Occupied Lebanese Village Remains in Limbo

[Ordie]

Occupied Lebanese Village Remains in Limbo
U.S. and U.N. Urge Israel to Pull Out, But It Says Residents Need Prostection
By CHARLES LEVINSON

GHAJAR, on the Israel-Lebanon border—The Obama administration is pushing Israel to withdraw its forces from the Lebanese side of this farming village, where 2,200 residents—all Israeli citizens—are stuck in limbo astride the border of two rival nations.

The U.S. hopes a pullout will bolster moderate forces in Lebanon by depriving Iran-backed Hezbollah of a rallying cry for militancy against Israeli as an occupying force.

The United Nations has proposed that its peacekeepers and Lebanese soldiers replace Israeli forces in the half of Ghajar that juts into Hezbollah-controlled territory in southern Lebanon. That would bring the last Israeli troops home from Lebanon, and put Israel in compliance with the U.N. resolution that ended the 2006 Lebanon War.

Israel has yet to agree, saying it is concerned about the fate of villagers and the potential legal repercussions of placing Israeli citizens under Lebanese sovereignty. Residents can now move freely into Israel, but not Lebanon.

"Ghajar's residents are Israelis and they depend on Israel, and they can't be simply abandoned in enemy territory controlled by Hezbollah," said a senior Israeli official. The Obama administration is "really pushing us, but they're not looking at the details," he said.

The last round of talks between Israel and the U.N. ended last week, without agreement.

Lebanon's government has accepted the U.N. proposal, according to U.S. and U.N. officials. Lebanese Minister of Administrative Affairs Mohammed Fneish, who represents Hezbollah in the cabinet, said: "Ghajar is Lebanese territory and there is nothing to discuss."

"The IDF withdrawal ought to be a no-brainer," said a senior U.S. diplomat in Washington, referring to Israel's military, the Israel Defense Forces. "Bottom line: This needs to be done and there is no reason why it cannot be done quickly."

Hezbollah, the diplomat said, "is praying that the IDF will stay on the Lebanese side of the blue line," the U.N.-drawn border separating the two countries. "Their narrative is that diplomacy is useless; that armed 'resistance' is the only way to go and that this is what justifies their armed status."

Under the U.N. proposal, villagers on the Lebanese side would remain Israeli and be allowed to continue working in Israel. Their only tie to Lebanon would be the flag flying over their land.

Some analysts say a withdrawal could backfire. "It's not clear who's going to claim victory in Beirut if Israel gives back territory," said Andrew Tabler, a Syria and Lebanon expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "It could wind up empowering Hezbollah's idea of resistance instead of those advocating a diplomatic process."

Residents of Ghajar, which was part of Syria for nearly five decades, fear being split or turned over to Lebanon. "We consider ourselves Syrian, part of Syria, and in a future peace agreement, we hope the village will return to Syrian sovereignty, but nobody is asking us what we want," says Najib Khatib, a village spokesman.

Ghajar is a victim of the Arab-Israeli conflict and European colonialism. At the end of World War I, British and French negotiators divvied up the Ottoman Empire, drawing boundaries that in many cases were vague. The far-flung village of Ghajar, nestled into a fertile valley between the Golan Heights and the Hasbani river, straddled an ill-defined border. The village became part of Syria, paying Syrian taxes, registering land deeds in Damascus, and serving in the Syrain army.

In 1967, Israel captured the village, along with the rest of the Golan Heights.

After Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978, it established a security buffer zone along the border. Ghajar quietly expanded northward into Lebanese territory.

When Israel passed a law annexing the captured territory in 1981, Ghajar's residents chose to accept full Israeli citizenship.


In 2000, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak withdrew Israeli forces from southern Lebanon and accepted the U.N.'s "blue line" as the de facto border. To the dismay of Ghajar's residents, the border bisected their village, splitting it between bitter enemies Hezbollah and Israel.

"The maps the U.N. used in 2000 did not reflect the reality on the ground that Ghajar is and always has been recognized as a part of the Syrian Golan Heights and not part of Lebanon," says Mr. Khatib.

