Leaving a man behind

[mikec62001]

One question that I would like to know the answer to is are there any situations where a man is left behind. I know the Creed for all units is to "Never leave a soldier behind" but are there any circumstances where this may not apply?

[rob]

this happend in the bravo two zero patrol in iraq 91.

[Chris1]

Its a section commanders responsibility to ensure that every man is accounted for and if not, to form a party to account for any missing or dead, AFTER the battle.
If someone is hit during a attack on a position, tuff. Take the position first then worry about it.
Take on the enemy first then worry about it.
If something has gone **** up and you need to leave but one man is missing, then as a section commander you have seven other lives you are responsible for and have to make a decision.
Is it possible to go back or will doing so kill more men and put the objective (getting as many of yours out as possible) in danger?
Can other assets get to him?
Can you return with more of yours to get to him later?
Sometimes the hard truth is the answer will be no.
If he's dead, well a dead mans dead, he isn't going to get up and tell you to come back he wants to be buried in Englands green fields.

[mikec62001]

Would this apply to Special Forces units. I assume that in a small team in a hostile area with a man KIA would they have to carry the body out or would they have to leave it. Is it only the case where they don't leave a soldier behind if they are still alive??

Thanks for your comments

[Dominique]

It all depends on the situation. It's not an easy decision to make. I've been team leader in a battalion scout platoon, and I told everyone on my team what the deal was. If anything ever happened, I'd do my best to save them, but no one can I'm not asking anyone to die to recover a dead body.

While this was not a in the military, one the hardest things I've ever had to do was lock an officer (one of my personal friends) in a dinning hall full of inmates. About 20 of them started fighting, and he could not reach the door to escape. I couldn't take the chance that the fight would spread to the main yard. So I had to secure all the exits. I just had to hope he would be OK until we could get enough people together to go in a get him (he was OK, a little shook up, but OK). It was not easy to do when I could see the look on his face as I locked the door. :(

As I said, it all depends on the situation, and the individuals involved. :|

[Chris1]

Would this apply to Special Forces units. I assume that in a small team in a hostile area with a man KIA would they have to carry the body out or would they have to leave it. Is it only the case where they don't leave a soldier behind if they are still alive??

Thanks for your comments
In that situation, it would be an almost certain 'leave im' they might mark the position they left him on a map, maybe even bury him, but if they are stuck lugging a dead man back to where they came from, the enemy will catch up with them and make a few more of them dead. It would be the same if he was badly wounded. If they can't casevac him then they would have to leave him some ammunition and crack on (if you want an example I seem to remember a story about SAS leaving a wounded man behind in Borneo, shot in the legs he slotted two of the bad guys and crawled back. if I remember correctly)

On the second part, It will be prominant in the minds of those in charge that it is not a good thing to leave people behind, but you cannot risk not achieving the objectives to rescue those alive or dead. It is unfortunately not set-in-stone 'never leave anyone behind'
Again, the only way to ensure no-one is left behind is to win the battle and come back to them.

[ibstolidude]

The situation would bepend on if he was an officer or not...
if yes, then his chances of being left greatly increase especially if he is wounded, or might be wounded later, or needs to be wounded..

note - exceptions do exist!
:roll:

[boattail]

This is not a dog on any other unit...so please do not take it like that...

In the US Army Rangers (75th Ranger Regt.) we live by the Ranger Creed..(5th stan. ...I will never leave a fallen comrade, to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embares my country). We Rangers will die for this Creed and have, we would sacrafice 100 men to save 1.

I have seen other military units have the same kind of thing in their, "creed"...but sadly they do not live by it.

RTLW

[Royal]

The situation would bepend on if he was an officer or not...
if yes, then his chances of being left greatly increase especially if he is wounded, or might be wounded later, or needs to be wounded..

note - exceptions do exist!
:roll:

Hope I'm on that list! ;)

The SAS Cpl in Borneo crawled something like 6000m through primary jungle to get back into Borneo, following his second contact. He was awarded an MM and returned to full duty.

