Something interesting about Social Security in the USA

[HK in AK]

For those of you in the USA, here is an interesting article about the fate of Social Security. We are now at the point where more in benefits will be paid out than the amount of money brought in. This trend is expected to continue from here on out. The current economy just hastened the situation to occur. Get ready for a quickening of the global financial meltdown. Over the next 3 to 5 years there will be a great turmoil, and it will get pretty nasty.

If you currently live paycheck-to-paycheck, get ready to adjust your lifestyle downward. If you own a home get ready for an erosion of value as people will no longer have the income level to pay the payments on the high value of the homes. The new taxes that are coming will drastically alter the landscape.

I do not like to copy and paste the full articles, because most are quite lengthy and can be frustrating to read through. But if you are interested, here is the link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_ious (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_ious)

[Ought Six]

They have been printing money like mad here to monetize the debt. Hyperinflation seems inevitable. When that happens, they will find ways to keep the cost of living adjustments (COLAs) in SS benefits low. That will lower the cost of the SS program at the expense of those receiving SS bennies. There is also a move to have another amnesty as part of 'immigration reform'. They are hoping that will mean more younger workers to help pay for the bloating welfare state and increased demand for benefits due to the aging demographic here. So through inflation and legalizing illegals, they hope to stave off a total collapse of the system a little longer. I personally think that is a forlorn hope, but we shall see.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Social Security is a mess for sure, but the consequences of it's financial problems don't need to be expressed in terms of Biblical-scale plagues. Fixing it could be as simple as reforming the program and slashing benefits. Something has got to give and it appears to me that a big chunk of our society is tired of footing the bill for every entitlement under the sun.

[Ought Six]

Part of the problem is generational warfare. A lot of people are going to be retiring in the next decade, and huge numbers of them just have not saved nearly enough money for retirement. Once they are staring into the financial abyss that is their future, they are going to demand more bennies. There will be a hell of a lot more older retired voters than younger working ones, so it seems pretty obvious which way things will go.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I think you're right about the generational thing. My parents qualified for SS just last year, and right now they're double-dipping (i.e. working and drawing benefits), so they've got quite a bit of money right now. IMO, baby boomers have become accustomed to the good life, and have granted themselves some very comprehensive benefits going forward. It's not going to work out. There isn't enough money. I think Congress recently formed a panel to look at slashing SS/Medicare/Medciaid benefits and all unfunded mandates. Now that push is coming to shove, maybe they'll actually do something.

There are a lot of common sense things we could do to snap the program back to reality. Contrary to the ubiquitous picture of old people eating dog food during their retirement, the old are statistically the wealthiest segment of our society. Why should the rich get any SS benefits at all? I have no idea how to ascertain and verify somebody's true net wealth, but it makes no sense to be sending Warren Buffet and Bill Gates a SS check every month. Or how about slapping a big fat tariff on every consumer item built overseas, that would go directly into SS coffers? Time to play hardball?

SS was designed to tide us over for the 2 years between the time we got too old or sick to work, and our death. It was never envisioned as a 20 or 30 year retirement vehicle. Baby Boomers are going to have to suck it up for once in their lives and take one for the team.

It's a very interesting generational/social problem, isn't it? We had a lot of people coasting along thinking we could live and do whatever we wanted and everything would be fine - if it felt good we could do it. All that change that we've gone through since the early 60's is now coming home to roost, and it's proved to be unsustainable. The generational stability we built over the previous 200 years - the way we lived, reproduced, worked etc. - before the social upheavals of the 60's would seem to be the only way we can make things work and balance the books. I don't think there's enough money in the world (heh heh, China) to keep shoring up the artificial lifestyles we prefer.

[seraosha]

ss was designed to tide us over for the 2 years between the time we got too old or sick to work, and our death. It was never envisioned as a 20 or 30 year retirement vehicle. baby boomers are going to have to suck it up for once in their lives and take one for the team.



never.happen

[vryhpyammoadded]

I have a particularly nasty opinion of all the geriatric rain drops blaming others for the flood when SS floundered under their watch especially what with a multitude of people warning them that day would come. Either they take it on the chin with a big cut in benefits or lose it completely when the kids are forced to decide between those spinning gold hubcaps, plasma TV’s and keeping the grandparents hooked to the entitlement heart lung machine.

Oh, I’m sorry. That was supposed to read “between feeding their own children keeping the grandparents hooked to the entitlement heart lung machine”. I must have been thinking of that other reality.

Anyway, the me generation was a great mentor as their kids certainly did learn well. I guess they’ll just reap what they’ve sown.

