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CaptMorgan68
01-23-2010, 05:02 PM
Anti-Capitalists and Capitalists
by J. R. Nyquist
Weekly Column Published: 1.22.2010

If you haven't scanned the cable news channels since the crash of 2008, you could be in for a shock. Except for FOX NEWS, you are going to hear an anti-capitalist message percolating up through your television. This isn't altogether new, but there is a new quantitative and qualitative edge to it. It is tailor-made for those who know very little, whose degrees and credentials were "earned" by studying for a test (which differs from studying an actual subject). The anti-capitalist dog has slipped its leash. Whereas, previously, it was allowed to walk and relieve itself on university campuses, it now advances through the tube into millions of homes.

In his classic work, The Anti-Capitalist Mentality, Ludwig von Mises explained that human beings tend to overrate their own worth. "If a man's station in life is conditioned by factors other than his inherent excellence," wrote Mises, "those who remain at the bottom of the ladder can acquiesce in this outcome and, knowing their own worth, still preserve their dignity and self-respect. But it is different if merit alone decides. Then the unsuccessful feel themselves insulted and humiliated. Hate and enmity against all those who superseded them must result."
How could a meritless genius console himself? Well, he could stay in school and become a professor of history or literature. He could specialize in subjects so insignificant that nobody would ever take notice of his work, or judge it. Through the beneficence of government financing of higher education, he might make a living comparable to that of a skilled laborer.

"In order to console himself and restore his self-assertion, such a man is always in search of a scapegoat," noted Mises. "He tries to persuade himself that he failed through no fault of his own. He is at least as brilliant, efficient and industrious as those who outshine him. Unfortunately this nefarious social order of ours does not accord the prizes to the most meritorious men; it crowns the dishonest and unscrupulous scoundrel, the swindler, the exploiter, the 'rugged individualist.' What made himself fail was his honesty."

The frustrated ambition of a would-be genius is thus engaged. While free market capitalism treats everyone according to his or her contribution to the well-being of others, the thwarted mediocrity can always blame the system. According to Mises, "They sublimate their hatred into a philosophy, the philosophy of anti-capitalism, in order to render inaudible the inner voice that tells them that their failure is entirely their own fault." They loathe capitalism because it has elevated people into positions they wanted to occupy. Mises wrote: "Such is the case with those people who are commonly called the intellectuals." Through its generous funding of education, through the elevation of bureaucrats in place of entrepreneurs, through the expansion of government services, the anti-capitalists have found their cause -- and a way to strike back. The evils of capitalism must be opposed. Thus, through incessant activism and whining, a system is built in support of failure (enabling the drug addict and the malingerer), offering management positions to those who would otherwise be running a small business into the ground.

In a financial crash, the excellent and the poor businessman perish together, but the unhampered entrepreneur finds his way and the economy quickly recovers . Only today, the government is pumping money into useless activities on every side. It is called "the stimulus package." One has to wonder, in a sophisticated society such as our own, why the capitalists fail to defend themselves. Why don't they defend the market system? After all, the market system made them rich and powerful. The answer to this question was provided, long ago, in a book by Joseph Schumpeter titled Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy.

According to Schumpeter, "Technological progress is increasingly becoming the business of teams of trained specialists who turn out what is required and make it work in predictable ways. The romance of earlier commercial adventure is rapidly wearing away, because so many more things can be strictly calculated that had of old to be visualized in a flash of genius." Thus, says Schumpeter, the entrepreneur will inevitably be replaced by managers and teams of experts. A man on a white horse, so to speak, is no longer required. Heroes are now replaced by celebrities. Genius is supplanted by advertising. We are told what is smart, while fewer and fewer observers can tell what really is smart. "Bureau and committee work tends to replace individual action," wrote Schumpeter. "Rationalized and specialized office work will eventually blot out personality...." The power to calculate blots out vision. Whereas, the economic and military relations of the Middle Ages were intensely personal; the economic and military relations of late modernity are suffused with bureaucratic rationality. The capitalist entrepreneur has been replaced with a bureaucratic manager, who has no real stake in defending the capitalist system. For even under socialism, he will still be a manager, possessing the credentials of a manager. The entire bourgeoisie, therefore, faces extinction. That way of life, which consists in owning a business, has become too precarious. Having built the economic base of our civilization, it is destroyed by the rationalization of the system itself.

