Ukrainian president deepens divisions with Russia with new holiday [Archive]

Mango Madness

01-08-2010, 10:28 PM

Ukrainian president deepens divisions with Russia with new holiday
Published 08 January, 2010, 15:08
http://rt.com/Politics/2010-01-08/yushchenko-decree-ukrainian-holiday.html

Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko signed a decree on Thursday to establish a holiday dedicated to Ukrainian soldiers who fought during WWI on the side of the Austro-Hungarian Empire against Russia.

Viktor Yushchenko said that a celebration is to be planned within two months and to mark the 95th anniversary of Ukraine's victory with mass gatherings and symposiums. Moreover, the president has ordered the production of special postage stamps and envelopes, to organize exhibitions, to broadcast a special documentary and to give the names of the fallen soldiers to certain streets, avenues, military bases and academies.

Boris Gryzlov, Russian State Duma speaker, claimed the new decree was another one unfriendly step in Russian-Ukrainian relations. “We are united by age-old historical and cultural ties. All of us saw the countrywide support of Ukrainians for Orthodoxy during the visit of Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill to Ukraine,” Gryzlov said.

“There are enough common milestone events and victories in the history of Russia and Ukraine,” he added.

It is not the first time Ukraine has established such a holiday. In July of 2009, the country celebrated the “Konotop Massacre” (http://rt.com/Politics/2009-07-11/Spin-a-battle__how_Ukraine_invented_the__Konotop_Massacre_.html) – one of the battles of The Russo-Polish war in 1654-1667 – which was marked as a Ukrainian victory and a defeat of Russians.

In January of 2009, Ukrainians marked the 100th anniversary of the birth of Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera, whose army collaborated with the Nazis during WWII. In 2008, participants of the march dedicated to the 99th anniversary (http://rt.com/Top_News/2008-01-02/nazi_collaborator_commemorated_in_ukrainian_capital_.html) demanded that Bandera be granted the status of Ukrainian hero.

Figurant

01-08-2010, 11:07 PM

Ukrainian president deepens divisions with Russia with new holiday
l (http://rt.com/Politics/2010-01-08/yushchenko-decree-ukrainian-holiday.html)
Methinks the only divisions he can deepen involve his neuronal cells, and they are scarce enough.
Just IMHO.
I don't know why Russian officials are reacting to such stupid initiatives anyway.
Most Ukrainians don't give a damn about this.

Russianlynxy

01-08-2010, 11:12 PM

Methinks the only divisions he can deepen involve his neuronal cells, and they are scarce enough.
Just IMHO.
I don't know why Russian officials are reacting to such stupid initiatives anyway.
Most Ukrainians don't give a damn about this.

you're right who listens to anything from this idiot anymore? It's all provocation and PR for his hopeless election where he has about a 3% rating.

Mango Madness

01-09-2010, 12:20 AM

you're right who listens to anything from this idiot anymore? It's all provocation and PR for his hopeless election where he has about a 3% rating.

The problem is that he has the power to implement his views, such as establishing this holiday and getting the state to glorify these people. Even when he gets voted out, once something becomes law it is hard to reverse.

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 12:22 AM

guys who cares... all of this Yuschenko nonsense is going to be done with very soon...

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 12:23 AM

you're right who listens to anything from this idiot anymore? It's all provocation and PR for his hopeless election where he has about a 3% rating.

Funny thing is I heard it's 6% now. He's trying really hard)

Bob Sapp

01-09-2010, 01:06 AM

Who cares what that joke does...he will be gone very soon anwyays.

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 01:08 AM

Собака лает - караван идет.
The dog barks - the caravan moves on.

Xaito

01-09-2010, 02:01 AM

Funny thing is I heard it's 6% now. He's trying really hard)

Losing the election didn't stop him from becoming president the first time what makes you think he won't be President again?
He can do what he wants since he's got friends with monopoly on deciding what is democratic and what is not. :)

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 02:10 AM

Собака лает - караван идет.
The dog barks - the caravan moves on.

x2...........

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 02:12 AM

Losing the election didn't stop him from becoming president the first time what makes you think he won't be President again?
He can do what he wants since he's got friends with monopoly on deciding what is democratic and what is not. :)

Nah not this time. Last time he had some actual poitical capital. He's done with unless Yu 's got some fireworks up his sleeve. But they don't call him Pasechnik for nothing. He's got nothing on Pahan (Yanukovych).

Difool

01-09-2010, 02:34 AM

Remember how Yeltsin got voted the last time despite of devastating polls? It depends on money and methods and not the will of the people. :(

Excalibur

01-09-2010, 02:42 AM

Funny thing is I heard it's 6% now. He's trying really hard) trying hard, but still this is less than what my dietetic cheese have. p-)

edi_

01-09-2010, 02:51 AM

I am very surprised the guy didn't get shot yet, he must have a very good security.

When's the election btw? I thought it was in January...

Andarius-Militarius

01-09-2010, 03:35 AM

I'd take a miracle, a state of emergency, a coup, or another tent-city to get Yushchenko reelected. His support base since 2004 has dwindled down to a few die-hard fans in the Lvov and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblasts.

Robert.V

01-09-2010, 03:47 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if a "miracle" would happen.

daily666

01-09-2010, 04:08 AM

In January of 2009, Ukrainians marked the 100th anniversary of the birth of Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera, whose army collaborated with the Nazis during WWII. In 2008, participants of the march dedicated to the 99th anniversary demanded that Bandera be granted the status of Ukrainian hero.

This has won Yushchenko many enemies in Poland. Bandera units massacred many Polish villages durind thay time. It's like saying that Kaminski and RONA were heroes.

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 05:03 AM

This has won Yushchenko many enemies in Poland. Bandera units massacred many Polish villages durind thay time. It's like saying that Kaminski and RONA were heroes.

Dumb move by Yuschenko for sho'

edi_

01-09-2010, 05:34 AM

I wonder what will happen if Yushenko wins the election, probably a revolution.......Crimea needs to revolt and join Russia :)

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 05:44 AM

I wonder what will happen if Yushenko wins the election, probably a revolution.......Crimea needs to revolt and join Russia :)

Do you want to see people die or what? Do you have a fetish? :roll:

intelligenzija

01-09-2010, 05:51 AM

Do you want to see people die or what? Do you have a fetish? :roll:

oh come on don't be a hypocrite, how many people on this forum advocate wars ( against Iran for example) ..

armored_diplomacy

01-09-2010, 05:53 AM

Sad.
Can´t they just get along as good neighbours?

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 05:59 AM

oh come on don't be a hypocrite, how many people on this forum advocate wars ( against Iran for example) ..

Uh oh, the common sense train has arrived. Prepare for the flame war.

Yuschenko is grasping at straws, and it pretty much all this is, is a way for him to make it much more difficult for the person to replace him, to fix the problems that where created. It is his going away present; "Congrats a**holes, enjoy cleaning the pile of **** I left over for the last 8 years".

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 06:13 AM

Uh oh, the common sense train has arrived. Prepare for the flame war.

We have several Ukranians members on this forum.. And we talk about Eastern Europe..

How would you feel when someone would call for Quebec to join France or something? :roll:

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 06:15 AM

We have several Ukranians members on this forum.. And we talk about Eastern Europe..

How would you feel when someone would call for Quebec to join France or something? :roll:

I would say they can go ahead and leave, but take the half of the national dept they accumulated with them. At least it will allow for a lot of manufacturing industries that have left from Winnipeg to go back to Winnipeg.

Difool

01-09-2010, 06:15 AM

Do you want to see people die or what? Do you have a fetish? :roll:
Fact is that Yushenko's policy stimulate the regional conflicts in his country. He should act a lot more responsibly if he wants to keep it united. Otherwise I fear that a civil war like situation might come up in the future.

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 06:16 AM

Fact is that Yushenko's policy stimulate the regional conflicts in his country. He should act a lot more responsibly if he wants to keep it united. Otherwise I fear that a civil war like situation might come up in the future.

Thats OK. People are too poor in Ukraine anyway to do anything about it. Since most industries left back to Russia or went somewhere else.

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 06:18 AM

Fact is that Yushenko's policy stimulate the regional conflicts in his country. He should act a lot more responsibly if he wants to keep it united. Otherwise I fear that a civil war like situation might come up in the future.

This is a good post.. First of all i would like to say that i dont know **** about Ukrainian internal politics and same is probably with 90% of the Russians here too.. Everyone just repeat the same thing all over again "Yushenko have no chance! Only 8% of population support him"..

I say lets wait for the elections, get a word from EU observers and then see who won..

And i dont think its right that some people here are calling and hoping for a civil war in Ukraine..

Afro-European

01-09-2010, 07:16 AM

Yushchenko is still grasping at the last straw.Just 2 weeks to go and he'll be gone.

TakeIt

01-09-2010, 07:50 AM

The more mr.Us is being disliked by the living, the more he loves the dead. The more he's unable to shape the future, the more he's willing to live in the past.

Mango Madness

01-09-2010, 08:27 AM

Yuschenko is grasping at straws, and it pretty much all this is, is a way for him to make it much more difficult for the person to replace him, to fix the problems that where created. It is his going away present; "Congrats a**holes, enjoy cleaning the pile of **** I left over for the last 8 years".

Haha, you nailed it

tommy00

01-09-2010, 10:37 AM

And i dont think its right that some people here are calling and hoping for a civil war in Ukraine..

It is funny, how "Kreml"-fans are calling for a civil war in Ukraine....
Bud let's look in the reality,...wich country does have a active civil war going on within his borders(with a hunderts of casulties).......Russia or Ukraine.....???
So, Ukraine has conducted a smarter politics then Russia.....

Frutzel

01-09-2010, 10:46 AM

dies irae

01-09-2010, 10:49 AM

As a 1/4 Ukrainian I hope Yuschenko will win and in close future Ukraina join NATO and EU. Also as far as I know almost all Ukrainian minority in Poland will vote for him.

Stormz_STA

01-09-2010, 10:54 AM

and in close future Ukraina join NATO and EU.

Not gonna happen.

tommy00

01-09-2010, 10:55 AM

Thats the reason why Ukraine is doing so well. :roll:
And it was ONE person who made the remark about civil war.So no need to throw everybody in the same basket. But since everybody knows your fetish, it is hardly surprising.
Elections will deal with him. Enough said

Who says they doing so well,......bud atleast no civil war there....
And wich holidays to celebrate on his country is only matter of this country, nothing to whine here foreigners, wheather they are "regular joe" or perhaps a chairman of a state "duma"....
As to a new president, this will be indeed dealed in elections.....people will decide

nsp

01-09-2010, 10:56 AM

...I hope Yuschenko will win and in close future Ukraina join NATO and EU...
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9692/defaultx.gif

Xaito

01-09-2010, 11:03 AM

Who says they doing so well,......bud atleast no civil war there....
And wich holidays to celebrate on his country is only matter of this country, nothing to whine here foreigners, wheather they are "regular joe" or perhaps a chairman of a state "duma"....
As to a new president, this will be indeed dealed in elections.....people will decide

there would be civil war there if there were people of the disposition as Chechens living there.
But Yushenko has been pushing the people and his luck over there imho.

Herman the II

01-09-2010, 11:06 AM

Frutzel

01-09-2010, 11:07 AM

Who says they doing so well

Shot memory?

So, Ukraine has conducted a smarter politics then Russia.....

Explain....