The current UKSF SOP is to blow a corpse (or abandoned vehicle) with PE and a time delayed fuse if possible.


In the US Army Rangers (75th Ranger Regt.) we live by the Ranger Creed..(5th stan. ...I will never leave a fallen comrade, to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embares my country). We Rangers will die for this Creed and have, we would sacrafice 100 men to save 1.

While I resepct this attitude, as Chris1 pointed out the UK does not subscribe to this creed. We do not believe it is worth risking a unit or part of of it for one or two men (and certainly not for a corpse). That's not to say that there are many instances of gallantry where people have risked their lives for a fallen comrade - it's simply the 'carved in stone' doctrine we don't subscribe to...

[andrew45c]

There was a program on BBC 1 a while back called; SAS are you tough enough, where members of the public have ago at SAS training, one of the instructors was ex.SAS called Barry something and he said that if the SAS where deployed on an op if one man was injured and slowing them down they would shoot him and keep going. This was done for two reasons 1. If they left him alive it would have slowed them down.
2.If they had left him behind but left also left him alive he might talk and would be tortured horribly. So in a way it is an act of mercy. Better 1 man die than them all being captured and failing the mission.

I also read somwhere that if the SAS where on a Black op and the same thing happened they would have to blow the body up with semtex so as to anyone finding not being able to identify it as British.

[ibstolidude]

how can one respond to such nonsense??

[Argyll]

Barry Davies BEM,was one of the 2 SAS operators assisting the newly Formed GSG9 at the Mog rescue!
Stoli.........he did say that,I saw the same program!! Whether he actually meant it is a different matter,this WAS civvies he was telling this to!

[duck]

How about a tight airsoft game: One of your "team guys" has just taken a hit and is lying on the ground with his AR-15 replica hanging uselessly from his hand. You know it's a long way to your SUV with the cold beer and the chicken wings and have to make a decision, quick.

PS. As for shooting injured fellow SOF team members, I saw american SOF doing it too. In "Canadian Bacon".

[Argyll]

"Leave the SOB" cause he obviously wasn't following SOP's and got himself tagged!!
All the more beer and chick wings for you!!


In all seriousness,I think that there will be different doctrine/Creeds for different Nations,and the US have always had the "Leave no man behind" philosophy,within certain units,but I guess what it all comes down to mission requirements.If you lose a man,and can succed with the mission,then perhaps that is the right thing to do,bit to lose a man,pull out of the mission because of it ,may not go down too well with the Brass.
Nobody can 2nd guess in what they'd do,until they have been in that situation,which I hope nobody here has been in,or will be in ,in the future.
I can only presume,that there will be situations where leaving a fallen comrade would be a neccessity to facilitate the the survival of the remainder of the patrol.
I can think of the incident involving members of the SAS during 91,where personal survival was the only option left,this in particular to B20,and from memory there was also another SNCO severely wounded,on another patrol,who was not expected to live from his wounds,who told the rest of the patrol to leave him,and get the hell out of dodge,rather than risk more fatalities,in the end he was captured and given medical treatment by his captors and survived!

[mikec62001]

In the TV series SAS Jungle: Are you tough enough where members of the public are put through a replica of SAS selection and training.

In the second series they were put through several exercises including a CTR and an actually hostage extraction simulation. In one of them one of the DS played wounded and the contestants had to carry him out on a stretcher. However, the situation was deliberatly changed and the DS was now dead. One of the dilemmas was do they leave him or take the body along. One of the contestants said that he heard the SAS attach explosives to the body and blow it up. THe response from the other DS staff was not pleasent. He basically said..that was a load of ****E and they never do something like that. He said they would just bury or hide his body somewhere but NEVER blow it into pieces.

