South-Africa,'Defiant white ratepayers: Government has plan'

[Dwelm]

The government doesn't have a concrete plan to deal with ratepayers who are withholding payments for municipal services, apart from "engaging" with them.

On Wednesday Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Minister Sicelo Shiceka told journalists that white ratepayer associations had created "a parallel government" and were undermining the ability of municipalities to deliver services.

"We have discovered that over 280 ratepayers' (associations) in South Africa - which unfortunately are white organisations - have created a parallel government. They take the money instead of paying service to municipalities and put it in a trust account. That undermines the ability of municipalities to deliver services."

He said the government wanted to engage with everybody to sort out municipal problems.

The chairperson of the national taxpayers' union, Jaap Kelder, confirmed Shiceka's statements. He said hundreds of associations were hiring companies to deliver the services that the municipalities were failing to deliver.

He said his was an umbrella body. Of the 325 associations, 70 had declared disputes with their municipalities, while in 40 towns ratepayers were withholding payments. The withheld funds were put in a trust fund and residents would then use it hire companies to deliver services.

"People have been laying complaints with municipalities for years, but were ignored. They have been paying their accounts without getting the service," he said.

He challenged Shiceka to use his powers to get municipalities to deliver efficiently.

But constitutional law expert Pierre de Vos said it was illegal for ratepayers not to pay taxes and or rates. He said the ratepayer could take up the lack of or poor service delivery politically or with the courts.

"They can't unilaterally decide to bypass the law."

Local Government MEC Anton Bredell said there was no such problem in the Western Cape.

Shiceka's spokesperson Vuyelwa Qinga told the Cape Argus last night that Shiceka would continue to engage with white ratepayers until sustainable solutions were found.



http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=594&art_id=vn20100304123238976C168448

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=384711

[Rudolph]

Ja, well. I got a smirk on my face reading this. You can take away our political power, but we'll still have things run our way through innovation. FU ANC.

[2495]

If they want the cash, they got to deliver the goods. No goods, no green back.

[Dwelm]

FU ANC.

I like
X ∞

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

Raaaaacism! First!

[Synthe]

why didn't most whites emigrate out yet??

[OrangeWolf]

why didn't most whites emigrate out yet??

Financial reasons, it isn't easy to go abroad, I checked it for a South African who wanted to come to the Netherlands, it is hard. Either you (or your family) needs a lot of cash, or you need a very good education which is highly demanded in the place you want to emigrate to.

And then if you emigrate you must be happy if you will find a stable job which isn't always a guarantee.

And lastly, South Africa is their country, the reason South Africa is where it is today (I am not talking about the ANC mess, but the infrastructure, universities and it's relative wealth) is because of them.

[wilhelm]

why didn't most whites emigrate out yet??

Becuase there are more white people in South africa than the entire population of Ireland. Or new Zealand.. It has similar numbers of white people as the entire population of Denmark. The majority of white people live a quality of life similar to Europeans, although less so in some aspects, and more so in others.

There are many white South Africans that trace their history back in South Africa all the way back to the mid 1600's. Cape Town, for example, was founded before New York.

On topic, it's about time this happened, as the ANC are basically just a pack of criminals. Almost all ANC municipalities are bankrupt due to rampant theft from the cleaner up to the mayor. As much as it pains me to say this, it appears to be endemic in certain cultures. I'm not sure how to stop this, unless you start punishing those who are guilty very heavily. This would bring down accusations of racism. This is how Africa is......

[Marshall_Nord]

And lastly, South Africa is their country, the reason South Africa is where it is today (I am not talking about the ANC mess, but the infrastructure, universities and it's relative wealth) is because of them.

QFT! My company use to buy Saftronics PLC's back in the early 90's before the new "gubment" went full force.

[wilhelm]

And lastly, South Africa is their country, the reason South Africa is where it is today (I am not talking about the ANC mess, but the infrastructure, universities and it's relative wealth) is because of them.

Precisely. Cast your eyes north of South Africa's borders to see what the rest of the continent looks like. Somewhere between the Stone Age and the Middle Ages. (and I'm being optimistic here)

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

I would say money is probably the largest barrier to many white Africans from leaving.