Schumpeter summarized his thesis as follows: "Since capitalist enterprise, by its very achievements, tends to automate progress, we conclude that it tends to make itself superfluous -- to break to pieces under the pressure of its own success. The perfectly bureaucratized giant industrial unit not only ousts the small or medium-sized firm and 'expropriates' its owners, but in the end it also ousts the entrepreneur and expropriates the bourgeoisie as a class which in the process stands to lose not only its income but also what is infinitely more important, its function. The true pacemakers of socialism were not the intellectuals or agitators who preached it but the Vanderbilts, Carnegies and Rockefellers."

The socialists may not appreciate the irony of this, and the conspiracy theorists will have a field day; but Schumpeter's description of the overall process of transition from capitalism to socialism has proven accurate. What also occurs in this process is the destruction of our civilization's "protective strata" -- as Schumpeter calls it. Since we are all employees (and even the bosses are employees), the defense of private property in the means of production is not as keen or vigorous as it was in the past. The debate is now focused on government programs, government solutions (that is to say, bureaucratic solutions). The anti-capitalist mentality is not going to be checked, or driven back, as it once was. It is now permanently empowered and entrenched within our economic and political system. And it may be argued that the system itself has brought us to this state of affairs.

http://financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2010/0122.html

tluassa
01-24-2010, 10:35 AM
http://www.dertour-live.de/galerien/galerien/47/New%20York%20November%202006%20051.jpg

vs

http://www.luxemburg.diplo.de/__Zentrale_20Komponenten/Themenpakete/20__Jahre__Mauerfall/Bilder/1992-08-01_20Verfall_20in_20Altenburg,property=Galeriebild__gross.jpg

We have had that, Capitalism won.

MaNiC
01-24-2010, 10:58 AM
^ LOL, those Trabants just keep going, and going, and... ;-)

I've heard of people using vodka to power those things, LMFAO.

On-topic: The author of that column is biased IMO. Nobody is talking about constructing an "anti-capitalist" society, but everything needs some form of regulation and oversight. I also think that the recommendations that often come from the left are not born from some inner communist desire, but rather from good intentions to bring some sort of stability to the "boom and bust" cycle that we have grown accustom to over the decades.

If the federal government can impose bank reserve requirements, then I don't see why there can't be some common sense restrictions on over-the-counter derivatives and other obscure and often times illicit financial products and practices.

coltfan111
01-24-2010, 11:00 AM
I can be born poor and die rich if I desire it and work hard. That is good enough for me.

Byrdalak
01-24-2010, 11:51 AM
Americas strength is in the freedom of individuals to do business. The SU showed us a highly socialist system will not work. I think that the current crisis has shown us that capitalism without regulation will not either. I think the answer is in ones freedom to do business with ones neighbor without interference. A man born poor and made dependent on a system for life will always be poor. A man born poor who works hard can become rich, unless a system where he is forced to do that work for next to nothing exists.

deagle
01-24-2010, 02:58 PM
some slums /ghettos in capitalist are even worse than anywhere else in the world too.

MZKT
01-24-2010, 06:19 PM
http://www.dertour-live.de/galerien/galerien/47/New%20York%20November%202006%20051.jpg

vs

http://www.luxemburg.diplo.de/__Zentrale_20Komponenten/Themenpakete/20__Jahre__Mauerfall/Bilder/1992-08-01_20Verfall_20in_20Altenburg,property=Galeriebild__gross.jpg

We have had that, Capitalism won.

That's also capitalism
http://haititravel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/haiti-girls21.jpg

matthew.manhorn
01-25-2010, 09:09 AM
Capitalism is what causes the US government to be the friend of wallstreets, just look at the bailouts.

You can't follow 100% of a certain theory, whether it's capitalism or communism

HellToupee
01-25-2010, 02:26 PM
Think wallstreet has influence now, in the days before central bank it was the reverse with wall street bailing out the government.

Yehuda
01-25-2010, 02:30 PM
its not black or white,you can move also in the gray
the best system,for me,its something akin to the european social democracy,giving economic freedom,but also,not forgetting the basic human need,such as health,education,old age pensions,etc

Yeti2424
01-25-2010, 07:43 PM
its not black or white,you can move also in the gray
the best system,for me,its something akin to the european social democracy,giving economic freedom,but also,not forgetting the basic human need,such as health,education,old age pensions,etc

If that were true then medicare,medicaid, and social security wouldnt be running a deficit and private schools wouldnt have a higher graduation rate then public schools while using less funds per student.

thesarge
01-25-2010, 09:53 PM
some slums /ghettos in capitalist are even worse than anywhere else in the world too.