It is funny, how "Kreml"-fans are calling for a civil war in Ukraine

Why are you silent about your nonsense? I could give a flying **** what they are celebrating. Don't throw everybody in the same basket thats all.

tommy00

01-09-2010, 11:24 AM

Explain....

Explain.......that not having civil war is smarter then having one.....don't know how....i think it's a common sense to think so....

tommy00

01-09-2010, 11:30 AM

there would be civil war there if there were people of the disposition as Chechens living there.
But Yushenko has been pushing the people and his luck over there imho.

Stop thinking that it's only and always Yushenko,...that witout him everything will be a "rosegarden".....It doesen't work so, especially in politics.
All the main candidates to a new president has been in power in Ukraine, now or in past, their differences are more and less in details....

Xaito

01-09-2010, 11:39 AM

Stop thinking that it's only and always Yushenko,...that witout him everything will be a "rosegarden".....It doesen't work so, especially in politics.
All the main candidates to a new president has been in power in Ukraine, now or in past, their differences are more and less in details....

I don't think waging a war on Russian culture in Crimea, which happens to have what... 70% - probably more - people who live by said culture, is a mere detail.

Xaito

01-09-2010, 11:43 AM

tommy00

01-09-2010, 11:45 AM

I don't think waging a war on Russian culture in Crimea,

Do you think you have enough information to make such a serious claim....???
I observe Ukrainian politics to, war on Russian culture....don't see it happen...
And why only Crimea...???
It's the tatars there who claim Crimea beeing their land...

Xaito

01-09-2010, 11:52 AM

Do you think you have enough information to make such a serious claim....???
I observe Ukrainian politics to, war on Russian culture....don't see it happen...
And why only Crimea...???
It's the tatars there who claim Crimea beeing their land...

it's not only happening in Crimea - but due to the demographic situation in Crimea it's more significant that it's happening there as well.

Robert.V

01-09-2010, 12:19 PM

Really I would think everyone on this place would stop bother replying to the 9 year old by now.

It's a waste of bandwidth and time.

Tank34

01-09-2010, 01:23 PM

It is funny, how "Kreml"-fans are calling for a civil war in Ukraine....
Bud let's look in the reality,...wich country does have a active civil war going on within his borders(with a hunderts of casulties).......Russia or Ukraine.....???
So, Ukraine has conducted a smarter politics then Russia.....

Actually Russia almost always have active civil war in Chechnya after big crisis. Thats why they were deported in WW2(no one want a second front during total war). So this is would be always a problem until Chechnya become a civilized place(so rebuilding of infrastructure and killing of the terrorists leaders is the main target). But inner problem in Russian always trow us back in this process. I do not see other solution(except the genocide, but this solution is unacceptable).
Independence for Chechnya is not an option(I would prefer such solution, if it would be possible, but do not think that even heavy minefields on borders would help to containment it from Kavkaz). De facto we tried this solution after first Chechen war.(the first war was a mistake, and it is crime of democrats that come to power after the fall of USSR, but we cannot change the history)
If you have a more smarter solution, please we would be glad to hear it.
Ukraine now is like Russia in 90-s(but with 3 Elcin and without oil and gas). Thats why many Russians have feelings of close civil war.

Difool

01-09-2010, 01:38 PM

Ukraine now is like Russia in 90-s(but with 3 Elcin and without oil and gas). Thats why many Russians have feelings of close civil war.

:) LOL
I've got Russian friends from the Crimea who think the same about the Ukrainian politicians.

Yarrik_rus

01-09-2010, 02:00 PM

Do you think you have enough information to make such a serious claim....???
go to sevastopol.info forum and watch your self p-)

Kangars

01-09-2010, 03:42 PM

My uncle is university teacher in Crimea. So yeah, fist hand information is what we have. Ukraine is not doing well at the moment. Guess Russia can just sit back and wait.

Stormz_STA

01-09-2010, 03:58 PM

Guess Russia can just sit back and wait.

Wait for what? Bloodshed?

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 04:02 PM

Wait for what? Bloodshed?

For Yuschenko to go away.. if he does the chances of bloodshed are going to be significantly reduced

Stormz_STA

01-09-2010, 04:04 PM

For Yuschenko to go away.. if he does the chances of bloodshed are going to be significantly reduced

Ok. But do you guys really think things will be different if Yanukovych wins? Or anyone else for that matter?

gazell

01-09-2010, 04:12 PM

What is wrong with a remembrance day for the fallen in WW1? Ukrainian people fought alongside the victorious Austro-Hungarian Empire and the German Empire against the Russian Empire. Where is the problem exactly? I could imagine worse reasons to celebrate then a successful military campaign...

Quite so, I'm inclined to think, Russia would not care, were there not such a bad record of Ukraine gov in the recent past.

there would be civil war there if there were people of the disposition as Chechens living there.
But Yushenko has been pushing the people and his luck over there imho.

x2.

Also, however unlikely alliance it seems, there is one of Russian, Romanian and Hungarian minorities - which together I would guess are a majority of the country - against the treatment of minorities.

No, it does not look stable, it's not wishes of evil posters, it's reality.

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 04:13 PM

Ok. But do you guys really think things will be different if Yanukovych wins? Or anyone else for that matter?

There will be less of a chance for the situation in Crimea to turn into a small scale civil war. Yuschenko has been trying to replace ppl within the Interior of the Crimea with utranationalists from western regions of Ukraine which in itself is a recipe for disaster. If Yanukovych wins then at least there is a chance things are going to calm down.

Tank34

01-09-2010, 04:35 PM

Do not forget that not only language and nationality distinction can divide Ukraine. But economical part is a major factor. East part historicaly have strong industry and in tought times west Ukraine would be just a ballast economicaly for east. And division could bring significant rise in quality of life in eastern part with time. So do not know what would be better. And quite happy that i am do not need to decide.

Xaito

01-09-2010, 05:29 PM

Ok. But do you guys really think things will be different if Yanukovych wins? Or anyone else for that matter?

at least people will have secured gas supply during winter for a change, eh? p-)

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 05:53 PM

Ok. But do you guys really think things will be different if Yanukovych wins? Or anyone else for that matter?

No.. he will just dance to a different flute.. Thats it..

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 06:23 PM

I think many of you are missing the point. It will no make a difference of who wins, Timoshenko or Yanukovich. (Yuschenko has a very low rating, even for fraud).

The Ukraine was always the USSR and Russia's most important territorial asset. Half of Russia's industry is there, 50 million people live there, and strategically it is split in the middle of Eastern Europe. It is not geopolitically expedient for the US or the EU to allow a re-establishment of close ties between the Ukraine and Russia, which could potentially lead to a union of some sort. They will do everything possible to make sure this does not happen.

Russia does not have enough political weight to counter this, unfortunately.
So the best Russia can hope for right now is a "neutral" leadership in Ukraine, one that is not openly hostile to Russia's interests. The west will of course be interested in a hostile regime, and an expulsion of the Black Sea fleet (military presence) from the Crimea.

such is the world these days.

so unless the Obama administration has "lost interest" in Ukraine. Which I somehow doubt... the geopolitical struggle for Ukraine will continue.

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 06:33 PM

As a 1/4 Ukrainian I hope Yuschenko will win and in close future Ukraina join NATO and EU. Also as far as I know almost all Ukrainian minority in Poland will vote for him.

A polish that is 1/4 Ukrainian.

I am 3/4 Ukrainian and 1/4 Polish, and I would prefer Ukraine to stay on Russia's side. Why? Because it would mean a lot less **** to deal with in the future when there is belligerents in Ukraine. And the fact that maybe I want what the people of the country want. Also, Ukrainians are more blood brothers with Russians then they are of Polish. And has been that way for a very long time.

I think many of you are missing the point. It will no make a difference of who wins, Timoshenko or Yanukovich. (Yuschenko has a very low rating, even for fraud).

The Ukraine was always the USSR and Russia's most important territorial asset. Half of Russia's industry is there, 50 million people live there, and strategically it is split in the middle of Eastern Europe. It is not geopolitically expedient for the US or the EU to allow a re-establishment of close ties between the Ukraine and Russia, which could potentially lead to a union of some sort. They will do everything possible to make sure this does not happen.

Russia does not have enough political weight to counter this, unfortunately.
So the best Russia can hope for right now is a "neutral" leadership in Ukraine, one that is not openly hostile to Russia's interests. The west will of course be interested in a hostile regime, and an expulsion of the Black Sea fleet (military presence) from the Crimea.

such is the world these days.

so unless the Obama administration has "lost interest" in Ukraine. Which I somehow doubt... the geopolitical struggle for Ukraine will continue.

Russia though has the upper hand with Ukraine. With the majority of the country speaking Russian and majority not in favor of Yuschenko or his policies, then that means it would be a lot easier to stage a coup, or to simply corrupt the officials in Russia's favor. At that, the country is already in shambles economically, why not use that to Russia's advantage? The more businesses in Ukraine, the less likely Ukraine will move on out (Kind of like Belarus, they know they cannot survive for too long on its own without Russia).

Breerman

01-09-2010, 06:37 PM

The Russian president recently deepened divisions with my country with a commemorative coin celebrating the 300th anniversary of Poltava.

It's pure provocation and PR.

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 06:41 PM

The Russian president recently deepened divisions with my country with a commemorative coin celebrating the 300th anniversary of Poltava.

It's pure provocation and PR.

I remember when Yuschenko tried to hold a day of honor for Charles XII of Sweden and Ivan Mazepa, his Ukrainian mercenary. That wasn't a provocation? LOL:roll:

Russia though has the upper hand with Ukraine. With the majority of the country speaking Russian and majority not in favor of Yuschenko or his policies, then that means it would be a lot easier to stage a coup, or to simply corrupt the officials in Russia's favor. At that, the country is already in shambles economically, why not use that to Russia's advantage? The more businesses in Ukraine, the less likely Ukraine will move on out (Kind of like Belarus, they know they cannot survive for too long on its own without Russia).

That is what we're hoping for. Prior to 2008, money decided everything. And the EU and the US State Department was throwing money into the Orange Revolution and later Yuschenko's regime. Now there is a little problem - the money ran out and mouths are still open.

edi_

01-09-2010, 06:50 PM

So, Ukraine has conducted a smarter politics then Russia.....

http://i37.tinypic.com/30sy9hv.gif

Tommy, you need to stop posting.

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 07:02 PM

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 07:05 PM

tommy you just have an unhealthy bias toward Russia. Everything that is beneficial for Russia, you despise and criticize. Everything that carries a negative connotation you praise. All your posts reflect this, so don't expect people to take your opinion seriously.

Oh no you didn't.

Seriously, he will come back and reply stating how stupid you are. Or how he hates the Russian leadership, not the people. Or he will simply say "prove me wrong" or "prove that I am".

So you just opened a can of **** storm.

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 07:08 PM

tommy you just have an unhealthy bias toward Russia. Everything that is beneficial for Russia, you despise and criticize. Everything that carries a negative connotation you praise. All your posts reflect this, so don't expect people to take your opinion seriously.

Why does every single Russia Crew member use personal attacks? Respond to hes argument and thats it..

I see this every time.. A user post something remotely negative of Russia and in few minutes you have hoard of users personally attacking him..

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 07:10 PM

Why does every single Russia Crew member use personal attacks? Respond to hes argument and thats it..

I see this every time.. A user post something remotely negative of Russia and in few minutes you have hoard of users personally attacking him..

