Athiest Group Blasts USPS for Mother Teresa Stamp

[SBL]

An atheist organization is blasting the U.S. Postal Service for its plan to honor Mother Teresa with a commemorative stamp, saying it violates postal regulations against honoring "individuals whose principal achievements are associated with religious undertakings."
The Freedom from Religion Foundation is urging its supporters to boycott the stamp — and also to engage in a letter-writing campaign to spread the word about what it calls the "darker side" of Mother Teresa.
The stamp — set to be released on Aug. 26, which would have been Mother Teresa's 100th birthday — will recognize the 1979 Nobel Peace Prize winner for her humanitarian work, the Postal Service announced last month.
"Noted for her compassion toward the poor and suffering, Mother Teresa, a diminutive Roman Catholic nun and honorary U.S. citizen, served the sick and destitute of India and the world for nearly 50 years," the Postal Service said in a press release. "Her humility and compassion, as well as her respect for the innate worth and dignity of humankind, inspired people of all ages and backgrounds to work on behalf of the world’s poorest populations."
But Freedom from Religion Foundation spokeswoman Annie Laurie Gaylor says issuing the stamp runs against Postal Service regulations.

"Mother Teresa is principally known as a religious figure who ran a religious institution. You can't really separate her being a nun and being a Roman Catholic from everything she did," Gaylor told FoxNews.com.
Postal Service spokesman Roy Betts expressed surprise at the protest, given the long list of previous honorees with strong religious backgrounds, including Malcolm X, the former chief spokesman for the Nation of Islam, and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., a Baptist minister and co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
"In fact we honored Father Flanagan in 1986 for his humanitarian work. This has nothing to do with religion or faith," Betts told FoxNews.com.
Click here to see other controversial U.S. stamps. (http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010/01/28/controversial-postage-stamps)
Gaylor said the atheist group opposed Father Flanagan's stamp but not those for King and Malcolm X, because she said they were known for their civil rights activities, not for their religion.
Martin Luther King "just happened to be a minister," and "Malcolm X was not principally known for being a religious figure," she said.
"And he's not called Father Malcolm X like Mother Teresa. I mean, even her name is a Roman Catholic honorific."
Gaylor said Mother Teresa infused Catholicism into her secular honors — including an "anti-abortion rant" during her Nobel Prize acceptance speech — and that even her humanitarian work was controversial.
"There was criticism by the end of her life that she turned what was a tiny charity into an extremely wealthy charity that had the means to provide better care than it did," Gaylor said. "...There's this knee jerk response that everything she did was humanitarian, and I think many people would differ that what she was doing was to promote religion, and what she wanted to do was baptize people before they die, and that doesn't have a secular purpose for a stamp."
But the Postal Service said the commemorative stamp has nothing to do with Mother Teresa's religion.
"Mother Teresa is not being honored because of her religion, she's being honored for her work with the poor and her acts of humanitarian relief," Betts told FoxNews.com.
"Her contribution to the world as a humanitarian speaks for itself and is unprecedented," he added.
Some atheists, too, spoke out against the group's objections, including Bruce Sheiman, author of "An Atheist Defends Religion." He said the Freedom from Religion Foundation is being "hypocritical" and really "stepping over the line."
"Clearly there are a number of things that you can point to and say it's religious and a number of things you can point to and say that it's areligious," Sheiman told FoxNews.com. "So it really doesn't make sense to protest it."
He said the Foundation's campaign stems from concern that the abundance of humanitarian work done by believers will overshadow that done by atheists.
"Like billboards and bus ads, this is just part of the whole campaign that they're doing to make non-belief more visible," he said.
Gaylor said the foundation's only concern is the "other things that deserve to be commemorated but are not because the people behind it didn't have the power of the Catholic church."
"It's enormously difficult to get them," she said, referring to commemorative stamps, "and people have huge campaigns, and to me this speaks of the power of the Roman Catholic Church in hierarchy.
"They want to make her a saint and this is part of the PR machine."
The Foundation is encouraging its supporters to purchase the new stamp honoring the late actress Katharine Hepburn, who was an atheist, instead — or any of the other 2010 stamps, which include cartoonist Bill Mauldin, singer Kate Smith, filmmaker Oscar Micheaux, painter Winslow Homer and poet Julia de Burgos.
Betts said that despite the Foundation's accusations and letter-writing campaign, "The response to Mother Teresa has been overwhelmingly in favor of this stamp."
He said the Mother Teresa stamp, like other stamp subjects, will "stand the test of time, reflect the cultural diversity of our nation and have broad national appeal."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584165,00.html

[GiladS]

And I thought here principal achievements were associated with her humanitarian activity...