Imagine the mess in Zimbabwe with the currency valued at next to nothing and what country/bank wants to have African currency???

I will also mention that if black Africans can go to Europe and the US and live in freedom, own land/property, receive gov't benefits/educations etc. than white Africans are ENTITLED to the same rights regardless of what their forefathers have done. This goes especially for younger generations who might have been too young or never lived under apartheid or other racial segregating institutions (though, in some ways, things were probably "better" for white Africans then...).

You must also realize at some point these people's culture is no longer "European"; I probably have more in common being a white guy in Texas with these white Africans than I do my forefathers in E. Europe and my mother's originating in the UK and Ireland...

[Rudolph]

You must also realize at some point these people's culture is no longer "European"; I probably have more in common being a white guy in Texas with these white Africans than I do my forefathers in E. Europe and my mother's originating in the UK and Ireland...

Firstly, I'd like to say that we're not sleeping at the Waterfront waiting for the first boat to take us from this country. We're here because this is our home. That's it. Secondly, you're absolutely right, we keep reading articles about all the whites who came back to South Africa after emigrating, because they couldn't adapt to European culture. UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the USA seems to have worked out best for those who left. Many whites are more like the Southern Americans, like the Texans, probably another reason a bunch of families settles there after the Boer War.

[IconOfEvi]

So I assume most Rhodies went to UK after the war?

Im sympathetic to this whole thing, similar **** happened to us. Family is all over the world really cause of Idi Amin and general Africanization sweeping the continent.

[Rudolph]

So I assume most Rhodies went to UK after the war?

Im sympathetic to this whole thing, similar **** happened to us. Family is all over the world really cause of Idi Amin and general Africanization sweeping the continent.

Most Rhodesians went to South Africa, and live in the Southern part of Cape Town. That's where Ian Smith also stayed when in SA.

[seraosha]

My wife's school has quite a few South Africans, the kids integrate quickly, the parents are involved in PTO and seem to be happy as well...I think the soccer team I coach has a little girl from Jo'burg, good goalie.

Then again, this is Texas, and we like all sorts of people that look and talk funny ;)

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

Firstly, I'd like to say that we're not sleeping at the Waterfront waiting for the first boat to take us from this country. We're here because this is our home. That's it. Secondly, you're absolutely right, we keep reading articles about all the whites who came back to South Africa after emigrating, because they couldn't adapt to European culture. UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the USA seems to have worked out best for those who left. Many whites are more like the Southern Americans, like the Texans, probably another reason a bunch of families settles there after the Boer War.

I respect African whites, I cannot imagine living under that sort of invisible umbrella of hate and disdain...then again, I dunno, maybe my Texas will be like that eventually. Probably not though but demographics have changed SIGNIFICANTLY in my 26 years.

I just think Africa is your home...why should you be forced to live under fear and adverse conditions when African peoples abroad (for the MOST PART) do not have these worries. They can freely live, marry, work, own property, etc. no exceptions. But the African gov'ts want to blame all ills on the whites to detract from their failed reforms. Not to mention a lot of the black Africans are still angry and harbor violence and hate against their white neighbors.

Basically, the generations now, its not their fault their forefathers went to Africa, regardless of what they did, but now its their HOMELAND. Period. They should be entitled to every right as a black born African.

But we have the same problem with African-Americans. A huge number "get it" (if you know what I mean) while a HUGE amount just do not. If you try, study hard, work hard etc. then you will be among the elite who are very successful (even surpassing, gasp, the "whites" in terms of personal success) especially with systems in place like affirmative action, minority owned business rules, discrimination laws and the fact that decrying racism at the drop of a hat for any situation, has now become not only appropriate BUT to be expected from both the black and white communities in ANY situation regardless of how ridiculous and/or untrue it is...:(

[Rudolph]

Shiceka 'declaring war on whites'
2010-03-08 21:34


Johannesburg - Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Minister Sicelo Shiceka (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/user/5689)'s "declaration of war" against white South Africans shows his lack of understanding of the problems in the country's municipalities, the National Taxpayers' Union's North West branch said on Monday.
"Playing the racial card when 'the country is burning' will not improve your 'war zones' while all the people of this nation suffer," NTU North West chair Carin Visser wrote in an open letter to Shiceka.