Israeli troops remained in the southern half of the village. Hezbollah sat on the village's northern edge. The village became a popular crossing point for drug smugglers. Hezbollah used it as a launch pad for attacks against Israeli soldiers.

When Israel went to war against Lebanon in 2006 in response to another Hezbollah border attack, it reoccupied the entire village, and has yet to withdraw. That has left Israel in violation of U.N. resolution 1701, which concluded the war.

The Israeli army restricts all access to Ghajar for nonresidents, but allowed a small group of journalists to make a rare visit to the village this week.

Ghajar's residents are members of the same Allawite minority sect as Syria's ruling Assad family. Residents pay all standard taxes to Israel, but because half of the village lies on Lebanese territory, Israeli companies won't visit the village and the Israeli government is unable to provide many basic services, according to residents and Israeli officials.

If there is a fire on the Lebanese side of the village, Ghajar residents have to deploy their own bucket brigade to douse it, they said. When someone dies, the body has to be taken to an army checkpoint 200 feet from the edge of the village for an Israeli police inspector to sign the death certificate. If a refrigerator breaks down, the appliance has to be transported to the checkpoint, attached to a long extension cord, where an Israeli repairman can fix it.

"The kind of normal life you would expect as a citizen of any normal country has been denied to us," says Mr. Khatib.


Source:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704194504575031252088639426.html?mod=WSJ_World_LEFTSecondNews#printMode

[Octavariable]

What a nice choice of words for the title.
that "Occupied Lebanese village" is not Lebanese, and it's northern part is only "occupied" because they are Israeli citizens, which may cause a lefty brain overload, I mean, how could it be that Israel is actually vying for the security and well being of it's Arab citizens.

[gilgoul]

You are wrong both in intent and in facts.

"Ordie, Israel bashing running out of excuses"

[~Berdan]

Ordie,I like the criticism just like the next guy (that's why I am getting infracted all over the place ),but where are you going with this?

What's your point in this?

Are you some kind of universal freedom fighter?

Whatever,there is absolutely no blame of Israel in this situation whatsoever.First of all,this "occupied Lebanese village" title is pure BS.


Second of all,visiting this village more then once will give an idea that villagers prefer to live under Israeli side than Lebanese.

Third of all,again,what?What's your point here?

[Isaac Kasabian]

MK Katz on Ghajar: 'There Is a Limit to Stupidity

(IsraelNN.com) The government’s intention to accept demands from the United Nations, Hizbullah and Lebanon to withdraw from part of the northern border village of Ghajar is ”beyond the limits of stupidity,” National Union MK Yaakov (Ketzaleh) Katz said on Sunday during a visit to the town.

“It is a wonder that in this age, when the whole world is against building walls, that the United Nations wants Israel to split up families cruelly with a fence in the middle of a village,” he said. National Union Knesset Member Dr. Michael Ben-Ari and MK Katz accompanied Druze Likud Minister Ayoub Kara to Ghajar, where they planted a tree in honor of the upcoming Tu B’Shvat (New Year for Trees) festival.


Villagers told the visiting MKs that the decade-long threat to place the northern part of the town across the Lebanese border has left it without proper public facilities from the Israeli government.

“The fall of the Berlin Wall 20 years ago recently was celebrated," MK Kara said, “Today, the residents of Ghajar fear the building of a wall that would create a humanitarian tragedy.” He noted that the villagers have contributed to the security of Israel and see themselves as part of the country.

“Whoever hurts Ghajar residents is guilty of a humanitarian crime,” stated MK Ben-Ari. “Today it is Ghajar; tomorrow it is the Golan Heights and eastern Jerusalem.”

Israel annexed the northern part of Ghajar after the Six-Day War in 1967. In 2000, the IDF pulled out of northern Ghajar but re-entered in 2006 durng the Second Lebanon War. The United Nations aims to place northern Ghajar in the hands of Syria.

