Secret Societies - modern jokes?

[Toddy1]

After hearing about the Knights of the Golden Circle recently it got me thinking about other socities in the modern world. Take for example the Knights Templar, Freemasons, Illuminati, Order of St Lazarus etc why are these previously illustrious socities so commonly looked down upon or joked about in the modern age. When did the transition from a society that was widely sought after turned into a joke that people laugh about and poke jibes at initiation rituals etc

I am assuming that a lot of these were military orders and as such their time passed with the ending of the crusades.

Anyone have any ideas?

[2495]

Modern society is all about 'Me'. Personal satisfaction, personal consumption and instant personal gratification. Most modern self absorbed people wouldn't know sharing / brotherhood if it walked down the street in neon glowing clothing and a ten feet high billboard proclaiming itself.

Then there was an effective campaign to paint people who did believe that secret societies / brotherhoods do exist as the lunatic fringe - this filtered down into the minds of the selfish man, who laughed because they were told to by peer pressure, which was backed up by their own personal selfishness. A double win.

Now - with those two factors in place, there is no space in the avergae consumers mind for any modern format for brotherhoods to exist, and even today we can see the sh1t storm the round table / masons and other orders get in media and other places, and their numbers are declining in many areas to boot and their general age group climbing higher (this is UK - I am unsure of world wide).

[sheikhness]

nah, gay *** became norm in modern society, thus no more need for mascarade

[Toddy1]

Modern society is all about 'Me'. Personal satisfaction, personal consumption and instant personal gratification. Most modern self absorbed people wouldn't know sharing / brotherhood if it walked down the street in neon glowing clothing and a ten feet high billboard proclaiming itself.

Then there was an effective campaign to paint people who did believe that secret societies / brotherhoods do exist as the lunatic fringe - this filtered down into the minds of the selfish man, who laughed because they were told to by peer pressure, which was backed up by their own personal selfishness. A double win.

Now - with those two factors in place, there is no space in the avergae consumers mind for any modern format for brotherhoods to exist, and even today we can see the sh1t storm the round table / masons and other orders get in media and other places, and their numbers are declining in many areas to boot and their general age group climbing higher (this is UK - I am unsure of world wide).

I understand that the age limit of members in the Masons here in Australia are also of an increasing age limit. What about the church? Are they responsible for the changing attitudes of what were previously their own dominions? Take scientology as an example, why is it considered a cult and not a religion? I know they are not exactly secret but they do follow into the same category.

I know the Knights Templar organisations world wide have been over run with re-enactment minded idiots (renactment has its place, trust me I love going to watch historical battles, very few here in Australia) but they seem to be a reason that serious members or memberships or enquiries are laughed at...and thanks to Dan brown everyone wanted to join a secret society, but I think they offer a lot more to the modern world than they are given credit for, and a lot of them have religious beliefs in place so not so sure why the church are against them publicly. Not sure if this attitude changes behind closed doors though.

[2495]

Scientology - have a read.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

Church? hell, the Clergy don't believe in God any more let alone be bothered about secret societies. The head of the CoE is a druid FFS... Knights Templars? well as you said, people know the swords and costums bit, but damn the rest. Hence why serious people are laughed at.

[PhillyMobster]

Naturally, the less you know about something, the more you distrust it, and as a result, ignorant people who know nothing of how these organizations work (like myself) tend to assume nefarious intentions, just because their actions are not a matter of public record. As a result, individuals are less likely to join one for fear of being associated with a stigma that while perhaps untrue, could be no less damaging to their future. So these groups, which might be little more than glorified social clubs, have suffered in recruitment and are dropping off the map at a rapid rate. The conspiracy theory crowd like Dan Brown doesn't help, either.

[Toddy1]

I find it fascinating as these societies when at their height were considered the elite of their time, Knights Templar, Hospitaler, St John etc were equivalent to the modern day SOF in many ways and it was considerted an honour for the select few who were able to enter their ranks. A lot of people "playing" knights and pretty much talking drivel has helped with the decline as well I am sure. I suppose there are a lot of organisations that we know nothing about and probably never will.

I was a bit pissed off that when I mentioned I wanted to be considered for acceptance into the masons I was laughed at...it's just hard to fathom how quickly they fell to the pressures of the masses as you guys have posted above.

Mind you the modern day actor was the medieval jester so I guess occupations change quite dramatically through history.

[baboon6]

nah, gay *** became norm in modern society, thus no more need for mascarade

Thank you I totally agree!

[Smoot]

IMO, I think it has to do with how the media has portrayed them in the past. This has led to distrust and, the many inclusions of them being part pf some grand conspiracies. Ultimately, most people in general are either intrigued or scared by the unknown and by their very existances of being "secret societies" makes many wonder. I mean, look at how many people, in America at least, believe CIA was behind everything from the JFK assassination to New Coke. Now, as far as them being joked about, I think that stems from them being considered part of these huge conspiracies. I believe most rational people know (I hope) that these stories are laughable.

[SBL]

I think it's a matter of secret societies losing their raison d'etre as people got wealthier and societies became more liberalized. Notions of class and exclusivity aren't too popular anymore (except when they're bought).