[seraosha]

I'm seriously looking to emigrate before this sh!t-storm of SS gets so bad that they take even more out of our paychecks...I know, it's dissapointing, but when the recipients of moneys outnumber those paying into the system, there are few options available...and there is no way the "gimME" generation is going to tighten the belt and suck it up with less...their main baseline is entitlement, and their blatant and unremorseful consumerism isn't going to stop until they die. And lucky Generation X and Y get to foot the bill.

[Chulo]

I'm seriously looking to emigrate before this sh!t-storm of SS gets so bad that they take even more out of our paychecks...I know, it's dissapointing, but when the recipients of moneys outnumber those paying into the system, there are few options available...and there is no way the "gimME" generation is going to tighten the belt and suck it up with less...their main baseline is entitlement, and their blatant and unremorseful consumerism isn't going to stop until they die. And lucky Generation X and Y get to foot the bill.
Go to Mexico, get citizenship, cross over into U.S illegally, get an illegal ID = PROFIT! Dont pay into taxes, get state benefits

[seraosha]

Go to Mexico, get citizenship, cross over into U.S illegally, get an illegal ID = PROFIT! Dont pay into taxes, get state benefits

Not a bad idea, but Baja crossing in TJ is kinda sketchy. I'm thinking Canada...not as good food, but a lot more polite.

[Mackie]

I'm seriously looking to emigrate before this sh!t-storm of SS gets so bad that they take even more out of our paychecks...
You're welcome ;-)

[shoora]

Go to Mexico, get citizenship, cross over into U.S illegally, get an illegal ID = PROFIT! Dont pay into taxes, get state benefits
AFAIK illegal immigrants quite often pay taxes. They just report to employers number of stolen from someone social security card.

[Kilgor]

never.happen

X2

They Grey voting block is a powerful lobby.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

The American model is completly screwed.

IMO a better system to have be a flat 10% tax on income no iffs, no buts. That monyy up retirenment is available for retirees with the government matching what the pensioner draws. BUT if people choose to take a lump sum instead of a weekly wage then they should be able to however they will only be allowed to recieve a minimum wage subsistance amount as a pension.

[Chulo]

AFAIK illegal immigrants quite often pay taxes. They just report to employers number of stolen from someone social security card.
Yea, those would be the few that actually use a SSN, and a company that "checks" the SSN. Most would not, and so paying a citizen earns less when getting paid $8 with taxes as compared to an illegal who gets paid $5 an hour no taxes.

[okiebugg]

I have a particularly nasty opinion of all the geriatric rain drops blaming others for the flood when SS floundered under their watch especially what with a multitude of people warning them that day would come. Either they take it on the chin with a big cut in benefits or lose it completely when the kids are forced to decide between those spinning gold hubcaps, plasma TV’s and keeping the grandparents hooked to the entitlement heart lung machine.

Oh, I’m sorry. That was supposed to read “between feeding their own children keeping the grandparents hooked to the entitlement heart lung machine”. I must have been thinking of that other reality.

Anyway, the me generation was a great mentor as their kids certainly did learn well. I guess they’ll just reap what they’ve sown.

"Entitlement heart-lung machine" is it? You young guys don't seem to understand that this lifeline (not entitlment, nor heart-lung machine). I draw SS, and seem entitled because I paid into this plan for more years than you have been alive. Granted the amount was not as large as the amount drawn.

I for one appreciate the fact that is in place, as without this entitlement I would live a poor life. I am forced to work, since the entitlement is a very small amount and I don't live a priveleged life. Many boomers are double dipping and triple dipping to the tune of making several thousands per month. My own dad is drawing $7000 dollars per month. His Military retirement, SS, plus his retirement from the Post Office. No way he can spend this many dollars. He puts it in the bank. my inheritance will be moot, since he fell in love with his caretakers.

Our incompetent Government has been taking $$$ from SS since time began to the amount of trillions of dollars which are added to the general funds. Social Security is in the process of demanding the debt be paid. This will never happen, as our President is printing $$$ at the rate of several millions of dollars daily which allow our congress to fund pork.

I feel for Serosha with the mentality is commonly thought of "why me" why should I fund this travesty. It will make my paycheck smaller and I will actually be burdened. He doesn't realize that my generation gave him life and supported him until he left home. I don't feel that this is a real disadvantage, and don't think that his lifestyle will change very much. No offense Serosha.

Thanks to our Political myopia and our priveleged lawmakers who can give themselves a pay raise and draw SS. This in my opinion as the travesty

[Number34]

Does america have compulsory superannuation? If not, I think this would be ONE of the answers to this problem.

