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chefjavier
01-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Vermont bill could require hunters to wear orange


GRANBY, Vt. - Lifelong hunter Calvin Noble opted not to wear an orange hat or vest that day in late 2008. Hunting with his son, he was shot by another hunter while sitting on a tree stump and using a moose call.

Noble lost his right leg, his bladder and ultimately his job and incurred more than $1.5 million in medical bills.

Now he supports a bill that could require hunters in Vermont to wear fluorescent orange, known as blaze orange, like those in 40 other states already do.

"If anything can stop what's been going on in this state in the last few years, I think it's a hell of a good idea," Noble said, sitting in a wheelchair, fighting back tears. "Not only lives but to have people lose a leg or an arm or something like I have, it's time for it."

The man who shot Noble, John Boppel, of Ashland, Pa., said he thought he was shooting at a bear under a tree. He was convicted of aggravated assault and was sentenced to more than four months in jail and ordered to pay $60,000 in restitution.

State Sen. Vincent Illuzzi, a state's attorney, prosecuted Boppel. He proposed the bill in response to Noble's Oct. 22, 2008, shooting and two others in northern Vermont, including one in which a father killed his son while hunting.

"I know they're preventable tragedies," said Illuzzi, R-Essex-Orleans.

The ultimate responsibility to identify the right target falls on the person who pulls the trigger, he said. Still, hunters can do their part to stay safe, he said.

But Noble and Illuzzi, who represents vast parts of Vermont's remote northern hunting country, say they know some hunters will be against a mandate to wear orange. Steve McLeod, executive director of the Vermont Traditions Coalition, a group of land-use organizations around the state, says the issue is divisive among hunters.

Regulations about when and how much orange is required vary from state to state. Alaska, Arizona, California, Idaho, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, New Mexico, Oregon and Vermont recommend the clothing but don't require it.

Colorado has seen a dramatic drop in hunter deaths since it mandated blaze orange and hunter education classes in the 1970s. Fatalities declined from an average of nine a year in the 1960s to one to two a year in the first four years of the 2000s, and the state did not have a hunter fatality last year, said Randy Hampton, a spokesman for the Colorado Division of Wildlife.

In Vermont, four or five of the nine deaths in the last decade might have been prevented if the victims had been wearing orange, the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Department said.

Across the country, hunting-related injuries and deaths have fallen dramatically over the last 30 to 40 years due to hunter education, blaze orange requirements and various state laws preventing shooting from vehicles and across public roads, said Wayne East, executive director of the International Hunter Education Association.

Based on the information reported to the association, there were 50 fatalities and 416 injuries nationally, not including self-inflicted injuries, in 2007 and 2008, but the association did not have comparable data from the 1960s or '70s.

Brian Ames, chairman of the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Board, which is expected to hold public hearings on the proposal in Vermont and decide whether or not to implement it, said some hunters don't want to be told what to do.

"Hunters might see it as more of a personal-liberty issue," he said.

Ames said he's always worn an orange vest while hunting and it's never hindered him. But other hunters think orange could be spotted by the animals they're pursuing.

That's not true for deer, which can't tell red or orange from green and brown, according to the New York Department of Environmental Conservation. And wearing blaze orange, which is visible to other hunters, is seven times safer than not wearing it, the department said.

Clint Gray, president of the Vermont Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs, who knows Noble, says attitudes are changing but he's not sure the Vermont bill will pass this year.

"If you would have asked 10 years ago, some people would have said absolutely not," Gray said. "Now those same people are saying it may be time."

Noble, who used to work as a supervisor for a company that makes weighing equipment, still has the bullet lodged in the left hip, which he expects to have replaced this winter. He says he always thought wearing orange was a good idea but thought it should be up to the hunter to decide. He says he probably had worn orange the day before his shooting and possibly would have worn it later that day but just didn't that morning.

The community and fellow hunters have rallied around him, giving him an all-terrain vehicle with modified hand controls and holding pot luck dinners and an auction to raise money.

The accident has hit close to home in Granby, a remote town of 85 residents, and in surrounding communities.

"A lot of people that never would have thought about wearing orange have started to wear at least a hat," Noble said. "And they think about it every time they go out. ... It's just made them realize how fast your life can be changed."

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By LISA RATHKE Associated Press Writer

HK in AK
01-09-2010, 04:32 PM
If you want to own a firearm you have to accept the responsibility that comes with ownership. Any firearm, hunter safety, or similar training course will teach you the responsibility, if you fail to take a course or abide by the teachings, then sell the firearm and go join an airsoft group.

There are not accidental shootings like this. If you are not sure about taking the shot, then don't..it is that pure and simple. Just because a hunter can claim an accident, I hope the hunter that took the shot has been held financially responsible for the guy that was injured through a civil suit.

Squatch
01-09-2010, 04:38 PM
In md we have to wear it during rifle/shotgun season but not during bow. when the seasons overlap you gotta wear it too. there is always a few idiot hunters out there that shoot at anything that moves that make the news and make the safe ones look bad. i dont trust everyone to hunt safely so i wear a blaze orange beanie during muzzleloader and it hasnt stopped me from killin deer yet.

