PMCs in Chechnya?

[MEGR]

Soldiers for Hire (a special on the History Channel) quickly mentioned PMCs in Chechnya? Can anyone elaborate on this?

[UkrainianAmerican]

Slightly off-topic, but that was a really enlightening presentation.
I never knew how large a role was played by PMCs in angola.
And then I was amazed at how condescending the UN dude ( :fork: ) was about using the PMCs as peacekeepers, despite the fact the the Blue Berets couldnt even protect THEMSELVES, much less the civilian population.

[APOCALYPSE]

Hey I'm watching it also right now I heard pmc in Chechnya, do you think it's Russian PMC's or not

[UkrainianAmerican]

Hey I'm watching it also right now I heard pmc in Chechnya, do you think it's Russian PMC's or not
I heard of Permskii and other knowledgeable russinas on this board mention Kontrakniki-contractors, who are basically ex russian servicemen who get paid by rssian military/ministry of the interior to hunt down the terrorist scum. Or something like that.

[Argyll]

The idea of PMC's are their uses,is not just a USA thing,it's generic,there will be companies run worldwide,containing ex Soldiers,hell I'm willing to bet that even France has this type of Company/Agency!

The misconception is that everyone thinks that contractors are the "Gucci gang",when many PMC's provide other services,such as the EOD,K-9,R&D.....even the little lowly cook is classed as a contractor !

[Gordon]

another thing - PMC's have been around for decades, it's just recently they have come into the public eye.

[American Patriot]

A lot of mercenaries fought for Dudaev's army in Chechnya

[obd]

Hmm, but in Chechnya Argyl they are hired for direct combat so I believe the politically correct term of "PMC" doesnt apply as they are not hired by private companies but instead by the Ministry of Defense (essentially the military) to perform in a direct combat wartime role.......and directly take the role of the regular army soldiers........Just a thought Argyl so dont flame me please!!! Anyway, I believe that these "Kontraknika (sp)" are really just mercenaries out looking for money......In fact, I read an interview of a female sniper in Chechnya who was formerly an Olympic shooter or something like that and now did merc work in Chechnya to feed her kids............

Am I wrong to think that the term "PMC" applies only to people who work for private companies doing security work and not direct combat operations so that they are deliniated from mercs and regular forces?????

I dont know...I was under the impression that the term "PMC" was being used to differentiate the men in Iraq from the term "mercenary" , as its such a loaded term these days....Maybe Im wrong....maybe the term PMC wasnt meant to differentiate in the strict sense but just to "move away" from the word "mercenary" as the term tends to leave a bad taste in ones mouth in most of the world.........

[Argyll]

All you need to do is look up the definition of both,then see which one's apply to the relevant places ;)
Not everyone in a PMC is a "shooter" either ;)

[DE_Six]

There are many French PMCs. Never heard of Bob Denard? He led an insurrection on behalf of a Comorean rebel group in 1995, but the coup failed when Denard refused to order his men to open fire on French troops sent to counter the attempt.

Among the best known french PMCs, there's GEOS, Securance, Iris Services, Africa Security, etc.

Some large companies in this business are/were:

South African: Eben Barlow and Nick Van Den Bergh' s Executive Outcomes

British: Tim Spicer's Sandline International, Defense System Ltd, Gurkha Security, Saladin Security

American: MPRI, Dyncorp, Airscan, Blackwater, Vinnel Corp, Armor Holdings

Israeli: LevDan

[obd]

haha, well Argyll I wish it were so simple as to follow your suggestion...Unfortunately, the term "PMC" is relatively new in the sense of its "coming into fashion" in the mainstream...........

Based on what I understand a mercenary to be as defined by the Pentagon, the Chechen "Kontraktniki"(sp?) would qualify as mercs since they are irregular force volunteers being paid by the Ministry of Defense to take part in direct combat operations alongside and-or independent of uniformed and officially sanctioned combat soldiers.........

So I dont quite understand how a show such as the History Channel, which usually has great and accurate reporting, can call them "PMC's" in Chechnya other that for the simple reason that the producer felt that the term PMC was now the "term dejour" of the moment and could stand in for the term "mercenary".........because clearly they (Kontrakniki) are not "PMC's" as the term PMC is defined by the CPA which is currently one of the worlds largest users of PMC's heheheeheh.............

I think the more correct term for the "K's" would be mercenaries.......

Although there is a pretty big grey area between merc work and PMC work.............especially in Iraq...........

[Argyll]

Was the program any good?

I hope it gets repeated/aired in the UK when I'm back on leave in the 30th July

The term PMC is not so new,what's new is the attention being drawn to it by the media.

[obd]

Oh and DE6, Executive Outcomes was not a "Private Military Contractor".....It was a mercenary outfit....it supplied mercs to governments in Africa to fight wars and put down insurgencies or to help insurgencies.........Lets not forget Congo/Zaire and "MAd Mike" Hoare and his Katangan band of mercs at "5 Commando" or Colonel Jean Schramme (aka "Black Jack") the Belgian merc who led the coup d'etat against General Mobutu in 1967, lets not forget Biafra, Steiner and his 4th Commando, Angola, the FNLA, Rhodesia and the RLA, Denard and his 60 mercs in Benin, SWAPO and the SADF, Sierra Leon in 1995, the "white Legion" etc etc etc.......I hope some of these names, places, bring up memories for some of you heheheheheh.............

