Republican Brown wins Mass. Senate race, AP reports

[Holmes85]

This comes from: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34923900/ns/politics-capitol_hill/


AP: Brown wins Mass. Senate race in epic upset

GOP victory leaves President Barack Obama's health care overhaul in doubt


BOSTON - In an epic upset in liberal Massachusetts, Republican Scott Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley in a U.S. Senate election Tuesday that left President Barack Obama's health care overhaul in doubt and marred the end of his first year in office. The loss by the once-favored Coakley for the seat that the late Sen. Edward M. Kennedy held for nearly half a century signaled big political problems for the president's party this fall when House, Senate and gubernatorial candidates are on the ballot nationwide.

More immediately, Brown will become the 41st Republican in the 100-member Senate, which could allow the GOP to block the president's health care legislation and the rest of Obama's agenda. Democrats needed Coakley to win for a 60th vote to thwart Republican filibusters.

The election transformed reliably Democratic Massachusetts into a battleground state. One day shy of the first anniversary of Obama's swearing-in, it played out amid a backdrop of animosity and resentment from voters over persistently high unemployment, industry bailouts, exploding federal budget deficits and partisan wrangling over health care.

For weeks considered a long-shot, Brown rode that wave of bitterness to draw even with Coakley in the final stretch of the campaign. Surveys showed his candidacy energized Republicans, including backers of the grass-roots "tea party" movement, while attracting disappointed Democrats and independents uneasy with where they felt the nation was heading.

In a sample of seven towns where complete results are in, Coakley was running about 15 percentage points behind Obama’s 2008 percentages. Obama won all of these towns in 2008: Hopkinton, Shrewsbury, Rockland, Reading, Woburn, North Andover, Ashland. On Tuesday, Coakley lost all of them, by significant margins. Rockland, in the Boston suburbs, went 65 percent for Brown, those results show. In 2008, Obama won it with 50 percent of the vote.

Referendum on Obama?
Though he wasn't on the ballot, the president was on many voters' minds. "I voted for Obama because I wanted change. ... I thought he'd bring it to us, but I just don't like the direction that he's heading," said John Triolo, 38, a registered independent who voted in Fitchburg. He said his frustrations, including what he considered the too-quick pace of health care legislation, led him to vote for Brown.

But Robert Hickman, 55, of New Bedford, said he backed Coakley "to stay on the same page with the president." Even before the first results were announced, administration officials were privately accusing Coakley of a poorly run campaign and playing down the notion that Obama or a toxic political landscape had much to do with the outcome.

Coakley's supporters, in turn, blamed that very environment, saying her lead dropped significantly after the Senate passed health care reform shortly before Christmas and after the Christmas Day attempted airliner bombing that Obama himself said showed a failure of his administration. Fingerpointing began more than a week ago as polls started showing a tight race. Obama flew to Boston for last-minute personal campaigning on Sunday. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the president "was both surprised and frustrated ... not pleased" at how competitive the race had become in the final weeks.

Wall Street watched race
Wall Street watched the election closely. The Dow Jones industrial average rose 116 points, and analysts attributed the increase to hopes the election would make it harder for Obama to make his changes to health care. That eased investor concerns that profits at companies such as insurers and drug makers would suffer.

Across Massachusetts, voters who had been bombarded with phone calls and dizzied with nonstop campaign commercials for Coakley and Brown gave a fitting turnout despite intermittent snow and rain statewide. Secretary of State William Galvin, who discounted sporadic reports of voter irregularities throughout the day, predicted turnout ranging from 1.6 million to 2.2 million, 40 percent to 55 percent of registered voters. The Dec. 8 primary had a scant turnout of about 20 percent.

National issues including health care and the federal budget deficits were on voters' minds. "We don't want health care just for the rich and the middle class. We need it for everyone," said Democrat Neicei Degan, 82, who voted for Coakley in hopes of saving Obama's plan that would extend coverage to millions of uninsured.

Fears about spending drove Karla Bunch, 49, to vote for Brown. "It's time for the country, for the taxpayers, to take back their money," she said. For others, feelings about the candidates themselves shaped their votes. Recalling that Brown once posed **** for Cosmopolitan magazine, Kaitlin Addams, 50, said she reluctantly voted for Coakley "to make sure the pinup boy doesn't get into office. I don't like his stand on issues. He's an extreme conservative." Conversely, Elizabeth Reddin, 65, voted for Brown because she said she was turned off by the Democrat's negative advertisements, saying: "The Coakley stuff was disgusting."

Workmanlike campaign
As polls opened, Brown drove up to his polling place in Wrentham in the green pickup truck that came to symbolize his upstart, workmanlike campaign that in the past week pulled him into a surprise dead heat in polls. "It would make everybody the 41st senator, and it would bring fairness and discussion back to the equation," the state senator said of a potential victory. He spent the rest of the day out of public view, crafting evening rally remarks that had the potential to be an early State of the Union speech for the national Republican Party.

Coakley, stunned to see a double-digit lead evaporate in recent weeks, counted on labor unions and reawakened Democrats to turn out on her behalf and preserve a seat Kennedy and his brother, President John F. Kennedy, held for over 50 years. The senator died in August of brain cancer. "We're paying attention to the ground game," Coakley, the state's attorney general, said casting her vote in suburban Medford. "Every game has its own dynamics."

[kimujnr]

NOOOO... wait, who cares?

[MarineCorps]

NOOOO... wait, who cares?
I have to be represented by him. I knew I should have voted......

[Rilence]

NOOOO... wait, who cares?
This hurts the Democrats in terms of health care reform.

[kimujnr]

This hurts the Democrats in terms of health care reform.

Sadly I know, the guy's vowed to go all Darth Vader on the bill. Hopefully those royal f**kups find a way to sneak it in before its too late.

[LineDoggie]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Hell, Teddy Kennedy is reenacting William Shatner in Wrath of Khan......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54

[Wimbly]

Sadly I know, the guy's vowed to go all Darth Vader on the bill. Hopefully those royal f**kups find a way to sneak it in before its too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

[0rphie]

I hope that tide reversed and soon we will see a restoration of balances in DC

[LineDoggie]

NOOOO... wait, who cares?
It could stop Obamas Healthcare agenda in its tracks.

[Arnie100]

Some of our left-leaning members probably cares...

[Wimbly]

I hope that tide reversed and soon we will see a restoration of balances in DC

Its the best thing that could happen to the country and the Obama administration.

[Arnie100]

It means the Obama Admin will have to actually talk to Republicans if he wants something done. He just can't ignore them anymore.

[SeanAshi]

Sadly I know, the guy's vowed to go all Darth Vader on the bill. Hopefully those royal f**kups find a way to sneak it in before its too late.

That health care reform bill is total crap! Not to mention unconstitutional.

[szr]

That's pretty huge. Congrats to Senator-elect Brown.

[engfisix]

That's pretty huge. Congrats to Senator-elect Brown.

Congrats indeed

[kimujnr]

Its the best thing that could happen to the country and the Obama administration.

I don't like your new found enthusiasm there bud!!:fork:

[SBL]

haha Awesome.

[wildcat]

good, our country need a government that is forced to work more across party lines, and not be in control of a single party, this is good news for Americans, now they get back to work, and work on bills that work.

[Arnie100]

Keith Olberman looked pissed!! Hahahaha!

[chauncy republicans]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Hell, Teddy Kennedy is reenacting William Shatner in Wrath of Khan......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54

LOL! Good one.

[Blue387]

While I'm a Democrat, I'm disappointed but I take consolation that he's a Republican from Massachusetts and going to be pretty liberal on issues when he votes on stuff. Knowing the current trend towards purity in conservative circles, Brown will more likely disappoint than support the tea-baggers. From my observations of politics, all politicians will disappoint voters.

Republicans can celebrate now but the victory lap will be ending abruptly as he needs to run for re-election in 2012. He'll have to spend his time raising money and getting things done. Knowing politicians, he'll promise the moon to get re-elected as politicians in power tend to stay in power unless acted upon by an external force. Especially in 2012, the Democrats will be out in force for the presidential election - Obama won the state by 25 points in 2008 - and with a better candidate, the Democrats could easily win this seat. If Brown won re-election in 2012, then this is an actual Republican revival in the northeast and not a blip.

[LineDoggie]

Keith Olberman looked pissed!! Hahahaha!Betcha he kills a Hooker tonight after she laughs at his Bob Dole Problem

[gaijinsamurai]

On Brown's website he says he's "pro-2nd Ammendment". That's a good sign.