[Argyll]

Thats right mike,I never caught the bit about blowing them up,but from a tactical point blowing anyhting up,when withdrawing from a hot contact would only draw attention to yourself.Most SF these days carry GPS ,and a quick burial.plot the grave,and try and recover it later if the situation allows it
As I said nobody knows how they would react if they were put in that situation,stark choices need to be made,remeber the Patrol Commander gives the orders,and has that responsibility,if he cops it then the Patrol 2i/c takes over.Soldiers follow orders,that's what they're supposed to do,thats the way it's always been and that's why they put themselves in harms way!

[duck]

Andy and Mike,

You really like blowing up people, don't you?

[Gordon]

I read about one of the missions undertaken by one of the SAS columns during GW1. They were attacking an Iraqi post, of some description, and one of the land rovers with 3 blokes in it got taken out, with the sergeant, one of the troop Sergeant Major's if i remember rightly, being wounded. One of the troopers carried him while the other gave cover, they only had an M16 and a LAW with them. They moved a fair distance but it was obvious they would all get captured if they carried on moving at the pace they were going at so the Sergeant ordered the two troopers to leave him behind. They offered to shoot him, as the story goes, but he refused and they left him with the LAW and moved off. They got away safely and joined up with another SAS column, thanks to an A10 pilot who pointed them in the right direction. The Sergeant-Major was found by the Iraqis who gave him the medical attention he needed and he was taken prisoner until the end of the war.

[Argyll]

Gordon,
I wrote

I can think of the incident involving members of the SAS during 91,where personal survival was the only option left,this in particular to B20,and from memory there was also another SNCO severely wounded,on another patrol,who was not expected to live from his wounds,who told the rest of the patrol to leave him,and get the hell out of dodge,rather than risk more fatalities,in the end he was captured and given medical treatment by his captors and survived!

:D

[mikec62001]

What are you on about duck...I think its a ****ing stupid idea to blow up your ****ing team mates. Like I said and agree with....a lot better to just bury them or just try and hide their body in a bush or something...

[Fargin]

I think cannibalism sounds more realistic than the blow up thingy.
[you may find hidden scarcasm somewhere in this post]

[ibstolidude]

I think that blowing a body into a massive pile of burnt ground, impact craters, burned and mutilatted carcass, reaking of burnt flesh ( wow what a smell that is), petin/PETN and flame would attract a whole lot less attention then say stripping a dude of anything important/identifying and burying a dude....

sure you can disenegrate a body with enough C4 - and everyone in 3 miles will hear it, and everyone in .5 miles will feel it, and the signature left would be HUGE, unless you dug a blast pit and used dirt/water/something to direct the explosion into the body...I'm NO demo expert, but... certainly if you had that kind of time just bury the damn thing, or call for a helocopter..

I picture the scenario someone above posted about not wanting to leave a trace....
I picture 2 Tangos/nasties/what have you finding well hidden, stripped dead body, and saying "someone must be out there"
then I picture the same 2 dudes finding a blown up, burnt smelly carcass and saying "damn another sheep farmer spontaneously combusted! Surely noone is out there!- even funnier when I picture tripping over the time fuse and fuse lighter that a couple of exhausted Joes left across the way.

Or some dude dies in a vehicle rollover - and off goes one of the dudes and comes back with 3 big-ass, looong, bangalore torpedoes..."Well, we don't anyone to know we were here."

[Argyll]

I seem to remember a quote from a Vietnamese General at the beggining of the war with America say something like
"When we shot the 1st American,his friend went to help him,so we shot him ,and his friend also went to help him,and we shot him too,many friends went to help that 1st American,and we shot them all......the killing of American Soldiers is easy!"
I can't remember who said it,but I also seem to recall the same words said in a Movie called "Go tell the Spartans",with Burt Lancaster I think,and the end credits said the same thing!

[Gordon]

Gordon,
I wrote ....

Sorry mate, I was in a bit of a rush and think i'm guilty of not reading all the previous posts fully ... :oops:

[ibstolidude]

there is a vast difference to using your head and not getting everyone killed because Joe got shot in the butt and is stuck behind a rock 100 meaters out in the open and blowing him up because of it...

