PDA

View Full Version : It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt



chauncy republicans
02-06-2010, 12:32 PM
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-now-mathematically-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

A lot of people are very upset about the rapidly increasing U.S. national debt these days and they are demanding a solution. What they don't realize is that there simply is not a solution under the current U.S. financial system. It is now mathematically impossible for the U.S. government to pay off the U.S. national debt. You see, the truth is that the U.S. government now owes more dollars than actually exist. If the U.S. government went out today and took every single penny from every single American bank, business and taxpayer, they still would not be able to pay off the national debt. And if they did that, obviously American society would stop functioning because nobody would have any money to buy or sell anything. And the U.S. government would still be massively in debt.
So why doesn't the U.S. government just fire up the printing presses and print a bunch of money to pay off the debt?
Well, for one very simple reason.
That is not the way our system works.
You see, for more dollars to enter the system, the U.S. government has to go into more debt.
The U.S. government does not issue U.S. currency - the Federal Reserve does.
The Federal Reserve is a private bank owned and operated for profit by a very powerful group of elite international bankers.
If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.
It belongs to the Federal Reserve.
The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system.
Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve.
So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.
The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days).
So that is how the U.S. government gets more green pieces of paper called "U.S. dollars" to put into circulation. But by doing so, they get themselves into even more debt which they will owe even more interest on.
So every time the U.S. government does this, the national debt gets even bigger and the interest on that debt gets even bigger.
Are you starting to get the picture?
As you read this, the U.S. national debt is approximately 12 trillion dollars, although it is going up so rapidly that it is really hard to pin down an exact figure.
So how much money actually exists in the United States today?
Well, there are several ways to measure this.
The "M0" money supply is the total of all physical bills and currency, plus the money on hand in bank vaults and all of the deposits those banks have at reserve banks. As of mid-2009, the Federal Reserve said that this amount was about 908 billion dollars.
The "M1" money supply includes all of the currency in the "M0" money supply, along with all of the money held in checking accounts and other checkable accounts at banks, as well as all money contained in travelers' checks. According to the Federal Reserve (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/hist/h6hist1.txt), this totaled approximately 1.7 trillion dollars in December 2009, but not all of this money actually "exists" as we will see in a moment.
The "M2" money supply includes everything in the "M1" money supply plus most other savings accounts, money market accounts, retail money market mutual funds, and small denomination time deposits (certificates of deposit of under $100,000). According to the Federal Reserve (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/hist/h6hist1.txt), this totaled approximately 8.5 trillion dollars in December 2009, but once again, not all of this money actually "exists" as we will see in a moment.
The "M3" money supply includes everything in the "M2" money supply plus all other CDs (large time deposits and institutional money market mutual fund balances), deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements. The Federal Reserve does not keep track of M3 anymore, but according to ShadowStats.com (http://www.shadowstats.com/) it is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 trillion dollars. But again, not all of this "money" actually "exists" either.
So why doesn't it exist?
It is because our financial system is based on something called fractional reserve banking.
When you go over to your local bank and deposit $100, they do not keep your $100 in the bank. Instead, they keep only a small fraction of your money there at the bank and they lend out the rest to someone else. Then, if that person deposits the money that was just borrowed at the same bank, that bank can loan out most of that money once again. In this way, the amount of "money" quickly gets multiplied. But in reality, only $100 actually exists. The system works because we do not all run down to the bank and demand all of our money at the same time.
According to the New York Federal Reserve Bank (http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed45.html), fractional reserve banking can be explained this way....
"If the reserve requirement is 10%, for example, a bank that receives a $100 deposit may lend out $90 of that deposit. If the borrower then writes a check to someone who deposits the $90, the bank receiving that deposit can lend out $81. As the process continues, the banking system can expand the initial deposit of $100 into a maximum of $1,000 of money ($100+$90+81+$72.90+...=$1,000)."
So much of the "money" out there today is basically made up out of thin air.
In fact, most banks have no reserve requirements at all on savings deposits, CDs and certain kinds of money market accounts. Primarily, reserve requirements apply only to "transactions deposits" – essentially checking accounts.
The truth is that banks are freer today to dramatically "multiply" the amounts deposited with them than ever before. But all of this "multiplied" money is only on paper - it doesn't actually exist.