[junglejim]

The Masons in my neck of the woods are still pretty secretive and actually still filled with prominent people.

[boone]

as people got wealthier and societies became more liberalized. Notions of class and exclusivity aren't too popular anymore (except when they're bought).

Wat?
......... You're clearly high.

[SBL]

Wat?
......... You're clearly high.
I mean in the hereditary sense. Blue-bloodedness and class divisions are pretty much frowned upon by society at large. I think the general impression is that Freemasons, Illuminati, etc. are bastions for snotty old schoolers.

[rolls]

Secret Society? I think not.

Society of secrets, perhaps.

[Murray B]

It has always amazed me that the Masons are called a secret society. I'm not a member but they are certainly very well known to everybody. It seems to me that they are more of a very famous society with private rituals. As long as they don't break any laws it is nobody else's business what they do in their lodges. Here in Canada the Masons mark their lodges with their compass symbol and wear rings with the same symbol. They even post the symbol on their obitiuarys. The Masons seem awfully easy to find for a "secret society".

[baboon6]

It has always amazed me that the Masons are called a secret society. I'm not a member but they are certainly very well known to everybody. It seems to me that they are more of a very famous society with private rituals. As long as they don't break any laws it is nobody else's business what they do in their lodges. Here in Canada the Masons mark their lodges with their compass symbol and wear rings with the same symbol. They even post the symbol on their obitiuarys. The Masons seem awfully easy to find for a "secret society".

Yes I know plenty of them too. Seems like pretty harmless stuff.

[Toddy1]

You rightly pointed out the rituals are secret or not very well known. I use the term "secret" society loosely, as this is generally how they are described...it would be kind of hard to start a thread about a "secret" society that nobody knew about wouldn't it?

[deagle]

true secret societies are those you never hear about (they're a secret).

[Ought Six]

The Masons were once a secret society, but now are merely a society with a few secrets left. A lot of their lower-level rituals have been revealed.

[Toddy1]

The only reason the masons had secret handshakes was that masons travelled over europe carrying out work and not all of them could speak lots of different languages so a handshake was a non verbal way of saying "Hello I am a Mason who has been trained in his art to make sure that your church doesn't cave in two weeks after I leave"

[CaptMorgan68]

The Masons were once a secret society, but now are merely a society with a few secrets left. A lot of their lower-level rituals have been revealed.

there is really no secret to masonry.. they simply try to avoid controversy by being low profile and employing all kinds of symbolism the meaning of which is revealed to members based on their 'spiritual progress'..

European secret societies and masonry as well are more of a result of years of oppression against intellectual, scientific and artistic communities by Catholic church during the middle ages than anything else IMHO

and sometimes they are a good way of milking ppl and then at other times they are just a good reason to get together with some other crazies and do some crazy sh*t))))

[kevlar308]

nah, gay *** became norm in modern society, thus no more need for mascarade

funniest thing I've read all day.

[Toddy1]

funniest thing I've read all day.

You sir, must lead a life without laughter.

[Murray B]

true secret societies are those you never hear about (they're a secret).

Yes, and the Masons are no great secret. I find it interesting that President Teddy Roosevelt was a Mason and he said, "Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people."

Two things are obvious from this. First, there is actually an invisible government [note the singular] in the U.S. and it follows that they are not Masonic because TR remained a member until he died.

Think carefully about what President Roosevelt said.

[Toddy1]

Yes, and the Masons are no great secret. I find it interesting that President Teddy Roosevelt was a Mason and he said, "Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people."

Two things are obvious from this. First, there is actually an invisible government [note the singular] in the U.S. and it follows that they are not Masonic because TR remained a member until he died.

Think carefully about what President Roosevelt said.

Interesting choice of words in "enthroned" kind of indicative of monarchy?

[Niels]

Yes I know plenty of them too. Seems like pretty harmless stuff.
Until they use their old boy network for favours in important matters (judges, politicians, etc).

[pocoloco]

I find it fascinating as these societies when at their height were considered the elite of their time, Knights Templar, Hospitaler, St John etc

Well those societies, or actually orders, were not secret societies, in their time at least. They wore openly their emblems and their members could be distinguished quite clearly. Nowadays these our day versions of the before-mentioned orders... well, lets just say they are not what they used to be ;)


Mind you the modern day actor was the medieval jester so I guess occupations change quite dramatically through history.

Nitpicking but there were actors during medieval and classical times as well, jester might be considered just a sub-class of actor occupation.

Anyways, your title for this thread says it all, I think.

[Murray B]

Interesting choice of words in "enthroned" kind of indicative of monarchy?

Roosevelt made the comments around the beginning of the twentieth century mostly around New York. At that time the U.S. had been royalty free for over a century so I don't think he meant "enthroned" literally. Despite this I also expect he did not use the term accidentally. The U.S. government of the day was proceeding to break up trusts and do other things to reduce the influence of the "invisible government". The Canadian John Kenneth Galbraith, who was part of JFKs crew, said he admired the Republican TR the most of all the old presidents. Me too.

[custodes]

I'm not even gonna bite.


