Ukraine poll tensions stirred up

[Derbedeu]

Tension is rising between candidates in Sunday's presidential election in Ukraine, with Yulia Tymoshenko accusing her main rival of preparing huge fraud.
Mrs Tymoshenko, the prime minister, said a "deliberate disruption of the election process" was taking place on behalf of rival Viktor Yanukovych.
Mr Yanukovych's official victory in the 2004 election was later ruled to be fraudulent and overturned.
He dismissed the claims, saying only the ruling party could arrange fraud.
Mrs Tymoshenko alleged that Mr Yanukovych's Party of the Regions was organising mass fraud in the east of the country, his main power base.
In the Donetsk region, 11% of citizens had applied to vote from home, without any proof that they were not well enough to attend polling stations, she said.
"Such monstrous falsification didn't even happen in 2004," she said.
She has already threatened to resort to the courts if there is evidence of fraud taking place.
Fallen out
But Mr Yanukovych shrugged off the accusations.
"How can the opposition falsify results? Only the authorities have that ability - they have the mechanism, structure, the interior ministry," he said.
Mrs Tymoshenko was one of the leaders of the Orange Revolution that rose up after Mr Yanukovych's false victory last time.
But she has since fallen out with her Orange ally, Viktor Yushchenko, and is hoping to replace him as president.
Mr Yushchenko is running again, though only scores single figures in opinion polls and is given very little chance of re-election.


A Russian opinion poll on Wednesday showed an apparent surge by an alternative candidate, Sergei Tigipko, a former economy minister.
Most observers have predicted that Mrs Tymoshenko and Mr Yanukovych will go forward to a second round of voting.
But the latest poll showed Mr Tigipko, on 14.4%, pushing Mrs Tymoshenko, with 13.9%, into third place. Mr Yanukovych was far ahead with 30.5%.
The poll, carried out by a Russian state-run polling agency, VTsIOM, differs from recent Ukrainian recent polls, which have now ceased for the election period.
Both Mrs Tymoshenko and Mr Yanukovych have been accused of having close links with Russia.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8457745.stm


Tigipko intrigues me. He's not some retread like Yanukovych or Tymoshenko are, and he seems like a practical and successful businessman. Something that Ukraine, in the economic straits it's in, needs.

[Russianlynxy]

My advice for Yuschenko is that he pack up his family and send them home. Yes home, it's across the ocean.

Things are about to get hot in Ukraine.

[Derbedeu]

My advice for Yuschenko is that he pack up his family and send them home. Yes home, it's across the ocean.

Things are about to get hot in Ukraine.

You mean civil war? I very much doubt that.

[RICHICOQUI]

You mean civil war? I very much doubt that. i agree! that just the strong crews wet dream!!

[Russianlynxy]

You mean civil war? I very much doubt that.

Nah I doubt that too. But I don't think Ukraine is going to stay united for much longer if more Oranges fraud their way into power again.

[Snoshi]

Nah I doubt that too. But I don't think Ukraine is going to stay united for much longer if more Oranges fraud their way into power.

I am quite certain that both sides will try to cheat their way into power..

[Frutzel]

I am quite certain that both sides will try to cheat their way into power..

Just one side has less than 10 %

[Snoshi]

Just one side has less than 10 %

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[JCR]

Tigipko sounds like someone who could be the laughing third. Never heard of the guy until you mentioned him.
Sounds like your typical post 1990s privatization robber baron, but as he was in the banking sector, he probably killed less people than others.
But according to Wiki, he's more pro russian than orange, despite being Moldovan by birth.

[Sumadinac]

Polls are maybe not accurate but I doubt the results will be very different from what they indicate.

[Mr.K]

Tigipko sounds like someone who could be the laughing third. Never heard of the guy until you mentioned him.
Sounds like your typical post 1990s privatization robber baron, but as he was in the banking sector, he probably killed less people than others.
But according to Wiki, he's more pro russian than orange, despite being Moldovan by birth.

x2 He'll syphoon whatever is left of the governement's assets.

[Frutzel]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

So how do you vote? I know that everything can be manipulated but why isn't the government doing something about it. It seems like its an open secret that he is a useless douchebag who did nothing for his country and the numbers doesn't sound too far away. Anyways, I hope the whole thing will be through fast with nobody getting hurt

[Mr.K]

So how do you vote? I know that everything can be manipulated but why isn't the government doing something about it. It seems like its an open secret that he is a useless douchebag who did nothing for his country and the numbers doesn't sound too far away. Anyways, I hope the whole thing will be through fast with nobody getting hurt

Ukranians are becoming jaded and are selling their votes.

