Brits Unit with HK issued

[Merit]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040720/capt.sge.omb10.200704091544.photo00.default-241x384.jpg
Quote:
A British soldier stands guard at the British consulate in Basra. The interim governor of the southern Iraqi city, Hazem al-Ainachi, has been shot dead by unknown assailants as he was heading to work.

Which particular Brits unit has HK issued? And somehow it looks like a MC51(20rds 7.62 straight Mag) rather than a HK53 (30rds 5.56 curve Mag), any other pics from different angle can verify that? & would the Trijicon Reflex be issued too? Anyone?

[rob]

its a 5.56

[FozzieBear]

this is the 7.62 version i think its issued to SBS troops dunno about anyone else though

[Royal]

It's a 5.56mm HK53 in this case used by a RMP CP operator.

[FozzieBear]

mag looks straight to me :S how can everyones eyesight be better than mine? LOL people spot things out in pitch black pictures

[Steve Andrews]

Definitely 5.56

HK mags are thick - built to last!!

[FozzieBear]

i just brightened it up in paintshop and i now see they are curved :) man my monitor sucks :(

[Gringo]

http://www.onesixthcollectors.co.uk/hosting/robw/brig-cpr.jpg

[Hydro]

If you check out the photos from Prince Charles visit, one of the Brit personnel is carrying a G3K.

MC51 (FR Ordnance version, not the Fleming thing) was never issued to UK forces (at least, not in anything more than trials quantity). As far as I know, it was trialled for SF use before the HK53 came around, and as soon as the HK53 turned up the MC51 was doomed.

[Aussie E]

There was a picture in the NY Times from Prince Charles' visit to Iraq. It was him exiting a helicopter with about 5 of his CP detail. One had a G3 and the rest had the 5.56 short barreled version with Trijicon relfexes mounted (initilally I htought they were MP-5's but on closer examination a relized the mags were to big to be 9mm). This was the same time as the SHOT Show here in Vegas so I took it and gave it to one of the HK reps at their display/booth.
EDIT. GRINGO POSTED THE PIC I WAS TALKING ABOUT

[Gringo]

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Close_Protection/aau.jpg

HK53. CP when Jack Straw visited Iraq.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2004/02/10/20040209174312.jpeg

Best pic I could find [so far] of Prince Charles in Iraq with the CPU.

[Merit]

Thanks guys!
:P :P :P

[REMOV]

Which particular Brits unit has HK issued?Britons bought some numbers of HK53 and HK33, produced in Royal Small Arms in Enfield. But I don't know which units used them - MDP (Ministry of Defence Police)?

[DeltaWhisky58]

Which particular Brits unit has HK issued?Britons bought some numbers of HK53 and HK33, produced in Royal Small Arms in Enfield. But I don't know which units used them - MDP (Ministry of Defence Police)?

Some but not necessarily all...............

SAS
SBS
14 Int.
Royal Military Police CP
Royal Marines Police Troop CP
RAF Police CP
Others?

Mainly HK53, G3A4, G3kA4, MP5k, MP5

I think I'm correct in saying that MoD Police use the SA80.

[REMOV]

14 Int.You think about 14 Intelligence Company of the SAS? Formed for NI actions? Just to be sure.

[notmesir]

14 were not part of the regt.

[REMOV]

14 were not part of the regt.Could you be a bit more specific? ;)

[DeltaWhisky58]

14 Intelligence & Security Company aka The Det are independent of 22 SAS and draw on manpower from all branches of the UK armed service incl. SAS/SBS

Although 14 Int. staff are classed as SF, and received SF pay, the unit is wholly indepedent - staff are not Badged by either SAS or SBS and retrn to their units (in theory) after each tour.

can anyone confirm current status - i.e. still active - I assume so.

[notmesir]

that's what I was going to say :lol:

There's not really much else that can be said on an open forum ;)

[martinexsquaddie]

cop platoons in NI get hk53 and mp5 as well

[Argyll]

14 Intelligence & Security Company aka The Det are independent of 22 SAS and draw on manpower from all branches of the UK armed service incl. SAS/SBS

Although 14 Int. staff are classed as SF, and received SF pay, the unit is wholly indepedent - staff are not Badged by either SAS or SBS and retrn to their units (in theory) after each tour.

can anyone confirm current status - i.e. still active - I assume so.

Very active!and turning their attention to "other" places ;)

[ogukuo72]

It's good that the accumulated expertise would not go to waste, now that the Troubles are winding down.

