Boeing 777 BA heathrow crash cause revealed

[timetraveller]

A serious flaw by the accounts that lead to the crash of the BA flight at Heathrow due to Ice in the fuel lines , why did boeing not have all the areas covered ..during development stage ..

It's highly risky selling passenger jets which the fuel lines can freeze up , though am bemused on why it took 2 years for the finalised report to be announced ...


http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/02/09/heathrow-crash-ice.html


A buildup of ice in the fuel lines of a Boeing 777 jet caused its crash-landing at London's Heathrow Airport two years ago, a British accident report concludes.
The findings of the government's Air Accident Investigation Branch confirmed a preliminary assessment it conducted in September 2008, after the British Airways jet made a crash-landing 300 metres short of the runway the previous Jan. 17.
Nineteen of the 152 people on board suffered minor injuries in the incident, which prompted U.S. and European regulators to impose modifications to the engines of some jets.
The fault that caused the buildup of the ice was not covered by plane safety requirements at the time.
"Certification requirements, with which the aircraft and engine fuel system had to comply, did not take account of this phenomenon as the risk was unrecognized at that time," the report found.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/02/09/heathrow-crash-ice.html#ixzz0f4mXaN7M

[happyslapper]

The ATC recording is really interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8505174.stm

Fantastic job by the pilot. Not least because I live right under the glide-path!

[sheikhness]

A serious flaw by the accounts that lead to the crash of the BA flight at Heathrow due to Ice in the fuel lines , why did boeing not have all the areas covered ..during development stage ..

It's highly risky selling passenger jets which the fuel lines can freeze up , though am bemused on why it took 2 years for the finalised report to be announced ...


http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/02/09/heathrow-crash-ice.html


A buildup of ice in the fuel lines of a Boeing 777 jet caused its crash-landing at London's Heathrow Airport two years ago, a British accident report concludes.
The findings of the government's Air Accident Investigation Branch confirmed a preliminary assessment it conducted in September 2008, after the British Airways jet made a crash-landing 300 metres short of the runway the previous Jan. 17.
Nineteen of the 152 people on board suffered minor injuries in the incident, which prompted U.S. and European regulators to impose modifications to the engines of some jets.
The fault that caused the buildup of the ice was not covered by plane safety requirements at the time.
"Certification requirements, with which the aircraft and engine fuel system had to comply, did not take account of this phenomenon as the risk was unrecognized at that time," the report found.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/02/09/heathrow-crash-ice.html#ixzz0f4mXaN7M


Well, the fact that there have only been two similar incidents with 777-200 tells me that it is most likely a very very isolated case. Out of millions take-off/landing cycles that 777 type makes each year, only two incidents is odds I am willing to take. Trent and RR (engine manufacturers) should address this issue ASAP, regardless.
I dread to think that if clogging of fuel oil heat exchange occurred earlier, say at 3000 feet, they would have been too low to troubleshoot and would have come down at the populated area.

[Azatavrear]

Don't they use Prist (a fuel additive) in Europe? I am still not sure where exactly this icing occured......engine fuel system or aircraft fuel system.

Here is the chain of events.

---------------





The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB), the lead agency in this investigation, has released several updates on the progress of the investigation, and has reported the following preliminary findings:

The flight was normal until the aircraft was on final approach and about two miles (3.2 km) from touchdown on runway 27L, when the aircraft was about 800 above the ground.
Engines initially responded to autothrust commands to increase thrust during final approach.
About seven seconds later, thrust on left engine reduced to similar levels.
The flight crew manually advanced throttles, but engines still did not respond.
Engines continued to produce thrust above flight idle but below the commanded level.
The aircraft touched down in a grassy area about 1,000 feet short of the runway.
There is no indication that the engines ingested either ice or birds, or that there was signficant amounts of water in the fuel.
The fuel temperature stayed signifcantly above its freezing point throughout the flight.
Recorded data indicate adequate fuel and autothrottle and engine controls performed as expected prior to, and after, reduction of thrust.
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b777.htm

Edit: Considering that the fuel remained above freezing throughout the flight which could only mean that the aircraft fuel heating system was operating normally, that much water in the fuel system can freeze in no time anywhere. Water and fuel don't mix too good and can collect from moisture or delivered while fueling.

[G-AWZT]

Don't they use Prist (a fuel additive) in Europe? I am still not sure where exactly this icing occured......engine fuel system or aircraft fuel system.

Here is the chain of events.

---------------




The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB), the lead agency in this investigation, has released several updates on the progress of the investigation, and has reported the following preliminary findings:

The flight was normal until the aircraft was on final approach and about two miles (3.2 km) from touchdown on runway 27L, when the aircraft was about 800 above the ground.
Engines initially responded to autothrust commands to increase thrust during final approach.
About seven seconds later, thrust on left engine reduced to similar levels.
The flight crew manually advanced throttles, but engines still did not respond.
Engines continued to produce thrust above flight idle but below the commanded level.
The aircraft touched down in a grassy area about 1,000 feet short of the runway.
There is no indication that the engines ingested either ice or birds, or that there was signficant amounts of water in the fuel.
The fuel temperature stayed signifcantly above its freezing point throughout the flight.
Recorded data indicate adequate fuel and autothrottle and engine controls performed as expected prior to, and after, reduction of thrust.
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b777.htm


I'm not sure when G-YMMM was delivered but the 777 has been in service since '95. A design "flaw" would've shown up within 3 years of introduction. If water was found in the tanks did anyone check out the fueling trucks in Beijing?