The village is inhabited by Alawite Muslims, a minority sect of Shi'ite Muslims who hold an eclectic array of beliefs largely drawn from Islam, but including some Christian and secret beliefs.

Ghajar's Mukhtar (village leader) says his village will fight – to the death – to keep the town together. "We will not allow a fence to separate between brothers, between a father and his son, and tear the heart of the village to pieces," he said. "We will fight for the unity of the village until death."

Lebanese newspaper A-Nahar reported at the end of 2009 that the IDF will withdraw troops from the northern part of the city at the end of next month. According to the paper, the decision was made following talks between Israel, the United Nations and Lebanon with the collaboration of the United States. If Israel pulls out, 12 UNIFIL soldiers and four Lebanese soldiers will be deployed in the field.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135657

[gilgoul]

Ghajar is an Alawi Syrian village, from which most of the population decided to take Israeli citizenship.
If they suffer any it is because of the UN on this one.

[Atlantic Friend]

Ghajar is an Alawi Syrian village, from which most of the population decided to take Israeli citizenship.
If they suffer any it is because of the UN on this one.

I don't understand, how is it the UN fault here?

[Moledet]

I don't understand, how is it the UN fault here?
The UN pressures Israel to abandon the village without giving any solution to the residents.
Why not have a referendum asking the residents if they want Israeli or Lebanese citizenship? It's a small village, shouldn't take more than a day.

[RoyB]

I don't understand, how is it the UN fault here?

In 2000, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak withdrew Israeli forces from southern Lebanon and accepted the U.N.'s "blue line" as the de facto border. To the dismay of Ghajar's residents, the border bisected their village, splitting it between bitter enemies Hezbollah and Israel.

"The maps the U.N. used in 2000 did not reflect the reality on the ground that Ghajar is and always has been recognized as a part of the Syrian Golan Heights and not part of Lebanon," says Mr. Khatib.
...............

[Ordie]

Ordie,I like the criticism just like the next guy (that's why I am getting infracted all over the place ),but where are you going with this?

I thought it was an interesting article to share.

My thoughts....let the locals decide.



Don't balme me for the title, blame the Wall Street Journal.

[Ordie]

Ghajar is an Alawi Syrian village, from which most of the population decided to take Israeli citizenship.
If they suffer any it is because of the UN on this one.

Isn't Bashir Assad of Syria an Alawite?

[0rphie]

My thoughts....let the locals decide.
if you do let the locals to decide, you may as well start redrawing all borders across the globe. Might be another bad precedent in addition to widely known previous.

[Ordie]

if you do let the locals to decide, you may as well start redrawing all borders across the globe. Might be another bad precedent in addition to widely known previous.

Borders are a human product and they are always shifting.

One option is to claim the village as Syrian Territory under Israeli Administration. This way you shift the problems between Syria and Lebanon while keeping the status quo.

[Hollis]

I thought it was an interesting article to share.

My thoughts....let the locals decide.



Don't balme me for the title, blame the Wall Street Journal.

It does show how things have gotten convoluted over time, especially from outside intervention. I think the local should at least have a say in the matter. The UN is a political body and often the decision are made to fulfill certain political agendas.

Orphie, many of the political boundaries in the ME are not natural, but have been drawn up by outside authorities like the UN, or a major world power at the time. Local should have some say. IMHO, the Palestinian and Israeli conflict has been messed with by too many outsiders, which tends to keep the conflict going. With other conflicts in the world that almost goes unnoticed, it is the Palestinian/Israeli conflict that seems to have one of the highest political importance to more people through out the world, especially now that cold war is over. That begs a question why? Look at this forum, Israel a land of 7 million people gets more articles posted about it, than countries 20 times it size or bigger and people who comment on it, are all experts. Maybe, the world should bugger off and let the locals decide.

[Kaplanr]

. . . . . Maybe, the world should bugger off and let the locals decide. Good Lord Hollis, I said that when I was piddly freshman after Sadat visited Jerusalem. ;) Problem is no one will listen, and neither side feels compelled enough to sit down.