Now I picture private snuffy turning the MK19 on the Cpl Joe cause he got shot in the arm...
"sorry Cpl, but it's SOP"...thump..thump..thump


"we'll bill you sprained your ankle our options are:
- divide up your gear/cache your crap & tab it out up the E&E corridor and call next contact time - evac you and CM.
- send you and Fred (who incidently has taken too much of liking to the smelly goat cheese) up the corridor and we CM
- divide up your gear and move out to the ORP and leave you to guard gucci gear.
- let you carry your stuff and move at a crawl speed, as you are a braggin jerk anyway and it will be humbling to your ego.
- or shoot you in the forehead and blow your body to bits so that noone knows we are here"

Bill - "We'll if you are risking the noise of blowing me up can't you just have a helo pick me up?"

"No bill, the enemy may think the explosion is from the rare, yet indigenous, polypie hydrogen cactus that is known to explode on it's own. I say we vote!"
__________________
or better?
"Ok, Bill, we are going to try and bandage you leg now."

"Hey what is up with the bandages? Since when are they in a bag marked: CHARGE ASSEMBLY M-183?"

"Hey we have always done that, Bill; you must be delirious from terminal shock!"

"From what?? no really I'm fine, I just twisted the thing, can I have some tape.
what are you doing splinting my leg? IS THAT C4?
Why is everyone getting on the other side of the berm? Hey come back" (BOOM)
_________________
Or
"here Bill, take a quick rest before we move out again."
the actors exit stage right as Bill snoozes.

15 minutes later wakes with a slight pressure on his chest:
"Hey is that another wedge of Fred's cheese" thinks our hero Bill, "those guys are too good to me" as he reaches for the "wedge of cheese" - "that's odd it's green? What's with the strings?" (BOOM) from the pdm.

[ibstolidude]

The same prinicpal that I imagine applies to pilots would apply to most common sense soldiers..."we will do all we can" that is why rescue teams - regardless of type and branch are used - to ensure that pilots and our troops know that "we will do all we can, so go do all you can" I would imagine that would be a basis for havin the Ranger Creed worded the way it is...BUT I am not a regimental ranger so CANNOT comment on the way they live this creed..

Like most men with any amount of time in the military, I too have seen all over the world, all manners of people from small teams to large groups, in very remote places and right under the flagpole...never have I seen a situation were there was not a plan in place for the contingency of a wounded or sick soldier..never have I ever concieved of a situation were SHOOTING A WOUNDED man would be an option..that is what planning is about.
One of the reasons that you hear of SOF soldiers and their isolation preparation for a mission is so that they can break down every likely, and many unlikely, possible events...wounding or injury on a mission is VERY likely..be it a ankle/leg while rucking, or vehicle rollover, or gunshot, or the a debilitating case of the ****s (you can be all tuffman, but if the water won't stay in your screwed)...

I'm not saying your right or wrong, but I will say that every soldier I know worth his salt has a tenacity to drive on, fight on, SURVIVE on that surpises all other instincts, desires and wishes....thus the discipline to do those things others will not.. the will to survive is not the desire to hide behind a rock, but the desire to take the object, keep going, not to quit...it manifests itself in a "you might get killed on this one, but I know I'm coming home" attitude.. not "hey your wounded I'm going to shoot you in the head cause we didn't think this far out; sorry"

[boattail]

If I understand these post correctly, what the majority of you are saying is:

-The mission is of greater importence then any man

-Its METT-T dependent if and when you go in to get your WIA/KIAs

In the US Military when it comes to the recovery of fallen personal there is no greater mission (except when dealing with nuclear material). That does not mean stop the mission and go get that guy...It does to an extent have to do with METT-T. Yes, that might mean, "well its to hot to go in there now, we will have to try in a couple of hours", however that is very unlikely. Most units in the US Military have some sort of CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) capabilty. It is the CSARs team responsiblity to recover downed, injured or killed personal.

