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Isaac Kasabian
03-11-2010, 11:57 AM
Obama Plans Imposed Solution
by Ted Belman


Obama has his hands full in the US. So-if things don't go according to [the Saudi] plan, there is always recourse to the UN. The worst case scenario.

President Obama intends to impose a solution on Israel.

During the lead up to his election victory, he surrounded himself with a host of vehemently anti-Israel advisors including Lee Hamilton, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Samantha Power, Susan Rice and Gen Jones, many of whom advocated imposing a solution on Israel..

He also made common cause with Jewish leftists represented by J Street and Israel Policy Forum who were urging him to increase the pressure on Israel and if that didn’t work, to impose a solution on Israel.


So it was no surprise that he started his term of office by attacking Israel, America’s best and most steadfast ally, declaring that all settlements were illegal and demanding a complete settlement construction freeze east of the greenline including in Jerusalem. He went so far as to repudiate the US commitment set out in the Bush letter ’04 to Sharon, declaring there was no agreement. Elliot Abrams and others involved in the negotiations which led to the letter, testified otherwise.


This letter also affirmed that “as part of a final peace settlement, Israel must have secure and recognized borders, which should emerge from negotiations between the parties in accordance with UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338.” Pres Bush had always supported a negotiated settlement and this letter did likewise. Noticeably absent was any reference to the Saudi Plan. The letter also contained a commitment, that “the United States will do its utmost to prevent any attempt by anyone to impose any other plan”.

By repudiating this letter as a U.S. commitment, Pres Obama opened the way for a settlement to be imposed according to the Saudi Plan rather than Res 242.


He set a goal of achieving an agreement in two years. One year is up, what has he accomplished? At first blush, it would appear, not much. But the reality is otherwise.


He got PM Netanyahu to agree to a two-state solution for the first time and to the terms of reference for negotiations, namely, “an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.” These terms leave very little wiggle room so it does not matter that Pres Obama agreed with PM Netanyahu’s demand that there be no pre-conditions or that negotiations not start where Ehud Olmert left off.

Noticeably absent from the terms of reference were Jerusalem and refugees, two items that could scuttle talks and probably will. Pres Obama is on record of wanting Jerusalem divided and not favoring the return of refugees to Israel

He also got Netanyahu to agree to a temporary constructions freeze, not near what he was demanding, but enough to enable him to get Abbas to agree to the proximity talks.

Since attaining these building blocks, Pres Obama’s has witnessed falling approval ratings and increasing pressure to focus on domestic issues. How will this affect the progress made?

The Arab League has given its support to “proximity talks” but only for four months. This has enabled Abbas to likewise agree. The talks therefore will start soon and end before the temporary freeze ends. But no one expects an agreement to be reached.

The U.S. managed to accomplish this by sending a document to the Palestinians responding to their enquires which provided, “We expect both parties to act seriously and in good faith. If one side, in our judgment, is not living up to our expectations, we will make our concerns clear and we will act accordingly to overcome that obstacle,”


The document also committed the US to “sharing messages between the parties and offering our own ideas and bridging proposals.” and reiterated “Our core remains a viable, independent and sovereign Palestinian State with contiguous territory that ends the occupation that began in 1967,”


This commitment by the U.S. was a determining factor in the Palestinians’ and the Arab League’s decision to agree to the U.S. proposal on indirect talks.


Both the agreed terms of reference above quoted and this document imply that Israel must return all "occupied" territories rather than some territories as was the original intention of Res 242

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One wonders why PM Netanyahu would enter fruitless negotiations that would result in Israel being blamed and ultimately dictated to. In doing so, PM Netanyahu abandoned Israel’s previous demands for direct negotiations thereby allowing the Arab League to have a say. For that matter, Abbas also abandoned a long held position that only the PA can negotiate on behalf of the Palestinians.


The Arab League has thus given Obama four months only to achieve an agreement, failing which it will take over of the process. Pres Obama is only too happy to pass the buck.


When the Arab League announced their support, their Secretary General said;
“We intend in four months time to bring back the whole of the peace process to the Security Council thus ending the role of honest broker role played so far by the US and to put an end to the peace process.

“We will put the results of the talks before the Security Council and then ask this important body in charge of maintaining peace and security to decide on the steps forward.“

This in effect would abrogate the Oslo Accords and the Roadmap which heretofore have been considered binding.

Pursuant to Article 33, of the United Nations Charter, members, Israel included, who are “parties to any dispute, the continuance of which is likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, enquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other peaceful means of their own choice” and the Security Council “shall, when it deems necessary, call upon the parties to settle their dispute by such means.”
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Israel could well be ordered to submit to arbitration or judicial settlement. Perhaps this is the reason PM Netanyahu keeps reaffirming Israel’s desire to negotiate.

The Security Council has the “primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security”. In fact, Article 37 provides, “If the Security Council deems that the continuance of the dispute is in fact likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, it shall decide whether to take action under Article 36 or to recommend such terms of settlement as it may consider appropriate.” Chapter VII gives the Security Council the right to enforce these recommendations.

