Herrmannek, here is question for you

[Abbyy]

Does in Georgia now democracy or not?

[hank]

Does in Georgia now democracy or not?

Yeah, popularly elected Republican Governor named Sonny Perdue. In fact the primaries for state elections were yesterday. I ws not able to vote in teh primary b/c I registered after moving to Georgia too late. But I'm ready for November.

Here is a picture of Sonny helpinga little girl with the Three R's.

http://www.gov.state.ga.us/images/polaroid2.jpg

hank

[Abbyy]

Here is a picture of Sonny helpinga little girl with the Three R's.

http://www.gov.state.ga.us/images/polaroid2.jpg

hank

rofl rofl rofl
Sorry man. I spoke about Georgia on Caucasus :)

[hank]

Here is a picture of Sonny helpinga little girl with the Three R's.

http://www.gov.state.ga.us/images/polaroid2.jpg

hank

rofl rofl rofl
Sorry man. I spoke about Georgia on Caucasus :)

Its not a Russiacentric world over here buddy. Get used to it.

hank

[Abbyy]

Its not a Russiacentric world over here buddy. Get used to it.

hank

It's not US-centric either. Almost nobody here in Europe cares about who is governors of your states (excluding Arnie for sure :) )

[mack pl]

Its not a Russiacentric world over here buddy. Get used to it.

hank

It's not US-centric either. Almost nobody here in Europe cares about who is governors of your states (excluding Arnie for sure :) )
hehe, its true....

anyway, do you think Georgia(not this in USA,lol) isn't democratic? Well, maybe its not perfect democracy, but Im sure they are more democratic than before(when Shewardnadze was president).....ohh, well, this question was to Herman, not to me :roll:

regards :)

[Herrmannek]

I don't know where you are heading... But everything seems there is democracy in Georgia :)

[Abbyy]

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
You're answering as i expected: "Nobody on the west complains about democracy in Georgia so i think there is everything is ok".

Wrong thoughts. This evening i'll give you real picture which have nothing with democracy. Ahhh, poor Georgians. :(

[He219]

Does in Georgia now democracy or not?
Ethnicity/race: Georgian 70.1%, Armenian 8.1%, Russian 6.3%, Azeri 5.7%, Ossetian 3%, Abkhaz 1.8%, other 5%


Massive demonstrations began after the preliminary results of the Nov. 2, 2003, parliamentary elections. The opposition party (and international monitors) claimed that the elections were rigged in favor of Shevardnadze and the political parties who support him. After more than three weeks of angry protests, Shevardnadze resigned on Nov. 30. Mikhail Saakashvili, the key opposition leader, compared the turn of events to Czechoslovakia’s velvet revolution. In Jan. 2004 presidential elections, Saakashvili won in a landslide. The 36-year-old lawyer built his reputation as a reformer committed to ending corruption.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107564.html



Following the seriously flawed 2003 parliamentary elections, public pressure lead to resignation of Shevardnadze. Nino Anzoris asuli Burdzhanadze of the Burdzhanadze-Demokratiuli Aliansi (Burdzhanadze-Democratic Alliance, BDA) assumes the duties of interim president and a transition government is formed. Zurab Besarionis dze Zhvania of the UD becomes prime minister. The 2004 presidential elections lead to a landslide victory by Mikheil Nikolozis dze Saakashvili of the New National Movement.
http://www.electionworld.org/georgia.htm


You think not?
p-)

[ArtofPain]

Its not a Russiacentric world over here buddy. Get used to it.

hank

It's not US-centric either. Almost nobody here in Europe cares about who is governors of your states (excluding Arnie for sure :) )
Bingo!!!

[Herrmannek]

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
You're answering as i expected: "Nobody on the west complains about democracy in Georgia so i think there is everything is ok".

Wrong thoughts. This evening i'll give you real picture which have nothing with democracy. Ahhh, poor Georgians. :(

I knew you will say that :) ...

