Wind Turbines...failure

[I can't think of a name]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1390565.shtml

[The Dane]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1390565.shtml

.. IN Minnesota

[happyslapper]

Wind Turbines...failure

Oh definitely.

It's like my car; it's not moved from the driveway for 6hours now...failure.

[Clockwinder]

Next time the good stewards of Minnesotans money want to throw some away, I'll gladly give them my account number.
So you CAN sell ice to Eskimos?

[I can't think of a name]

The solution is heaters to the fluids start flowing and the thing starts turning. Where does the heat come from? Gas heaters lol.

[The Dane]

http://www.starch.dk/isi/energy/wind.htm

[MaNiC]

The solution is heaters to the fluids start flowing and the thing starts turning. Where does the heat come from? Gas heaters lol.

Nope, the solution is magnetic wind turbines.

[JKD]

Wind turbines are used in Alaska, Canada, and Scandinavia so they will work in cold climates.

According to this article some people are blaming the contractor (they don't work even when it's not cold) and the fact that this is the farthest north this particular type has been used


Newly installed wind turbines idled by Minnesota's winter: Cold weather blamed for failure of windmills to work properly [Pioneer Press, St. Paul, Minn.]


Jan. 24--Last year, about a dozen Minnesota communities dreamed of clean, green energy: spinning windmills powering hundreds of homes. Now, months after the deadline, the windmills stand largely immobile, and communities are still waiting for the power to flow.

Eleven cities, including North St. Paul and Anoka, are participating in the wind turbine project, each getting a 115-foot windmill via the Minnesota Municipal Power Association, or MMPA.

The turbines were to be fully operational by Nov. 7. To date, the number is zero.

One reason offered this week at a North St. Paul City Council meeting: hydraulic fluid and lubricating oil in the turbines' gear boxes. In cold weather, the fluid turns gel-like and doesn't flow, said Derick Dahlen, president of Avant Energy, which manages the MMPA. That can be particularly problematic if the turbines are already at a standstill.

To fix the problem, a contractor installed heating elements this week in the turbines. In addition, heat tracing is likely to be added to the hydraulic lines and lubrication oil system.

But that might not be enough, said Dahlen, who blames his engineering and construction contractor for the delay.

"I think they should absolutely have known about the cold weather issue, but I think the problems go deeper with that. It's a contributing factor, it's not a causal factor," Dahlen said. "The root problem is that the contractor is not solving any problems. ... The weather warms up, and they still don't

run."

"The units are not set up correctly," he added. "(The contractor denies) that there's a problem."

Lisa Lutz, in-house council for Henkles & McCoy Inc., replied: "We were just made aware of the situation in headquarters (in Pennsylvania) today. We are investigating this matter. Henkles & McCoy is a family-owned business that has been in business for 86 years, and stands behind its work."

In the meantime, residents driving past the turbines wonder why they aren't running.

"Who's the idiot that didn't realize that a California whirligig is something that doesn't work in Minnesota?" asked John Schmahl, a 35-year North St. Paul resident and frequent gadfly at city meetings. "I have never seen it turn. Not once."

Schmahl refers to the fact that the windmills were bought from Escondido, Calif.-based, enXco, a subsidiary of the French company EDF Energies Nouvelles, and have never operated under such cold conditions.

North St. Paul City Manager Wally Wysopal said yes, the city's windmill has turned and even put some power on the grid.

But Dahlen admits: "This is the farthest north they (the windmills) have been. So we expect to have some amount of issue with cold weather operation ... and we expect to solve it, too. The problems are all solvable problems."

Dahlen said the turbines had been refurbished, because the MMPA could not afford new units, but have a history of running well.

Wysopal said he's disappointed by the delay.

"We're feeling that we just expected it to be going as soon as it went up, but apparently that's not feasible sometimes," he said. "We see it as a contractor issue; an issue between the contractor and (MMPA). ... For now, we're going to accept that."