The point is that the broadest measures of the money supply (M2 and M3) vastly overstate how much "real money" actually exists in the system.
So if the U.S. government went out today and demanded every single dollar from all banks, businesses and individuals in the United States it would not be able to collect 14 trillion dollars (M3) or even 8.5 trillion dollars (M2) because those amounts are based on fractional reserve banking.
So the bottom line is this....
#1) If all money owned by all American banks, businesses and individuals was gathered up today and sent to the U.S. government, there would not be enough to pay off the U.S. national debt.
#2) The only way to create more money is to go into even more debt which makes the problem even worse.
You see, this is what the whole Federal Reserve System was designed to do. It was designed to slowly drain the massive wealth of the American people and transfer it to the elite international bankers.
It is a game that is designed so that the U.S. government cannot win. As soon as they create more money by borrowing it, the U.S. government owes more than what was created because of interest.
If you owe more money than ever was created you can never pay it back.
That means perpetual debt for as long as the system exists.
It is a system designed to force the U.S. government into ever-increasing amounts of debt because there is no escape.
We could solve this problem by shutting down the Federal Reserve and restoring the power to issue U.S. currency to the U.S. Congress (which is what the U.S. Constitution calls for). But the politicians in Washington D.C. are not about to do that.
So unless you are willing to fundamentally change the current system, you might as well quit complaining about the U.S. national debt because it is now mathematically impossible to pay it off.
***UPDATE***
It has been suggested that the same dollar can be used to pay off debt over and over - this is theoretically true as long as the dollar remains in the system.
For example, if the U.S. government gives China a dollar to pay off a debt, there is a good chance that the U.S. government will be able to acquire that dollar again and use it to pay off another debt.
However, this is not true when debt is retired with the Federal Reserve. In that case, money is actually removed from the system. In fact, because of the "money multiplier", when debt is retired with the Federal Reserve it can remove ten times that amount of money (and actually more, but let's not get too technical) from the system.
You see, fractional reserve banking works both ways. When $100 is introduced into the system, it can theoretically create $1000 as the example in the article above demonstrates. However, when that $100 is removed, it can have the opposite impact.
And considering the fact that the Federal Reserve "purchased" the vast majority of new U.S. government debt last year (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ponzi-scheme-the-federal-reserve-bought-approximately-80-percent-of-u-s-treasury-securities-issued-in-2009), we have got a real mess on our hands.
Even if a way could be figured out how to pay off all the debt we owe to foreign nations (such as China, Japan, etc.) it would still be mathematically impossible to pay off the debt that we owe to the Federal Reserve which is exploding so fast that it is hard to even keep track of.
Of course we could repudiate that debt and shut down the Federal Reserve, but very few in Washington D.C. have any interest in doing that.
It has also been suggested that instead of just using dollars to pay off the U.S. national debt, we could use the assets of the U.S. government to pay it off.
That is rather extreme, but let us consider that for a moment.
That total value of all physical assets in the United States, both publicly and privately owned, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 trillion dollars. Of course the idea of the U.S. government "owning" every single asset of the American people is repugnant to our entire way of life, but let's assume that for a moment.
According to the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government (http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/), which is an official United States government report, the total liabilities of the United States government, including future social security and medicare payments that the U.S. government is already committed to pay out, now exceed 65 TRILLION dollars. This amount is more than the entire GDP of the whole world.
In fact, there are other authors who have written that the actual figure for the future liabilities of the U.S. government should be much higher, but let's be conservative and go with 65 trillion for now.
So, if the U.S. government took control of all physical assets in the United States and sold them off, it could not even make enough money to pay for everything that the U.S. government is already on the hook for.
Ouch.
If you have not read the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government (http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/), you really should. Actually the 2009 report should be available very soon if it isn't already. If anyone knows if it is available, please let us know.
The truth is that the U.S. government is in much bigger financial trouble than we have been led to believe.
For example, according to the report (which remember is an official U.S. government report) the real U.S. budget deficit for 2008 was not 455 billion dollars. It was actually 5.1 trillion dollars.
So why the difference?
The CBO's 455 billion figure is based on cash accounting, while the 5.1 trillion figure in the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government is based on GAAP accounting. GAAP accounting is what is used by all the major firms on Wall Street and it is regarded as a much more accurate reflection of financial reality.
So needless to say, the United States is in a financial mess of unprecedented magnitude.
So what should we do? Does anyone have any suggestions?

