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Sayeret
07-21-2004, 04:36 AM
This day in UK in 1972 "Bloody Friday" took place. It occured when PIRA terrorists detonated 26 car bombs in Northern Ireland killing 11 people and injuring 130.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/bfriday/nio/photo6.gif

oldsoak
07-21-2004, 07:25 AM
Hopefully this will be a thing of the past.

Geezah
07-21-2004, 09:20 AM
I show the following,


Bloody Friday: What happened

There have been many terrible events in the history of Northern Ireland's conflict, but few have seared the collective consciousness of its people as those on Friday, 21 July 1972, a day that became known as Bloody Friday.
By the end of the day, the IRA's Belfast brigade had detonated at least 20 bombs across the city.

In just 75 minutes of violence, nine people were dead and some 130 more were mutilated, injured and mentally scarred by what they had witnessed. From the outset, the IRA's bombing of the city caused widespread chaos and stretched the security forces to the limit.

Such was the scale of the attack, witnesses at the time remember seeing people running in all directions, not knowing where the bombs were being detonated.

As one report at the time described the scene, "it was impossible for anyone to feel perfectly safe".

Car bombs

While the scale of the attack was huge, it was two car bombs that between them claimed the nine lives - one at the Oxford Street bus station in the city centre, the other outside shops in Cavehill Road in north Belfast.

At Oxford St, the busiest bus station in Northern Ireland, four Ulsterbus workers and two soldiers were killed.

When the emergency services reached the scene, they found that some of the victims had been literally blown to pieces, leading to initial estimates of a death toll of 11.

At the Cavehill Road bomb, the victims were two women and a 14-year-old schoolboy.

Of the 130 injured, 77 were women or children out shopping in the city centre. One police officer at the scene recalled the events for the BBC series Provos in 1997.

"You could hear people screaming, crying and moaning. The first thing that caught my eye was a torso of a human being lying in the middle of the street," he told the series.

Collapsed ceasefire

In terms of furthering its cause among nationalists, the IRA's decision to carry out the Bloody Friday attacks proved to be a disaster.

Earlier in the year, the IRA had experienced a massive propaganda and recruitment boost after the Parachute Regiment killed 13 protesters during Bloody Sunday in Derry. Many joined believing that they had no other way to defend their communities.

By June, the organisation felt confident enough to call a ceasefire and hold secret talks with British ministers in London. Those talks came to nothing and the ceasefire collapsed.

Bloody Friday was part of a deliberate decision to ratchet up a campaign and make normal life impossible.

But after causing the deaths, the IRA tried to blame the security forces for failing to act on warnings.

Ultimately Bloody Friday revealed a side to the organisation that many who had joined in the wake of Bloody Sunday had not wished to acknowledge.

Within 10 days of the attacks, the army moved in to the Bogside area of Derry to take control of a part of the city that had become out-of-bounds, marking the beginning of a long war of attrition by both sides.

Denials

In later years, an IRA leader at the time, Sean MacStiofain, said that the aim of the Bloody Friday attacks had been to cause financial damage - but he still refused to accept responsibility.

"It required only one man with a loud hailer to clear each target area in no time," he said.

"Republicans were convinced that the British had deliberately disregarded these two warnings for strategic policy reasons."

Bloody Friday was by no means the last atrocity of 1972. It remains the bloodiest year of the conflict in Northern Ireland.

By the end of 1972, 496 had been killed, 258 of them civilians.




BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2132219.stm)

RoBBo
07-21-2004, 09:47 AM
my dad was serving in the RUC when this happened.

Tom The Hunter
07-21-2004, 02:06 PM
PIRA is a terrorist organization, but I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

oldsoak
07-21-2004, 02:18 PM
PIRA is a terrorist organization, but I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

The army tried very hard not to kill innocents. Unfortunately the nature of counter terrorist warfare means that you dont always get it right, and tragedies happen. There is never a magic solution in this type of conflict. We can only hope to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.

Tom The Hunter
07-21-2004, 02:41 PM
PIRA is a terrorist organization, but I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

The army tried very hard not to kill innocents. Unfortunately the nature of counter terrorist warfare means that you dont always get it right, and tragedies happen. There is never a magic solution in this type of conflict. We can only hope to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.

Perhaps!
But diferent documents I've consulted, and a nice film on Bloody Friday, make me beleive diferent!
Add the behavior of Brit Army all around the world during all their story...