Problem with Ghajar is the same as Shaba Farms. It may well be Lebanese territory, but in June 1967 it was Syrian. So which resolution has primacy 242 (territory to Syria) or 1701 (territory to Lebanon?) The other question is what happens to the "Israeli" residents if and when the territory is returned to whomever? They very well might be considered traitors for opting into Israeli citizenship (the adults old enough to have done so,) and be subject to trial and punishment.

IMHO, Ghajar doesn't get resolved until Israel and Syria talk, and then it has to be with some kind of guarantee for the residents that their Israeli citizenship won't be used against them.

[bbsh]

"The official said Israel wants guarantees the Lebanese government will control Ghajar's northern section after a withdrawal."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1222017496869&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

&

"Diplomatic officials said that reaching an understanding over the issue was made more complicated because Lebanon refuses to have any dealings, even indirectly, with Israel, and all the negotiations are being conducted with UNIFIL."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1262339424167

&

Ghajar residents to IDF: Don't withdraw

"A number of Ghajar residents met Tuesday with Foreign Ministry director-general Yossi Gal and expressed fierce opposition to Israel pulling back from the northern part of Ghajar."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378346414&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

[bbsh]

In my opinion, Israel shouldnt cede anything at this point.. Neither sheba farms or ghajar..

Whats the point? Hezballah has already made its intentions clear by declaring that large portions of northern Israel are also Lebanese land and need to be liberated..

[dracon49]

LOL..for Hezbollah every inch of Israel is consider as occupied.

[LEB101]

no one gets it syria and loves the fact that this is such a difficult cituation.if it was easy than hezbollah would have no reason to keep their weapons. syria wants the vllage to stay under israel control so they can keep having hezbollah fight israel so they can get what they really want . the golan

[Alex G]

As far i understand - at the day when Israel agrees with Syria on giving golan highs back, this problem will be solved in way thats best for all.

[Connaught Ranger]

Borders are a human product and they are always shifting.

One option is to claim the village as Syrian Territory under Israeli Administration. This way you shift the problems between Syria and Lebanon while keeping the status quo.

Please post a few examples of this "Shifting Border Syndrome".

[martinexsquaddie]

met tte bloke who drew the orginal israeli border back in 47.
apprantly there was all this discussion about the map before somebody realised there was no definitative map so Junior royal engineer officer sent to office with pen ink map and ruler to draw the border

[OrangeWolf]

As far i understand - at the day when Israel agrees with Syria on giving golan highs back, this problem will be solved in way thats best for all.

Except for the civilians of the Northern Galilee and those who try to swim around in the Sea of Galilee without being shot at, or those farmers in the Hula valley or whichever land the Syrians demand next.

[Alex G]

Except for the civilians of the Northern Galilee and those who try to swim around in the Sea of Galilee without being shot at, or those farmers in the Hula valley or whichever land the Syrians demand next.

Highs are syrian, no question about it. They will be probably given back someday, Israel doesnt want them that bad either. And this people see themselves as Syrian, so its logically that they will become part of Syria instead ob Lebanon.

[Snoshi]

Israel doesnt want them that bad either.

Read up and post again.. GH have a very big strategic value for Israel.

[11 Bravo]

Read up and post again.. GH have a very big strategic value for Israel.

Snoshi ; You would think guys would remember this very fact - and considering Israel was attacked by all these arab dictatorships at one time and handed each one their respective hind ends in conflict should be more clear as to why the Golan heights are still in Isreali hands. When the arab countries get democracy and not these tribal dictatorships they seem to be force fed such negotiations would I bet be looked forward too by Israel. With the continuing taint of radical religion in the arab world I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.

[RoyB]

Highs are syrian, no question about it.
Not anymore.

Israel doesnt want them that bad either.
The Golan's strategic value trumps everything.