The windmills each cost about $417,000 and have been erected in Anoka, Arlington, Brownton, Buffalo, Chaska, East Grand Forks, Le Sueur, North St. Paul, Olivia, Shakopee and Winthrop, as well as at the MMPA's energy park in Faribault. To fund the project, MMPA sold $5 million in zero-interest bonds.

Under the program, the cities buy energy from MMPA, their primary energy provider.

The turbines were installed to meet a state law requiring energy producers to provide 25 percent of output from renewable sources by 2025. The delay in getting the windmills online has not affected the supply, because other energy sources were already in place.

The 160-kilowatt turbines are much smaller than some modern turbines elsewhere in the state. For example, the turbines at Xcel Energy's Grand Meadow Wind Farm, near Rochester, stand nearly 40 stories tall, and generate 1.5 megawatts. They work in temperatures down to 20 below, Xcel officials said.

Leslie Brooks Suzukamo contributed to this report. Tad Vezner can be reached at 651-228-5461.

To see more of the Pioneer Press, or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.twincities.com.

Copyright (c) 2010, Pioneer Press, St. Paul, Minn.

Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services. For reprints, email tmsreprints@permissionsgroup.com, call 800-374-7985 or 847-635-6550, send a fax to 847-635-6968, or write to The Permissions Group Inc., 1247 Milwaukee Ave., Suite 303, Glenview, IL 60025, USA.

[Kap]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1390565.shtml

You don't even see the stupid turbines in MN. They are much more prevalent in Iowa. And quite frankly, it really isn't THAT cold in MN.

[Clockwinder]

It's a case of contractor fraud - it's not the technology or the weather. It's the contractor being unable to cope with either. The MN government contracting group needs to be scoured from bottom to top and every engineer they have, sacked, then the contractor sued and made to put it right.

[NorthDave]

KAP!.....I'm going to ignore that comment. You should see the ice on my house and driveway! (I AM the idiot who won't move away though....)

I've driven by the turbines in No. St. Paul and Faribault for quite some time now, wondering why they built them and have never implemented them. I drive by enough to know that they are never in use.

Now that I know...how long does it take to fix those white elephants...I mean white turbines? Jeez.

[Panchito12]

The solution is heaters to the fluids start flowing and the thing starts turning. Where does the heat come from? Gas heaters lol.

Some WD40 will take care of that baby!

[budgie]

This thread is a classic example of someoneone taking it upon themselves to parrot the party line pf the right no matter what. Wind turbines are green technology, not perfect I guess, but therefore must be evil. What's the alternative? None offered. Just that green technology=fail, and therefore, by defauilt the whole idea of clean energy is a fail, and by insinuation the coal and oil and gas industry should be allwed to carry on polluting without regulation or oversight forever. Nothing to see here.

[HellToupee]

We have wind turbines in Antarctica powering bases just fine.

[vinny_121_ND]

This thread is a classic example of someoneone taking it upon themselves to parrot the party line pf the right no matter what. Wind turbines are green technology, not perfect I guess, but therefore must be evil. What's the alternative? None offered. Just that green technology=fail, and therefore, by defauilt the whole idea of clean energy is a fail, and by insinuation the coal and oil and gas industry should be allwed to carry on polluting without regulation or oversight forever. Nothing to see here.

I'll agree with you here. Every evolution in technology has its hiccups that need to be corrected. We can't give up on green technology just because the going gets tough.

[Lazy Lob]

Nope, the solution is magnetic wind turbines.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3564/fridgemagnet.jpg
..........

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This thread is a classic example of someoneone taking it upon themselves to parrot the party line pf the right no matter what. Wind turbines are green technology, not perfect I guess, but therefore must be evil. What's the alternative? None offered. Just that green technology=fail, and therefore, by defauilt the whole idea of clean energy is a fail, and by insinuation the coal and oil and gas industry should be allwed to carry on polluting without regulation or oversight forever. Nothing to see here.