Ok, now the majority of you I am just going to say, dont know wtf you are talking about because you have never been in the military. And to the ones that have (most of you) dont know wtf you are talking about because you where some REMF. Now that aside this does not mean that you guys dont have some valid points. (To you grunts this does not apply)

When it comes down to rescueing your fallen, all you need, "is the guts to try" When CIA agent Michael Span was lieing dead in a prison yard, that SBS team leader didnt say, "No Fu#$ him...its not in the best interest of our mission...are team might get smoked". NO!!! he and his three other team members fought against incredible odds, just to get a mans body. A man non of them have ever met, a man that wasnt even in their military. They risked life and limb and dont forget mission to rescue one man. I am proud to say that that team leader was award the VC and will recieve the CMH. Another example I can think of...A Navy SEAL lies dead on a mountain top. A CSAR team composed of manly US Army Rangers from Bco 2/75 w/ USAF CCT/PJ package, infilled into a hot LZ. Apon landing 3 Rangers where KIA'd and a number of others wounded including the PJ. For 8 hrs these men fought and died to recover the body of one fallen. In the end three Rangers and one PJ are dead and 6 wounded all for one dead Navy SEAL??? Yes, and do you guys know why? Cause he would have done the same for us.

There are of course other tactical, moral, ethical, and politcal motivations to recovering WIA/KIAs. To me that is the most important, knowing that if I died someone would bring me home.



RLTW

[ibstolidude]

I'm just curious about your nature....was I just called a REMF for humurously disagreeing with the policies people here have stated about shooting their wounded and calling it the joke that it is?
Personally I really enjoyed my "visions" of peoples of blowing up your dead and shooting your own wounded.... :lol: ...I still start cracking up over it....
Hell, I think it should go a step further and if people fart, burp, throw up or snore in the ORP or in a hide sight/sleep sight you should drive over them...and if they should eat where you sleep (my pet peeve),or the worst - walk like 2 feet and then piss right in your sleep area, take those goofy but cool as hell nifty Rocket Propelled Grapnels (not sure of actual nonemclature - we only had them last vacation - come in a little green suitcase the size of a laptop) and tie the line around his balls while he sleeps...slap it in the end of the M4 and (pow) (zwing zzzzzzz) (ahhh!) ...or better yet shoot that damn guy that always starts lookin the minute you stop for the best spot to sleep, while everyone else is working --ohh nevermind he's in charge.

with out being a **** because I was only curious with the above...
As the military knows it is the "Medal Of Honor" but is often called the CMOH with the so named Congressional Medal Of Honor Society...and unless things have changed it cannot be awarded to none US military members. Only board question, never could forget it. Although I also head those rumblings; but "live by the gouge, die by the gouge."

[Argyll]

Boattail,
As far as I'm aware NO VC's were awarded to UK SF in Afghanistan,due to Political reasons,this also goes to the 2 SAS SNCO's who were put up for it at Tora Bora.
Can you provide some references to indicate that the VC was in fact awarded!One of the reasons that was quoted was the nature of Spec Ops,and normally acts of such Valour have to be witnessed by UK officers,and on their recommendation,the citation is submitted.
It would only seem right if all 3 of the nominees,did infact recieve the VC,as each action iteself warrented one!

Stoli,
I recall 2 incidents that members from the SBS,were put up for the MOH by the US Commander on the ground ,the incident at Jangi jail,and another where a Coy of 101st were pinned down for hors by enemy mortar fire,a patrol of SBS scaled the mountain behind the Taliban positions and eliminated the enemy!I'm sure there's a post somewhere in the forums that mentions it!

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1631&highlight=sbs

[Royal]

There have been no VC's awarded since Lt. Col H Jones & Sgt Ian MacKay of (2 & 3 Para respectively) in 1982.

To clear up the point on destruction of corpses and sensitive equipment (at least as far as the UK is concerned). Explosive destruction would be used only in the event of a contact with the enemy (and in the case of a corpse unavailabilty of CSAR). In such an event, the location is already compromised.

