available there), which makes them little different than the Han colonists today.

Dear, the Indians were taken to WORK in plantations and they are still poor

So tell me how they took advantage of the country or migrated to pursue opportunities

[pg_ord]

So what if they're both Han? From the Malays' perspective, the Chinese, the Indians, and the British are all the same - foreign colonizers. The ancestors of the Chinese and the Indian migrants were British collaborators, which makes them little different than the Han colonists today.
I am just saying why can't evaluate it independently why do we have to bring in what China did to tibetans in this issue? Yeah right you only look from only malay's perspective that is the problem here. This is ethnocentric outlook that you have is not at all good. You are peddling racism here using the garb of victimhood. Typical of Han chinese. :roll:

ggk here is my push towards the magic number. p-)

[sujithkochi]

A fair point, but let me see if you're consistent.

A hundred years from now, China will have colonized Xinjiang and Tibet with enough Han Chinese to significantly change the demographics of each region (it's already happened in Xinjiang). Let's say at this point, China collapses for some reason. The native Tibetans and Uyghurs jump for joy as their homelands are liberated... Except for the fact that there is now a majority of Han Chinese living on it.

The Han Chinese control the economy, the civil institutions, and the land. They are rich; the natives are poor. They have no reason to assimilate, and instead establish social and commercial networks with their brethren back in China (proper). For this reason, they also refuse to adopt the language of the natives, but instead create rich enclaves based on Mandarin, Chinese culture, etc., while the original natives live in poverty.

The country is effectively divided. If the natives push too hard, the Chinese will petition for self-determination. Their numbers will ensure that they make off with the majority of Tibet and Xinjiang, leaving the natives with a fraction of what they once had. If the natives do not push, then the Chinese will continue to control the country through their system of economic and political connections.

How would you feel, in this situation?

Would you support the Chinese, because hey, they were born in Tibet and Xinjiang so it's just as much theirs as it's the original natives'?

If not, then you are a hypocrite, because this is analogous to the situation in Malaysia, except of course, it was the British doing the colonizing - using Chinese and Indians as their proxies.

major flaw in ur comparison is that the indians and chinese are a minority in malaysia

[Eventine]

Dear, the Indians were taken to WORK in plantations and they are still poor

So tell me how they took advantage of the country or migrated to pursue opportunities

All the migrants worked; some became richer than others. The point is that they took advantage of the Malays' inability to say "no." That's what makes them collaborators.

[Eventine]

I am just saying why can't evaluate it independently why do we have to bring in what China did to tibetans in this issue? Yeah right you only look from only malay's perspective that is the problem here. This is ethnocentric outlook that you have is not at all good. You are peddling racism here using the garb of victimhood. Typical of Han chinese. :roll:

ggk here is my push towards the magic number. p-)

Your failure to see the parallel is more "racist" than any hypothetical I raised. Why did I bring up the Tibetans? Simple, because I know you have a completely different emotional profile towards them than you do the Malays, who are, after all, Muslims. This is how I test your consistency, and you have failed my test.

[ggk]

damn you for destroying the magic number..

back to the OFF topic... with Malay 50.4%, Chinese 23.7%, indigenous 11%, Indian 7.1%, others 7.8%.. the chinese ethnic are significant..especially since they hold the economy tightly.

anyway the analogy are simple:

The malay and the indigenious are the natives... The chinese and small number of indian immigrant are not.

or as a simple as it sound, JBH22 quoted here, although replying a different topic yet so damn spot on on this matter that we discuss.




http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by JBH22 http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4622632#post4622632)
if they love their culture and religion so much then why bother to immigrate in a western country.


replace the word western with Malaysia the word immigrate with stay

[pg_ord]

Your failure to see the parallel is more "racist" than any hypothetical I raised. Why did I bring up the Tibetans? Simple, because I know you have a completely different emotional profile towards them than you do the Malays, who are, after all, Muslims. This is how I test your consistency, and you have failed my test.
For the record events in tibet cannot be washed away by comparing them to events in malaysia. Indians and Chinese did not slaughter local malays. Hans did slaughter the locals though. Nice try. I let you know how bigoted you were, you then got your knickers in a twist and called me a muslim hater. I will deny that and move on. ;)

edit: come on ggk, 8000 coming up... redeem yourself with a great post in a Malaysia thread. p-)

[ggk]

For the record events in tibet cannot be washed away by comparing them to events in malaysia. Indians and Chinese did not slaughter local malays. Hans did slaughter the locals though. Nice try. I let you know how bigoted you were, you then got your knickers in a twist and called me a muslim hater. I will deny that and move on. ;)

edit: come on ggk, 8000 coming up... redeem yourself with a great post in a Malaysia thread. p-)

like i said your lack of knowledge about this country makes you unqualified to reply on this matter.

i already proof you wrong about the turban... theres no shame in admiting mistake.
















http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/8636/ggkf.jpg

[Eventine]

For the record events in tibet cannot be washed away by comparing them to events in malaysia. Indians and Chinese did not slaughter local malays. Hans did slaughter the locals though. Nice try. I let you know how bigoted you were, you then got your knickers in a twist and called me a muslim hater. I will deny that and move on. ;)

edit: come on ggk, 8000 coming up... redeem yourself with a great post in a Malaysia thread. p-)

Except someone did slaughter the native Malays - the British government and its soldiers. The colonists cooperated with the British, which is the same as in Tibet and Xinjiang, where it's the Chinese government and its soldiers doing the slaughtering.