Kit
02-06-2010, 01:01 PM
Abandon f**king ship!

Mackie
02-06-2010, 01:09 PM
Trash.
The US GDP 2009 ist more than 10 times higher than 1945.
All you need is to freeze the dept.

Civil Guard
02-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Abandon f**king ship!

X2

was about to post that when i saw the head lines...

Lt-Col A. Tack
02-06-2010, 01:36 PM
Okay, here's my little opinion on the matter.

The national debt will likely never be paid off because any attempt to freeze spending and cut enough government programs to accomplish this will likely endanger the career of many politicians.

Either you arouse the ire of an influential few or the ire of the masses. Everybody likes it when you can spend government money in a way that benefits them.

We need a few generations of politicians who are committed to the financial health and stability of this country. People who can face down spectators at political rallies and explain to them why they voted against a program the benefits them.

skyrock
02-06-2010, 02:14 PM
As long as the printing press works fine, no one want's to pay off the debt through hard working. The game can be played until the debt bubble busts, and ended in a heart stroke type collapse.

Redox
02-06-2010, 02:23 PM
Of course it can never been paid back, as well as the debt of all other countries. It was never ment to.

Our interest based monetary system is not sustainable in the long term, its quite simple mathematics actually. Nothing can grow exponentially forever. One can think of it as a giant Ponzi scheme. Public debt helps to protract the inevitable collapse. Still, the collapse will come as it happened many times before in history.

Btw this is not coming from me but I heard this several times from people who really know about this stuff. And if you think about it its quite logical.

I just found a link that might explain it a little better.
http://www.realitysandwich.com/?q=money_and_crisis_civilization

ggk
02-06-2010, 02:28 PM
a mere simple paragraph would be nice... this wall of word makes me dizzy

MaNiC
02-06-2010, 03:08 PM
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-now-mathematically-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

That was comical, thanks for sharing!

Barry Swampburger
02-06-2010, 11:26 PM
Sooooo.. I hear theres no gold at Ft. Knox anymore. Heard there hasn't been for a long time.

Why didn't we back up the dollar with gold?

void
02-06-2010, 11:31 PM
Sooooo.. I hear theres no gold at Ft. Knox anymore. Heard there hasn't been for a long time.

Why didn't we back up the dollar with gold?

A gold backed dollar (the gold standard) doesnt allow a government to create money out of thin air very easily, at least not without directly and immediately devaluing existing money in circulation. This is seen as a "bad thing" since supposedly it is too rigid for the modern world, a fiat currency is seen as a better alternative. Whether this is the case is debatable, maybe a fiat currency is technically more efficient, but its inherent flexibility may inevitably lead governments to abuse it.

deagle
02-07-2010, 12:05 AM
we need to make a literal money tree

i'im gonna water some coins i planted.

Eventine
02-07-2010, 01:27 AM
Declare bankruptcy and start over.

Sven Dufva
02-07-2010, 04:25 AM
Declare bankruptcy and start over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgRz3nSG7o

There is no other way for the US of A.

caksz
02-07-2010, 05:07 AM
if the usa ever split ... who will inherit the debt ?
russia inherit the debt when soviet fall ... right ?