CSAR is a wonderfull thing, but is considerably better resourced by the US than the UK. UKSF often operate in areas well beyond the reach of CSAR (the Argentine mainland in 1982 being an example).

[andrew45c]

Thats right mike,I never caught the bit about blowing them up,but from a tactical point blowing anyhting up,when withdrawing from a hot contact would only draw attention to yourself.Most SF these days carry GPS ,and a quick burial.plot the grave,and try and recover it later if the situation allows it
As I said nobody knows how they would react if they were put in that situation,stark choices need to be made,remeber the Patrol Commander gives the orders,and has that responsibility,if he cops it then the Patrol 2i/c takes over.Soldiers follow orders,that's what they're supposed to do,thats the way it's always been and that's why they put themselves in harms way!

The blowing up bit wasnt from the SAS jungle it was from a book i read, and im not sure he meant in normal circumstances just when the SAS where on a Black Op ( operating inside a freindly country without permission).

[ibstolidude]

Let me dispell the myth, as I attempted to do before. During the purge of 1917 all non- US military memebers were stripped of their medals to include Wild Bill Cody - yeeehaw.

the IS from THE authority on the Medal Of Honor:

http://www.cmohs.org/medal/medal_faq.htm#5A

to qualify you MUST be a US military memeber.

[SABER 2-3]

As I have stood at attention , in many a formation and recited a creed that I still belive in and follow I offer this...

Yes, we will do everything that can be done to exfil a WIA. OPORDs will have a detailed explaination and some of us will be humping dead sleds. As we are not your average co-workers doing not so average office jobs we tend to develop very strong bonds that cause us to do very strong deeds. Never shall I leave a comrad to fall into the hands of the enemy. I promise that I will not leave a wounded buddy to become a POW and all of the hatefulness that comes w/ that status is the only reason why. I would never RIP knowing another was maimed or killed humping my lifeless body. I can walk in harms way (and still do) because I know that I live an honorable life and will be remembered as I should be by surviving team-mates and my widow I expect them to take care of.
The more important part of the Ranger Creed that is overlooked by many but are what it is all about:
LINE#1-Recognizing I VOLUNTEERED as a Ranger full knowing the hazards of MY chosen profession...
THE CLOSING- Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude REQUIRED to FIGHT ON to the Ranger objective; THOUGH I BE THE LONE SURVIVOR.
The mission comes first, most of the people I have served w/ belive in cremation (sp?) so I say give a fella a break when your looking for his lower body, telling him "your fine, just dont look down". Do what you would want done for you and give him the Morph. send off. Then go STOLI on the shell (thermite/WP) .
Sorry about the RANT.

[boattail]

Saber...if you are trying to say you are an Army Ranger...you miss quoted the Ranger Creed...in doing so, you have proven to me that your are just another wannabe talking ****.
Who ever the guy said that you have to be a member of the US Military to be awarded the CMOH you are correct, but you should do some more research; by special acts of the US Congress, foreign soldiers maybe be awarded the CMOH.

RLTW

[SABER 2-3]

and complete the mission,

its the end of shift for me...beating my face for that right now

[boattail]

You also miss qouted the 1st stanza you fuC8ing idiot...I still think your a wannabe piece of ****...when did you serve in RGR RGT? What Bat and Co

RLTW

[ibstolidude]

I hate to drag you into another one, but if there is evidence I am wrong I would like to see it to learn it..

For the US Army:
From chapter 3-6, Army Regulation 600-8-22 (Military Awards) dated 25 February 1995

"a. The Medal of Honor [Army], section 3741, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3741), was established by Joint Resolution of Congress, 12 July 1862 (amended by acts 9 July 1918 and 25 July 1963).

b. The Medal of Honor is awarded by the President in the name of Congress to a person who, while a member of the Armed Services, distinguishes himself or herself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life or her life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The deed performed must have been one of personal bravery or self-sacrifice so conspicuous as to clearly distinguish the individual above his comrades and must have involved risk of life. Incontestable proof of the performance of the service will be exacted and each recommendation for the award of this decoration will be considered on the standard of extraordinary merit."