Why does every single Russian hate crew member use personal attacks on the country and the people?

I see this every time.. A user posts something remotely negative of Russia and in a few minutes you have a hoard of other Russian haters using retarded small talk to make Russia sound like a loser country.

Now lets counter that question.

Why is every polish member from Poland, a major US STRONG11!!1! and seems to get their undies in a twist when something does not go US's way? Poland should be renamed to LUSA (Little USA).

At that, why do they have to go to every Russian thread (you included) and state on how bad the country is or how stupid they are?

Snoshi

01-09-2010, 07:11 PM

Why does every single Russian hate crew member use personal attacks on the country and the people?

I see this every time.. A user posts something remotely negative of Russia and in a few minutes you have a hoard of other Russian haters using retarded small talk to make Russia sound like a loser country.

^^ That is all "fair".. Making personal attacks is a sign of weakness, because its usually used an "argument of last resort".

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 07:13 PM

^^ That is all "fair".. Making personal attacks is a sign of weakness, because its usually used an "argument of last resort".

there is no argument.

sepheronx

01-09-2010, 07:14 PM

^^ That is all "fair".. Making personal attacks is a sign of weakness, because its usually used an "argument of last resort".

No. They are just playing your game or the game of Tommy00 and so on. Polish members make fun or point fingers at Russia. Russian members make fun or point fingers at Polish members and Poland. Tit for tat.

At that, why is it that the Russian members are blamed first and not the Polish members or US members or any other member that makes the first comment in a Russian article? Quick to denounce the Russian's, aren't you?

TakeIt

01-09-2010, 07:18 PM

Why does every single Russia Crew member use personal attacks? Don't look so surprised. The amount of hatefull ignorance that is being spilled out in most Russia-related threads surely is tireing. It is better to ask why people without adequate knowledge bother to display their ignorance.

Respond to hes argument and thats it.. There is none. He simply exchanged subjects. If you cannot grasp such simple fact, don't defend him.

I see this every time.. A user post something remotely negative of Russia and in few minutes you have hoard of users personally attacking him.. That is not exclusively russian trait, isn't it? No need to cry.

Frutzel

01-09-2010, 07:20 PM

Why does every single Russia Crew member use personal attacks? Respond to hes argument and thats it..

I see this every time.. A user post something remotely negative of Russia and in few minutes you have hoard of users personally attacking him..

What are you talking about?! He didn't insult him or anything. But funny that you come to help tommy out. He sure is a diamond of eloquence on this board.

----------------------------------------

I hope after the elections there will be something else (positive) to discuss. These threads are getting annoying.

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 07:22 PM

Stormz_STA

01-09-2010, 07:23 PM

Why is every polish member from Poland, a major US STRONG11!!1!

Every? You are sure about that? Do you know all Poles who post here?

and seems to get their undies in a twist when something does not go US's way? Poland should be renamed to LUSA (Little USA).

Well, I guess if you have nothing really wise to say you start throwing insults.
You really make Canadians look bad.

At that, why do they have to go to every Russian thread (you included) and state on how bad the country is or how stupid they are?

Snoshi is not Polish so why are you even talking about my country, dumbass.

Satorius

01-09-2010, 07:39 PM

The Russian president recently deepened divisions with my country with a commemorative coin celebrating the 300th anniversary of Poltava.

It's pure provocation and PR.

The Russian Fed is likely to introduce the celebration of the victory over the French and their European allies in 1812.

http://rt.com/Politics/2009-12-24/napoleon-victory-russian-holiday.html

Following the logics of Russian idiots that they demonstrated in the Ukrainian case Kremlin celebrations should be considered unfriendly steps towards those nations. Fortunately, Russian patriotic imbecility is uniquely Russian.

edi_

01-09-2010, 07:58 PM

......

Weren't you banned already?

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 07:59 PM

Following the logics of Russian idiots that they demonstrated in the Ukrainian case Kremlin celebrations should be considered unfriendly steps towards those nations. Fortunately, Russian patriotic imbecility is uniquely Russian.

maybe soon we'll be celebrating the return of the Mongol Horde to Ukraine.
roflrofl idiot.

TakeIt

01-09-2010, 08:08 PM

The Russian Fed is likely to introduce the celebration of the victory over the French and their European allies in 1812. Hm, i think it is retarded to compare victory against invaders aimed at conquering country to the celebration of soldiers that were part of the invading force. The even more peculiar aspect in this comparison is that russian forces fought for preservation of their own state, while ukrainian fought for their conquerrors.

Fortunately, Russian patriotic imbecility is uniquely Russian.
Oh you... Seems like someone have short memory, yes?

BTW, our glorious president announced recently, that he's planning to publish a book, which will contain his best speeches on pressing issues of today's life. Awesome, just what our country needs.

Satorius

01-09-2010, 08:32 PM

Hm, i think it is retarded to compare victory against invaders aimed at conquering country to the celebration of soldiers that were part of the invading force. The even more peculiar aspect in this comparison is that russian forces fought for preservation of their own state, while ukrainian fought for their conquerrors.

Part of invading force? It was the Russian Empire that invaded Galizien land in WWI. Learn some geography and history

When the Ukrainian people's republic was formed Ukrainian Sich riflemen fought on behalf of the Ukrainian state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sich_Riflemen

The Ukrainian Sich Riflemen (Ukrainian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language): Січові Cтрільці) were one of the regular military units of the Army of the Ukrainian People's Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic). The unit operated from 1917 to 1919 and was formed from Ukrainian soldiers of the Austro-Hungarian army, local population and former commanders of the Ukrainian Sich Riflemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Sich_Riflemen) in Galicia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Central_Europe%29). The first kurin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurin) was formed in Kyiv on 13 November 1917. Commanded by Col. Yevhen Konovalets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevhen_Konovalets), the Sich Rifles had up to 25,000 men at their peak, including artillery, cavalry, reconnaissance and machine gun units.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UA_Sich_Str_Flag.jpg)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UA_Sich_Str_Flag.jpg)
The Sich Riflemen defended the government of UNR against the Bolshevik insurrection in the capital and later against regular Red Army forces that advanced into Ukraine in 1918. When Kyiv was recaptured in March 1918 the Ukrainian Sich Riflemen guarded government buildings in the capital and maintained order in the city. The unit later expanded to include two infantry detachments, a cavalry unit and an artillery battery. With the establishment of Hetmanate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetmanate) of Pavlo Skoropadsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlo_Skoropadsky) the Sich Riflemen refused to serve him and were disarmed by the German forces that supported the hetman.

Satorius

01-09-2010, 08:43 PM

Another funny thing in this context about Russian holidays is the celebation of so-called Russian national unity day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Day_%28Russia%29

It is dedicated to the victory of one fraction of Muscovite boyars over other fraction of Muscovite boyars supported by Polish-Ukrainian-Lithuanian units. Following the morbid logics of the Kremlin puppets this Kremlin organized celebration is the affront to Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania.

CaptMorgan68

01-09-2010, 08:45 PM

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/i_like_where_thread_going3.jpg

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 08:52 PM

It is dedicated to the victory of one fraction of Muscovite boyars over other fraction of Muscovite boyars supported by Polish-Ukrainian-Lithuanian units. Following the morbid logics of the Kremlin puppets this Kremlin organized celebration is the affront to Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania.

why is this bad? The Polish Lithuanian commonwealth invaded Russia and installed it's own puppet government and divided the country.

DRA

01-09-2010, 09:03 PM

hm, i think it is retarded to compare victory against invaders aimed at conquering country to the celebration of soldiers that were part of the invading force. The even more peculiar aspect in this comparison is that russian forces fought for preservation of their own state, while ukrainian fought for their conquerrors.
x2

As for Yuschenko aka "spineless clown"...he has two weeks left and is trying real hard to f**k up as many things in Ukraine as he can. Fortunately he can't really do much as only lazy don't send him "нахуй" nowadays. It is really quite sad but because of him Ukrainians lost all and any respect for the Presidential office, at this point "janitor" title carries more weight in the Ukraine then the "President".
Somebody before suggested that he will pull the same stunt as Elzin did in '96 elections - impossible. The huge difference is that Elzin had the backing of oligarchs and did not completely alienate Russian population, while the only backing Yuschenko has are the neocons in the US who have neither the money nor the power they did in 2004. Yuschenko even managed to lose the support base in the western Ukraine, now it's Tyagnibok's territory.

He is definitely out in two weeks, his CIA handler/wife has already shipped most of their valuables out of the country (inside info;))

I do enjoy reading posts from some clueless jews, polacks and priebolts trying to "weigh in" in their infinite wisdom and expertise on the situation in Ukraine. You know, when I read some of your posts - I can't help but wish for the Tyagnibok to win, just for sh*ts and giggles, just to see what would happen to your kind in the "strong and independent Ukraine"...

Speaking of the elections
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7MAGSrAt6o&feature=related

Russianlynxy

01-09-2010, 09:07 PM

Speaking of the elections
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7MAGSrAt6o&feature=related

I love watching Vecherniy Kvartal. Ukraine really does have a lot talent when it comes to comedy. Getting tired of watching Comedy Club and Co. all the time...

TakeIt

01-09-2010, 09:09 PM

Part of invading force? It was the Russian Empire that invaded Galizien land in WWI.Good that you aren't affraid to show your ignorance. Let me remind you when WWI happened: between 1914 and 1918. Who declared war on whom? A-H on Russia at 6 August 1914. In the same month Ukrainian Board swored allegiance to Gabsburg dynasty and called ukrainians to prove it on the battlefield, for this purpose a Battle Board was created. So started the process of forming ukrainian regiments to fight Russian Empire. USS is the direct result of that process. That is a short story, to be brief.

BTW, somehow that "Galizien" reminded me of... But that is worth another thread.. However it is really disturbing to see it written that way..

Learn some geography and history Again? Wasn't our previous little discussion taught you anything?

When the Ukrainian people's republic was formed Ukrainian Sich riflemen fought on behalf of the Ukrainian state. You ought to get out of the basement more, i mean read something else, that wiki alone.

There are more stupid things in this decree, but the fact alone it existed and is being pushed on such level is enough.

DRA

01-09-2010, 09:18 PM

I love watching Vecherniy Kvartal. Ukraine really does have a lot talent when it comes to comedy. Getting tired of watching Comedy Club and Co. all the time...

Well, Ukrainian political scene is waaayyy more "exciting" and entertaining then the Russian one. It is fun to observe but it is not as much fun for those who have to live through it.

smile

01-10-2010, 07:45 AM

This is the common theatre in the Ukraine. Nothing new, funny to watch from next door, but mercy with people. He just work off the money of his possessor. Only few weeks until election.
Would be ridiculous if he visit his homecountry with second wife. Or would he return to his real homecountry after the election.
Stable government with the same directive as the normal people is the only thing that the new president and any country need. But the new president have to employ first with changes of this regime, before he really start to work.

sepheronx

01-10-2010, 07:53 AM

Every? You are sure about that? Do you know all Poles who post here?

Well, I guess if you have nothing really wise to say you start throwing insults.
You really make Canadians look bad.

Snoshi is not Polish so why are you even talking about my country, dumbass.

Generalization hurts, doesn't it?

Oops, forgot, Snoshi isn't Polish. But then again, of course he is not, because he is acting more appropriate in a Russian thread, unlike most Polish members.

Must have struck a nerve. Oh, btw, your comment "You really make Canadians look bad", maybe you should come up with something new? - OOh, ouch, that really hurts.