[Jobu]

Stunning. This guy nobody had ever heard of was down by 30pts a few weeks ago.

This is an opportunity for the Dems to move toward the center and save Obama's presidency. Are they smart enough? Is Obama smart enough to make it happen? Time will tell.

[Hilbert]

Its the best thing that could happen to the country and the Obama administration.

The best thing that could happen to this country is that we get a viable third party with enough political clout to oppose the Republicans and Democrats, say a much larger and stronger Libertarian party or something along those lines. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have already done enough damage and shredding of our Constitution.

Although I have to admit if I could've I would've bit my tongue, held my nose and voted for Brown simply for the sake of slowing down this garbage and totally unconstitutional healthcare reform.


On Brown's website he says he's "pro-2nd Ammendment". That's a good sign.

Hopefully it proves accurate. Many of the very same people who helped get us the Assault Weapons ban and other worthless desecrations of the 2nd Amendment have claimed their not anti-gun, some even saying their part of the "pro-gun lobby.' His actions will speak far louder than claims. To his credit, he does have an "A" rating from the NRA.

[Geezah]

Good for him. Looks like Mass will now have a Senator with some intelligence.

I wonder if Obama is getting the message yet..........


Scott Brown on Gun Control

Concealed carry ok; but licenses & background checks ok too. (Nov 2002)

Link (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Scott_Brown.htm#Gun_Control)

Glancing over his resume, I would say I agree with him for the most part.

[Blue387]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.

[shocker1]

On Brown's website he says he's "pro-2nd Ammendment". That's a good sign.
He can help keep this guy from being placed on the Supreme Court if Ginsburg retires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flfHZgT-SeI

[Jobu]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats

Do you live in a cave?

[Arnie100]

^^Probably does.

[Geezah]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.

I seem to remember a push by the Right for Tort Reform, yet the Left ignored it, as for a large few on the Left, isn't this how they made their money?

[FullMetalJackass]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.

Nothing like watching the pendulum begin its swing towards the center and reading incoherent justifications from lefties on why it doesn't really matter.

[Blue387]

Do you live in a cave?

In my defense, my cave is quite toasty in winter.

[kimujnr]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.

Clearly from the responses your not gonna ruin this party! rofl

[Zoomie]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.
Considering the stupidity that's running rampant in congress where they're damn the debt, full deficit ahead, can you blame them? So where do you get the silly idea that republicans have no interest to fix things, last time I check they proposed some ideas for the health care bill, and weren't the ones trying to ramrod it through congress. And when was GM saved? Last I checked, we just dumped billions and billions more into them this month, just to keep them afloat. Last I checked, that's not being saved.

[FullMetalJackass]

Second best thing to come from Teddys death, the first was that he died.

[BlackFlag]

In my defense, my cave is quite toasty in winter.

Must be from that burning house that you mentioned earlier.

[G-AWZT]

WOOT! Chris Matthews, Keith Dolderdunce and Rachel Madcow must be disappointed. Remember Madcow....................always smile.

[Hilbert]

Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out?
Because its generally not a good idea to try and "put out" a fire by throwing gasoline on it.


If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.
I agree with this statement, however your beloved Democrats are no better than the Republicans.

[Blue387]

Before you bash me as being another work-shy lefty, I need a place to vent and right-wing trolls are spamming YouTube and Flickr and I avoid Daily Kos and other liberal sites. I don't even watch MSNBC as I don't have cable. This explains why I hang out here of all places. I like being unusual. I don't see you right wingers listening praising Neal Conan on NPR or Jim Lehrer.

[Smitty_Damitty]

All this hub-bub about Blown's election derailing healthcare reform and for what? Since when did the majority ruling cease to be a governmental standard? How is 59 votes unable to pass a bill as opposed to 60?

In any case, Good on Senator-Elect Brown. He showed himself to be a class act throughout the entire campaign, unlike Coakley, and took nothing for granted. His victory is well-deserved.

Majority or not, I hope his election actually does shake up healthcare reform but, not for the reasons some may think. I was favor of a public option and this turd they're trying to push through now, has no one that can fully explain what it is. The GOP just says it's socialism and evil, unconstitutional, etc and the Dems just say pass it or bankrupt the nation. One thing is certain, it's bullsh*t. The public option works for the military, why not the rest of the country.

Sorry for the OT rant.

[Geezah]

Bill is no longer filibuster proof, after all it's not what the majority of Americans want.

[seraosha]

I love our state and federal government process.
Voting is cool!
America, Fvck Yeah!

[MaNiC]

Well Coakley definitely lived up to the full potential of the DNC mascot. She tried to wing it and it didn't work. She took things for granted and made some pretty embarrassing gaffes along the way too. Meanwhile Senator-elect Brown ran a good campaign that got enough Independents involved to put him over the top, so kudos to him for that.

Having said that, I don't doubt that she is a fine public servant. Apparently she just couldn't be bothered to go out and do the hard work of actually campaigning.

But I still don't get what all the political pundits are talking about. The Democrats still have a majority in congress, Health Care legislation will still pass (most likely by employing the budget reconciliation tactic which ironically was first implemented by Reagan Republicans back in the '80s to steamroll their agenda through congress), Guantanamo will still shut down (albeit after the self imposed deadline by Obama, but it will get done nonetheless), and slowly but surely Obama has been getting almost everything on his agenda accomplished.

For the sake of fairness and equality, I hope that Senator-elect Brown is seated as quickly as possible and with no delays, even if I do think that he's a bumbling idiot. Sheesh, the dude wouldn't shut up about his stupid truck in his victory speech.

PS - Last but not least... bring on the hate.

[MN_Air]

The Cockly lady or whomever she may be strongly opposed guns and would have been the death of firearms in MA. Or so I have read from the NRA. Congratulations Mr. Brown on ending the liberal tyranny.

[Smitty_Damitty]

Bill is no longer filibuster proof, after all it's not what the majority of Americans want.
Understood, but a non filibuster-proof majority is a majority nonetheless. Strom Thurmond delayed the Civil Rights Act for an entire 24hr day! Yet, it was ultimately passed. My point is, I don't see why everyone insists that this healthcare bill can't be passed if the Dems don't want it to be passed. Since when did the minority's rule become law?

[SBL]

Bill is no longer filibuster proof, after all it's not what the majority of Americans want.
The result is also likely to shake-up some of the less stalwart democratic support for the bill.

[Panchito12]

Happy days are here again!!!

[11 Bravo]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.


So you don't think the demcratzis are not left nutters by and large?... what rock have you been hiding under ?. Please do take it personally if it makes you feel any better.The bank bailouts were not necessary... only friends of the prez and his party got them... those wealthy unionistas and liberal banker bigwigs - but they are bailing now as it's cutting into their pockets !. Of course voting Republican will not fix everything , but it will sure put the brakes on socialism in this country. I do agree the "healthcare" in the USA needs reforms... but NOT GOVERNMENT run or Mandated "programs" with more bloated bureaucracy by the gov't for the gov't. All those years with Rahm Emmanuele , Chris Dodd and barney frankfurter in the banking committees and boards of fannie and freddie where the tools used for deregulation in their interests , and in their interests they engineered profit for themselves and their cozy friends as well as looking at how to steer any bad event of same for their political aims. I'm all for change now... a change of the "change".

[Imp]

Man, if anyone had said a year ago today, that a Republican would win Teddy Kennedy's seat by 5 points, they would have been locked up in the asylum. UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE! And unfreakingbelievably awesome! If the GOP can win in Mass. there aren't many Democrat seats that are truly safe.

[Blue387]

So you don't think the demcratzis are not left nutters by and large?... what rock have you been hiding under ?. Please do take it personally if it makes you feel any better.The bank bailouts were not necessary... only friends of the prez and his party got them... those wealthy unionistas and liberal banker bigwigs - but they are bailing now as it's cutting into their pockets !. Of course voting Republican will not fix everything , but it will sure put the brakes on socialism in this country. I do agree the "healthcare" in the USA needs reforms... but NOT GOVERNMENT run or Mandated "programs" with more bloated bureaucracy by the gov't for the gov't. All those years with Rahm Emmanuele , Chris Dodd and barney frankfurter in the banking committees and boards of fannie and freddie where the tools used for deregulation in their interests , and in their interests they engineered profit for themselves and their cozy friends as well as looking at how to steer any bad event of same for their political aims. I'm all for change now... a change of the "change".

Was this supposed to be in English?

[Noons86]

New Question: How long will Brown last?

