Jewish Soldier

[ArmyRanger]

Ive always wonderd what other people thought about this, Im joinin the Us army next year. 11B Infantry, Ranger hopefully and as you know Name , Rank, Serial number, Bloodtype and Religion are put on your dogtags. Me im Jewish. but i dont know if i should have that put on my tags cause if im captured in the middle east most of you know i wouldent stand a chance.

What do you think about that and what would you suggest i do?
i can always get 2 sets made. :|

and without your dogtags you cant be treated as a soldier and given genva convention treatment but they dont do that anyways

[Sayeret]

I would put my religion because there is a good chance they will kill you anyway just because you are an American so you might as well die standing up for what you believe in. Also even though you may die you would probably gain the respect of many people because you showed courage even till your death.

[ArmyRanger]

being jewish gives u a 100% chance of death tho, i dont even think they would negotiate for me.

if they dont know i will probly have more

[Sayeret]

The US doesn't tend to negotiate with terrorists but they would still try to rescue you no matter what your religion is.

[ChuckThunder]

being jewish gives u a 100% chance of death tho, i dont even think they would negotiate for me.

if they dont know i will probly have more

Hehe. rofl

If you're a proud Jew put it on your dog tags. Don't deny your faith because some Arab nutjob scares you. Also don't surrender! :lol:



Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of the Rangers.

Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move further, faster, and fight harder than any other soldier.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong, and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be, one hundred percent and then some.

Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress, and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission, though I be the lone survivor.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Well its easy for me to say REPRESENT, but ultimately the choice is your, and if it can be the deciding factor between life and death, you should probably not put it.

[Moledet]

What's next? You gonna convert to Islam so you'll have a better chance to survive?

P.S. If you are so afraid of dying, you picked the wrong job.

[ArmyRanger]

Hey , just rather be alive. i can go to temple for forgiveness anytime

[UkrainianAmerican]

It all depends on how "Jewish" are you.

[ArmyRanger]

Oh well man people to desperate things at desperate times. You havent been put in that position and neither have i

[Moledet]

Yes but as a soldier im gonna die fighting not for a f*** title
If that's your approach to Judhaism than maybe you should convert. :|

[ArmyRanger]

Sorry its not like the jewish community has accepted me . its diffrent in america. my dad dosent run a law firm. they dont like my kind. all there kids are gonna be Dr's and Surgeons and im gonna be a low payed grunt and im proud of it

[EvanL]

You think too hard dude.
If you think this hard your gonna think yourself out of the army.
Just join up and dont bitch. What happens happens. Its part of being a soldier.

[ArmyRanger]

Man this post got off topic , just say if u would put it on or not in ur shoes

[Moledet]

Man this post got off topic , just say if u would put it on or not in ur shoes
I wouldn't just put it, I would also carry a "Tehilim" book in my pocket.

[EvanL]

Of course i would put my religion on my dogtags regardless if i was jewish or muslim or christian or bhuddist. Its part of who i am.
Cant you just put atheist anyways if you dont wanna be known as Jewish?

[ArmyRanger]

Its put on there so they know how to burry you, you can put no preference.

[EvanL]

Its put on there so they know how to burry you, you can put no preference.
Well then put what you are.
I dont see the point of u posting a topic like this. Its totally up to you. If your not willing to put Jewish on it, then maybe you picked the wrong religion. Be proud of what you are. If Jews are disliked in the mid-east, and you go there. you go there with even more of a risk if caught. It doesnt mean you hav e to lie about whaty uo are.

[BadKarma26]

The Army won't bury you in a Christian ceremony just because your tags say "Protestant" or what have you. They check what their database says and then act accordingly. Blood type should be your main concern on your dog tags. Don't lie about that lol rofl "Oh JEEZ I WONDER IF THEYRE GONNA KILL ME BECAUSE IM O POSITIVE!!"