[kamaz]

Israel pressured to give up land > Enemies see it as a sign of weakness and demand more concessions > Israel refuses more concessions > US and UN pressure Israel for more concessions > Israel's enemies sense weakness and start a war > Israel defeats latest threat and acquires territory during the fighting > Israel pressured to give up land > Enemies see it as a sign of weakness and demand more concessions > etc etc

rinse and repeat.

[kamaz]

Highs are syrian, no question about it. They will be probably given back someday, Israel doesnt want them that bad either. And this people see themselves as Syrian, so its logically that they will become part of Syria instead ob Lebanon.

hey Alex G, do you think Konigsberg is German?

or Russian?

[JordanN]

Israel giving up any parts of the Golan would be stupid.
Hell, they seceded additional conquered land from the Yom Kippur War to Syria but they (the Syrians) still hate Israel.

[Alex G]

hey Alex G, do you think Konigsberg is German?

or Russian?

Germany and Russia agreed on it being Russian. Israel actually seems to agree that Golan highs are Syrian, or they woulndt even try to discuss on giving it back. And actually - there are international laws that regulate how and when land is being occupied or integrated in other country.

[kamaz]

Germany and Russia agreed on it being Russian. Israel actually seems to agree that Golan highs are Syrian, or they woulndt even try to discuss on giving it back. And actually - there are international laws that regulate how and when land is being occupied or integrated in other country.

right , they 'agreed' after Russian tanks were driving down Berlin roads.

Israel is under no obligation to give anything back until Damascus either signs a peace treaty, stops support for regional terror groups and stops supplying their proxy army in Lebanon.

[Alex G]

right , they 'agreed' after Russian tanks were driving down Berlin roads.

Israel is under no obligation to give anything back until Damascus either signs a peace treaty, stops support for regional terror groups and stops supplying their proxy army in Lebanon.

And Israel is keeping control only to ensure that there will be peace. If Syria becomes friendly state, they will give the highs back.

[OrangeWolf]

And Israel is keeping control only to ensure that there will be peace. If Syria becomes friendly state, they will give the highs back.

Turkey and Syria are on relatively good terms, but Turkey is not going to give "back" Hatay.
Austria and Italy are on good terms, but Italy is not going to give "back" Trento/South Tyrol. etc.

[One?]

The lebanese have proved over and over that the area belongs to lebanon through official documents, land ownerships etc...Syria set up a police station and wanted to claim the area, then the israeli arab wars broke out and israeli slowly started creeping up on the village and the nearby farms in the 50's till this day.

Either way they both want it for strategic reasons and because of water. I love how Israel withdrew in 2000, reoccupied it in 2006 but according to your logic the citizens have always been israeli.

[gilgoul]

Highs are syrian, no question about it. They will be probably given back someday, Israel doesnt want them that bad either. And this people see themselves as Syrian, so its logically that they will become part of Syria instead ob Lebanon.

over my dead body

[Isaac Kasabian]

The lebanese have proved over and over that the area belongs to lebanon through official documents, land ownerships etc...Syria set up a police station and wanted to claim the area, then the israeli arab wars broke out and israeli slowly started creeping up on the village and the nearby farms in the 50's till this day.

Either way they both want it for strategic reasons and because of water. I love how Israel withdrew in 2000, reoccupied it in 2006 but according to your logic the citizens have always been israeli.

IF it was yours nobody forced you to wage war against Israel, your loss.

[Ought Six]

AG:
"Highs are syrian, no question about it."Because you say so? :cantbeli:
----------
"They will be probably given back someday, Israel doesnt want them that bad either. And this people see themselves as Syrian, so its logically that they will become part of Syria instead ob Lebanon."The idea that the Israelis "do not want them {the Golan Heights} that bad" is a positively retarded statement. From the Golan, Damascus is within range of Israeli long-range artillery. This is an invaluable deterrent against the Syrians thinking they might once again attack Israel and get away with it. Conversely, if the Golan is in enemy hands, it puts all of northern Israel within range of enemy long-range artillery. This would be an intolerable situation to Israel, especially in light of the Hzibollah bombardment of Israel in 2006. The Golan is *the* critical strategic ground in the north of Israel, as it has been in just about every attack on Israel by its hostile neighbors. Those who do not grasp that fact are quite clueless.