Oh God! It's overpowering me.......utt,umm,ahh.....

[custodes]

OK....Now that we have finished with the Secret Society Vs. Society With Secrets stuff purhaps we need to break it down further and discuss classification such as:

Cult/Death Cult
Research Groups
Fraternal Organizations
Service Clubs
Animal named Fraternal Groups
Secret Agendas/Political Groups

Plus....male,female,mixed,boys,girls etc.

[custodes]

At the top are:


Trilateral Commission
United Nations
Royal Institute of International Affairs
Club Roma
The so-called Bilderberg Group (no name?)
The Council on Foreign Relations

Also folks like Bohemian Grove and The Family.

[pocoloco]

OK....Now that we have finished with the Secret Society Vs. Society With Secrets stuff purhaps we need to break it down further and discuss classification such as:

Cult/Death Cult
Research Groups
Fraternal Organizations
Service Clubs
Animal named Fraternal Groups
Secret Agendas/Political Groups

Plus....male,female,mixed,boys,girls etc.

Hah, sounds like fun. Go on.

[tercio67]

The so-called Bilderburg Group (no name?)


They were named for the Bilderberg conference, wich took place at the Bilderberg hotel and conference center.

[custodes]

Next we have:

Masonic Groups who are(almost) as many as sands in the sea.
Independant Order of Odd Fellows
Improved Order of Red Man
Woodsmen of The World
Order of The Knights of Pythias
Knight of Columbus
Rosicrucians
Knights of Malta
Skull and Bones


Animal Groups:

Loyal Order of Moose
Benevolent of Protective Order of Elks
Fraternal Order of Eagles

Service Clubs like:

Rotary Int.
Lions Club Int.
Kiwanis Int.
Sertoma

Research Societies:

Scottish Rite Research
Philalethes Society
Phylaxis Society
Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076
Canonbury Masonic Research Center

Religious Groups:

Aum Shinrikyo/Aleph

Oh.....this list is gonna be trouble...working will advise. :-)

Not sure where these go:

Junta
Hellfire
The Philosophical Society
L.G.A.T. ?

Anyone care to discuss?

[custodes]

Freemasons/Knights Templar

The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite
York Rite
The Ancient Arabic Order of The Nobles of The Mystic Shrine (Shriners)
Order of The Eastern Star (F...AND MIXED))
Order of Amaranth (F)
Daughters of the Nile(F)
The White Shrine of Jerusalem(F)
The Secret Order Beauceant(F)
The Mystic Order of The Veiled Prophets of The Enchanted Realm of North America (The Grotto)
DeMolay Int. For Boys (teen)
Jobs' Daughters For Girls(teen)
The Int. Order of The Rainbow Girls (younger girls...I think)
Triangle Girls (younger I think)
Prince Hall Masons (African American Men and Women)
Queen Esther (African American Women??? Not sure about this..Prince Hall is mixed now but,have heard this phrase used.Local?)
National Sojourners (of interest to this forum)
The Ancient Egyptian Order of SCIOTS
The Tall Cedars of Lebanon of North America
High Twelve Int.

I think all of the research groups in my above post too.I'm sure there are dozens more and these are mostly American or Am/International. Many other countries involved.

[custodes]

Independant Order of Odd Fellows
Daughters of Rebekah(F)
Grand United Order of Odd Fellows (African American)

I think they have Junior Odd Fellows and Young Rebekahs but,not sure of exact titles.
Also higher degrees :

A.M.O.S.
Patriarchs Militant

[custodes]

Improved Order of Red Man

These guys claim to come from The Sons of Liberty.

Pocahontas (F)
Hiawathas(boys)
Anona (girls)

[Ulytau]

The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite

As i know strongest and most serious ones this society

[custodes]

The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite

As i know strongest and most serious ones this society


They are very strong in my neck of the woods. In Turkey too?

[Sand Man]

Secret Societies/ New World Order
by Milton William Cooper

History is replete with whispers of secret societies. Accounts of elders or priests who guarded the forbidden knowledge of ancient peoples. Prominent men, meeting in secret, who directed the course of civilization are recorded in the writings of all people.

The oldest is the Brotherhood of the Snake, also called the Brotherhood of the Dragon, and it still exists under many different names. It is clear that religion has always played a significant role in the course of these organizations. Communication with a higher source, often divine, is a familiar claim in all but a few.

The secrets of these groups are thought to be so profound that only a chosen, well-educated few are able to understand and use them. These men use their special knowledge for the benefit of all mankind. At least that is what they claim. How are we to know, since their knowledge and actions have been secret? Fortunately, some of it has become public knowledge.

I found it intriguing that in most, if not all, primitive tribal societies all of the adults are members. They are usually separated into male and female groups. The male usually dominates the culture. Surprisingly, this exactly resembles many civilized secret societies. This can only mean that the society is working not against established authority, but for it. In fact, could be said to actually be the established authority.

This would tend to remove the validity of any argument that all secret associations are dedicated to the "destruction of properly constituted authority." This can only apply, of course, where the secret society makes up the majority or entirety of any people which it affects. Only a very few fall into this category.