[DeltaWhisky58]

14 Intelligence & Security Company aka The Det are independent of 22 SAS and draw on manpower from all branches of the UK armed service incl. SAS/SBS

Although 14 Int. staff are classed as SF, and received SF pay, the unit is wholly indepedent - staff are not Badged by either SAS or SBS and retrn to their units (in theory) after each tour.

can anyone confirm current status - i.e. still active - I assume so.

Very active!and turning their attention to "other" places ;)

Yes, very relieved to hear that. I had heard the odd whisper - shame to let such talent and experience go to waste.

[Steve Andrews]

14 Int have "branched out" from Northern Ireland to the Balkans.
At least the weather will be better there!!

[pretorian669]

Brits with HK53...
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/BRIT_HK53.bmp

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/d_rmc02.jpg

[OldRecon]

SAS aquired H&K G-3's when IRA started to "armour" some of their hijack cars with boiler plates and the like?
5.56 ammo then (before NATO standardized on the Belgian developed SSG-109 5.56 ammo) didn't have the punch to penetrate the improvised IRA armour while the nato 7.62x56 did? Thus the G-3 versions with telescope butt offered the best compromise on handiness, reliability and firepower (automatic vs. semi auto of SLR)?
G-3's with collapsible stock have had a mixed reputation in the Norwegian armed forces, with regards to fatigue failures on the weld between the receiver and buffer endplate.
No probs with the fixed stock version though.
Preffered the G-3 over the MP-5 myself during my days.
Would be more dependant on "clean hits" like headshots to disengage from a contact with the sub-machinegun (if it even had the necessary range to hit back)?

[Hydro]

SAS aquired H&K G-3's when IRA started to "armour" some of their hijack cars with boiler plates and the like?
5.56 ammo then (before NATO standardized on the Belgian developed SSG-109 5.56 ammo) didn't have the punch to penetrate the improvised IRA armour while the nato 7.62x56 did? Thus the G-3 versions with telescope butt offered the best compromise on handiness, reliability and firepower (automatic vs. semi auto of SLR)?


The SAS have been using the G3 for many years, I've seen a picture of an SAS soldier in Oman back in the 60's with a G3. It's true they did get some more in for use in NI, but captured Argentinian folding stock FAL's also saw some use before the H&K's arrived.

[Flanker]

SAS aquired H&K G-3's when IRA started to "armour" some of their hijack cars with boiler plates and the like?
5.56 ammo then (before NATO standardized on the Belgian developed SSG-109 5.56 ammo) didn't have the punch to penetrate the improvised IRA armour while the nato 7.62x56 did? Thus the G-3 versions with telescope butt offered the best compromise on handiness, reliability and firepower (automatic vs. semi auto of SLR)?
G-3's with collapsible stock have had a mixed reputation in the Norwegian armed forces, with regards to fatigue failures on the weld between the receiver and buffer endplate.
No probs with the fixed stock version though.
Preffered the G-3 over the MP-5 myself during my days.
Would be more dependant on "clean hits" like headshots to disengage from a contact with the sub-machinegun (if it even had the necessary range to hit back)?

The "NI G3" that was aquired to compensate for these improvised armour platings and the like was the Heckler & Koch G3KA4, wich is a shortened G3 version with a collapsable stock. It's ideal for use in urban areas and when shooting from vehicles.

The SAS has used G3's for years, as previously mentioned in this topic, but the G3KA4 was bought specifically for NI use.

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g3ka4.jpg

[DeltaWhisky58]

Which particular Brits unit has HK issued?Britons bought some numbers of HK53 and HK33, produced in Royal Small Arms in Enfield. But I don't know which units used them - MDP (Ministry of Defence Police)?

Some but not necessarily all...............

SAS
SBS
14 Int.
Royal Military Police CP
Royal Marines Police Troop CP
RAF Police CP
Others?

Mainly HK53, G3A4, G3kA4, MP5k, MP5

I think I'm correct in saying that MoD Police use the SA80.

Yes, G3kA4 as previously mentioned also.

[martinexsquaddie]

i got to carry an hk53 and was'nt sf unless somebody forgot to tell me rofl

[oldsoak]

i got to carry an hk53 and was'nt sf unless somebody forgot to tell me rofl

Ah, didnt you read your part 1 orders ? B*gger.....