Last week, Shiceka charged that white ratepayer associations had created "a parallel government" and were undermining municipalities’ ability to deliver services.

"They take the money instead of paying service to municipalities and put it in a trust account.

"That undermines ability of municipalities to deliver services."

'Ridiculous comparison'


Shiceka's office was not available on Monday to comment on the letter.

"We are being blamed for creating 'parallel structures of governance' next to completely dysfunctional structures. The comparison is ridiculous. Do you want us to accept raw sewage as a way of life?" asked Visser.

Ratepayers' associations had been formed because service delivery was in a chaotic state.

They had used the money they collected to repair and maintain essential services for the benefit of the whole community while "mayors and municipal managers were nowhere to be seen".

Visser said the government had been told about the problems, but had ignored them, neither acknowledging nor replying to letters and failing to attend meetings requested by ratepayers' associations.

'A revolt is rising'


"We are experiencing a government with insufficient capacity and integrity," she wrote. "We have to endure a government without skills and competence in all the departments."

Visser said the government was not aware of the magnitude of conflict in the country.

"Within the deteriorating conditions of the towns and townships a revolt is rising which cannot be ignored."

Protests over poor service delivery were spreading, becoming more violent and more frequent. "If the seething anger is not contained, violent protests could become a permanent way of life in our towns."

"Sending in the police force to control the revolt is not solving the problem, but only creating aggression. Address the reason for the revolt," Visser wrote, identifying fraud and corruption as major problems.

The race card


It was not wise to threaten legal action against people who were trying to improve their situation.

"...You will be creating a backlash from all the ordinary men and women in the street which you will regret in the days to come," she warned.

In a separate letter posted on the internet, its author Francois Roux asked whether Shiceka had considered that whites' actions might have "just a little bit to do with mismanagement of funds".

Shiceka had no problem overlooking destruction of property during violent protests over service delivery, to make illegal connections or because it was sub-standard.

"But heaven forbid, let just 280 white ratepayers withhold their rates, exactly because they are unhappy about this whole situation, then it's a huge problem."

Roux doubted that violent protests over services would ever stop with an attitude such as Shiceka's. "You are getting what you deserve," he said.

Democratic Alliance co-operative governance spokesperson Willem Doman (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/user/4001) last week labelled Shiceka's raising of the issue as "just another example of the (ANC) using the race card to deflect attention away from the real concerns of ordinary South Africans.

"If the ANC is serious about dealing with service delivery protests, then the best thing they could do is start to deliver services," he said.


- SAPA

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/Politics/1057/1787642e3a744fd2b6f06e7bb85ad804/08-03-2010-09-34/Shiceka_declaring_war_on_whites

[Dwelm]

113049

.............

[ren0312]

nvm..........................................................

[baboon6]

Most Rhodesians went to South Africa, and live in the Southern part of Cape Town. That's where Ian Smith also stayed when in SA.

A lot in Natal as well. And quite a few here in Joburg too.

[Dinges]

We as rate payers might have something to complain about. Try brushing your teeth in this:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8182/10032010140r.jpg

[RSone]

Financial reasons, it isn't easy to go abroad, I checked it for a South African who wanted to come to the Netherlands, it is hard. Either you (or your family) needs a lot of cash, or you need a very good education which is highly demanded in the place you want to emigrate to.

And then if you emigrate you must be happy if you will find a stable job which isn't always a guarantee.

And lastly, South Africa is their country, the reason South Africa is where it is today (I am not talking about the ANC mess, but the infrastructure, universities and it's relative wealth) is because of them.

Can't we make it easier on Afrikaners wanting to come? They are western, non-islamic immigrants, generally with good education, they speak just about the same language(mutually intelligble to a large extent), AND there is a bloody ethnic link between our people.