Awaiting bombardment from more Polish members. Then awaiting for a further ****storm in this already crappy thread.

Russianlynxy

01-10-2010, 09:18 AM

I feel digrar coming around this thread all salty and locking it soon. lol

gazell

01-10-2010, 11:38 AM

tommy00

01-10-2010, 12:22 PM

tommy you just have an unhealthy bias toward Russia. Everything that is beneficial for Russia, you despise and criticize. Everything that carries a negative connotation you praise. All your posts reflect this, so don't expect people to take your opinion seriously.

I usually don't care of that sort a crap.....bud this time i saw something in some other tread......so to you with your own words...

grow a pair and argue instead of whining.

Stormz_STA

01-10-2010, 01:10 PM

Generalization hurts, doesn't it?

The only one generalizing here is you. And no, it doesn't hurt a bit if it's coming frome someone like you.

unlike most Polish members.

So is it all Polish members of just most of them? Make up your mind.

mike_w

01-10-2010, 06:45 PM

and in close future Ukraina join NATO and EU.
no hope. It will never happen.
I'd bet some territory of that very Ukraine will join back russia.

sepheronx

01-10-2010, 06:49 PM

The only one generalizing here is you. And no, it doesn't hurt a bit if it's coming frome someone like you.

So is it all Polish members of just most of them? Make up your mind.

Then if it didn't hurt, then you wouldn't have bothered posting in response. In other words, you are trying to see if I am willing to make corrections.

And no, it seems that most to all polish members here have something against anything Russian. Are you going to prove me right or wrong?

Mr.K

01-10-2010, 06:50 PM

Yusehnko should run for the PM of Manitoba p-)

sepheronx

01-10-2010, 06:51 PM

Yusehnko should run for the PM of Manitoba p-)

Yeah, most of the Polish and Ultra nationalist Ukes would vote for him. Then he would really run down the system of Winnipeg, even more so now.

But then again, that wouldn't be a very good idea either, as Russian companies have placed some investment into Manitoba.

Lector

01-10-2010, 08:36 PM

I do enjoy reading posts from some clueless jews, polacks and priebolts trying to "weigh in" in their infinite wisdom and expertise on the situation in Ukraine. You know, when I read some of your posts - I can't help but wish for the Tyagnibok to win, just for sh*ts and giggles, just to see what would happen to your kind in the "strong and independent Ukraine"...

Tyagnibok is using Hitler's ideology, so i sure hope that he doesn't win. He's just plain crazy.

Mr.K

01-10-2010, 08:37 PM

He'd sell weapon systems to separatists in Quebec, to fight against the federal "english" oppressor. ;)

Russianlynxy

01-10-2010, 09:10 PM

He'd sell weapon systems to separatists in Quebec, to fight against the federal "english" oppressor. ;)

probably not. but he would smuggle weapons into Chechnya and Dagestan

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:08 AM

Not sure what the russian forum members problem is. Ukraine is celebrating its military victory. So freakin what? In fact I am shocked that one country would interfear in the affairs of the other. If we were to follow this retarded logic, then russia should stop celbrating half of its own victories as they offed and deepend divisions with Ukraine (oh no!).

Captured russians
http://www.smotrite.com.ua/images/2010-01/items.1263034355.b.jpg

sepheronx

01-11-2010, 04:13 AM

eh, who cares anyway? Let Ukraine be another country teething at the teet of the USA, which eventually will stop gaining support funds. Not to mention, Oil and Gas will go up for them, as well as many companies would leave Ukraine, dropping them even further in terms of business.

Not sure what the russian forum members problem is. Ukraine is celebrating its military victory. So freakin what? In fact I am shocked that one country would interfear in the affairs of the other. If we were to follow this retarded logic, then russia should stop celbrating half of its own victories as they offed and deepend divisions with Ukraine (oh no!).

Captured russians
http://www.smotrite.com.ua/images/2010-01/items.1263034355.b.jpg

You would be in shock, how? Russia, USA and other countries has been meddling in Ukrainian affairs for a while now.

Irbis

01-11-2010, 08:05 AM

Difool

01-11-2010, 08:29 AM

Captured russians
http://www.smotrite.com.ua/images/2010-01/items.1263034355.b.jpg
Funny, eh? Those captured Russians are Cossacks of Ukrainian descent.

Derbedeu

01-11-2010, 08:49 AM

Herman the II

01-11-2010, 09:01 AM

What is wrong? :bash:

It would be like Britain passing the law honoring Legion of St. George (or France declaring 33rd Div. Charlemagne their true heroes while pissing on veterans of Régiment Normandie-Niemen) to piss off Russia. What's wrong, indeed :roll:

How so? This is about events that happened during the first world war. There is no connection to nazism or even the second world war.

Difool

01-11-2010, 09:15 AM

Why would Oil and Gas prices go up for them? According to many posters here and the Russian government itself, Russia charges market price, as the day of subsidizing other countries is over.

The SU isn't anymore. Capitalism reigns. Why should they keep the prize lower than usual especially if a former brother country tries to politically loosen it's friendship with Russia.
But this is all not a big deal. What is bothering me most is that the peoples of Russia, Belorus and Ukraine share a long common history. The peoples are mixed up a big part and speak the same language (yes indeed). The politicians should leave their ego and personal ambitions aside and do what is best for their people. And the motto should be: we're one family.
Maybe all this will lead to a seperation of the West Ukraine, but maybe it's the best choice. I just hope no blood will be shed again.

Steak-Sauce

01-11-2010, 10:24 AM

The peoples are mixed up a big part and speak the same language (yes indeed). The politicians should leave their ego and personal ambitions aside and do what is best for their people. And the motto should be: we're one family.

Maybe these people, no matter if they are Russian, Belorus or Ukraine, share also a common "they are just politicians who talk" attitude and don't give a damn. A holiday is a holiday. People, worker can stay at home if they are lucky, and be with their families or do stuff they wanted to do for a long time.

If I would be in Ukraine, I couldn't care less about this holiday. Not everyone thinks "Oh noes, this will lead to a bloody warz with mighty Russia!!!1". People want to live their lives, work, earn money, be happy. Regardless in which country.

My 2 cents.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 10:41 AM

The SU isn't anymore. Capitalism reigns. Why should they keep the prize lower than usual especially if a former brother country tries to politically loosen it's friendship with Russia.
Ukraine has the monopoly on the Russian gas and partly oil transit to Europe, so it is entitled to demand low prices for gas and oil or fix very high prices for the gas and oil transit. It is quite capitalist approach that Ukraine has never fully applied.

And the motto should be: we're one family.
Maybe all this will lead to a seperation of the West Ukraine, but maybe it's the best choice. I just hope no blood will be shed again. And it is written by a Russian runaway from “big family” to Germany. The best choice for you and your colleagues is to start cure your Russian chauvinist imbecility.

Russianlynxy

01-11-2010, 10:42 AM

Maybe these people, no matter if they are Russian, Belorus or Ukraine, share also a common "they are just politicians who talk" attitude and don't give a damn. A holiday is a holiday. People, worker can stay at home if they are lucky, and be with their families or do stuff they wanted to do for a long time.

If I would be in Ukraine, I couldn't care less about this holiday. Not everyone thinks "Oh noes, this will lead to a bloody warz with mighty Russia!!!1". People want to live their lives, work, earn money, be happy. Regardless in which country.

My 2 cents.

Well this would normally be the case. But this type of holiday isn't meant to be "for the people" it's just political PR.

Difool

01-11-2010, 10:50 AM

And it is written by a Russian runaway from “big family” to Germany. The best choice for you and your colleagues is to start cure your Russian chauvinist imbecility.
And who might that Russian guy be? I was born 1976 in Hamburg and this city is still German afaik.
Nice try, but ....

Difool

01-11-2010, 10:50 AM

sorry double post

Satorius

01-11-2010, 10:59 AM

And who might that Russian guy be? I was born 1976 in Hamburg and this city is still German afaik.
Nice try, but ....

If you have nothing to do with the post-Soviet states, you'd better just shut up and and stop your repeating nonsence about big and happy familly as well as stop your calling on splitting Ukraine as any such serious attempt will cause bloody war. Besides calling on splitting foreign states is likely to be a crime in Germany because of its nazi-heritage of splitting other central European states.

Lector

01-11-2010, 11:00 AM

Ukraine has the monopoly on the Russian gas and partly oil transit to Europe, so it is entitled to demand low prices for gas and oil or fix very high prices for the gas and oil transit. It is quite capitalist approach that Ukraine has never fully applied.

Monopoly? There are other streams, of course not so powerful as Ukrainian one, that pump gas into Europe. And don't forget about North and South Streams, which will be built.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/8180/gaseurope.th.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/gaseurope.gif/)

Satorius

01-11-2010, 11:06 AM

Monopoly? There are other streams, of course not so powerful as Ukrainian one, that pump gas into Europe. And don't forget about North and South Streams, which will be built.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/8180/gaseurope.th.gif (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/gaseurope.gif/)

Ukraine transits about 80 percent of Russia’s gas to European consumers. So it is quite comparable to monopoly

Difool

01-11-2010, 11:14 AM

If you have nothing to do with the post-Soviet states, you'd better just shut up and and stop your repeating nonsence about big and happy familly as well as stop your calling on splitting Ukraine as any such serious attempt will cause bloody war. Besides calling on splitting foreign states is likely to be a crime in Germany because of its nazi-heritage of splitting other central European states.

1. I have never said that I've got nothing to do with the former SU and it's people.
2. I don't care if you want me to shut up.
3. You obviously misunderstood my comment on splitting.
4. I think I know German law better than you.
5. Refering to 2.: You know what manners are? Keep them.
6. Are you qualified to discuss here? Are you Ukrainian?

Lector

01-11-2010, 11:17 AM

Ukraine transits about 80 percent of Russia’s gas to European consumers. So it is quite comparable to monopoly

It won't last for long though. These 80 percent will vanish as soon as new streams will be built.

Xaito

01-11-2010, 11:23 AM

If you have nothing to do with the post-Soviet states, you'd better just shut up and and stop your repeating nonsence about big and happy familly as well as stop your calling on splitting Ukraine as any such serious attempt will cause bloody war. Besides calling on splitting foreign states is likely to be a crime in Germany because of its nazi-heritage of splitting other central European states.

so you wouldn't be happy if he was Russian and you aren't happy that he isn't?
Man, you're pathetic - why don't you shut up instead?

Satorius

01-11-2010, 11:27 AM

It won't last for long though. These 80 percent will vanish as soon as new streams will be built.

We live in present and not in future. Lower prices for Ukraine have been well-motivated from capitalist point of view. There is no RF's charity as somebody tries to present it.

Lector

01-11-2010, 11:32 AM

I am a Ukrainian, live in Kyiv, Ukraine. Just remember for future Most of Ukrainians can't bear when different Nazi chauvenist scum whether it is Russian or German dares to utter something about splitting Ukraine.
Kiyv you say, i thought you'd live in Lviv. No offence, just your comments are similar to those that are made by *uhum well i won't use this word ^^* in bigmir.net or any other major Ukrainian news webpage.

Difool

01-11-2010, 11:38 AM

I am a Ukrainian, live in Kyiv, Ukraine. Just remember for future Most of Ukrainians can't bear when different Nazi chauvenist scum whether it is Russian or German dares to utter something about splitting Ukraine.
Oh yes, the forum is yours. Please excuse the foreign intervention in national interests.
I thought Yushenko's lot are interested in closer relations with us. But I'm not sad if not so.