[ch703]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

[Kitsune]

The best advice is: Do not get caught. I do not know wether you get more problems as Jew in Arab captivity as a "normal American". Contrary to public belief the Germans did not send captured American or British jewish soldiers to Auschwitz during WWII. They were treated like the Christian POWs. Perhaps the Arabs do the same.

[Jack Mehoff]

I'd put satan on my dog tag

[gilgoul]

one
Hey , just rather be alive. i can go to temple for forgiveness anytime


You might so like a lot of jewish servicement did before you, in time of operation having a second set of dog tag saying "no prefered religion".
SO if you (god forbid) be KIA, or worst fall into ennmy hands in this nice part of the world, they`ll behead you more nicely, :(
Seriously, your concern is understandable, Daniel Pearl, who was a JOURNALIST, was killed only because JEWISH.

As for "temple" forgiveness, you don`t really need that, :D ,

[UoUo]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.

[EvanL]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.
Dont you mean the jewish religion? The Jewish nation i believe is Israel.. Correct?

[gilgoul]

The best advice is: Do not get caught. I do not know wether you get more problems as Jew in Arab captivity as a "normal American". Contrary to public belief the Germans did not send captured American or British jewish soldiers to Auschwitz during WWII. They were treated like the Christian POWs. Perhaps the Arabs do the same.


They sent the other jewish POW to deportation and concentraation camps, my grand father was among them :( .


AS for "arab captivity", you have to distinguish between movements and states, with egypt being "relatively" correct, breakin the geneva convention on several aspects thought, and Syria that symply executed POW`s, tortured them systematicaly, and return only a few of them in 1974.
After the kippur war, not a single ISraeli POW has been treated as is, and MIA`s generally end up in coffin and are the object of the most abject trade, bones for "political" prisoners.
I have to remind you the fate of Daniel Pearl, not a soldier but a journalist, beheaded because jewish.

[UoUo]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.
Dont you mean the jewish religion? The Jewish nation i believe is Israel.. Correct?

you don't have to be religious in order to be Jewish....all you have to do is to consider your self as jewish and that all...that what i meant...

I think that more then 80% of our pop' are no religious.

[EvanL]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.
Dont you mean the jewish religion? The Jewish nation i believe is Israel.. Correct?

you don't have to be religious in order to be Jewish....all you have to do is to consider your self as jewish and that all...that what i meant...

I think that more then 80% of our pop' are no religious.
Out of all the Jews i know.. None of them are religious. Especially the Israelis. Except for having their bar/bat mitzva's and celebrating Jewish holidays, none of them are any more religious than me who as a christian goes to church maybe once a year if i can wake up in time, and celebrates onoly the big holidays.

[UoUo]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.
Dont you mean the jewish religion? The Jewish nation i believe is Israel.. Correct?

you don't have to be religious in order to be Jewish....all you have to do is to consider your self as jewish and that all...that what i meant...

I think that more then 80% of our pop' are no religious.
Out of all the Jews i know.. None of them are religious. Especially the Israelis. Except for having their bar/bat mitzva's and celebrating Jewish holidays, none of them are any more religious than me who as a christian goes to church maybe once a year if i can wake up in time, and celebrates onoly the big holidays.

Exactly.

But we still consider us as jews.

[EvanL]

not to be racist,but wouldnt arab people be able to tell if your were jewish because of the way you looked anyways?

Yeah..with all of your big nosses and all... :roll:


Anyway..be proud and say you are a jewish...you know...they hate Americans and jewish almost the same...so if they got you..your dead Anyway...

BTW: people FFS..to be jewish not mean that you believe in the tora..you Even don't have to believe in God. all you have to be..is to have a jewish mother..and conisder yourself as part of the jewish nation.
Dont you mean the jewish religion? The Jewish nation i believe is Israel.. Correct?

you don't have to be religious in order to be Jewish....all you have to do is to consider your self as jewish and that all...that what i meant...

I think that more then 80% of our pop' are no religious.
Out of all the Jews i know.. None of them are religious. Especially the Israelis. Except for having their bar/bat mitzva's and celebrating Jewish holidays, none of them are any more religious than me who as a christian goes to church maybe once a year if i can wake up in time, and celebrates onoly the big holidays.