You accuse me of being a bigot and a racist, and is yet completely oblivious to the fact that the sole basis of your argument is an equation drawn between "Han" government and "Han" colonist. Why are you so racist, pg_ord, that you would argue that Han Chinese in Tibet are blameworthy solely because they are Han, while Indian and Chinese colonists in Malaysia are blameless simply because they were not of the same ethnicity as the government whose policies they cooperated with, and which benefited them?

Where's the consistency? If the Chinese government had used Japanese colonists instead of Han Chinese, would that have made it okay afterwards? Is that what you're saying?

The sad part about all this is that now you're accusing me of whitewashing the Tibetan issue, when I was one of the few posters in this thread who sympathized with the Malays.

Does that not, logically, imply that I also sympathize with the Tibetans?

Anyways, your bias is very amusing, and makes me realize just how empty an insult from you really is.

[sisqo]

US threatens sanctions over missing jets and church attacks (http://freemalaysiatoday.com/english/?p=7902)

Tue, Jan 19, 2010


SHAH ALAM: The United States may slap economic sanctions if the Umno-led Barisan Nasional government fails to resolve two key issues considered crucial by the international community, according to diplomatic sources.
The latest edition of the Pakatan Rakyat weekly, Suara Keadilan, quoting the sources as saying that the administration of President Barrack Obama (picture) is demanding a detailed explanation from Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak’s government on the two missing F-5E jet engines and the series of arson attacks on churches and other places of worship over the last two weeks.
It also quoted Wisma Putra sources as saying if Najib viewed these issues lightly then Washington could slap economic sanctions on Malaysia.
The United States is Malaysia’s number one trading partner and in recent years has been ranked among the top three foreign investors. In 2008, it was the second largest investor, with investments totalling RM8.7 billion.
Any economic sanction will have a painful effect on the country, which is already suffering from a large deficit.
Wisma Putra sources said Washington’s diplomatic note reflects the seriousness of the Obama administration, which until now had only voiced their objections with statements.
“After this, if the government still dilly-dallies and takes no serious move to resolve the issues, heavier pressure will be instituted, including economic sanctions,” said one source.
In an SMS revert to Suara Keadilan, the US embassy’s media officer, Tina Malone, said Washington took a serious view of media reports of the missing jet engines, which were manufactured in the US.
“The US Government views seriously reports of the missing F-5E jet engines supplied to Malaysia,” said the SMS.
“The US Government has asked the Malaysian Government to provide a comprehensive report in relation to investigations into the matter.”
One of the Wisma Putra sources also confirmed that Waashington had sent a diplomatic note to the Malaysian Government over the petrol bomb attacks and vandalism on Christian churches.
America’s fear was underscored by its Commissioner for International Religious Freedom, Leonard Leo, who said: “How the Malaysian leadership deals with this issue will determine the political and economic future of the country.”


http://freemalaysiatoday.com/english/?p=7902

Sympathize for the Malays in Malaya who are tolerant and not ignorant or draconian as some whose majority could be found in the current Regime ruling Malaysia and their supporters. Sympathize for the good Malay Muslims who are unfortunately being drag into the same camp because of some bad apples.

Articles from local newspapers stated that the Allah ban does not and will never be applied to Sabah and Sarawak as Christians there have been using the word Allah to refer to their god for 300 over so years. Sorry local newspapers do not have online websites and links to refer to on the World Wide Web.

And have no Malaysians on this forum bother to question how & why Najis and Co. current behaviours and actions are contrary to the 1Malaysia concept!

[ggk]

Malaya & Borneo is two different countries. The muslims in Borneo have no problem with other faiths using the word Allah which is a language and predates Islam (other faiths in "Malaysia" Borneo have been using the word Allah even before the federation of Malaysia was founded on Sept 16 1963 and not AUG 31 1957.) Talk all you want to defend the government actions on trying to ban the word, is it the Malayan Muslims who started making it an issue. The fact that Mahathir can go on saying that the government do not have to respect or listen to the court of law just shows how much of a dictatorship "1Malaysia" really is. The Ultra - Nationalist government of Malaysia is showing its true colors.

P.S. Are Malayan Muslims so stupid and ignorant that they can get confused by the fact that some other faith uses a language to refer to their god?? You don't even have to be Malaysian to see how stupid that excuse is. I don't live in Malaysia proper, I live in one of Malaya's two colonies which is on the verge of mass rebellion. The federals are not giving us Borneons any more reasons to want to be "Malaysian". F*CK your intolerance and ultra nationalistic ideology.

