Spain insists in the mistakes of the past: New Desert "digital" pattern and uniform

[miguelencanarias]

Now that it is official, allow me to repeat what I have been saying in different threads about this subject:

What a lost opportunity! The Spanish Army has fielded a new desert pattern and uniform that (at least in my opinion) is a huge disappointment.

First, they claim this is a "pixelated" pattern. Well, no, it is not. It is just a standard pattern (one not particularly good at that, by the way) that they call "pixelated" because maybe some edges have been squared. But this is not what pixelation is about, and they should know better. When compared to actual digital patterns (even the older ones like MARPAT or CADPAT), this new pattern is a monumental failure.

Then, they said the cut would be wider to make it look closer to the US Army combat uniform. Again: no, it is not. We persist in having a very tight cut, particularly in the pants, making them uncomfortable as hell, ****e to ripping off at the seams, blocking perspiration, diminishing the blending properties of the camo pattern and, in a more frivolous aspect, looking bad on even slightly overweight soldiers.

So apparently we haven't learnt **** from other armies.

Find here the complete, large size picture: http://www.mde.es/Galerias/gabinete/multimedia/fototeca/imagen/2010/02/DGC_100227_uniforme_pixelado_G.jpg

[Dercius]

You are 100% right, but on the other hand with this one you can go "Marcando Paquetorro" ;)

[miguelencanarias]

You are 100% right, but on the other hand with this one you can go "Marcando Paquetorro" ;)

Note to the non-Spanish speakers: "Marcando paquetorro" means "showing off your package".

... or lack thereof...

[JVeld]

Well.....Im sorry for you guys Miguel, I dont think i could move with those super skinny and tight pants lol, I need some room......specially when you are in the field, we rip our pants as it is now so I couldnt imagine that .....

[JVeld]

................

[Britishhawk]

What is it for? Afghanistan? or general rollout to all troops?

[miguelencanarias]

All forces (Army, Navy and Air Force). Two patterns, one arid and one woodland.

[Seek]

Pattern looks good IMO. much better than Chocolate chip and will blend in nicely with a dessert surrounding. don't know about afghanistan though. nothing seems to work there properly, because the terrain is too diverse.

The cut hasn't changed much, but thets the way in most european armies. Seems to look good on the female soldiers though... ;-)

[KEEPER0311]

Those look tighter then my dress uniform trousers. Can imagine trying to stay kneeling for any amount of time.

[miguelencanarias]

Seems to look good on the female soldiers though

While I advocate for finally cutting the crap and issuing female soldiers with spandex uniforms (which is what we all secretly want), you must admit that when it comes to practical purposes, the tight cut is way more uncomfortable than the superwide old US BDU. Regardless of what other European armies do.

[Seek]

I tried BDU-pants on a camping trip once, and i must say, that I'm not fully convinced of the usefulness of a wider cut. especially when having heavier objects in your thigh pockets. Had to pull them up a couple of times...
German trousers work just fine for me, in any kind of movement. And they're not baggy at all. Maybe that's just a matter of getting used to it. or picking the right size... ;)

111985

(this is not me, just an example)

[LineDoggie]

I tried BDU-pants on a camping trip once, and i must say, that I'm not fully convinced of the usefulness of a wider cut. especially when having heavier objects in your thigh pockets. Had to pull them up a couple of times... Try using a Belt next time.....

[scttgillies]

While I advocate for finally cutting the crap and issuing female soldiers with spandex uniforms (which is what we all secretly want), you must admit that when it comes to practical purposes, the tight cut is way more uncomfortable than the superwide old US BDU. Regardless of what other European armies do.

Please god no, have you seen some of the female soldiers that serve. Pucka swamp donkey pig gorilla frog monsters. though there are some fit ones, most of the ones i know could sniff for explosives at the airport.
But on the cut of combats, doesnt the idea that combat trousers should be baggy, to break up outline and the such.

[Arnie100]

Did the Spanish soldiers have an actual say in the development of this BDU, miguelencanarias?

[NavyTimes]

most of the ones i know could sniff for explosives at the airport..


Hahah, you're a terrible human. :D

[miguelencanarias]

Did the Spanish soldiers have an actual say in the development of this BDU, miguelencanarias?

As far as I know, none whatsoever.

[stuntman]

I'll be honest. I don't like the cut. I think the pattern is very nice and will blend in perfectly. It is a nice updated look for Spanish forces. I thought you guys were getting acu's. Dam I was going to give you crap for that one.

[miguelencanarias]

I'll be honest. I don't like the cut. I think the pattern is very nice and will blend in perfectly. It is a nice updated look for Spanish forces. I thought you guys were getting acu's. Dam I was going to give you crap for that one.