[Smitty_Damitty]

I don't understand voter anger against the Democrats in Congress as I strangely take it personally. The Democrats are not particularly left-wing at all - ask any actual member of the left or from Europe. The health care bill is not single-payer and is an incoherent centrist mess. The health care system is a mess and at least credit us for attempting to fix it. Why let a house on fire keep burning if you can put it out? The Republicans have no desire to fix the health care system or anything else for that matter. The bank bailouts and saving GM and Chrysler were necessary evils as the alternative was far worse - the destruction of American industry in the Midwest and the collapse of capitalism. If things are bad now, wait until the Republicans gum up the works!

If you think voting Republican in November will fix things, think again.
You know that feeling in your gut that tells you "I spent way too much money on that lap dance"? That's called Buyer's remorse. That's what is happening now. The nation went cyclic when voting the Dems into the majority and with few exceptions, have jack and sh*t to show for it. You're right, healthcare is a complete clusterf*ck. F*cking it up even more with a bill that cannot be explained in plain English, make the Dems no more worthy of thanks than the Republicans that try to shoot this bill down without a replacement bill waiting in the wings. I don't believe that the GOP doesn't want to fix healthcare, they're just so hellbent on destroying the current bill, that they're losing sight of what WE the people want.
I believe the bailout was better than the alternative but, where is the oversight, the promised business reform? Why are Wall Street fat cats lining their pockets with bigger bonuses than before? There's the source of the voter anger.


So you don't think the demcratzis are not left nutters by and large?... what rock have you been hiding under ?. Please do take it personally if it makes you feel any better.The bank bailouts were not necessary... only friends of the prez and his party got them... those wealthy unionistas and liberal banker bigwigs - but they are bailing now as it's cutting into their pockets !. Of course voting Republican will not fix everything , but it will sure put the brakes on socialism in this country. I do agree the "healthcare" in the USA needs reforms... but NOT GOVERNMENT run or Mandated "programs" with more bloated bureaucracy by the gov't for the gov't. All those years with Rahm Emmanuele , Chris Dodd and barney frankfurter in the banking committees and boards of fannie and freddie where the tools used for deregulation in their interests , and in their interests they engineered profit for themselves and their cozy friends as well as looking at how to steer any bad event of same for their political aims. I'm all for change now... a change of the "change".

Then what would be the soulution? This is my point exactly, the Righties have no alternative solution to Gov't run healthcare, except to say that it's not the solution to the problem. Well, why didn't someone just say that sooner, that fixes everything, doesn't it?:roll: A problem isn't, unless it has a solution.
To top it off the Dems become Nazis and Socialists when all else fails. I don't know about you, but last time I checked, my fellow citizens weren't being marched off to labor camps, the Republican opposition being purged. You want to talk about DNC members getting fat off of the old days of de-regulation, well isn't Dodd paying for that now, I think so.

Whatever, I'm all over the place, I need a drink.

[Smitty_Damitty]

New Question: How long will Brown last?

We'll see, that's for sure. I don't see how he would last in Mass if he doesn't tow a moderate line. Same thing happened in Maryland when Ehrlich was elected governor, bricks were shat, being the DNC stronghold that it is. But he ultimately was a one term governor. Schwarzenegger, love or hate him, is an example the likes of which Brown needs to follow if he wants to be more than a glitch in Mass' voting record. Like Arnie, if he puts his state before his party, he should do fine. All in all, I wish him luck. Bravo Zulu.

[Holmes85]

WOOT! Chris Matthews, Keith Dolderdunce and Rachel Madcow must be disappointed. Remember Madcow....................always smile.

Interesting nicknames you've come-up.:-)

[IconOfEvi]

^^Probably does.

Quick! Trace his IP -we found OBL!

lol for reals, this is the most awesomest **** that could come out of today. So happy. Razor thin, but its just enough. Also, the reign of the Kennedy's is FINALLY over. Thank God.

[Nano]

The bill will still pass it will only take a bit longer for the commies to pass it. Unless the Republicans give two ****s which probably only a handful if at that do they would filibuster the damn thing till kingdom come.(2012)

[LineDoggie]

New Question: How long will Brown last? Its a 2 year position finishing out Ted Kennedy's term. Then he would have to run again on his record.

[Noons86]

The bill will still pass it will only take a bit longer for the commies to pass it.

Commies. Sure. Commies, all elected by the American people. Think about that. How many Americans are Communists then?

[Nano]

Commies. Sure. Commies, all elected by the American people. Think about that. How many Americans are Communists then?
A whole lot of them what's your point? Elected to do what break the U.S. Constitution? Last time I recall the oath of office does not call for destroying it one piece at a time.

[SoftLion]

I find it insightful that a relatively unknown Republican wins a seat for the first time in 30 years in a state that has traditionally been a Democratic stronghold - if this can happen in a place like Massachusetts, I would think the Democrats should be worried about the upcoming elections.

[sergey31]

This news made my day for sure.

[Nano]

This news made my day for sure.
Yeah not such bad news. 1 down 59+ to go.

[0rphie]

Man, if anyone had said a year ago today, that a Republican would win Teddy Kennedy's seat by 5 points, they would have been locked up in the asylum. UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE! And unfreakingbelievably awesome! If the GOP can win in Mass. there aren't many Democrat seats that are truly safe.
again and again, it was NOT Teddy Kennedy's seat - it was Massachusetts people seat!

[JKD]

so it goes

[HollywoodMarine]

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2010/01/20/PH2010012000024.jpg
Way to go Sir <wow>.... is that his daughter in the background?


http://wbli.com/images/dirt/ayla-brown.jpg ;)

[Noons86]

A whole lot of them what's your point? Elected to do what break the U.S. Constitution? Last time I recall the oath of office does not call for destroying it one piece at a time.

To call members of an American Political party that has existed for over 150 years a McCarthy-era epithet is patently stupid and/or unbelievably paranoid. That is my point.

Therefore, for my own perverse interests, I will try to maximize your paranoia.

Yes, it is true, they are all communists, spies for the Soviet Union. They broke up in 1991? That's what they want you to think. And they are all trying to destroy the constitution and your freedom. Yes. Your freedom. They're everywhere. You are surrounded by communists. Everyone who disagrees with you on this forum is a communist. Your neighbor who votes differently from you? He's one of them. And they are trying to brainwash you and your children. They are indoctrinating your kids right now with evolution. And they are trying to turn your kids gay. And there's a black helicopter hovering over your house right now.

You are surrounded by communists. Now. Run. Scream. Loudly.

[Smitty_Damitty]

again and again, it was NOT Teddy Kennedy's seat - it was Massachusetts people seat!
I suppose, if you wanted to be technical about it.;)



http://wbli.com/images/dirt/ayla-brown.jpg
Not that hot dude, not at all. Somethings off about this broad.

[Noons86]

We'll see, that's for sure. I don't see how he would last in Mass if he doesn't tow a moderate line. Same thing happened in Maryland when Ehrlich was elected governor, bricks were shat, being the DNC stronghold that it is. But he ultimately was a one term governor. Schwarzenegger, love or hate him, is an example the likes of which Brown needs to follow if he wants to be more than a glitch in Mass' voting record. Like Arnie, if he puts his state before his party, he should do fine. All in all, I wish him luck. Bravo Zulu.

True. He will be in a very tight spot, because if he wants to get re-elected he has to support policies that most Mass. voters will support, which tend to be Democratic policies. But on passing health care, the Democrats already have a 19-seat majority. That's more than the Republicans ever had during the Bush Administration, and they did mostly whatever they wanted. So if Obama and the Democrats can't get the health bill passed, it's their fault and no one else's. And its true that the current health care bill is this massive, convoluted bureaucratic pile of paper that no one can understand, but the Republican alternative can be summed up in three words: Don't get sick.

There is one advantage Obama may have with another moderate Republican in the senate: It will be that much easier to commit more resources to Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

so it goesSo it goes.

[HollywoodMarine]

Not that hot dude, not at all. Somethings off about this broad.
Jesus ACOG Christ... you and a few of my Marine buddies have issues. ;)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I find it insightful that a relatively unknown Republican wins a seat for the first time in 30 years in a state that has traditionally been a Democratic stronghold - if this can happen in a place like Massachusetts, I would think the Democrats should be worried about the upcoming elections.

Heh heh, yeah looks like a severe case of buyer's remorse.