[DeltaWhisky58]

i got to carry an hk53 and was'nt sf unless somebody forgot to tell me rofl

Ahah, but then they didn't have to give you SF pay either........... rofl

Most of the above units are not SF

[catchv22]

How is the HK53?

[Tom The Hunter]

14 Intelligence & Security Company aka The Det are independent of 22 SAS and draw on manpower from all branches of the UK armed service incl. SAS/SBS

Although 14 Int. staff are classed as SF, and received SF pay, the unit is wholly indepedent - staff are not Badged by either SAS or SBS and retrn to their units (in theory) after each tour.

can anyone confirm current status - i.e. still active - I assume so.

The Det is disbanded!

[Tom The Hunter]

SAS used the HK 53 together with MP5 for undercover operations with the cars.
In middle eighties, they expresed thei disapoint that 5,56 don't pass the cars of the IRA man, and could not stop if shoot in engine.
Initially they used para versions of FAL of Argentina Army, thay had as war trophy by the Falkland war. Or used to put to brit FAL the folding stock of argentinian fal.
With SAS references, the H&K (in these times property of British Aerospace), produced the G3K (kurz), callet HK 56 too, or G3A4 K.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Tom The Hunter wrote:


The Det is disbanded!

On what do you base this assertion? Other well-informed sources on this thread suggest that it is not and in fact exapnding its activities further afailed than just N.I. and U.K. - please explain.

[Tom The Hunter]

Tom The Hunter wrote:


The Det is disbanded!

On what do you base this assertion? Other well-informed sources on this thread suggest that it is not and in fact exapnding its activities further afailed than just N.I. and U.K. - please explain.

DET was disbanded for these reasons

1-conflicts with MI 6, when det become to say that they could do ops out of GB!
MI 6 get piss of!
2-Conflicts with MI 5, as two paralel structures for internal security!
3-bad reputation created by DET methods. The fact that for GB, the oldest so calle democracy of the world, continue to use the army for Public Order duties, is not seen very well to the rest of the world. Especially with the criminal methods used by brit army against irish civilians, only for the fact that they are Catholics!
Very interestning some interviews gaven by Det members to BBC, how the tortured people, and how they made a party every time they killed a "****ing irish". They did a cake with the Crux form and letters RIP.
Very brittish behaviour...

[DeltaWhisky58]

Tom the Hunter

You are clearly not British - how come you are so well informed on these matters. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced with your assertions about The Det's disbandment.

Sources within the British military and intel community disagree with you.

Hard evidence please.........

[Tom The Hunter]

Tom the Hunter

You are clearly not British - how come you are so well informed on these matters. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced with your assertions about The Det's disbandment.

Sources within the British military and intel community disagree with you.

Hard evidence please.........

So you are a Brittish, and have to defend your Country!
Right or wrong, it's my Country!
I appreciate it!
But as a Scott, perhaps you have any record in your national strory, how limes behaves to the civilians!
Now you are by their side, but for centuries, you could personally taste their civilisation!

[Tom The Hunter]

Tom the Hunter

You are clearly not British - how come you are so well informed on these matters. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced with your assertions about The Det's disbandment.

Sources within the British military and intel community disagree with you.

Hard evidence please.........

So you are a Brittish, and have to defend your Country!
Right or wrong, it's my Country!
I appreciate it!
But as a Scott, perhaps you have any record in your national strory, how limes behaves to the civilians!
Now you are by their side, but for centuries, you could personally taste their civilisation!

[Steve Andrews]

Tom the Hunter

You are clearly not British - how come you are so well informed on these matters. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced with your assertions about The Det's disbandment.

Sources within the British military and intel community disagree with you.

Hard evidence please.........

So you are a Brittish, and have to defend your Country!
Right or wrong, it's my Country!
I appreciate it!
But as a Scott, perhaps you have any record in your national strory, how limes behaves to the civilians!
Now you are by their side, but for centuries, you could personally taste their civilisation!


ummmmm......yeah mate.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Tom the Hunter

You are clearly not British - how come you are so well informed on these matters. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced with your assertions about The Det's disbandment.

Sources within the British military and intel community disagree with you.

Hard evidence please.........

So you are a Brittish, and have to defend your Country!
Right or wrong, it's my Country!
I appreciate it!
But as a Scott, perhaps you have any record in your national strory, how limes behaves to the civilians!
Now you are by their side, but for centuries, you could personally taste their civilisation!

I'm sorry Tom - I don't understand you. What are you trying to say?