[Imp]

And I thought here principal achievements were associated with her humanitarian activity...

X2.


The Freedom from Religion Foundation is urging its supporters to boycott the stamp — and also to engage in a letter-writing campaign to spread the word about what it calls the "darker side" of Mother Teresa.

Yeah, good luck with your Mother Teresa demonization campaign, f**kwits.

[b33f]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM_utctM2ig

But seriously, real Atheists just don't give a sheet.

[SBL]

But seriously, real Atheists just don't give a sheet.
So does that make these guys infidels or heretics? :lol:

[b33f]

So does that make these guys infidels or heretics? :lol:
I don't give a sheet ;)

[Zoomie]

The Freedom from Religion Foundation is urging its supporters to boycott the stamp — and also to engage in a letter-writing campaign to spread the word about what it calls the "darker side" of Mother Teresa.
The stamp — set to be released on Aug. 26, which would have been Mother Teresa's 100th birthday — will recognize the 1979 Nobel Peace Prize winner for her humanitarian work, the Postal Service announced last month.How ironic would it be if they used this particular stamp for their letter campaign.

[Carib]

All these aethists can go to Hell... oh, wait

[seraosha]

All these aethists can go to Hell... oh, wait

LOL, oh man I actually had something to add but that wins.

Oh yeah, this---->
...Martin Luther King "just happened to be a minister,"...
The double standard here is really kind of funny...talk about trying to cherry-pick.

[Ordie]

An atheist organization is blasting the U.S. Postal Service for its plan to honor Mother Teresa with a commemorative stamp, saying it violates postal regulations against honoring "individuals whose principal achievements are associated with religious undertakings."


If this is the case then we should discontinue Christmas Stamps, Chinese New Years Stamps, St. Valentines Day Stamps, Eids Stamps, Hannuakh Stamps, and stamps honoring Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

[kool_kruiser]

a new day and a new set of wackos just itching to be a pain in the ass........should there be some darwanian laws to take these people out of the gene pool????

[msnger]

If this is the case then we should discontinue Christmas Stamps, Chinese New Years Stamps, St. Valentines Day Stamps, Eids Stamps, Hannuakh Stamps, and stamps honoring Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Please do. However it doesn't matte rto me until they put Jesus or The Pope etc.

[sepheronx]

Please do.

and the point would be....?

I guess the concept of "No harm, no foul", is no longer viable.

[Zoomie]

Please do. However it doesn't matte rto me until they put Jesus or The Pope etc.

LOL. Clearly you've never been to to the post office in your life, or bought stamps before.

[msnger]

LOL. Clearly you've never been to to the post office in your life, or bought stamps before.


your right :(

[skyeye]

Interesting how The Freedom from Religion Foundation has such religious zeal.

[kamaz]

You guys may want to rethink your pre-conceived ideas about Agnes Bojaxiu of Albania and her 'good' deeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60

and this atheist group makes a valid point.

[kamaz]

Interesting how The Freedom from Religion Foundation has such religious zeal.

theres nothing religious about maintaining a valid separation of Church and State, its in our Constitution, remember?

[Rilence]

It's just a fvcking stamp.

[Policía Loco]

Who even uses stamps anymore???

[Marshall_Nord]

But seriously, real Atheists just don't give a sheet.

X2


Interesting how The Freedom from Religion Foundation has such religious zeal.

X2

If you try too hard to be an atheist, you're just a zealot!

[Sierra10]

I'm an atheist but this is ridiculous.

[Laconian]

theres nothing religious about maintaining a valid separation of Church and State, its in our Constitution, remember?

Go ahead and show me where in the US Constitution it calls for a separation of church and state. Hint: It doesn't.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Now explain where the making of a stamp honoring a Nobel Peace Prize winner and Roman Catholic nun and selling of same is in any way a violation of this amendment. They're offended by the stamp. I'm offended they breathe; let's call it even.