[Smitty_Damitty]

Jesus ACOG Christ... you and a few of my Marine buddies have issues. ;)
Are they out? Because if they are, that explains everything. You have to turn in your issued beer goggles before PCSing to the CIVDIV.:lol:

[Smitty_Damitty]

I find it insightful that a relatively unknown Republican wins a seat for the first time in 30 years in a state that has traditionally been a Democratic stronghold - if this can happen in a place like Massachusetts, I would think the Democrats should be worried about the upcoming elections.
I call Arizona next. Takers?

[ssalb]

Great big party at my house last night, champagne and all, as we all saw his speech. I, along many others, have campaigned (unofficially) hard for Brown to win this state. I have talked to many people that voted for Obama last year and have now realized that he is a "fluke" (in their words).
The Democrats seem to be passing the blame around but there is not one person at fault here. Coakley assumed she had won from day one, she did not even bother to campaign properly, extremely presumptuous and offensive. Serve her bloody right. Personally i assume most of the blame would go to Obama's lunatic policies. The healthcare system, the healthcare system, the healthcare system.... what about the damn healthcare system? I do not know if Obama has ever needed medical care outside U.S but I would very strongly doubt it. Because if he had he would have realized by now that there is ABSOLUTELY no comparison. The level of knowledge, technology and research in here is years ahead of that of other countries, and this can only come from private funding.

[chauncy republicans]

To call members of an American Political party that has existed for over 150 years a McCarthy-era epithet is patently stupid and/or unbelievably paranoid. That is my point.

Therefore, for my own perverse interests, I will try to maximize your paranoia.

Yes, it is true, they are all communists, spies for the Soviet Union. They broke up in 1991? That's what they want you to think. And they are all trying to destroy the constitution and your freedom. Yes. Your freedom. They're everywhere. You are surrounded by communists. Everyone who disagrees with you on this forum is a communist. Your neighbor who votes differently from you? He's one of them. And they are trying to brainwash you and your children. They are indoctrinating your kids right now with evolution. And they are trying to turn your kids gay. And there's a black helicopter hovering over your house right now.

You are surrounded by communists. Now. Run. Scream. Loudly.
I like reading your posts noons, but this is extremely simplified, and I would expect somebody of your intelligence to at least be able to see the resemblance our system has taken to communism/socialism.
It doesn't necessarily have to come from the barrel of a gun.
The systematic deconstruction of our Constitution is evident to anybody who doesn't temper their reason with pro-government propaganda. Freedoms are being stripped at an alarming rate, you can't debate that, the only debate is if it's justified or not. Look into the the history of Julius Caesar, and how a man who wanted to take Rome back for the Romans unwittingly stripped the people of their rights and freedoms, by setting the dictatorial precedent that remained unbroken for the rest of Roman history.

[Smitty_Damitty]

True. He will be in a very tight spot, because if he wants to get re-elected he has to support policies that most Mass. voters will support, which tend to be Democratic policies. But on passing health care, the Democrats already have a 19-seat majority. That's more than the Republicans ever had during the Bush Administration, and they did mostly whatever they wanted. So if Obama and the Democrats can't get the health bill passed, it's their fault and no one else's. And its true that the current health care bill is this massive, convoluted bureaucratic pile of paper that no one can understand, but the Republican alternative can be summed up in three words: Don't get sick.

There is one advantage Obama may have with another moderate Republican in the senate: It will be that much easier to commit more resources to Afghanistan and Iraq.
All true. But like I said earlier, I don't believe that the GOP doesn't want healthcare reform. They can't not want it, the debate has been forced on everybody. Nearly everybody I know can agree, in some shape or form, begrudgingly or not, that the current system can't be maintained like it is. Their heads are just so far up their asses that all they can think about is killing the bill. Likewise the Dems are suffering from rectal cranial inversion as well, in trying to push their mess of a bill through claiming that it's better than nothing. Bull, but for the most part, I can side with you.



I like reading your posts noons, but this is extremely simplified, and I would expect somebody of your intelligence to at least be able to see the resemblance our system has taken to communism/socialism.
It doesn't necessarily have to come from the barrel of a gun.
The systematic deconstruction of our Constitution is evident to anybody who doesn't temper their reason with pro-government propaganda. Freedoms are being stripped at an alarming rate, you can't debate that, the only debate is if it's justified or not. Look into the the history of Julius Caesar, and how a man who wanted to take Rome back for the Romans unwittingly stripped the people of their rights and freedoms, by setting the dictatorial precedent that remained unbroken for the rest of Roman history.
I guess you ought to be packing some essentials then, you're bound to be taking a trip once the gov't gets a hold of your chat logs. But please, and I'm being totally serious, explain what freedoms are being taken away from us, or should I start a thread on that as well. The tried and true Caesar argument, hmm. What's wrong with that. Well let's see, there was nothing "unwitting" about Caesar's hold on power. The dictatorship was given to him not once, but twice by the Senate, the representative of the people. It was the Senate that broke precedent by giving Caesar the dictatorship longer than the traditional 6 month term. It was the Senate that gave the dictator the power to any change law by decree, and he did. Redistribution, ha! Yes, Obama is assembling the armed forces as we speak to redistribute land and wealth by force, ala Caesar. You want to say that socialist change doesn't necessarily come from the barrel of a gun but, negate the fact that the majority all successful socialist/communist governments came into being through violent, Revolutionary socialist doctrine, not Reformist socialism, seeing as though you're so keen on precedent. You also, seem to ignore the fact that socialist doctrine itself states that pure communism would not be reached without a "Proletarian Revolution". Violence is a huge part of socialism, always has. That fact can't be argued.

[chauncy republicans]

My post was directed at noons, could you please point out where I asked for your input?

[Smitty_Damitty]

My post was directed at noons, could you please point out where I asked for your input?

I like reading your posts noons, but this is extremely simplified, and I would expect somebody of your intelligence to at least be able to see the resemblance our system has taken to communism/socialism.
It doesn't necessarily have to come from the barrel of a gun.
The systematic deconstruction of our Constitution is evident to anybody who doesn't temper their reason with pro-government propaganda. Freedoms are being stripped at an alarming rate, you can't debate that, the only debate is if it's justified or not. Look into the the history of Julius Caesar, and how a man who wanted to take Rome back for the Romans unwittingly stripped the people of their rights and freedoms, by setting the dictatorial precedent that remained unbroken for the rest of Roman history.
The part right above where you decided to air out your views on a f*cking public forum.:roll:

[chauncy republicans]

Didn't think so.

Anyhow, lets see what Keith Olbermann's take on Brown is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5dgMBjvl4

[LS1 Miata]

Considering the stupidity that's running rampant in congress where they're damn the debt, full deficit ahead, can you blame them? So where do you get the silly idea that republicans have no interest to fix things, last time I check they proposed some ideas for the health care bill, and weren't the ones trying to ramrod it through congress. And when was GM saved? Last I checked, we just dumped billions and billions more into them this month, just to keep them afloat. Last I checked, that's not being saved.

The GOP: Fiscal Conservatives since 1/20/2009

[Smitty_Damitty]

Didn't think so.

Anyhow, lets see what Keith Olbermann's take on Brown is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5dgMBjvl4
Oh man, when you're right, you're right chauncy. Now, am I forbidden to comment on the video link as well?

Anyway, since I'm forbidden from talking to chauncy, Olberdouche's rant last night full of butthurt. He's the ultimate troll, the 'prove me wrong' at the end he was golden.

[American Patriot]

aw man does this mean im not going to get my free health insurance from the government? :( :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jobu]

The GOP: Fiscal Conservatives since 1/20/2009

Better late than never.

[California Joe]

Martha Coakley=The Bill Buckner of Democrat politicians

[Will Clark]

I'm glad scott brown won, this is a good thing for all Americans. Any democrat who bitches that this will ruin their healthcare bill needs to take a step back and wonder why that is. If Americans supported this bill, republicans would lose their asses for fighting it. If it's so hated that not a single republican will support it(and thus make its passage more difficult), then maybe you should take a step back and work on making it more acceptable to everyone rather than tell us we're gonna take it and like it. Americans don't like being told what to do by the government.

Anyhow, Brown ran on the 'kill the bill' platform, the people of Massachusetts want this bill to die. The fact that they've already seen universal healthcare and don't support this probably isn't a coincidence.

Also, for everyone who thinks the problem is democrats needs a clue. Republican domination in congress and the white house is just as dangerous (and historically irritating) as democratic control. Republican control from 2001-2006 wasn't all sunshine and lollipops if you'll recall. It took democratic control of congress to at least put a stop to that. The mean time gives us an increased amount of bull**** flowing from the media, but at least nothing so partisan was being done. Now the democrats have the white house as well, and we're back to dealing with partisan bull**** supported by the crazies on one side only.