[Zapp Brannigan]

Republic of Georgia:

Population: 4,693,892 (July 2004 estimate)
Gross Domestic Product: $12.18 billion (2003 estimate)

State of Georgia:

Population: 8,684,715 (2003 estimate)
Gross State Product: $299.87 billion (2001 estimate)

That said, I couldn't care less who the governor of Georgia is. ;)

[Viktor_s]

Good question, but just like in anything else there is a counter part... i.e. Does Georgia have no democracy? If not what does it have?

So i guess what it has is closer to democracy than anything else.

[Abbyy]

Now Georgia in the process of great property redistribution. Bussinessmen, escpecially who worked with previous governoments of Georgia and Adjaria deliberately thrown into prison and they can be liberated any time by paying ransom. Very interesting isn't it?

Media which now become independent (which were sided with previous authorities) opressed. Adjaria TV closed and all equipment being transfered to pro-Saakashvili TV stations. Media connected with new governoment fluorish and intensively undoubtedly and without any criticizm support Saakashvili.

Anti-Russian histeria are being created in media. They already forgot that we helped them ot displace Shvarnadze and to return Adjaria into Georgia avoiding military conflict. Now Saakashvili blame us that we want war with Georgia Ha ha. New Caucasian Hitler.

Georgia aggresively violates OSCE controlled peace threaties in South Ossetia.

Behind slogans of restoring Greater Georgia and threats from Russia democracy is not the first in the priority list of new governoment.

[Herrmannek]

Ha :). You know that bithin at Russia is more interesting than at other not so important countries :)

[Abbyy]

Ha :). You know that bithin at Russia is more interesting than at other not so important countries :)

Hmm. Why are you not sleeping man?

Unfortunately for you man who told me about ransoms from bussinessmen in Georgia is initially anti-Russian and pro-Georgian and he was shoked a lot when he faced this thing from own "democratic" government.

[Abbyy]

Does in Georgia now democracy or not?
Ethnicity/race: Georgian 70.1%, Armenian 8.1%, Russian 6.3%, Azeri 5.7%, Ossetian 3%, Abkhaz 1.8%, other 5%


Massive demonstrations began after the preliminary results of the Nov. 2, 2003, parliamentary elections. The opposition party (and international monitors) claimed that the elections were rigged in favor of Shevardnadze and the political parties who support him. After more than three weeks of angry protests, Shevardnadze resigned on Nov. 30. Mikhail Saakashvili, the key opposition leader, compared the turn of events to Czechoslovakia’s velvet revolution. In Jan. 2004 presidential elections, Saakashvili won in a landslide. The 36-year-old lawyer built his reputation as a reformer committed to ending corruption.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107564.html



Following the seriously flawed 2003 parliamentary elections, public pressure lead to resignation of Shevardnadze. Nino Anzoris asuli Burdzhanadze of the Burdzhanadze-Demokratiuli Aliansi (Burdzhanadze-Democratic Alliance, BDA) assumes the duties of interim president and a transition government is formed. Zurab Besarionis dze Zhvania of the UD becomes prime minister. The 2004 presidential elections lead to a landslide victory by Mikheil Nikolozis dze Saakashvili of the New National Movement.
http://www.electionworld.org/georgia.htm


You think not?
p-)

Look what i wrote to Herrmannek.
Someone on the west wrote that it is ok and you think it is ok.
People i know in Tbilisi are writing me another picture of what happening.

Yes, Saakashvili have support of his nation because nation hope he can restore their country. But unfortunately Saakashvili uses this support in the way Hitler did.

[Herrmannek]

Ha :). You know that bithin at Russia is more interesting than at other not so important countries :)

Hmm. Why are you not sleeping man?

Unfortunately for you man who told me about ransoms from bussinessmen in Georgia is initially anti-Russian and pro-Georgian and he was shoked a lot when he faced this thing from own "democratic" government.

I compile kernel....it will be fifth time now, damn computer and linux... I don't know mutch about curent georgia situation because it seemed(based on media coverage) everything is okey after "revolution"...