[skyeye]

@ kamaz

I'm an atheist too. But I recognize and appreciate that it's the Judo-Christian history that has made America and the West the bulwark of freedom and prosperity in the world. Judo-Christian philosophy is the foundation of everything we stand for, including the right to be an atheist.

And like the Laconian pointed out, the Constitution only prohibits the ESTABLISHMENT of a religion by government. Nor does it prohibit "the free exercise thereof" as you wish to do. The stamp of Mother Teresa comes under that quaint concept of "freedom of speech".

[themacedonian]

Western countries give more rights to fringe groups than society as a whole. Many laws are influenced by minorities.

[gaijinsamurai]

First PETA attacks Groundhog Day and now an Athiest organization gets all bothered over a stamp. The fringe are really acting like fringe lately.


I'm an agnostic, by the way.

[Sootan]

Interesting how The Freedom from Religion Foundation has such religious zeal.

Radical/fanatical atheist... Is that an oxymoron? :lol:

[armored_diplomacy]

But seriously, real Atheists just don't give a sheet.


It's just a fvcking stamp.


I'm an atheist but this is ridiculous.


+ 1

Bored people ...

[dttk0009]

I vouch for putting Vlad the impaler on a stamp.

[seraosha]

You guys may want to rethink your pre-conceived ideas about Agnes Bojaxiu of Albania and her 'good' deeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60

and this atheist group makes a valid point.

Oh right...a link to a film by Christopher Hitchens ...whose most recent book is "God is not great: How religion poisons everything".
Sure pal, whatever you say. :roll: No agenda there.

And link me to "seperation of church and state" in our Constitution...you can't, because if you took the time to pull your head out of your ass and actually read it, you would know that.
What you athiests really mean is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"...so unless you and those morons really mean is that we are now worshiping stamps, and it's the official state religion, you kind of need to read more and post less.

[Clockwinder]

Gee - a boycott on the stamp - that'll show 'em!!

[La8pv]

Gee - a boycott on the stamp - that'll show 'em!!

Opposed to religious people, atheists usually don't go shooting people when they disagree, so a boycott isn't a dumb idea.
They have achieved a discussion on mother theresa and her accomplishments. Now I couldn't care less if they were to have a stamp with the pope, but there is plenty of information out there which shows she wasn't the all lovin' cosy old lady she has been portrayed as.

[dttk0009]

Oh right...a link to a film by Christopher Hitchens ...whose most recent book is "God is not great: How religion poisons everything".
Sure pal, whatever you say. :roll: No agenda there.

And link me to "seperation of church and state" in our Constitution...you can't, because if you took the time to pull your head out of your ass and actually read it, you would know that.
What you athiests really mean is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"...so unless you and those morons really mean is that we are now worshiping stamps, and it's the official state religion, you kind of need to read more and post less.
So because he's a staunch Atheist and dislikes religion his points are invalid? Who cares if they're biased. He's not trying to point out his opinion, but rather presents evidence and sources on why Agnes is falsely idolized. How is that not a legitimate argument? It's not like he's making any **** up. Unless you can counter anything in that video with sources of your own your response isn't anything but an ad-hominem.

[SoftLion]

theres nothing religious about maintaining a valid separation of Church and State, its in our Constitution, remember?

I bet you love the fact that the 10 commandments adorn the Supreme Court.

Also, everything Laconian said.

[Johnny_H02]

I think the idea that Mother Theresa on a stamp being offensive to some isn't so much that its a religious symbol or a saint rather its the fact that Mother Theresa is a con-job and as well as she intended she could have probably done allot better if she wasn't preparing the poor and sick of the earth for the 'life hereafter' and maybe concentrated on feeding, clothing and educating those living at the time.

If any of you think that letting the sick and poor die so they can go on to heaven is a good idea or a good thing then have at it but I would 'pray' that I never ended up at your mercy should I ever be in a spot of bother. The Christopher Hitchens linked documentary isn't about Religion its about what Mother Theresa did and more precisely didn't do. It's obvious that the Vatican even recognizes Hitchens as a powerful mind as they asked him to be the devils advocate when Mother Theresa was to be cannonized.