Go look for your own proof, seeing how some of you UMNO/BN kissers are so blind towards their ultra nationalist ideology. Our Borneon culture is nothing like your Malayan hatred. 5% of the Borneon politicians that have been bought over do not represent the will of the Borneon people, remember that in your argument.

Rant over. Let the infractions come


oh so you think now you are 14 you think can rant using the F word huh?.. AUG 31 1957 is the independant day lah budak.... Sept 16 1963 is the federation day.... download that into you childish brain. Or better go and study hard at school, then when you finish go to the university...then when you finish you come back here.




oh? since when Iban started calling their God Allah?


If sitting in front of your computer insinuating that I'm 14 makes you feel better about yourself and sleep better, go ahead. You've done nothing but proven to us all how much of a good job the Malayan propaganda machine have made the Malayan Malay race so ignorant and intolerant. 31st August 1957 was the independence day for the FEDERATION OF MALAYA which to my knowledge do not exist anymore, it was reformed into the federation of MALAYSIA with the inclusion of the independent countries of Singapore, Sarawak and North Borneo(Sabah) which by the way is so far off what Tunku Abdul Rahman had envision(Tun Hussein and Mahathir corrupted that ideal). Maybe you should go back to school huh?? If your kind can go around saying KETUANAN MELAYU, Cina Yahudi, Orang India patut bersyukur di Malaya, why can't you take your own medicine? Your Iban statement just shows how little you know about "Malaysia" and not Malaya.

Why preety up words with slogans like 1Malaysia when what your kind really mean is 1Melayu. Maybe you don't know this but the Malayan Malays (Not Bruneian Malays) are a minority in "Malaysia" Borneo, you want to mess up your own country go ahead. Don't drag the people of Borneo down with you. (Maybe if them Melayu grew brains in their heads instead of their @$$ this wouldn't be such an issue) rofl


because you are fourteen this year, if your birthday still far thats mean you are still 13...



so which part of Singapore, SABAH AND SARAWAK JOINING the federation (and let me emphasize JOINING) you didnt understand boy? ...so if lets say today Timbuktu want to join the Malaysia Federation..do we have to push forwads our independent days date to 2010? Thats so funny kid.



1 malaysia really means one malaysia, you are racist.



confirmed, tiny racist school boy.. what do they teach to kids these day.

............guess what ? you are frakking lucky,...im going to debate with you about this stupid Independent day issue. (edit).


Why don't you just finish it off by saying why don't we celebrate the Malayan Union as well or when the British came over and so forth and so forth, we joined under the INVITATION of Tunku Abdul Rahman and as equal entities.(none of us beg the Malayan Union to take us in) Go look at other countries with the term Federation in it, and you can see that Malaysia is a "Federation" only on paper. That's your Malayan problem, no respect for the rest of your so called federation partners (We're all just minion states doing Putrajaya's bidding). Look at how you said it. Like your kind is doing us all a favor by letting us "join" the almighty federation of Malaya:roll:, we wouldn't have if Malaya didn't ask us OH so nicely with empty promises. Singapore left after 2 years already knowing things ain't gonna go the way it was suppose to be, Sabah and Sarawak would have left not long after if Sabah's entire government ministry except for one person (the only one that supported the malay nationalist) wasn't perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash just as they were going to negotiate the terms of leaving and Sarawak's government wasn't toppled and replaced by an emergency ruled government by the federals. You may be learned about Malaya's history, but I'm learned about my OWN country's political history. Fact is we are two different countries and entities, 40 over years have gone by and you are still trying to impose your draconian, intolerant ideology upon us. Wake up!! I don't care if you have natiolistic pride for Malaya, your choice and your land. But don't sound like a tape recorder spewing government propaganda lines, excuses and mentality.

One more thing, ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH. You can't stop anyone from using any word, you and your beloved government get real.


really? please show me historical evidence that Tunku invite Sabah and Sarawak...



as oppose to gold plated plaque?



no it is not.... why i dont remember anyone being a slave over there...all my friends from the borneo are rich people surely if what you implies are right... they should be poor by now.



The proposal for Malaysia was oppossed by the Philippines as they asserted a claim over Sabah... so what? you really eager want Sabah to join Philipines? (by the way you were not even born yet) We fought alongside with Sabahan a secrets war againts the philipines to protect Sabah. That is not empty promise that is TRUST.

A joint- Anglo-Malayan commission headed by a former of the bank of England, Lord Cobbold, visited sabah and Sarawakin 1962 and reported that the majority of the states favoured the formation of Malaysia.

However, continued Philippine and Indonesian opposition led to the sending of a United nations mission to Borneo in 1963, which also reported that the public opinion was in favour of joining Malaysia.

there you go.



Unlike Sabah and Sarawak, singapore In 1955 was granted internal autonomy under the Rendel Constitution and David Marshall was appointed the first Chief Minister. Sabah and Sarawak dont... either you join the Federation or you get INVADED by either Indonesia or Philipines.



ah hahaha Masyaallah... conspiracy theory at its peak.



looks like you will fail your PMR kid.