HOG0317
01-09-2010, 05:05 PM
In NY we have to wear Blaze in certain zones. Invariably some moron with a poor grasp of target ID blasts another hunter. It helps ..but orange can't defeat stupid.

jokuvaan
01-09-2010, 06:54 PM
Isnt orange mandatory in most western countries, at least in certain hunting cases.

http://kotisivukone.fi/files/ylojarvenasetarvike.kotisivukone.com/hirviliivi_200_200.jpg

Mr Gently Benevolent
01-10-2010, 02:04 PM
As yet shooters are not compelled to wear Hi Vis clothing in the UK and there is a sporting that if you invited onto a shoot with such garments you find that would not be asked again. There was a big push to encourage anglers to wear flotation vests after a few got swept of rocks one winter.

wildcat
01-10-2010, 02:11 PM
a lot of states require hi vis, it makes not difference to the animals, here in Washington your are required to wear 400 square inches of blaze, this is only during modern rifle only. that is like a waist coat. They do sell orange camos. I guess some hunter will feel a little silly not blending into the wild.

California Joe
01-10-2010, 02:20 PM
My father in law has been hunting here in Vermont for probably 50 years. He wears an orange vest over the traditional Johnson wool plaid hunting jacket. I wear one just because I'd rather be safe than get shot. I know the family in that story about the father accidentally shooting his own son. Heartbreaking. It reminds me of the mandatory helmet and seatbelt laws, some people don't like to be told what to do. And like Hog said, there is always some idiot that will shoot you no matter what.

LineDoggie
01-10-2010, 02:21 PM
Meh, even if you require head to toe VS-17 Panel Orange or pink some slob hunter too lazy to identify his target will still shoot at you. I've seen it before, and thats why I no longer hunt in NY or PA.

Too many yahoo's who's idea of huntin is to drink as much alkyhol as possible and go out, or the idjits who hear a Moose call and think their shooting a Bear. There the same slobs who shoot road signs and whatnot.

On opening day in 2001 I was standing under a Light set at Stoney Lonesome gate to USMA West Point when some asshole pulled over down on the highway and took a shot at a deer between us. Dumbass Mother****er said he didnt see the Infantry squad, HMMWV, MP Patrol Car and MP Shack. Luckily he didnt hit us and luckily for him my squad didnt engage as the Highland Falls Cops got to him first.

Dumbass
& Guns

It's like a requirement in some counties

Snoshi
01-10-2010, 02:24 PM
And whats the problem? This is bill is logical..

Mr Gently Benevolent
01-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Years ago my relatives used to send me US hunting magazines and one issue featured a farmer who slung a piece of tarp over a fence near a lay by he came back a few weeks later to find the fence and tarp shredded and after taking a walk over to the lay by found a couple of hundred shell casings from .22 all the way trough to 30-06:lol:

engfisix
01-10-2010, 03:19 PM
And whats the problem? This is bill is logical..

I would have to agree with Snoshi on this one, cant make it idiot proof....but this may help

pobeda
01-11-2010, 01:29 AM
I think its a fair proposal

martinexsquaddie
01-11-2010, 05:53 AM
US hunting customs and UK hunting very diffrent things seen one bloke hunting with a rifle in 30 odd years seen a fair few people with shotguns though.
If you want to shoot deer in the UK need a firearms licence permission to hunt somewhere doable but quite costly and hassle dumb asses tend not to bother or fail either to get the licence or not be invited back. know one city boy who turned up to a pheasant shoot in full dpms and a 3 hole balaclava armed with a pair of spas 12s :)
poor sod had been stiched up by a friendly army officer:) said officers mother was highly unimpressed

cypriot hunters tended to favour high cap shotguns camo enough rounds to take on the world large knives and the odd hand gun for hunting small birds and large amounts of brandy:(

chefjavier
01-11-2010, 07:53 AM
You always have that individual that would ruin for everyone.

martinexsquaddie
01-11-2010, 12:16 PM
There are idiot hunters out there you either get yourself a ghillie suit and move with ghost like stealth so they don't spot you:)
OR look like gerry adams worse nightmare the future is bright the future is orange :)
body armour and turnoquets seem to have a bright a future in US hunting areas :(

Lt.Chuck
01-12-2010, 02:57 PM
no one around where i live wear orange from what i have seen in my few years of hunting. but u never hear of any1 getting shot around here

brainplay
01-12-2010, 03:06 PM
I don't see what the problem is if they're hunting on public land. Since you can't guarantee the integrity or intelligence of some of the guys out there it only make sense. Since deer and many other game animals (minus turkey) are colorblind it doesn't really make a difference. Worst case scenario, get a portable hunting blind for flatlands (Texas) or a portable tree stand. Some of the new blinds fold up like pop up tents.

Now if you're on private land, that's a different story....

SoftLion
01-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Good idea, hope it passes. No complaints about the blaze in Michigan. Plenty of game harvested here wearing clothes that are "louder" than a Richard Simmons getup at a rainbow parade.

Off topic, but some people say Turkeys are not colorblind, but I have never hunted them before.

deagle
01-12-2010, 10:51 PM
thats like not wearing your seatbelt and taking your chances. chances are slim right ? besides, i don't wanna get **** cheney'd out in the woods.

brainplay
01-13-2010, 05:16 PM
Off topic, but some people say Turkeys are not colorblind, but I have never hunted them before.

Turkey's are one of the few exceptions that have excellent eyesight and will pick-up/track off colors which require you to either wear excellent camouflage (including your rifle/shotgun) or have an excellent hunting blind. The third "old school" method from the black powder days is to shoot them with a high powered rifle at range but lose a decent chunk of meat.