If you want to write off Hitchens because hes an Atheist its the same as me writing off people because they are practicing or casual Christians (which I don't).

As for the stamp, not my country not my stamp I could care less.

[SoftLion]

I think the idea that Mother Theresa on a stamp being offensive to some isn't so much that its a religious symbol or a saint rather its the fact that Mother Theresa is a con-job and as well as she intended she could have probably done allot better if she wasn't preparing the poor and sick of the earth for the 'life hereafter' and maybe concentrated on feeding, clothing and educating those living at the time.

If any of you think that letting the sick and poor die so they can go on to heaven is a good idea or a good thing then have at it but I would 'pray' that I never ended up at your mercy should I ever be in a spot of bother. The Christopher Hitchens linked documentary isn't about Religion its about what Mother Theresa did and more precisely didn't do. It's obvious that the Vatican even recognizes Hitchens as a powerful mind as they asked him to be the devils advocate when Mother Theresa was to be cannonized.

If you want to write off Hitchens because hes an Atheist its the same as me writing off people because they are practicing or casual Christians (which I don't).

As for the stamp, not my country not my stamp I could care less.

If you think Mother Theresa is a con-job, your blood should be boiling about Santa Claus. That mother****er has been on numerous stamps and has conned millions of families into spending billions of dollars on **** their kids don't need.

[Atlantic Friend]

- Have you seen "Gaylor says no"?
- No.

Sorry, a The Office Reference seemed appropriate given the sheer level of grotesque. ;)

How can they ever attain Freedom From Religion if they are unable to see the person beyond a priest's robe or a reverend's collar themselves?

[Johnny_H02]

If you think Mother Theresa is a con-job, your blood should be boiling about Santa Claus. That mother****er has been on numerous stamps and has conned millions of families into spending billions of dollars on **** their kids don't need.
Hey look like I said the stamp means nothing to me it has nothing to do with my countries postal system and if Canada post put her on a stamp then thats their decision. I absolutely HATE this sh*t where every little group thinks exceptions should be made and special permissions granted to them much to the dismay of everyone else it happens to be one particular "Atheist" group this time usually its some I.D. fundi Christians or Muslims everyone takes their turn saying "WHAT ABOUT MY FEELINGS" and my answer to all of them is STFU this atheist group included.

If one doesn't like the stamp than don't bloody use it I'm sure that all U.S. stamps won't be cannonized with the saint's image. If it is than so be it.
As for the acceptance of the con-job no one really would take anyone seriously who droned on about Santa-Claus being a man of good works, no one would actually accredit him with having the worlds longest running but very selective and discriminatory charity because no one in their right mind takes him seriously.

There are people who honestly bought the BS surrounding Mother Theresa and have no idea that she was a vassal to get millions of dollars into the Vatican only a fraction of which actually went to the poor through means of convents and hospices where people went to die so that they can enjoy life ever after. I'm through here, I just think people should see past the smoke-screen when it comes to people who are dubbed 'holy' and made a 'saint'.
That has everything to do with honesty and integrity and nothing to do with which ever religion is propagating it.

[oldsoak]

Real atheists dont give a damn about the portrayal of religious figures. It is someone elses belief system, and they dont believe. A thumb print from a chimp would elicit as much interest from them - a "Yeah, whatever" response.

They could choose to see it as commemorating the good she did as a humanist rather than as a religious leader or just ignore it as a picture on a stamp. Or if they were particularly spiteful, have it stamped very hard.
( Years ago in colonial Ireland, republican publicans often had the symbol of the British crown inlaid on the doorstep so they could wipe their feet on it entering and leaving the premises. Stamps with the monarchs head were often applied upside down and stamped in such a way as to defigure the face of the monarch ).

[Snoshi]

I think Johnny puts it in the best way.. I personaly hate "Mother Theresa" because she is a fraud...

[Johnny_H02]

I don't 'hate' anyone and I really don't hate Mother Theresa I just think allot of good people buy all too quickly into the hype and when asked to see past it are inclined to think their religion is being attacked.