[Derbedeu]

x2 He'll syphoon whatever is left of the governement's assets.

Isn't that not only unfair, but premature to speculate? Besides which, it's not as if any of the other two have sterling backgrounds (Yanukovych's convictions for assault; Tymoshenko being an oligarch herself), or perhaps most importantly, success as political leaders (both Tymoshenko and Yanukovych have been Prime Ministers of Ukraine more than once).

At least Tigipko is relatively new to the political scene. What Ukraine needs is a fresh start, not the same bickering and corrupt politicians.

Just my 2 cents.

[Byrdalak]

I hope everything goes well. My wife is in Gomel as we speak and due to leave through Borispol Feb 8. If the people want to tear things up just wait until Feb 9 please!!!!

I wish the best for the people too. They don't need the hand they've been given.

What's your thoughts on splitting the Ukraine like Czechs and Slovaks did? They did it peacefully, I bet the Ukrainians could too.

[Derbedeu]

Oranges and lemons

A run-off is likely between Viktor Yanukovich and Yulia Tymoshenko
FANCY buying a vote in Ukraine’s presidential election on January 17th? Go to a new website called “sell your vote” ( www.prodaygolos.com.ua (http://www.prodaygolos.com.ua/)). “I will sell two or three votes,” reads one post. “I’ve sold mine for 500 hryvna,” reads another. When last checked, the website advertised some 4,500 votes for sale across Ukraine, at an average price of 913 hryvna ($114). This number could hardly swing the election result, but is enough to reflect the public’s alienation and disillusionment with their politicians.
Five years after the “orange revolution”, which brought thousands of protesters on to the snowy streets of Kiev, many would rather vote against all the candidates—or just not turn up at all. Kiev is once again covered in snow, but the only noise in this election is that of pensioners banging pots and pans in front of government buildings to demand better living standards. The gloomy mood even inspired one small-town opportunist in western Ukraine to change his name to Protyvsikh (Against-all). He is now one of 18 registered presidential candidates.

Trust in the incumbent, Viktor Yushchenko, who swept into the presidency after the orange revolution, is now so low that his poll rating is under 5%. Many voters who backed him five years ago feel let down by his broken promises and failure to govern.
Even though they are tired of the same old faces, Ukrainians seem likely once again to have to choose between two familiar front-runners: the former and current prime ministers, Viktor Yanukovich and Yulia Tymoshenko (each has served as prime minister twice). Mr Yanukovich leads in the polls by around ten points. But since no candidate will get a majority in the first round, a run-off between the top two will be held on February 7th.
The explanation of Mr Yanukovich’s relatively high rating has little to do with his intellectual capacity, his integrity or his record. Indeed, some 55% of Ukrainians view him negatively, according to the American-financed International Foundation for Electoral Systems. Many are put off by his thuggish manner, the obvious difficulty he has in formulating his thoughts and his two youthful criminal convictions. His role as the Russian-backed villain in the 2004 election seems to be the least of his problems, though his roots in the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine and his proximity to business tycoons there make him seem more alien in the west. “The thought of this man representing Ukraine is embarrassing,” says one businessman.
But so bitter is the disappointment in the orange team, so strong the craving for stability which (at least visually) he represents and so deep the suspicion, rational or otherwise, of Ms Tymoshenko that even in western Ukraine some voters may back Mr Yanukovich in the second round. This is partly Mr Yushchenko’s work—in many ways, he has done more for Mr Yanukovich’s campaign than Mr Yanukovich himself. Indeed, destroying Ms Tymoshenko, his erstwhile orange colleague, seems now to be Mr Yushchenko’s only goal. Whereas most of Mr Yushchenko’s former allies have agreed to back Ms Tymoshenko, he is implicitly backing Mr Yanukovich. He spent much of his final press conference on January 12th attacking Ms Tymoshenko, earning him fulsome praise from Mr Yanukovich’s camp. As the incumbent prime minister, Ms Tymoshenko’s rating has also been dented by Ukraine’s severe economic crisis.
Surprises cannot be ruled out: many voters are still undecided. Serhiy Tyhypko, a banker who (like Mr Yushchenko) served as head of the central bank and who also ran Mr Yanukovich’s presidential campaign in 2004, seems likely to come third. Mr Tyhypko, who once posed for the cover of a men’s health magazine, could be the kingmaker in the second round.
Whoever wins will preside over a country saddled with a sick economy, staggering corruption, business oligarchs’ vested interests and a constitutional deadlock that does not define clearly the responsibilities of the president and prime minister. If Ms Tymoshenko wins, she may be able to buy enough deputies from Mr Yanukovich’s Party of Regions to avoid a fresh parliamentary election. If it is Mr Yanukovich, a parliamentary election in a few months’ time is almost inevitable. Either way, this presidential election is unlikely to yield the things that Ukrainians want most: political stability, responsible policies and economic security. It may just produce more business for vote sellers.http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15277315

[Difool]

The tensions between the candidates have been high not only since the last weeeks. So I wonder if they can actually rise anymore. But I fear that they can.
It's all a big circus. But the clowns lack any humor.