Jeeeez...is that what you got out of this thread? Why not keep extending it to the horizon? Let's see where were we - ah yes - oil and gas industry carry on pollution without regulation forever, appoint them as our supreme rulers, they change the diet of all Africans to make them fat, start burning BTU-rich Africans as fuel (might as well make them terrible racists while I'm at it), construct temples of human skulls all over the planet, Satan returns during the rapture and is well pleased. Gah. :cantbeli:

[Mackie]

Problems with gears of wind turbines are not new.
Luckily, it's only tiny windpark.

[gazell]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1390565.shtml

And the point is? Apart from wind turbines failed in some place as all other shyte does sometime.

Do you also report every power generator failure on these forums? Or just bored as of current?

[budgie]

Jeeeez...is that what you got out of this thread? Why not keep extending it to the horizon? Let's see where were we - ah yes - oil and gas industry carry on pollution without regulation forever, appoint them as our supreme rulers, they change the diet of all Africans to make them fat, start burning BTU-rich Africans as fuel (might as well make them terrible racists while I'm at it), construct temples of human skulls all over the planet, Satan returns during the rapture and is well pleased. Gah. :cantbeli:

See? Now you're staring to get it.

[The Dane]

We looove windmills :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Denmark

[Solomin]

Next time the good stewards of Minnesotans money want to throw some away, I'll gladly give them my account number.
So you CAN sell ice to Eskimos?

We're really good at throwing money away. Recently, in downtown Minneapolis, they changed 2 parallel running streets from 1 ways, to 2, 2 ways! Then, they made a road 2 blocks over a 1 way next to another, bus and taxi only 1 way, a 1 way...and it's a bus and taxi only, but just during certain times...THEN! they threw an awesome bike lane on 1 of the 2 ways, and took away the bike lane that was on the other, but you can't park on it. So now people have to park in what is technically the middle lane of a 2 way street.

A giant waste of money spent on street musical chairs...and of course, traffic is worse now.

[Mastermind]

Corn ethanol...oh, the unintended consequences...who would have thought the water, the land, the fertilizer, the pollution, the high food prices, the starving children in Africa?...

Wind...an excellent resource...but, how ugly...anyone live near Concord Calif? I used to drive through there and marvel at the amazing beauty of the green hills...now, it is nothing but turbine towers everywhere you look...disgusting.

Oil...fly over S.E. New Mexico, S.W. Texas...the land is destroyed with oil service roads and well locations...permanently scarred...for a thousand years. And, the society now is hooked on cars like a crack whore on crack. We'll do anything...just let us have our cars...we need them...no bicycles, no electrics...We want the big fix...we want our SUV's...and by God, we'll have them.

Electric cars seem to be the answer...but, like corn ethanol...that power still has to come from somewhere...nuthin' is free...and that somewhere is going to most likely be from a coal fired electric generating plants...funny how no one pays any attention to that damn coal, do they?

Nukes...that's the answer whether we like it or not. Funny, I about peed myself to hear in the SOU speech direct from the Anointed One's blessed lips..."We must increase...expand, grow...Nuclear Power!" Wow! From the liberal of liberals...the liberals in Kaleefourneeya must have stomped a hole int heir living room floors. After all these years of smearing nukes...and now, "Gulp"...they have to embrace the satan of all Satans...I half expected the world to reverse rotation when O said that.

Well, at least now there is one thing...just one, mind you, me and that fellow from Kenya have in common...we both believe nuclear power is the last and best salvation for us humans for the foreseeable future.

It will forestall the inevitable fate of human kind on this planet for a few centuries, at least.

[JKD]

There's no one answer to our energy needs. It'll be a combination of lots of things. Nuclear's one of them, although it's one ridiculously expensive and messy way to boil water. Heliostat power plants will be able to do it without all the long term costs of storing a bunch of radioactive sh*t. Natural gas is looking promising as well.

Maybe I'm weird but I think wind farms look neat.

We need to rethink how we build our cities and think about transportation. 2/3 of the oil used in the US goes to transportation. Our cities should be laid out and scaled for people not cars. Owning one should be an available option not an absolute necessity.



Well, at least now there is one thing...just one, mind you, me and that fellow from Kenya have in common..

LOL birther alert. You had a pretty rational post goin' there for a minute.