With the political climate we have now, our safest options are to either pass stuff that everyone loves, or pass nothing.

[RICHICOQUI]

Martha Coakley=The Bill Buckner of Democrat politicians I don't think anything have gone between her legs in a long time C J!! p-)

[Euroamerican]

Nice... I just heard the hourly newscast on ABC radio. They played a short clip where President Obama basically blamed the Brown win on Bush...

He said that the election results were due to people wanting change, the same sort of change that he himself wanted because of what happened during the previous eight yearsrofl

[seraosha]

Until you learn that everything is Bush's fault, you just aren't going to be with the program man.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Martha Coakley=The Bill Buckner of Democrat politiciansOuch.
I don't think anything have gone between her legs in a long time C J!! p-)Too awesome for words. Very well played... )))

[Holmes85]

This story originally comes from the AP: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34952671/ns/politics-capitol_hill/



Dems reeling, soul-searching after Mass. loss

Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/APTRANS.gif
updated 1 hour, 20 minutes ago

BOSTON - Republican Scott Brown, fresh from a stunning Massachusetts Senate victory that shook the power balance on Capitol Hill, declared Wednesday that his election had sent a "very powerful message" that voters are weary of backroom deals and Washington business-as-usual.

Democrats scrambled to explain the loss, which imperils President Barack Obama's agenda for health care and other hard-fought domestic issues. Republicans greeted their victory with clear glee. "The president ought to take this as a message to recalibrate how he wants to govern, and if he wants to govern from the middle we'll meet him there," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Obama said the Massachusetts vote reflected the mood around the country. "People are angry, and they're frustrated," he said in an interview with ABC News. Democrats still exercise majority control over both the House and Senate. But Tuesday's GOP upset to win the seat long held by the late Sen. Edward Kennedy — following Republican victories in Virginia and New Jersey last fall for gubernatorial seats that had been held by Democrats — signals challenges for Democratic prospects in midterm elections this year. Even when the economy is not bad, the party holding the White House historically loses seats in midterms.

"If there's anybody in this building that doesn't tell you they are more worried about elections today, you should absolutely slap them," Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri told reporters at the Capitol. "Of course everybody is more worried about elections. Are you kidding? It's what this place thrives on."
Brown, in his first meeting with reporters after the special election, portrayed his victory as less a referendum on Obama or the president's health care proposal and more of a sign that people are tired of Washington politics and dealmaking.

He said his victory sends "a very powerful message that business-as-usual is just not going to be the way we do it." "I think it's important that we hit the ground running," Brown said. He said he would pay a courtesy call to the nation's capital on Thursday. "Game's over. Let's get to work," he added. It was not clear how quickly he would be sworn in, but Democratic Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia said the Senate should not hold any further votes on health care until Brown is seated. That, said McConnell, probably means there will be no further Senate action until then.

At the White House, Obama senior adviser David Axelrod said the president agreed with Webb. Brown won the election and "no one is going to circumvent that," Axelrod told MSNBC.

Brown's victory gives Republicans 41 votes in the Senate, upending the Democrats' ability to stop filibusters and other delaying tactics. Counting the two Senate independents who usually vote with Democrats on procedural issues, the party will be able to muster only 59 votes, at most, one short of the number needed. Brown said that, while he planned to caucus with Republicans, "I'm not beholden to anybody."

Democrats were licking their wounds and demonstrating that they got the message from voters and were willing to reach out. White House tourists even got a surprise Wednesday when first lady Michelle Obama showed up as their greeter to mark the end of Obama's first year as president. She brought the family dog, Bo, to the Blue Room. She chatted with guests and hugged many of them as they filed in.

Obama himself grimly faced a need to regroup in a White House shaken by the realization of what a difference a year made. In addition to searching for ways to salvage the health care overhaul, the Democratic Party also faced a need to determine how to assuage an angry electorate, and particularly attract independent voters who have fled to the GOP after a year of Wall Street bailouts, economic stimulus spending and enormous budget deficits.

There was a sense that if Republicans could win in one of the country's most traditionally liberal states, Massachusetts, they could probably win anywhere. "I think every state is now in play, absolutely," said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley, the attorney general who had been considered a surefire winner until just days ago. Her loss signaled big political problems for Obama and the Democratic Party this fall when House, Senate and gubernatorial candidates are on the ballot nationwide.

As if in a nod to voter disgust with Washington, Obama signed a directive Wednesday aimed at stopping government contracts from going to tax-delinquent companies. "We need to insist on the same sense of responsibility in Washington that so many of you strive to uphold in your own lives, in your own families and in your own businesses," Obama said.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona, Obama's Republican presidential rival in 2008, likened Brown's win to the Revolutionary War's "shot heard 'round the world" in Concord, Mass., in April 1775. McCain said the message was clear: "No more business as usual in Washington. Stop this unsavory sausage-making process."

White House officials acknowledged that one of the lessons from Massachusetts was the intensity of voter anger, but they said it wasn't so much with Obama as with Washington's failures in general and with the moribund economy. "There are messages here. We hear those messages," said Axelrod. "There is a general sense of discontent about the economy. And there is a general sense of discontent about this town" Congressional Democrats were urging their House and Senate candidates to embrace in their campaigns against Republicans the populist appeal the president had made on Sunday as he rushed to Boston to try to save Coakley and the Senate seat held by Democrats for more than a half-century.

His attempt didn't work, but House and Senate Democrats insisted that the pitch — Democrats work for the people, Republicans work for Wall Street — was simply made too late. Brown, 50, will finish Kennedy's unexpired term, facing re-election in 2012. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pledged to seat Brown immediately, a hasty retreat from pre-election Democratic threats to delay his swearing-in until after the health bill passed.

[JPBaz]

It means the Obama Admin will have to actually talk to Republicans if he wants something done. He just can't ignore them anymore.

But I guess the Republicans can still go on ignoring the Dems though.

Hey, we get what we deserve.

[IconOfEvi]

http://billstclair.com/blog/images/george-bush-miss-me-yet.jpg





Incidentally, everyone I talk to pretty much hates our governor, Doyle. I have yet to find a person who'll be voting for him, and Ive gone to asking random people. Our Senators don't fare much better. Holy hell, the Dems are going to take it bad later this year and 2012.

[Laconian]

2012 is a ways out. If the economy is still in the crapper, then yeah they will probably take it on the chin. But career politicians will find a way to survive.

[JPBaz]

Martha Coakley=The Bill Buckner of Democrat politicians

Very true, thanks for Bringing up 86 again as if I was not already prepared to jump off of the Tobin Bridge...:-) Does that make Duval Patrick the Calvin Schiraldi?



Anyhow, Brown ran on the 'kill the bill' platform, the people of Massachusetts want this bill to die. The fact that they've already seen universal healthcare and don't support this probably isn't a coincidence...
With the political climate we have now, our safest options are to either pass stuff that everyone loves, or pass nothing.

That is the funny thing about the Brown win, Massachusetts already has universal coverage and over 80% of the Citizens support our system. If I had to guess Coakley's comment about there being no Taliban in Afghanistan and calling Kurt Schilling a Yankee had as much to do with putting Brown over the top as anything else. We take our Red Sox very seriously here. Brown energized the suburbs and Coakley alienated the cities. Coakley ran an awful campaign, it is embarrassing. Neither Teddy or even John Kerry would ever have lost to this guy.

Oh, BTW, passing nothing is exactly what the Republican plan has been. Don't contribute and snipe and insult the President from the sidelines. Before you compare the Republican's treatment of Obama to the Democrat's treatment of Bush, please consider that Bush had to work very hard over many years to earn the lack of respect he has received from the American people.

I predict a two and out unless Brown becomes the next Bill Weld.

[seraosha]

That is the funny thing about the Brown win, Massachusetts already has universal coverage and over 80% of the Citizens support our system.


Got a link to that "80%" ?
Not saying you pulled it out of your ass, but...

[Nano]

To call members of an American Political party that has existed for over 150 years a McCarthy-era epithet is patently stupid and/or unbelievably paranoid. That is my point.

Therefore, for my own perverse interests, I will try to maximize your paranoia.