[Dinges]

Can't we make it easier on Afrikaners wanting to come? They are western, non-islamic immigrants, generally with good education, they speak just about the same language(mutually intelligble to a large extent), AND there is a bloody ethnic link between our people.

Do you want to run that argument by your politicians? I know and you know - it is a non starter. Ons is hier op ons eie , en niemand gaan help.

[OrangeWolf]

Can't we make it easier on Afrikaners wanting to come? They are western, non-islamic immigrants, generally with good education, they speak just about the same language(mutually intelligble to a large extent), AND there is a bloody ethnic link between our people.

No, the Dutch government isn't doing anything to help them as far as I know. My friend would be just another African.:-|

We should have done so though. It's bad that a country has a brain drain, but I'd rather see skilled doctors in the Netherlands than in Canada.

I am not sure of a lil' country like the Netherlands would satisfy the Afrikaners though

[RSone]

No, the Dutch government isn't doing anything to help them as far as I know. My friend would be just another African.:-|

Den Haag for ya. They want more educated immigrants from western nations, but they don't actually do anything to encourage those immigrants to come.

[Rudolph]

A republican from Reagan's era wanted all the whites to move to America, especially the mid-west, to help boost certain areas. And he'd do it by the same way the Irish or Jewish people are recognized more by culture, etc., thereby allowing only the Afrikaners and English (therefore, whites) to emigrate... How do you ever justify or explain that on paper? This was about 2 years ago, and there was much interest in the local press over the prospect of a mass migration to the USA.

[kimujnr]

I thought South Africans had the easiest time acquiring visas and travelling abroad. I read that according to western countries the lower the rate of travel abroad from a certain country then the more likely its citizens are to get visas. SA was amongst this list of African countries, I guess it was wrong.

[Dwelm]

2010

why did we need Greenpoint ? we have Newlands.
now I read in a news paper to rent Greenpoint is going to be from R1.2m -R1.5m per game so Ajax Capetown will still play at Newlands for R50 000 per game

[Kant]

I like South Africans.
My local Rugby team is full of Saffas. But because ones our flyhalf, and I'm an outside centre I never see the ball (kick,kick,kick).
Having said that, if I had to brush my teeth in the water shown above, I'd be not only refusing to pay my rates, but sueing the pants off of the water department for endangering my health.

[baboon6]

I thought South Africans had the easiest time acquiring visas and travelling abroad. I read that according to western countries the lower the rate of travel abroad from a certain country then the more likely its citizens are to get visas. SA was amongst this list of African countries, I guess it was wrong.

Travelling abroad yes, moving abroad not necessarily. Took an acquaintance of mine nearly 10 years to get a Green Card (he's an actor).

[baboon6]

A republican from Reagan's era wanted all the whites to move to America, especially the mid-west, to help boost certain areas. And he'd do it by the same way the Irish or Jewish people are recognized more by culture, etc., thereby allowing only the Afrikaners and English (therefore, whites) to emigrate... How do you ever justify or explain that on paper? This was about 2 years ago, and there was much interest in the local press over the prospect of a mass migration to the USA.

I don't recall that at all.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

So let me get this right.

With the abolition of Apartheid comes the increase in government services that need to be provided. At the same time the tax revenue/land rates remain reletivly the same. Naturally funds need to be distributed differently. It's absurd to think that the same quality of government services are going to be provided for a larger population whilst the government income stream remains the same.

[Rudolph]

Driver fixes potholes himself

2010-03-11

Sonja van Buul, Beeld

Vanderbijlpark - Despite threats of arrest, a member of the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) has started fixing potholes on a road to his smallholding himself, saying they pose a danger to the lives of him and his family.

Pierre Bouwer, 54, a businessman from Vanderbijlpark and a committee member of the Vanderbijlpark NTU, started fixing potholes on the Stokkiesdraai Road, just outside the town, along with some of his workers on Wednesday.

"I'm fixing the potholes myself, because my family and I drive to and from our smallholding on this road at least seven times a day, and each time our lives are in danger."