[the_Wicked]

Please post a few examples of this "Shifting Border Syndrome".

That's an easy one, compare the political map of the world today with one of a hundred years ago.

Also, the Golan Heights have been Israeli longer than they've been Syrian. At this point there's no real reason to demand it back other than to intentionally forcing enmity from Israel.

On a side note, I wonder if in the year 2200 the Syrians would still demand "their" Golan Heights back, and the Palestinians still demand Israeli's to return to "their countries of origin".

[gilgoul]

Yeah, and his grand fsther's name was "warsh" (meaning village idiot), which is quite less glorious than "Al Assad", the Lion.
I still don't see where it is supposed to solve Ghajar's problems.

People of Ghajar want to stay Israeli, want to remain in Israel, and because of the stupidity of the UNSC and the appeasers of Jerusalem, 2000 people find themselves in trouble.

[gilgoul]

The lebanese have proved over and over that the area belongs to lebanon through official documents, land ownerships etc...Syria set up a police station and wanted to claim the area, then the israeli arab wars broke out and israeli slowly started creeping up on the village and the nearby farms in the 50's till this day.

Either way they both want it for strategic reasons and because of water. I love how Israel withdrew in 2000, reoccupied it in 2006 but according to your logic the citizens have always been israeli.

Proved what?

All of the land deeds where signed in Kuneitra, not in Marjayoun.
Truth is, I live 20mn from Ghajar, while from your faraway shelter you may have some difficulties to get to the bottom level of things.

[LEB101]

AG:Because you say so? :cantbeli:
----------The idea that the Israelis "do not want them {the Golan Heights} that bad" is a positively retarded statement. From the Golan, Damascus is within range of Israeli long-range artillery. This is an invaluable deterrent against the Syrians thinking they might once again attack Israel and get away with it. Conversely, if the Golan is in enemy hands, it puts all of northern Israel within range of enemy long-range artillery. This would be an intolerable situation to Israel, especially in light of the Hzibollah bombardment of Israel in 2006. The Golan is *the* critical strategic ground in the north of Israel, as it has been in just about every attack on Israel by its hostile neighbors. Those who do not grasp that fact are quite clueless. what you just said is retarded israeli dosnt need the golan like it did 30 40 years ago to threaten damasc and they dont need it to deter syria syria is not going to attack israel they could not do it successfuly 30 years ago when the technology was closer they know they cant do it now. israel should pull out of shebba farms and find another way to get water. and pull out of the golan . this way syria has no excuses not to make peace with israel and once syria and israel makes peace hamas and hizballah die

[LineDoggie]

The UN pressures Israel to abandon the village without giving any solution to the residents.
Why not have a referendum asking the residents if they want Israeli or Lebanese citizenship? It's a small village, shouldn't take more than a day.
Not enough time for the UN to let in Hamas, and Hezzbollah to kill and threaten residents to vote their way.

[OrangeWolf]

what you just said is retarded israeli dosnt need the golan like it did 30 40 years ago to threaten damasc and they dont need it to deter syria syria is not going to attack israel they could not do it successfuly 30 years ago when the technology was closer they know they cant do it now. israel should pull out of shebba farms and find another way to get water. and pull out of the golan . this way syria has no excuses not to make peace with israel and once syria and israel makes peace hamas and hizballah die

Arab brothers are still occupied in the occupied territories.
Arab brothers in the Galilee are still occupied, right next to our doorstep!
Arab brothers are still occupied in the whole of Palestine.
Jews are influencing the world to act against Syria, we cannot allow this.

They will find a weird reason or excuse to miss an oppertunity for peace. They should shove their rights to Golan just like Turkey is not giving them Hatay. This dumb ass Syrian regime survives on hatred of Israel to keep its majority Sunnis happy. If they make peace with the Yahud the Alewites infidels are done for. Like any other dictatorships Syria exists because it has scapegoats, and the illusion Israel wants to destroy Syria and all Syrians is the kind of fear they need to survive. Golan or no Golan.