And as I stated it is the Medal Of Honor as it appears in the first paragraph..The Medal is awarded "in the name of the Congress of the United States," and for this reason, it is often called the Congressional Medal of Honor. It was only on rare occasions, however, that Congress awarded special Medals of Honor.

"CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS For the Medal of Honor
TITLE 32--NATIONAL DEFENSE
CHAPTER V--DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
PART 578--DECORATIONS, MEDALS, RIBBONS, AND SIMILAR DEVICES

32CFR578.4 Medal of Honor Regulations:

Sec. 578.4 Medal of Honor.

(a) Criteria. The Medal of Honor, established by Joint Resolution of Congress, 12 July 1862 (amended by Act of 9 July 1918
and Act of 25 July 1963) is awarded in the name of Congress to a person who, while a member of the Army, distinguished
himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in
an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing
foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force
in which the United States is not a belligerent party (figure 1). The deed performed must have been one of personal bravery
or self-sacrifice so conspicuous as to clearly distinguish the individual above his comrades and must have involved risk of life.

Incontestable proof of the performance of theservice will be exacted and each recommendation for the award of this decoration
will be considered on the standard of extraordinary merit.

Eligibility is limited to members of the Army of the United States in active Federal military service."
And yes it can be awarded to members of the National Guard and Reserves that are serving on active duty (ie. called up for contingency operations, PSRC, what have you)

The Marines& Navy, coast guard and the Air Forces all read similiar but displace Army for the respective branch of service.

The only place it appears is in USC under title 10 & 14 (armed forces and coast guard) in that title no provision is made for a foreign award -

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/index.html

Help me in my research, I'm not as sharp as some of the s-1 types. I seek to improve my knowledge but it is my understanding and the understanding of the COngressional Medal Of Honor Society that the award is only given to US Armed Services members (coast guard included) - at one time it was awarded to civilians and foreigners but they have all since been revoked.

sorry I but, DO have lots of time on my hands until the 15th :oops:

[Argyll]

Boattail,and you are what?Are you in the Military,that you can pass judgement,enlighten us with your wealth of experience,and service history
You have provided inaccuracies yourself,and did not back them up with facts.
You have become abusive,and have shown your true colours!!
Prove your not a wannabe

[boattail]

I understand what the law says, but again if you would have read my post and did some research...you would unerstand what a Special Act of Congress is:

(IE. Its is against federal law for the military to be used for operatoins within the US, but with a Special Act of Congress the President by virtue of appointment can deploy the Military to operate inside the US; if there is a clear and present danger to the security of the nation.)

It is an amenment to a law for a specific reason/purpose...it does not change the law. In the case of awarding the CMOH, it gives the President, by virtue of appointment powers to award the CMOH to a specfic person. Now I tried to find some kind of article about that SBS soldier to be awarded...There was a link for it right here in the forums, but it does not work. I have tried to find it else where, but I could find anything. I know that I was told and I know I also read it...but if I cant prove it...I guess it never happened.
To the guy who was questioning what and who I am...Yes, I was in the US Military (95-02 3/75 Rgr Rgt.) (going to school now) and yes, I am going back in.
I am sorry I can not find an article in refference to that SBS member... I will continue to search and if found, I will post it.

RLTW

[boattail]

Ok, here is one link I found...its a British site...here is what it said:

BRITISH SBS COMMANDO TO GET AMERICAN VC.