You're kidding right? You really haven't traveled much have you.

owner_bsp
01-26-2010, 09:54 AM
For small kids perhaps, but for all others no effect. These individuals also called smokers probably think theyll die either way, even if they quit smoking altogether. Thats mostly the reason they dont care at all about anti-smoking adverts.

Lau
01-26-2010, 01:04 PM
That's also capitalism
http://haititravel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/haiti-girls21.jpg

Well said.

shoora
01-26-2010, 05:36 PM
106420
Theater in Detroit is also capitalism.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03/schools-out-forever-in-detroit.php
It's life - nobody and nothing is perfect.

HellToupee
01-26-2010, 05:51 PM
You're kidding right? You really haven't traveled much have you.

What you think every capitalist country and everyone in them is well off?

XShipRider
01-26-2010, 06:16 PM
You didn't hear people complaining when their IRAs were gaining 10-20% per annum. Greed knew no bounds as people clamored for huge loans they could not afford to buy crap they didn't need. But I guess it didn't matter because it was fueling what turned out to be a false economic boom. You certainly hear them now though. And who do they blame? Wall Street. Yeah.

People need to relearn long term growth strategy. This alone would rein in some of the excesses we experienced because capital would be less available.

Mr.K
01-26-2010, 06:21 PM
You didn't hear people complaining when their IRAs were gaining 10-20% per annum. Greed knew no bounds as people clamored for huge loans they could not afford to buy crap they didn't need. But I guess it didn't matter because it was fueling what turned out to be a false economic boom. You certainly hear them now though. And who do they blame? Wall Street. Yeah.

People need to relearn long term growth strategy. This alone would rein in some of the excesses we experienced because capital would be less available.

You're denouncing greed and consumerism (omnipresent in capitalism) and stupidity not capitalism itself. :) I am more or less satisfied with the capitalist system, yet I don't buy **** that i don't need, and don't try to look "rich" by maxing out my credit limits.

I also don't beleive in the only right way to manage things, some countries lean towards socialism and they manage to do a great job.


If people learned the long term growth strategy, buisnesses like apple or starbucks would have a slower growth.
You don't get rich quick by telling people to buy things that they need, that can afford, and that appreciate in value with time.

XShipRider
01-26-2010, 06:39 PM
You're right. I am not denouncing capitalism by any means. Free market capitalism works. It offer efficiencies which cannot be realized in any other system.

As for capitalists - I just abhor those who wonder how they're losing their slice of the pie when they blew the opportunity to earn wealth the old fashioned way -- time.

HellToupee
01-26-2010, 07:01 PM
Truely free market capitalism does not work all that well, it requires regulation and policing to ensure competition and stability. All systems work, under certian conditions.

thesarge
01-27-2010, 01:54 AM
What you think every capitalist country and everyone in them is well off?


Define "well off". That's a pretty subjective, relative term.

I've seen what poverty looks like in America and I've seen poverty in 38 different countries. Poverty in America doesn't compare in the least to the "real" poverty i've seen.

I know people that live under the so called poverty line here that have cars, tvs, decent clothes, and eat on a regular basis. That's not what I call poverty.

skyrock
01-27-2010, 02:57 AM
The first world and the third world in Detroit -- capitalism in its finest form.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/695/detroitghetto2765618.jpg

Jaeger07
01-27-2010, 03:08 AM
Social democracy: Best of both worlds ;-)

Chiptox
01-27-2010, 03:25 AM
Truely free market capitalism does not work all that well, it requires regulation and policing to ensure competition and stability. All systems work, under certian conditions.
It depends on what you consider a "free market". Some consider anarcho-capitalism to be the ultimate goal of a free market economy where the dollar rules all with out respect to law, rights, or other considerations. Others would consider a system where the government only interferes in the private marketplace to secure the liberties of the people (the consumers) and to ensure fair and competitive business practices to be the "free market". A market ruled by bullies and thugs is not a "free" market.

Regardless, neither version of free marketing would endorse a command economy or a lesser government manipulated model to be their cup-o'-tea.

HellToupee
01-27-2010, 04:09 AM
It depends on what you consider a "free market". Some consider anarcho-capitalism to be the ultimate goal of a free market economy where the dollar rules all with out respect to law, rights, or other considerations. Others would consider a system where the government only interferes in the private marketplace to secure the liberties of the people (the consumers) and to ensure fair and competitive business practices to be the "free market". A market ruled by bullies and thugs is not a "free" market.

Regardless, neither version of free marketing would endorse a command economy or a lesser government manipulated model to be their cup-o'-tea.