[Moledet]

what you just said is retarded israeli dosnt need the golan like it did 30 40 years ago to threaten damasc and they dont need it to deter syria syria is not going to attack israel they could not do it successfuly 30 years ago when the technology was closer they know they cant do it now. israel should pull out of shebba farms and find another way to get water. and pull out of the golan . this way syria has no excuses not to make peace with israel and once syria and israel makes peace hamas and hizballah die
You are wrong since their demand is for Israel to first withdraw and then they will start the peace talks. In other words, they want the Golan but not a peace treaty. They want it simply to become a front base for terrorists.

In 2 years we will be independent of any fresh water source and be able to use sea water only.

[LEB101]

You are wrong since their demand is for Israel to first withdraw and then they will start the peace talks. In other words, they want the Golan but not a peace treaty. They want it simply to become a front base for terrorists.

In 2 years we will be independent of any fresh water source and be able to use sea water only.
so you are backing up hassan nusrallahs when he says that israel steals arab water.

[OrangeWolf]

so you are backing up hassan nusrallahs when he says that israel steals arab water.

As long as Jews live in any part of occupied Palestine they steal Arab water no?

[Moledet]

so you are backing up hassan nusrallahs when he says that israel steals arab water.
Maybe you didn't understand my post. We will not use any water coming from lakes/rivers/streams by 2012. Only use desalinated sea water and recycled sewage water.
Anyway, if a river runs through our country we are allowed to use its water and it's not stealing. Diverting water is indeed stealing, if for example some country decides to block the Nile to use its water and as result the Egyptian part dries that's stealing.

[LEB101]

Maybe you didn't understand my post. We will not use any water coming from lakes/rivers/streams by 2012. Only use desalinated sea water and recycled sewage water.
Anyway, if a river runs through our country we are allowed to use its water and it's not stealing. Diverting water is indeed stealing, if for example some country decides to block the Nile to use its water and as result the Egyptian part dries that's stealing.
if you use water in the golan or shebba farms thats stealing BECUASE THEY ARE NOT YOUR LAND

[Soldat_Américain]

In the words of many Texans (not one): "come and take it."

[Moledet]

if you use water in the golan or shebba farms thats stealing BECUASE THEY ARE NOT YOUR LAND
We pump the water from the Kineret (Sea of Galilee).
It depends on who you are asking, even according to the UN it's ours as long as there's no peace treaty.

[PsychoDude]

if you use water in the golan or shebba farms thats stealing BECUASE THEY ARE NOT YOUR LAND
How come not Israeli land? under Israeli control therefore ISRAELI

[Octavariable]

I have no problem not using water from the Golan or Mt. Dov.

I'll simply wait 3 days to 2 weeks until they get pumped away from the sea of Galilee. Gravity FTW.

[OrangeWolf]

We pump the water from the Kineret (Sea of Galilee).
It depends on who you are asking, even according to the UN it's ours as long as there's no peace treaty.

I believe Kibbutz Snir takes it directly from the Banias? I could be wrong.

[GB_FXST]

We pump the water from the Kineret (Sea of Galilee).
It depends on who you are asking, even according to the UN it's ours as long as there's no peace treaty.

No two ways about it. UNSC 242 is clear: no mutually agreeable peace, no return of any land.

[LEB101]

No two ways about it. UNSC 242 is clear: no mutually agreeable peace, no return of any land.
israel digs its self deeper into trouble the longer it occupies land. if israel didnt occupy south lebanon for so long there woulnd be no hizballah and from when do you guys care about the UN. half the un resolutions israel never complies with or if it does it does so 25 years later

[GB_FXST]

israel digs its self deeper into trouble the longer it occupies land. if israel didnt occupy south lebanon for so long there woulnd be no hizballah and from when do you guys care about the UN. half the un resolutions israel never complies with or if it does it does so 25 years later

I do not care about the UNGA. It is a pathetic Orwelian joke, at best.