Secret societies in fact mirror many facets of ordinary life. There is always an exclusivity of membership, with the resultant importance attached to being or becoming a member. This is found in all human endeavors, even those which are not secret, such as football teams or country clubs. This exclusivity of membership is actually one of the secret societies' most powerful weapons. There is the use of signs, passwords and other tools. These have always performed valuable functions in man's organizations everywhere. The stated reason, almost always different from the real reason, for the societies' existence is important.

Read more... (http://www.illuminati-news.com/secret-societies-nwo.htm)

[Ulytau]

They are very strong in my neck of the woods. In Turkey too?

International,as i read in 18. century Mason Locas founded and had connection with Scottish Rite.

[custodes]

What are these folks after?

Friendship?
Power?
Control?
Revenge?
The power to control what happens after death?
Reincarnation?
The power to control the planet? And the masses?
Religious agendas?
Scientific agendas?
Knowledge?
Preparing for The End?

How will the world end? By Science or by God?

http://www.mille.org/

Are you a Rooster? Or an Owl?

[ferguson]

A basic Masonic premise is "To make better men out of good men."
They sponser and support a good many significant charities.

If there is a dark side, which I doubt, the average brother will never know anything about it-or support it.
Membership, sadly has become easier and less formal than in the past.

Most all fraternal organizations and others are suffering from dwindling memberships.
Young folks today have so many obligations and choices, it is rarer to focus on one acivity.

[Murray B]

A basic Masonic premise is "To make better men out of good men."
They sponser and support a good many significant charities.

It seems pretty clear to me here in Canada that the Masons were a major factor in the U.S.A. becoming a democracy. I find it strange that it is so easy to find out which presidents were Masons considering that is supposedly a "secret" society. Weren't there even some Masonic forts at the time of the Revolution. Those would be difficult to keep secret, Eh?

[Kit]

Mason societies started around the Enlightenment-era. Since a lot of monarchs were uncomfortable with liberalism, some Enlightenment thinkers were sticking their neck out. To share controversial ideas, they had to do so in a trusted secret place.

These Enlightenment thinkers also took fancy in the common man. They noticed various artisans and their guilds. These guilds were your proto-unions; so there was membership, hierarchy, and a degree of secrecy. The guild that stuck out to these thinkers was the stone masons. Then they modeled a club after the mason guilds, that included the special handshakes and traditions. That way, they could discuss ideas in secret, and form a brotherhood.

Then in Scotland, a rumor was planted that the Knights Templar ran to Scotland, and a Freemason Lodge there saw that they were descendants of the Knights. After that, Freemasonry ran with that theme. Freemasonry also exploded on the British Isles, which is why many of the Founding Fathers were masons.

Freemasons are a harmless fraternity strong Anglo-American connections. Nothing more.

[custodes]

Mason societies started around the Enlightenment-era. Since a lot of monarchs were uncomfortable with liberalism, some Enlightenment thinkers were sticking their neck out. To share controversial ideas, they had to do so in a trusted secret place.

These Enlightenment thinkers also took fancy in the common man. They noticed various artisans and their guilds. These guilds were your proto-unions; so there was membership, hierarchy, and a degree of secrecy. The guild that stuck out to these thinkers was the stone masons. Then they modeled a club after the mason guilds, that included the special handshakes and traditions. That way, they could discuss ideas in secret, and form a brotherhood.

Then in Scotland, a rumor was planted that the Knights Templar ran to Scotland, and a Freemason Lodge there saw that they were descendants of the Knights. After that, Freemasonry ran with that theme. Freemasonry also exploded on the British Isles, which is why many of the Founding Fathers were masons.

Freemasons are a harmless fraternity strong Anglo-American connections. Nothing more.

When the Templars were arrested on Friday,Feb 13 1307,not all the Knights were arrested.Many fled. Also,each individual Knight has a huge support system.These were not arrested.The Templars were also,involved in every business of the day.From farming to banking. These folks hid their relationships with the Templars but,never forgot. Secret handshakes were used to recognize each other.Their builders and stonemasons who were a craft that became a union, used them.

Under the influence of the King of France ,who basically appointed the Pope and owed the Templars large money debts,the Templars were outlawed in 1312.Many Knights who were not arrested fled to Switzerland.Switzerland,known for its banking today,has for a flag,a red field with a white cross on it.This is the reverse of the Templar flag,a white field with a red cross.

Some Knights fled to Portugal where it is thought they joined the Knights of Christ.Others fled to Scotland and Norse lands.Scotland was safe as the entire country was excommunicated.Where the great Templar fleet and their "treasure" went is not known.

England was anti-Templar.The Church distributed the Templar lands to itself in England and to the Knights of St. John Hospitaller(Knights of Malta today).

After the great plague swept through England many were killed off.There were not enough peasants around to farm the land.The feudal system was ending.Work was at a premium and workers could leave their empty towns and ask what they wanted for a days labor.The church(which was still Catholic at the time and owned most of the land) and the Crown tried to suspress the people back into the old ways.This caused the Peasants Revolt of 1381 also called Wat Tylers' Rebellion. Amusingly,while the peasants marched, all the lands of the Knights Hoptallers ' were attacked and the Knights killed. Coincidence? The Masons' were busy in-between the years of the fall and the rise of the present system of Masons.