Like Oldsoak said, the stamp is meaningless to me and it would be just as meaningless if it were a Canada Post stamp I'd still use it and I'd pay it very little attention. I might add that my Canadian stamps have HM Queen Elizabeth II (Gift from the Monarchist League of Canada) and I'd not have to use them in the first place though even if I did my personal objections aside I wouldn't care nor would I make a fuss over it.

[Gleipnir]

More over-reaction in the land of the free

[Hollis]

There are all kinds of atheists same with religious people. Some how when humans are involved there are going to be some whack jobs involved. This is just petty BS. Same sort of narcissistic BS we get from those people who believe their way is the only way to be. Now if we can get rid of all humans, maybe we might find utopia.

[kamaz]

I think the idea that Mother Theresa on a stamp being offensive to some isn't so much that its a religious symbol or a saint rather its the fact that Mother Theresa is a con-job and as well as she intended she could have probably done allot better if she wasn't preparing the poor and sick of the earth for the 'life hereafter' and maybe concentrated on feeding, clothing and educating those living at the time.


exactly, Agnes declared that the most terrible calamity in the world today is the use of condoms, because that goes against God's plan. Its not the child raping priests, or the fundamentalist-driven jihads and wars all over the world (many justified by holy books), its condoms. Contraception was in her view the worst of all things in this world.

And Hitchens nails it exactly regarding her, he says 'She wasnt a friend to the poor, she was a friend of poverty'. This is the person the post office is honoring. Despicable.

regarding 'separation of church and state' not being in the Constitution. It actually is in Constitution, but phrased differently. http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/a/phrase.htm

The Godless Constitution

The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference.

The Declaration of Independence is seen as that document that established the new nation of the United States. It was written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776. It was signed by the Continental Congress and sent to King George III of England. It is a very eloquent document that is celebrated every July 4, but it is not the law of the land. It is a statement of sentiments directed to King George III in reaction to unfair taxation. The U.S. Constitution was ratified on March 4, 1789 -- thirteen years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration of Independence refers to "the Creator:"

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document; it is not the U.S. Constitution. Foes of the principle of separation of church and state often refer to the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence as proof that the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended for the United States to be ruled by a soveriegn being. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United States Constitution was written and ratified by elected officials representing a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians who were deeply concerned about entanglements between religion and government.


From Legacy Of Freedom by Rob Boston, Church and State, January, 2003. "Jefferson, Madison And The Nation's Founders Left Us Church-State Separation. Can We Keep It?"

What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Amer*icans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Consti*tution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian. The Religious Right's constant appeals to documents like the Declaration of Independence, which contains a deistic reference to "the Creator," cloud the issue and make some people believe their rights spring from these other documents.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

[kamaz]

There are people who honestly bought the BS surrounding Mother Theresa and have no idea that she was a vassal to get millions of dollars into the Vatican only a fraction of which actually went to the poor through means of convents and hospices where people went to die so that they can enjoy life ever after. I'm through here, I just think people should see past the smoke-screen when it comes to people who are dubbed 'holy' and made a 'saint'.
That has everything to do with honesty and integrity and nothing to do with which ever religion is propagating it.


very well said.

[seraosha]

I'll give more weight to the godless's arguments when they no longer use US currency.

[Laconian]

exactly, Agnes declared that the most terrible calamity in the world today is the use of condoms, because that goes against God's plan. Its not the child raping priests, or the fundamentalist-driven jihads and wars all over the world (many justified by holy books), its condoms. Contraception was in her view the worst of all things in this world.

And Hitchens nails it exactly regarding her, he says 'She wasnt a friend to the poor, she was a friend of poverty'. This is the person the post office is honoring. Despicable.

regarding 'separation of church and state' not being in the Constitution. It actually is in Constitution, but phrased differently. http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatemyths/a/phrase.htm

The Godless Constitution

The word "God" does not appear within the text of the Constitution of the United States. After spending three-and-a-half months debating and negotiating about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a constitution that is secular. The U.S. Constitution is often confused with the Declaration of Independence, and it's important to understand the difference.