Yes, it is true, they are all communists, spies for the Soviet Union. They broke up in 1991? That's what they want you to think. And they are all trying to destroy the constitution and your freedom. Yes. Your freedom. They're everywhere. You are surrounded by communists. Everyone who disagrees with you on this forum is a communist. Your neighbor who votes differently from you? He's one of them. And they are trying to brainwash you and your children. They are indoctrinating your kids right now with evolution. And they are trying to turn your kids gay. And there's a black helicopter hovering over your house right now.

You are surrounded by communists. Now. Run. Scream. Loudly.
Where did I say the members of "an American Political party" were all communists. People can put words into people's mouth or twist what is said. It matters not what is said, but the actions taken and supported.Communists.Republicans,Democrats, Libertarians, and Greens etc. all, but a percentage actually hold their actions to what they supposedly stand for and have said to stand for. Economic freedom is by far one of the most important freedoms we can have in this country and to chose not to support government corruption.
The freedom to chose how to spend one's own hard earned money is by its very essence of our society real freedom and having the government dictate ever more how that money is spent is not freedom.
Taxes that provide for the governmental functions as outlined in the Constitution is one thing; taxes,jail time/fines for anything other than that is tantamount to slavery.
It is odd that people find it strange that a country that essentially was founded on the above grievances/principles and shed much blood for it think that those people are the one's who are paranoid.

Those who live in California/Commiefornia as I like to call it at times will have notice that the state of California is now withholding more in taxes from their paycheck. Why?because they simply want to hold onto power that gives them the ability to enrich themselves and friends by spending it away.

Stop generalizing things about me, because you obviously don't know a damn thing about me. You have simply distorted everything I have said. I have never called any forum member communists because they simply disagreed with me on something. I have no issues with gays their life is theirs not mine to live freedom goes both ways. You think I disagree with the concept of evolution?LOL you definitely are just talking out of your ass. Please refrain on making yourself out as a complete and utter ignorant.

[Wimbly]

That is the funny thing about the Brown win, Massachusetts already has universal coverage and over 80% of the Citizens support our system.

I think you're confused. The health care reform in Massachusetts is very unpopular. People have less coverage, for more money. Which is one of the big criticisms of Obamacare.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Massachusetts-voters-know-all-about-health-care-reform----and-are-rejecting-it-82071637.html

One thing to keep in mind when factoring how the Senate election will turn out today in Massachusetts -- health care reform is pretty unpopular even in the deep blue state.


A poll over the weekend (http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/01/massachusetts-senate-poll.html) by a Democratic polling firm, Public Policy Polling, confirmed that of the Massachusetts residents who plan on showing up to vote today, 48 percent oppose Congressional Democrats' health care legislation and only 40 percent favor it. That's an interesting response, especially considering that Massachusetts already has its own state version of health care reform. It's doubly interesting when you consider that many observers have noted that the specifics of the Senate's health care legislation are very similar to the Massachusetts plan (http://spectator.org/blog/2009/12/15/is-romney-a-big-loser-in-senat). If anyone is in a position to know whether the Democrats' health care plans will work, it's the voters of Massachusetts.


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Massachusetts-voters-know-all-about-health-care-reform----and-are-rejecting-it-82071637.html#ixzz0dFzxxGkP

[Will Clark]

That is the funny thing about the Brown win, Massachusetts already has universal coverage and over 80% of the Citizens support our system. If I had to guess Coakley's comment about there being no Taliban in Afghanistan and calling Kurt Schilling a Yankee had as much to do with putting Brown over the top as anything else. We take our Red Sox very seriously here. Brown energized the suburbs and Coakley alienated the cities. Coakley ran an awful campaign, it is embarrassing. Neither Teddy or even John Kerry would ever have lost to this guy.

Oh, BTW, passing nothing is exactly what the Republican plan has been. Don't contribute and snipe and insult the President from the sidelines. Before you compare the Republican's treatment of Obama to the Democrat's treatment of Bush, please consider that Bush had to work very hard over many years to earn the lack of respect he has received from the American people.

I predict a two and out unless Brown becomes the next Bill Weld.

I as well would like a link to this 80% support. Sure lame comments can get a candidate in trouble, but not everyone voted for brown out of spite for the alternative. Some people actually vote based on the platform.

What are you talking about, snipe at the president from the sidelines? First off, we're referring to congress here, not the president. Second, what would you prefer I do, go to the white house and demand to speak with him? How exactly does one qualify as not on the sidelines? Third, it's absolutely ridiculous to give unwavering respect or disrespect to the politicians at any level. If they present a god awful idea or mask their intentions, don't support it, and vice versa. Fourth, maybe that is the republican plan and maybe it isn't, they certainly didn't do anything about it when they had absolute power. But either way I support their opposition to a bill shoved on us like this.

[IMTT]

But once again my numerous past commentary is vindicated and validated. Obama will not get a second term, he's the best thing to ever happen to the conservatives and independents, November will be a body slam for the Nationalists. The liberal socialist anti-Americans (BEDWETTERS) bottom feeders can go crawl on their hands and knees back in thier dark holes very soon. The real problem will be the lingering debt after all these morons depart office. O and yea the UE socialists can have him, our experiment will be over in 3 more years. Been there done that, checked the box, good bye brother man. The USA is not a Socialist country, thanks anyway keep that "overthere". America begins to awaken!

I'm only sad because I didn't place any large bets on this very predictable outcome and much more to follow.

The Honeymoon is now officailly over, Obama fail!

[JPBaz]

I think I pulled the 80% from yesterday's editorial page of the Boston Globe, the paper went out with the recycling today. Here is a link to a similar poll reported in the Globe that I think is the basis for the editorial.

The poll found that 79 percent of those surveyed wanted the law to continue, though a majority said there should be some changes, with cost reductions cited as the single most important change that needs to be made.

Only 11 percent of state residents favored repealing the law, similar to last year’s finding.


http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/09/28/support_for_mass_health_insurance_overhaul_drops_but_is_still_strong/

Please note that the poll you quoted was of people planning on voting in the Massachusetts election. The Tea Baggers and Suburban Republicans were out in force yesterday, that is not in question. If you ever listen to Right Wing radio here in the Boston area it is clear that the Tea Bagging public feels that health care in this country works and that anyone that needs coverage can just go to the emergency room. They forget that 97% of their friends and neighbors in Massachusetts have coverage thanks to the Massachusetts system (nanny state for you snipers out there :-)).

In the 2004 census, 15% of Americans do not have coverage (nationwide). As you would expect, the percentage increases as you move down the wealth ladder.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

On the sniping issue...Representative Joe Wilson ring a bell? This nation is in crisis and there has been little or no Republican support for our President. There has never been a Republican plan. The only plan was to kill reform in Clinton's first term and ever since. To the richest of Republican supporters, health care for the majority in this nation is never going to be an important issue. (The news out of the Supreme Court today only makes this situation worse but that is a debate for another time).

I never said that politicians deserve our blind support (although I do believe Brown is a lightweight and can be expected to kowtow to the orthodox Republican line), I just believe that every politician has a responsibility to try to govern, not sit on the sidelines like the current Republicans are doing, waiting for Obama to fail. One thing you have to say about Teddy's record, (as evidenced by the comments at his wake) he was always willing to reach across the aisle to work with his opponents in the best interest of the nation. He was very liberal and very flawed as a human being, but he was a true American icon in the Senate.

[JPBaz]

But once again my numerous past commentary is vindicated and validated. Obama will not get a second term, he's the best thing to ever happen to the conservatives and independents, November will be a body slam for the Nationalists. The liberal socialist anti-Americans (BEDWETTERS) bottom feeders can go crawl on their hands and knees back in thier dark holes very soon. The real problem will be the lingering debt after all these morons depart office. O and yea the UE socialists can have him, our experiment will be over in 3 more years. Been there done that, checked the box, good bye brother man. The USA is not a Socialist country, thanks anyway keep that "overthere". America begins to awaken!

I'm only sad because I didn't place any large bets on this very predictable outcome and much more to follow.

The Honeymoon is now officailly over, Obama fail!

Hey knuckle head, can you define socialism for me? Does it include unemployment benefits? Medicare for the elderly? Social Security? Public schools? Public works projects? Laws that protect minorities? Laws so that Monopolies and unrestrained financial services companies can not destroy our economy? BTW, that lingering debt started with your Boy Ronnie and W made it even worse.

Don't worry, Bush and Co. Supreme Court has guaranteed that Exxon will choose all your future leaders for you. No need to worry about another "Brother Man" getting in power.:roll:

[IMTT]

Hey knuckle head, can you define socialism for me? Does it include unemployment benefits? Medicare for the elderly? Social Security? Public schools? Public works projects? Laws that protect minorities? Laws so that Monopolies and unrestrained financial services companies can not destroy our economy? BTW, that lingering debt started with your Boy Ronnie and W made it even worse.