So, I am chauvinist Nazi scum, eh? You seem to know very much about me. But why should I take the Russian side since they are Untermenschen, then? If we speak about unified Ukraine we should also speak about the Ukrainian occupied Polish territories and todays Polish borders. You should think about unification of Poland. But what with the Russian parts then? Oh it's a mess.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 11:47 AM

Kiyv you say, i thought you'd live in Lviv. No offence, just your comments are similar to those that are made by *uhum well i won't use this word ^^* in bigmir.net or any other major Ukrainian news webpage.

Wow, you mean Ukrainian news webpages are available only for inhabitants of Lviv. Another typical demonstration of Russian chauvenist imbecility about bad Ukrainians in the west. Though I have to dissapoint you the real world does not resemble your morbid Nazi-like and racist outlook based on dividing Ukrainian people into two sorts.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 11:53 AM

What's wrong is, a new holiday is created to divide two nations.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 11:53 AM

Oh yes, the forum is yours. Please excuse the foreign intervention in national interests.
I thought Yushenko's lot are interested in closer relations with us. But I'm not sad if not so.

So, I am chauvinist Nazi scum, eh? You seem to know very much about me. But why should I take the Russian side since they are Untermenschen, then? If we speak about unified Ukraine we should also speak about the Ukrainian occupied Polish territories and todays Polish borders. You should think about unification of Poland. But what with the Russian parts then? Oh it's a mess.

It is a Nazi-like attitude to call on splitting states. You will be only happy if Ukrainian Untermenschen will be killing Russian Untermenschen and vice versa, as it could destroy Ukraine and weaken Russia, right?

Lector

01-11-2010, 11:56 AM

Wow, you mean Ukrainian news webpages are available only for inhabitants of Lviv. Another typical demonstration of Russian chauvenist imbecility about bad Ukrainians in the west. Though I have to dissapoint you the real world does not resemble your morbid Nazi-like and racist outlook based on dividing Ukrainian people into two sorts.
Before opening your sewer again, think twice. I know how things are in Ukrainian news webpages and this comparison was more like a joke. Racist? ROFLMAO , first time in my life i've been called racist. You don't even understand what racist means.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 11:57 AM

What's wrong is, a new holiday is created to divide two nations.

Have you slept for the last 20 years. Wake up. Ukraine and RF are two separate states and two separate nations. There is no need two separate them as they are separated.

TakeIt

01-11-2010, 12:00 PM

Guys, do not feed the troll. Even if it is funny, retarded and ultranationalistic.

Difool

01-11-2010, 12:02 PM

It is a Nazi-like attitude to call on splitting states. You will be only happy if Ukrainian Untermenschen will be killing Russian Untermenschen and vice versa, as it could destroy Ukraine and weaken Russia, right?

As I said you know me well. If you want to keep unity I suggest you vote for a candidate respecting all peoples living in your country. Help stopping that ridiculous Ukrainian Nazi-chauvinism with banning the Russian language from TV and public institution. Be friendly to your most important neighbour in the east.
And last but not least: it won't serve you well to call every second poster here a Nazi. (Got something to do with the manners I mentioned before)

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:03 PM

Before opening your sewer again, think twice. I know how things are in Ukrainian news webpages and this comparison was more like a joke. Racist? ROFLMAO , first time in my life i've been called racist. You don't even understand what racist means.

I understand what it means and it is based on separating people into good and bad according to their culture, language, geographical location, ethnicity just like Russian chauvenists separate Ukrainians in their mind according to geographical locations.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:10 PM

As I said you know me well. If you want to keep unity I suggest you vote for a candidate respecting all peoples living in your country. Help stopping that ridiculous Ukrainian Nazi-chauvinism with banning the Russian language from TV and public institution. Be friendly to your most important neighbour in the east.
And last but not least: it won't serve you well to call every second poster here a Nazi. (Got something to do with the manners I mentioned before)

You don't know what are you talking about. You are a liar.

There is plenty of Russain language on TV. There are two national channels Inter and Ukraina broadcating mainly in Russian

http://inter.ua/ru/

http://kanalukraina.tv/

plus lots of local mass media in Russian, Russian language is allowed to be used even in courts.

May I ask you why Germany does not introduce the Turkish language as the state one at least in some areas? Why do you discriminate Turks?
Why does not France introduce Arabic as the state language? Why does it continue its policy based on notion to turn Arabs and otehr Muslims into Frencg-speaking Frenchmen?

Lector

01-11-2010, 12:15 PM

I understand what it means and it is based on separating people into good and bad according to its culture, language, ethnicity just like Russian chauvenists separate Ukrainians in their mind according to geographical locations.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but according some some inhabitants of Western Ukraine they are the real Ukrainians and that they have nothing in common with Eastern Ukrainians and capital of Ukraine should be Lviv. I do understand that not all people living in Lviv are like that. I remember all the dirt that was thrown on Eastern Ukrainians. However it's also vice-versa, i don't know when the line between these two regions was drawn.

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:15 PM

eh, who cares anyway? Let Ukraine be another country teething at the teet of the USA, which eventually will stop gaining support funds. Not to mention, Oil and Gas will go up for them, as well as many companies would leave Ukraine, dropping them even further in terms of business.

You would be in shock, how? Russia, USA and other countries has been meddling in Ukrainian affairs for a while now.

- well russia obviously cares :) While Ukraine is long ago buying gas at regular prices, I also think think russia should stop celbrating WW2 for deepening the divide with Germany, stop celebrating Donski victory over the Molgols and not celbrate Poltava as it deepens the relationship with Sweeden and Ukraine.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:17 PM

Have you slept for the last 20 years. Wake up. Ukraine and RF are two separate states and two separate nations. There is no need two separate them as they are separated.

Ok, let's presume they have nothing in common. You have a neighbor, would you rather have good relations with him or piss him off?

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:19 PM

I remember all the dirt that was thrown on Eastern Ukrainians. However it's also vice-versa, i don't know when the line between these two regions was drawn.

Examplify?

Frutzel

01-11-2010, 12:19 PM

May I ask you why Germany does not introduce the Turkish language as the state one at least in some areas? Why do you discriminate Turks?
Why does not France introduce Arabic as the state language? Why does it continue its policy based on notion to turn Arabs and otehr Muslims into Frencg-speaking Frenchmen?

Since we have not lived next to the Turks for hundreds of years this argument is pretty retarded you know.

Derbedeu

01-11-2010, 12:20 PM

Ok, let's presume they have nothing in common. You have a neighbor, would you rather have good relations with him or piss him off?

Why should it piss them off? Britain still celebrates the victory at Trafalgar. I don't see the French people or government getting pissed off.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:20 PM

- well russia obviously cares :) While Ukraine is long ago buying gas at regular prices, I also think think russia should stop celbrating WW2 for deepening the divide with Germany, stop celebrating Donski victory over the Molgols and not celbrate Poltava as it deepens the relationship with Sweeden and Ukraine.

There's a difference between celebrating something had has been celebrated for years, and creating a new holiday to create a conflict. This thread is a proof that Yushenko's decision only creates ****storms between people.

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:21 PM

Ok, let's presume they have nothing in common. You have a neighbor, would you rather have good relations with him or piss him off?

- Don't you think you are pissing Ukraine off by reacting to Ukrainian internal affairs? I couldn't care less about what russians celebrate be it Poltava or Ghengis Khan's birthday, so I would expect the same from your people.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:22 PM

- Don't you think you are pissing Ukraine off by reacting to Ukrainian internal affairs? I couldn't care less about what russians celebrate be it Poltava or Ghengis Khan's birthday, so I would expect the same from your people.

Perhaps, every action has a reaction.

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:23 PM

There's a difference between celebrating something had has been celebrated for years, and creating a new holiday to create a conflict. This thread is a proof that Yushenko's decision only creates ****storms between people.

- What a lousy argument :) Why is russian celbrating the new Unity day then? Its to commeorate expulsion of Poles from Moscow . How dare you divide the deepning relatikons with Poland? Stop dividing the russian nation and offending its neighbours!

Lector

01-11-2010, 12:25 PM

- well russia obviously cares :) While Ukraine is long ago buying gas at regular prices, I also think think russia should stop celbrating WW2 for deepening the divide with Germany, stop celebrating Donski victory over the Molgols and not celbrate Poltava as it deepens the relationship with Sweeden and Ukraine.
Ukraine isn't buying gas at regular prices, prices are rising slowly so that Ukraine could adapt to the growing prices. Russia is still selling gas to Ukraine for cheaper price.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:25 PM

- What a lousy argument :) Why is russian celbrating the new Unity day then? Its to commeorate expulsion of Poles from Moscow . How dare you divide the deepning relatikons with Poland? Stop dividing the russian nation and offending its neighbours!

No clue, my life was just as good before this celebration was added, and i don't think Russia benefits something from that holiday.

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:26 PM

Perhaps, every action has a reaction.

- If russia was not to stick nose in Ukrainian affairs then everything would be ok. Even by posting such article on the forum, it shows that russian members are quite disturbed by the fact that Ukraine has its own military history.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:26 PM

Since we have not lived next to the Turks for hundreds of years this argument is pretty retarded you know.

So you position is that Germany should discriminate and germanize Turks for hundreds of years and then you will consider the issue of the second language when most of Turks is likely to switch to German as their main language?
It is the realisation of the slogan Germany for ethnic Germans. In fact Turks in Germany does not have even 5 per cent of language and cultural previlages analogical to the ones of Russians in modern Ukraine

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:27 PM

Ukraine isn't buying gas at regular prices, prices are rising slowly so that Ukraine could adapt to the growing prices. Russia is still selling gas to Ukraine for cheaper price.

- Ok, thats fine with me. Russia is still getting a chep rent for the Black Sea naval basis. So I think russian forumers should stop whining about "cheap gas" to Ukraine, considering that we give them discounts too.

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:27 PM

- If russia was not to stick nose in Ukrainian affairs then everything would be ok. Even by posting such article on the forum, it shows that russian members are quite disturbed by the fact that Ukraine has its own military history.

Freedom of expression buddy. By adding that holiday, you do not make the relations between two countries any better.

Lector

01-11-2010, 12:30 PM

Examplify?
Open news.bigmir.net or any other Ukrainian webpage and read the comments. Dirt is being thrown at each other from both sides.

Askold

01-11-2010, 12:30 PM

Freedom of expression buddy. By adding that holiday, you do not make the relations between two countries any better.

- Freedom of choice. Ukraine is free to do what it want, however by constantly attacking Ukraine, russians are the ones responsible for Ukrainians not liking them.

Frutzel

01-11-2010, 12:31 PM

So you position is that Germany should discriminate and germanized Turks for hundreds of years and then you will consider the issue of the second language when most of Turks is likely to switch to German as their main language?
It is the realisation of to the slogan Germany for ethnic Germans. In fact Turks does not have even 5 per cent of language and cultural previlages analogical to the ones of Russians in modern Ukraine

I don't know whats wrong in your head but don't bother replying again to me. Nice way to twist words

Lector

01-11-2010, 12:33 PM

- Freedom of choice. Ukraine is free to do what it want, however by constantly attacking Ukraine, russians are the ones responsible for Ukrainians not liking them.
If you are writing Ukrainians with capital U, then you can as well write Russians with capital R
As for Black Fleet Naval base, i could add my point of view, but you won't like it.