When the modern Masons met for the first time at the Goose and Gridiron, June 24th 1717,the nobilty had once more joined up with the Stone Mason Guild. The Templar support groups and Knights were united again.

Kit..."Nothing more?" Masons are encouraged to "do things". Not told what to do. It could be revolution ( as in the "American' or "P2 Lodge" kind of way). It could be charity or religion or whatever.Masons are as varied as people themselves. They can be good or bad or in-between.And although,Religion and politics are not allowed to be discussed at Lodge meetings,afterwards,in their own little cells or groups,they often do.

[Russian_dude]

nah, gay *** became norm in modern society, thus no more need for mascarade

You laugh, but there is probably more then a grain of truth to it.

[Russian_dude]

All those "secret societies" are just a bunch of boring old men who need an excuse to not go home to the nagging wife. Secret societies cannot control the world because of human ego. There would be too much infighting about who would be the Leader. Look at communists. They quickly broke into different bickering camps. So did muslims, Christians etc. If one thinks that a bunch of billionaire industrialists would listen to and subordinate to another billionaire industrialist, one is very much mistaken.

[Russian_dude]

At the top are:


Trilateral Commission
United Nations
Royal Institute of International Affairs
Club Roma
The so-called Bilderberg Group (no name?)
The Council on Foreign Relations

Also folks like Bohemian Grove and The Family.


Untited Nation? It's a scam, where politically connected people from Third World get to not work, pay no tax and make at least 100,000k a year. My parents worked for it for a time. Nothing sinister goes on there.

[Murray B]

Untited Nation?...Nothing sinister goes on there.

Once the U.N. had become so corrupted that an SS man could run it I expect there must have been something sinister going on behind the scenes. Now the U.N. wants to make it so that nobody, except governments, police, and presumably criminals, can possess small arms. This is blatently anti-American because U.S. citizens have a constitutional right to posess such arms. It is sinister when a large and influential organization like the U.N. lobbies to remove citizens' rights. It is also very corrupt for the organization to accept government money and then use the money to lobby those same governments. It is a scam but I think it is far from harmless.

[custodes]

All those "secret societies" are just a bunch of boring old men who need an excuse to not go home to the nagging wife. Secret societies cannot control the world because of human ego. There would be too much infighting about who would be the Leader. Look at communists. They quickly broke into different bickering camps. So did muslims, Christians etc. If one thinks that a bunch of billionaire industrialists would listen to and subordinate to another billionaire industrialist, one is very much mistaken.

Infighting won't stop them from trying to control the world.So many different groups.So many different ideals.So many different Substitutes for the Tetragramaton. What are the 216 symbols?

Does Chabad agree with Dharmata Foundation? How about Scottish Rite whose most famous member is so at odds with Prince Hall? Is Aleph in cohoots with O.E.S. and Children of Yahweh? Do they all think 1000 years of Peace will come after Armegeddon,Ragnarok,The Second Coming? If so might they not work together for mutual ends and fight it out later? Does Bilderberg really want to bring a 6.5 billion person population down to 500,000,000 so it is easier to control? That later number,a cleared deck and then the fight for control?

[custodes]

Once the U.N. had become so corrupted that an SS man could run it I expect there must have been something sinister going on behind the scenes. Now the U.N. wants to make it so that nobody, except governments, police, and presumably criminals, can possess small arms. This is blatently anti-American because U.S. citizens have a constitutional right to posess such arms. It is sinister when a large and influential organization like the U.N. lobbies to remove citizens' rights. It is also very corrupt for the organization to accept government money and then use the money to lobby those same governments. It is a scam but I think it is far from harmless.


All the original members of the UN COUNCIL(without exception) are members of The Council on Foreign Relations.

With either God or Secret Societies "For those who believe,no proof is nessesary.For those who don't believe,no proof is possible."

Stuart Chase

[Ulytau]

When the Templars were arrested on Friday,Feb 13 1307

As i know why ''13'' and ''Friday'' are unlucky right?

[custodes]

That's the theory.Makes sense.

[Ulytau]

Btw as i check Turkish and international ones they are more than bunch of old men too '-'

[gaz]

Secret Societies/ New World Order
by Milton William Cooper


I've read his book 'Behold a pale horse'. He's a special kind of mental.

[Asheren]

I would say its because the real reason of such secret organisations no longer exists. Society developed ways to protect intelectual property in a different ways than not revealing it to the outsiders.
We are living in a much more liberal society in all terms including ***. Western society is also less and less spiritual there is no point to engage in any kind of mystical rites because those have no meaning for us.

[custodes]

I would say its because the real reason of such secret organisations no longer exists. Society developed ways to protect intelectual property in a different ways than not revealing it to the outsiders.
We are living in a much more liberal society in all terms including ***. Western society is also less and less spiritual there is no point to engage in any kind of mystical rites because those have no meaning for us.