Threatened with arrest

Mari Myburgh, chairperson of the local NTU, said she was threatened with arrest if they fix the potholes by themselves.

"Supposedly we don't have the expertise to do it alone, but Pierre has done his homework. He learned from the supplier of the material that one of the most important steps is to compact the base filler and tar," said Myburgh.

Bouwer said: "I'm not just filling the hole with soil to hide the problem.

"Rain water won't be flushing out these potholes so easily any more. I'll be giving lessons on Sunday afternoons," he joked.

He has challenged others to do the same.

- Beeld

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/752be67ef533466f832674e188cf28bc/11-03-2010-09-31/Driver_fixes_potholes_himself

[Rudolph]

So let me get this right.

With the abolition of Apartheid comes the increase in government services that need to be provided. At the same time the tax revenue/land rates remain reletivly the same. Naturally funds need to be distributed differently. It's absurd to think that the same quality of government services are going to be provided for a larger population whilst the government income stream remains the same.

Ratepayer's grievances 'valid'

2010-03-11

Lizel Steenkamp, Beeld

Cape Town - The grievances of white ratepayers who are withholding their rates in protest over poor service delivery are valid, says Yunus Carrim, deputy minister of co-operative governance.

Sicelo Shiceka (http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/user/5689), minister of co-operative governance and traditional affairs, last week accused this group of "undermining" municipalities and forming illegal "parallel governments".

"Their grievances are, indeed, valid. We respect them and we are sorry about the (poor) service delivery, but change can't happen overnight," Carrim told Beeld at Parliament on Wednesday.

Last week Shiceka threatened to take the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) to court if negotiations with them were unsuccessful. Residents of about 300 towns are withholding their rates and taxes under the leadership of the NTU.

This money is deposited into specific accounts and used to provide services independently.

Need skills and experience

Carrim on Wednesday said that Shiceka would do his best to "win over" the NTU.

"Municipalities must be sorted out, and for this we need their skills and experience."

According to him, withholding rates is a "negative reaction".

"They (council members and municipal officials) don't see the NTU as partners (as a result of this action) but as opponents."

The NTU confronted Shiceka about his statements in an open letter on Monday, and warned that violent protests about poor service delivery will "get out of hand and the government won't be able to control the situation".

Tempers flared over poor service delivery near Pretoria on Tuesday, when residents of Mamelodi-East threatened to disrupt the 2010 World Cup because they still don't have houses, electricity, running water or proper sanitation after 16 years of democracy.

In-fighting in ANC

Carrim admitted that these residents also have legitimate complaints, but added that the situation is being fuelled by "infighting" within the ANC and a battle for spots on the candidate lists for next year's municipal elections.

Vuyelwa Qinga-Vika, Shiceka's spokesperson, confirmed that the minister had received the letter from the NTU and that the task team for municipalities has been asked to facilitate an urgent meeting with the union.

Shiceka's department on Wednesday gave feedback to Parliament's standing committee on public accounts about the R1.2bn that municipalities were supposed to give back to the Treasury, because they didn't spend it during the 2008-'09 financial year.

This money was intended for infrastructure development such as water supply and roads, and the standing committee was not pleased about the underspending.

"I suppose one could say the under-spending contributed to the protests," Elroy Africa, acting director-general, admitted under pressure.


- Beeld

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/29ef18f309cf4efc858ba9e89b9c881e/11-03-2010-08-51/Ratepayers_grievances_valid


The tax base has grown by quite a lot since apartheid, with our revenue service taking in almost R600 billion last year. And each year they don't spend all their money, and 10's of municipalities don't even have one qualified engineer! If they hadn't been in such a rush to fire all the whites, things would've been okay... now let them suffer service delivery protests and public violence.

[drevil5000]

So let me get this right.

With the abolition of Apartheid comes the increase in government services that need to be provided. At the same time the tax revenue/land rates remain reletivly the same. Naturally funds need to be distributed differently. It's absurd to think that the same quality of government services are going to be provided for a larger population whilst the government income stream remains the same.

If the ANC wasn't stealing money as fast as they can then maybe you would have a point. But with so much money being wasted through corruption we have the right to complain about non-existent government services.