[Abbyy]

I don't know mutch about curent georgia situation because it seemed(based on media coverage) everything is okey after "revolution"...

That's why i don't believe in what western media says - they have very interesting ways to choose what to report and what - not. I suppose they BSed and thus do not consider them as ultimate source of information.

As for linux, man i recomend you to get married and to born a child. You'll be sitting at nights all like now but your life will become much more interesting rofl rofl rofl

Oh my god, how i'm tired.... p-)

[Herrmannek]

As for linux, man i recomend you to get married and to born a child. You'll be sitting at nights all like now but your life will become much more interesting rofl rofl rofl

Oh my god, how i'm tired.... p-)

You sound like happy father... Yust buy ear plugs plug them in and go sleep...

[Abbyy]

As for linux, man i recomend you to get married and to born a child. You'll be sitting at nights all like now but your life will become much more interesting rofl rofl rofl

Oh my god, how i'm tired.... p-)

You sound like happy father... Yust buy ear plugs plug them in and go sleep...

Need to feed this little monster anyway. Or even plugs willn't be able to help :)

Look, October 2003 pic


http://www.game.vsi.ru/cs/gallery/albums/userpics/10009/DSC01385_small.jpg

[Herrmannek]

NIce fella ... woot

[ArtofPain]

Abbyy, nice boy!!!!

[Abbyy]

Abbyy, nice boy!!!!

Screw you man! This is girl! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ну правда в таком возрасте не различишь. :)

Let's back to topic. There is a big question about democracy presence in Georgia right now.

[perdurabo]

Abbyy congratulations!
and yeah its hard to recognize in this age :D
Lets back to topic so what is situation in Georgia?

[Herrmannek]

Abbyy, nice boy!!!!

Screw you man! This is girl! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ну правда в таком возрасте не различишь. :)

Let's back to topic. There is a big question about democracy presence in Georgia right now.

I aslo thought its a boy... but what you expect after sixth compilation of fukkin kernel without result at 2 am.. damn I'm stupid... Anybody know why my intel 82557/8/9 network adapter isn't found by kernel even i marked to compile in, if there is any other option I should mark? i'm workin on kernel 2.4.19?

[Abbyy]

Abbyy congratulations!
and yeah its hard to recognize in this age :D
Lets back to topic so what is situation in Georgia?

Georgia heating up situation in Ossetia. From one side it is very strange because peace here was already more than for 10 years, there was no any need to guard local Georgian population like Serbian in Kosovo and South Ossetia have stable economical relations with Georgia.

But now conflict seems to start again and Georgian authorities are completely responsible for this.

For first look it is stupid. But if you take your second look at Georgian economy shape you'll understand that Saakashvili needs small victorious war right now to distract attention of own people from situation in economy and his inability to deal with this situation.

[mack pl]

Abbyy congratulations!
and yeah its hard to recognize in this age :D
Lets back to topic so what is situation in Georgia?
yup, Congrats man(hmmm maybe some new thread in Off-topic??)hahaha.

So, If Georgia isn't democratic state- wtf is that?You compare Salikashwili methods to Hitler :roll: Why? Explanation please :)

pozdrawiam :)

[mack pl]

Abbyy congratulations!
and yeah its hard to recognize in this age :D
Lets back to topic so what is situation in Georgia?

Georgia heating up situation in Ossetia. From one side it is very strange because peace here was already more than for 10 years, there was no any need to guard local Georgian population like Serbian in Kosovo and South Ossetia have stable economical relations with Georgia.

But now conflict seems to start again and Georgian authorities are completely responsible for this.

For first look it is stupid. But if you take your second look at Georgian economy shape you'll understand that Saakashvili needs small victorious war right now to distract attention of own people from situation in economy and his inability to deal with this situation.
interesting :|

But, If Georgia will trying to get back Abchazja(I spell it in polish) for example it will be bad, yeah? Maybe Im wrong but Abchazja is part of Georgia(they are separatists)....IMO Saalikashwili doing what he should to do(vide Abashydze in Adżaria)...but maybe Im wrong.... :roll:

[Abbyy]

Here some info for you.