Kutuzov

01-11-2010, 12:35 PM

- Freedom of choice. Ukraine is free to do what it want, however by constantly attacking Ukraine, russians are the ones responsible for Ukrainians not liking them.

Attacking you ? Hardly worth the time.

- fact that Ukraine has its own military history.

You know its funny, one Ukranian(see i use capitals) guy told me how Ukraine captured Crimea from Turks and Tatars. I'm guessing you find this historically accurate too?

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:37 PM

Attacking you ? Hardly worth the time.

I second that, those "Ukrs" are paranoid .

Tank34

01-11-2010, 12:37 PM

You don't know what are you talking about. You are a liar.
There are Russain language on TV. There are two national channels Inter and Ukraina broadcating mainly in Russian plus lots of local mass media in Russian, Russian language is allowed to be used even in courts.
May I ask you why Germany does not introduce the Turkish language as the state one at least in some areas? Why do you discriminate Turks?
Why does not France introduce Arabic as the state language? Why does it continue its policy based on notion to turn Arabs and otehr Muslims into Frencg-speaking Frenchmen?
Actually better ask why Germany does not introduce Russian language not as the state, but at least as the official language of minority.(or how it is calles in Germany? Just like Danish language) This is question that i would be glad to be raised by some legal experts (or how would be "pravozashytniky" in English). And this question is more important for "ze evil Russkies" chauvinists than Turkish language(they have almost the same presense in German population as i remember).
Do not know anything about France and they language policy.

But Russian regions choice their official language by themselves(in addition to Russian). We just want the same politic for Ukraine. So east can choice by themself, if they want. It is would be democratic.
Although Russian is the only federally official language of the Russian Federation, there are several other officially-recognized languages within Russia's various constituencies. This is a list of languages that are official only in certain parts of Russia.

List of official languages by regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia

We want the same in east Ukraine. Not just in Crimea.

Difool

01-11-2010, 12:39 PM

- Freedom of choice. Ukraine is free to do what it want, however by constantly attacking Ukraine, russians are the ones responsible for Ukrainians not liking them.

Ukraine got the free choice, but it's politically and maybe even ethnically divided. So if there isn't one only voice speaking, what's the Ukrainian way then? And it's not only the Russians that are trying to gain more influence in this critical situation. A big part of the current tensions are wester made. But we've already discussed that (who sponsores what party and so on) so I won't start it again.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:40 PM

Open news.bigmir.net or any other Ukrainian webpage and read the comments. Dirt is being thrown at each other from both sides.

It has to do with vivid political life, candidate preferences in the elections but not geography. The quarrels between some arch Rebublican and arch Democrat in the US can be also described as thorwing dirt. Or quarrels between supporters of Italian prime-minister and his opponents are just the same.

You see it is only the RF where political life is quiet like the graveyard at night.

Satorius

01-11-2010, 12:45 PM

Ukraine got the free choice, but it's politically and maybe even ethnically divided. So if there isn't one only voice speaking, what's the Ukrainian way then? And it's not only the Russians that are trying to gain more influence in this critical situation. A big part of the current tensions are wester made. But we've already discussed that (who sponsores what party and so on) so I won't start it again.

Ethnically divided? You don't know the basic things about Ukraine

http://www.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/nationality/

Ukrainians are the majority in every region of Ukraine and have been the majority across Ukraine even according to the previous Soviet censuses.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 12:49 PM

You see it is only the RF where political life is quiet like the graveyard at night.

And ain't here the reason why current Russian regime so desperently needs a foreign enemy,.....wheather it's Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics Poland and so.....As long it not to big and strong....
Country(Russia) has no political life, bud it dosen't mean people don't have intrests in this, so you create a enemy,....as long a fight with this enemy will keep people in front of a "zombie-box"....

Mr.K

01-11-2010, 12:53 PM

Ethnically divided? You don't know the basic things about Ukraine

http://www.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/nationality/

Ukrainians are the majority in every region of Ukraine and have been the majority across Ukraine even according to the previous Soviet censuses.

Two words : "STATE STATISTCIS" :) You and the other guy remind me of the Ukrainian immigrant in the Seinfeld risk skit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

And ain't here the reason why current Russian regime so desperently needs a foreign enemy,.....wheather it's Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics Poland and so.....As long it not to big and strong....
Country(Russia) has no political life, bud it dosen't mean people don't have intrests in this, so you create a enemy,....as long a fight with this enemy will keep people in front of a "zombie-box"....

Oh yes, "political life" makes a life much easier and enjoyable. What would we do without a political life.

Lector

01-11-2010, 12:54 PM

And ain't here the reason why current Russian regime so desperently needs a foreign enemy,.....wheather it's Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics Poland and so.....As long it not to big and strong....
Country(Russia) has no political life, bud it dosen't mean people don't have intrests in this, so you create a enemy,....as long a fight with this enemy will keep people in front of a "zombie-box"....
/Sarcasm on

Russia is bad, Russians are zombies

/Sarcasm off

P.S. Posting this link just for the lulz http://www.interfax.com.ua/eng/main/29514/ 2k observers from one country. /Facepalm

Difool

01-11-2010, 12:59 PM

Finaly that guy got suspended. I'd suggest everybody to calm down now. I'll take a little break.

Statistics do always represent what you want them to show.

Askold

01-11-2010, 01:01 PM

If you are writing Ukrainians with capital U, then you can as well write Russians with capital R
As for Black Fleet Naval base, i could add my point of view, but you won't like it.

- Freedom of expression buddy.

Askold

01-11-2010, 01:01 PM

Attacking you ? Hardly worth the time.

You know its funny, one Ukranian(see i use capitals) guy told me how Ukraine captured Crimea from Turks and Tatars. I'm guessing you find this historically accurate too?

- By responding to this thread, you clearly shows you have the time :)

Lector

01-11-2010, 01:04 PM

- Freedom of expression buddy.
Freedom of expression? No, just plain disrespect :)

Xaito

01-11-2010, 01:09 PM

- Freedom of choice. Ukraine is free to do what it want, however by constantly attacking Ukraine, russians are the ones responsible for Ukrainians not liking them.

Nobody is denying Ukraine to do what it wants - it's just that I and obviously some other people here think it's really sad and wrong what Yushenko is doing with Ukraine.
His actions often come across as nationalistic and anti-Russian - and they're so frequent that it's definitely no imagination.
What makes things even more sad imho is that both Georgian and Ukrainian Presidents are imported/installed puppets so I don't believe they act in their nations or peoples interest.

Banko

01-11-2010, 01:15 PM

You don't know what are you talking about. You are a liar.

There is plenty of Russain language on TV. There are two national channels Inter and Ukraina broadcating mainly in Russian

http://inter.ua/ru/

http://kanalukraina.tv/

plus lots of local mass media in Russian, Russian language is allowed to be used even in courts.

May I ask you why Germany does not introduce the Turkish language as the state one at least in some areas? Why do you discriminate Turks?
Why does not France introduce Arabic as the state language? Why does it continue its policy based on notion to turn Arabs and otehr Muslims into Frencg-speaking Frenchmen?
I was in Kiev, Ukraine a year ago (I myself come from Kiev), and when I was switching the channels and seeing that they were dubbing the Russian Winnie Pooh, and Carlson was outright retarded when in my 2 weeks there I didn't see anyone speaking Ukrainian to each other, other then some farmers that were selling Milk in a Bazar.

Philareth

01-11-2010, 01:16 PM

But Russian regions choice their official language by themselves(in addition to Russian). We just want the same politic for Ukraine. So east can choice by themself, if they want. It is would be democratic.
Although Russian is the only federally official language of the Russian Federation, there are several other officially-recognized languages within Russia's various constituencies. This is a list of languages that are official only in certain parts of Russia.

List of official languages by regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia

We want the same in east Ukraine. Not just in Crimea.

Sorry for interrupting, but as far as I remember, Ukraine isn't a federation, so maybe it's simply impossible to make Russian as the second official language only at the eastern part of Ukraine like that was done with local languages in RF.
Just for me, as far as I can speak Russian freely there and everybody understands me, I see no problems with this issue.

smile

01-11-2010, 01:17 PM

Ethnically divided? You don't know the basic things about Ukraine

True, only you and your friend hiver (you know who that is) know the basics. Last time when Ushenko was in east Ukraine many city shops have this sign of peace, love and understanding http://www.zabor.zp.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27027 like this (just the first site from google-search).
And btw this Ukraine has the monopoly on the Russian gas . Now the have 80 percent, and in few years there are things like North Stream, South Stream and Nabucco. Many small european countries would be happy about to have many sources and not to be hostage of the current president of Ukraine and his caprice. Times change. Changes are everywhere.

Lector

01-11-2010, 01:24 PM

True, only you and your friend hiver (you know who that is). Last time when Ushenko was in east Ukraine many city shops have this sign of peace, love and understanding http://www.zabor.zp.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27027 like this (just the first site from google-search).

True story, i totally forgot about this. All shop signs that were written in Russian language were covered or modified in any other way when Yushchenko was visiting Eastern Ukraine.

igorvasilevsky

01-11-2010, 01:43 PM

Guys, this "Askold" is a famous nationalist and Bandera lover. What do you expect from him? Ushenko and nazists are his idols...

Tank34

01-11-2010, 01:50 PM

Sorry for interrupting, but as far as I remember, Ukraine isn't a federation, so maybe it's simply impossible to make Russian as the second official language only at the eastern part of Ukraine like that was done with local languages in RF.
And how it is impossible? I just see the infringement of the rights of the large part of population. And this part have the same language as mine, so i can see this as act of offense against my nationality and my language. So i awaiting from my government the pressure on such country in international political and economical sphere. It is you right to decide which language would be official, but if i see the infringement of the rights of my ethic group be ready for consequences.

gazell

01-11-2010, 01:52 PM

Sorry for interrupting, but as far as I remember, Ukraine isn't a federation, so maybe it's simply impossible to make Russian as the second official language only at the eastern part of Ukraine like that was done with local languages in RF.
Just for me, as far as I can speak Russian freely there and everybody understands me, I see no problems with this issue.

Are you naive or something else?

igorvasilevsky

01-11-2010, 01:58 PM

Tank34

01-11-2010, 02:08 PM

This is exactly what these nazi fans want. But they don't understand that bad relations with such country like Russia with thousand years of common history is a way to nowhere. And that's why they are well-known traitors in Ukraine. Nobody cares about them. Such provocations and flame on international forums is the only way to remind people about them. "Look at me!! We are so important!"
Actually there is nothing bad in such relations. Ukraine is independent country, and thousands years of common history means now nothing. This is the way what our parents choose in 1991. So actually it is the way in to the future. With strict economical and political relations.

I just want that my language would not be vanished by force from Ukraine. And want from my government to make pressure to extent when rights of my ethic and language group would be guaranteed.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 02:12 PM

tommy00

01-11-2010, 02:17 PM

I just want that my language would not be vanished by force from Ukraine. And want from my government to make pressure to extent when rights of my ethic and language group would be guaranteed.