Nope.



no we did not ..last time i check you guys have a different sets of election...Sabahans and Sarawakian decided their own fate...not the people of Semenanjung.



ah when that happen kid? may i remind you not to spew around James Bond plot here too okay..."perished in a "mysterious & convienient" plane crash " haha



you unknowingly just converted to islam Kid...call me to circumsized okay.


you put a fellow sabahan mp.net member like me to shame

do some research before posting insulting content on international forum.this is no lyn and people here are going to use your post as basis of debate


go back to your hole kid...we malaysian dont want racist like you anyway.
there you go... and where is that mighty debate i expected from you?

Im still waiting for your reply sisqo...you are not a coward are you? and by the way ..i dont know where that piece of crap news you got from but..it is so outdated... there will be no sanction over this theft of ultra stealth F-5 jet engine...and by the frakking way your post is OFF TOPIC and derailing this thread.

[sisqo]

You already proven to me that you're 6 years old, if you're not 6 then your birthday haven't arrive yet and you're 5. Jangan bikin malu orang Melayu dan Orang Islam di Malaysia lagi lah buduh. Makan terlampau banyak babi mungkin, none of my Muslim friends even agree with your views and even loathe it. You want prove stop using links, to you the WWW. is the only credible source in the whole world. (Keluar dari tempurung lah) Come to Sabah and do your own research in our Sabah Archives, talk to the older generation in Sabah who was actually there when it happened especially those who was involve in it all. If you really want to be proven right. You claim to know everything when you know nothing, the SIB church is majority IBAN and they use ALLAH even before your kind knew what nationhood is and definitely before the racist, draconian regime of Malaysia was born.

This world would be a better place without individuals like yourself, so do us all a favor *hint* *hint*. If you don't like this, don't reply then. Last I check in a democracy we have a right to voice our views, and if you don't agree with a certain view then ignore it. Unless of course I'm assuming, you think that in Malaysia the "democracy" is different.

To the Sabahans in this forum, I respect your views on this matter but please as any Sabahans who love their country. Research on the 20 point agreement (The terms and conditions that we Sabahans gave to Malaya to join their so call fiasco, that they asked us to not the other way around) and then look for our current Sabah's constitution, and see if you feel like weeping for our land. The Malaysian government wants the younger Sabah generations to be as ignorant as possible about their land's political history, lest we forget we must navigate thru the heavily government censored, sanctioned news and information and thrive to find out the truth.

Statistics don't lie, Sabah is the 3rd poorest state in Malaysia.(5% rich, 20% Upper middle class, 40% hard core poor and the rest middle class to poor does not make it a rich place) I know alot of rich people as well who are Sabahans. But Sabah is not Kota Kinabalu and the majority of Sabahans especially the indigenous Sabahans are dirt poor and do not have a chance in life to make it right for themselves(Thanks to Malaya's awesome policies).

Without the 20 point agreement, the Colbot commission would have been a different outcome. Which Malaya have failed to uphold, the sentiment here is majority same. We would have fought the invaders in that case when the Philipines or even Indonesia(Konfrotasi) attacked than be handed over like lambs to the slaughter to some Malays across the ocean. Our ancestors fought for their sovereignty against the North Borneo Trading Company, British, Japanese and now another new colonizing power took over (Malaya). What makes you think Sabahans wouldn't do the same now? You are a Malayan, of course you would see it the way you see it. I understand that. I don't think you will be any different from me if it was the other way around and Us Borneons rule over Malaya and have a final say in everything, not to mention taking all of Malaya's resources to be use in Borneo. Think about it for a second if you still have a brain and its not just UMNO propaganda cassette looping. See how things are in reality and not just on "official" paper, I can "officially" write that Congo is a peaceful nation and the resources are being used to improve the lives of its people but it still don't mean that's how it really is in reality.

Are you blind? The article also relates to the church burnings/attacks. If you bothered to read it.

[hulaku]

you should learn more about the origin of sikh religion and the position of muhammad in their holy book...and the relation betweeen sikhism and islam.

Being part Sikh myself I would love to comment on this but that would be seriously OT.

[ggk]

You already proven to me that you're 6 years old, if you're not 6 then your birthday haven't arrive yet and you're 5. Jangan bikin malu orang Melayu dan Orang Islam di Malaysia lagi lah buduh. Makan terlampau banyak babi mungkin, none of my Muslim friends even agree with your views and even loathe it.


if you want to call me 'pig eating idiot' you better be a man and write it in english you worthless coward.


You want prove stop using links, to you the WWW. is the only credible source in the whole world. (Keluar dari tempurung lah) Come to Sabah and do your own research in our Sabah Archives, talk to the older generation in Sabah who was actually there when it happened especially those who was involve in it all.

like who? give me some name... oh boy you just have no idea how many time and years i live and stay there. Come clean and point me any name.



If you really want to be proven right. You claim to know everything when you know nothing, the SIB church is majority IBAN and they use ALLAH even before your kind knew what nationhood is and definitely before the racist, draconian regime of Malaysia was born.

which is BS. Show me the exact date when the first BIBLE use Allah in Sabah?