I would one of those that consider the anarcho-capitalism to be the free-market, free market to me does not mean fair market. As it is without rules theres always going to be someone/group that rises the top and essentially rules.

My cup o tea is mixed model best of both worlds :)

Switek
01-27-2010, 04:52 AM
Capitalistsm vs Anti-Capitalistsm ?????

It's the same comparison like fresh air vs not fresh air, water vs no water etc. There's no alternative for capitalism (the secondary matter is if all understand the same by saying it). The key is quality of other institutions which can assure protection of laws of individuals. The main axis of conflict is an will remain a distribution of wealth as an effect of individual talents and work. The key is how laws and educational system help people to get rich themselves. People are a bunch of egoists but it works constructively only in capitalism.

If you expect growth, innovation and progress forget about equality. If you expect equality forget about quick development and technological changes. Individual perspective is wrong. The mass benefits are key. Poverty in 2010 is not the same like in 1910.From my perspective (quite narrow because concerns only one country) poverty is only partially a matter of heritage, mostly is a chosen lifestyle.

wotsnext
01-27-2010, 05:06 AM
The first world and the third world in Detroit -- capitalism in its finest form.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/695/detroitghetto2765618.jpg

Wow!..Is that for real?

owner_bsp
01-27-2010, 08:21 AM
Hi,Could you tell me if there is some open source anti-virus client available for Symbian? I know theres freeware around but none of them seem to have any code. Also are there any open source libraries implementing anti-viruses.Thanks and regards,Abhik Ray.

Mackie
01-27-2010, 08:45 AM
If that were true then medicare,medicaid, and social security wouldnt be running a deficit and private schools wouldnt have a higher graduation rate then public schools while using less funds per student.

The public sector in the US. There are far better examples in the world.

thesarge
01-27-2010, 09:19 AM
Wow!..Is that for real?

Nice picture. Gee, are those Palm trees I see there? Can't say as I remember seeing palm trees in Detroit. Especially since it freezes there and well, palm trees tend to die when exposed to extreme cold.

Lau
01-27-2010, 11:54 AM
Social democracy: Best of both worlds ;-)

To a certain point I agree with you. Alltho' I'm a bit more liberal than most Social Democrats. But a Scandinavian social democrat would be considered a hardcore commie in the US, I'm pretty sure I would, and as stated, I'm not even a social democrat. ;)

skyrock
01-27-2010, 12:11 PM
Never mind those slums, just go and see the downtown Detroit with your own eyes. What a nice view from the top of the David Whitney Building. Those buildings could have been even more magnificent if they had full glass in the windows.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2701/dsc01819y.jpg


Wow!..Is that for real?

Atlantic Friend
01-27-2010, 12:17 PM
Free Capitalism isn't free - hence a number of laws and rules, be that anti-trust legislation, SEC rules about using insider info, state-given bailouts when the whiz kids finally break the bank, etc. And then you have social imperatives, the ones that are enforced in first-world countries but lack badly in our third-world manpower reservoirs.

Yeti2424
01-27-2010, 01:03 PM
Wow!..Is that for real?

No it's a picture of Makati in the Philippines.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/architecture/detroit.asp

skyrock
01-27-2010, 10:41 PM
Bob: These are from Detroit.
Mike: Are you anti-capitalism?
Bob: ???

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/788/slumdetroitf.jpghttp://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9038/bronx20ghetto.jpghttp://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2058/decay.jpghttp://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9675/detroit27s20ghetto23.jpghttp://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6143/detroit27s20ghetto08.jpg

Mr.K
01-27-2010, 10:45 PM
For F sake, can we stop the shabby buildings contest?
Capitalism : no social net if you fall, but a small chance and high risk of making it big
socialism: social net if you fall, expect to have a good part of your fruits of labor going to the creation of that social net, even if you will never use it.

Hollis said it, there is no only right way. You have to adjust policy depending of what's going on.


Social democracy is going down the toilet, because you have more and more people that need those social services, while the number of the young working people is shrinking.

Hollis
01-27-2010, 11:01 PM
I am beginning to wonder if people actually knows what capitalism is, or what is the capital market. A hint, look up venture capitalist.

Flagg
01-27-2010, 11:06 PM
I am beginning to wonder if people actually knows what capitalism is, or what is the capital market. A hint, look up venture capitalist.