BTW, let's say, Ukraine will point russian a second official language next to ukrainian.....What woul'd it change for a russian living there....
They still HAVE TO learn to speak ukrainian....It only changes life of a ukrainians, they have to learn to speak russian,(wich most can anyway)...
Having more then one official language, dosen't mean you can choose between them, no, you have to know them all

gazell

01-11-2010, 02:24 PM

BTW, let's say, Ukraine will point russian a second official language next to ukrainian.....What woul'd it change for a russian living there....
They still HAVE TO learn to speak ukrainian....It only changes life of a ukrainians, they have to learn to speak russian,(wich most can anyway)...
Having more then one official language, dosen't mean you can choose between them, no, you have to know them all

Any sense made there at all?

tommy00

01-11-2010, 02:32 PM

I just want that my language would not be vanished by force from Ukraine.

A and, don't you think, that ukrainians coul'd be thinking exactly same way. And, after a Soviet "happytimes" they perhaps had more reason to then russians.

Tank34

01-11-2010, 02:42 PM

A and, don't you think, that ukrainians coul'd be thinking exactly same way. And, after a Soviet "happytimes" they perhaps had more reason to then russians.

Russians is a minority in Ukraine. And it is minority which now oppressed in Ukraine by such language politic.This is what important.
And what about soviet times, it is was one country. Unlike Estonia Ukraine was not occupied(except maybe some west parts, which i think would better for all to be in Poland).
They share responsibilities for all soviets crimes. So you remark about soviet times just stupid.

Stormz_STA

01-11-2010, 02:51 PM

...except maybe some west parts, which i think would better for all to be in Poland...

No, thank you.
Seriously though, why do you want to divide Ukraine? I'm sure most Ukrainians, whether they come from the east of the west of the country, wouldn't be so happy about that.

Philareth

01-11-2010, 02:51 PM

And how it is impossible? I just see the infringement of the rights of the large part of population. And this part have the same language as mine, so i can see this as act of offense against my nationality and my language. So i awaiting from my government the pressure on such country in international political and economical sphere. It is you right to decide which language would be official, but if i see the infringement of the rights of my ethic group be ready for consequences.
Yeah, I get your point. I have almost the same one. The only thing I can't understand, how is it possible to divide (in fact) an unitary republic by language parameter? For example, it results in a mess in paperwork between state institutions from different part of Ukraine, 'cos one part of them will be in Ukrainian and other will be in Russian. It would be huge headache for ministries and agencies.
Even in Russia pupils (from e.g. Tatarstan) have to write Unified State Exam only in Russian...
So in this case I still can't agree with russian language as a second official one in Ukraine.
The only real and positive thing that our Goverment should do is to insist on performance of exisitng laws about languages and minorities in Ukraine, so Russian schools, films, books iin Russian wouldn't dissapear as it happens now...

tommy00

01-11-2010, 02:56 PM

Russians is a minority in Ukraine. And it is minority which now oppressed in Ukraine by such language politic.This is what important.

They share responsibilities for all soviets crimes. So you remark about soviet times just stupid.

Oh, are turks opressed in Germany, cos all the signs in shops are in german, or in tv all programs(foreign) are "overspeaked" in german....and so on..
And what's with responsibilitys and Soviet crimes..???
I meant more the status of ukrainian language during "thouse times", if theme like "vanishing language in Ukraine" were mentioned....

Stormz_STA

01-11-2010, 02:59 PM

Then if it didn't hurt, then you wouldn't have bothered posting in response. In other words, you are trying to see if I am willing to make corrections.

Not really, I just like arguing with clueless people like you ;)

And no, it seems that most to all polish members here have something against anything Russian. Are you going to prove me right or wrong?

So at first it was "all Polish members", then "most Polish members" and now it's "most to to all Polish members". So which is it really?

tommy00

01-11-2010, 03:00 PM

.
Even in Russia pupils (from e.g. Tatarstan) have to write Unified State Exam only in Russian...
...

So, by logic used here, are tatars opressed in Russia..???

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:04 PM

Yeah, I get your point. I have almost the same one. The only thing I can't understand, how is it possible to divide (in fact) an unitary republic by language parameter?
Because i see preconditions for such division. Language, economical, political and historical. Remember that Ukraine was not always unite. Large part of it history it was split in two parts.
So it is not so unitary as you can think. I just want to cease possible future conflicts. IMHO it is would be much stable 2 countries after such division. But of course it is should be decided not by me. I can only think about such possibilities.

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:08 PM

So, by logic used here, are tatars opressed in Russia..???

I want that status of Russian language in East Ukraine would be just like Tatar language in Tatarstan. (it is have the rights of state language in Tatarstan, even if it is only 4-5% of Russian population are tatars)

De jure.

TakeIt

01-11-2010, 03:21 PM

I meant more the status of ukrainian language during "thouse times", if theme like "vanishing language in Ukraine" were mentioned....Oh, so what was that status exactly?

Philareth

01-11-2010, 03:21 PM

So, by logic used here, are tatars opressed in Russia..???
This is the question what should we name "to be opressed'. AFAIK in Tatarstan pupils are free to choose between education in their own language with Russian as second language subject or education in Russian only. So it's only their will by which program they study, it's written in the Constitution of Republic of Tatarstan.
In the other hand, as soon as 'the law of USE' declares Russian as the only language for the exams program, Tatars have to write all their state exams in Russian. Personally I don't name it opression, but if Tatars feel so they are free to appeal to the Constituon Court in order to restore justice, I think...

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:23 PM

Nobody is denying Ukraine to do what it wants - it's just that I and obviously some other people here think it's really sad and wrong what Yushenko is doing with Ukraine.
His actions often come across as nationalistic and anti-Russian - and they're so frequent that it's definitely no imagination.
What makes things even more sad imho is that both Georgian and Ukrainian Presidents are imported/installed puppets so I don't believe they act in their nations or peoples interest.

- I think constant intervention in Ukrainian internal affairs exactly is "denying Ukraine what it wants". As for Yuschenko, I can state exactly the same about Putin - his actions are nationalistic and anti-Ukrianian. But the difference between average Ukrainian and average russian is that we don't really care about what holliday you choose to celebrate or what color your flag is. Average russian tends to be super concerned for their "brotherly neighbour".

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:27 PM

This is exactly what these nazi fans want. But they don't understand that bad relations with such country like Russia with thousand years of common history is a way to nowhere. And that's why they are well-known traitors in Ukraine. Nobody cares about them. Such provocations and flame on international forums is the only way to remind people about them. "Look at me!! We are so important!"

- Here, this statement would make much more truth if we were to replace the terms:

his is exactly what these nazi fans want. But they don't understand that bad relations with such country like UKRAINE with thousand years of common history is a way to nowhere. And that's why they are well-known traitors in RUSSIA. Nobody cares about them. Such provocations and flame on international forums is the only way to remind people about them. "Look at me!! We are so important!

- So my advice to you and others - stop being such nazi traitors and provoke the flame wars! :lol:

Lector

01-11-2010, 03:28 PM

But the difference between average Ukrainian and average russian is that we don't really care about what holliday you choose to celebrate or what color your flag is. Average russian tends to be super concerned for their "brotherly neighbour".
Orly? Then why all topics that include anything about Russia are swarmed within few seconds with numberless comments? Talking about Ukrainian news webpages.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:29 PM

Russians is a minority in Ukraine. And it is minority which now oppressed in Ukraine by such language politic.This is what important.
And what about soviet times, it is was one country. Unlike Estonia Ukraine was not occupied(except maybe some west parts, which i think would better for all to be in Poland).
They share responsibilities for all soviets crimes. So you remark about soviet times just stupid.

- Yes, russians are a minority in Ukraine but asking them to learn the official language is not an oppression. In any country, the locals would like the immigrants to learn the native language.

Paya

01-11-2010, 03:30 PM

Oh, are turks opressed in Germany, cos all the signs in shops are in german, or in tv all programs(foreign) are "overspeaked" in german....and so on..
And what's with responsibilitys and Soviet crimes..???
I meant more the status of ukrainian language during "thouse times", if theme like "vanishing language in Ukraine" were mentioned....
You are comparing immigrants with people who were, like their ancestors, born in what is now the Ukraine.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:31 PM

Orly? Then why all topics that include anything about Russia are swarmed within few seconds with numberless comments? Talking about Ukrainian news webpages.

- What comments are you talking about? To me it seems any topic on Ukraine is right away being swarmed with russian pseudo-patriots. Just look at this topic. A negative post on Ukriane by russian members and 13 pages worth of shouvenistic posts by more russian members. A pefect example of relations between our people.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:32 PM

You are comparing immigrants with people who were, like their ancestors, born in what is now the Ukraine.

- Many Turks were born in Germany too, just like Albanians who were born in Kosova. You can't be only partially fare to one group and exlude the others.

P.S. You don't have to write "The" in front of Ukraine. Its just Ukraine :)

TakeIt

01-11-2010, 03:33 PM

- I think constant intervention in Ukrainian internal affairs exactly is "denying Ukraine what it wants". And those interventions are? Anyway, both countries interact and pursue thier goals, so you cannot deny Russia having own interests in Ukraine and vice versa.

Average russian tends to be super concerned for their "brotherly neighbour". BS. Amount of ukrainians on russian news channels and forums are equally great.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:36 PM

And those interventions are? Anyway, both countries interact and pursue thier goals, so you cannot deny Russia having own interests in Ukraine and vice versa.

BS. Amount of ukrainians on russian news channels and forums are equally great.

- Havent you read this whole topic? Russian reaction is an exact example of what you are talking about. You don't see Ukrainians posting negative things on russia.

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:40 PM

I meant more the status of ukrainian language during "thouse times", if theme like "vanishing language in Ukraine" were mentioned....
Hm. You should learn history. Actually where was even active politic of ukrainization in Ukraine SSR in some parts of history of USSR.

Paya

01-11-2010, 03:41 PM

- Many Turks were born in Germany too, just like Albanians who were born in Kosova. You can't be only partially fare to one group and exlude the others.
Still not comparable. Albanians have lived in Kosovo for centuries, just like Russians in Ukraine.

P.S. You don't have to write "The" in front of Ukraine. Its just Ukraine :)
Sorry.

Lector

01-11-2010, 03:41 PM

- What comments are you talking about? To me it seems any topic on Ukraine is right away being swarmed with russian pseudo-patriots. Just look at this topic. A negative post on Ukriane by russian members and 13 pages worth of shouvenistic posts by more russian members. A pefect example of relations between our people.
Sigh, this hypocrisy... First of all, it's not up to you to judge who are pseudo and who are real patriots. Second, almost every Russian topic is being swarmed by people too, some of them posting negative comments, some of them positive. It's ALWAYS vice-versa. I'm reading Ukrainian news webpages with their forums or chat boards since 888, so i know how the situation looks like. Every single topic about Russia or some Russian activities, be it sport etc turns into flame war. There's no difference between avarage Russian and Ukrainian, both are curious.

Lector

01-11-2010, 03:43 PM

- Havent you read this whole topic? Russian reaction is an exact example of what you are talking about. You don't see Ukrainians posting negative things on russia.
Of course Satorius wasn't posting negative things about Russia. /Sarcasm off

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:43 PM

- Yes, russians are a minority in Ukraine but asking them to learn the official language is not an oppression. In any country, the locals would like the immigrants to learn the native language.

I want the same status for Russian language in Ukraine just as tatar language in Tatarstan. What happens now is oppresion in my opinion to very large part of population.

TakeIt

01-11-2010, 03:46 PM

- Havent you read this whole topic? So your opinion about whole Russian intervention is based on this topic and few posters that actually bothered to have a good laugh at the stupidity of the decree? Oh man...

Russian reaction is an exact example of what you are talking about. Well, i never imagined russian population shrank that much...