[Roger Rabbit]

edit

[Argyll]

Ok before this turns into "who's got the biggest ****" competition,in which I will win hands down,this topic will get locked.

Tom...........the Det or 14 Int Coy are alive and kicking today,right now,I work with guys who have served there recently,and some mates still serve there.........and like I said before.......they have branched out into other areas,trust me on this.......


The truth is out there ;)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Thanks Argyll for restoring sanity.

[Chops]

Howdy Argyll

Dropping in to agree with you. The Det were active in Spain as of late 2002 and the Balkans before that. I have no more current detail.

Hope you enjoyed your trip in the sun

cheers, C

[Gringo]

Howdy Argyll

Dropping in to agree with you. The Det were active in Spain as of late 2002 and the Balkans before that. I have no more current detail.

Hope you enjoyed your trip in the sun

cheers, C

Spain?

They were trackinbg down war ciminals in the Balkans I think.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Chops wrote:

The Det were active in Spain as of late 2002

Hmmm...........that's an interesting one - watching Al Quaeda methinks? Would kind of confirm what was said in this thread: U.K. Creates Regiment to Spy on Terror Groups (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20569).

Very interesting.........

[Royal]

The Dets are alive and well and playing in several theatres.

[gaz]

There a couple of articles in todays Times regarding 14 Intelligence Company.

Al-Qaeda is the new target of elite unit (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,170-1191552,00.html)

Special operatives who never go out unarmed (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,170-1191699,00.html)

[Tom The Hunter]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

[Royal]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

Go play with a hand grenade (something nice and dodgy like an M79). Nobody here gives a toss about your stupid rants.

[DeltaWhisky58]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

You seem to write nothing but ill-informed rubbish when you post here - try somewhere else.........please!

[Geezah]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

How long will it be before he's booted???

[DeltaWhisky58]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

How long will it be before he's booted???

The sooner the better!

[Geezah]

Initially they used para versions of FAL of Argentina Army, thay had as war trophy by the Falkland war. Or used to put to brit FAL the folding stock of argentinian fal.


Are you sure on that if you reference Britians Small Wars on there they state that the Argentian FN Fal Para was too hard to control on full auto so why didn't they just use the L1A1?

Maybe someone that's British could confirm this?

[Geezah]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

How long will it be before he's booted???

The sooner the better!

Amen!

[OldRecon]

Initially they used para versions of FAL of Argentina Army, thay had as war trophy by the Falkland war. Or used to put to brit FAL the folding stock of argentinian fal.


Are you sure on that if you reference Britians Small Wars on there they state that the Argentian FN Fal Para was too hard to control on full auto so why didn't they just use the L1A1?

Maybe someone that's British could confirm this?

Think the cyclic rate of fire of FAL's with full auto enabled is something in the order of 750 rpm compared to 500-550 rpm of a G-3.
Even so in my Norwegian armed forces days we were instructed strictly to limit auto fire to double taps, and limit auto fire in general to targets within 50 meters (if I remember correctly?). Though with the G-3 have witnessed guys putting a full 20 round mag of double taps with no misses into the smal 10x10 "head area" at the top of standard Norwegian armed forces full figure targets at 60 meters with instant "point method" shooting (as a variation from aiming at the "heart region" innter circle to relive "a bit of boredom" :D).

[marktigger]

Have also seen Army aircorps Lynx and Gazelle crews with HK53 and pic of RLC air despatch with an MP5K though a mate who was AD said even on SF they carried L85a1.

[captainfly]

Initially they used para versions of FAL of Argentina Army, thay had as war trophy by the Falkland war. Or used to put to brit FAL the folding stock of argentinian fal.


Eh? I was under the impression that the L1A1/SLR the fixed stock version, had the recoil spring in it's stock, and the folding stock versions have it in the receiver cover so require a slightly different bolt carrier, receiver cover and a recoil spring, also if memory serves weren't the Argentine FALs metric pattern rather than our imperial L1A1 (though that could be wrong)? anyone?

[marktigger]

yep that would be about right L1a1 was imperial and FAL was metric

[Tom The Hunter]

The fact on modified argentinian FAL I have read on the book of McNabb, Immediate Action.
However, perhaps he is unreliable.

[Tom The Hunter]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

Go play with a hand grenade (something nice and dodgy like an M79). Nobody here gives a toss about your stupid rants.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20749&highlight=south+african


A mercenary is worst than a terrorist!

[Gringo]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

Go play with a hand grenade (something nice and dodgy like an M79). Nobody here gives a toss about your stupid rants.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20749&highlight=south+african


A mercenary is worst than a terrorist!

