Police Outgunned in San Francisco

[MEGR]

Police: Cops Outgunned in San Francisco
Sunday, July 18, 2004

FBI: Violent Crime Continued to Decline in 2003
SAN FRANCISCO — Many big city police officers carry assault weapons in their vehicles, but not in San Francisco.

Despite a crime wave that has left 55 people, including a police officer, dead at the hands of criminals with high-powered weapons, some fear more violence if cops are comparably armed.

"It terrifies the citizens of many neighborhoods in San Francisco, as it should, the idea that they would be living in a place where there might be some regularity of armed battles with assault weapons," said Peter Keene (search), San Francisco police commissioner.

In a city that’s district attorney refuses to seek the death penalty for a cop-killer, the police commissioner's resistance comes at no surprise to the police union.

"They can do whatever they want, and that's fine until it starts to endanger the safety of my officers and then it's a different story," said Gary Delagnes, president of the San Francisco Police Officers' Association (search).

Commissioner's politics, police say, aren't much protection against heavily armed thugs. If cops don't get the firepower they need to protect their city, they promise to take their fight to the state legislature and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (search).

From: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126036,00.html

[American Patriot]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!

[Apogee]

Commissioner's politics, police say, aren't much protection against heavily armed thugs. If cops don't get the firepower they need to protect their city, they promise to take their fight to the state legislature and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (search).

So when Gov. Arnie hears about this, every cop in San Fran is going to have a couple of Uzis and a .50 machine gun.

I mean this guy IS governor...

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/foxybrown/515/term1.jpg

[American Patriot]

Arnie is an outspoken gun grabber.

[Tributal]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!Whoa, that must have exceeded the FDA recommended daily dosage of sarcasm!

[Herrmannek]

So Arnie is PRO gun or NOT? If yes I will buy tickets on his next movie if not I'll get ride of my terminator collection :)

[Pooga]

Yes, in San Francisco, the cops are armed with flower squirt guns. They also wear really tight leather pants.

[aartamen]

So Arnie is PRO gun or NOT? If yes I will buy tickets on his next movie if not I'll get ride of my terminator collection :)

He's no Feinstein but he's not PRO.

[WestCoastG's]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!

Just because a weapon is banned doesnt mean criminals arent gonna use it. They could buy it out of state and smuggle it in or buy from the black market.

[shoule02]

This is my first post becasue I usually prefer to just sit back and read things on the internet and not contribute to them. It IS the internet....

But this is different.... I would ask that people watch the Fox News video...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126036,00.html

You will have to click on the link in the new window that reads "More Firearms for S.F. Police?"

Listen to what the police commissioner says... Have we learned our lesson from the '97 Hollywood shootout? Two bank robbers armed with AK-47's and other various small arms w/ high capacity magazines attempted to rob a bank and wounded almost two dozen cops in the process. The only reason why they didn't kill anyone was becaue the LA police were brave and resourceful. Had they originally been equipped with the tools (i.e. ASSAULT WEAPONS!!!!) necessary to get the job done, the whole situation could have been resolved with a few pulls of the trigger. Those in San Fransisco commiting crimes with assault weapons are banking on the fact that the police are not properly equipped.

When I graduate from college in 3 years I am deeply considering joining the Phoenix police force. I would hope that my police commissioner wouldn't abandon me...

[Herrmannek]

So Arnie is PRO gun or NOT? If yes I will buy tickets on his next movie if not I'll get ride of my terminator collection :)

He's no Feinstein but he's not PRO.

How could be?

Anyone has any link to his quotes on that matter?

[FallenAngel]

SF is quite possibly the most liberal city in California so this all comes at no surprise to me. I mean, the 9th circus court of appeals is there and they branded the pledge as unconstitutional. :cantbeli:

I feel sorry for these cops. The administration in that city is kneeling to public opinion and willing to let the cops be the sacrificial lambs.

[Gordon]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!

Yeh, and there aren't any handguns in England because they're banned ... ;)

[SpazzMunky]

This is another reason why assault weapons should be banned. If already police are having trouble with criminals using illegal weapons, what sane person would advocate legalizing these weapons and making it easier for criminals to obtain them? Do we really want to become a militarized nation like say, Afghanistan or Iraq, where everyone owns AT LEAST one assault rifle??
When do we legalize RPGs?

Let the flames commence :)

[Sir Zach of R.]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!

Yeh, and there aren't any handguns in England because they're banned ... ;)

Sarcasm flow has exceeded safe levels. Suggest instant removal of sarcastic nuclear reactor. We're all gonna die laughing! AHHH!!! rofl

[Tributal]

When I graduate from college in 3 years I am deeply considering joining the Phoenix police force. I would hope that my police commissioner wouldn't abandon me...Why not MCSO? Sheriff Joe can use another good man.