[SR25]

Yanukovich already got rid of his criminal record ? Circus indeed...
Overall advice - disregard Russian mass hysteria on this account because the amount of BS media they released so far was great, to say the least, see no reason why they will stop now...

[sepheronx]

Yanukovich already got rid of his criminal record ? Circus indeed...
Overall advice - disregard Russian mass hysteria on this account because the amount of BS media they released so far was great, to say the least, see no reason why they will stop now...

Then what is the truth? All sides can spin the truth anyway, so it makes it hard on who to believe and not to.

I don't see how Yuschenko would have much of a high rating, if he pretty much helped brought down the Ukrainian economy for the past 8 years.

[SR25]

I think loads of country leaders in the world can be made responsible now for bringing down their economies in the past 5 years. To believe that Yanukovich could do any better is pretty much to believe that hell will freeze any time soon. In any case he was even given the post of prime minister back, how has he benefited the economy ?
During elections everybody is doing everything they can, but last time Region's pary went too far, way too far...

[Derbedeu]

Then what is the truth? All sides can spin the truth anyway, so it makes it hard on who to believe and not to.

I don't see how Yuschenko would have much of a high rating, if he pretty much helped brought down the Ukrainian economy for the past 8 years.

What 8 years? Kuchma was President from 1994-2005. Yushchenko has been President since '05.

Besides, while I realize that it's popular to heap all of Ukraine's troubles on Yushchenko, the fact of the matter is that Ukraine has a semi-presidential and semi-parliamentary government, which means that blame cannot be laid at the President's feet alone, but also the Prime Minister's. And the fact of the matter is that both Yanukovych and Tymoshenko have been Prime Ministers since '05.

As much as some members here want to portray certain politicians as good guys while others are bad guys, the fact of the matter is that they're all corrupt. Ukraine's problems are much deeper than merely who's President, and these problems are also systemic. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that all will turn for the better as soon as one or another is elected President. The road ahead for Ukraine is one of long and painful reforms.

[sepheronx]

What 8 years? Kuchma was President from 1994-2005. Yushchenko has been President since '05.

Besides, while I realize that it's popular to heap all of Ukraine's troubles on Yushchenko, the fact of the matter is that Ukraine has a semi-presidential and semi-parliamentary government, which means that blame cannot be laid at the President's feet alone, but also the Prime Minister's. And the fact of the matter is that both Yanukovych and Tymoshenko have been Prime Ministers since '05.

As much as some members here want to portray certain politicians as good guys while others are bad guys, the fact of the matter is that they're all corrupt. Ukraine's problems are much deeper than merely who's President, and these problems are also systemic. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that all will turn for the better as soon as one or another is elected President. The road ahead for Ukraine is one of long and painful reforms.

You are right, for some reason I was thinking he was in power for longer (at least it felt that way in terms of the media). And no, I don't have high hopes for anyone else, but Yuschenko was an odd president, with strange tenancies that pissed off majority compared to minority.

Edit: All we can do is just watch and see what happens.

[Derbedeu]

The sad thing is that no politician really has any wide support. Something like over 60% of people disagree with Tymoshenko's performance as Prime Minister, and as the Economist article I posted shows, 55% of Ukrainians view Yanukovych in a negative light. Granted, Yushchenko has both of them beat when it comes to negative polls, but it's pretty alarming as well as a reflection of the dismal situation in Ukraine when a politician can't even garner close to a 40% approval rating. At this point, I think most Ukrainians will be voting for who they happen to hate less, as I doubt there is much support for any of their politicians.

It's part of the reason I'd like to see Ukraine vote in someone new to the political stage, like perhaps Tigipko. Yes, he's somewhat of an unknown, but at this point, anything is better for Ukraine then the same old retread "career" politicians.

[sepheronx]

The sad thing is that no politician really has any wide support. Something like over 60% of people disagree with Tymoshenko's performance as Prime Minister, and as the Economist article I posted shows, 55% of Ukrainians view Yanukovych in a negative light. Granted, Yushchenko has both of them beat when it comes to negative polls, but it's pretty alarming as well as a reflection of the dismal situation in Ukraine when a politician can't even garner close to a 40% approval rating. At this point, I think most Ukrainians will be voting for who they happen to hate less, as I doubt there is much support for any of their politicians.