[Dwelm]

won best run anc municipality of 2008 or 2007, now look...


THE debts crisis of the Musina municipality is likely to derail its plans for service delivery for the next four months.
The municipality, which is financially in dire straits, has complained that its cash flow has been crippled by overpopulation.
In a desperate bid the municipality wrote to standing commitee on public accounts (Scopa), pleading with it to accept that the municipality had used its cash on programmes that were not funded.
Sowetan has been reliably informed that the municipality has received letters from the sheriff threatening to attach properties if it does not pay its dues from last year.
It also owes the department of road and transport R3million.
The municipality wanted an R18 million bail-out from the provincial treasury but the attempt failed and it has reportedly been seeking loans from service providers to pay workers

http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1121469

plans ???? service deliery ???? whats that ?

[IconOfEvi]

I wouldn't mind Saffies as neighbors. We could use em in my city (Racine, WI), but hey.

If anything, they would help people realize the ANC and most African decolonialization movements were not the glorious movements we make them out to be here.

[exT70]

So let me get this right.

With the abolition of Apartheid comes the increase in government services that need to be provided. At the same time the tax revenue/land rates remain reletivly the same. Naturally funds need to be distributed differently. It's absurd to think that the same quality of government services are going to be provided for a larger population whilst the government income stream remains the same.


In part correct. And in part successful. 50% more people today have access to safe water than had 10 years ago. Most townships (for my countrymen, there is a difference between a township and a "shanty town") have been electrified (legally and illegally). The poor has access to limited social grants, education and hospitals. Everybody is equal, are constitutionally protected and all have the right to vote.
Theoretically the larger whole is supposed to be much better off.
And, government's income stream is not the same. It has increased exponentially. Post apartheid SA has been an economical success. For most of the apartheid state's 80's SA was in a negative economic growth cycle, or a best, a holding pattern (the real reason for the end of apartheid) and something most whites conveniently seem to forget. It was not the "good old days"; we just seem to remember it that way. The fiscus today has access to funds the apartheid state could only dream about. However...

Most government departments' biggest problem today is not a lack of funds, but rather the ability to spend the available funds. And the way in which funds is spent. Most departments lack the capacity to spend, manage and police its budgets. Take your local European or so called "western/first world" town. Get rid of most of your capable local city engineers and administrators, replace them with mostly political appointees and near illiterates who have zero experience in running anything, let alone sophisticated infrastructure, and just simply does not give a sh!t, sit back and do nothing for 10 years plus, and see what happens. Strangely electricity supply is no longer available/secure, water- supply, -treatment and -waste stops working, solid waste removal ceases to operate regularly, the road and rail infrastructure gets degraded, hospitals fall apart, education becomes a joke etc etc. Now mix that with a culture of "entitlement", nepotism and corruption (amongst all race groups) and it is a wonder it took so long to come to pass...

And why do more whites not leave...
Because we have it better here than anywhere else. If you really want to leave, it is not that difficult. Millions of illegal immigrants do it every year the world over. It is however difficult to leave with my swimming-pool, two cars, maid, gardener, big house, braai, sunshine, country/golf club, rugby, loads of leave, very high standard of living, steak, easy working hours etc. in the back of a U-haul. And for what? An immigrants’ lifestyle of long hours, deprivation, starting at the bottom and sacrifice for the next generation. I have travelled to and in all of the popular SA immigration countries (OK I lie, I could not handle the Canadian winter and turned south before I got there, so I cannot count Canada) and would not want to live anywhere else. We, despite all the problems and bitching and moaning, live in an awesome country, the privilege which we don't appreciate enough. Which is why I live here and raise a family here. But it also means it is my duty to complain when things are wrong...

[drevil5000]

I agree that the great standard of living is keeping many people here.

The only issue is crime I suppose, but my complex is surrounded by a 2 meter high wall with a 1 meter high electric fence on top of it, and a couple of permanent security guards so I feel pretty safe.

I lived in London for a while and I can understand why most saffas don't stay there that long.