I wonder how Argyll would feel about this statement?

[Tom The Hunter]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

Go play with a hand grenade (something nice and dodgy like an M79). Nobody here gives a toss about your stupid rants.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20749&highlight=south+african


A mercenary is worst than a terrorist!

I wonder how Argyll would feel about this statement?

I think that is Argyll is a gentleman, can accept true and uncontestable facts!
It's not the first time that ex-brittish higly trained soldiers stay to the wrong side!

[Geezah]

It was very interestning the fact that british SAS oficer, together with south african sf officers trained terrorists!
Not a new situation, when one columbian narco cartel engaged ex Mossad agents to train them the rivales engaged british SS sorry SAS.

Go play with a hand grenade (something nice and dodgy like an M79). Nobody here gives a toss about your stupid rants.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20749&highlight=south+african


A mercenary is worst than a terrorist!

I wonder how Argyll would feel about this statement?

I think that is Argyll is a gentleman, can accept true and uncontestable facts!
It's not the first time that ex-brittish higly trained soldiers stay to the wrong side!

So what's your view on the Gurkha's, seeing as they not only fight for the British but also the Indian army and just so happen to be from Nepal?

[oldsoak]

Yes, ex Brit army guys do get to train blokes from the "wrong side" as Tom put it. But that is down to those individuals. Theres a lot of ex army guys who work for reputable agencies that specialise in protecting their clients from being toasted. They dont go around topping people, they protect their client and no more - they are not hit men or any such ****. The ex army blokes has been trained in specific skills and why shouldnt they put those skills to good use with a reputable agency once they left the army ?

[captainfly]

The fact on modified argentinian FAL I have read on the book of McNabb, Immediate Action.
However, perhaps he is unreliable.

Ah, fair enough that makes quite a lot of sense, I mean it's not like he ever exagerated, or made things up for his military fiction :roll:

[martinexsquaddie]

on automatic my FAL tended to climb towards the sky :(
but was fun to see the range officers expresssion :roll:
it was a present from a dodgy relatative when I joined the TA beat getting my SLR dirty on exercise :lol:

[Roger Rabbit]

on automatic my FAL tended to climb towards the sky :(
but was fun to see the range officers expresssion :roll:
it was a present from a dodgy relatative when I joined the TA beat getting my SLR dirty on exercise :lol:

Wasn't it possible to make a L1A1 fully auto by using a matchstick or is that a old wives tale?

[oldsoak]

I never had the bearings to try !

[RFSU]

No its not an old wives tale but it is a pretty fuking stupid, not to mention dangerous, thing to do.

[Gringo]

No its not an old wives tale but it is a pretty fuking stupid, not to mention dangerous, thing to do.

I heard that sometimes it wouldn't stop firing when you realeased the trigger. :|

[Hydro]

No its not an old wives tale but it is a pretty fuking stupid, not to mention dangerous, thing to do.

I heard that sometimes it wouldn't stop firing when you realeased the trigger. :|

It would start firing when you released the cocking handle forward and wouldn't stop until the magazine was empty.

[Roger Rabbit]

No its not an old wives tale but it is a pretty fuking stupid, not to mention dangerous, thing to do.

I heard that sometimes it wouldn't stop firing when you realeased the trigger. :|

It would start firing when you released the cocking handle forward and wouldn't stop until the magazine was empty.

Controlled fire :lol:

How does the match stick trick work then? Does it prevent the cocking handle from catching on ( can't think of the technical term) the release catch?(excuse my apalling knowledge of rifles)

[martinexsquaddie]

lots of people who reckon it was something to do with the sear.
never saw it done but someone who did an armourers course had it demonstrated the entire mag emptys in one go fun but pointless :|

[LRRPES]

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/7412/45141513.jpg

[Steve Andrews]

Nice Gat...

Oh....and Welcome!!

[Geezah]

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/7412/45141513.jpg

Sweet pic, many thanks ;)

[marktigger]

it was however possible to turn the L1a1 full auto with a piece of silver paper but was EXTREMELY dangerous.

How many time are we going to have this thread? and How many time doe we keep having to give people the same answers. BTW has anyone the pic from Soldier of the Fem CP op with the MP5KPDW?

CP teams have
Sig 229 pistols
HK MP5K
HK 53
G3k not the MC51

[DeltaWhisky58]

Mark-Tigger

Check your PM