This world would be a better place without individuals like yourself, so do us all a favor *hint* *hint*. If you don't like this, don't reply then. Last I check in a democracy we have a right to voice our views, and if you don't agree with a certain view then ignore it. Unless of course I'm assuming, you think that in Malaysia the "democracy" is different.

im not the one who run away everytime a challenge are thrown. And how am i going to ignore a liar? Democracy are not the right medium to lies about history and expect no one to challenge it.


To the Sabahans in this forum, I respect your views on this matter but please as any Sabahans who love their country.

obviously you did not.


Research on the 20 point agreement (The terms and conditions that we Sabahans gave to Malaya to join their so call fiasco, that they asked us to not the other way around) and then look for our current Sabah's constitution, and see if you feel like weeping for our land.

which part of that agreement you say are pillaging your so called land? and please show us the dreaded sabah constitution.


The Malaysian government wants the younger Sabah generations to be as ignorant as possible about their land's political history, lest we forget we must navigate thru the heavily government censored, sanctioned news and information and thrive to find out the truth.

Sabah, Sarawak and the rest of the States generation are the children of malaysia... we all know our history well..YOUR version are a lies.


Statistics don't lie, Sabah is the 3rd poorest state in Malaysia.(5% rich, 20% Upper middle class, 40% hard core poor and the rest middle class to poor does not make it a rich place) I know alot of rich people as well who are Sabahans. But Sabah is not Kota Kinabalu and the majority of Sabahans especially the indigenous Sabahans are dirt poor and do not have a chance in life to make it right for themselves(Thanks to Malaya's awesome policies).

state the source of that crap you post.


Without the 20 point agreement, the Colbot commission would have been a different outcome. Which Malaya have failed to uphold, the sentiment here is majority same. We would have fought the invaders in that case when the Philipines or even Indonesia(Konfrotasi) attacked than be handed over like lambs to the slaughter to some Malays across the ocean.

so ignorant,......... we all defended Sabah and Sarawak because it is Malaysia. Who is your so called 'WE' anyway? because its your ancestor that agree to joined..obviously your 'WE' is just a fairy tale created by your beloved gay Anwar Ibrahim to incite hate between West and East Malaysia. Naive like you take the bait and become the loser.


Our ancestors fought for their sovereignty against the North Borneo Trading Company, British, Japanese and now another new colonizing power took over (Malaya).

like everyone else and this is clearly writen and acknowledge in the history book....ane like everyone else at that time we failed and become the colony of british.


What makes you think Sabahans wouldn't do the same now?

for what? why would you want to do it. Sabah are never a colony of Malaya. Sabah and sarawak were at the same level with the rest of the states, receiving about the same amount of fund and budget..infact more.


You are a Malayan, of course you would see it the way you see it.

I am a MALAYSIAN kid.


I understand that. I don't think you will be any different from me if it was the other way around and Us Borneons rule over Malaya and have a final say in everything, not to mention taking all of Malaya's resources to be use in Borneo.

you have time machine to do that? Back to the past and invade Malaya? Even if you can you should know you cant, no one can during those time. If you do not have time machine this airy fairy melodramatic BS of yours are moot.


Think about it for a second if you still have a brain and its not just UMNO propaganda cassette looping.

as oppose to that gay anwar ibrahim fart that you are smoking?


See how things are in reality and not just on "official" paper, I can "officially" write that Congo is a peaceful nation and the resources are being used to improve the lives of its people but it still don't mean that's how it really is in reality.

Let me give you reality. Untill now you still cant show us the exact scientific reason and proof that The Rulling Government enslaving your "North Borneo" people (which is laughable because its not), pillaging its resource, and worst bullying a fellow MALAYSIAN.



Are you blind? The article also relates to the church burnings/attacks. If you bothered to read it.


one sentence which actually really unrelated to the theft.

[LaoSexMachine]

Prosperity is relative. Happiness is a mental state. Both can and do vary according to your perception of your own group in relation to others.

Nice round about answer that didn't give an answer.

[sisqo]

This is most interesting...!