Also, UNSC Chapter VI resolutions are non binding. Now, 242 is issued under Chapter VI, but Israel accepts it nonetheless.

[Moledet]

israel digs its self deeper into trouble the longer it occupies land. if israel didnt occupy south lebanon for so long there woulnd be no hizballah and from when do you guys care about the UN. half the un resolutions israel never complies with or if it does it does so 25 years later
It seems like most Arab countries agree that Iran and its allies (Syria, Lebanon) are the biggest trouble in the ME.

[Sumadinac]

I thought it was an interesting article to share..

Yeah, it rather seems that israel is your obsession. And since you're not arab or jewish, it sounds even more bizarre.

It would be nice to see you focusing as much on african conflicts as you do with israel. After all, the forgotten Africa deserves some attention too, no? A great humanist like you should think about it.

[JordanN]

israel digs its self deeper into trouble the longer it occupies land. if israel didnt occupy south lebanon for so long there woulnd be no hizballah and from when do you guys care about the UN. half the un resolutions israel never complies with or if it does it does so 25 years later
Blame the PLO for provoking Israel into going into Lebanon.

[Paul85]

It seems like most Arab countries agree that Iran and its allies (Syria, Lebanon) are the biggest trouble in the ME.

please adjust your saying since Lebanon is not Iran's ally!!! HA is ... but not all of Lebanon!!!

[LEB101]

please adjust your saying since Lebanon is not Iran's ally!!! HA is ... but not all of Lebanon!!!
yeah but ya zalami hizballah is working to drag the lebanese government into freindship with the nut jobs in tehran

[Paul85]

yeah but ya zalami hizballah is working to drag the lebanese government into freindship with the nut jobs in tehran

maybe they are!!! but don't you forget that a BIG part of the Lebanese ppl doesn't like Iran & will never like Iran. thus, don't you even consider that we will become as HA (a simple puppet in the hand of the Iranians!!!)

[LEB101]

maybe they are!!! but don't you forget that a BIG part of the Lebanese ppl doesn't like Iran & will never like Iran. thus, don't you even consider that we will become as HA (a simple puppet in the hand of the Iranians!!!)
dont forget they are still lebanese so a large portion of our population is supportive of iran and syria and we cant change that

[Paul85]

dont forget they are still lebanese so a large portion of our population is supportive of iran and syria and we cant change that

exactly, & i know that i can't change them!!! thats why i totally beleive in the Fedral Regime!!!

[LEB101]

exactly, & i know that i can't change them!!! thats why i totally beleive in the Fedral Regime!!!
NO no federalism it would be the worst thing we could do. when hassan nasrallah says no federalism i am sorry to say i agree with him

[Paul85]

NO no federalism it would be the worst thing we could do. when hassan nasrallah says no federalism i am sorry to say i agree with him

why not? just give me one smal reason why shouldn't we live in Federalism?

in addition, if you look closely nowadays ... you will see that we are already living in such regim but it is Geographical Federelism! each part of Beirut is inhabited by ppl of the same religion! you can't see this mixture that used to be before 1975. thus, why not Federalism?
now i do understand why you don't want Federalism ... especially that you are from the south ... but if it continues that way, well bro, screw them, their way of living & the fact of living among those bloody, anti-hygienic retards!!!

[LEB101]

why not? just give me one smal reason why shouldn't we live in Federalism?

in addition, if you look closely nowadays ... you will see that we are already living in such regim but it is Geographical Federelism! each part of Beirut is inhabited by ppl of the same religion! you can't see this mixture that used to be before 1975. thus, why not Federalism?
now i do understand why you don't want Federalism ... especially that you are from the south ... but if it continues that way, well bro, screw them, their way of living & the fact of living among those bloody, anti-hygienic retards!!! i dont think you know the south too well then . thers shia christian sunii druze and bedo all in the south there are muslims in east beirut and christians in west beirut