Exactly.

But we still consider us as jews.
\Same way as im considered a christian. but not of the christian nation.

[Tane Angle]

I would strongly recommend against identifying yourself as Jewish in the Middle East. As a soldier, if you survive you can fight another day and even in captivity, you can help your fellow prisoners. Dead, you can't. SERE training emphasizes logic and surviving, not making a heroic martyr's death. I'd like to think that the SERE folks know what they're talking about. Soldiers aren't there to be heroes or martyrs, they're there to do their jobs.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[UkrainianAmerican]

Reminder # 63729:
Jew/Hebrew is an ETHNIC group. ;)

[Tane Angle]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?

[EvanL]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?
How many Jews are in India? And how did they get there? Im just curious cus i wasnt aware there were many.

[UoUo]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?
How many Jews are in India? And how did they get there? Im just curious cus i wasnt aware there were many.

About 1000..i think less....

[EvanL]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?
How many Jews are in India? And how did they get there? Im just curious cus i wasnt aware there were many.

About 1000..i think less....
How did they end up in India?

[Tane Angle]

Always been there, more or less. There are a few thousand native to India. No one knows for sure how they got there, but most theories say that they probably migrated over the years, fleeing this invasion or that famine. There are also Christians native to India, most of them Thomasine converts dating back to the early days of Christianity. Very fascinating groups, they're almost living fossils to earlier times, as much of the time the culture hasn't changed much, having been isolated in mountains for so long. Coptic Christianity and many groups in Lebanon are similar in that regard.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[EvanL]

Always been there, more or less. There are a few thousand native to India. No one knows for sure how they got there, but most theories say that they probably migrated over the years, fleeing this invasion or that famine. There are also Christians native to India, most of them Thomasine converts dating back to the early days of Christianity. Very fascinating groups, they're almost living fossils to earlier times, as much of the time the culture hasn't changed much, having been isolated in mountains for so long. Coptic Christianity and many groups in Lebanon are similar in that regard.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...
Ive always thought that the christians and Jews in Ethiopia are a rather intriguing few.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?
Mostly, yes.

[ZeroPositive]

without reading what others say I would do the smart thing rather then the proud thing, not put any religion.

[StarvingStudent47]

Sorry its not like the jewish community has accepted me . its diffrent in america. my dad dosent run a law firm. they dont like my kind. all there kids are gonna be Dr's and Surgeons and im gonna be a low payed grunt and im proud of it

In WWII-Europe, some American Jewish soldiers crushed the Star of David off their dog-tags in case they got captured. Other's didn't.

It's your call entirely. Personally, as another American Jew, I understand the predicament and I wouldn't think less of you regardless of your decision on this matter.

[Sayeret]

I would strongly recommend against identifying yourself as Jewish in the Middle East. As a soldier, if you survive you can fight another day and even in captivity, you can help your fellow prisoners. Dead, you can't. SERE training emphasizes logic and surviving, not making a heroic martyr's death. I'd like to think that the SERE folks know what they're talking about. Soldiers aren't there to be heroes or martyrs, they're there to do their jobs.

You are a soldier and a human too and even if you were a Christian nothing guarantees your safety. If I have to be killed I would atleast I'd be being killed as a Jew than something that I'm not.

[ZeroPositive]

As I said :) don't mention any religon, if they do capture u... at least you can Blag Atheist :D

[Sayeret]

As I said don't mention any religon, if they do capture u... at least you can Blag Atheist

You shouldn't mention your religion if they don't ask but if they do you might as well tell them what you really are.

[gilgoul]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?