You don't see Ukrainians posting negative things on russia. Are you another basement-dweller? Gees, go to FUP - pletora of animals there.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 03:48 PM

We want the same in east Ukraine. Not just in Crimea.

I sort a think here's a problem....
As Tank says," we(russians) want this(whatever) happen in Ukraine"...
Bud it's not about what you want. You can want things happend in Russia....
In other places whishes of others count's
Not that ukrainians(or whoever) don't make mistakes, misjudges,....it happens everywhere....Bud even then it's their business....
So, you don't like some holyday,...well your problem.
Like, when Russia restored Soviet anthem, i didn't liked, bud it was'nt my country, so i didn't care....

sepheronx

01-11-2010, 03:49 PM

- Freedom of expression buddy.

I wouldn't call that freedom of expression.

And ain't here the reason why current Russian regime so desperently needs a foreign enemy,.....wheather it's Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics Poland and so.....As long it not to big and strong....
Country(Russia) has no political life, bud it dosen't mean people don't have intrests in this, so you create a enemy,....as long a fight with this enemy will keep people in front of a "zombie-box"....

I was waiting for you to rear your ugly head. This makes the thread even more interesting.

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:49 PM

Philareth

01-11-2010, 03:50 PM

- Havent you read this whole topic? Russian reaction is an exact example of what you are talking about. You don't see Ukrainians posting negative things on russia.
Hmm it seems to me that this is going on because many Russians see the similarities between present events in your country and events in our history not so long ago - in '91, '93 and very close to '96. The main difference is that maybe you're wise enough not to use our old and tested method to solve all these 'maidan' problems - just roll out tanks and look at the result...

Stonewall71

01-11-2010, 03:50 PM

17th January the clown gets such a big kick in the a$$ he will fly from Kiev to Sevastopol

Tank34

01-11-2010, 03:53 PM

I sort a think here's a problem....
As Tank says," we(russians) want this(whatever) happen in Ukraine"...
Bud it's not about what you want. You can want things happend in Russia....
In other places whishes of others count's
Not that ukrainians(or whoever) don't make mistakes, misjudges,....it happens everywhere....Bud even then it's their business....
So, you don't like some holyday,...well your problem.
Like, when Russia restored Soviet anthem, i didn't liked, bud it was'nt my country, so i didn't care....
Actually we can. It is for what we have government. They must defend our language. And defend the people of our nationality.

Just like West always concerned about human rights in Russia. So we are about human rights in Ukraine.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:54 PM

Sigh, this hypocrisy... First of all, it's not up to you to judge who are pseudo and who are real patriots. Second, almost every Russian topic is being swarmed by people too, some of them posting negative comments, some of them positive. It's ALWAYS vice-versa. I'm reading Ukrainian news webpages with their forums or chat boards since 888, so i know how the situation looks like. Every single topic about Russia or some Russian activities, be it sport etc turns into flame war. There's no difference between avarage Russian and Ukrainian, both are curious.

- Please don't give me generic and random info about "some" topics and forums. In this particuar forum, russian posters post only negative things about Ukraine (Ukraine Oplot tank topic is just one example). Don't give me examples about some other forums, as for every Ukrainian forum I can find you ten anti-Ukrainian russian forums. Lets not waste time on such matters.

P.S. Satorius can equal one russian poster, but again, nobody here from Ukrainian side is posting negative things about russia.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 03:56 PM

17th January the clown gets such a big kick in the a$$ he will fly from Kiev to Sevastopol

And lands right into a chair of a prime minister...:)
Does it matter....

sepheronx

01-11-2010, 03:56 PM

Not really, I just like arguing with clueless people like you ;)

So at first it was "all Polish members", then "most Polish members" and now it's "most to to all Polish members". So which is it really?

Ok, I will take back what I said, and say most hand out countries for the US.

And clueless eh? I don't see you providing anything beneficial to this thread.

This thread is becoming even more interesting. We got Polish, Estonians, Russians, Ukrainians, Germans and everyone in here. Who needs the United Nations when you got MP.net?

Everyone is now caring about Ukraine.

Askold

01-11-2010, 03:57 PM

I want the same status for Russian language in Ukraine just as tatar language in Tatarstan. What happens now is oppresion in my opinion to very large part of population.

- Very large part of population is freely using russian language on every day basis. You should stop reading russian media where they claim that we burn you at the stakes for speaking russian :) Another difference between Ukraine and russia is that Ukraine is mostly composed of one nation, while russia is multi-national. When Tadzhik becomes a second official language in russia, perhaps we'll think about it.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 03:59 PM

Actually we can. It is for what we have government. They must defend our language. And defend the people of our nationality.

Then you failed, and your government....
What did happen to a russians, Russian landuage and culture in Uzbekistan, Kazahstan,....you know, that place of a earth...???

sepheronx

01-11-2010, 04:00 PM

Then you failed, and your government....
What did happen to a russians, Russian landuage and culture in Uzbekistan, Kazahstan,....you know, that place of a earth...???

oooh oooh, tell me. I want to know.

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:00 PM

So your opinion about whole Russian intervention is based on this topic and few posters that actually bothered to have a good laugh at the stupidity of the decree? Oh man...

Well, i never imagined russian population shrank that much...

Are you another basement-dweller? Gees, go to FUP - pletora of animals there.

- No, but you asked for example and I provided you with one. You must be very naive to think that everything is beutifull when there is so much negativity.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 04:02 PM

So we are about human rights in Ukraine.

PS, Language on a shopsighs(and stuff) got noting to do with human rights...

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:02 PM

Hmm it seems to me that this is going on because many Russians see the similarities between present events in your country and events in our history not so long ago - in '91, '93 and very close to '96. The main difference is that maybe you're wise enough not to use our old and tested method to solve all these 'maidan' problems - just roll out tanks and look at the result...

- I think all the problems could be solved if russia was simply to mind its own business. For example, you don't see russians protesting that Finns have monument to Manerheim. Ofcourse not, who in their right mind would complain about what is happening in the other country? However in case of Ukraine and other former republics, russian things they can get away with interfearing. As result - strained relations with every neighbouring country, including even Belarus.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 04:03 PM

oooh oooh, tell me. I want to know.

Can't you then nothing learn on your own....

sepheronx

01-11-2010, 04:04 PM

- I think all the problems could be solved if russia was simply to mind its own business. For example, you don't see russians protesting that Finns have monument to Manerheim. Ofcourse not, who in their right mind would complain about what is happening in the other country? However in case of Ukraine and other former republics, russian things they can get away with interfearing. As result - strained relations with every neighbouring country, including even Belarus.

Really? Last time I checked, it was Belarus playing the hard to get card. Belarus along with Kazakhstan (believe it or not, it is also a former Soviet republic) wants to create a customs union. Intertwine their economies. Sounds strange for having strained relations.

Can't you then nothing learn on your own....

Wait? I thought you knew? Why post that rhetorical question?

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:06 PM

Actually we can. It is for what we have government. They must defend our language. And defend the people of our nationality.

Just like West always concerned about human rights in Russia. So we are about human rights in Ukraine.

- Ha ha, sounds like something out of Hitler's speach. No wonder fascism is so popular in present day russia. Well I think Ukraine should also defend its language, people and its nation and I think if we get bored we'll start investigating human rights in russia and demand the Tadjik langage to becoame official ;)

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:08 PM

Then you failed, and your government....
What did happen to a russians, Russian landuage and culture in Uzbekistan, Kazahstan,....you know, that place of a earth...???'

- Yes, its interesting how whole russian minorities got whipped out in the Middle Asian republics. Where were the russian screams of protests to UN then? Such cynism!

Tank34

01-11-2010, 04:09 PM

use our old and tested method to solve all these 'maidan' problems - just roll out tanks and look at the result...
Many in Russia now envy to Chinese. And they decision of crisis on Tiananmen Square. If we only know how much casualties would bring Elsin and his family with so called democrats. We lost almost 14 millions of people now because of these. 6 times rise in killings. War in Chechnya.

We do not need the East Europe or others now independent countries. Except Belorussia and Ukraine. So sad that we now divided.

TakeIt

01-11-2010, 04:09 PM

- Very large part of population is freely using russian language on every day basis. The question is not about private life, but the government and institutional level. Considering growing tendention to even report teachers, speaking in russian, situation is getting grim. Not to mention the unhealthy struggle to turn official Ukrainian language into Galician dialect. As the running joke tells: Yushenko is not trying to unite Ukraine together, he's trying to add Ukraine to the Galichina.

You should stop reading russian media where they claim that we burn you at the stakes for speaking russian This summer during Independence day celebration i heard similar proposals right on Maidan.

Another difference between Ukraine and russia is that Ukraine is mostly composed of one nation, while russia is multi-national. Do not mistake ethnicity with spoken language.

Lector

01-11-2010, 04:09 PM

- Please don't give me generic and random info about "some" topics and forums. In this particuar forum, russian posters post only negative things about Ukraine (Ukraine Oplot tank topic is just one example). Don't give me examples about some other forums, as for every Ukrainian forum I can find you ten anti-Ukrainian russian forums. Lets not waste time on such matters.

P.S. Satorius can equal one russian poster, but again, nobody here from Ukrainian side is posting negative things about russia.

Cause not so many Ukrainians are browsing/using this forum? But even those that do, some of them not all, also are posting negative comments about Russia or it's military. Do you feel the difference between 141 million and 46 million? It's pretty funny that you mentioned Oplot topic. I've been saving links about different crashes and accidents in Russian military. I've seen the comments of some Ukrainians about Tkachenko (Su-27 1st class pilot that died this summer) , i've seen the joy in their comments.
"Мертвый кацап, хороший кацап." a.k.a Dead Russian, Good Russian So please don't give me this crap about "Ukrainians do not care about Russia" etc, it's vice-versa. Ukrainians stick their noses into Russian politics etc, and Russians stick their noses into Ukrainian politics etc, it's just the way it is.

tommy00

01-11-2010, 04:10 PM

Wait? I thought you knew? Why post that rhetorical question?

I do know. Bud is your education really my problem...????

Tank34

01-11-2010, 04:10 PM

'

- Yes, its interesting how whole russian minorities got whipped out in the Middle Asian republics. Where were the russian screams of protests to UN then? Such cynism!

We were too weak when it was done.

Askold

01-11-2010, 04:17 PM

Many in Russia now envy to Chinese. And they decision of crisis on Tiananmen Square. If we only know how much casualties would bring Elsin and his family with so called democrats. We lost almost 14 millions of people now because of these. 6 times rise in killings. War in Chechnya.

We do not need the East Europe or others now independent countries. Except Belorussia and Ukraine. So sad that we now divided.

- Yes, I can see why russians would envy the Chinese. Such crush people with tanks is just the right approach that russians like. I assume if Ukraine was to crush russian minority protesters with tanks you'd be ok then?

Tank34

01-11-2010, 04:18 PM

- Very large part of population is freely using russian language on every day basis. You should stop reading russian media where they claim that we burn you at the stakes for speaking russian :) Another difference between Ukraine and russia is that Ukraine is mostly composed of one nation, while russia is multi-national. When Tadzhik becomes a second official language in russia, perhaps we'll think about it.
Russia is a mono-national country(even if we like to speak about multi-nationality). With 80 % it is population is Russians.
Compare it with 77,8 % of Ukrainians in Ukraine.
You post only show that you know not so much about Russia.