[Tributal]

..the 9th circus court of appeals is there...More sarcasm, a Freudian slip, or an unfortunate error in spelling - you be the judge! rofl

[aartamen]

Had they originally been equipped with the tools (i.e. ASSAULT WEAPONS!!!!) necessary to get the job done, the whole situation could have been resolved with a few pulls of the trigger.

Not entirely true. AFAIR the Yugos wore double Class III vests. The police's job would have been easier with rifles, no question. However, who knows what else they would have hit.

[Tributal]

However, who knows what else they would have hit.What else did they hit now? Same shot placement but with high powered rifles instead of 9mm Berettas (and whatnot) - what would the added casualty rate have been?

[Edited as you did say double vests.]

[Nizark]

This article is full of lies. First of all, there are no assault weapons in Cali because they're banned!

Ok number one, you are the wrong one here...I have been living in San Francisco for most of my life, and yes the gangs have automatic weapons. I'm sure you have never heard of areas like Hunters Point, The Tenderloin and Mission districts, because if you had, then you wouldn't have made such a gigantically false statement. Tech-9's, Mack-10's and glocks, and every type of handgun you can think of, are everyday items. Deeper in Hunter's point they DO have AK-47's AND Uzi's and god knows what else.
Knowing many SFPD officers, they all have said that their 9mm Beretta's are hardly enough, and after that hollywood shootout with the AK's and full body armor, the shotgun's they have are not enough either.

And before you get on your conservative VS liberal tirade simply because I lived in SF and disagree with you, come on AP, how many things are banned in this country and still exist?

Have a nice day

[Nizark]

And if you think people in SF would have a problem with the PD carrying M4's or M16's, they wouldn't. I would love to see SFPD with M4's walking the beat. The only one's who would freak would be the criminals who have to look out the window and see 12 cops with 12 carbines pointing at their head.

Look into 101 california street in SF and you will see that we have needed this weapons for a while.

[shoule02]

Had they originally been equipped with the tools (i.e. ASSAULT WEAPONS!!!!) necessary to get the job done, the whole situation could have been resolved with a few pulls of the trigger.

Not entirely true. AFAIR the Yugos wore double Class III vests. The police's job would have been easier with rifles, no question. However, who knows what else they would have hit.

You are defintiely right, assault weapons do posses the capability of piercing objects and inadvertantly hitting innocent people... BUT, we must also coonsider that the suspects fired approx. 1,100 rounds from their weapons (2 AK's, 1 5.56 Bushmaster, and 1 semi-auto .308 HK). Plus, they had many thousands more inside their vehicles that they didn't get the chance to fire. If the police had access to assault weapons, the suspects would never have had the chance to fire hardly at all. It could have been ended almost as soon as it had begun. In addition to armor-piercing capability, assault weapons are inherently accurate, allowing for more disciplined placement of shots than say a pistol.

For the record, 16 people were wounded, 11 police, and 5 civilians. The first suspect committed suicide when cornered and the second was shot to death by SWAT officers (with assault weapons I might add).

and to Tributal.... Yes MCSO is a good organization, but I would rather join the Phoenix PD since that would allow me to have a more direct involvement with the community I grew up in.

[Tane Angle]

Besides that they might be needed, it's a heck of a lot easier to learn to shoot relatively accurately and precisely when the weapon has a stock and a long barrel. Rifles or SMGs make a heck of a lot more sense for LEOs, but whatya gonna do?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[FallenAngel]

..the 9th circus court of appeals is there...More sarcasm, a Freudian slip, or an unfortunate error in spelling - you be the judge! rofl

How about a blatant attack at a supposedly "impartial" institution that is shamelessly liberal. ;)

Being a cop in CA is hell. During the LA riots in the early 90's, they deployed hundreds of National Guard troops (and some Marines from Camp Pendleton) with M16s to end the riots. One problem...some administrative paper-pushers in Sacramento wouldn't let those troops have any ammunition for fear that they would end up shooting a bunch of rioting black people like they did in the 1960s LA riots and cause a political ****storm.

Me, personally, wouldn't mind the LAPD for example turn in the slacks, shirt and tie for BDUs, tac.vests and M4s/UMPs for patrol work.

Of course, you could always move out to Simi Valley. something like 75%+ of the people who live there are cops....it's one of the safest cities in America :D

[Nizark]

Its bad enough that the criminals have suprerior fire power, but its a crime that the police are not armed at least equally. Either heavier weapons with the beat cops or more swat teams. Hell, give the cops hummvee's with some 50 cals on top. I don't even know if SFPD has any air!