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View Full Version : #5Jungle Carbine Is This a Fake????



Intranitu
03-15-2010, 02:36 PM
113928I am new to collecting Military Rifles, and came on this 113927Lee-Enfield Carbine for $175.00 From what little I do know about the Jungle Carbine I came to the concludtion it might be a fake, Can113926 anyone tell me what I have exactly??? One think I know to have looked for was the barrel and it is fluted under the hand guard. but 113925there is no bayonet lug, the marking are as follows: Serial number is BB6926, I was told that Jungle carbines have only one letter an113923d 4 numbers??, It is stamped with M/47C on the rist and barrel, dated 1945, and "England". the front site is marked M/47C and the fol113924lower in the magazine is marked M/8 with an arrow. So is this a real Jungle Carbine or not? the price was right reguardless I think??113923

Dark Avenger
03-15-2010, 03:22 PM
From Wiki:

Post-war non-military conversions

Though they did not invent the name, the designation "Jungle Carbine" was used by the Golden State Arms Corporation in the 1950s and 1960s to market commercially sporterised (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporterised) military surplus Lee-Enfield rifles under the "Santa Fe" brand[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-Skennerton_2007_p.380-14). Golden State Arms Co. imported huge numbers of SMLE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMLE) Mk III* and Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifles and converted them to civilian versions of the No. 5 Mk I and general sporting rifles for the hunting and recreational shooting markets in the US, marketing them as "Santa Fe Jungle Carbine" rifles and "Santa Fe Mountaineer" rifles, amongst other names.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-Skennerton_2007_p.380-14)
This has led to a lot of confusion regarding the identification of actual No. 5 Mk I "Jungle Carbine" rifles, as opposed to the post-war civilian sporting rifles marketed under the same name[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-Wilson_2006-1). The easiest way to identify a "Jungle Carbine" rifle is to look for the markings on the left hand side of the receiver; a genuine No. 5 will have "Rifle No 5 Mk I" electrostencilled there[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-15), while a post-war conversion will generally have either no markings or markings from manufacturers who did not make the No. 5 Mk I (for example, Savage or Long Branch).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-Wilson_2006-1). Santa Fe "Jungle Carbine" rifles are so marked on the barrel.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-Skennerton_2007_p.380-14)
Companies such as the Gibbs Rifle Company and Navy Arms in the U.S. have produced and sold completely re-built Enfields of all descriptions, most notably their recent "#7 Jungle Carbine" (made from Ishapore 2A1 rifles) and the "Bulldog" or "Tanker" carbine rifles, which are also fashioned original SMLE and No. 4 rifles[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#cite_note-16).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield#Rifle_No_5_Mk_I.E2.80.94The_.22Jungle_Carbine.22

speckfire
03-15-2010, 05:08 PM
For $150 and the condition that's in ..Even if its not a 100% jungle carbine its still an excellent deal.
Try this site too http://www.enfield-rifles.com/
or better yet post the pics on this site http://www.milsurps.com/

Intranitu
03-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Its there, electrostenciled into the side but Hardly able to see it, I had to use a magnifing glass to read No.5MK1, it was not until I looked that close was I able to see it. But it did not say( Rifle No.5MK1) only No.5MK1, is there a diffrence? and what about the lug for the bayonet? and do you know what the letters BB means? they are right before the serial number 6926. So with what I found, this is a real Deal? Thank you for your time and help
Semper Fi

one more thing, I suppose I killed all the vaule buy refinishing the stock? O well, it sure is pretty now!

T3ngu
03-15-2010, 06:30 PM
I have put dibs on one here that belongs to my mates stepdad. I have asked him to sell it to me when he is done with it.

They are a moderised rifle that look and handle well. The only downside to them is that they are renowned in Australia for not holding zero.

What wiki doesn't appear to say is that many militaries including Australia used modernised lee Enfields with the Australian Army getting rid of the last of theirs in the 80's IIRC.

They sell for around $800 here so $175 isn't so bad.
Comments M47C 1945 No 5 MK I Jungle Carbine

You can find them down the page on this link http://usedguns.com.au/used_military_rifles.html#military_rifles

LineDoggie
03-15-2010, 06:34 PM
Gibbs Rifle co. made them new from No.4 Actions and they tended to be better accuracy wise as they didnt have the receiver Lightening cuts= no flexing and zero stayed put.

I'll tell you right now get a replacement recoil pad. The Original is solid rubber with little give. A Repro one which absorbs recoil is available

bikewrench
03-16-2010, 04:34 AM
Should I bother with a marked 'Enfield 1918' it also says NoIII to my recollection. It is certainly sporterized but should I bother? I love me some SMLE's and this could be a great cheap pig gun/ bush rifle.

T3ngu
03-16-2010, 06:27 AM
Should I bother with a marked 'Enfield 1918' it also says NoIII to my recollection. It is certainly sporterized but should I bother? I love me some SMLE's and this could be a great cheap pig gun/ bush rifle.

If you can pick up a sporterised lee enfield cheap enough, why not. Obviously its a 1918 No1 Mk3. They sell for a minimum of $300 oz so if you can pick them up cheap enough, why not. Plus they hit hard. Downside is the price of ammo, but if you reload you are laughing.

I see you work in a gun store... nice....

Dark Avenger
03-16-2010, 07:09 AM
One more thing:

No.4 and No.5 rifle serial numbers can readily identify manufacturers. British No.4 rifles have five numbers, usually after one or two letter prefixes. The same letter prefix(es) were used by Maltby, Fazakerley & BSA Shirley, A to Z then AA, AB to AZ, then BA to BZ, CA to CZ &c. Maltby rifle serial numbers commence with a number '1', Fazakerley with a '2' and Shirley with a '3', e.g. 1xxxx for Maltby, 2xxxx for Fazakerley and for Shirley, 3xxxx, after the letter prefix. Late Shirley numbers then supposedly ran A4000 to A7999 and with PS prefixes at the very end of production. Post-war Fazakerley No.4 rifles had PF letter prefixes. The only exception to the 5-number sequence for No.4 rifles was the initial BSA Shirley production which ran from 0001 to 9999 then went with A to Z prefixes (A0001 to A9999 to the Z prefix) and some early dual letter prefixes (e.g. AT 0303), but then went over to A30001, &c. So early M47C No.4 rifle numbers could be confused with the Jungle carbine in having four rather than five numbers.
Long Branch (Canada) serial numbers incorporate an 'L' in the serial number while US Savage numbers include an 'C' in a similar relative position amongst the numbers. Both of these No.4 rifle series commenced with 0L1 and 0C1 respectively.
No.5 Jungle Carbines only have 4 numbers, the Shirley carbines have BB to C? prefixes, last production was post World War 2. The Fazakerley jungle carbines ran from FE1 to FE1000 initial production, then with no letter prefix, followed by A1 to A9999 through Z9999.

http://www.enfieldcollector.com/serials.html

Laworkerbee
03-17-2010, 03:42 AM
Why in God's name did you refinish the stock?