It's part of the reason I'd like to see Ukraine vote in someone new to the political stage, like perhaps Tigipko. Yes, he's somewhat of an unknown, but at this point, anything is better for Ukraine then the same old retread "career" politicians.

agreed. And thanks for putting on light to this Tigipko. I will look up more about this guy.

[Universal_Soldier]

Isn't that not only unfair, but premature to speculate? Besides which, it's not as if any of the other two have sterling backgrounds (Yanukovych's convictions for assault; Tymoshenko being an oligarch herself), or perhaps most importantly, success as political leaders (both Tymoshenko and Yanukovych have been Prime Ministers of Ukraine more than once).

At least Tigipko is relatively new to the political scene. What Ukraine needs is a fresh start, not the same bickering and corrupt politicians.

Just my 2 cents.

No he's not new to the scene.... he's been involved in the government for over a decade and even much earlier than that.
How did he make billions in Ukraine??? same way the other oligarch made theres....
He's just as fraudulent as the rest of them.

This is a person that is estimated to be worth between 500 million to 2 billion dollars before the economic crisis. can you point to how he made those billions looking at his life history?
Here is history:

Work Experience and Political Life:
1982 – 1984 – Military service in Soviet Army, tank forces.
Since 1984 – Deputy Director of Dnipropetrovsk Metallurgical Secondary Technical School for Studies and Pedagogical Work.
1986 – Head of the Department of Propaganda and Agitation of Dnipropetrovsk Komsomol (Young Communist League)Regional Committee.
1989 – First Secretary of Dnipropetrovsk Komsomol Regional Committee.
1991 – Deputy Chairman of the Management Board of the Dnipro commercial bank.1992 - Chairman of the Management Board of the PrivatBank.
1994 – 1997 – Outside Consultant to the President of Ukraine (Leonid Kuchma) for Monetary Policy.
1997 – Vice-Prime-Minister of Ukraine for Economy.
1997-2001 – Deputy Head of the State Commission for the Administrative Reform of Ukraine, member of the Supreme Economic Council of the President of Ukraine.
1999 – Minister of Economy of Ukraine.
2000 – Member of Parliament of Ukraine.
2002 – Chairman of the National Bank of Ukraine.
2005 - Chairman of the Management Board of the TAS Financial Industrial Group.
Since 2007 - Chairman of the Management Board of the LLC Svedbank (ex-TAS-CommerceBank).
2008 – Outside Councilor to the Prime Minister of Ukraine, co-Chair of the Council of Investors at the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine.

Yes they said he opened a bank and then sold it for a Billion dollars...yea right, story of my life!!!

[DRA]

Tigipko is not entirely new. During the last election he was in charge of Yanukovich's election campaign in the east, which ended up in fail for the "blue". After that Yanyk otpizdil/repeatedly punches in the face and kidneys, and then fired him. Tigipko is the cleanest of them all, represents the bankers but unfortunately has 0 chance....
Yanukovich or Timoshenko, either way Ukraine is f**ked.

[Derbedeu]

No he's not new to the scene.... he's been involved in the government for over a decade and even much earlier than that.
How did he make billions in Ukraine??? same way the other oligarch made theres....
He's just as fraudulent as the rest of them.

Well, he hasn't been President or Prime Minister, as the others have, which is what I meant. I also doubt he's as corrupt as the other 3, namely since he's never been established in a position of real power, outside of Minister of Economy for a short stint.

Besides, why would anyone vote for any of the same 3 (Tymoshenko, Yanukovych, Yushchenko) when they've all proven themselves to be failures (more than once I might add) when placed in a position of power? Give the new guy a chance, who knows, he might turn out to be a decent leader.

[Lector]

There are 18 candidates

Inna Bohoslovska (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inna_Bohoslovska), member of Verkhovna Rada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada), unaffiliated (block Party of Regions)
104365

Mykhaylo Brodskyy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykhaylo_Brodskyy), leader of the Party of Free Democrats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Free_Democrats)
104366

Anatoliy Hrytsenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Hrytsenko), member of Our Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Ukraine), former Minister of Defens
104367

Yuriy Kostenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuriy_Kostenko), Ukrainian People's Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Party) deputy of Verkhovna Rada for Our Ukraine–People's Self-Defense Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Ukraine%E2%80%93People%27s_Self-Defense_Bloc)
104368

Volodymyr Lytvyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Lytvyn), parliamentary speaker
104369

Oleksandr Moroz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Moroz), Socialist Party of Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Ukraine), former chairman of the Verkhovna Rada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada)
104370