[seraosha]

I feel for Serosha with the mentality is commonly thought of "why me" why should I fund this travesty. It will make my paycheck smaller and I will actually be burdened. He doesn't realize that my generation gave him life and supported him until he left home. I don't feel that this is a real disadvantage, and don't think that his lifestyle will change very much. No offense Serosha.



No offense taken, I completely agree with you...I believe that people that paid into the system deserve back what they paid, as will I when my time comes to retire...but that's not what's happening. The population that is and will be benefitting from SS is larger than the population currently paying into it...an inverted pyramid. That previous admins and our current one have been taking money out of the fund may be to blame for the increasing disparity, but at the end of the day there are more people taking more than other people are putting in.
I don't think I'll see a dime of that money taken out of my paychecks all these years...there won't be anything left for me after the locusts of the boomers have taken it all.
I'll be like that old broken down horse that dies in harness...my 401k has been assraped, the stocks lost, and SS is not going to be there.

And thats ok...in the grand scheme of things, looking back through the ages of human history, dying earlier to save my kids the horror of changing their dads diapers works for me.
But as I plan on dying on a beach in Baja with a cold corona in one hand and a hot Mexican hooker on the other, I say bring it on.

[CG51]

I agree with 2sheds on wealthy individuals not receiving. There should be an asset cap. If you have an IRA, 401k that can say be spread over 10 years to live relative comfortable life then, yeah, take on for the team and be denied SS. My mother paid into SS for all those years and because my fathers retirement she cannot receive it (she gets more from his anyways). Live within your means. I do my best on that one, no raise in four years but still put some money in the bank. I would agree to a cap in SS benefits (not 3% or more increase each year) until it can be sorted. Better than not receiving at all. I admit I will be part of the problem. Based on my retirement, I could survive but have been planing on SS to be there so I can be comfortable. I paid in all these years and now they say I may not get it. I rather get 2/3 of what my statement says each year than none at all. Now if the government will give me back what I have paid into it all these years then I will invest it and the government will not have to worry about me.

What really gets to me is that we had a surplus and Dubya walks in and starts giving out $300 checks his first few months in the office. I did absolutely nothing for the economy and it was SS funds that took the hit. That is just as crazy as Obama's bailout plan in my book.

Bottom line, I agree with others here that people my age and younger will have to get used to a lower standard of living and more taxes.

[okiebugg]

I agree with 2sheds on wealthy individuals not receiving. There should be an asset cap. If you have an IRA, 401k that can say be spread over 10 years to live relative comfortable life then, yeah, take on for the team and be denied SS. My mother paid into SS for all those years and because my fathers retirement she cannot receive it (she gets more from his anyways). Live within your means. I do my best on that one, no raise in four years but still put some money in the bank.

What really gets to me is that we had a surplus and Dubya walks in and starts giving out $300 checks his first few months in the office. I did absolutely nothing for the economy and it was SS funds that took the hit. That is just as crazy as Obama's bailout plan in my book.

Bottom line, I agree with others here that people my age and younger will have to get used to a lower standard of living and more taxes.

You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. asset cap. I live in a modest home, in a modest neighborhood. My major assets are my house, my Harley Davidson and two cars paid for. I have a neighbor who is double dipping drawing SS and his retirement. He is an attorney who has been quite succesful. My problem is he has the assets to choke King Kong. He has a motor home in which he and his wife travel several months per year. He takes two or the cruises per year. No, I am not jealous, I find a problem with him drawing a significant SS check on top of his assets and retirement. Wrong, wrong

No, I don't know what the SS system will be about when Serosha retires and it is sad because my kids will retire in the future with little or no SS available.

What disgusts me is that our Congress and the past two Presidents have squandered so much money that I predict that the USA will be soon insolvent. The Chinese already own a significant amount of investmentsin the USA including a large amount of our debt. We may be speaking mandarin sooner rather than later.

Finally, I wish you all would critize our Government for this inequity rather than us older folks.

Arm yourselves and save all that you can

[wildcat]

You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. asset cap. I live in a modest home, in a modest neighborhood. My major assets are my house, my Harley Davidson and two cars paid for. I have a neighbor who is double dipping drawing SS and his retirement. He is an attorney who has been quite succesful. My problem is he has the assets to choke King Kong. He has a motor home in which he and his wife travel several months per year. He takes two or the cruises per year. No, I am not jealous, I find a problem with him drawing a significant SS check on top of his assets and retirement. Wrong, wrong

No, I don't know what the SS system will be about when Serosha retires and it is sad because my kids will retire in the future with little or no SS available.

What disgusts me is that our Congress and the past two Presidents have squandered so much money that I predict that the USA will be soon insolvent. The Chinese already own a significant amount of investmentsin the USA including a large amount of our debt. We may be speaking mandarin sooner rather than later.