Stinkinguin
07-21-2004, 03:20 PM
Such as?

Geezah
07-21-2004, 06:17 PM
PIRA is a terrorist organization, but I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

Please explain????

oldsoak
07-21-2004, 06:29 PM
PIRA is a terrorist organization, but I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

The army tried very hard not to kill innocents. Unfortunately the nature of counter terrorist warfare means that you dont always get it right, and tragedies happen. There is never a magic solution in this type of conflict. We can only hope to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.

Perhaps!
But diferent documents I've consulted, and a nice film on Bloody Friday, make me beleive diferent!
Add the behavior of Brit Army all around the world during all their story...

Everyone has an opinion.

hahaha
07-22-2004, 03:44 AM
The army tried very hard to kill unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday.

RoBBo
07-22-2004, 05:08 AM
The army tried very hard to kill unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday.

listen with the enquiry still going on no one really knows wat happened that day. the last i heard there was mounting evidence that an ira man fired 3 shots at the paras which got the days events started.

Chris1
07-22-2004, 05:52 AM
The army tried very hard to kill unarmed civilians on Bloody Sunday.Get stuffed.

Geezah
07-22-2004, 09:33 AM
I can not understand, why British Army killed many innocent and disarmed people. :roll:

Please explain????

You were quick enough to give us your input but you can't tell us how/why YOU came to this conclusion :cantbeli:

Tom The Hunter
07-22-2004, 02:01 PM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

chauncy republicans
07-22-2004, 02:36 PM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

Proof?
Read a history book!! 700 hundred years of British occupation/terrorism in Ireland, you blokes are anything but innocent!

Geezah
07-22-2004, 03:01 PM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

Proof?
Read a history book!! 700 hundred years of British occupation/terrorism in Ireland, you blokes are anything but innocent!

Sorry I thought he was talking about the RUC and British Army which led me to believe it was within....say a 40yr time span not 700 :cantbeli:

Maybe while I'm reading a his-story book maybe you might want to read the whole thread before responding ;)

moughoun
07-22-2004, 04:44 PM
Just to throw my bit in, being the only Irish person here, the modern IRA is no where near the same thing as the "old" IRA, the new version has as much hostility to the Republic as it does to the UK, they do not recognise the legitamacy of the Irish government, Garda, or Defence Forces, to them they are the "true" custodian's of the national government formed after the liberation but, they were defeated in the civil war, and have had no compunction about murdering soldier's and police in the Republic, they are dispised by the military here, because of this and the fact that they wear our insignia and claim to be the legitimate Army of the Republic, which to be quiet honest sickening to us

Hydro
07-22-2004, 05:14 PM
the fact that they wear our insignia and claim to be the legitimate Army of the Republic, which to be quiet honest sickening to us

They've always wanted PoW status, as they considered themselves "proper" soldiers fighting a real "war". Luckily the British Government refused to recognise them (damn right, too), else we could've rolled over the Province in Challengers, with Lynx gunships putting TOW's through players houses. If they wanted a real war, then...

futurepilot2004
07-22-2004, 08:05 PM
As the only other Irish person here, I felt it nessecery to respond.
The people who post comments here and elsewhere in support of the provisional IRA(or real or continuity IRA) are generally forth and fifth generation Irish living in the US or Australia. The IRA sicken the vast majority of "actual" Irish people who have had to live with terrorism for 35 years.While some in this country favour the ideal of a united island, this stops well short of support for dispicable acts such as the bombing campaigns in Northern Ireland or England.
As a member of the Irish Defence Forces(the legitimate Army of the Republic of Ireland), it sickens me to see the IRA killing and maiming in the name of my country and my countrys` flag( which is actually meant to symbolise the desire for peace between protestants and catholic )

Sayeret
07-22-2004, 08:59 PM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

The British never targeted civilians, sometimes civilians might be killed by them but it was never done purposely.

moughoun
07-22-2004, 09:19 PM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

The British never targeted civilians, sometimes civilians might be killed by them but it was never done purposely.