Oleksandr Pabat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Pabat), Peoples' Salvation Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples%27_Salvation_Army)

104371

Vasily Protyvsih (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Protyvsih), Independent
104372

Serhiy Ratushniak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Ratushniak)
104373

Oleh Riabokon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Riabokon), Independent lawyer, Managing Partner in Magisters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisters) law firm from 1997 to 2009

104374

Petro Symonenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Symonenko), Leader of the Communist Party of Ukraine
104375

Liudmyla Suprun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liudmyla_Suprun), People's Democratic Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Democratic_Party_%28Ukraine%29)
104376

Yulia Tymoshenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko), Incumbent Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Ukraine) leader of Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko_Bloc)
104377

Serhiy Tihipko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Tihipko), former CEO of the National Bank of Ukraine endorsed by Labour Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Ukraine)

104378

Oleh Tyahnybok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok), All-Ukrainian Union "Freedom" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ukrainian_Union_%22Freedom%22), deputy of the Lviv Regional Council
104379

Viktor Yushchenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko), Incumbent President and member of Our Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Ukraine)

104380

Viktor Yanukovych (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych), Party of Regions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Regions) former Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister) and runner-up candidate in the 2004 presidential election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2004)
104381

Arseniy Yatsenyuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk), former Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman_of_the_Verkhovna_Rada) member of Our Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Ukraine) and Front for Change party
104382

[Universal_Soldier]

Well, he hasn't been President or Prime Minister, as the others have, which is what I meant. I also doubt he's as corrupt as the other 3, namely since he's never been established in a position of real power, outside of Minister of Economy for a short stint.

Besides, why would anyone vote for any of the same 3 (Tymoshenko, Yanukovych, Yushchenko) when they've all proven themselves to be failures (more than once I might add) when placed in a position of power? Give the new guy a chance, who knows, he might turn out to be a decent leader.

I agree with you for the most part. I just don't buy into the whole new guy thing. Just a different face, same old problems.

[Derbedeu]

I agree with you for the most part. I just don't buy into the whole new guy thing. Just a different face, same old problems.

Sometimes a new face can go a long way... just the perception that things are changing can bring some optimism to the country and its people.

[Russianlynxy]

Sometimes a new face can go a long way... just the perception that things are changing can bring some optimism to the country and its people.

I think I can somewhat agree with this statement. Putin and Medvedev were both shadow characters no one ever heard about, but turned out to be (despite the complications) quite successful leaders.

[Derbedeu]

I think I can somewhat agree with this statement. Putin and Medvedev were both shadow characters no one ever heard about, but turned out to be (despite the complications) quite successful leaders.

That's actually who I had in mind when I posted that. :D

[Universal_Soldier]

Sometimes a new face can go a long way... just the perception that things are changing can bring some optimism to the country and its people.
Ukraine already tried that whole "perception thing" which was what the Orange revolution represented and it failed them massively. I doubt they are willing to try again anytime soon. regarding the candidates, I don't believe there is a big difference amongst them, I've observed them for a while now and concluded that they are all political prostitutes and populist scumbags. I pray Ukraine and it's people but their Politicians are holding them hostage. That said, may be the "new guy" is the lesser of the evils, I don't know...The whole situation seems hopeless, but I wish Ukraine the best.

[Simon PhoeniX]

There will be no revolution in Ukraine again unless Yushenko wins.
Doubt Ukrainians will fall for the same trap twice.

[asch]

it's good to see this thread running civil and people don't react to trolls provocations. keep it up.

[CaptMorgan68]

There will be no revolution in Ukraine again unless Yushenko wins.
Doubt Ukrainians will fall for the same trap twice.

x2......................................

[Russianlynxy]

it's good to see this thread running civil and people don't react to trolls provocations. keep it up.

there aren't any, really...

[CaptMorgan68]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8457745.stm


Tigipko intrigues me. He's not some retread like Yanukovych or Tymoshenko are, and he seems like a practical and successful businessman. Something that Ukraine, in the economic straits it's in, needs.

Yep Tigipko does seem different and refreshing when it comes to Ukrainian politics... he could be make a good PM or President some day

[Eye]

There are 18 candidates


Mykhaylo Brodskyy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykhaylo_Brodskyy), leader of the Party of Free Democrats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Free_Democrats)
104366http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/%3Cimg%20src=%22http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104366&stc=1%22%20class=%22previewthumb%20previewthumbactive%22%20alt=%22%22%3E

He looks like very reliable person.

[daily666]

It's interesting to see Yanukovych and Tymoshenko both being associated with Russia. Hope nothing will get messy in Ukraine.