HellToupee
02-07-2010, 05:24 AM
I'm guessing Washington , so just make sure your not in their power block :)

miguelencanarias
02-07-2010, 06:12 AM
I hope you like Chinese food...

void
02-07-2010, 06:14 AM
I hope you like Chinese food...

China owns a tiny percentage of the US debt, around 700 billion USD out of around 12 trillion USD total debt. Thats around 5%. Most of the debt is owned by US citizens.

NavyTimes
02-07-2010, 08:21 AM
Muther*******. Octavia even stole our national anthem!

CPL Trevoga
02-07-2010, 11:58 AM
if the usa ever split ... who will inherit the debt ?
russia inherit the debt when soviet fall ... right ?

Basically commies f*cked over every Soviet citizen. Overnight many peoples's life savings became worthless. That's how USSR got rid of the debt, but screwing their own citizens. External debt was very small, I think Russia paid it off already.

Lethal Lou
02-08-2010, 05:54 PM
The debt never has to be paid off . . . two easy options:

1) repudiate the debt. Start the 2nd Republic (the French are on their 5th if I recall correctly). The new government denies responsiblity for the prior government's debt. Keep all the assets/foreign currency/gold etc and print new money. If you wanna do business with the people of the country then you buy into the program - otherwise, enjoy life without spare parts from the US. This is not good for the rest of the world but causes minimal impact to the citzens of the US - whose vote counts "after the fact."

2) inflate out of the debt like the Wiemer republic. The previous option is far better for the population of the country than the second - - - wonder which one is more likely

Hollis
02-08-2010, 06:02 PM
The truth is that banks are freer today to dramatically "multiply" the amounts deposited with them than ever before. But all of this "multiplied" money is only on paper - it doesn't actually exist.
The point is that the broadest measures of the money supply (M2 and M3) vastly overstate how much "real money" actually exists in the system.

Some how it seems to me, this person does not understand what money is. Yes about 80% of the money stock is demand deposits, made by banks. They need to take some classes on Banking and economics.

void
02-08-2010, 06:14 PM
The debt never has to be paid off . . . two easy options:

1) repudiate the debt. Start the 2nd Republic (the French are on their 5th if I recall correctly). The new government denies responsiblity for the prior government's debt. Keep all the assets/foreign currency/gold etc and print new money. If you wanna do business with the people of the country then you buy into the program - otherwise, enjoy life without spare parts from the US. This is not good for the rest of the world but causes minimal impact to the citzens of the US - whose vote counts "after the fact."

2) inflate out of the debt like the Wiemer republic. The previous option is far better for the population of the country than the second - - - wonder which one is more likely

Option 1 isnt all that flash either. If you do that, your credit rating suddenly drops, the USD crashes, probably loses reserve currency status, and nobody will finance your debt unless under very high interest rates. That isnt really a good thing given the trade imbalance the US has. Imagine all imports suddenly getting VERY expensive, including oil. You could probably get away with it by putting up massive trade barriers and rebuilding local industry over a decade, but the problem remains oil, since that is a resource which the US cannot be self-sufficient in.

Lethal Lou
02-09-2010, 01:37 AM
If we were willing to be a bit ruthless the US would be self-sufficient in oil; we just have to expand the Western American co-prosperity sphere a bit . . .

void
02-09-2010, 02:29 AM
If we were willing to be a bit ruthless the US would be self-sufficient in oil; we just have to expand the Western American co-prosperity sphere a bit . . .

So what youre saying is that if the US defaulted on all of its debt (most of it is actually owned by US citizens, so that wont be really a good thing), and then put up massive trade barriers to kill imports, and also took some oil from certain neighbouring countries, all would be peachy? Hmmmm.
But anyway, much of the US debt is owned not by China or foreigners, but by US citizens. This manifests itself in the real world by kicking down the road various infrastructure projects and upkeep to future generations of Americans. So even if you defaulted on all foreign debt, you cant really default of domestic debt, you have to pay the piper in the future by having to pay for infrastructure projects that should have been done now.