Don't worry, Bush and Co. Supreme Court has guaranteed that Exxon will choose all your future leaders for you. No need to worry about another "Brother Man" getting in power.:roll:

Here's a link for you that defines socialism very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I guess that spreading the wealth isn't going as well as you would like other than bank execs in bonuses? Wave your red flag for me. However Canada, the EU and Scandinavia have much better systems perhaps you would be much more satisfied there. Give it try and take many of your like minded friends as well. I got the memo that the Evil Bush and Regan have destroyed America. Your mantra is getting a little stale. Dust off some new rethoric, party lines and excuses for future use. Evil captlist pigs have kept the Workers locked in poverty as servants of the rich and wealthy among us who live & profit off the toil of the people, YADA YADA YADA. Please put down the Marx & Engels copy of "The Communist Manifesto" I know I know; all HAIL Comrade Obama! Hey you could always become a college professor and sell that crap to kids gulliable enough to believe anything you spit out of your face.

Don't be mad we gave it a try and the outcome is very predictable.

[Will Clark]

I think I pulled the 80% from yesterday's editorial page of the Boston Globe, the paper went out with the recycling today. Here is a link to a similar poll reported in the Globe that I think is the basis for the editorial.

The poll found that 79 percent of those surveyed wanted the law to continue, though a majority said there should be some changes, with cost reductions cited as the single most important change that needs to be made.

Only 11 percent of state residents favored repealing the law, similar to last year’s finding.


http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/09/28/support_for_mass_health_insurance_overhaul_drops_but_is_still_strong/

Please note that the poll you quoted was of people planning on voting in the Massachusetts election. The Tea Baggers and Suburban Republicans were out in force yesterday, that is not in question. If you ever listen to Right Wing radio here in the Boston area it is clear that the Tea Bagging public feels that health care in this country works and that anyone that needs coverage can just go to the emergency room. They forget that 97% of their friends and neighbors in Massachusetts have coverage thanks to the Massachusetts system (nanny state for you snipers out there :-)).

In the 2004 census, 15% of Americans do not have coverage (nationwide). As you would expect, the percentage increases as you move down the wealth ladder.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

On the sniping issue...Representative Joe Wilson ring a bell? This nation is in crisis and there has been little or no Republican support for our President. There has never been a Republican plan. The only plan was to kill reform in Clinton's first term and ever since. To the richest of Republican supporters, health care for the majority in this nation is never going to be an important issue. (The news out of the Supreme Court today only makes this situation worse but that is a debate for another time).

I never said that politicians deserve our blind support (although I do believe Brown is a lightweight and can be expected to kowtow to the orthodox Republican line), I just believe that every politician has a responsibility to try to govern, not sit on the sidelines like the current Republicans are doing, waiting for Obama to fail. One thing you have to say about Teddy's record, (as evidenced by the comments at his wake) he was always willing to reach across the aisle to work with his opponents in the best interest of the nation. He was very liberal and very flawed as a human being, but he was a true American icon in the Senate.

Alright well that's much less damning than 80% support. A majority agree with the concept, but think the implementation sucks; much like our current healthcare bill. Which is what I was saying. I am one of the 15% that are uninsured, I choose not to have health insurance. Given my age, wealth, and lifestyle I don't need it right now. The one time I needed surgery I paid cash. Point being that like that 80% figure, this 15% one isn't as solid or compelling as people try to make it appear. People who aren't at risk (like young people) have decided they don't need it. People who are rich can pay their own way. Cut them away and how many truly unfortunate who want insuranc but can't afford it are left? And remember that even these people are afforded healthcare, they just have to pay for it out of pocket in lieu of insurance.

I am not Representative Joe Wilson, I'm not sure how his outburst has anything to do with me. Also, he apologized. What crisis? Healthcare? That's not a crisis. As for the lack of support, why should they support his agenda? What's the thought process there, they must support the president until he proves himself wrong? And 100% of this country has emergency healthcare, the vast majority of this country have insurance. Those that don't must to pay out of pocket, what people seem to want isn't insurance at all.

Brown seems to have much more integrity than most other republicans, why do you think he will fold? Republicans certainly aren't sitting on the sidelines, once again, you aren't defining what 'sideline' even means. They created their own healthcare bill, they worked on amendments, and after all that was over with and the bill was pushed through, they did their best to stop it.

Teddy worked in (what I have to assume was) what he thought was in the nation's best interest. That doesn't get him a free pass, many people don't agree with his view of what's best. They have every right to try and stop legislation they disagree with, that's why we have representatives. If the measure is that popular, then they can't stop it. If it's not popular, then why is it wrong for them to get in the way?

[JPBaz]

I was looking for you to define Socialism and to see what parts of the American system you think are socialistic. I like living here thank you. I also did not say that Reagan destroyed America and for your information the flag in front of my house is Red, White and Blue. I have read the Communist Manifesto (unlike you I am sure) and I think it is somewhere in my attic next to my copies of Common Sense, Candide, On War, The Prince, Clash of Civilizations and Theodore Rex (my favorite book, great President and true progressive on the rights of the people, corporations, and even race).

"We" gave what a try? What was tried and who is "we"? I am sure you did not vote for Obama. What outcome was predictable? Predictable how? I am not trying to put words into your mouth, just trying to understand the blabber.

[eskachig]

You'll never get through to IMTT, he's in his own world. I think he'd prefer 19th century USA, without all that commie stuff.

Oh, and congrats Mr Brown, a well run campaign and a deserved win.

[eskachig]

Alright well that's much less damning than 80% support. A majority agree with the concept, but think the implementation sucks; much like our current healthcare bill. Which is what I was saying. I am one of the 15% that are uninsured, I choose not to have health insurance. Given my age, wealth, and lifestyle I don't need it right now. The one time I needed surgery I paid cash. Point being that like that 80% figure, this 15% one isn't as solid or compelling as people try to make it appear. People who aren't at risk (like young people) have decided they don't need it. People who are rich can pay their own way. Cut them away and how many truly unfortunate who want insuranc but can't afford it are left? And remember that even these people are afforded healthcare, they just have to pay for it out of pocket in lieu of insurance.What's funny is that the rich people typically have the best health insurance - because not having health insurance at all is a stupid gamble and if you have the money then why not? Stuff happens.

Anyway, there isn't anything damning about that "80%" figure - that's the number of people who want the law to continue, which means they support it.

[JPBaz]

Alright well that's much less damning than 80% support. A majority agree with the concept, but think the implementation sucks; much like our current healthcare bill. Which is what I was saying. I am one of the 15% that are uninsured, I choose not to have health insurance. Given my age, wealth, and lifestyle I don't need it right now. The one time I needed surgery I paid cash. Point being that like that 80% figure, this 15% one isn't as solid or compelling as people try to make it appear. People who aren't at risk (like young people) have decided they don't need it. People who are rich can pay their own way. Cut them away and how many truly unfortunate who want insuranc but can't afford it are left? And remember that even these people are afforded healthcare, they just have to pay for it out of pocket in lieu of insurance.

I am not Representative Joe Wilson, I'm not sure how his outburst has anything to do with me. Also, he apologized. What crisis? Healthcare? That's not a crisis. As for the lack of support, why should they support his agenda? What's the thought process there, they must support the president until he proves himself wrong? And 100% of this country has emergency healthcare, the vast majority of this country have insurance. Those that don't must to pay out of pocket, what people seem to want isn't insurance at all.

Brown seems to have much more integrity than most other republicans, why do you think he will fold? Republicans certainly aren't sitting on the sidelines, once again, you aren't defining what 'sideline' even means. They created their own healthcare bill, they worked on amendments, and after all that was over with and the bill was pushed through, they did their best to stop it.

Teddy worked in (what I have to assume was) what he thought was in the nation's best interest. That doesn't get him a free pass, many people don't agree with his view of what's best. They have every right to try and stop legislation they disagree with, that's why we have representatives. If the measure is that popular, then they can't stop it. If it's not popular, then why is it wrong for them to get in the way?

Will,

Be assured I was not calling you Joe Wilson but was referring to a large part of the Republican Party and the Right wing Blogosphere that refers everything that our President does as act of a communist agent. The thought process is that you should not call the President a liar on national TV and that his actions are symptomatic of the current Republican party. The famous YouTube where poor John McCain has to tell a women that Obama is and American and a good man is a classic example. Everyone on posting on the internet is sniping from the sidelines, we all have real jobs.