This reminds me a bit a situation in Poland in 1994. After four years of bickering and lost promises by the anti-communist opposistion from the 80's people actually got nervous and elected the post communists into power for the next 4 years. In 1995 a post-communist President was elected. I remember many predicting the end of democracy and back to communism, but nothing really bad happened.

[void]

It's interesting to see Yanukovych and Tymoshenko both being associated with Russia. Hope nothing will get messy in Ukraine.

This reminds me a bit a situation in Poland in 1994. After four years of bickering and lost promises by the anti-communist opposistion from the 80's people actually got nervous and elected the post communists into power for the next 4 years. In 1995 a post-communist President was elected. I remember many predicting the end of democracy and back to communism, but nothing really bad happened.

Neither Yanukovych nor Tymoshenko are really "pro-Russian" at this point in time. Rather, they are pragmatists, and only seem "pro-Russian" when compared to Yushenko who cant go a day without threatening to annul some gas contracts or kick the Black Sea fleet out.

Whoever wins the election, I hope they win convincingly, this would prevent legitimising any inevitable protests by the losing side which would only be destabilising, and it would give the new government a strong mandate.

[SR25]

He looks like very reliable person.

Well, just few days ago he released a statement that Georgian election inspectors coming to the Ukraine are in fact Georgian trained fighters :roll:

[shoora]

I think loads of country leaders in the world can be made responsible now for bringing down their economies in the past 5 years
I can not agree with you entirely.
Thing is - at that time (2005) Ukraine and Russia could have established much better economic ties. Bigger internal (I mean CIS) market can better resist world economic crisis. Competitive advantage of Ukrainian chemical and steel industries completely depended upon low prices for gas.
UShenko administration was busy cutting economic ties with Russia. Big share of economic "growth" of Ukraine after 2005 is just bigger credit line of Austrian and other banks.
The credit line was THIS big because UShenko "won" last election. Doubtful achievement of orange "revolt", if we look at current financial situation in Ukraine.

[shoora]

Funny observation...
Last election Ukrainians admited - they had to choose between two evils. "Bad" and "worst". One evil ruled them for 5 years and yet another evil will govern them for five more years. "Jack pot"!!!
Looks like, since 2005 evil in different faces got at least 10 year term in Ukraine.
But, considering that most of Ukrainian demonized all previeous Czars (Kravchuk and Kuchma), this state ruled by evil since 1991.
For almost 20 years citizens of Ukraine non stop 24/7 hated their politics and government. May be I can define Ukraine as "failed state"?

Neither Yanukovych nor Tymoshenko are really "pro-Russian" at this point in time. Rather, they are pragmatists, and only seem "pro-Russian" when compared to Yushenko who cant go a day without threatening to annul some gas contracts or kick the Black Sea fleet out.
In Ukraine politics ≡ business. Big politics in Ukraine represent huge business clans. And these clans are afraid of Russian business, which is even bigger fish. So, real big "pro-Russian" politic in Ukraine is such a nonsense.


There will be no revolution in Ukraine again unless Yushenko wins.
Doubt Ukrainians will fall for the same trap twice.
Sorry, small people can not organize revot without proper organization. And we have never seen colour "revolution" tricks working twice in same country. This technology are begging for improvement.
So - no way. Revolution even less likely to happen in Ukraine than civil war. And I don't believe in both.

[eskachig]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-ukraine-qa16-2010jan16,0,7483833.story

Q&A with Yanukovich. For what it's worth I like his answers, though of course this is a short assemblage of sound bites.

[Derbedeu]

Disenchanted Ukrainians take anger to the polls


By Gabriel Gatehouse
BBC News, Kiev
Ukrainians go to the polls on Sunday in the first presidential election since the Orange Revolution five years ago.
Then, the results of a fraudulent poll were overturned by mass street protest. It looked like a victory for freedom and democracy over control from Moscow.
But five years on, there is widespread disappointment.
In the small town of Shampan, not far outside Kiev, the Boyko brothers are struggling to keep their transport business alive.
During the Orange Revolution, Ruslan and Oleg used their buses to ferry local protesters to and from the capital for free.
Now the buses stand idle. Their business has been badly hit by the economic crisis and the brothers have lost their faith in politics.
"I don't know who to vote for," says Ruslan. "There is no-one worth voting for, we're in a state of political depression."
It is hard to find a Ukrainian voter who isn't disillusioned with the lack of progress over the past five years.