Georgians nationality are mostly Christians. Adjaria populated by Muslim Georgians. There wasn't any wars between central Georgia and Adjaria. Just some tensions between leaders. So from all points of view Russia did right job by helping to return Adjaria under Georgian rule.

South Ossetia always was populated by Ossetian majority with some presence of Georgians. There was the war between Georgia and Ossetia in 1991-1992 when Georgia were lead by Zviad Gamsakhurdia. Later there was civil war in Georgia between followers of Gamsakhurdia and next Georgian president - Shevarnadze.

Ossetians historically always been allies of Georgians and responsibility for starting this war is completely on Gamsakhurdia's people. That's very bad that new authorities following the same bloody way.

Abkhazia - escpecially difficult case for all sides. Abkhazians were minority in Abkhazia (about 17%) and during war for independence with support from Russia Abkhazians displaced whole Georgian population and most of them became refugees in Georgia (Good parallels with Kosovo-Serbia-US case).

And contrary to Ossetia where Georgians live freely Abkhazia is almost one-nationality formation now.

[mack pl]

Thx , heh, its almost Balkans situation-many nations, many problems etc. :|

well, I knw about everything what did you write, but ....ehh..nevermind....

I hope Saalikashwili will be peacful president, not another "warrior" ;)

pozdrawiam

[perdurabo]

About economics Sakashwili asked Balcerowicz for help but i dont know the resaults, If balcer goes there their economics should go in right direction.
Thanks for your info, maybe you could send sometimes post in general discusion about situation there?

[lekomin]

Now Georgia in the process of great property redistribution. Bussinessmen, escpecially who worked with previous governoments of Georgia and Adjaria deliberately thrown into prison and they can be liberated any time by paying ransom. Very interesting isn't it?

Media which now become independent (which were sided with previous authorities) opressed. Adjaria TV closed and all equipment being transfered to pro-Saakashvili TV stations. Media connected with new governoment fluorish and intensively undoubtedly and without any criticizm support Saakashvili.

Anti-Russian histeria are being created in media. They already forgot that we helped them ot displace Shvarnadze and to return Adjaria into Georgia avoiding military conflict. Now Saakashvili blame us that we want war with Georgia Ha ha. New Caucasian Hitler.

Georgia aggresively violates OSCE controlled peace threaties in South Ossetia.

Behind slogans of restoring Greater Georgia and threats from Russia democracy is not the first in the priority list of new governoment.

Well you sound like old communist propaganda.. you are the only true "peace-loving" nation and everybody is against you :)

First of all calling Russia "a democracy" as you did and listing "Greater Georgia" as a threat to it can be compared to "Greater Tajwan" being a threat to "democratic China".

Secondly, Georgia as a sovereign contry has the right to choose what foreign military forces (if any) could station on its sovereign teritory. How come the Russians have promised to evacuate their bases from Georgia and actually signed a Treaty obliging them to do exactly that. As the deadline expired the Russians just said "%#%#%# the treaty, we will not leave". Imagine something like this happening in Russia.. foreign troops declining the order to leave, an order Georgia had the right to issue, had it not?

Thirdly, Russia is losing its grip on the whole Caucasus region. Georgia is going west in its political and military objective. It has the whole support of the USA and EU. Oil-rich countries in the vicinity are awarding oil contracts to westers oil companies.. And I must say this is much better and cheaper oil then Siberian fields oil. As a repercusion Russia gives support to South Ossetia, a region which is a part of Georgia (u don't dispute that right?). There is no peace treaty in south ossetia.. OSCE is there to monitor the situation, and prevent bloodshed as it happened during the Shevartnadze times.