My point is that as a society, 15% of our population being uninsured is too high. I could not find the figures on Google quickly but we both will agree that the % for poor families is much higher. If you cut the rich away the percentage gets higher. In our Democracy we must insure that people have basic access to opportunity. That is why quality public education is so important. In my opinion, that is why quality public health care is also important. In Massachusetts 97% of people have health care, as stated in the article, 3% do not. I think you fall into that category. You can get away with it when you don't have a house or family. It's kind of tough when you do. I am 41 and a heart attack waiting to happen :grin: I need health insurance (and have it via my wife). IMO the Republican plan was a non starter, just a smoke screen. I am not going to debate the merits of the current bill but I will point out that the Evil President Obama today stated that the debate on the bill should be held off until Brown is seated. He does respect the nation and our democracy.

There is not much on Brown's record and I do not agree with his talking points RE Abortion, Lower Taxes (without any details), and the American Justice system. It looks like standard Rep. dogma. As I stated in my first post, the only way he stays in office is to pull a Bill Weld and be a left wing Republican. As a new Senator, I don't see him bucking the party line. There are already those MA Republican supporters (quoted on TV last night during the celebration) that see him as a Presidential Candidate. He will not be a maverick or cross party lines.

[Will Clark]

What's funny is that the rich people typically have the best health insurance - because not having health insurance at all is a stupid gamble and if you have the money then why not? Stuff happens.

Anyway, there isn't anything damning about that "80%" figure - that's the number of people who want the law to continue, which means they support it.

If you have the money then you don't need it. It's only a stupid gamble if you're in bad health, participate in dangerous activities, or don't have enough money to cover yourself. For instance, if you're 20 years old, eat right, workout, and don't play frogger in traffic, the odds of anything happening to you are very slim. If that same person doesn't mind paying inflated prices, they can have insurance. If real reform finally comes and these people can buy cheap catastrophic insurance and be done with it. The idea that they should be forced to buy insurance is just gross.

The 80% was damning to my argument, it means I was 80% wrong. But because the majority of people polled agreed that they wanted to see changes to it, it really helps my argument.

[Will Clark]

Will,

Be assured I was not calling you Joe Wilson but was referring to a large part of the Republican Party and the Right wing Blogosphere that refers everything that our President does as act of a communist agent. The thought process is that you should not call the President a liar on national TV and that his actions are symptomatic of the current Republican party. The famous YouTube where poor John McCain has to tell a women that Obama is and American and a good man is a classic example. Everyone on posting on the internet is sniping from the sidelines, we all have real jobs.

My point is that as a society, 15% of our population being uninsured is too high. I could not find the figures on Google quickly but we both will agree that the % for poor families is much higher. If you cut the rich away the percentage gets higher. In our Democracy we must insure that people have basic access to opportunity. That is why quality public education is so important. In my opinion, that is why quality public health care is also important. In Massachusetts 97% of people have health care, as stated in the article, 3% do not. I think you fall into that category. You can get away with it when you don't have a house or family. It's kind of tough when you do. I am 41 and a heart attack waiting to happen :grin: I need health insurance (and have it via my wife). IMO the Republican plan was a non starter, just a smoke screen. I am not going to debate the merits of the current bill but I will point out that the Evil President Obama today stated that the debate on the bill should be held off until Brown is seated. He does respect the nation and our democracy.

There is not much on Brown's record and I do not agree with his talking points RE Abortion, Lower Taxes (without any details), and the American Justice system. It looks like standard Rep. dogma. As I stated in my first post, the only way he stays in office is to pull a Bill Weld and be a left wing Republican. As a new Senator, I don't see him bucking the party line. There are already those MA Republican supporters (quoted on TV last night during the celebration) that see him as a Presidential Candidate. He will not be a maverick or cross party lines.

Hmm, cool. Well each side has the crazies on their end of the bell curve, just don't forget that they're not the norm. To say that Wilson's comments are symptomatic of the republican party is like saying that the democrats don't care what's in the healthcare bill as long as it passes...I'm sure some of them really don't, but I'm pretty sure the majority actually care. And if posting on the internet means I'm on the sidelines, then it doesn't bother me. My job as a citizen is to be critical of the government. I'll never, ever give anyone representing me a free pass, a leap of faith, the benefit of the doubt, or any other handicap.

Why is 15% too high? How much of that 15% chooses not to have health insurance? How many aren't here legally? As I said, I am one of those 15%, I certainly don't like being portrayed as helpless, or in some kind of dire situation. This is a republic, and everyone does have equal opportunity, but that doesn't mean everyone will achieve equal results. And lets say we agree that 15% is too high, why are we addressing the issue at a federal level? Why is everyone so set in making sure it's federal so there is no escape? We can't debate the merits of the current bill, for all we know it's the world's longest soup recipe. I'm glad the president said that Brown should be seated, that doesn't mean there isn't some 'splainin to do concerning respecting the country and campaign promises.

[matthew.manhorn]

But once again my numerous past commentary is vindicated and validated. Obama will not get a second term, he's the best thing to ever happen to the conservatives and independents, November will be a body slam for the Nationalists. The liberal socialist anti-Americans (BEDWETTERS) bottom feeders can go crawl on their hands and knees back in thier dark holes very soon. The real problem will be the lingering debt after all these morons depart office. O and yea the UE socialists can have him, our experiment will be over in 3 more years. Been there done that, checked the box, good bye brother man. The USA is not a Socialist country, thanks anyway keep that "overthere". America begins to awaken!

I'm only sad because I didn't place any large bets on this very predictable outcome and much more to follow.

The Honeymoon is now officailly over, Obama fail!

USA is pretty much socialist nowadays, whether Obama is president or not

[GlassHarp]

On the sniping issue...Representative Joe Wilson ring a bell? This nation is in crisis and there has been little or no Republican support for our President. There has never been a Republican plan. The only plan was to kill reform in Clinton's first term and ever since. To the richest of Republican supporters, health care for the majority in this nation is never going to be an important issue. (The news out of the Supreme Court today only makes this situation worse but that is a debate for another time).

I never said that politicians deserve our blind support (although I do believe Brown is a lightweight and can be expected to kowtow to the orthodox Republican line), I just believe that every politician has a responsibility to try to govern, not sit on the sidelines like the current Republicans are doing, waiting for Obama to fail. One thing you have to say about Teddy's record, (as evidenced by the comments at his wake) he was always willing to reach across the aisle to work with his opponents in the best interest of the nation. He was very liberal and very flawed as a human being, but he was a true American icon in the Senate.

Educate yourself.

http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Media/PDF/RepublicanAlternative3962_9.pdf

[IconOfEvi]

If you prefer Europe, their populations are collapsing. We assume that Scandinavia or elsewhere in Europe is the end state of a democratic state, but all the European countries populations are below replacement, with only replacement done by the immigrants.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QfVWU-2pVL4/SepSiCshCBI/AAAAAAAAFhg/Ew3y3mZ3u_I/s1600-h/UK%2BMuslim%2BRadical.jpg
See this man? This is who all your governments are hoping to pay for the pampered retiree class and benefits machine, that continues to swell like no tomorrow.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r233/LeChiffre1988/1465.jpg














Going back to Brown, on a side note, Brown made it official that his daughters are not dating anyone, thus open

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6997431.ece

Glenn Beck can stuff it, this man is a legend.

[Mastermind]

What makes me laugh over this is the absolute dismay...disillusionment...down right depression the Democrat party is fallen into. they have, except for this one little vote...a super majority...more than any Republican congress had except perhaps for one short time...and they now feel utterly defeated. Why?

Oh...I know...Because they can now NOT develop their uber-socialist plan for America they had been pursuing. Now they have to just govern responsibly...they can now not ignore 40 percent of the people in the United States of America...they can now not be the tyrants they wanted to be. Now, they have to participate in our system of democracy. And that fact utterly depresses them to no end...(I just loved the look on Nacy Pelosi's face when she finally announced she does not have the votes to cram this socialist program of forced heath care down (most)American citizens throats (her best union buds being exempt, of course)...she looked like she had just swallowed a fly...Hahhahhahhah!)

I can hardly wait for November...election day. The day after will be glorious for America and devastating for these Democrat socialist liberal freaks. The Democrat slaughter that took place in 1994 will be made to look like a ...uh...please pardon my phraseology...a Tea party...

[Arnie100]

Relax, dude...November hasn't happened yet!