Let say we are an ethnic group that transcends traditional racial barrier :D
Taking the two groups you mentioned, you`ll see cultural, linguistic and culinary diference among other, but you`ll find the same religious beliefs, the same craving for Zion, the same language, if not spoken then lithurgic, the Hebrew and the same ultra protective, food stuffing jewish mothers :D (ok, bad joke).
There aren`t many example like that in the world (in fact I don`t know any for sure), but nevertheless this makes us a people, the Jewish people, not only by religious belief (I `m myself non believer), nor only by national criterion(all the jews aren`t israelis and all the israeli`s aren`t jews).

[ZeroPositive]

I am a Buddhist by faith but even I wouldn't mention any religion I rather not...
Unless they kept beating me day in and day out...

[Moledet]

Depends on how it is looked at. Hebrew is an ethnic group, Jewish is a religion. Take Jews from Russia or Germany. Are they the same ethnic group as Jews from India, Lebanon, or Israel (as in living there for the past few centuries)?
How many Jews are in India? And how did they get there? Im just curious cus i wasnt aware there were many.
There were 12 tribes, people think that only Judaha and Benjamin survived, but it's not completely true, Ethiopians are from another tribe, Indians are also believed to be from another tribe.
The Pathans are living in Afghanistan, Kashmir and Pakistan and they do all kind of Jewish ceremonies (Ksahrut, curcumcision in the 8th day, wear tzizit, light candels on friday, etc...), but they are not Jewish, they are Israelites, if they want to be Jewish (belonged to Judaha) they need to convert.

Also Japan was influenced by the Jews, just as an example:
Knesset (Hebrew) means Parliament.
Knesei (Japanese) means Constitutional government.
And there are thousands of other words.
There's also a well in Japan with the words:"well of Israel" written on its inside.

Also in China there's a tribe that acts like the Israelites used to act. There are more communities in other countries that act like Jews, in: the Crimea, the Caucasus, Kenya, Nigeria, Armenia, Persia, Central Asia, North Siberia, West Africa, South Africa, Peru, South America, Australia, Ireland. In all of these places there are people that has traditions that resmbels the Jewish traditions.

[W(M)D]

Keep the religion on your tags, until you are posted to somewhere like Iraq. The majoruty of your service is likely to be in a benign area.

The military authorities will be aware of the reprecussions if you are captured and you should be able to request an 'alternative' set of tags for that area of operations prior to employment there. They do this in the British Army.

[AROUETLJ]

Marco Polo mentions Jewish communities in China. Interesting stuff.

[oldsoak]

A Rabbi once declared that being wise is preferable to being proud. Why give your enemy a rod to beat you with ? Personally I would do two things - firstly talk to your Rabbi and ask his advice - he may point out that there is a difference between wisdom and cowardice and help settle your mind. Secondly - get two sets of tags one with your religion, the other without. If the enemy wants to find out who is a Jew and who is not, make him work for it.
;)

[digrar]

Is your surname on your ID tags going to give the game away? If it is, you might as well not bother with hiding your religion.

[W(M)D]

Is your surname on your ID tags going to give the game away? If it is, you might as well not bother with hiding your religion.

It may surprise readers to know that not every Jew has a surname like Goldberg or Cohen :lol:

[UoUo]

BTW no every american sol' that come to iraq end up in thier hands.. :lol:

[UoUo]

Any way...you think that if they get you and you are christen they won't kill you? people..they kill thier on people in car bombs and act...so...

[oldsoak]

Any way...you think that if they get you and you are christen they won't kill you? people..they kill thier on people in car bombs and act...so...

Very true, but why make it easy for them ?

[UoUo]

Any way...you think that if they get you and you are christen they won't kill you? people..they kill thier on people in car bombs and act...so...

Very true, but why make it easy for them ?

It is choise...but i even whouldn't think of that...jew and damm proud of that. and **** all the terroists.

[oldsoak]

True, but every little victory is sweet :) . Never disclose anything that your enemy may use for your downfall. Its a difficult one and I admire your sentiment. For an Israeli soldier of course, there is no question of this. For a Jew serving in the US armed forces, I would say only the US need know. If your enemy seeks to destroy you because you are Jewish, then hiding from him is not shameful.