Traditional religion may not be doing as well as it was in western society but,mysticism and magic are quite alive.From a young age we are inundated with horror movies and comics and stories about children with secret destinies. These are fed to certain children by their teachers and bus drivers and scout leaders etc. Stories like THE COLDEN COMPASS by Philip Pullman. Although,we are "too jaded and knowledgable" to reap benefits from our own religion we still have a need for spiritualism. We get this from secret societies who study all religions.

When a little older books like Don DeLillos' LIBRA,Umberto Ecos' THE NAME OF A ROSE might be encouraged. Teachers might encourage certain students with more esoteric religious ideas in classes and strange histories. Masons have several books of religion on their alters:Jewish books ,Christian,Hindu,Muslim,Buddhist etc.

And as for declining numbers among secret societies, there are 2 million Master Masons in the USA today.That number does not include women and kids groups and other secret societies nor the rest of the world.

[custodes]

And you might try(if you are up to it) Jorge Louis Borges' short story THE ALEPH or his book of shorts LABYRINTHS.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I mean in the hereditary sense. Blue-bloodedness and class divisions are pretty much frowned upon by society at large. I think the general impression is that Freemasons, Illuminati, etc. are bastions for snotty old schoolers.

Right. Even if class divisions have been removed legally they still exist.

The poor face more hurdles then the rich in gaining access to better government services such as education and health.

Look at a suburb made of working class and a suburb made up of rich people. Which suburb has better looking streets, better parks and playgrounds.

When was the last time a person from the working class actually went from working on a shop floor to be President/Prime Minister of a leading nation?

The Kennedies, Bush's, Clintons ring a bell?

Do you really think I'm going to be allowed to join the Australian Club?

I get seen by the police driving through a rich suburb at night I will get pulled over for a "random" breath test.

Where I live has been used as an excuse not to employ people.

class division do and will continue to exist until such a time as wealth is distributed evenly.

[gaz]

When was the last time a person from the working class actually went from working on a shop floor to be President/Prime Minister of a leading nation?

Margaret Thatcher was a greengrocers daughter. John Prescott was a waiter in the Merchant Navy and became Deputy Prime-Minister of Great Britain.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

As I said a "leading nation"

:)

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Besides Denis Thatcher has already recieved an MBE in 1945 and was an oil executive who payed for the old hags legal and political career.

[SBL]

As I said a "leading nation"

:)
Bill Clinton .

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

A Rhodes Scholar.........Married into a wealthy family.

[SBL]

A Rhodes Scholar.........Married into a wealthy family.
From a working class family in Arkansas. Rhodes Scholar by way of scholarships, and the Rodhams were hardly Rockafellers.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Do you seriously think he would still have become president without the support and networking that gaining a Rhodes Scholarship and marrying into a wealthy family provides? Even small business opens up more oppurtunities then coming from a family of factory workers.

[gaz]

Besides Denis Thatcher has already recieved an MBE in 1945 and was an oil executive who payed for the old hags legal and political career.

So what? You asked when the last time someone from the working class reached a position of power and you've been given multiple examples.

[SBL]

Do you seriously think he would still have become president without the support and networking that gaining a Rhodes Scholarship and marrying into a wealthy family provides? Even small business opens up more oppurtunities then coming from a family of factory workers.
So what? Doubtless being a Rhodes Scholar was instrumental, though it hardly negates his humble origins. Rather, it underscores it: hard work pays dividends. A concept you don't appear to be too familiar with.

And again, Hilliary's family was wealthy in comparison to whom? They weren't oligarchs by any stretch of the imagination.

[gaijinsamurai]

I'm by no means a fan of Bill Clinton, but there's no denying the fact that he is a very smart guy who became successful through hard work, determination, and a talent for communication. The fact that he comes from poor, working-class roots is all the more reason to have some respect for him.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

So what? You asked when the last time someone from the working class reached a position of power and you've been given multiple examples.

And I showed how the don't exactly fit the true definition of working class either.

SBL. As for me not grasping the concept of hard work. Righto. Whatever dude.

[offspring]

Traditional religion may not be doing as well as it was in western society but,mysticism and magic are quite alive.From a young age we are inundated with horror movies and comics and stories about children with secret destinies. These are fed to certain children by their teachers and bus drivers and scout leaders etc. Stories like THE COLDEN COMPASS by Philip Pullman. Although,we are "too jaded and knowledgable" to reap benefits from our own religion we still have a need for spiritualism. We get this from secret societies who study all religions.

When a little older books like Don DeLillos' LIBRA,Umberto Ecos' THE NAME OF A ROSE might be encouraged. Teachers might encourage certain students with more esoteric religious ideas in classes and strange histories. Masons have several books of religion on their alters:Jewish books ,Christian,Hindu,Muslim,Buddhist etc.

And as for declining numbers among secret societies, there are 2 million Master Masons in the USA today.That number does not include women and kids groups and other secret societies nor the rest of the world.



I'm a master mason and former demolay and as far as I know we are more of a fraternity than a secret society

[gaz]

And I showed how the don't exactly fit the true definition of working class either.