Well, of course when one considers that we might have ended up with ACU, any pattern would look like something weaved by the Elves. But still...

[joemanu]

I don't agree about the pattern. Seems like a huge improvement over the chocolate chip and much better than ACU, but I have to agree with you on the cut. It is not only going to be uncomfortable, it is also going to be dangerous to send our men to dangerous places when they are distracted by the camel toe contest that will start whenever any female troops show up.

[miguelencanarias]

distracted by the camel toe contest that will start whenever any female troops show up.

Extra points for Joemanu for being both funny and accurate.

[miguelencanarias]

Seems like a huge improvement over the chocolate chip and much better than ACUAnything is an improvement over the chocolate chip. Not to mention ACU, that goes without saying. But let's face it: you like the pattern because deep inside you there is an airsofter fighting to come out, and the pattern is strongly influenced by multicam.

[joemanu]

It is true I hate chocolate chip but that is only a fraction of how much I hate our current and future woodland patterns, you are also right in spotting the multicam lover, but I have to dissapoint you on the other thing. It has never crossed my mind to play soldier with toy guns. I gave some thought to joining the voluntary reserve once they finaly opened that door, but I can't afford a divorce, so I had to drop the idea.

[miguelencanarias]

I concur: the woodland pattern is even worse. Basically, they took multicam, changed the colors and ended up with a monumental WTF pattern.

[Seek]

Try using a Belt next time.....
I never leave home wthout a belt...

[ayanami_tard]

I don't agree about the pattern. Seems like a huge improvement over the chocolate chip and much better than ACU, but I have to agree with you on the cut. It is not only going to be uncomfortable, it is also going to be dangerous to send our men to dangerous places when they are distracted by the camel toe contest that will start whenever any female troops show up.

rofl...............

[MJC9678]

This is what happens when Ermenegildo Zegna designs your military uniforms......plum smuggling troops...

[stuntman]

I concur: the woodland pattern is even worse. Basically, they took multicam, changed the colors and ended up with a monumental WTF pattern.

I am sorry. I find that camo actually very nice. I rather it be a little lighter. Other then that consider your military men/women lucky.

[joemanu]

The uniform in general es not bad. The design es quite good actually. If you look at the collar and the pockets it is obvious they have based it in the US Army uniform, but as you have correctly pointed out it is way too dark, especially for the Mediterranean woodland that is the predominant landscape in Spain. Who knows, maybe they think we are only going to have to fight in distant jungles. The tight cut is also a problem, as it doesn't help brake the soldier's silouette.

[miguelencanarias]

One of the many details that make a pattern effective is some contrast between dark and light tones. In this pattern, all colours are way too dark and similar, so from a distance they look like a solid blotch of (very) dark green, which I don't find too useful in the Mediterranean Spain. You can notice this looking at the thumbnail in my post.

[Hammer27]

Anything is an improvement over the chocolate chip. Not to mention ACU, that goes without saying. But let's face it: you like the pattern because deep inside you there is an airsofter fighting to come out, and the pattern is strongly influenced by multicam.

lol It certainly looks like a modded Multicam

[miguelencanarias]

lol It certainly looks like a modded MulticamThat's because it is.

[Lasse]

And what's wrong with that? It looks like a really great pattern, especially the woodland one.

If your problem is that you think airsoft when you see it, then you have some issues...

[miguelencanarias]

And what's wrong with that? It looks like a really great pattern, especially the woodland one.

If your problem is that you think airsoft when you see it, then you have some issues...

Maybe you should read my posts more carefully. If you do, you will notice that my problems with the pattern and uniform are manifold, but its possible association with airsoft or multicam is not one of them.

Or maybe is it you who has issues with your reading and understanding capabilities?

[Lasse]

Maybe you should read my posts more carefully. If you do, you will notice that my problem with the pattern and uniform are manifold, but its possible association with airsoft or multicam is not one of them.

Or maybe is it you who has issues with your reading and understanding capabilities?No es cannot le reading... I just disagree with you... Of course it might not be perfect, but how do you make 1 pattern that is perfect for the entire country of Italy? You simply cannot do that and end up with an effective result. It might be too dark in some areas, too light in others, and maybe on the spot in different places. About the colors being too dark\contrasted, I don't think that's a problem except for the black color which I am no fan of (because that's what I always spot first, because it's un-natural).

From what I understand, you want your Government to spend gazillion dollars trying to develop an entirely new magical pattern which is too awesome for the world to see (it's suppose to be camo, so that would be the ultimate goal), instead of ending up with a probably relatively cheap and effective solution.