Finally, I wish you all would critize our Government for this inequity rather than us older folks.

Arm yourselves and save all that you can

I have no trouble with the double dippers, they paid into the system too, and so they live the good life I do not care. I live on SSD and VA, I am however under 65 years, disabled due to Iraq.

I am not blaming the older generations other than they who they voted for. Social Security has been in trouble for a long long time, even Bush admitted this when he ran for president, but fail to reform it. Obama seems not to care about SS right now.

With the tax rates going back to the clinton time rates, hopefully, with new jobs (like that going to happen, anytime soon), then the US should end up with more money. But the Health care system slated to start in 2013 if they get it though, I think it will sink it all.

it is our governments fault, and those that voted and allowed them to get away with it. as for those that get SS, well they paid for it, they should get it.

it time to cut the war budget and put the money back into other areas, time to start really drawing down Iraq, I think we can do it now.

[deagle]

well, now that they know what can happen, what can they do to stop it from happening ?

since its govt operated, there should be no hope.

[bababooey]

IMO, if the US cut back on war spending, close down overseas bases, slash defense spending as a whole, and create a tax system that actually makes sense, SS would be fine.

[Zoomie]

IMO, if the US cut back on war spending, close down overseas bases, slash defense spending as a whole, and create a tax system that actually makes sense, SS would be fine.
Umm. . .or we could just kill SS? Besides, you should start looking elsewhere besides the DOD to cut funding.

[CG51]

Umm. . .or we could just kill SS? Besides, you should start looking elsewhere besides the DOD to cut funding.

Kill SS? People have no choice but to pay into that fund and after all those years someone one day says sorry, the door is closed. You being in the Air Force I am sure you see huge amounts of waste. I know in the Navy, my squadron flew many hours with no real training or objective other than using all the allotted fuel so it would not lose it next budget. Just flying along the beach right here in Florida. This shows my age, but we had these pink punch cards that we used to account for man hours or we would lose personnel. The military is one of the largest make work organizations on the planet.

[Zoomie]

Kill SS? People have no choice but to pay into that fund and after all those years someone one day says sorry, the door is closed. You being in the Air Force I am sure you see huge amounts of waste. I know in the Navy, my squadron flew many hours with no real training or objective other than using all the allotted fuel so it would not lose it next budget. Just flying along the beach right here in Florida. This shows my age, but we had these pink punch cards that we used to account for man hours or we would lose personnel. The military is one of the largest make work organizations on the planet.
Well, we've been paying into that black hole for awhile now, so why not stop the bleeding now before we bleed out?

[ibstolidude]

IMO a better system to have be a flat 10% tax on income no iffs, no buts.

DAMN IT. damn it, damn it.

I found something that I can agree with Minardiau on... although the tax would have to be higher.

Or better yet, go with a flat sales tax and exlude housing (purchase or rent), medical expenses, & food. After all, I spend more now that I make more.... and nothing will encourage saving like taxing what one spends!

[ibstolidude]

I agree with 2sheds on wealthy individuals not receiving. There should be an asset cap.
How about an opt-out?

History has shown that the gov does a SHEEOT job of investing.

[CG51]

Cutting SS is out of the question. 35 million people 65 and over are on SS. I Wonder the percentage that survive on SS alone? 58 million people is the total receiving all types of SS. Now they are trying to jam health care down our throats. (new phrase I learned today, Deem and Pass). How can anyone think that things are going to get better?

Opt out and invest sounds like a good idea but how and when would it be implemented? Besides, even if the average American didn't have to pay into SS they would not invest that money. It would be spent on our national pastime, consuming. That retirement cash would be spent on spinner rims and plasma TV's.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Stoli my idea is quiet sinple.

10% of your income is taken out as tax. Deposited into a long term savings account. Once you reach a certain age you can either withdraw what was put in as a lump sum with a hefty tax on it. Or you can draw a weekly pension from it tax free based on your average wage.

If you decide to take a lump sum you are only entitled to a minimum wage pension.

If you take the weekly pension option not only is that tax free but the government will top up the weekly amount to ensure you keep a wage on a similar level to your previous employment.

Now you only can get this money once you reach 55 under normal circumstances. Between 55-65 you are taxed for early withdrawel based on a sliding scale. After 65 it's tax free.

Before the age of 55 you can withdraw up to a certain amount once you have been unemployed for more then 12 months, placed on a disability pension or used as a means as a downpayment on a house.

[skyeye]

35 million people 65 and over are on SS.

I resemble that remark. Now gimmie my damn discount.