Not really, you said that Denis was an MBE suggesting he had some sort of upper class background, you failed to mention that he was made an MBE for his service in the Army and paying for her legal training is irrelevant, she still had to pass the barrister training herself - what does it matter if her husband paid for it or if a loan did? Nobody else did the hard work for her. As for paying for her political career, I'd be interested to see a source for that.
Also, you neglected to say anything about Prescott.

[SBL]

And I showed how the don't exactly fit the true definition of working class either.

Ah, but they do.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Righto so an oil executive (Mr Thatcher) and the daughter of a bloke who owns/runs a company with 200 employees is working class then ****.

[Asheren]

Traditional religion may not be doing as well as it was in western society but,mysticism and magic are quite alive.From a young age we are inundated with horror movies and comics and stories about children with secret destinies. These are fed to certain children by their teachers and bus drivers and scout leaders etc. Stories like THE COLDEN COMPASS by Philip Pullman. Although,we are "too jaded and knowledgable" to reap benefits from our own religion we still have a need for spiritualism. We get this from secret societies who study all religions.

When a little older books like Don DeLillos' LIBRA,Umberto Ecos' THE NAME OF A ROSE might be encouraged. Teachers might encourage certain students with more esoteric religious ideas in classes and strange histories. Masons have several books of religion on their alters:Jewish books ,Christian,Hindu,Muslim,Buddhist etc.

And as for declining numbers among secret societies, there are 2 million Master Masons in the USA today.That number does not include women and kids groups and other secret societies nor the rest of the world.

Religions are faling behind because faith is unable to adopt rapidly enough. At last not in a way averange beliver would buy without doubt. Groups like secret societies are also ****e to this. Even scientology movment that is quite new and adjusted to a current version of "spirituality" already splintered in a number of factions.

[CMNot]

class division do and will continue to exist until such a time as wealth is distributed evenly.

No.

Money does not buy class.

Never has. Never will.

[gaz]

Righto so an oil executive (Mr Thatcher) and the daughter of a bloke who owns/runs a company with 200 employees is working class then ****.

But we're not even talking about Denis, we're talking about his wife. Margaret Thatcher was the daughter of a guy who owned a couple of shops and she had to win scholarships to attend school and university, also you still haven't backed up your claim that her political career was paid for by her husband.

I don't even particularly like the woman but she got to where she did through hard work and determination, unless you can prove otherwise I'm going to leave the conversation.

[custodes]

But,really guys......are Margaret and Bill in secret societies? p-)I know Hillary and Barrack were invited to and attended the last American Bilderberg meeting. And George W. is Skull and Bones.George and Jimmy are Trilateral. Gerald,I think,was a Mason.Vernon,on Bills' staff,is a Bilderberger.Lyndon was Council on Foreign Relations.

All the Republicans are invited to The Grove and some of the Dems.

Richard hated it there. :roll:

[custodes]

Here are some links of interest to secret societies and cults etc...

For all your religious and cult news good or bad:

http://religionnewsblog.com/ Catch up on Scientology and Aum Shinrykio

A Brief History of The Apocalypse:

http://www.abhota.info/

And for you Skylark fans....A HYPERTEXT BOOK OF HOURS:

http://medievalist.net/ Click on "Hypertext Book of Hours"

[Russian_dude]

Traditional religion may not be doing as well as it was in western society but,mysticism and magic are quite alive.From a young age we are inundated with horror movies and comics and stories about children with secret destinies. These are fed to certain children by their teachers and bus drivers and scout leaders etc. Stories like THE COLDEN COMPASS by Philip Pullman. Although,we are "too jaded and knowledgable" to reap benefits from our own religion we still have a need for spiritualism. We get this from secret societies who study all religions.

When a little older books like Don DeLillos' LIBRA,Umberto Ecos' THE NAME OF A ROSE might be encouraged. Teachers might encourage certain students with more esoteric religious ideas in classes and strange histories. Masons have several books of religion on their alters:Jewish books ,Christian,Hindu,Muslim,Buddhist etc.

And as for declining numbers among secret societies, there are 2 million Master Masons in the USA today.That number does not include women and kids groups and other secret societies nor the rest of the world.

When there are that many members... it's not a secret society, no more then people who are Club Price members. It gives no special priviliges either.

Wester countries are the ultimate secret societies. "He who is born an Englishmam has won the lottery of Life" and all that.

[custodes]

When there are that many members... it's not a secret society, no more then people who are Club Price members. It gives no special priviliges either.

Wester countries are the ultimate secret societies. "He who is born an Englishmam has won the lottery of Life" and all that.

I notice Russian Dude is from Switzerland.The red field with the white cross. :-)

[custodes]

I notice a lot of secret societies do charity work.I've met dudes from The Improved Order of Red Men a few times and they seem like alright guys. This,I think is a uniquely American secret society. They have Flag recognition in their creed and are involved in The Faith of Our Fathers Chapel at Valley Forge and also work at Arlington. http://redmen.org/

There is a Masonic Service Society that does work for the VA too.It seems secret societies are heavily involved with our veterans and warriors.

"What we do for ourselves dies with us.What we do for others and the world,remains and is immortal."