[joemanu]

And what's wrong with that? It looks like a really great pattern, especially the woodland one.

Maybe it is great for the Scandinavian woods, but for Mediterranian Europe it is too dark and, as Miguel already mentioned, it lacks contrast between the colours. I bet the old solid olive green is more effective than this one and the derivatives of the lima ERDL we have been using since they started issuing camo uniforms.

What infuriates me the most is that they probably have spent a lot of money to come up with this, when they only had to adopt any of the suitable patterns already in use for a fraction of the money. Hell, if you ask me we should have adopted the vegetato made by the Italians, those masters of cool design.

[miguelencanarias]

What I want my country to do is some simple research, the kind you can do with a computer and an internet connection. If you have a Ministry's order for a pixelated pattern in a wide cut uniform, get a pixelated pattern (R&D doesn't cost gazillions, as countries like Colombia, Latvia and many others have effective - and entirely new - patterns) and a wide cut uniform, instead of a traditional thing with stupid squared-off edges and the same tight cut you have had for so many years.

As much as I have poked fun at Guy Cramer in the past, many of his patterns are way more close to home than these new patterns we are being saddled up with.

[miguelencanarias]

(...) if you ask me we should have adopted the vegetato made by the Italians, those masters of cool design.Totally agree.

[miguelencanarias]

I kind of miss this:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/camouniforms/ima/laga22.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1158/homenajealoscaidosnz0.jpg

[Yarrick2]

i like that pattern and that beard.

[miguelencanarias]

What about the footwear?

[chassem]

CADPAT is very effective at hiding a LOT of fat, trust me. LOL

[carolvs]

Looks everyone will have to wear their uniforms 2 sizes larger than normal.

[miguelencanarias]

Yes, that's one of many problems we have. Imagine you are sent to A-stan. It's freezing cold. How do you wear cold weather clothing behind your uniform and still manage to close your pants buttons?

[junglejim]

Doesnt matter as long as ya look damn sexeh!

[miguelencanarias]

Doesnt matter as long as ya look damn sexeh!

Hell yeah... I guess...

http://www.liubamariahevia.arrakis.es/spainfemalesoldiers.jpg

[junglejim]

That pict will never get old. When i die, i want to be reincarnated as female Spanish army uniform.

[miguelencanarias]

That pict will never get old. When i die, i want to be reincarnated as female Spanish army uniform.

With your luck, you will end up reincarnated as a male Spanish army uniform.

[scttgillies]

Hell yeah... I guess...

http://www.liubamariahevia.arrakis.es/spainfemalesoldiers.jpg

How come you get army chicks like that

112603most of the ones we get are like her.

[miguelencanarias]

Invalid attachment. Could you upload it again?

[scttgillies]

Yes most of the ones i know look like that, but seriously, there are some well beautiful female soldiers. You just need to know that Englands Miss World entry was a serving soldier.

112610

[miguelencanarias]

Well, fvck me sideways: to top this whole new uniform disaster, there could be a lawsuit for copyright infringement (http://soldiersystems.net/2010/03/09/new-spanish-camo/)!

Well, if it helps to backpedal and go for a real digital national pattern, as far as I am concerned all is well that ends well.

[mimmo1196]

I am very surprise that the Italian Army develop two digital camo and did not follow the "fashion of Multicam".

113402 113403

I think that for Spain army was a big mistake! I never wear a digital camo in action but I think it works better than traditional ones....
Of course depend on the color, I am thinking at CADPAT and MARPAT.

[miguelencanarias]

I think that for Spain army was a big mistake!
Welcome to the club. We have jackets.

[Catch22]

Welcome to the club. We have jackets.

...and club ties. All that in camo print infringing rights of a certain individual.

[miguelencanarias]

...and club ties. All that in camo print infringing rights of a certain individual.

You and your wild imagination. There is absolutely no resemblance between the "new" Spanish "digital" pattern and any other around the world...

[sgt_G]

I kind of miss this:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/camouniforms/ima/laga22.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1158/homenajealoscaidosnz0.jpg

argh the dreaded red X!!!

[miguelencanarias]

Do you mean the Cruz de Borgoña?

[miguelencanarias]

Take a good look at this. We had these beauties since 1973 (M73 Lagarto - lizard), and then some stupid decided to ditch them and adopt the freaking six colour choco chip pattern (which had already been considered uneffective).

Just because.

We are special.

http://www.step.es/personales/jlarena/coe1.jpg
http://www.step.es/personales/jlarena/coe2.jpg

Special thanks to my countryman Santiago Medina, who provided these pictures.