Just out of curiosity is there any relation cause wise to this accident and the Turkish 737-800 that bellyflopped on short finals to AMS Schipol?

[G-AWZT]

Not least because I live right under the glide-path!


You lucky guy. Being an airplane buff I've always wanted a house that was under the flightpath to a major airport especially Heathrow.

[Evolv5]

Interview with the pilot:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8505163.stm

[Azatavrear]

I'm not sure when G-YMMM was delivered but the 777 has been in service since '95. A design "flaw" would've shown up within 3 years of introduction. If water was found in the tanks did anyone check out the fueling trucks in Beijing?


Just out of curiosity is there any relation cause wise to this accident and the Turkish 737-800 that bellyflopped on short finals to AMS Schipol?

I agree, plus if it was a design flaw in the fuel system icing protection then it wouldn't just happen on approach. Sounds like too much water, ice breaking up upstream and getting into the engines fuel control unites or something. As far as fuel trucks they are suppose to be sumped daily.

I don't know much about that Turkish crash.

[Dling]

I am still not sure where exactly this icing occured......engine fuel system or aircraft fuel system.

Apperently it was in the FCOC/FOHE (fuel cooled oil cooler/ fuel oil head exchanger). Not sure where inside the unit though.


Remember this happened in January, any water in the tanks could of been frozen and damn well impossible to thaw out to remove from the tanks. And as usual, the media is just taking the report and running with it. The article is pretty vague as far as details go.

[LEGEND]

Heres more info and a photo of the problematic unit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38#NTSB_Urgent_Safety_Recommendation.2C_11_March_2009

[Azatavrear]

Heres more info and a photo of the problematic unit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38#NTSB_Urgent_Safety_Recommendation.2C_11_March_2009

Oh Ok..............I am surprised that these Rolls-Royce engines FOHE do not have a bypass feature in case of a clog with a warning pop-out button. You would think that would be the last place to get icing where the actual heating takes place on the engine side, wow.

G-AWZT, I found out about that Turkish airline Flight 1951 that crashed near Amsterdam Schiphol Airport. That was a case of a malfunctioning radio altimeter and improper pilot reaction time. These aircrafts are fitted with autothrottle system in conjunction to the flight autopilot. The radio altimeter tells the autopilot the height of the aircraft above terrain. During the approach and landing phase the throttles are automatically reduced for landing at certain altitude above the runway. In this case the radio altimeter was malfunctioning (it had even failed twice before this flight) and reduced the engine powers at a much higher altitude. The crew did not notice in time the reduction in airspeed and higher rate of descent and did not take immediate action to increase power to prevent a stall which caused the aircraft to drop like a rock. The flight crew and nine passengers were killed.
Boeing has since issued a bulletin to remind pilots of all 737 series and BBJ aircraft of the importance of monitoring airspeed and altitude, advising against the use of autopilot or autothrottle while landing in cases of radio altimeter discrepancies.

I personally am against using autopilot during the critical take-off/departure and approach/landing phases, especially when you are in VFR conditions. People become too complacent and reliant on them auto systems to a point that when shiet happens their instrument scan and reaction time goes out the door.

[Richie B]

You lucky guy. Being an airplane buff I've always wanted a house that was under the flightpath to a major airport especially Heathrow.

Just like Her Majesty in her little place in Windsor.

You want to live under a flight path - you have got to be joking.

Getting woken up at 04:30 by the early flights coming in is a right pain.

[sheikhness]

nah, after a month or so you don't notice it at all, becomes background noise that's all

[happyslapper]

Just like Her Majesty in her little place in Windsor.

You want to live under a flight path - you have got to be joking.

Getting woken up at 04:30 by the early flights coming in is a right pain.

As you can see, I live in the same town as HM. It's not like that at all. I've never been woken up by the aircraft, and the only one you ever noticed was Concorde, which was several times louder than everything else (but an marvel to behold which nobody ever seemed to grow tired of). You just don't notice.

[G-AWZT]

Just like Her Majesty in her little place in Windsor.

You want to live under a flight path - you have got to be joking.

Getting woken up at 04:30 by the early flights coming in is a right pain.


I've been a airplane buff since I was a kid. It's always been my dream to live under the FP to a big airport. The problem is today's jets aren't as noisy or sooty as the classics. I remember looking down at Windsor from the left hand side window seat on a Trident waaaaaay back. I'd love to hear VC-10s, 707s, 727s, DC-8s, DC-10s Tridents, BAC 1-11s and early model 747s today.
Unfortunately all you get now are boring A340, A320s, regional jets, and 737 New Generation aircraft.
Give me a RR Conway powered 707 anyday:)

[LEGEND]

Heh, looks like i'm not the only one who likes the noise of a turbojet on this forum:) You guys should definitely make pilgrimage to SXM, it doesnt get any better!

[Richie B]

You just don't notice.

You might not but I do.

Perhaps I'm just a light sleeper !

Richie