Albert Pines

[Toddy1]

I notice a lot of secret societies do charity work.I've met dudes from The Improved Order of Red Men a few times and they seem like alright guys. This,I think is a uniquely American secret society. They have Flag recognition in their creed and are involved in The Faith of Our Fathers Chapel at Valley Forge and also work at Arlington. http://redmen.org/

There is a Masonic Service Society that does work for the VA too.It seems secret societies are heavily involved with our veterans and warriors.

"What we do for ourselves dies with us.What we do for others and the world,remains and is immortal."

Albert Pines

The Charity work would be flow on effect from the previous monastic orders and given they were also military orders this would probably indicate the association with veterens etc

[custodes]

The Charity work would be flow on effect from the previous monastic orders and given they were also military orders this would probably indicate the association with veterens etc

Good point Toddy. Knights Templar=warrior, monks.
Knights of St. John of Malta=warrior,monks
Cistertions=viking monks?

[Toddy1]

Good point Toddy. Knights Templar=warrior, monks.
Knights of St. John of Malta=warrior,monks
Cistertions=viking monks?

Not too mention the money laundering side, all donations to charities are tax deductable :P

[custodes]

Black Hebrew Israelites
Southern Poverty Law Center
Opus Dei
Neturei Karta
B'Nai Brith and the ADL
Chabad
Pacific-Union Club
Rancheros Visitdores
S-1 Uranium Committee
World Economic Forum
Allen & Co Sun Valley Conference
Nation of Yaweh
Messianic Jews
The Beggers' Benison
Phoenix Society
Order of Friars of St. Francis of Wycombe

[Toddy1]

Don't forget the Order of St Lazarus.

Given that in the world today there are numerous groups for seperate religions, does anyone think there is a place for returning to a militarised Christian order? That way Al Q and proposed Christian Order could match each other on the field without a "government" having to take direct responsibility. It would let the governments remove their standing armies and keep the general populace happy.

[Bro Jangles]

Next we have:

Masonic Groups who are(almost) as many as sands in the sea.
Independant Order of Odd Fellows
Improved Order of Red Man
Woodsmen of The World
Order of The Knights of Pythias
Knight of Columbus
Rosicrucians
Knights of Malta
Skull and Bones


Animal Groups:

Loyal Order of Moose
Benevolent of Protective Order of Elks
Fraternal Order of Eagles

Service Clubs like:

Rotary Int.
Lions Club Int.
Kiwanis Int.
Sertoma

Research Societies:

Scottish Rite Research
Philalethes Society
Phylaxis Society
Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076
Canonbury Masonic Research Center

Religious Groups:

Aum Shinrikyo/Aleph

Oh.....this list is gonna be trouble...working will advise. :-)

Not sure where these go:

Junta
Hellfire
The Philosophical Society
L.G.A.T. ?

Anyone care to discuss?

K of C is not a secret society, just have secret tradition/ceremony. but activities are no secret. modern Knights are based around community service and fraternity. the orgin of the Knights was to protect irish catholic widows in late 1800 new england. it was set up to support them financially. this turned into a very strong insurance agency that is around today. no secret.

[budgie]

I have an excellent book called Secret Societies, by Jonathan Reynolds that addresses the very question of the efficacy of secret societies. It covers some genuine historical badassery like the Assassins and Templars, but also frauds like the Priory of Sion, Illuminati, and organized crime gangs such as the Mafia and Yakuza. Brief, but informative. Most modern ones, are harmless 'clubs'.

[custodes]

As I understand it,this is an underground(yes...hence the name) *** group first stared in Canada. It has spread to the USA and beyond. Everything goes.

[custodes]

Thule
Nibiru
Odessa
The Vril Society...http://www.echoesofenoch.com/Musium13%20vril_society.htm

[custodes]

Imagine working for a utility and being in the military and also a secret society, as well as, working in a company that spies on us using utilities as their info gathering forum.There are companies now(for the last ten years) who plant spies in things like the cable company,the power company,the telephone company,banking,farming, credit cards,gyms etc...and steals the information to give it to the FBI supposibly.These are civilian spies.

What if these spies also work for other groups? Like OES or ADL? Whose oath comes first? Can a person who takes many oaths be trusted with this info?

CACI "Ever Vigilant

SAIC "From Science To Solutions"

Infraguard " Partnership For America" http://www.infragard.net/

[custodes]

Independent Order of Odd Fellows: http://ioof.org/

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The League of Frontiersmen might have fell apart recently but its was sort of "men of Kent" with secrets and guns.

[custodes]

I saw a TV show last night which featured a group called the Clampers. They were from California and claimed they started around the gold rush times.They were Mountain Charlie Chapter and were awarding a restaurant a plaque.The plaque used the phrases "E Clampus Vitus" and "Right Wrongs Nobody." They also did a fraternal like cheer:

"Say the Brethern?"

Response ...all together: "Satisfactory" or "Satisfactory and so recorded."

This was in response to the food served and service and management,I think.

[custodes]

According to this site they are ,as well as other Europeans and Americans.All the LOST TRIBES OF ISREAL.

http://www.hebroots.org/

Click on Babylon/One World Government and then New World Order and find articles on Trilateral and CFR.