Even Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister, Hrihoriy Nemyria, has this damning assessment: "Huge expectations; a lot of promises; a gap between the pompous rhetoric, high expectations and lack of delivery.
"Corruption is still widespread and that's something we need to deal with to catch up with our neighbours further to the west, like Poland, like Slovakia or Hungary, to come closer to the European Union."
His boss, Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, with her trademark blonde braids and fiery rhetoric, was one of those who rallied the crowds in Independence Square five years ago.
Now she is running for the presidency.
Polls suggest she will face a second round run-off against the man who appears to have benefited most from the general feeling of disillusionment, Viktor Yanukovych.
Five years ago, Viktor Yanukovych was Moscow's favoured candidate to win.
He became the villain of the Orange Revolution, his reputation tarnished by accusations of mass fraud.
But he believes he was the rightful winner in 2004, and that his time has finally come.


Leonid Kozhara, Mr Yanukovych's spokesman on foreign affairs, said: "What we see now, it's a complete failure of the so-called Orange parties.
"Actually it created a good ground for Yanukovych and we have no doubt that he will be the winner of this campaign."
Mr Kozhara dismisses any suggestion that Mr Yanukovych is still Moscow's man. But he does advocate a rapprochement with the Kremlin after five years of rocky relations.
"We don't aim to restore any sort of union with Russia, but our true aim is to restore good neighbourly relations. We badly need a good strategic relationship with Moscow."
In particular, Mr Kozhara says a potential President Yanukovych would consider extending Russia's lease on its Crimean Black Sea Fleet base; or possibly selling off part of Ukraine's vital gas transit pipeline network.
Ms Tymoshenko doesn't go so far in public. But she, too, is pushing for closer ties with Russia.
Political elite
In a small flat in the eastern city of Donetsk, Aleksandr Bondarenko shares his cramped flat with four family members. He used to be a coalminer but lost the use of his legs after he was sent to Chernobyl in 1986, to investigate the extent of the disaster.
The high doses of radiation he was exposed to have confined him to a wheelchair for life.


Donetsk is Viktor Yanukovych's heartland. He won most votes there in 2004 and expects to do so again this year.
But Mr Bondarenko can find no cheer in the revival of Mr Yanukovych's electoral fortunes. He is disenchanted with the entire political elite.
"Yanukovych, Tymoshenko, Yushchenko, they've all had their time in power," he says. "They did nothing. And then, when they lose power they say, 'Elect me, and I'll make life better'."
After five years of promises of a better life, he says, he still has to buy his own medication to ease his chronic pain, and borrow money from relatives to pay for a new wheelchair.
On Independence Square today, the sea of orange crowds of five years ago has given way to a skating rink.
It's unlikely there will be any large scale demonstrations this time round. Most people have lost faith in the power of protest.
Mustafa Najem is a local journalist.


He is of Afghan origin, but has become one of a new breed of combative political commentators in Ukraine. Freedom of speech is one of the few benefits of the Orange Revolution most people can agree on.
"All pre-election processes in Ukraine depend on money, and this money is given by oligarchs," says Najem. "So Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, they are dependent on these oligarchs."
The Orange Revolution promised to break the power of this small group of fabulously wealthy businessmen.
But Najem says that the influence of the oligarchs has actually grown, as they spread their money among different candidates ahead of the election.
Whoever does end up becoming the next Ukrainian president, he or she will face an uphill struggle to rebuild voters' confidence that their short-lived demonstration of people power on the streets of Kiev five years ago was more than just a fleeting moment.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8463299.stm

[SR25]

I can not agree with you entirely.
Thing is - at that time (2005) Ukraine and Russia could have established much better economic ties. Bigger internal (I mean CIS) market can better resist world economic crisis. Competitive advantage of Ukrainian chemical and steel industries completely depended upon low prices for gas.
UShenko administration was busy cutting economic ties with Russia. Big share of economic "growth" of Ukraine after 2005 is just bigger credit line of Austrian and other banks.
The credit line was THIS big because UShenko "won" last election. Doubtful achievement of orange "revolt", if we look at current financial situation in Ukraine.


About superb economic ties it more like a idyllic fairy-tale. It is extremely naive to think that Yanukovich at the time would do something extremely good for the Ukraine, his still behaves as a former prisoner his speeches are not just of a simple man, they are plainly like of a middle rank gangster. So talking about some sort of grate support of his personality is simply ridiculous.
In any case what prevents Russian government from building stable economic ties all these years ? Saying that Yushenko was destroying economic ties with Russia is something that you would read in a Russian newspaper as this is simply not true and just saying it is not enough, things like these must be backed up by pretty serious facts, and there arent really any solid ones. Economic ties with Russia are inevitable since it is a neighbouring country and breaking them has never been an agenda of the Ukrainian government. If everything is so genuine from the Russian side, why on Earth EU and NATO bothers them so much ? If Kremlin truly wants to have a good relationship with the Ukraine, what Ukraine joins shouldn’t matter to them at all should it? But simple reality was and is that Russian government simply needs to maintain reasonable control over the Ukraine and have some sort of buffer.