I wouldn't say the British targeted civilian's as a whole, but some small group's in certain unit's and individual's did

PsihoKeke
07-23-2004, 03:01 AM
the fact that they wear our insignia and claim to be the legitimate Army of the Republic, which to be quiet honest sickening to us

They've always wanted PoW status, as they considered themselves "proper" soldiers fighting a real "war". Luckily the British Government refused to recognise them (damn right, too), else we could've rolled over the Province in Challengers, with Lynx gunships putting TOW's through players houses. If they wanted a real war, then...
They considered themselves soldiers but couldn't stomach the dying part. Every time one of theirs got killed Sinn Fein and IRSP acused the Brits of ''shoot to kill'' policy. I remember McGlinchy case, when this ex INLA leader was murdered by members of splinter cell, but his collegues acused SAS of doing it.

moughoun
07-23-2004, 03:11 PM
the fact that they wear our insignia and claim to be the legitimate Army of the Republic, which to be quiet honest sickening to us

They've always wanted PoW status, as they considered themselves "proper" soldiers fighting a real "war". Luckily the British Government refused to recognise them (damn right, too), else we could've rolled over the Province in Challengers, with Lynx gunships putting TOW's through players houses. If they wanted a real war, then...
They considered themselves soldiers but couldn't stomach the dying part. Every time one of theirs got killed Sinn Fein and IRSP acused the Brits of ''shoot to kill'' policy. I remember McGlinchy case, when this ex INLA leader was murdered by members of splinter cell, but his collegues acused SAS of doing it.

Just for a piece of pointless trivia, the place where Dominic McGlinchey was arrested after the shootout' is about 5 minutes walk from my house in Newmarket :)

Tom The Hunter
07-23-2004, 03:15 PM
I am a Catholoic, and I can not share the persecution of Catholics in Northern ireland.

Geezah
08-05-2004, 03:35 PM
I am a Catholoic, and I can not share the persecution of Catholics in Northern ireland.

I guess you must feel terrible about the Spanish Inquisition then ;)

ronin2172
08-05-2004, 04:47 PM
wow now we r on to brit bashing...man :cantbeli:

Ngati Tumatauenga
08-05-2004, 04:56 PM
tom the hunter wrote,

It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

First rule of fight club; If you're going to make definitive statements dissing another country then you'd better have the evidence to back it up. And no 'because i said so' doesn't count as evidence.

If you can't back your statements up with facts then your input is worthless, and shall be treated as such.

oldsoak
08-05-2004, 08:01 PM
I dont dispute that innocents found themselves getting short shrift in NI. It would be nice to say we held all the moral cards etc. but it would not be true. At the end of the day, a political solution had to be found and we've got that - not a perfect solution, but something to go on. Our mistakes were not to remove a lot of discriminatory practices and failing to sufficiently cultivate the SDLP thereby pushing militant Nationalists into the backing the PIRA. End result - we made a job for ourselves that we need not have done and we lost a lot of good blokes. Had we done so, we could have saved a lot of lives and stunted the IRA. This has to be the lesson that everyone must learn in that sort of conflict - there must be a political solution. You have to give the next generation something better than resentment or you'll be forever fighting.

Tom The Hunter
08-06-2004, 10:44 AM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

Proof?
Read a history book!! 700 hundred years of British occupation/terrorism in Ireland, you blokes are anything but innocent!

Sorry I thought he was talking about the RUC and British Army which led me to believe it was within....say a 40yr time span not 700 :cantbeli:

Maybe while I'm reading a his-story book maybe you might want to read the whole thread before responding ;)

What a damned hypocrite!
The behaviour of RUC and B.A in Ireland, is full of shamefull terrorist acts against civilian population!

Tom The Hunter
08-06-2004, 10:46 AM
the fact that they wear our insignia and claim to be the legitimate Army of the Republic, which to be quiet honest sickening to us

They've always wanted PoW status, as they considered themselves "proper" soldiers fighting a real "war". Luckily the British Government refused to recognise them (damn right, too), else we could've rolled over the Province in Challengers, with Lynx gunships putting TOW's through players houses. If they wanted a real war, then...

But during WWI, Brittish army was the first to violate the Aja and Geneve convention. They used to fight with enemie's uniforms! And other terrorist maners.

Tom The Hunter
08-06-2004, 10:47 AM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

The British never targeted civilians, sometimes civilians might be killed by them but it was never done purposely.

yeah yeah! I know1
As palestinian children are killed only some times!
I understand that a brittish can be unsensible to humal life, but a Jew, with all what you suffered...

Tom The Hunter
08-06-2004, 10:49 AM
I am a Catholoic, and I can not share the persecution of Catholics in Northern ireland.