You can be sure that the Arab League is well aware of these provisions. It is highly doubtful that the US will veto any such move.


The EU is already on board. European Union foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, told a British audience in London on Saturday,


“After a fixed deadline, a UN Security Council resolution should proclaim the adoption of the two-state solution,”
“It would accept the Palestinian state as a full member of the UN, and set a calendar for implementation. It would mandate the resolution of other remaining territorial disputes and legitimize the end of claims.”


“If the parties are not able to stick to it [referring to the UN-imposed timetable -ed.], then a solution backed by the international community should be put on the table.”


Solana added that the UN-imposed “two-state solution” should include resolution of issues such as control over Israel’s capital, the city of Jerusalem, as well as border definitions, security arrangements and the “right of return” by millions of foreign descendants of Arab refugees who abandoned their homes during the 1948 war..
Netanyahu will thus be faced with making the best deal he can for fear of a worse deal being imposed. He can also decide to reject the authority of the United Nations resulting in Israel’s expulsion and the imposition of serious sanctions.


Speaking of serious sanctions, it appears unlikely they will be imposed on Iran. Israel’s only option then is the military one the sooner the better.

Pres Obama may well decide to posture as Israel’s defender and save her from the worst, thereby improving his reelection chances without jeopardizing the imposed solution. For him, a win-win all around, that is, if Israel doesn’t reject it.


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Source:http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/9351

2495
03-11-2010, 12:12 PM
America’s best and most steadfast ally

I got to that bit and had to stop - breathing became erratic, eyes watering up and ribs starting to hurt like hell. America's best and steadfast allie? . . . .

seraosha
03-11-2010, 12:41 PM
I got to that bit and had to stop - breathing became erratic, eyes watering up and ribs starting to hurt like hell. America's best and steadfast allie? . . . .

In the Middle East? Yes.

In the whole world? Hmm...No, I wouldn't agree to that.

Irbis
03-11-2010, 12:47 PM
To be fair, compared to most of Middle East, even places like Venezuela or Nicaragua are best and steadfast allies of US.

Isaac Kasabian
03-11-2010, 04:25 PM
I got to that bit and had to stop - breathing became erratic, eyes watering up and ribs starting to hurt like hell. America's best and steadfast allie? . . . .

There's a better ally then Israel in the Middle East? Because it is of that particular region this subject/article.

Do not worry though it goes both ways, If Israel is a good ally only for lack of better the reverse situation applies to.

Don't get me wrong, I like the US and it's consider to have one of the best relations with Israel, but far from being that friendly.

micheal1234dd
03-11-2010, 05:01 PM
President Barack Hussein Obama was in Saudi Turkey Egypt and he couldn't visit Israel...it says a lot...

Estopped
03-11-2010, 07:01 PM
Israel will always be vulnerable to an imposed solution. As a tiny nation with a small population that is dependant on its sponsors its only real defence is to not upset its friends and hope to god that they don't change their policy.

bbsh
03-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Israel will always be vulnerable to an imposed solution. As a tiny nation with a small population that is dependant on its sponsors its only real defence is to not upset its friends and hope to god that they don't change their policy.

How? Explain..

Israel is here to stay and if you think some houses built beyond the green line is going to nullify its relationship with the US then you are really mistaken.

Imposed solution or not, no Israeli political leadership will accept turning central Israel into sderot or Jewish holy sites in jerusalem into Joseph's tomb..

GB_FXST
03-11-2010, 08:01 PM
Israel will always be vulnerable to an imposed solution. As a tiny nation with a small population that is dependant on its sponsors its only real defence is to not upset its friends and hope to god that they don't change their policy.

It happened once already and Israel survived.

I do not believe the US-Israel alliance to be as fickle as the French-Israel alliance once was.

Sootan
03-11-2010, 09:11 PM
There's a better ally then Israel in the Middle East? Because it is of that particular region this subject/article.

Do not worry though it goes both ways, If Israel is a good ally only for lack of better the reverse situation applies to.

Don't get me wrong, I like the US and it's consider to have one of the best relations with Israel, but far from being that friendly.

Saudi Arabia has been very useful to the US.....;)

budgie
03-11-2010, 09:52 PM
President Barack Hussein Obama was in Saudi Turkey Egypt and he couldn't visit Israel...it says a lot...


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94522

Thie article is pure fantasy. America cannot 'impose' a solution on Israel without Israel's cooperation.

micheal1234dd
03-11-2010, 09:58 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94522

Thie article is pure fantasy. America cannot 'impose' a solution on Israel without Israel's cooperation.
Why you quoted what i said? LOL

Hollis
03-11-2010, 10:05 PM
Why you quoted what i said? LOL

In the States, the only time a person's middle name is use (rare exceptions), is when they are in trouble and their Mommas are calling them home for a butt whopping.