Agreed...unfortunately some of the commetns I've been hearing lately in the real world are verbal equivalents of people wearing Che Shirts.......but don't actually know a single thing about Che..........now please excuse me as I go bang my head against a wall to forget those things I heard :)

Chiptox
01-27-2010, 11:58 PM
Agreed...unfortunately some of the commetns I've been hearing lately in the real world are verbal equivalents of people wearing Che Shirts.......but don't actually know a single thing about Che..........now please excuse me as I go bang my head against a wall to forget those things I heard :)
Something along the lines of "capitalism caused the recession. it's time to abandon it and try something else." perhaps?

I've heard that one a couple times. It makes my spleen ache.

CPL Trevoga
01-28-2010, 01:20 AM
What people call Capitalism, is actually a pyramid scam. A few on top get the all the resources, enjoying fruits of labor ones on the bottom, but as long as the schmucks on the bottom buy into idea that they have a chance to get to the top of the pyramid and a few crumbs fall to the bottom, the system will stay and work. It's a soul of judeo christian belief system. Labor and slave in this life and when you die, the Paradise awaits you.

Chiptox
01-28-2010, 01:46 AM
Yeah, something like that.

Mr.K
01-28-2010, 11:00 AM
What people call Capitalism, is actually a pyramid scam. A few on top get the all the resources, enjoying fruits of labor ones on the bottom, but as long as the schmucks on the bottom buy into idea that they have a chance to get to the top of the pyramid and a few crumbs fall to the bottom, the system will stay and work. It's a soul of judeo christian belief system. Labor and slave in this life and when you die, the Paradise awaits you.


You forgot to mention giving money to your local religious instituiton in order to be "SAVED". ÈD

tluassa
01-28-2010, 12:59 PM
The initial thread was "Capitalism" vs "Communism" and still I say that there is substancial evidence that suggests Capitalism is superior to Communism. That does not mean that a "social market Economy" of a "European" type isnt superior to both :) !

Still, The only states left that still "use" Communism are Cuba and North Korea (Venezuela has just introduced it and is instantly going down the drain as we just see) Posting pictures of slums in Africa and blaming "Capitalism" for that misery is a funny sign of reality neglection.
These countries were mostly Colonies until quite recently if we view the historic perspective. Of course introducing a free market doesnt "save" a country alone or turn it into a paradise instantly ! That requires decades and in the case of many African countries may take a century.

Still, 120 years ago Europe was the same social bomb we have now in Africa, too much Population growth and not enough work ... poverty, corruption, misery, disease ... As if we did not have that in Europe too for centuries. And initially when it started and gained pace, the Industrialisation even worsened the problem until a growing wealth allowed for introductions of things like "rent" and "insurance" that enabled People to have less children and still provide for the time when they were old. Until that happens in Africa, there will be no economic model to suit a population growth of the kind we see there and in other "developing countries".

/edit:
PS: I found a quite interesting vid of a Stanford Prof. explaining his views, its quite general and of course doesnt exactly deal with "Communism" vs "Capitalism" but represents at least parts of my views. And that means intelligent "rule" implementation is the main issue of all governments around the World.

http://www.videosift.com/video/TED-Charter-Cities-Paul-Romer-s-radical-idea

shoora
01-28-2010, 01:39 PM
Still, The only states left that still "use" Communism are Cuba and North Korea (Venezuela has just introduced it and is instantly going down the drain as we just see) Posting pictures of slums in Africa and blaming "Capitalism" for that misery is a funny sign of reality neglection."] ("http://www.videosift.com/video/TED-Charter-Cities-Paul-Romer-s-radical-idea[/url)
Economic prosperity in modern world depend on international trade and free access to reach markets. Communist China enjoys virtually free access to US market, and North Korea "enjoys" virtual blocade. Same political system, but so much difference in wealth! Same story with capicalism, european socialism and asian dictatorships.
Political system is one thing and economics is another. They are influencing each other. But, nevertheless, this is not the same.
Somebody just tricked as to believe in simple schema.

RamQan
01-28-2010, 04:39 PM
You people have obviously not been taking your daily dose of Stossel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QmAzEsrtyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VHiONkot8&feature=related

Watch, learn, spread the gospel of Stossel. Build a church in his honour in your own town (if your town already have a Stossel church, build another one).

Join a virtual church
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2207376783

Bottom line is you shouldn't forget you daily dose of Stossel and neither should your neighbours.

AIRASSAULT7
01-28-2010, 05:09 PM
how can america call it shelf capitalist if it has a central banking system(government private monopoly) that control money supplies

i like how people blame capitalism when capitalism wasnt given its chance to fix the recession and the goverment programs for bringing the economy back will never work just like they didnt work in the great depression