This event titled “Orange Revolution” was a success, complete and total, simply last time Yanukovich went too far, his absolutely uncovered arrogance towards Ukrainian laws and people was overwhelming, the election fraud was simply outside of any even fraudulent boundaries. But again, it was a choice of majority of Russian population to openly support Yanukovich, you can hardly blame it on "evil" Ukrainians. Revolution simply clipped Yanukovich's wings because the main law at that moment was simply a circus for him. But revolution has ended there and then. Things like “Orange ideology” or “Orange parliament members” simply were not existent in real life, it’s just how opposition and Russian media were referring to those who participated in the revolution.
Yushenko only failed in not being able to reduce Russian influence with a surgical precision, which is required in these matters, since of course Kremlin would not simply give up. Also disinformation, aggressiveness and pure lies from Russian media did a huge harm to the Ukrainian social fabric, division has always been facilitated by it big time.
About current financial situation, there is no way on Earth you can blame Yushenko alone, Region Party has been in the government all this time, what have they done apart from robbing local administrative budgets on the East ? People are judged by their deeds, not who scream louder "I am right".

[asch]

as i understand, you are trying to say that current state of Ukrainian economics is a pure pro-Russian people fault?

[CaptMorgan68]

About superb economic ties it more like a idyllic fairy-tale. It is extremely naive to think that Yanukovich at the time would do something extremely good for the Ukraine, his still behaves as a former prisoner his speeches are not just of a simple man, they are plainly like of a middle rank gangster. So talking about some sort of grate support of his personality is simply ridiculous.
In any case what prevents Russian government from building stable economic ties all these years ? Saying that Yushenko was destroying economic ties with Russia is something that you would read in a Russian newspaper as this is simply not true and just saying it is not enough, things like these must be backed up by pretty serious facts, and there arent really any solid ones. Economic ties with Russia are inevitable since it is a neighbouring country and breaking them has never been an agenda of the Ukrainian government. If everything is so genuine from the Russian side, why on Earth EU and NATO bothers them so much ? If Kremlin truly wants to have a good relationship with the Ukraine, what Ukraine joins shouldn’t matter to them at all should it? But simple reality was and is that Russian government simply needs to maintain reasonable control over the Ukraine and have some sort of buffer.

This event titled “Orange Revolution” was a success, complete and total, simply last time Yanukovich went too far, his absolutely uncovered arrogance towards Ukrainian laws and people was overwhelming, the election fraud was simply outside of any even fraudulent boundaries. But again, it was a choice of majority of Russian population to openly support Yanukovich, you can hardly blame it on "evil" Ukrainians. Revolution simply clipped Yanukovich's wings because the main law at that moment was simply a circus for him. But revolution has ended there and then. Things like “Orange ideology” or “Orange parliament members” simply were not existent in real life, it’s just how opposition and Russian media were referring to those who participated in the revolution.
Yushenko only failed in not being able to reduce Russian influence with a surgical precision, which is required in these matters, since of course Kremlin would not simply give up. Also disinformation, aggressiveness and pure lies from Russian media did a huge harm to the Ukrainian social fabric, division has always been facilitated by it big time.
About current financial situation, there is no way on Earth you can blame Yushenko alone, Region Party has been in the government all this time, what have they done apart from robbing local administrative budgets on the East ? People are judged by their deeds, not who scream louder "I am right".

The only ppl to blame for the current state of affairs in Ukraine are Yuschenko and Tymoshenko who failed to push forward the reforms they promised in 2004.

[Bob Sapp]

Ukraine may get another miserable leader, but at least one that is not so pathetically anti-Russian. That alone will help the country, in its current state it cannot afford to get into these weekly squabbles with Russia.

[Wojtop]

"All pre-election processes in Ukraine depend on money, and this money is given by oligarchs," says Najem. "So Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, they are dependent on these oligarchs."
The Orange Revolution promised to break the power of this small group of fabulously wealthy businessmen.
But Najem says that the influence of the oligarchs has actually grown, as they spread their money among different candidates ahead of the election.

Sadly the elections will change very little considering who really rules the country - the oligarchs. Ukraine is slipping down and need a miracle to happen in order to bounce back. That's sad.

[void]

Ukraine needs stability first and foremost. Thats means a president and a government which are not conspiring against each other, and a legislature which functions properly. Once stability is achieved, it is clear the economy needs to be reformed and diversified. Hopefully these elections can achieve the former, and then the resulting government cant work on the latter.