One exception is with Barry. Those claiming that he a Manchurian style candidate for some secret Islamic terrorist sleeper cell, will use his middle name. Maybe do better next time.

skyeye
03-11-2010, 10:19 PM
By repudiating this letter as a U.S. commitment, Pres Obama opened the way for a settlement to be imposed according to the Saudi Plan rather than Res 242.

So far Obama hasen't been able to impose anything on anyone. As far as the Saudi Plan is concerned, that can never happen because it requires the "right of return" of millions of Palestinians, which would cause Israel to cease to exist as a Jewish state.

Sootan
03-11-2010, 11:38 PM
So far Obama hasen't been able to impose anything on anyone. As far as the Saudi Plan is concerned, that can never happen because it requires the "right of return" of millions of Palestinians, which would cause Israel to cease to exist as a Jewish state.

No ancestral rights for the Arabs, then?

micheal1234dd
03-11-2010, 11:50 PM
No ancestral rights for the Arabs, then?
They have 21-22 countries, why are you worried for them?

skyrock
03-12-2010, 12:12 AM
by Ted Belman

He went so far as to repudiate the US commitment set out in the Bush letter ’04 to Sharon, declaring there was no agreement. Elliot Abrams and others involved in the negotiations which led to the letter, testified otherwise.

This letter also affirmed that “as part of a final peace settlement, Israel must have secure and recognized borders, which should emerge from negotiations between the parties in accordance with UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338.” Pres Bush had always supported a negotiated settlement and this letter did likewise. Noticeably absent was any reference to the Saudi Plan. The letter also contained a commitment, that “the United States will do its utmost to prevent any attempt by anyone to impose any other plan”.


UNSC Resolutions 242 and 238 require Israel withdraw to the border before the Six Day War in 1967, which means Israel withdraws from Sinai peninsula (already done), Gaza Strip, West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights.

Bush supported this two resolutions, therefore supported the call for Israel withdraws from the above mentioned areas. The difference between Bush and Obama regarding the "Land for Peace" solution is how much pressure they want to put on Israel.

sgt_G
03-12-2010, 12:16 AM
They have 21-22 countries, why are you worried for them?


they have those now. There was once a time when it was only Persia and Arabia (not Saudi)

Sootan
03-12-2010, 01:38 AM
They have 21-22 countries, why are you worried for them?

So ancestral rights for the piece of land that is presently Israel is for Jews only?

GB_FXST
03-12-2010, 08:04 AM
UNSC Resolutions 242 and 238 require Israel withdraw to the border before the Six Day War in 1967, which means Israel withdraws from Sinai peninsula (already done), Gaza Strip, West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights.

Bush supported this two resolutions, therefore supported the call for Israel withdraws from the above mentioned areas. The difference between Bush and Obama regarding the "Land for Peace" solution is how much pressure they want to put on Israel.

To be clear the primciple of land for peace originates in 242. If Israel does not have peace, it has no obligation to withdraw to the green line.



So ancestral rights for the piece of land that is presently Israel is for Jews only?

This has to be considered within the context of a two state solution: Israel is for the Jews, Palestine is for Palestinians.

For peace Jews will have foregone their ancestral claims to what is now Jordan, the PA and Gaza. Palestinians will have to do the same.

Let's not forget that Jews were forcibly expelled from many Arab countries some 60 years ago. In fact, the number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries outnumber Palestinian refugess. Nonetheless, for the interest of peace, those ancestral claims to homes in Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, etc., can be forgiven too.

Isaac Kasabian
03-12-2010, 11:27 AM
So ancestral rights for the piece of land that is presently Israel is for Jews only?

Yes because there aren't Israeli Arabs, or Bedouin etc... :cantbeli:

Israel should have the sovereignty of all territory and a Jewish majority, doesn't mean other's can't live there and enjoy being equal citizens.

Mastermind
03-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Ancestral rights?For what? Palestinians? Everyone who lives in the area are Palestinians...it's Palestine...like Rocky Mountains are Rocky Mountains, or the Sahara is the Sahara. The majority of nomads who want to destroy Israel are Jordanians and even Jordan rejected them.

The situation is hopelessly mucked up by false rumors, blatant propaganda, hate filled lies....Looking across the fences, on one side I see modern progress, modern farms, industry, employment, security...on the other, I see waste, squalor, hatred, murder...and conditions so primitive a medieval peasant would want to leave. And, this is ins pite of the world (Western, not Arab) gave billion and billions to help the people in West Bank and Gaza...and all that happened was the thugs running the places stole the money and bought bombs and rockets to attack Israel.

the solution is not on the civilized side of the fence...it is totally in the squalor of the other side. Since no one is interested in helping those unfortuante people get free from the murdering thugs who enslave them...Oh, well....the situation will remain pitiful and embarrassing for the rest of the world to watch.

Beholder
03-14-2010, 03:36 AM
To be clear the primciple of land for peace originates in 242. If Israel does not have peace, it has no obligation to withdraw to the green line.
.

242 dasnt dictate to withdraw to the green line for peace.Land that Israel must give for peace not defined in 242,so subject of negotiations.At least that is israeli point of view.:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242