The Declaration of Independence is seen as that document that established the new nation of the United States. It was written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776. It was signed by the Continental Congress and sent to King George III of England. It is a very eloquent document that is celebrated every July 4, but it is not the law of the land. It is a statement of sentiments directed to King George III in reaction to unfair taxation. The U.S. Constitution was ratified on March 4, 1789 -- thirteen years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration of Independence refers to "the Creator:"

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document; it is not the U.S. Constitution. Foes of the principle of separation of church and state often refer to the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence as proof that the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended for the United States to be ruled by a soveriegn being. Nothing could be further from the truth. The United States Constitution was written and ratified by elected officials representing a coalition of Enlightenment rationalists and evangelical Christians who were deeply concerned about entanglements between religion and government.


From Legacy Of Freedom by Rob Boston, Church and State, January, 2003. "Jefferson, Madison And The Nation's Founders Left Us Church-State Separation. Can We Keep It?"

What the Religious Right doesn't tell people, and what, tragically, many Amer*icans apparently don't know, is that when it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Consti*tution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God, Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian. The Religious Right's constant appeals to documents like the Declaration of Independence, which contains a deistic reference to "the Creator," cloud the issue and make some people believe their rights spring from these other documents.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

Brilliant. You answered a question no one asked. You said there is a separation of church and state in the Constitution. I (and some others) asked you to show me where that separation is stated and/or called for in the Constitution. Your retort about the use of the word Creator in the DoI and how the religious right think that means we're supposed to be governed by a supreme being doesn't support your argument.

Having sworn to uphold, support and defend the Constitution I've kinda taken an interest in what it says. Read this and attempt to comprehend it: Under the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, people are granted freedom of religion and it bans the establishment and/or support of a state (in the Federal sense) religion. It makes no mention of the separation of church and state. None. Nada. Nichts. Nyet.

[kamaz]

people are granted freedom of religion and it bans the establishment and/or support of a state (in the Federal sense) religion. It makes no mention of the separation of church and state. None. Nada. Nichts. Nyet.

How is this NOT a separation of church and state??

the Constitution bans the establishment of religion and federal/government support of religion. This is a separation of church and state exactly defined. The State cannot direct nor contribute/aid the Church. An exact separation. How is this difficult to comprehend?

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"

[kamaz]

btw, the phrase 'separation of church and state' was coined by Thomas Jefferson when he wrote a letter to a Connecticut church, but this is the same concept the framers of the Constitution agreed on when they wrote the Constitution.

from wikipedia

Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke [3], the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation"[4] between church and state. The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

[SoftLion]

How is this NOT a separation of church and state??

the Constitution bans the establishment of religion and federal/government support of religion. This is a separation of church and state exactly defined. The State cannot direct nor contribute/aid the Church. An exact separation. How is this difficult to comprehend?

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"

You would think that these same groups of atheists would go wild every time they reach into their wallets/purses and handle currency, wail and gnash their teeth at the fact that the 10 commandments adorn the halls of the highest court of the land, or rent their clothing in two when they read the pledge of allegience.

All have been upheld, hence the pettiness of this particular "controversy".

[SBL]

How is this NOT a separation of church and state??

the Constitution bans the establishment of religion and federal/government support of religion. This is a separation of church and state exactly defined. The State cannot direct nor contribute/aid the Church. An exact separation. How is this difficult to comprehend?

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"

When there is a federally-established "Church of America", you'll have an argument.

[seraosha]

theres nothing religious about maintaining a valid separation of Church and State, its in our Constitution, remember?

You have been shown to be incorrect about that statement, by more than one responder...are you going to admit you are wrong, or are you going to keep failing?

[kamaz]

You have been shown to be incorrect about that statement, by more than one responder...are you going to admit you are wrong, or are you going to keep failing?

I am not wrong. It is in our Constitution, I already posted the excerpts from the Constitution itself. This is ridiculous. I dont know how many times I should repeat myself.


its plainly written in the Constitution in the 1st Amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The modern concept is often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court,[1] though the Court has not always fully embraced the principle.[2][3][4]

[Yeti2424]

I am not wrong. It is in our Constitution, I already posted the excerpts from the Constitution itself. This is ridiculous. I dont know how many times I should repeat myself.


its plainly written in the Constitution in the 1st Amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The modern concept is often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court,[1] though the Court has not always fully embraced the principle.[2][3][4]

The idea of separation of church and state has been horribly misconstrued throughout the years. If you read the original letters in which Thomas Jefferson coined the phrase he was alleviating the fears of the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. They were worried about their small religious domination and religious freedom. Jefferson wrote: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." He quoted the first amendment and then used the idea of “a wall of separation” as an example to help explain how it would work. The first amendment was meant to restrict the government from interfering on the people’s ability to practice religion. Instead now it is used to by the some groups to try and restrict religious practices.