AMERICA IS TO AWARD THE CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL OF HONOUR EQUIVALENT TO THE
VICTORIA CROSS TO A BRITISH SPECIAL BOAT SERVICE COMMANDO WHO LED THE
RESCUE OF A CIA OFFICER FROM AN AFGHAN PRISON REVOLT.
IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME THE MEDAL HAS BEEN AWARDED TO A LIVING FOREIGNER.
THE QUEEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE PERMISSION FOR THE SBS SOLDIER TO WEAR IT.
THE SBS SENIOR NCO LED A PATROL OF HALF A DOZEN SBS COMMANDOS WHO RESCUED A
MEMBER OF THE CIA's SPECIAL ACTIVIITIES SECTION FROM THE FORT AT QALA
-I-JANGI NEAR MARZA-I-SHARIF LAST NOVEMBER. THE FORT WAS HOLDING AL-QUAEDA
TALIBAN PRISONERS, MANY OF WHOM HAD NOT BEEN SEARCHED AND WERE STILL ARMED.
AN EXCHANGE OF FIRE DEVELOPED INTO A FULL SCALE REVOLT AND TWO CIA OFFICERS
WHO HAD BEEN INTERROGATING THE PRISONERS WERE CAUGHT IN THE BATTLE.
ONE JOHNN MIKE SPANN WAS KILLED BY THE PRISONERS. THE OTHER WHO HAS BEEN
NAMED ONLY AS DAVE WAS TRAPPED INSIDE.
THE SBS PATROL WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE THE AREA WHEN THE REVOLT BROKE OUT BUT
RETURNED TO RESCUE DAVE. THE UPRISING WENT ON FOR THREE DAYSAND THE SBS
COMMANDOS REMAINED THROUGHOUT, BRINGING DOWN AERIAL FIRE TO QUELL THE REVOLT.

MEDAL 0F HONOR
In a quiet ceremony in Poole a R.M. Sgt. was presented with the U.S. Medal of Honor the first time it has been awarded to a living foreigner for usual security reasons no name was released


The link is below read for yourself

http://oberon.ark.com/~getsumin/id19.htm

RLTW

[SHOOTERB]

Tane Angle if you dont mind me asking what unit were you in durring the Viet Nam war?

[boattail]

Why are you getting so hostile...again, you really need to read the post before shooting your mouth off. I never said that you claimed to be anything.
If you are aware of Special Acts of Congress then what is the problem??? Are you looking for federal documentation to support that Brit being awarded the CMOH? Cause I dont have it (I was told and read that it happened over a year ago) Congratulations, you won!!! Now go serve your country!

RLTW

[mikec62001]

WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK ABOUT THIS


QUOTE SEPT 18
It has been announced that the MOD is to seperate the SBS into a Naval Special Forces Unit
This means that after the present serving Royal Marines are retired or transferred the Navy will recruit into that Unit from serving Navy ratings as does the SAS from the Army and without the present requirement of 3 years served as a Commando the Naval version will lower the SBS standards downward to that of the SAS.

Is this saying that the SBS will now recruit from all areas of the Navy instead of ONLY from the Royal Marines??

[SABER 2-3]

F*ck You Slicky boy. HHC (S-2 sect.) 3rd Bn, 75th Rgr Rgt. (pre-Boattail; post-roundball). I'll be sure to enroll into the 1st avail. college class to avoid any more negligence in my para-phrasing and proof reading. You should fit right into the O-1 club. RLTW Sir!!! /// Nothing follows.

[Royal]

WHAT DOES EVERYONE THINK ABOUT THIS


QUOTE SEPT 18
It has been announced that the MOD is to seperate the SBS into a Naval Special Forces Unit
This means that after the present serving Royal Marines are retired or transferred the Navy will recruit into that Unit from serving Navy ratings as does the SAS from the Army and without the present requirement of 3 years served as a Commando the Naval version will lower the SBS standards downward to that of the SAS.

Is this saying that the SBS will now recruit from all areas of the Navy instead of ONLY from the Royal Marines??

:cantbeli: How many times does this come out. The joint SF selection means (and has meant since 1997/8) that any succesfull candidate from any of the three services can join the SAS, or can undertake the SBS pre-select.

UK SF already come under a unified command (DSF).

Finally, the SBS has always recruited from the RN. Many RN rates have and continue to undertake the All Arms Commando Course, as do many Army personell (and even the odd RAF guy). The only thing that has changed with joint SF selection is the requirement for RN rates to undertake the All Arms Course.