From Turkey’s Daily News:
The trouble with Islamo-tribalism

Tuesday, January 12, 2010
Mustafa AKYOL
Nasty things are happening in Malaysia. Nine Christian churches have been vandalized or burnt just over the last weekend. Thank God, nobody has been hurt, yet, but the terror unleashed is terrifying enough for the Christian minority of this overwhelmingly Muslim nation.
Also thank God that the attacks were the work of a fanatic minority among Malaysian Muslims, or Malays. Many others, including government spokesmen, denounced the barbarism. Some volunteers from Muslim nongovernmental organizations have even begun patrolling churches to protect them from possible future attacks. This is, of course, commendable.
Yet still, I think that Malays should deal not just with the radical symptoms of the problem. They should also deal with the problem itself.
A copyright of God?
The problem itself is a “copyright issue,” as Marina Mahathir, a Malay commentator, rightly put it. Christians in the country have been using the word “Allah” to refer to God in their services and publications, whereas the Malays believe that they have a monopoly on it. Hence the Muslim-dominated government recently put a ban on non-Muslims using the term. Yet last month the High Court overturned the ban. And hell broke lose.
As a Turkish Muslim, I strongly disagree with my Malaysian coreligionists who disagree with the Christians. The word “Allah” simply means “The God” in Arabic, and Arab Christians have been using it for centuries without any trouble. In Turkey, too, Bibles published by Turkish Christians used to have the term “Allah” until the recent “modernization” in their discourse. The change is their choice, and none of our business.
Most Muslims, in other words, don’t have a problem with hearing the word “Allah” from non-Muslim theists. And this is how it should be, because the Koran repeatedly says that Muslims worship the same God with Jews and Christians. "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you,” a verse orders Muslims to tell these fellow monotheists. “Our God and your God is one."
Whence, then, comes the Malay possessiveness of Allah?
The Malaysian government argues that making Allah synonymous with God may “confuse Muslims and ultimately mislead them into converting to Christianity.” Wow, what a great sign of self-confidence. Why don’t they rather think, one wonders, that the same thing might ultimately “mislead” Christians into converting to Islam.
Besides the obvious immaturity, what is really disturbing to me here is how Allah, the “Lord of mankind” according to the Koran, is reduced to something like a tribal deity.
This was all too obvious in the slogan of the protesters at the mosques of Kuala Lumpur: "Allah,” they said, “is only for us."
But who do you think you are, one should ask. Who gives you the authority to claim that the name of God of all men is your private property?
The answer, as you can guess, lies not in theology but politics. As a piece published in these pages yesterday (Gwynne Dyer, "In the Name of Allah") explained well, the Muslim Malays, despite making up 60 percent of Malaysia, “feel perpetually insecure.” They worry that if their numbers in population decrease so will their dominant role in the country.
Hence comes Malaysia’s tyrannical bans on apostasy from Islam, limitations on mixed marriages, and the current obsession with the Christians’ language. The main intention behind these is the preservation of the dominance, and the “purity,” of a certain political community – say, a big tribe. (The medieval Islamic ban an apostasy, which has no basis in the Koran, was similarly a product of political motives.)
But pursuing the perceived interests of a political community that happens to be Muslim, is not the same thing with upholding the religious values that God has bestowed on Muslims.
The difference between the two is subtle but crucial. It is the difference between serving God, and making God serve us.
Jihad, victory and empire
The latter motivation, I suspect, is imperative in the makeup of the self-righteous, authoritarian and violent movements in the contemporary Muslim world. These movements always strive for some victory, some political dominance, which will elevate their very selves above all other men.
The words of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the 23-year-old Nigerian who tried to blow up a passenger airliner near Detroit two weeks ago, are quite telling. “I imagine how the great jihad will take place,” he reportedly said, “how the Muslims will win ... and rule the whole world, and establish the greatest empire once again!!!”
The yearning for glory here is not too different from what a revolutionary communist expects from the dictatorship of the proletariat, or what a chauvinist expects from an imperialist agenda that will make his nation the master of the world.
The Muslim thing to do, however, is to be more humble, modest and openhearted. The Koran tells Muslims that they are supposed to be “the best community that has been raised up for mankind.” Yet they really can’t serve that purpose if they begin by despising the rest of mankind, and claiming an ownership of God.
And Malaysia can’t really uphold the values of Islam through Islamo-tribalism.


Can any Turkish members on MP.net confirm this article as this was forwarded to me thru email by a Muslim friend of mine.

[ggk]

oi you have insult me bya calling pig eating idiot...then you didnt even bother to reply.... to make it worst you take pot shot and fart another piece of crap and run away again.

[pg_ord]

Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is.

Mahatma Gandhi
111111111111111111111111

[ggk]

Eight men arrested in connection with church fire
(latest)


2010/01/20

KUALA LUMPUR: Police have arrested eight men, among them two brothers and their uncle, in connection with the arson attack at the Metro Tabernacle Church in Desa Melawati on Jan 8.
All of them, aged between 21 and 26 years, were held at several locations in the Klang Valley between yesterday afternoon and this morning, said Bukit Aman CID director Datuk Seri Mohd Bakri Mohd Zinin said today.

"They are being remanded for seven days from today to help in the investigation into the case under Section 436 of the Penal Code which carries a maximum jail term of 20 years upon conviction," he told reporters at the Kuala Lumpur police headquarters, here.

Section 436 provides for the jail term and a fine for causing mischief by fire or explosive substance with intent to destroy any building.

Mohd Bakri said the first suspect, a 25-year-old despatch rider, was arrested at 3.30pm yesterday at the Kuala Lumpur Hospital when seeking treatment for burns on his chest and hands.

His arrest led to the arrests of the seven others at various locations in the Ampang area, he said.

One of them is the despatch rider's younger brother, aged 24, and another is their uncle, aged 26, while the rest are their friends, he added.