[brainplay]

Dude seriously...what's with the open chest deal? I mean, on the women, fine. But come on! When I was over there in 94' we ran into some legionnaires in those nice green uniforms. I thought they were flaunting standards but no, it was official. Most had no upper button. rofl

[miguelencanarias]

Dude seriously...what's with the open chest deal? I mean, on the women, fine. But come on! When I was over there in 94' we ran into some legionnaires in those nice green uniforms. I thought they were flaunting standards but no, it was official. Most had no upper button. rofl

I know, I know, but it is part of the ethos of a few Spanish elite units like (particularly but not exclusively) the Legion. It dates back to the African wars and it has to do with masculine bravado, disregard for other less prestigious but more by-the-book units and - possibly - the African heat. Consider it akin to IDF's informal spirit of profesionalism unecumbered by uptightness. In exchange for being allowed to wear their shirts like that, they are subjected to a brutally gruelling training and service, and take-no-shyte internal discipline.

Those two pictures in particular are not of Legionarios but COEs - guerrilla warfare special units - in the mid 80's.

To the foreign eye (and sometimes, I admit, to ours too) it looks like something bordering insubordination, but it is the way it is. Almost as difficult to explain as the facial hair grooming standards in those same units (only that in that case, the tradition dates back to the Tercios' days in the XVII-XVIII Centuries).

http://amigosdeltercertercio.com/fuerteventura/html/images/F%2005.jpg

[z_bumbi]

Maybe it is great for the Scandinavian woods, but for Mediterranian Europe it is too dark and, as Miguel already mentioned, it lacks contrast between the colours.

From the photo in this thread it looks to dark for most of the nordic region.
Exibit A M90 (Sweden) in this thread. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?80688-splinter-pattern-camouflage

[STGN]

Well thats one indoor photo what does it look like outside, might be dark but after some sunshine and a couple of washings is should be okay.
STGN

[ICUS]

I do not mind the pattern so much as the uniform design, but of course Manuel I share your nostalgia for the traditional Spanish patterns of the 1970s.

[miguelencanarias]

That would be Miguel, right? Not Manuel

[ICUS]

Yes, sorry about that! Fingers working faster than my brain, I guess.

[miguelencanarias]

Amoeba patterns were effective and served the purpose of national identification. Hell, they even looked cool. I fail to see the reason for their phasing out. NATO compliance is certainly not the reason, since not all European patterns looked like woodland in the mid-eighties. Improvement isn't the reason either, considering the mediocre patterns adopted later. All Spain had to do was update the cut and design of the uniforms.

Anyway, what can you do.

[sgt_G]

I think you are doing it. I know complaining to the right peoplke don't help...seems all you get is a "thank you type" form letter...

[miguelencanarias]

I think you are doing it. I know complaining to the right peoplke don't help...seems all you get is a "thank you type" form letter...

In the late 90s I wrote an e-mail to the Spanish Defense Ministry pointing out the ventilation and comfort problems of tightly cut uniforms. It happened EXACTLY as you say: I got a polite 'Thanks, duly noted, now fvck off' letter.

[miguelencanarias]

First picture of the final woodland version of the new "digital" (yeah, with big air quotation marks) uniform of the Spanish Army:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4250/dgc101123pcami01g.jpg

I just want to die.

[Quantenjaeger]

The desert version looks like a bleached multicam copy, but i can find no words to describe the "woodland" thing....:cantbeli:

well, at least you have decent guns!

[miguelencanarias]

Skip to the end and you can see a better image of the pattern. It is multicam with a colour set designed to cancel off any advantage multicam might have had. Bravo:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6mRzf1ORmg&feature=player_embedded

Here:

144117

[stuntman]

I am sorry but, I have no idea what's your problem with the camo. I wish here in the US we would adopt something like this. The wood land could use a lighter green but the desert is spot on..

[miguelencanarias]

I mentioned this many times before, stuntman, but here it is again: first, the appropiation order called for a digital pixelated pattern, which is not. It is a bad copy of multicam with the colours replaced, they simply squared off the edges so they could pass as "pixelated". We had the opportunity to come up with a great, effective pattern for the next 15 years and we blew it. Second, the colours in the woodland pattern are too dark for the mediterranean theater of operations (actually, it is dark for almost every theater in the world). Third, there is almost no contrast, turning the pattern into a solid dark green even at short distances, rendering the camo properties ineffective. Last but not least, the ministerial order also called for a wide cut so it would be more comfortable (as opposed to the very tight cut favored before), but they have kept the tight cut regardless.

The way I see it: a great opportunity has been lost, and for no real reason.