Anyways, all those corparates (that are still around anyways) I'm sure would love to have the term "mercenary" fall out of disuse and have the term "PMC" used to describe thier past actions........as it somehow whitewashes them......its cleanses them........

[MetalBoy]

Well the way it came across on the show EO did a buttload of good by saving a bunch of innocent people in Sierra Leone being massacred by roving gangs of pansies who got their jollies off by raping and hacking people with machetes. No matter what you think of those guys in Executive Outcomes, 300 soldiers bringing a force of 15,000 rebels/maniacs to is knees without takikng a single death seems like an amazing feet.

[Dennis G]

Was the program any good?

I hope it gets repeated/aired in the UK when I'm back on leave in the 30th July

The term PMC is not so new,what's new is the attention being drawn to it by the media.

it was good Argyll I think you would appreciate it, and stay safe mate.

[DE_Six]

Oh and DE6, Executive Outcomes was not a "Private Military Contractor".....It was a mercenary outfit....

Call' em what you like. "Private military contractor"...As in a company that fufills contracts of military nature. Who fullfills this role in most countries? The military, the army. Hence, private army. Mercenaries. PMC is the new term. French call them "Crisis Management Societies". You pick your favorite PC term. I kinda like PMC. :P

[UkrainianAmerican]

Well the way it came across on the show EO did a buttload of good by saving a bunch of innocent people in Sierra Leone being massacred by roving gangs of pansies who got their jollies off by raping and hacking people with machetes. No matter what you think of those guys in Executive Outcomes, 300 soldiers bringing a force of 15,000 rebels/maniacs to is knees without takikng a single death seems like an amazing feet.
Yeah, and when they just started out, a SIXTY-man team secured the oil refinery from 1500(!) rebels, without a casualty (a few wounded)
Pretty amazing stuff.


Also a good part was about how the media tried to portray EO as some white racist dudes killing poor innocent black people, when in reality 80 percent of its force were Black, working alongside whites.

[cqbrdy]

no matter where u go, idiots seem to always be there.

If a country is in a state of civil war, being taken over by rebels and or militia and the countries gov't cant retake control of it, they can hire civi's with prior military training to go in and take the place of their countries army and or even work with them to once again regain control of their country, just like what happened in freetown. that, to me, was the best way to show people what private military or security teams do for a country. EO went in there with under 100 soldiers and retook an oil facility run by 1500 rebels.

Noone should doubt what argyll is saying, he's there doing exactly what some of you morons are talking about. Yes, it is a very lucrative trade and yes some only do it for the money, the chance to kill people and so most companies runnig it, will find out quickly what your reason is to work for them.

some of you should really try and read up on a topic before talking about it.

OBD, you really need to think before you speak.
its better to be thought a fool
then to speak and remove all doubt.

[Royal]

British: Tim Spicer's Sandline International, Defense System Ltd, Gurkha Security, Saladin Security

Your list is somewhat dated and certainly doesn't include the 'Premier League' as far as reputable/effective organisations today.


Oh and DE6, Executive Outcomes was not a "Private Military Contractor".....It was a mercenary outfit....it supplied mercs to governments in Africa to fight wars and put down insurgencies or to help insurgencies

Both Sandline and EO have a few skeletons rattling in their closets, but to describe their work in Sierra Leone and Angola as "mercenary" is to descibe the current PMC's in Iraq the same way - they're doing the same things (training, Log security and support, Ops support, Tech support, Int collection). I'm sure you don't want your arse kicked for going down that road again.

[ibstolidude]

Oh and DE6, Executive Outcomes was not a "Private Military Contractor".....It was a mercenary outfit....it supplied mercs to governments in Africa to fight wars and put down insurgencies or to help insurgencies.........Lets not forget Congo/Zaire and "MAd Mike" Hoare and his Katangan band of mercs at "5 Commando" or Colonel Jean Schramme (aka "Black Jack") the Belgian merc who led the coup d'etat against General Mobutu in 1967, lets not forget Biafra, Steiner and his 4th Commando, Angola, the FNLA, Rhodesia and the RLA, Denard and his 60 mercs in Benin, SWAPO and the SADF, Sierra Leon in 1995, the "white Legion" etc etc etc.......I hope some of these names, places, bring up memories for some of you heheheheheh.............
- memories enough to know that the names you mentioned were not associated with EO.

[5jumpchump]

All i can say after watching that special was **** the UN . Tear it down , get rid of it and start over . That one PMC company spent 2 million dollars to protect the people , force the rebels back and HOLD the peace until the UN kicked them out . The ****ing UN spent 100 million over twice the amount of time it took them to **** things up , got 15 of it's lil boys in blue tourtured and mutillated , got the rebels back on track and since then hundreds of thousands of people died PER MONTH . And one more thing - F_U_C_K THE UN !!!!!!!

[StukaJr]

Here is the info I've found:


Contract soldiers serving today in Chechnya are recruited from two different sources. Some are conscript soldiers and sergeants who volunteer to continue fighting in Chechnya after their term of military service is over (there could be some pressure coming from the authorities to keep the best-trained troops from going home). Russian officers say that these young war veterans make good fighters. The other source of contract soldiers consists of volunteers recruited in different Russian provinces from the ranks of Russia`s vast pool of military reservists.

And don't hijack thread next time p-) Arrrrrrr!