He also said that the younger brother of the despatch rider had also suffered burns, on his left hand, apparently from the arson attack.

All the eight suspects held jobs with private firms, employed in various positions such despatch rider, clerk and office assistant.

Mohd Bakri said police were preparing to have them prosecuted and believed the case of the arson attack at the Metro Tabernacle Church had been solved.

The police had set up a special investigation team following the arson attack at the Metro Tabernacle Church and several other churches in the Klang Valley.

The attacks had come in the wake of a High Court ruling on Dec 31 allowing the Catholic weekly magazine, Herald, to use of the word "Allah" (God) in its publications. The court subsequently allowed a stay of execution pending an appeal against the decision by the Home Ministry.

Mohd Bakri said Bukit Aman police had worked with Kuala Lumpur police in solving the Metro Tabernacle Church arson attack case and added that the police did not find any link between those arrested and the arson attacks on other churches in the Klang Valley.

"We ask the people to remain calm and allow the police to conduct their investigation to enable us to send our papers to the attorney-general for subsequent action.

"Do not attempt to link the people arrested to the arson attacks on the other churches," he said.


Mohd Bakri also advised the people not to resort to any action which could undermine peace and order. - Bernama

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

there will be more arrest soon

[ggk]

By Agence France-Presse, Updated: 1/21/2010
Two Muslim prayer halls attacked in Malaysia: police

Two Muslim prayer halls in Malaysia were set on fire Thursday, police said, following a spate of violence against churches triggered by a row over the use of the word "Allah".



Two Muslim prayer halls in Malaysia were set on fire Thursday, police said, following a spate of violence against churches triggered by a row over the use of the word "Allah".
Eleven churches across the mainly Muslim nation have been pelted with Molotov cocktails, stones and paint in recent weeks, in attacks that have escalated ethnic tensions.

The two Muslim prayer halls, both in Muar in the southern state of Johor, suffered only minor fire damage said the town's deputy police chief Lee Choon Guan.
In the first incident, an arsonist threw diesel at the building's window, damaging the frame and curtain, but passing motorists noticed the fire and managed to put out the blaze, he said.
In the second incident about a kilometre (less than a mile) away, fire damaged the door, carpet and curtain of a prayer room which also had its window broken with stones.

"Police are investigating to identify the suspects and motive," Lee said in a statement, urging all parties not to exploit the assaults.
The church attacks broke out after a December 31 court ruling that overturned a ban on non-Muslims using "Allah" as a translation for "God." The ruling has been suspended pending an appeal.

The row is the latest in a string of religious disputes that have erupted in recent years, straining relations between Muslim Malays and minority ethnic Chinese and Indians who fear the country is being "Islamised."

Police said Wednesday they had arrested eight people over the first of the church attacks, a firebombing that gutted the ground floor of an Assemblies of God church in suburban Kuala Lumpur.

Religion and language are sensitive issues in multiracial Malaysia, which experienced deadly race riots in 1969.
Malaysia's population is 60 percent Malay, but also includes indigenous tribes as well as the large ethnic Chinese and Indian communities -- practising Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism, among other religions.

[Excalibur]

Pigs heads found at Malaysia mosque amid Allah row

Tue, Jan 26 2010
KUALA LUMPUR (*******) - Malaysian police said two pig's heads were found at a Malaysian mosque close to a neighborhood hit by an ethnic clash nine years ago following a series of arson and firebomb attacks on churches.
The discovery of the pig heads -- an animal considered offensive to Muslims and whose consumption is prohibited -- could further inflame tensions in the mainly Muslim country, prompting police to issue a stern warning against stirring up emotions.
Eleven churches, a Catholic school, a Sikh temple, two mosques and two Muslim prayer rooms so far have been hit by arson and vandalism attacks in recent weeks over the use of the word "Allah" by Christians.
Police said the pig heads were found about 5:30 a.m. local time at a mosque on the outskirts of Kuala Lumpur in Selangor state.
"I am warning people not to try and influence the situation and don't try to take advantage to raise the anger of any ethnic group," Selangor police chief Khalid Abu Bakar told *******.
The mosque is located near a neighborhood which in 2001 was hit by an ethnic clash that reportedly left six people dead.
Khalid said police were working closely with local mosque and neighborhood committees to try and keep residents calm.
The row stems from a court ruling on December 31 last year allowing a Catholic newspaper to use "Allah" in its Malay-language editions.
FACEBOOK GROUP
A group created in the online networking site Facebook to protest the use of the word by non-Muslims has so far attracted more than 250,000 people.
The use of "Allah" is common among Malay-speaking Christians, who account for 9.1 percent of the 28 million population, especially in the Borneo states of Sabah and Sarawak.
Opinions are split, but many Malays have expressed unhappiness over allowing the word to be used by Christians.
The government has warned that laws, including the Internal Security Act that allows detention without trial, would be deployed to keep tensions from boiling over.
Police have so far arrested 19 people over the attacks, and a 25-year-old Malay student was charged in court on January 15 with threatening public safety following a comment he reportedly made on his Facebook page offering to throw petrol bombs.
The government of Prime Minister Najib Razak is appealing the court verdict and has condemned the arson and vandalism attacks, but analysts have said he would likely lose votes among non-Muslims unhappy with the row.
Malaysia's mainly Chinese and Indian non-Muslim ethnic minorities, who form 40 percent of the country's population, abandoned the ruling coalition in the 2008 general elections partly due to complaints over increasing religious marginalization.
Analysts have said the arson attacks, though not an immediate risk, are raising worries among some foreign investors at a time when Prime Minister Najib Razak has pledged to lure more foreign investment.
Malaysia, which between 1990 and 2000 accounted for half of all foreign direct investment into it, Thailand and Indonesia, has now lost its leading position. Najib is trying to woo them back with economic liberalization measures.
(Reporting by Razak Ahmad; Editing by Bill Tarrant)