[kamaz]

. The first amendment was meant to restrict the government from interfering on the people’s ability to practice religion. Instead now it is used to by the some groups to try and restrict religious practices.

yes, it was meant to restrict the government's interference into religion, AND promotion or contribution to religious causes. Separation of federal government and religious institutions and causes. Freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion.

no one in this case is restricting religious beliefs, I dont know where you get this idea. I agree with most people here that its a big stretch to claim infringement of 1st amendment just because the post office issues a stamp with some old colossal religious fraud like Teresa. But, its important to have groups that constantly challenge the adherence to the Constitution, this in fact is what keeps us from deviating from the Constitutional framework.

as much as I disagree with what the ACLU says and stands for, they are an important part of democracy and they enforce the principle of the 1st Amendment - probably the most important Amendment in the Constitution.

[Hollis]

I am not wrong. It is in our Constitution, I already posted the excerpts from the Constitution itself. This is ridiculous. I dont know how many times I should repeat myself.





Keep the faith dude. Yes you can google and yes you can cut and paste, do you comprehend...................... Neyt.

[Virus]

theres nothing religious about maintaining a valid separation of Church and State, its in our Constitution, remember?

No....it isn't. In fact this shows that they aren't favoring any one religion, as they have other religious figures, other than Catholics, represented.

edit: What Laconian said :O

And for future reference, quoting Wikipedia isn't the best way to win an argument. And it says, "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." No law is being made.....its a stamp.

[Hollis]

There is a big difference in Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion. In 1979 the USPS issued a series of Black Heritage stamps. One was on Doctor Martin L. King. His PdD was in divinity, so was some of this other degrees, he was a member of the Clergy along with being very active participant in the American Civil Rights movement of the 50-60's. It is for his involvement in the Civil Rights movement that the stamp was issued, regardless of any religious organization or accreditation that he had. If we had Freedom from Religion, it could be that all religious symbols, terms, people etc would have to be excluded from society. Talk about massive bigotry and repression of thought.

Same here, Mother Teressa, her title is from her religious organization or what she preferred to be called. If there was a restrictions on the title, then we could not referred to Doctor King as Doctor (divinity degree). She is recognized for her humanitarian efforts, NOT Religious actions. The USPS is not promoting a religion, it is recognizing the humanitarian actions of a individual.

[seraosha]

Maybe smaller words would get the point across?

Whatever, not my job. All aboard the failboat.

[IraGlacialis]

And here I thought it was just hardcore Protestants that hated Mother Teresa.

Real atheists dont give a damn about the portrayal of religious figures. It is someone elses belief system, and they dont believe. A thumb print from a chimp would elicit as much interest from them - a "Yeah, whatever" response.
Slight clarification: Old or traditional atheists are the ones who don't really give a damn. It's pretty much "I really don't believe in any supernatural clap trap, but if you wish to practice in a religion, that is your prerogative, I futile as I may find it personally."

The new atheist movement are those who will tend to actively ridicule and demonize not only religion but its practitioners. Many also call for the abolishment of religion. Of course the Abrahamic faiths are the ones that get attack most often, while the Dharmic ones are ignored. Hell, many ridicule traditional atheists.
I couldn't care less if if a person like Hitchens is an atheist (I believe in a person's deeds, not what deity they worship), but if he actively insults me for my beliefs, it shouldn't be surprising if I have a less-than pleasant view of the guy.

Don't like Mother Teresa and want to protest to remove her image from a stamp because you think she is a fraud? Whatever, though I'm sure that there have been bigger spinsters than her on stamps.
But don't go parading around to have her stamp removed due to her connection to the Catholic Church, unless you plan on removing characters such as MLK Jr. Unless you folks really care that you will piss some people off.

[TheKiwi]

Thank you Ira, you put the position down rather well. I find zealots, whether religious or the quasi-religious atheist a pain in the bum.