I guess you must feel terrible about the Spanish Inquisition then ;)

Not worst than SALEM, or the extermination of million upon million indigens committed by britts!

Roger Rabbit
08-06-2004, 10:53 AM
I am a Catholoic, and I can not share the persecution of Catholics in Northern ireland.

I guess you must feel terrible about the Spanish Inquisition then ;)

Not worst than SALEM, or the extermination of million upon million indigens committed by britts!

Could you point me in the right direction as to where i can find more infomation about the British extermination of millions of indigenous people?

moughoun
08-06-2004, 11:01 AM
I don't understand what Tom the hunter's getting at, he seem's to be mixing fact with fiction?

oldsoak
08-06-2004, 11:22 AM
Years ago I was down in Kerry and was told stories from the other side of the fence as it were - Roger Casement, Childers, the civil war, dont vote for Devs party etc etc by some relations of a friend I was staying with. I always rember the quote "History should be taught as a lesson, not used as a rebuke ". Very wise I thought.

Geezah
08-06-2004, 11:37 AM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

Proof?
Read a history book!! 700 hundred years of British occupation/terrorism in Ireland, you blokes are anything but innocent!

Sorry I thought he was talking about the RUC and British Army which led me to believe it was within....say a 40yr time span not 700 :cantbeli:

Maybe while I'm reading a his-story book maybe you might want to read the whole thread before responding ;)


What a damned hypocrite!
The behaviour of RUC and B.A in Ireland, is full of shamefull terrorist acts against civilian population!

Maybe you didn't see it the first time,

PROOF?

Gringo
08-06-2004, 11:46 AM
It is well known that in Norther ireland, British Army and RUC used tortures, killing and every sort of illegitime mean!
Lot of these facts, had been accepted by British Courts!

Proof?
Read a history book!! 700 hundred years of British occupation/terrorism in Ireland, you blokes are anything but innocent!

Sorry I thought he was talking about the RUC and British Army which led me to believe it was within....say a 40yr time span not 700 :cantbeli:

Maybe while I'm reading a his-story book maybe you might want to read the whole thread before responding ;)

What a damned hypocrite!
The behaviour of RUC and B.A in Ireland, is full of shamefull terrorist acts against civilian population!

Oh and suppose the IRA were only murdered all of those civilians by mistake?

Geezah
08-06-2004, 11:47 AM
I am a Catholoic, and I can not share the persecution of Catholics in Northern ireland.

I guess you must feel terrible about the Spanish Inquisition then ;)

Not worst than SALEM, or the extermination of million upon million indigens committed by britts!

Hmmmmm.........you my friend are truly smoking CRACK the Spanish Inquisition was carried out by the Catholic Church and mainly targeted Jewish people :cantbeli: by the way only 25 people were executed during the Salem Witch Hunt ;)

Fee Fi Fo Fum
08-06-2004, 11:49 AM
Tom the hunter dont half chat some crap! HOW ABOUT SOME PROOF!

ronin2172
08-06-2004, 12:53 PM
fellas ...there's an old saying ignore ignorance and it goes away...he is obviously speaking out of his ass, so debating or trying to rationaly point out the flaws in his arguement r pointless. In his heart he truly believes what he is saying and no amount of logic or fact is going to dissuade him from his illogical and non factual POV.

Tom stop being a tool read a book or two (a valid history book, not propoganda) come up with facts to back up your claim then talk smack...otherwise every time u open your mouth u prove how dumb u really are.

Fee Fi Fo Fum
08-06-2004, 01:58 PM
fellas ...there's an old saying ignore ignorance and it goes away...he is obviously speaking out of his ass, so debating or trying to rationaly point out the flaws in his arguement r pointless. In his heart he truly believes what he is saying and no amount of logic or fact is going to dissuade him from his illogical and non factual POV.

Tom stop being a tool read a book or two (a valid history book, not propoganda) come up with facts to back up your claim then talk smack...otherwise every time u open your mouth u prove how dumb u really are.

Well said.... :)

Durandal
08-06-2004, 04:38 PM
[Hmmmmm.........you my friend are truly smoking CRACK

Missed your reply here...I'll keep my post though. I like it. With that said, don't waste your breath with this guy. He ain't all there.

With that said, when are we going shooting brother? I am back from vacation and am ready any weekend you are till October.

Cheers!