http://www.*******.com/article/idUSTRE60Q0OB20100127

[ggk]

By Agence France-Presse, Updated: 1/23/2010
Malaysian police arrest four over Muslim prayer hall attacks

Malaysian police said Saturday they had arrested four men in connection with arson attacks on two Muslim prayer halls amid a spate of assaults on places of worship that have escalated ethnic tensions.



Malaysian police said Saturday they had arrested four men in connection with arson attacks on two Muslim prayer halls amid a spate of assaults on places of worship that have escalated ethnic tensions.

The arrests follow the detention of 15 others for attacks on churches triggered by a court ruling that overturned a government ban on non-Muslims using the word "Allah" as a translation for "God".

Deputy police chief Ismail Omar told state news agency Bernama the four, aged between 16 and 28, were believed to be involved in the attacks Thursday on two Muslim prayer halls.
The prayer halls, both in Muar in the southern state of Johor, suffered minor fire damage.

"Investigations are still ongoing and we don't know what was their real motive," Ismail told Bernama.

"We are still in the process of compiling a solid case against them so they can be brought to court," he added. A senior aide to Ismail confirmed the report but declined further comment.
Eleven churches and two Muslim prayer halls across the mainly Muslim nation have been pelted with Molotov cocktails, stones and paint in recent weeks.

Police on Friday arrested seven more people over January 10 church attacks in the northern state of Perak with eight others detained earlier in the week over the first of the attacks, on a church in Kuala Lumpur.

Religion and language are sensitive issues in multi-racial Malaysia, which experienced deadly race riots in 1969.

[TheMiddlePath]

http://www.*******.com/article/idUSTRE60Q0OB20100127


Quote"The mosque is located near a neighborhood which in 2001 was hit by an ethnic clash that reportedly left six people dead."

Is that the ethnic clash near the Old Klang Road between Indians and Malays ? Between one group holding a wedding and one group holding a funeral ?

[mukdenincident]

Peace here means submitting to the will of the majority. There are no two ways about it.



Actually, the Sabahans/Sarawakians have been using Allah since forever. IINM it is KDN who started banning them from using it only recently.



RAGE!

Sarang tebuan jangan dijolok - Don't poke the hornet's nest.

Sabahans/Sarawakians were not obliged to Islamic law... In fact, Sabah and Sarawak(maybe even Penang) was the only secular state in Malaysia... Dont forget that...

[mukdenincident]

oh so you think now you are 14 you think can rant using the F word huh?.. AUG 31 1957 is the independant day lah budak.... Sept 16 1963 is the federation day.... download that into you childish brain. Or better go and study hard at school, then when you finish go to the university...then when you finish you come back here.




oh? since when Iban started calling their God Allah?

Since before Kingdom of Sarawak were even established... And Sept 16 1963 IS Malaysian Independence Day!!
Do you read Perjanjian Malaysia?? No wonder my friends wanted independence so badly...

[asch]

dude, you humpin' a dead thread.

[mukdenincident]

I beg to differ. I hope to see more non-muslims leave Malaysia due to this incident. This will result in political power being consolidated by UMNO, and we can finally achieve true harmony and reclaim Tanah Melayu. Lets just face the facts here, 40% of people with different religion and language than the majority trying to co-exist is simply not going to happen. Even the US with 75% white majority still has racial issues going on for hundreds of years now, considering also that Hispanics and Blacks share the same religion, and Blacks speak exclusively English.

Which is why I said, in Malaysia's case the minority has to bend over backwards and submit to the will of the majority in order for peace to prevail. If they do not like it here, it would be in everyone's best interest that they leave. In fact, it is UMNO who is responsible for granting the non-malays citizenship at the behest of their British colonial masters. They have to make things right again and it seems they are.

Tell me ggk, do you have any non-malay/non-muslim friends you'd miss when they are gone? I do, but I believe its for their own good. I don't want them getting hurt when the second 13th May happens if a significant percentage of non-malays remain. It will be a second Rwanda 1994.

Okay, Then. Sabah/Sarawak, Pull Out!!!

[Sootan]

Okay, Then. Sabah/Sarawak, Pull Out!!!
Did you actually check the date of the posts here before replying to them?