As for the "free-media". You must be equally shocked by the complete lack of anti-Putin TV programs in Russia... the last two AFAIK were removed by NTV just couple of weeks ago.. The station is now owned by Gazprom, and Gazprom is owned by Putin.. I had to add this little explanation :)

take care
lekomin inc

[Abbyy]

Well you sound like old communist propaganda.. you are the only true "peace-loving" nation and everybody is against you :)


First of all: go **** yourself bitch.

He he, I like Permskiy style of discussions :) If you noticed i write nothing about position of Russia in Georgian affairs. Actually whole topic is not connected with Russia if you didn't notice that.



First of all calling Russia "a democracy" as you did and listing "Greater Georgia" as a threat to it can be compared to "Greater Tajwan" being a threat to "democratic China".


And at second go **** yourself again. Where i wrote that Georgia is a threat? As for Russia. I live in Russia. You're not. So shut your hole and let me decide what my country is.



Secondly, Georgia as a sovereign contry has the right to choose what foreign military forces (if any) could station on its sovereign teritory. How come the Russians have promised to evacuate their bases from Georgia and actually signed a Treaty obliging them to do exactly that. As the deadline expired the Russians just said "%#%#%# the treaty, we will not leave". Imagine something like this happening in Russia.. foreign troops declining the order to leave, an order Georgia had the right to issue, had it not?


Stambul 1999 agreement didn't set exact date for withdrawal.

Iraq also was sovereign country. And it was promised that Iraq receive its severeignity back. Now about than 200 000 foreign troops still in country. Think about it.



Thirdly, Russia is losing its grip on the whole Caucasus region. Georgia is going west in its political and military objective. It has the whole support of the USA and EU. Oil-rich countries in the vicinity are awarding oil contracts to westers oil companies.. And I must say this is much better and cheaper oil then Siberian fields oil. As a repercusion Russia gives support to South Ossetia, a region which is a part of Georgia (u don't dispute that right?). There is no peace treaty in south ossetia.. OSCE is there to monitor the situation, and prevent bloodshed as it happened during the Shevartnadze times.


You don't know history. And economy too.
It wasn't during Shevarnadze time.
Siberian oil have good quality. Actually lower quality oil called Urals. Guess why. As for price - how do you know that? Tankers with Caspian oil are not staying in US ports. You still don't know real price for delivery of this oil.



As for the "free-media". You must be equally shocked by the complete lack of anti-Putin TV programs in Russia... the last two AFAIK were removed by NTV just couple of weeks ago.. The station is now owned by Gazprom, and Gazprom is owned by Putin.. I had to add this little explanation :)

take care
lekomin inc

Re-read what i wrote about national TV chanels above. And about the rest of the media too. As for TV. Please, before deciding which programs are anti-Putin and which aren't, give me complete list of political, news, analitical programs on our main TV channels (and BTW name me all of them). I bet you can't. So how can you know that there is no free press?


Resume: go **** yourself third time and save my own time from typing answers for you.

[Abbyy]

And i forget to say that NTV already 4 years in Gazprom media pool. You showed lack of knowledge once again.

[ArtofPain]

Abbyy what's about a couple of beer in Sunday evening? ;)
It's a pity I can't call Permskii too :( На троих сообразили бы!

[Abbyy]

Abbyy what's about a couple of beer in Sunday evening? ;)
It's a pity I can't call Permskii too :( На троих сообразили бы!

That's my dream. But not in this life :)
Lunch time preferred :)

[ArtofPain]

That's my dream. But not in this life :)
Lunch time preferred :)
:( Ok wait for PM

[StukaJr]

Я бы выпел, да кто бы дал? p-)

Возможно в следующем году, если Poma пригcиt... Родину навестить

[ArtofPain]

Я бы выпел, да кто бы дал? p-)

Возможно в следующем году, если Poma пригcиt... Родину навестить
Ну как можно отказать парню из Лос-Анжелеса! ;) У вас там и так жизнь тяжёлая, приезжай - НАЛЬЮ!!!!!! woot

[StukaJr]

Следующим летом - это было бы хорошo

[ArtofPain]

Следующим летом - это было бы хорошo
You're welcome!!!